So long, F-22
posted at 3:36 pm on April 22, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
The high-level campaign to save the F-22 as a production system has likely come to an end. Lockheed Martin, the program’s prime contractor, announced that they would cease all lobbying activity after Defense Secretary Robert Gates scratched the Raptor in a series of cost-cutting moves at the Pentagon. That leaves 95,000 jobs at risk:
Lockheed Martin will not spend any more time and effort trying to overturn Defense Secretary Robert Gates’ decision to halt production of F-22 Raptor fighter jets, a top company official said Tuesday.
After making a vigorous case for the F-22 with Gates, other senior Pentagon officials and Congress in recent months, Lockheed plans to move on and meet its commitments for other major defense programs such as the F-35 joint strike fighter. …
Lockheed had lobbied the Pentagon and Congress for months to counter public statements by Gates and former Deputy Secretary of Defense Gordon England that the Air Force did not need to buy more F-22s after pending orders for 187 planes are filled.
The company even bought ads in Washington newspapers and on bus-stop benches extolling the F-22’s virtues.
Lockheed instead will focus on accelerating deliveries of the F-35 Lightning II fighter, which Gates chose as priority over the F-22. They want to push the schedule so that they can make up the difference in revenue quickly, as the lack of sales would likely force layoffs rather than transfers to the new program. They scheduled F-35 deliveries originally to begin in 2010 and to meet operational levels in 2012, but with the extra labor and narrower focus, perhaps Lockheed can move those dates up a bit.
The withdrawal will likely close a minor debate point from President Obama’s critics, who looked at the scale of government stimulus spending in other sectors and wondered why the F-22 wouldn’t make a good subject for job preservation. The entire production chain employed 95,000 people by its advocates’ estimates, and the price of delivering the remaining Raptors would have been dwarfed by the rest of Porkulus. With Lockheed conceding the point, the question is now moot.
Blowback
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And in many cases the war toys negate the need for ground troops.
Wade on April 22, 2009 at 5:26 PM
How so?…unless you are talking nukes, and even then some poor Grunt is going to have to go do clean up.
Old Hippie Vet on April 22, 2009 at 5:51 PM
_____________________________________________________
keyboard is on it’s monthly………..either that or it’s the beer I blew out of my nose while reading some of the comments over at Ace’s.
Old Hippie Vet on April 22, 2009 at 5:58 PM
Thank God I am not alone, welcome to the revolution Foxone.
LOL
Old Hippie Vet on April 22, 2009 at 6:00 PM
Every dollar saved on F-22 purchases will be spent many times over on projects that have nothing to do with national defense, but are mostly designed to line the pockets and approval ratings of members of government officials and staff, their families and supporters.
Loxodonta on April 22, 2009 at 6:01 PM
True dat! Pretty a wash between the money saved by cutting the F-22 and the amount handed out to ACORN (and not including the money ACORN stands to make as a “partner” with the 2010 US Census).
You did know that ACORN is going to be helping with the Census, right?
AW1 Tim on April 22, 2009 at 6:05 PM
Beaucoup de rires!
Loxodonta on April 22, 2009 at 6:06 PM
Think of how many windmills, that can be built after the F-22 is cancelled. Don Qiuxote would be proud.
Johan Klaus on April 22, 2009 at 6:09 PM
***
President Obama (PBUH) has enough money to give $900 million to Israel and our HAMAS enemies. But not enough to give us an ACE IN THE HOLE aircraft that we may need against the Russian or Chinese military in the future.
***
Who needs weapons when APPEASEMENT AND PRE-EMPTIVE SURRENDER are the new U.S.S.A.’s defense policy?
***
Young people better HOPE the draft never comes back to use them as CANNON FODDER when the Messiah’s gutting of our military brings on the next war. And they should CHANGE their addresses and / or countries of residence.
***
John Bibb
***
rocketman on April 22, 2009 at 6:09 PM
When I was on a B-52 crew, we considered the B-52 to be a target.- Johan Klaus on April 22, 2009 at 5:46 PM
When was that? There are no plans to retire it. Unlike the B-2, the B-52 doesn’t have the delicate stealth exterior. I can’t remember the last time one was lost to enemy fire. Carrier aircraft don’t last as long as land based aircraft that have to undertake the stress of a carrier launch. The F-14 was saved by Congress several times because of the jobs that it created.
SC.Charlie on April 22, 2009 at 6:14 PM
Yes. It’s like giving Rosie Ruiz responsibility for guaranteeing the integrity of the Boston Marathon.
Loxodonta on April 22, 2009 at 6:15 PM
Your Muslim reference makes me want to take what you say very seriously…
Squid Shark on April 22, 2009 at 6:26 PM
Good One.
Pole-Cat on April 22, 2009 at 6:39 PM
President Obama (PBUH) has enough money to give $900 million to Israel and our HAMAS enemies. But not enough to give us an ACE IN THE HOLE aircraft that we may need against the Russian or Chinese military in the future. – rocketman on April 22, 2009 at 6:09 PM
I don’t like a dime going to HAMAS, but the F-22 cost is $352 million per aircraft.
SC.Charlie on April 22, 2009 at 6:42 PM
One of my favorite photographs is of my big brother, in his flight suit, standing in front of what was then the YF-22.
Awesome piece of machinery. Awesome men who fly them.
KelliD on April 22, 2009 at 6:48 PM
This is a sin. I talked with a friend the other night who flies F-18′s and practices dogfights with the Raptor. He says they have absolutely no chance against this plane. The F-18 is targeted and hit before the F-18 pilot can even see them coming. It’s gotten to where they tell the F-18′s where the Raptor is coming from and when, and they still have no chance. Awesome air superiority and we’re flushing it down the toilet.
jjverdi on April 22, 2009 at 6:48 PM
Airforce propaganda :)
The navy guys are just holding back, helping the blue suits feel good about themselves. If it was a serious fighter, then the F-22 would have a tailhook.
Just Sayin’…….
AW1 Tim on April 22, 2009 at 6:51 PM
Obama has risen and there is no more need for the weapons of war. It is time to turn our swords into plowshares since the world is now full of peace and harmony…
Now that the Iranians have publicly stated at the UN Conference on Race that they will unite with the Jews and Israel for a more lasting peace…
Now that the nations of Central and Latin America have banded together and forgiven the US for its past transgressions…
Now that the North Koreans have turned their nuclear programs resources towards growing food for it’s population…
Wait…what?
catmman on April 22, 2009 at 6:53 PM
LOL
You KIDS are killin me.
Old Hippie Vet on April 22, 2009 at 6:57 PM
This is opposed to defense spending lining the pockets of no-bid corporate cronies who then in turn make large campaign contributions.
maleman on April 22, 2009 at 6:59 PM
LOL
You KIDS are killin me.
Old Hippie Vet on April 22, 2009 at 6:57 PM
Dude, I got into ROTC to keep outta the draft…
But, yeah.. my wife always referred to me as her “oldest child”. :)
I get to play both sides of the coin, though, because I did 3 years in the Infantry before changing clothes and flying with the Navy :)
AW1 Tim on April 22, 2009 at 7:01 PM
Went in in ’59 and was in SAC, so saw no combat, but we knew that without fighter protection and luck we were targets. We had many losses due to operational failure. Believe it or not, one of our 52′s accindentally released a nuclear device through the bomb bay doors over the Pennsylvania country side.
Johan Klaus on April 22, 2009 at 7:05 PM
After 3 years without changing clothes, you must have reeked to high heaven.
Loxodonta on April 22, 2009 at 7:09 PM
Well maybe its ok.
Snake Eyes just whacked StormShadow, so old Cobra Commander is running out of his heavy hitters. Ole CC cut out Maj. Bludd’s heart himself for being a “traitor”.
So maybe we won’t need the F-22 after all.
Iblis on April 22, 2009 at 7:10 PM
So you are sayin for 3 years you had your sh*t together? LOL ;-)
My Old Man was Navy mid to late 30′s & WW2. He used to tell me some great stories about his time on the Arizona before Dec. 7th. (He had just gotten out and then went back in).
Me…US Army 1970 -1971
Quang Tri, Vietnam 1971
It is all good, but you guys are cranking me up.
Old Hippie Vet on April 22, 2009 at 7:14 PM
Watch it Jr. Them could be takin as fightin words.
Old Hippie Vet on April 22, 2009 at 7:17 PM
Israel will probably get them, but they aren’t development partners. The primary sticking points is that they want to be able to integrate their own avionics, as they’ve done with previous US aircraft they’ve purchased, but the whole sensor fusion scheme and other bits of bureaucratese is making that logistically as well as politically difficult. The Israelis make outstanding avionics (and associated peripherals, like targeting pods). Of course, Obama could still screw them over completely, though I suspect Rahm Emanuel, much as I despise him for most things, probably wouldn’t take that well.
Blacklake on April 22, 2009 at 7:19 PM
Solid….
If it were a real warfighting machine, it would have a 5 inch gun, a TLAM VLS and a screw.
Just Saying…..Airdales :)
Squid Shark on April 22, 2009 at 7:20 PM
It was originally going to…and swing-wings, too, to serve as a proper replacement for the Tomcat. But the NATF portion of the ATF competition was nixed even before the YF-22/YF-23 flyoff, if I recall correctly.
Blacklake on April 22, 2009 at 7:21 PM
Dude,
There’s a “hierarchy of dirt” that comes into play after awhile. You become one with the earth, and them New-Age Gaia dirt-worshiper f*ckers ain’t got anything on an Infantryman’s worship of dirt.
:)
AW1 Tim on April 22, 2009 at 7:22 PM
15 airframes lost over Vietnam (10 shot down, 5 ditched after crew bailout over other nations en route back to base), plus 2 airframes lost in a midair collision over Vietnam (don’t know whether you’re counting strict losses to enemy fire or losses during operations overall).
Ah, the unit-price canard! I so do love shooting it down. Simply put, the plane costs $350M per – currently. This is because you’re amortizing the cost of the R&D that went into it (a fixed, large cost) across a mere 183 airframes. If you buy more airframes, the fixed cost gets distributed over more units, so the unit price drops. Considerably. Parts and labor for a (relatively) non-exotic airplane such as the Raptor are essentially nonentities when computing the unit price (there being very little “difficult” material in the design, either from a rarity standpoint like gold, or from a pain-to-work standpoint like titanium). Yes, getting those components correct in the design phase is expensive, but once the proper parts have been identified, they’re surprisingly cheap to use.
Blacksmith on April 22, 2009 at 7:24 PM
Boat People :)
AW1 Tim on April 22, 2009 at 7:24 PM
Come on guys… you’ll just have to wait for the FOB-001 – aka the One – which is right now being designed in congress with the help of knowledgeable Acorn workers and scheduled to come online right after the planners get out of their meetings and after the lunch and martini breaks – or round about the year 2020.
This remarkable airfoil will feature built in law books so the lawyers flying them remotely will be able to judge what’s fair and a legal target for the 20mm subpoenas they fire off at a rate which will astound even the most jaded mil hardware advocate.
Friendly21 on April 22, 2009 at 7:27 PM
When things get really bad, we can always count on the Ruskies to sell us some of their latest SUs. Am sure the Hindus will kick in some of their latest 5-6th gen fighters – if the One asks nicely and apologises for something to them.
Friendly21 on April 22, 2009 at 7:30 PM
There is a disgusting amount of misinformation and general Lockheed hate in this thread.
First, Chambliss ain’t the only senator up for re-election in an F-22 component producing state… I suggest you check to see where Dodd lives, and what is produced in his state (hint: Pratt & Whitney).
Second, the Raptor doesn’t cost us $300M+ per plane to make these days. It’s $140M nominal cost – the R&D is long done, folks.
Third, if you want to be mad at LM for giving up the lobby effort, consider this… how much political capital do you believe they (LM) have? Aren’t you familiar with the 95k job ad campaign? Liberals don’t listen… you cannot argue with them effectively for that reason. Gates must report to Obama, after all. Do you honestly think the expenditure of more political lobbying capital on this issue will change Obama/Gates mind?
Forth, the 95k jobs… are not only LM employees. They also belong to P&W, BA, NG… etc. Yes, a great number of LM employees are at final assembly in Marietta, and I hope they can retain their work.
Fifth, the JSF is not under technical risk, and it performs as promised. No, costs are not spiraling out of control. (Oh, and another thing… the Raptor is all that and more. Go to an airshow where the F-22 performs and you will understand. The super-maneuverability it claims is not a farce.)
Sixth, Israel is not ‘locked out’ of JSF purchases. They will receive their order in due time, just as will Britain and all the other countries that order JSFs and have the clearances for us to export them. And, no, the avionics don’t “suck”.
Seventh, to those who say the Raptor is a “plane without a war”… Ask yourself this question: what air superiority fighters did we have in the early 1930s? Once you examine wikipedia, ask this question: how did they compare in then high-altitude dogfights with the Luftwaffe? The country that designs planes for the future is the country that is prepared when the future happens. The P-38 and the P-51 came into USAF service after 1-Sept 1938.
knob on April 22, 2009 at 7:38 PM
Apologies: *1939… fat fingers for the loss.
knob on April 22, 2009 at 7:40 PM
That’s okay. Given my age and condition, one little shove and I’d be flat on the floor. And since I don’t normally get down there, as I can take all day to get back up, I’ve been neglecting my studies of the hierarchy of dirt.
Loxodonta on April 22, 2009 at 7:43 PM
Yep, so much for the O’bunghole admin’s lies about saving jobs. Democrats think you fight wars with tinker toys. Oh, I forgot, Democrats HATE war, UNLESS IT’S THEIR IDEA.
nelsonknows on April 22, 2009 at 7:45 PM
Wrong and wrong. The JSF is a single-seater. That makes it mission parameters very limited. A pilot and a mission specialist/weapons officer is why the F-16 is better. The JSF paradigm puts pilots at risk. Yeah, costs for the JSF ARE increasing. I see the monthly stats where I work and its obvious. As for Israel, I never said they were locked out of the purchase of the JSF. But they are locked out of the F-22. Why? So why would the U.S. allow the Israelis to purchase F-35s, assuming Israel even wants that pile of crap? What Israel is locked out of is input into the avionics, sensors and weapons systems. Israel produces much better radar, ECM, and AAMs than the U.S. or the other participating countries. But as usual, America’s best ally is screwed by the military-industrial complex.
Andy in Agoura Hills on April 22, 2009 at 7:49 PM
Hickory dickory dock, the mouse (or BHO) ran up the clock, but, the clock may soon stop ticking
foxone on April 22, 2009 at 7:56 PM
Hmmm, China has all the technical info on the F35, but not the F22… So let’s stop making the F22 and switch to the F35… Sounds like treason to me…
doriangrey on April 22, 2009 at 8:11 PM
In just the past couple of days I saw a televised report on how Chinese cyberspies have breeched firewalls of US defense contractors and downloaded performance related specs for the F-35 and elements of its flight control software.
Neither kind of data in the hands of an adversary makes me comfortable about the superiority of the F-35 in its future missions.
I also find it troubling that Gates apparently doesn’t distinguish between the F-22 and the F-35 and their disparate roles.
in_awe on April 22, 2009 at 8:18 PM
One reason we need to elect a Republican President in 2012 is to prevent further damage to the nation’s defenses.
We need the F-22. It is a fantastic plane. The F-35 is not an equivalent.
Phil Byler on April 22, 2009 at 8:26 PM
Gordon England was a prominent member of the GW Bush Pentagon staff, and he’s been trying to kill the F-22 for years.
funky chicken on April 22, 2009 at 8:32 PM
Cute. Real cute.
Way back in the long ago, a certain Hollywood “actress” made a televised speech in a foreign capital during the middle of a war as a sign of support for that country…and against her own country…and one of her comments that made it past the editors and into the world media was her decrying the American sky pirates who, as she pointed out, were flying B-52′s off American carriers in the Gulf of Tonkin to kill innocent women and children.
Don’t know why, exactly, but your “If it was a serious fighter, then the F-22 would have a tailhook.” comment just brought that old televised scene back to mind.
Peace, Love, and Brotherhood, AW1 Tim…and if’n that don’t work…BUFF’s will. :-)
coldwarrior on April 22, 2009 at 8:33 PM
The F22 can stop on a dime and give back 11 cents in change… It don’t need no stinking tailhook…
doriangrey on April 22, 2009 at 8:39 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-16_Fighting_Falcon#Specifications_.28F-16C_Block_30.29
Yes, there are some variants with 2 seats, but the F-16 is mainly a single-seat bird. (By your argument, the F-16C is thus sorely limited). More importantly, to say the F-16 is superior to the JSF because certain variants seat 2 ignores important performance characteristics like stealth, thrust, maneuverability, avionics, etc. Bear in mind, US versions of the F-16 are not even equipped with AESA radar (Block 60 is export only). Oh, and can any F-16 land vertically? No, but the JSF in STOVL can. Talk about an expansion of mission capability…
Quite simply, the F-22 is barred from export because it is so advanced that we choose not to trust our most advanced dogfighter in the hands of anyone else.
knob on April 22, 2009 at 8:55 PM
So our military didn’t get a fancy gizmo it didn’t need. Boo Hoo. Come down from your Yankee-Doodle-Dandy high horse already.
We have air power in the bag – but the same cannot be said for sea power. Forget that winged Cold-War relic, our navy needs the next generation of ships ASAP. I’d go crazy if they could build a class designed from the ground up for anti-piracy uses. Equip ‘em with HD video cameras and sell gun camera footage at cost whenever in port; explosion-junkies like me get serious eye candy and the world watches pirates get shredded in living color.
Apparently AK’s are easier to maintain/less prone to malfunction, but they do that by having loose tolerances all over the place. I gather that’s an intentional part of the design and what makes the AK so durable. But those facts in mind, I could easily see a big trade-off in accuracy.
Dark-Star on April 22, 2009 at 9:05 PM
As the mom of two aircarft enginners, all I can say is:
SIGH !! … AND …
May God continue to bless America.
pambi on April 22, 2009 at 9:12 PM
Well, go crazy.
coldwarrior on April 22, 2009 at 9:17 PM
The F-22 is not the only aircraft program that is getting the ass from the Obama administration. I was reading over at defensetech.org today about how as part of Obama’s drive to eliminate nuclear weapons the administration is looking to put the kibosh on the Next Generation Bomber program or at least delay it by a significant amount a time. The problem with this is that it could mean that the B-52 fleet will continue to be used for a much longer period of time than was originally intended.
The other thing I was reading about the other day is about how Boeing has just released a new version of the F-15 called the Stealth Eagle. This is an F-15E that has been extensively upgraded with stealth technology and enhanced avionics. The Primary market for this aircraft seems to as an export to other countries looking for a stealth fighter at a cheaper price. There is also talk that the F-15SE may be procured by the Air Force as a way to fill the gap left by the shutting down of the F-22 production lines.
Dreadnought223 on April 22, 2009 at 9:26 PM
Bite my hairy pimpled butt! Obviously you are not an American so any comment you make is of no worth whatsoever, enjoy your AK’s, the losers weapon of choice.
dmann on April 22, 2009 at 9:26 PM
Yeah, My cousin was a navigator on B-52′s during the Linebacker ops.
Jane was a real piece of work then. Still is. her daddy must’ve been so frikkin’ proud of her.
I saw some footage once that the North Vietnamese were showing in what passed for movie theaters there. they had gotten hold of some newsreel footage of B-17 raids over Germany in WWII, and were passing these off as films of US strikes against North Vietnam.
Respects, bro.. always.
AW1 Tim on April 22, 2009 at 9:27 PM
AHHHH…
B-52s way high, F-22s watch the sky, F/A 18s cover the ground, M-14 totin Jar-Heads, with Abrams back up, the enemy they pound. While we’re at war, don’t forget that offshore, there’s an Iowa Class, and the Reagan battlegroup to pummel your ass. If you think you’re that brave look under the waves, there’s an LA fast attack to seal your grave.
Kindergarten poet I am.
I would bitch about the cuts to the Defense Department, but the left can’t help it, nor can they stop.
M-14 2go on April 22, 2009 at 9:30 PM
The last I read about the LCS 2 was last year and it was in trouble. Do you have any new info?
Loxodonta on April 22, 2009 at 9:31 PM
No I agree. All good fighters can land on a bobbing, moving runway. Of course, my buddies who are picking up subs would call aircraft carriers another thing: “targets”. Cheeky b4st4rds…..
Rightwingguy on April 22, 2009 at 9:34 PM
The only 2-up mission capable F16 is the F16I (sufa), which is produced for Israel. The only 2-up F16′s in the US inventory are trainers. Modern avionics along with fire and forget weapons systems have succeeded in significantly reducing the pilots workload thus allowing a single seat strike aircraft to be increasingly capable and tolerable.
dmann on April 22, 2009 at 9:35 PM
Not to take away from your motivational (and it is) spiel there, but LA Class subs are SSBN’s (they have those oh so great Trident missiles). The Virginia and Sea Wolf classes are SSN’s (fast attacks). Both SSN’s and SSBN’s are awesome though.
Rightwingguy on April 22, 2009 at 9:37 PM
All you conservatives cry about spending money, but when Gates cut the F-22 you all cried like babies. Bottom line, all you whiners do is complain, go back to hiding under your beds, Gates and General James Jones will do all the thinking about defense. Crybabies need not apply.
athensboy on April 22, 2009 at 9:39 PM
Think you meant pilots dude, the aircraft is just a machine, can’t even roll down the taxiway without someone pushin the throttle.
dmann on April 22, 2009 at 9:39 PM
The Independence-class, LCS-2, littoral combat ship, is way behind schedule.
As Obama examines the Defense budget looking for things to toss out to pay for non-defense programs, my fear is that this gem of a task-designed ship will be relegated to a maritime museum within my lifetime.
Besides its awesome appearance, it incorporates a unique package-system that allows for weapons, personnel, electronics and other systems to be loaded in conex-like containers in the rear second deck so each mission can be assembled specific to a defined task, and easily.
coldwarrior on April 22, 2009 at 9:39 PM
Well, I meant both. You’re right, though. Unlike what some people seem to think, we still need human pilots with wings of gold. The BEST pilots though are OBVIOUSLY in the Navy. :)
Rightwingguy on April 22, 2009 at 9:41 PM
O.k. who invited THIS guy?
Rightwingguy on April 22, 2009 at 9:42 PM
ROTFLMAO…. My grandfather, a WWII Fighter Pilot and Col. in the United States Army Air Corps/United States Air force , would disagree with that suggestion. ;p
doriangrey on April 22, 2009 at 9:46 PM
Of course Obama would choose the F-35 over the F-22; wounldn’t want to deliever the JSF to China behind schedule.
JeffVader on April 22, 2009 at 9:47 PM
Rahm Emanuel is paying him to astro-turf HA…
doriangrey on April 22, 2009 at 9:47 PM
God bless your Grandfather and we’ll have to agree to disagree. :)
Rightwingguy on April 22, 2009 at 9:50 PM
nObama believes that there is nothing worth fighting for and has said as much in his first <100 days in office. Our very way of life is threatened and the sacrifices of generations of Americas best will be but a footnote in Hope & Changyville . The twisted irony is that our success in defending and promoting liberty has created this perilous naivety.
Hows that Mocha taste America?
dmann on April 22, 2009 at 9:54 PM
Sorry, son. You mean the OHIO class is SSBNs. The Los Angeles Class is an SSN. Our Trident SSBNs will remain the front line of nuclear defense-deterrence from the sea for the forseeable future. The Los Angeles class will be swiftly phased out soon as they were originally built starting in 1976. The last Improved 688 class SSN (USS COLUMBIA) was commissioned in 1997 or 1998, I believe. Even our oldest SSNs and SSBNs remain the top of the line submarines in the world today. During the Cold War, we practiced to fight two and even three Soviet submarines at once, as if they were Ten Feet Tall and Bulletproof. After the Cold War was won, and the Russians began to trade stories with us, we found out that WE were Ten Feet Tall and Bulletproof.
It remains so to this day.
And AW1 Tim, you really shouldn’t go poking these nice folks here at Hot Air so mercilessly. They don’t know you like us folks at CAPN Lex know you, son. Have a great Navy day.
Subsunk
Subsunk on April 22, 2009 at 9:57 PM
ROTFLMAO… No worries… My Step-father, who served 27 years in the United States Navy would have agreed with you. Me, I think United States Military Pilots are the best period… ;)
doriangrey on April 22, 2009 at 9:58 PM
Thanks.
Ah, yes. The new Obama doctrine: Trillions in tribute to myself, but not one cent for defense.
I recall reading that the LCS-2 was well designed for emerging threats. But I have no skills in new technology or any military hardware, so much of it went over my head.
I rely on the judgments of people with direct experience, like you with your intelligence background and those with a military background. Over the past several years, the confident patriotism of those working to protect our country has been most reassuring. Recently though, that confidence in a safer future has lessened, and I understand why. So, I rely on my faith that this period of retreat will end, as did Clinton’s and Carter’s before.
Loxodonta on April 22, 2009 at 10:01 PM
No, just giving them the money to sit on their welfare’d asses.
CHANGE!
Not.
ex-Democrat on April 22, 2009 at 10:02 PM
I stand corrected, sir. Thank you for the clarifying information.
Rightwingguy on April 22, 2009 at 10:04 PM
Haha! Agreed!
Rightwingguy on April 22, 2009 at 10:05 PM
You are quite welcome, sir. Please do carry on. Your comments are entertaining and agreeable.
Subsunk
Subsunk on April 22, 2009 at 10:07 PM
It’s unfortunate that the program will be shut down after 187 F-22′s… but keep in mind that 187 F-22′s could probably take out 800 of anything else that it’s likely to come up against in the near future.
Before long, manned fighters will probably be a thing of the past anyhow.
Hollowpoint on April 22, 2009 at 10:14 PM
I agree………….but, think that your ratio might be low. And, I think that the F-35 will extremely well.
SC.Charlie on April 22, 2009 at 10:23 PM
In our history, it always seems we weaken ourself just before we are called to action.
China and Russia are arming themselves to the teeth while we disarm.
I see this as the beginning of the big war that will make WWI and WWII look like skirmishes .
TheSitRep on April 22, 2009 at 10:25 PM
It will probably be a very short war as well. 2 billion dead in less than 48 hours.
doriangrey on April 22, 2009 at 10:28 PM
Hey, long time no see, where’ ya been?
GW
TheSitRep on April 22, 2009 at 10:35 PM
In the cotton fields everyday from sun up till sun down workin to pay Master Barak’s taxes… ;p
doriangrey on April 22, 2009 at 10:39 PM
The F35 is an extraordinary aircraft and will be unmatched in its mission envelope. That said the F35 is part of an air superiorty architecture designed around various components that excel at specific tasks. Think of any team sport that is made up of unique individual skills that combined and paired with a disciplined strategy create a winning team. Air superiority is much the same, individual platforms working in concert to execute a strategic plan.
dmann on April 22, 2009 at 10:42 PM
You’ve gamed this scenario and it is uncomprehendable. This is the very danger we face and somehow nObama thinks he can jujitsu reality into confidence it will play out. He has doubled down with our future as an over matched amateur playing the highest stakes hold’em for the first time.
dmann on April 22, 2009 at 10:58 PM
Still think that if we are going to be playing in the sandbox with China anytime soon we need to be concentrating on a 300 ship navy again.
Squid Shark on April 22, 2009 at 11:00 PM
The F-22 is a companion aircraft. Cutting it is a loss of capability for first strike, in and out, operation. nuff said. dumb idea to cut it at the present time.
johnnyU on April 22, 2009 at 11:00 PM
What the heck…they can just join the Civilian Defense Force.
Dr. ZhivBlago on April 22, 2009 at 11:15 PM
Squid Shark on April 22, 2009 at 11:00 PM
We never should have scrapped the Virgina class crusiers, a big mistake made for purely political reasons.
dmann on April 22, 2009 at 11:56 PM
We need hundreds of these planes and will not get them, but we will get a lot of pork, earmarks, and social engineering to insure politicians maintain political power..
This nation is seriously sick…God help us in the next real war.
JIMV on April 22, 2009 at 11:58 PM
Recess is over, back to class, young’un.
Johan Klaus on April 23, 2009 at 12:15 AM
The F35 is a multirole fighter which can’t hold a candle to the F22. Once the F22 production line stops, it will cost millions to get it running again. Even the parts for the F22 are made in about 30 states. What if we called it the Acorn fighter? Maybe they would fund production?
gordo on April 23, 2009 at 12:35 AM
The ACORN Fighter: Guaranteed to bring as much stability to its targeted communities as Barack Obama.
BKennedy on April 23, 2009 at 12:46 AM
We will pay for this decision with dead children. This fighter was for us, not for selling to others.
GunRunner on April 23, 2009 at 1:16 AM
Uh, spending on a good defense is just a wee little different than giving millions to ACORN and Welfare. Really, this is like fish in a barrel. AP, Ed or Michelle, can we get some smarter trolls? Aren’t we worth it?
long_cat on April 23, 2009 at 1:31 AM
You guys are acting like there won’t be any F-22 fighters. We will have 187 of them. If we need more in the future, it’s not like we couldn’t order a few.
Get a grip, people.
Big S on April 23, 2009 at 2:09 AM
C’mon man, get it straight…it’s “blackshoes”.
PBoilermaker on April 23, 2009 at 2:11 AM
Who needs air superiority when we have “smart” diplomacy?
Rollie on April 23, 2009 at 4:30 AM
Just because your aircraft is ten times as good as any other doesn´t mean that you have nine left once it has an accident, needs maintenance or is blown up on the ground.
First of all, subtracting the aircraft needed for testing, the two that have already crashed etc there will be fewer than 180 available. How many will be ready to fly at any time – 120, 140? But you will never have them in one place without longterm preparation. And will we really ever risk half of our available fighter stregth in an hypothetical conflict overseas? What if 20 are taken out by cruise or ballistic missiles on the ground – will we dare use the rest?
el gordo on April 23, 2009 at 7:28 AM
Correct on the latter, WRONG on the former.
Gone and stuck your boots in your mouth, you overgrown GI Joe.
Dark-Star on April 23, 2009 at 8:26 AM
SWEET. I only wish I could be there when the first one sets sail. (sunny Nebraska is a bit far from the nearest Navy port.)
Dark-Star on April 23, 2009 at 8:27 AM
Obama promised to gut the military and the ObamAmerican morons elected him anyway. All the hope in the world won’t defend a country from today’s high-powered thugs. We’ll all be choking on this change soon enough.
RandyChandler on April 23, 2009 at 8:36 AM
This reminds me of the attempt of some of our Congressmen to cancel an advanced project that I was working on. They felt it was too expensive, too advanced and said that we should just stop the program and ‘put the information on the shelf’ for later use if necessary.
The capability to make something like the F-22 is not in the factories or the blueprints or the assembly lines, it is in the qualified people and their hard-earned ‘tribal knowledge’. Once these experienced engineers and skilled workers are laid off and dispersed, you cannot just go back and order a few more aircraft.
Uniblogger on April 23, 2009 at 9:00 AM
So, I’m guessing you also think that if you ever have a yen for a brand new 50′s DeSoto, that you’ll be able to find it on Amazon, and even get the overnight shipping, to have it in the morning, right?
Once those lines of production are shut down, and the tooling is scrapped and the experienced workers move on to other jobs – not so much.
What a frakkin dumbass.
Wind Rider on April 23, 2009 at 9:25 AM
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