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DHS ignored civil-liberties lawyers’ warnings on report; Update: Senators demand data, explanation

posted at 10:56 am on April 17, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
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The DHS pushed its report out on right-wingers in one hell of a hurry, according to the AP.  Internal reviews of the document showed concerns over potential civil-liberties violations before its publication, but DHS ignored them in order to quickly make the document public.  What was the rush?

Civil liberties officials at the Homeland Security Department flagged language in a controversial report on right-wing extremists, but the agency issued the report anyway. …

Homeland Security spokeswoman Amy Kudwa said the report was issued before officials resolved problems raised by the agency’s civil rights division about analysts’ definition of right-wing extremism.

In a footnote in the report, right-wing extremism was defined as hate-motivated groups and movements, such as hatred of certain religions, racial or ethnic groups. It went on to say, “It may include groups and individuals that are dedicated to a single issue, such as opposition to abortion or immigration.”

This answers the rather absurd meme that has popped up on liberal blogs, that the Bush administration is responsible for this report.  First, while the Bush administration might have wanted an assessment of right-wing extremist threats, it didn’t necessarily want one that painted returning veterans and conservative thought on abortion, illegal immigration, and federalism as extremist threats, nor did it want a threat assessment that couldn’t find a threat and had no data on actual, specific groups.  Secondly, and most obviously, this report was dated April 7, 2009, almost 3 months after Bush left office.

Just when does the new administration take responsibility for reports they release?  2013?  For people who thought Bush was such a dunce, they seem to give him remarkable powers to control government months after he’s retired to Crawford.

Now we see that this wasn’t just left lying around from the Bush administration.  In fact, it was such a rush job that Janet Napolitano couldn’t wait to resolve the obvious civil-liberty concerns raised by her own lawyers before shoving it out the door.  Napolitano would later have to backtrack on the exact same language flagged by the attorneys by claiming that she didn’t specifically approve the report issued by her office and that she would have changed the language in hindsight.  She had the opportunity to fix it before its release, but the completely threadbare report was deemed such a high priority that it went out anyway.

Now, what could have triggered that?  Anyone know of events occurring just after April 7, 2009, that such an assessment could have painted as radical, extremist, and threats to national security?  Hmmm.

The Wall Street Journal reports that the FBI has tracked a few veterans for extremist activity, but because they joined extremist groups, not because they’re veterans:

Michael Ward, FBI deputy assistant director for counterterrorism, said in an interview Thursday that the portion of the operation focusing on the military related only to veterans who draw the attention of Defense Department officials for joining white-supremacist or other extremist groups.

“We’re not doing an investigation into the military, we’re not looking at former military members,” he said. “It would have to be something they were concerned about, or someone they’re concerned is involved” with extremist groups.

That’s the way it’s supposed to work — and that’s the way it did work in the Bush administration, whose assessment of left-wing extremists focused on groups with histories of violent actions and on actual data showing threats.

Update:  Via Michelle, Senators Coburn, Brownback, DeMint, Burr, Murkowski, Inhofe, and Vitter sent the following letter to DHS Secretary Napolitano yesterday concerning the DHS report:

April 16, 2009

The Honorable Janet Napolitano
Secretary
The Department of Homeland Security
310 7th street, S.W.
Washington, DC 20528-0150

VIA FASCMILLE

Dear Secretary Napolitano,

We write today concerning the release of the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) report titled “Rightwing Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment” prepared by the Extremism and Radicalization Branch, of the Homeland Environment Threat Analysis Division.

While we agree that we must fight extremists who are both foreign and domestic we are troubled by some of the statements your department included as fact in the report titled above, without listing any statistical data to back up such claims.

First, your report states that “Returning veterans possess combat skills and experience that are attractive to rightwing extremists…” without listing any data to support such a vile claim against our nation’s veterans.

Second, the report states that the millions of Americans who believe in the Second Amendment are a potential threat to our national security. Why? Do you have statistics to prove that law-abiding Americans who purchase a legal product are being recruited by so-called hate groups?

Thirdly, the report states that those that believe in issues such as pro-life legislation, limited government, and legal versus illegal immigration are potential terrorist threats. We can assure you that these beliefs are held by citizens of all races, party affiliation, male and female, and should not be listed as a factor in determining potential terror threats. A better word usage would be to describe them as practicing their First Amendment rights.

Also, you list those that bemoan the decline of U.S. stature and the loss of U.S. manufacturing capability to China and India as being potential rightwing extremists. We would suggest that the millions of Americans who have lost their jobs in the manufacturing industry to foreign countries are not potential terror threats, but rather honest Americans worried about feeding their families and earning a paycheck.

In closing, we support the mission of DHS in protecting our country from terror attacks and are proud of the many DHS employees who make this possible in conjunction with our state and local law enforcement. We ask that DHS not use this report as a basis to unfairly target millions of Americans because of their beliefs and the rights afforded to them in the Constitution. We also ask that you provide us with the data that support the unfair claims listed in the report titled above and to present us with the matrix system used in collecting and analyzing this data?

Finally, we look forward to your prompt reply and we offer our assistance to DHS in our shared effort to fight terrorism both home and abroad by using data that is accurate and independent of political persuasion.


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What site? I’ll tell you if I go there.

hawkdriver on April 17, 2009 at 2:02 PM

OCDO

riverrat10k on April 17, 2009 at 2:14 PM

A weapon used to kill cops over a dog pissing from a RW extremist.

getalife on April 17, 2009 at 2:11 PM

Killing Cops? What RW has killed cops?

That looney that the left leaning “Hospiatl” wouldn’t put in their mental ward because he didn’t have insurance or money? Wouldn’t that be the “lefts” fault for not accepting someone who was mentally not there to begin with? Hmmm i think you need to find me something that actually means “assault rifle”.

get, you do realize you are treading on thin ice. Right?

upinak on April 17, 2009 at 2:15 PM

Yes, “assault weapons”.

Unlike hawkdriver, I will admit a mistake.

My bad.

getalife on April 17, 2009 at 2:07 PM

Finally!!!

As far as me….I haven’t made any yet today.

hawkdriver on April 17, 2009 at 2:15 PM

What is an “Assualt Rifle”?

upinak on April 17, 2009 at 2:07 PM

A bb gun than can pop a liberal’s balloon?

DarkCurrent on April 17, 2009 at 2:16 PM

A bb gun than can pop a liberal’s balloon?

DarkCurrent on April 17, 2009 at 2:16 PM

If only it would pop their head like a zit.

upinak on April 17, 2009 at 2:17 PM

Just when does the new administration take responsibility for reports they release?

When rivers run backwards.

Hinmahtooyahlatkek on April 17, 2009 at 2:17 PM

upinak on April 17, 2009 at 2:15 PM

http://www.newsweek.com/id/193589?from=rss

Try to keep up.

getalife on April 17, 2009 at 2:18 PM

You know, you do get tiresome when you get up on your high horse.

Nobody is forcing you to stay.

MarkTheGreat on April 17, 2009 at 1:31 PM

Sorry to have offended you, but I don’t like trolls hijacking the thread…sorry you were takin in, but don’t lash out at the person who called it. Answering her is being suckered.
I enjoy reading real comments by others, I like what you and others have to post, I don’t like those being sidetracked, and this gal does it, and people fall for it. They actually think she cares what is said, and it ruins a thread.
And thanks for telling me no one is forcing me…to bad you wasted time on the obvious.
Now for the real problem…what the post is really about.
Don’t you think that the republicans should have a “counter hit team” to offset Axelrod, Carville, Begalia and others?
They have meetings to discuss who to “hit”, and then go out and make the “hit”, keeping Obama hands clean.
If we had someone like that, what Steele should be putting together, each of these “announcements” and appointments would be met with a counter…then when they fall, as they are so often doing, we already have a foundation to build on.
I.e., his “railroad” in every city…there should be right now some high profile person attacking that ridiculous proposal. Just obtaining the right of ways would be a huge government infringement, then to say they would be safe with no security shows he is living in another world. This should be hammered and ridiculed to death within 24 hours…but, only on the blogs, preaching to the choir.

right2bright on April 17, 2009 at 2:18 PM

Try to keep up.

getalife on April 17, 2009 at 2:18 PM

Newsweek?

How about you keep up and stop reading items that are not “true”. You do realize that newsweek got busted for lying on this story… Right????

upinak on April 17, 2009 at 2:19 PM

Just when does the new administration take responsibility for reports they release?

Spanish will be the official language in America long before that would ever happen.

VinyFoxy on April 17, 2009 at 2:20 PM

As far as me….I haven’t made any yet today.

hawkdriver on April 17, 2009 at 2:15 PM

Of course, you are not man enough.

BTW, these memos are only to cover their asses in case something happens like this one:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0409041pdb1.html

getalife on April 17, 2009 at 2:20 PM

It’s just losing an argument and you are very good at it.

getalife on April 17, 2009 at 1:56 PM

IWhat argument are you making? The only one I’ve seen you try to make is that Barack Obama will not ruin this country as we know it. The end to that one is yet to be determined, but as of this writing, you are losing. Badly.

baldilocks on April 17, 2009 at 2:22 PM

Just when does the new administration take responsibility for reports they release?

I will control Ukraine, both Georgia’s, Alabama and Mississippi before that would happen.

PootyPoot on April 17, 2009 at 2:22 PM

I think pretty much any he can get, but I’ll ask him. He only has about 20,000 and he’s getting panicky. LOL

ladyingray on April 17, 2009 at 2:10 PM

I’ve always used CCIs but a friend told me about a brand called MAGTECH that he used and was readily available. I ordered 10,000 small rifle and 5,000 large rifle. Even they ended up taking about three weeks.

hawkdriver on April 17, 2009 at 2:23 PM

“Give me libery or give me death.”

getalife on April 17, 2009 at 1:33 PM

In 1922, D. H. Lawrence wrote, “Men fight for liberty and win it with hard knocks. Their children, brought up easy, let it slip away again, poor fools. And their grandchildren are once more slaves.”

You are obviously a child and were brought up easy, I for one would give my life on the altar of freedom if need be to keep us from being enslaved by fascist Islam, an entity that does not recognize the word FREEDOM let alone respect it!

Liberty or Death on April 17, 2009 at 2:24 PM

upinak on April 17, 2009 at 2:17 PM

Anything that can pop a balloon or a pimple is a serious threat to getalife’s head.

DarkCurrent on April 17, 2009 at 2:24 PM

getalife on April 17, 2009 at 2:20 PM

GAL, I don’t click on your links anymore since you sent me to that left wing extremist site.

hawkdriver on April 17, 2009 at 2:25 PM

Just when does the new administration take responsibility for reports they release?

All you infidels bowing and praying to Meca 6 times a day is more likely to happen.

Aleph on April 17, 2009 at 2:25 PM

Of course, you are not man enough.

getalife on April 17, 2009 at 2:20 PM

Veterans really chap your hide don’t we?

baldilocks on April 17, 2009 at 2:26 PM

Actually, hawkdriver, maybe you should offer to take getalife up on a flight some time. Remember the cheetos…

DarkCurrent on April 17, 2009 at 2:26 PM

hawkdriver on April 17, 2009 at 2:23 PM

I’ll check it out. Midway says they are out of stock and aren’t taking backorders.

ladyingray on April 17, 2009 at 2:27 PM

Just when does the new administration take responsibility for reports they release?

My becoming allergic to Guns and Gold is a lot more likely than that ever happening.

Tuco on April 17, 2009 at 2:27 PM

Veterans really chap your hide don’t we?

baldilocks on April 17, 2009 at 2:26 PM

A nice switch and bending get over should be the start of the chapping!

upinak on April 17, 2009 at 2:28 PM

OCDO

riverrat10k on April 17, 2009 at 2:14 PM

No sorry. I do go here. This site was where I learned to reload.

SN there is hawksp.

hawkdriver on April 17, 2009 at 2:28 PM

DarkCurrent on April 17, 2009 at 2:26 PM

lol, I’ll leave the cheetos deliveries to the Chinook drivers.

(Did I tell that story on Hot Air?)

hawkdriver on April 17, 2009 at 2:30 PM

If you can find the primers….

ladyingray on April 17, 2009 at 2:03 PM
I did actually… gotta love gun shows!

upinak on April 17, 2009 at 2:05 PM

Went to one here in VA two weeks ago. Could only find 400 large rifle primes in the whole @#$% place.

And hit a few minutes on TV last night about how dangerous the moose are in winter. I would want a rocket launcher or something on my car to vaporize those dudes! Very dangerous.

They were trying to snow-cat some paths in the woods so the mmoose would not use the plowed roads as their trails.

riverrat10k on April 17, 2009 at 2:30 PM

From the update regarding the letter: The Honorable Janet Napolitano
Ha, just like Sesame Street; one of these things is not like the other….

carbon_footprint on April 17, 2009 at 2:31 PM

getalife on April 17, 2009 at 2:20 PM

It is ok young’un. Into each life a little rain must fall. After you get out of school and get a job, everything will become clearer.

Johan Klaus on April 17, 2009 at 2:32 PM

riverrat10k on April 17, 2009 at 2:30 PM

Only Mama moose are bad. Usually they are just walking around and eating… kinda like democrats!

upinak on April 17, 2009 at 2:33 PM

riverrat10k on April 17, 2009 at 2:30 PM

Mythbusters did a Moosebuster experiment about the best way to hit one with your car.

BTW, Carrie Byron. Growl!

As far as the primers brass and such…

I heard the supplies for everything are going to start returning to normal. That was before this BS DHS report though. If it is everyone buying up and hoarding, this’ll just make it worse.

hawkdriver on April 17, 2009 at 2:35 PM

OCDO

riverrat10k on April 17, 2009 at 2:14 PM
No sorry. I do go here. This site was where I learned to reload.

SN there is hawksp.

hawkdriver on April 17, 2009 at 2:28 PM

My mistake. Your style seemed similar to “Hawkflyer” on that board. Well, they say great minds do think alike.

riverrat10k on April 17, 2009 at 2:36 PM

My mistake. Your style seemed similar to “Hawkflyer” on that board. Well, they say great minds do think alike.

riverrat10k on April 17, 2009 at 2:36 P

M

I’d say by his handle he probably does the same thing for a living.

hawkdriver on April 17, 2009 at 2:37 PM

I guess what I don’t get is why this sort of report focuses on “right wing” (or “left wing” for that matter) threats instead of just domestic terrorism. Setting aside for a moment the arguments about who’s being labeled here, it seems to me that the issues that they label as “right wing” are hardly related thematically. A “illegal immigration nut” may or may not be a “pro life nut”… so what information is gained by putting them in the same “right wing” basket? Isn’t the more relevant factor that these (and “left wing”) threat vectors are domestic?

Y-not on April 17, 2009 at 2:40 PM

riverrat10k on April 17, 2009 at 2:30 PM
Only Mama moose are bad. Usually they are just walking around and eating… kinda like democrats!

upinak on April 17, 2009 at 2:33 PM

Only caught part of the show but apparently, when the snow gets deep, the moose like to travel along the roadways conflicting with motorists. Yah, moose are big, but not usually agressive. Just in the way sometimes.

riverrat10k on April 17, 2009 at 2:40 PM

riverrat10k on April 17, 2009 at 2:40 PM

That is the scarey part.

Imagine going 55 mph (as it is slickery but the speed limit is 65) just trying to get home in the dark. You see a shadow and not realize it isn’t the trees, but a moose.

Now imagine 1200 lbs of flesh and fur flying into your windshield at 55 mph. You will die!

That is the only thing scarey about moose. They aren’t like deer where their eyes reflect… they are more like cows. So you will never see them.

upinak on April 17, 2009 at 2:43 PM

Y-not on April 17, 2009 at 2:40 PM

Exactly Y-not. When we were talking to the tool GAL before she stayed acting like an idiot, that was our point. The military screens members for extremist group activities. Part of that screening is a briefing on all groups that give them pause of concern. By this administration separating them into the two distinct groups, they give the very nature of the reports a suspicious air.

hawkdriver on April 17, 2009 at 2:45 PM

damn,

she started

hawkdriver on April 17, 2009 at 2:45 PM

right2bright on April 17, 2009 at 2:18 PM

1) Unlike liberals, we can carry on more than one conversation at a time. If you want to talk about something above and beyond troll bashing, feel free to bring it up (I know you did, I will address those points in my next post.)

2) You should no better to try to tell a bunch of conservatives what they SHOULD be doing with their time.

3) I operate under a different assumption than you. That being, a study I read once that for every person who actively participates, there are 20 to 30 lurkers. People who read but never post. (Not that there is anything wrong with that.)

4) Allowing the trolls comments to lie there with out refutation has the potential of confusing new comers and lurkers. It needs to be addressed.

5) As to the back and forth with the trolls, yea it does get tiresome, but every thread eventually peters out into a round of punch and counter punch on the the same issues, even amongst us regulars. Do I need to remind you of the time that you and I have drawn each others blood? (metaphorically speaking of course.)

6) When I get tired of the troll bashing, I just start skipping over any post that starts by quoting the trolls. Not hard to do.

7) As someone else pointed out, trolls exist everywhere, we all need practice with handling them. Here amongst friends is good, safe environment for gaining such skills. We can also watch others, and learn which techniques work best for each type of troll.

MarkTheGreat on April 17, 2009 at 2:46 PM

Don’t you think that the republicans should have a “counter hit team” to offset Axelrod, Carville, Begalia and others? They have meetings to discuss who to “hit”, and then go out and make the “hit”, keeping Obama hands clean.

Now for something a little meatier:

I don’t know if this would do any good. Without active participation from the MSM, this would not work for the Republicans. Wouldn’t matter how many hit men the Republicans have, without sympathetic media coverage of the charges, the only people who will hear them will be us, the choir.

Look at this DHS report issue. Despite being all over the blogasphere, less than 10% of the population has even heard of it.
On the other hand, within days, more than half of the country had heard of the “macacca” incident.

I agree that the Republicans should at least try. Every person they can reach is one more potential Republican voter.

On the other hand, as I have complained about many times, the so called Republican “leadership” would rather be invited to the A-list parties than be effective. Heck, these guys are once again backing Specter, despite the fact that he has stabbed the party in the back time and time again.

Having been a senator for years, he’s now a member of the club. Everyone else is an outsider. It’s a natural progression for an incestous political culture like we have.

The only cure is term limits, to prevent people from becoming “insiders” in the first place.
The problem here is that the only way to get term limits in place is for the insiders to do it. In a word, fat chance.

My position is that we need to be taking notes on what hasn’t worked with our current system of govt, so that we don’t make the same mistakes next time.

MarkTheGreat on April 17, 2009 at 3:01 PM

Y-not on April 17, 2009 at 2:40 PM

Excellent point Y-not. By labelling, a wedge is driven between people. Not allowing us to unite and keeping us arguing over finer points plays into the Fed’s hand.

At the risk of offending some here on this board, I am not “born again” but feel I have basic Christian values. On some issues I am very “right”, on others, I lean a little “left” but in my mind I am only me.

I am Riverrat. Let freedom ring.

riverrat10k on April 17, 2009 at 3:03 PM

Liberty or Death on April 17, 2009 at 1:30 PM

“Give me libery or give me death.”
getalife on April 17, 2009 at 1:33 PM

Amazing. The word was right there to prompt the correct spelling and you still managed to misspell it.

carbon_footprint on April 17, 2009 at 3:12 PM

Here’s my list of what I believe to be necessary changes.

1) The constitution will list those powers that the govt is granted, that’s it. No flowery language that future generations can twist into whatever they want it to mean.
1a) No %&*0@ commerce clause.
1b) I might even go for having portions of the constitution be unchangeable by ammendment process, or make it so that more like 90% of the states, or 90% of the population has to approve the change.

2) Make the age of eligibility the same as the retirement age. I want people to have served a full career in the real world before going into politics. (When the constitution was written, 40 was a ripe old age, not everyone made it that far.)

3) No capital building except for special ceremonies. I want all senators and representatives to spend their time in the home district. Meetings can be held electronically, as can voting. That way, we the people can keep an eye on them, and they don’t forget who sent them there. (It also prevents an insular, political class from developing.)

4) Senate goes back to be appointed by state legislatures. This should be in the part of the constitution that is either very hard, or impossible to change.

5) Ban the income tax. Put this in the special section as well.

Well, that’s a start.

MarkTheGreat on April 17, 2009 at 3:13 PM

BTW, Carrie Byron. Growl!

hawkdriver on April 17, 2009 at 2:35 PM

Too skinny for my tastes.

MarkTheGreat on April 17, 2009 at 3:14 PM

As far as the letter requesting the data:

If it takes more than a few days, a week at most for the DHS to get anything to those Senators who wrote the letter (if indeed the DHS provides anything) I would take it with a grain of salt. If the DHS has hard data, provide it as should have already happened before this report was published.

If as one would think the data already exists to support the conclusions of the current report, then it shouldn’t take but a day or two to get ANYTHING to the Senators.

Anything more than a week and it will smell like stonewalling and give the perception (rightfully so) that this report was indeed issued from biased opinion and conjecture only, NOT on any statistical or other data.

Of course the wording of the letter gives the DHS the option to give any piece of data, no matter how small or obscure, then the Left will be all up in arms about the “proof” that the report was correct to begin with, the Right is just crying, blah, blah, blah.

Sorry for the length of the post. My right wing extremist conspiracy gene is acting up…

catmman on April 17, 2009 at 3:16 PM

The only cure is term limits, to prevent people from becoming “insiders” in the first place.
The problem here is that the only way to get term limits in place is for the insiders to do it. In a word, fat chance.

MarkTheGreat on April 17, 2009 at 3:01 PM

Agree with you generally, Mark. National politician should not be a along term career. We are seeing the downfall of our system because of an elitist ruling class.

But I never could figure out the constitutionality of term limits. Seems if an electorate wants to send the same guy to DC, they should be able to. Guess an amendment but still looking for logic/vs rights of citizenry. Yes, I know the game is heavily skewed to the incumbents. Would love to see your ideas.

I’m for the repeal of the Reapportionament Act of 1929 (so far, feel free to debate). Fewer constiuents may mean a more responsive congressman. It should also mean less new legislation in general (hard to get a large body to agree on ANYTHING), and should open up congress to additional politcal parties, thereby forcing coalitions and compromise. A spoiler third party in the House could be a wonderful thing.

riverrat10k on April 17, 2009 at 3:17 PM

“Give me libery or give me death.”
getalife on April 17, 2009 at 1:33 PM

No, no, no. Your guys version is:

“Take my Liberty, and give me DEBT!”

catmman on April 17, 2009 at 3:18 PM

The only possible reason for holding back information from such a report would be if active criminal prosecutions are in the works.

I would be very surprised if any such prosecutions are being worked.

MarkTheGreat on April 17, 2009 at 3:18 PM

sorry about that riverrat, I usually include term limits, but forgot this time. I even brought it up in my 3:01pm post to right2bright.

MarkTheGreat on April 17, 2009 at 3:19 PM

riverrat, I agree with you vis-a-vis reapportionment, that’s another reason to no longer require all legislatures to move to Washington.

As for how to bring it about. With each passing year I dispair a little more as to whether it is possible within the current system.

Violent revolution is not the answer, but secession may be.

MarkTheGreat on April 17, 2009 at 3:22 PM

Too skinny for my tastes.

MarkTheGreat on April 17, 2009 at 3:14 PM

You realize it’ll be hard to take your posts serious from now on?

hawkdriver on April 17, 2009 at 3:24 PM

Just when does the new administration take responsibility for reports they release? 2013? For people who thought Bush was such a dunce, they seem to give him remarkable powers to control government months after he’s retired to Crawford.

I laughed my arse off it’s soooooo true! When do these little weenies take responsibility for wiping their own rears?

Big ole babies they are.

HondaV65 on April 17, 2009 at 3:27 PM

MarkTheGreat on April 17, 2009 at 3:19 PM

No problem with term limits…
But I think the excuse “the MSM won’t listen” is an “easy” excuse, but not one strong enough to give up on an effective strategy.
If it is well executed, and aggressive, enough would leak out. Right now the MSM can be passive about reporting conservative views, because we don’t follow through on attacks.
The MSM may be controlled, but not 100% controlled, and enough would spill out to have an effect.
Sitting back and letting them have free reign is not a good idea…just like letting them know they can never lose their job is a bad idea.

right2bright on April 17, 2009 at 3:41 PM

riverrat10k on April 17, 2009 at 2:40 PM

My niece, who lives in Tasmania, told me about an insurance company that was receiving a lot of claims of automobile collisions with kangaroo. The company sent an investigator to investigate the large increase in claims and on the way to the area of all of the claims, he collided with a kangaroo.

Johan Klaus on April 17, 2009 at 3:42 PM

I was quoting your 3:01 Mark. I still have problems with the quote thingy on this site.

riverrat10k on April 17, 2009 at 3:43 PM

You realize it’ll be hard to take your posts serious from now on?

hawkdriver on April 17, 2009 at 3:24 PM

That’s ok, nobody else does.

MarkTheGreat on April 17, 2009 at 3:51 PM

right2bright on April 17, 2009 at 3:41 PM

I did say that your suggestion should be tried. It’s just that I don’t hold out much chance for success in our current environment.

MarkTheGreat on April 17, 2009 at 3:53 PM

I really really wish I could be around to witness getalife standing there holding his balls while his left wing buddies strip all his rights away because he had the audacity to post on HA, a right wing blog.

I’d record the whining and crying for help from any ‘right winger’ in earshot for everyone to hear.

Spiritk9 on April 17, 2009 at 4:08 PM

but DHS ignored them in order to quickly make the document public. What was the rush?

-
Been said I’m sure… but what the hell. It was baked specially to be served with the TEA Parties. The timing is just too rich to not see it for what it is.
-
And we all had a great time being labeled as ‘threats to national security’ and such… NOT! Really though, there should be a report on the terrorist threat that is the Obama administration. One attack after another on Americans from Mr Apologizer in Chief.
-
He is what we knew would be.
-

RalphyBoy on April 17, 2009 at 4:21 PM

And the FBI does the job:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123992665198727459.html

getalife on April 17, 2009 at 4:26 PM

Janet Napolitano is a LIAR, Eric Holder is a LIAR, Barrack O’bunghole is a LIAR.

AGAIN, O’bunghole has lied claiming 90% of firearms recovered in Mexico came from the U.S.; this is a LIE.

The ACTUAL number is 63 of 31,311 firearms found in Mexico can be traced by the BATF&E to the U.S.

Barrack O’bunghole stated that firearms are coming from gun dealers on the Mexican border, this is a LIE.

Barrack O’bunghole stated he will not attempt to ban firearms, he is a LIAR. O’bunghole supports HR45.

The case against the ONLY firearms dealer that was suspected of dealing guns illegally was DISMISSED by an Arizona judge due to ZERO factual evidence.
In the case against the owner of Xicalliber guns in Arizona, the judge stated; “There is no proof whatsoever that any prohibited (firearm) possessor ended up with the firearms.”

nelsonknows on April 17, 2009 at 4:38 PM

nelsonknows on April 17, 2009 at 4:38 PM

Love ya Bro! ;) **wink**

upinak on April 17, 2009 at 4:42 PM

AGAIN, folks, why does the DHS put out a report that slanders, defames and falsly accused so-called “right-wingers” when the FACTS are clear that ZERO of the people in this category are wanted by the FBI and EVERYONE on the FBI most wanted list for domestic terrorism is a left-wing extremist?
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/fugitives/dt/fug_dt.htm

Maybe getalife would care to answer that?

nelsonknows on April 17, 2009 at 4:45 PM

First, your report states that “Returning veterans possess combat skills and experience that are attractive to rightwing extremists…” without listing any data to support such a vile claim against our nation’s veterans.

Wait… so veterans dont possess combat skills?

I think the DHS report should have been worded better, but the same is true for this letter.

orange on April 17, 2009 at 4:45 PM

Love ya Bro! ;) **wink**

upinak on April 17, 2009 at 4:42 PM

Luv ya back sis wink wink.

nelsonknows on April 17, 2009 at 4:47 PM

nelsonknows on April 17, 2009 at 4:47 PM

hey if you still have my email. I gots a “acoustic” question for you.

upinak on April 17, 2009 at 4:48 PM

“We can assure you that these beliefs are held by citizens of all races, party affiliation, male and female, and should not be listed as a factor in determining potential terror threats. A better word usage would be to describe them as practicing their First Amendment rights.”

BBBBBBBBBBWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!

Seven Percent Solution on April 17, 2009 at 5:05 PM

hey, i’m late joining this post.

i’m so proud to be a rt wing extremist. its because i’m a gun owner & a federalist. my brother is a vet. my mother was a bircher.

no matter. if you don’t think bambi & his buddies in DC don’t have our ISP addresses computerized & cross-tabbed for ease of arrest, you are naive.

kelley in virginia on April 17, 2009 at 5:12 PM

If this document had been produced by a college student, for a grade, it would have been thrust back into his or her trembling fingers with the exhortation: “Where are your sources? All citations must be in MLA format. Too general. Not college-level work.”
This report, however, was written by (supposed, anyway) professionals – who, one would think, have enough experience with such things to at least proofread the damn thing.
Don’t worry; they work for the Government, and they’re here to help.
/sarc

uncivilized on April 17, 2009 at 5:32 PM

Well, that’s a start.

MarkTheGreat on April 17, 2009 at 3:13 PM

Man I would love to see a thread here dealing specifically with the constitution. I like some of your ideas, some I’m not so hot on. I’m sure you would feel the same about mine and on this site there would be some great ideas to toss around. Talk about mind stimulating. Maybe we should suggest it to Ed/AP.

Oldnuke on April 17, 2009 at 5:42 PM

Oh and another thread I’d like to see is one on reloading. What type press, dyes, equipment, tech tips etc. I used a Dillon 550.

Oldnuke on April 17, 2009 at 5:45 PM

Oh, hey, it is late Friday afternoon! Do we know what our POTUS is trying to sneak through this week?

ORconservative on April 17, 2009 at 5:54 PM

ORconservative on April 17, 2009 at 5:54 PM

CO2 legislation. Just heard it on the news. Glove in Congress’s face. Either they legislate or the EPA will regulate.

Oldnuke on April 17, 2009 at 6:12 PM

No problem with term limits…
But I think the excuse “the MSM won’t listen” is an “easy” excuse, but not one strong enough to give up on an effective strategy.
If it is well executed, and aggressive, enough would leak out. Right now the MSM can be passive about reporting conservative views, because we don’t follow through on attacks.
The MSM may be controlled, but not 100% controlled, and enough would spill out to have an effect.
Sitting back and letting them have free reign is not a good idea…just like letting them know they can never lose their job is a bad idea.

right2bright on April 17, 2009 at 3:41 PM

I always thought it was fascinating to listen to Beltway insiders sit at a round-table discussion and talk about how “impossible” every dramatic idea to reform government was. Term limits? Never happen. Flat tax? Fun to talk about, but utterly impossible to implement – our ridiculously complex tax code is eternal, and “dramatic reform” would be trimming a thousand pages out of its vast bulk. Privatizing education? Not a chance – you would think the Department of Education was created by Thomas Jefferson, rather than Jimmy Carter. Cynical Washington reporters assured us that every feature of the titanic federal government was untouchable, and no one could ever do anything that would make much of a difference.

Then Obama comes along, and suddenly a young man with no experience and 53% of the vote tucked under his belt is “transformational.” As it turns out, “transformational” means “making the titanic government even bigger and more complicated.” He’s transformational in the sense that the vine growing on the wall of your house is “transformed” when it reaches the second-story windows. We’ve spent decades kicking deficits down the road for future Americans to deal with, and now we’re supposed to get breathlessly excited about a guy whose big idea is kicking a really HUGE deficit down the road. As awful as Obama has been so far, nothing he’s done is really new. He presides over a weary socialist system that has never wanted anything different than what he’s giving it: more power and money. The only novel twist he’s introduced is direct state ownership of private companies, which is really just government slipping a ring on the finger of Big Business, after years of living together.

All of this happens only because we, the people, tolerate it. We really could transform America in a single year. We could demand they burn the bulging tax codes, dismantle the mazes of office cubicles in Washington, impose term limits on Congress and rotate the senators-for-life out of their safe seats. Even at this late hour, we could make them defuse the Social Security bomb before it detonates. We could seal the border with Mexico in a matter of weeks. We could stimulate the economy by removing its shackles, and start talking about taking risks to gain rewards, instead of fretting over the latest detailed plan to socialize everyone’s losses. A united country could force a lame-duck Barack Obama to preside over the dismantling of the state he dreamed he would grow into a singularity.

It wouldn’t even take all of us – only most of us. A few million voters in the right places represents a tectonic shift in politics. All those things that used to be “unthinkable” would start happening, and fast, when Congressmen looked out their windows and saw sixty or seventy percent of their constituents demanding them. Many of the chains that bind our energy and creativity are really cobwebs, so fragile that the Left protects them by trying to prevent people from thinking about them.

I think term limits have to be one of the first items on the agenda, because a government composed of untouchable lifetime feudal lords from gerrymandered seats will never be responsive. 200,000 people in the 4th District of Massachusetts have kept Barney Frank in office since 1981, and given him the power to crash the financial system of the United States to suit his ideology, with absolutely zero fear that he would ever be held to account for his deeds. The centralized power of the modern Congress makes the idea of representatives who serve thirty or forty years, and amass incredible amounts of political influence, abhorrent. Of course, many of those districts would simply return hand-picked successors to Congress after the lifetime potentates are voted out… but at least the Saudi princes, multi-national executives, U.N. functionaries, and cable news anchors wouldn’t be able to get along with the same twenty cards in their Rolodex for half a century.

Doctor Zero on April 17, 2009 at 6:15 PM

I guess what I don’t get is why this sort of report focuses on “right wing” (or “left wing” for that matter) threats instead of just domestic terrorism. Setting aside for a moment the arguments about who’s being labeled here, it seems to me that the issues that they label as “right wing” are hardly related thematically. A “illegal immigration nut” may or may not be a “pro life nut”… so what information is gained by putting them in the same “right wing” basket? Isn’t the more relevant factor that these (and “left wing”) threat vectors are domestic?

Y-not on April 17, 2009 at 2:40 PM

Exactly. Does it matter all that much if the kook with the bomb is an Obama voter or a McCain voter? Can’t they just be called extremists?

Why is white supremacy a “right” thing? It is the exact philospy as Reverend Wright’s Church! The real difference isn’t political philosophy it the color of skin they want to prefer over all others. Which is totally twisted and not supported by any party.

petunia on April 17, 2009 at 6:19 PM

This answers the rather absurd meme that has popped up on liberal blogs, that the Bush administration is responsible for this report. First, while the Bush administration might have wanted an assessment of right-wing extremist threats, it didn’t necessarily want one that painted returning veterans and conservative thought on abortion, illegal immigration, and federalism as extremist threats, nor did it want a threat assessment that couldn’t find a threat and had no data on actual, specific groups. Secondly, and most obviously, this report was dated April 7, 2009, almost 3 months after Bush left office.

Uh, no. Download your desktop, right click on it, go to properties, click the PDF tag, right in the center of the tab it shows that the document was originally created Tuesday, January 23, 2007, 11:32:54 AM, it was later modified on April 12, 2009.

Yes, Bush was after you too. When are you all going to get that the executive branch has been completely taken over by people who want to institute a police state.

The evidence keeps mounting but everyone is still stuck at pointing fingers at Obama.

There is no conspiracy, it’s out in the open. Just look at the list of CFR members, some of your most cherished conservatives are part of the club. The elite are pushing us towards a two tier worldwide tyranny ala socialism. The serfs and the elite. Feudalism’s back! :)

True_King on April 17, 2009 at 6:25 PM

I think term limits have to be one of the first items on the agenda, because a government composed of untouchable lifetime feudal lords from gerrymandered seats will never be responsive.

Doctor Zero on April 17, 2009 at 6:15 PM

The only way make term limits fair is by constitutional amendment. Some states now have term limits but that just makes their representatives weak against the lifetime career politicians. The rules have to be the same for it to work.

How do you get a Constitutional Amendment? Does it have to start in Congress? There are so few honest politicians that if they get to vote on it first I don’t think it will happen. We needed to do it when Newt was Speaker.

petunia on April 17, 2009 at 6:27 PM

Starting more and more to sound like Geheime Staatspolizei

Wade on April 17, 2009 at 6:28 PM

I think term limits have to be one of the first items on the agenda, because a government composed of untouchable lifetime feudal lords from gerrymandered seats will never be responsive.

Doctor Zero on April 17, 2009 at 6:15 PM

Absolutely, I’d also like to see some sort of restriction on leaving one elected office to run for another. You such as a sitting senator running for president. Perhaps a prohibition on running for any other office until your present elected term has expired…even if you resign.

Oldnuke on April 17, 2009 at 6:28 PM

Many thanks to my senators, Coburn and Inhofe, for their participation in writing this letter. I am always so proud of them because they represent our state, and conservatives in general, well.

silvernana on April 17, 2009 at 6:30 PM

Doctor Zero on April 17, 2009 at 6:15 PM

You’re saving your comments for a book, right? If not you should be. Call it “Dr. Zero’s Prescription for Healing the Nation.”

I’ll buy it.

More, please, and louder.

Rod on April 17, 2009 at 6:36 PM

silvernana on April 17, 2009 at 6:30 PM

And I’m freakin’ pissed that neither of mine are on the letter….

ladyingray on April 17, 2009 at 6:36 PM

True_King on April 17, 2009 at 6:25 PM

Whenever this stupidity was started it did not become official government policy until Janet released it!

No one is saying that really dangerous people shouldn’t be watched but to label the core values held by conservatives as “radical” and “extremist” is government trying to stomp out their political opposition.

This was a clear attempt to stifle the Tea Parties and you know it!!!

There is no reason to believe that anyone connected with the Bush administration ever planned on letting such a stupid document see the light of day! And for the Obama people to continue to blame Bush for every failure of OUR CURRENT PRESIDENT is lame. Is Obama so weak he needs to be protected from all criticism?

He seems to think so or he wouldn’t try so hard to marginalize dissenters. I can’t imagine Bush doing such a horrible thing. This is more along the lines of Nixon paranoia.

petunia on April 17, 2009 at 6:38 PM

Update

Well, at least that’s a start. Unless he wants his entire administration contaminated by Napolitano’s contempt for our Constitutional rights, he will replace her pronto.

petefrt on April 17, 2009 at 6:39 PM

Uh, no. Download your desktop, right click on it, go to properties, click the PDF tag, right in the center of the tab it shows that the document was originally created Tuesday, January 23, 2007, 11:32:54 AM, it was later modified on April 12, 2009.

Yes, Bush was after you too. When are you all going to get that the executive branch has been completely taken over by people who want to institute a police state.

The evidence keeps mounting but everyone is still stuck at pointing fingers at Obama.

There is no conspiracy, it’s out in the open. Just look at the list of CFR members, some of your most cherished conservatives are part of the club. The elite are pushing us towards a two tier worldwide tyranny ala socialism. The serfs and the elite. Feudalism’s back! :)

True_King on April 17, 2009 at 6:25 PM

No that shows when adobe was updated you fool. Nice try though.

nelsonknows on April 17, 2009 at 6:42 PM

There is no reason to believe that anyone connected with the Bush administration ever planned on letting such a stupid document see the light of day! And for the Obama people to continue to blame Bush for every failure of OUR CURRENT PRESIDENT is lame. Is Obama so weak he needs to be protected from all criticism?

He seems to think so or he wouldn’t try so hard to marginalize dissenters. I can’t imagine Bush doing such a horrible thing. This is more along the lines of Nixon paranoia.

petunia on April 17, 2009 at 6:38 PM

Amen, petunia!!!!

ladyingray on April 17, 2009 at 6:42 PM

How do you get a Constitutional Amendment? Does it have to start in Congress?

petunia on April 17, 2009 at 6:27 PM

There are two methods for amending the constitution.

Oldnuke on April 17, 2009 at 6:52 PM

Gotta watch those Vets, you know,, cause well,, Timothy McVeigh was one,, and,, you know what he did!
Well,, let just see now. Lets use that same kind of logic on them.
Hmmm,, Ya know,, Hitler was a national leader. In fact,, he was the leader of an entire country! So was Mussolini, and Emperor Hirohito of Japan. Then there are others,, like Idi Amin, Stalin was the head of his country.
In fact,, there have been lots of butchers and mass murderers, dare I say extremists that have been leaders of nations!
In fact,, extremist leaders of nations, extremist heads of state have killed millions,, far far more than some nutcase like Timothy McVeigh could ever hope to kill.
So,, if Vets and pro-lifers and Tea Party goers need to be closely watched due to the extremism of a few,,,, then certainly the people are justified to carefully watch over and monitor their government,,, to be suspicious of those within it who would attempt to alter, change and destroy the foundations of this free society,,, certainly we as a people are justified by history, in fact more justified,,, far more justified and have greater cause to watch and be concerned about the possibility of extremism coming from our own government,,
They have conjecture! At the most,, one example of a murderer,, named Timothy McVeigh,, by that one example they paint all Vets as suspect.
They have their example,, we have ours! Hitler, Mussolini, Emperor Hirohito, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, communist and socialist and Islamo Fascist leaders all ,, need we go further back into history?? To Rome? To Asia?
Whom is more justified to watch over whom???? Who has the greater need to be alarmed???

JellyToast on April 17, 2009 at 6:54 PM

I’m more pissed at the limp wristed Republican whimpy response than I am the Dumb Dems profiling.

I am well aware that the Dewms are anti-American racists who will target, shut down, profile, intimidate and attempt to silence any opposition.
I would expect a little offense from The Repubs in the form of asking this nitwit Napolitano to resign and bring the heat on Obummer.

Instead we get an Honorable Janet letter.
I would preferr resign scumbag letter .

Time for a new party that is unafraid of its’ shadow and what the MSM will write about them.
Sickening whimps on the order of my “Good Friend John McCain” who gave us the Pinnochio Presidente.

dhunter on April 17, 2009 at 6:55 PM

Hmmmm how many senators fit Napalitano’s profile?

How many Judges?

dogsoldier on April 17, 2009 at 7:09 PM

Any libtard who wants to take my M855 better bring a flatbed truck and a couple of strong backs.

Limerick on April 17, 2009 at 7:36 PM

I know a lot of people who own guns who have never been arrested for a crime in their lives. They pay their taxes and mind their own business and all they ask is that other people do the same.

The Democrats are doing the same thing they did when the Clintons were in office…they are demonizing the opposition and starting that whole canard about a vast right wing conspiracy. It is just a way to change the subject.

Terrye on April 17, 2009 at 7:52 PM

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