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Now this has always bothered me. Can anyone please tell me the opposition’s arguments against school vouchers??

Besides the obvious NEA opposition. Or is that all there is to it?

BigWyo on April 17, 2009 at 10:29 AM

I taught in a private school and in public schools and I am a union member…my wife taught in a parochial school-so I guess I can give an informed opinion on this. Sorry, can’t provide a pithy explanation.

1. First of all, the teachers that teach in private and public are the same people. One group isn’t cloned out of a special gene pool and the other isn’t made from leftovers. They’re the same teachers.

2. A lot of it has to do with the administration. They set the climate of the school. ‘Bad teachers’ aren’t the real problem…it’s the ‘bad kids’ and the ‘bad parents’…they’re the nosiest and hold the most power.

3. Some unions are stronger than others and it depends upon the state. Paying teachers not to teach? Ridiculous of course, but that’s an extreme. We can be fired with just cause, and the union can’t interfere with that nor should it.

4. Some private schools are great. The one I taught in was mediocre and it was all about the $ with tons of hidden fees. A lot of private schools take those who have been expelled from other schools. Don’t be taken in…”private school” doesn’t mean automatically better than public school. Also, vouchers won’t cover anywhere near all the expenses, especially at a boarding school.

5. There is no accountability with private schools. They can kick a kid out at the drop of a hat…and keep the tuition. Just like in public schools, teachers are pressured to not fail ‘too many’ kids…doesn’t matter if they learned anything or not.

6. Are taxpayers OK with supporting parochial schools through vouchers? Would they be curious as to how public moneys are actually being spent in private schools? Would private schools gladly accept oversight by the state? Would private schools be OK with having to administer standardized tests and receive school grades?…most would not want that scrutiny and oversight.

Private schools are businesses…they market themselves as would any business. Private schools can accept or reject their applicants as they see fit. High-achieving students make them (the ‘good schools’) look good…low achievers are rejected. It’s all marketing and selective admissions.

7. Public schools get a bad rap because of test scores. If all the high achievers are shunted off to magnet schools, or are put into private schools by their parents, then what does that leave you?

Does the military’s special forces accept just anyone, or the best? We in the public schools have no choice…we work with what we have.

Obnoxious parents and lazy, political administrators are the biggest problems. A student can afford a few incompetent teachers. Figuring out who exactly is incompetent is difficult…probably not who you think it is.

Is it:

A. The teacher who keeps everyone happy by handing out A’s and B’s with abandon and doesn’t enforce discipline?

or is it:

B. The teacher who expects students to actually learn and to earn their grades, has high standards and enforces discipline?

Because of public perception/parents it is the A teachers above who are the least in danger of being attacked. Those are the true ‘bad teachers’ and they have been created and encouraged by the system. Has nothing to do with unions, but rather too many Americans wanting things to come easy…success conferred upon rather than earned by the individual. Are you going to complain if your kid gets a high grade…but learns nothing? Heck no.

The B teachers are a pain to administrators, students and parents, and the laziness of the student and the incompetence of the parent can more easily be justified by attacking the B teachers. Their expectations are just too ridiculous, so they must therefore be incompetent.

It is society at large that has damaged American education. Expect more from the teachers, administrators, students and their parents, and quit buying into facade of grades because they are pretty meaningless.

The Sting, starring Barack Obama

Barack Soetoro = Jimmy Carter on steroids…

Buy Danish on April 17, 2009 at 2:17 PM

I’m sure you’re right bcs there is no way he could ever make Michelle wear a burqua.

Badger40 on April 17, 2009 at 2:08 PM

I think it’s more likely that it’s a subconscious flashback to his childhood in Indonesia where he was certainly exposed to Islam, and stuff he might have picked up from his crazy Uncle Jeremiah.

I don’t think Barry is either a Muslim or a Christian. He’s a Marxist who uses religion to win the admiration of the masses.

Pamela Geller writes about the 5 Pillars reference here.

I’m sure it’s just a coincidence. Or an idea planted firmly in his subconscious.

Buy Danish on April 17, 2009 at 1:59 PM

I wonder if that’s not all that’s been planted in his “subconscious”.
I hope there isn’t anything else planted there from Islam-
like killing Jews
killing infidels
beating your wife(wives)
Establishing a world-wide Caliphate……

I’m sure it’s just a coincidence. Or an idea planted firmly in his subconscious.

Obama has learned nothing and is doomed to repeat the offenses of Carter by at least double with the vermin he has in congress.

We should pray.

getalife on April 17, 2009 at 10:36 AM

Dow Jones average has lost over 1% of its value since Dear Leader took office. ‘Nuff said.

Franklyn on April 17, 2009 at 1:26 PM

Hmmm… Never connected the dots there.
Excellent point you made.
Now I’m scared.

Obama claims to want to build his foundation on pillars, which is kids of a strange analogy when you think of it.

And he specifically mentioned ‘5 Pillars’. That has to have been a coded shout-out to the, um, multiculturals

This is abit off the subject, but I thought I would add in my two cents.
In Sunni Islam, the Five Pillars of Islam is the term given to the five duties incumbent on every Muslim. Shi’a Muslims subscribe to eight ritual practices which substantially overlap with the five Pillars.

I find it interesting that he would use the term of five pilliars in light of his recent travels at the end of his tour of Europe and his actions while there. His use the anology is a bit curious, perhaps another slip up in his relationship with a religion he denies, but honors with a bow to the Saudi king who is the keeper of the two mosques most sacred to muslims.

He further boasted of his frugality by saying that his budget would reduce domestic discretionary spending as a share of GDP to the lowest level ever recorded.

Ummmm … wouldn’t that be verrryyy close to ZERO ????

This Pres. got away with a lie a day on the campaign trail, there’s no reason in this world that he shouldn’t expect to thumb his nose at us with impunity now.

Besides the obvious NEA opposition. Or is that all there is to it?

BigWyo on April 17, 2009 at 10:29 AM

I think school vouchers are just a threat to teachers bcs most teachers suck. They are mediocre.
As a public school teacher (HS science), vouchers wouldn’t really affect me here bcs we are so small (K-12 ~215 kids).
There’s not many schools to choose from here.
But maybe this would open up parents to hire a country school teacher to teach their kids.
I would love to see that. I think when parents are able to choose where their ed $$ get spent, the competition for their business results in a better product.
Of course you still need some basic standards to go by.

Can anyone please tell me the opposition’s arguments against school vouchers??

Besides the obvious NEA opposition. Or is that all there is to it?

BigWyo on April 17, 2009 at 10:29 AM

Socialists also don’t like the idea of people being able to exercise freedom of choice. They want everybody marching in lockstep behind Dear Leader. He’ll tell you where to go and how to get there.

People who like to think and reason and make choices for themselves can be very dangerous to Dear Leader’s plans.

If you translate “The Foundation” into Arabic, don’t you get “al-Qaeda”?

The Monster on April 17, 2009 at 12:26 PM

OH CRUD!!!!

This long con will cost us trillions.

“……….. ‘ya fallow?”

Who wrote Obama’s speech anyway, Joe Biden?

Don’t forget, BHO is an accomplished plagiarist in his own right.