On my desk: The Late, Great State of Israel
posted at 1:15 pm on April 18, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
My friend Aaron Klein, who reports for WorldNet Daily as its Jerusalem bureau chief, has found time between his prolific updates to write a new book, The Late Great State of Israel: How Enemies Within and Without Threaten the Jewish Nation’s Survival. The pessimistic title is no mistake; Klein feels that the thrust of global diplomacy has turned against Israel, and that the election of a center-right government in his nation may not be enough to withstand the forces driving Israel into potential extinction. Aaron is best known for his one-on-one interviews with Palestinian terrorists, but thinks that Israel and its allies may be the greater danger.
I’ll try to arrange an interview with Aaron this week for the Ed Morrissey Show to discuss his book and his pessimistic predictions. In the meantime, be sure to read an analysis from the front lines of the conflict.
Blowback
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as far the jews…I’ll agree with Paul….
Romans 9:
3For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, those of my own race, 4the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. 5Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised![a] Amen.
Romans 11:15
But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles…if somehow
I might move to jealousy my fellow countrymen and save some of them. For if their
rejection be the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from
the dead.
The jews have 70 ‘weeks’ of dealings from the Lord…69 are done…and we wait for the 70th…if that ‘week’ is done, then everything should be done, and Jesus should be here…but He’s not….
right4life on April 18, 2009 at 6:57 PM
Israel is the greater danger or IN greater danger?
amkun on April 18, 2009 at 7:05 PM
Given the major ‘friend’ Israel has right now, I can understand the pessimism.
GarandFan on April 18, 2009 at 7:12 PM
I understand what you are saying. I do think that many disps subscribe to two forms of salvation, one for the church and one for Israel, however indirectly or innocently they might do so. Christ wept over His kinsmen, knowing they had killed their prophets and would reject Him as well (by God’s sovereign will) and that they would incur not too distant wrath. God did make a covenant with Abraham and his seed, but that was also a future covenant including His spiritual seed.
Flyfisher, I am more of a Piper-girl. I love MacArthur (his NASB is my bible), though, but am open to slight variations on eschatology. :o)
All of scripture points to Christ. Israel points to Christ. The wilderness wandering points to Christ. It is ALL ABOUT HIS REDEMPTION and, thankfully, we, too, have been grafted in.
Eschatology is very tricky and you should be able to admit that in fairness. What Daniel says or Jesus in the olivet discourse could be immediate future or future still or both.
Mommypundit on April 18, 2009 at 8:23 PM
.
Hannegraf has caused more division of Christians than almost any other living believer today, Mommy. He has appointed himself the be all and end all of what is blasphemy and what is not. As a result, he has written scathing diatribes against Christians who believe differently than he does. So how can you stick up for him while asking, “Can’t we all just get along?”
Finally, we are arguing prophecy on this thread primarily, not salvation. I disagree with the subsitution theology and the figurative interpretation of Scripture. And, for your information, it HAS led to anti-Semitism in parts of Christian history. But I stand with anyone who has received Christ as Savior and has a personal relationship with Him as a brother in Christ. Which views of prophecy are truth and which aren’t will be revealed not many years hence.
Christian Conservative on April 18, 2009 at 8:34 PM
Every great nation that picked on Israel went down in flames. We will not be an exception, should we persist in such foolishness.
Antisemitism is spreading fast – both in veiled hatred and ignorant outrage over supposed Jewish “war crimes”. There’s a lot of people who would gladly cut Israel off from all US aid and ‘let them sink or swim on their own for once’.
…you bunch of brainless, spineless, clueless french-defense left-wing RETARDS! The ‘Little Satan’ is only the first target of that bloodthirsty rabble who call themselves a religious group! Should Israel fall, we are next!
Dark-Star on April 18, 2009 at 8:45 PM
they won’t attack us…Obama is their friend…he’ll just bow a little lower to his new muslim masters…as he makes nice with Chavez and his new iranian friends!!
check out debka.com they know that Obama has thrown Israel under the bus, the better to bend over for Iran…we’ll see what Israel does…either way….its gonna be a WILD RIDE!!!
glad I don’t live in NYC or DC when Ahmadinjad, chavez, and the boys send a little present to their new ‘friend’ obama…
right4life on April 18, 2009 at 8:50 PM
I too love Piper, he’s had a major impact on my life (as have RC Sproul, John MacArthur, Adrian Rogers, James Montgomery Boice, Ravi Zacharias, Al Mohler, Spurgeon, D. James Kennedy, and many others. Piper played the lead role (human role that is) in my acceptance of the Doctrines of Grace. I stubbornly clung to the modified Arminianism of my youth for a long time, but Piper helped me see the glorious truth of God’s sovereign election and grace. Even so, I am not with Piper on eschatology. That said, while I know what I believe about eschatology and I know exactly why I believe it (after decades of study), I lack the hubris to be dogmatic about it. It’s a nonessential not worth dividing over. And I’m certainly not going to call those with other views anti-semitic or moronic or anything else. The planet is full of both anti-semites and morons. Ones beliefs on eschatology is certainly not determinative there. It’s simply untrue that everyone who believes in supersessionism (replacement theology) is an anti-semite, though I’m sure some who hold that view are anti-semitic.
I too believe all of Scripture is about Christ. I couldn’t agree more. The whole of Scripture points to Christ. I challenge you to follow that link I posted about and at least read or listen to MacArthur’s first sermon in his series Why Every Calvinist Should be a Premillenialist. I am unsure if I agree with every jot and tittle of his thesis, but we’re in agreement on the big picture.
flyfisher on April 18, 2009 at 8:53 PM
It appears that, based on public actions, Obama has decided to sacrifice Israel’s security. It’s a shame to see a great ally all but abandoned.
Stickeehands on April 18, 2009 at 9:17 PM
I’m with you brother.
http://actforamerica.com/
Let’s roll.
ex-Democrat on April 18, 2009 at 9:46 PM
Israel is going to have to either strike Iran alone and prevail alone in the consequences. Or it is going to a world in which Iran has nuclear weapons.
I have no advice for how to strike Iran and survive… I’m no military expert… but as to coping with a nuclear Iraq, ballistic submarines would probably be a good start. It means the enemy never knowing where your launch platform is and knowing with certainty that if it attacks it will suffer a nuclear counter attack.
Beyond that, who can say.
Karmashock on April 18, 2009 at 11:54 PM
The fact that all roads lead to Jerusalem should be proof enough of the realities of God’s promises. He promised to gather Israel again at the end of days AND He did mention that everybody was going to be against his nation. Imagine ANY other country so central in history as Israel and his chosen city Jerusalem.
It’s the size of Wales yet the center of the universe. All you agnostics just keep telling yourselves that it’s just pure coincidence and make sure you use lots of big words while you’re at it.
Mojave Mark on April 19, 2009 at 12:53 AM
Aaron Klein is a piss poor blow hard pseudo journalist – that is one thing that Debbie Schlussel and I can agree on.
Hilts on April 19, 2009 at 1:58 AM
Dear Confused Conservative,
It is YOUR view of prophecy that led to dispensationalists advising people to not oppose Hitler when he persecuted Jews. Claiming that WW II was “the time of Jacob’s trouble, and that to oppose the Nazis may be to oppose God’s plan for the Jews. Please stop projecting your proven anti-semitic view as a problem for others.
In “Armaggedon Now! – The Premillinarian Response to Russia and Israel Since 1917″, premillennialist Doug Wilson documents the historical results of premillennial views. This pdf documentation is also available in HTML format.
Also, the substitution theology you falsely accuse of antisemitism led to Jews being allowed to return to England under the Puritans and Cromwell, and forming of the first mission societies to reach Jewish people.
Finally, Jesus said He would take the kingdom away from Jewish leaders
Matthew 21:43-44 – “Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it. And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder.”
and Christ gave the kingdom to His followers:
Luke 12:31-32 – “But seek first the kingdom of God, and all these things shall be added to you. Do not fear, little flock, for it is your Father’s good pleasure to give you the kingdom.”
Right_of_Attila on April 19, 2009 at 2:46 AM
I will check that out. The teachers you referenced are who I listen to/read DAILY. The first book which opened my eyes beyond my own upbringing was Jesus Among Other Gods, by Ravi Z. It was a pivotal moment. I realized there was substance!
Then, I began delving into systematic theology and the more I studied, the more it led to the doctrines of Grace. Piper used to scare the living daylights out of me. I tend to use him as a litmus test, of sorts. :o) If I am becoming flabby, spiritually, it will make me pretty uncomfortable to listen to him or read his books. heh.
My husband and I left the church of my youth…a very large Baptist church which is basically split down the middle in both theological camps. There is palpable disunity…you can go to one classroom and someone is praising Joel Osteen and in another class you will hear Joyce Meyer, Beth Moore and yet another will advocate Wayne Grudem. It was tough. We hate the idea of church shopping, but we visited three reformed churches and settled in one. The pastor worked under John MacArthur for many years and is a friend of his…and he preaches the same. We love it and are richly blessed.
As I’ve said before, growing up in a heavy-handed Arminian, Left-Behind obsessed home, it left some scars. When I become afraid, I just focus on the name and character of Jesus Christ and his glorious return, however that may happen. If there is no rapture, and we suffer, it isn’t as if we weren’t told that we would. it is just scary to see these days…
From a purely secular standpoint, Israel is unique in that area of the world and a good for the area. Spiritually speaking, there is no doubt it is special…but I find it difficult to separate the two. :o)
Mommypundit on April 19, 2009 at 5:39 AM
FWIW..Probably one of the most fascinating, troll free threads on Hot Air I’ve read in some time.
Substance, thought and opinion without all the snark. Bravo!!
Tim Zank on April 19, 2009 at 8:36 AM
It sounds like we’ve been on the same spiritual journey. I grew up in a very Arminian and very devout Southern Baptist home. My father and grandfathers were all Southern Baptist deacons and my great-grandfather was a pastor. My mother worked for the church. And many in my extended family are in the ministry. The same goes for my wife’s family. My wife and I both earned our undergraduate degrees from a conservative Southern Baptist university and most of our longtime friends are Southern Baptist (there is a reason Tennessee is sometimes called the “Buckle of the Bible Belt”). So when I announced my flirtation with reformed theology, everyone thought I had lost it. Inititially I began studying the matter in an attempt to prove a reformed friend (a former Southern Baptist) wrong. Over the course of a year or so we had a friendly email fight. I’m an attorney, so I enjoy a good intellectual bout and if I have time to be serious about it, I am usually good at it because I know how to argue. But the more I studied, the more I began to doubt what I had always believed and been taught. My friend patiently responded to every Scriptural point I raised. Eventually I started reading Piper, Sproul, and J.I. Packer on my own. Over time I had to finally admit to one and all that I had gone over to the dark side, that I had become a five-point Calvinist.
We were longtime members of Adrian Rogers congregation (Bellevue Baptist) and I soon discovered there were many closet Calvinists running around. My wife was a Beth Moore fan who had no interest in leaving or learning about Calvinism. But after Dr. Rogers died I got her to consider other churches and we now belong to a nondenominational reformed church. Most of our staff attended conservative Presbyterian seminaries and there are many former Southern Baptists in our congregation. Amazingly enough at the age of sixty-six my father has recently admitted he too has accepted Calvinism and they are visiting our church. My mother is coming along, but we haven’t quite won her over yet.
Jesus Among Other Gods is a wonderful book. I try to read everything Ravi puts out and download his messages all the time. He led an apologetics conference in our church several years ago and it was simply terrific. Francis Schaeffer is another from the reformed camp who has really influenced me. But I’ve been reading him since college in the 80′s.
flyfisher on April 19, 2009 at 8:52 AM
It does happen from time-to-time here. That’s why I hang around like I do. :)
gryphon202 on April 19, 2009 at 9:48 AM
haha. I own everything he wrote. I think he is the single greatest influence on me in regard to evangelism/apologetics and worldview.
By God’s grace, my husband and I fell in love at Starbucks over poetry, Grudem and Schaeffer. We love to tell that story. We have led the Truth Project several times, as well, and go to apologetics conferences when we can. We enjoyed the one in Charlotte this past year. We are also going Advance ’09 in Durham. Pretty excited about that.
Mommypundit on April 19, 2009 at 10:23 AM
Israel has nukes, they’ll be fine.
True_King on April 19, 2009 at 11:19 AM
At the End Time, the primary reason the nations of the world (especially the Muslim nations under the Antichrist/Mahdi) are judged and destroyed is because they will attempt to divide the Land of Israel.
..As the Jewish people are being attacked, the Jews will cry ou tto God , as they have no one else to cry out to…
Then backing up just a bit.. the reestablishment of Israel is predicted , but also the final test to come, when the wicked rulers of Israel make their treaty to partition the Land of Israel..
Now some of the specific nations are named. They are menttioned all throughout the Old Testament. Every single counrty named in the Old TEstament is a Muslim country today. Not one country is mentioned that is not Muslim now.
The enemies of Israel will be unified under the banner of the Antichrist, who Muslims will recongize as the Mahdi.
It is through a treaty that this final division of land is accomplished
It is this treaty that will warrant God’s final punishment on Israel.. requiring it to be absolutely isolated and outnumbered in the world.
This is that covenent of death
In Islam, Muslims believe that the Mahdi makes a 7 year treaty with a jew from the priestly tribe (and breaks the treaty as all Muslims are supposed to).
And that the Mahdi is found in the Bible as the rider of the white horse in book of Revelation. (The antichrist to everyone else)
VinceP1974 on April 19, 2009 at 12:47 PM
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Well, for a contrary opinion you might read this. Is Christianity Anti-Jewish?
You do recall that all the disciples were Jewish (and of course, Jesus Himself. When Jesus told the Pharisees that he would take the kingdom from them, he was condemning their self-righteousness and rejection of God’s Son, not Israel as a whole.
If Jews are the church in the end-times why do we have both the 12 apostles and the 12 tribes of Israel.
I do not believe in Church as Israel theology, and I believe, contrary to your snark, that taking the Bible alegorically and out of context adds to confusion. But hey, Attila if you want to believe that, go for it. As my earlier comment says if you believe in Christ as Savior and Lord of your life, we are brothers whether or not you want to admit it.
Christian Conservative on April 19, 2009 at 8:06 PM
READ THE BIBLE WROTE THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO PREDICTS THE END OF THE WORLD ISRAEL WINS BIBLE SAYS IT I BELIEVE IT
wade underhile on April 19, 2009 at 10:43 PM
What does it mean to be a Jew?
That is the question
If Judaism has become a belief without a God then who will fight for it?
If Israel becomes secular at heart it will apologize itself out of existence
I cannot explain why Western secularists will promote the expansion of islam yet promote the deconstruction of a tiny Jewish homeland. Western secularists quickly shifted gears to despise fundamentalist Christianity as well
I retract. I can explain what is going on by the prophecies in the Bible. The Bible itself my be predictable if the assumptions about man’s base nature laid out in the Bible are true
It is more credible to me than the fool’s gold of the secularist leftists
Israel has lost media support in the West, and with Obama, Israel has lost respect in the White House.
Eventually some islamic nation will call them on this weakness.
Obama will not miss Israel. He spent 20 years cursing their evil and praising islam at his church
entagor on April 20, 2009 at 3:16 AM
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