Florida GOP didn’t quite get the message
posted at 7:15 pm on April 16, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
So with all of the tax-day Tea Parties, all of the outrage at the explosive growth of government, and all of the opposition to the inevitable demand for more taxes on middle America, one might think that the Republicans might start paying more mind to their smaller-government rhetoric. Not in Florida. The Republican-controlled state Senate unanimously passed a budget that includes new cigarette and gambling taxes, as well as higher fees for motorists and lawsuits:
The Florida Senate passed a stitched-together $65.6 billion spending plan Thursday that pays the bills with a huge infusion of federal stimulus cash, higher taxes on tobacco and fees on motorists and court-filers, along with a dramatic expansion of gambling.
The Republican-controlled Senate voted 39-0 to send its budget plan to the House, where GOP leaders are proposing higher fees, deeper cuts, and no trace of higher tobacco taxes or the gambling expansion favored by senators.
With the House budget debate getting rancorous across the hall, senators from both parties congratulated each other for turning to higher taxes and fees to avoid deeper cuts for the fiscal year that begins July 1. The state’s budget was $73.7 billion in the peak of the housing boom in 2006, but has been slashed by $8 billion in a procession of special sessions and regular ones as revenues from the sales tax and real estate sales plummeted.
Florida plans to get an extra billion dollars through tobacco taxes, which include cigarettes, cigars, and chewing tobacco. As we have noted endlessly, tobacco taxes are the worst class of regressive taxes. Florida Republicans say that they need it to have those who put a burden on the state health care system to reimburse the state — but if we didn’t have the state funding health care, they wouldn’t need to worry about the personal habits of their citizens. Make no mistake about it — elitist, autocratic government comes through the health-care excuse that government has the right to take away your personal choices based on the preferences of a few bureaucrats looking to conduct social engineering through punitive taxation.
Florida Republicans are patting themselves on the back for cutting the budget 11% over the last two years, and they deserve some credit for that. Instead of putting more burden on taxpayers, especially those who can least afford it, perhaps they can find other spending to cut from a $66 billion budget.
Blowback
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WHEN WILL GOVERNMENT SACRIFICE SO WE CAN PROSPER?!!!
lwssdd on April 16, 2009 at 7:18 PM
I wonder what Rush thinks about this………….?
……….. Either way, I think it is quite obvious that the ever increasing spending and taxing is an epidemic across party lines, and the whole political class needs to be flushed.
Time to start over…………
Seven Percent Solution on April 16, 2009 at 7:19 PM
And the municipal and condo cigarette bans on private property (hidden behind ridiculously asinine arguments of a “safe workplace” and “pollution”) are among the worst attacks on our right to private property. As all individual liberty requires the right to private property, we smokers were able to see where government was going long before others. It ain’t pretty.
progressoverpeace on April 16, 2009 at 7:19 PM
Pull your heads out of you butts, GOP.
BadgerHawk on April 16, 2009 at 7:21 PM
One word — Crist, teams up with Democrats to screw the Republicans …
tarpon on April 16, 2009 at 7:22 PM
I swear to God, I’m going to run for office. What’s wrong with going in and “cutting” spending? My husband is a VP in healthcare and cuts costs to save money. Has anybody in the State ever thought of negotiating prices for the State. Plus, would someone please explain why government workers are union? A union is “supposedly” to protect the workers from the government. HUH? It’s just a way of never laying anybody off or firing them. This has to change.
suzyk on April 16, 2009 at 7:23 PM
I don’t understand the love affair so many in the party have with tobacco.
It is a filthy habit. It bugs me when Rush talks about his “formally nicotine stained fingers” while smoking a stogie. It’s like he is bragging he stopped smoking while smoking.
I know too many people that died early because of tobacco. If it stops anyone from smoking it just might be worth it.
Steveangell on April 16, 2009 at 7:23 PM
That’s not your choice to make.
progressoverpeace on April 16, 2009 at 7:24 PM
My favorite TeaParty Sign:
“I am not the Governments ATM!!”
I think we actually might be.
portlandon on April 16, 2009 at 7:24 PM
The local Florida Indian reservations are going to make a killing this year, not to mention Georgia and Alabama stateline carry-outs.
coldwarrior on April 16, 2009 at 7:24 PM
Ed, the problem is that their 11% cuts did not come from wasteful BS or pet projects, it came from the justice budget (States Attorneys and Public Defenders has a 15% cut), education, and emergency management.
Squid Shark on April 16, 2009 at 7:27 PM
Glen Beck was talking today about GM’s main problems being poor management and legacy costs and the fact that this is the same blueprint our “leaders” are following.
Flush em all and start over, I say.
Huckabye-Romney on April 16, 2009 at 7:27 PM
Which part of “unanimously passed” did you miss? Perhaps you could explain this passage from the Orlando Sentinel – “With the House budget debate getting rancorous across the hall, senators from both parties congratulated each other for turning to higher taxes and fees to avoid deeper cuts for the fiscal year that begins July 1.” (emphasis added)
steveegg on April 16, 2009 at 7:28 PM
It actually is the Government’s place to protect it’s citizens.
Welcome to the 21′st century where there is no doubt that tobacco kills. My Inlaws had to move after they stopped smoking they could not get the cigarette smell out of their own home. But when they smoked just couldn’t understand all the fuss about the stink they caused. It eventually killed both at young ages of 54 and 62.
Steveangell on April 16, 2009 at 7:29 PM
The gop play the ole reliable tax card, then refuse to cut taxes.
Did you ever feel you are being used by the gop cons?
getalife on April 16, 2009 at 7:29 PM
Thanks for payin’ your SSA taxes and not collecting!
Rhinoboy on April 16, 2009 at 7:32 PM
This is Florida with no Income Tax
It is not like they were already taxing a lot.
Steveangell on April 16, 2009 at 7:33 PM
From themselves? I beg to differ.
Jack M. on April 16, 2009 at 7:34 PM
My previous was typed before you personalized it. No offense meant to you or your in-laws.
Rhinoboy on April 16, 2009 at 7:35 PM
So do cars. So do motorcycles. So does rock climbing. Etc., etc.
Give me a break.
If the morons who feel like you think that their bar is an unsafe workplace due to cigarette smoke, then the pansies can wear gas masks or surgical masks at the job. As to customers, they can choose to go to non-smoking places. But that’s not good enough for people like you.
People with attitudes like yours are a threat to everyone’s liberty.
progressoverpeace on April 16, 2009 at 7:35 PM
Smoking is bad for your health, yes.
But so is all the crap in sodas, the heaps of sugar people put in their tea and coffee, junk food most people consume by the truckload, the liver cancer caused by alcoholism, the list goes on with bad habits.
But people are allowed to get obese in this country, and they are allowed to slowly damage their bodies over their lifetime with a plethora of nasty, yet legal items.
If sodas and beer started being taxed to the hilt every year or so like cigs many more people would get very angry.
*I don’t like it when Rush speaks of nicotine fingers, either. Gross.
yellow_railroad on April 16, 2009 at 7:40 PM
Ha Ha Ha. Good luck Florida. I went Galt on the new federal hike on tobacco taxes.
TheTrollhammer on April 16, 2009 at 7:41 PM
This is just the legislature running from the problem and refusing to address the REAL waste and instead want to send the states schools and justice system even further down the toilet.
My beautiful state is on a short walk to sucessfully mixing the worst of the South/Rust Belt/Northeast.
Squid Shark on April 16, 2009 at 7:43 PM
The problem with this tax is when people actually stop smoking and tax revenue haults the government looks at the short fall and starts looking for another way to generate tax revenue.
lwssdd on April 16, 2009 at 7:43 PM
You’re right about that. I stopped smoking 20 years ago but I’ll always remember what an old friend told me and it had some influence on my stopping. About my smoking he said: “Unlike the rest of us you smokers can pick the way you’re going to die”.
rplat on April 16, 2009 at 7:45 PM
I’ve been getting the feeling for a very long time that it’s not really about the taxes.
They just want to control a persons every move.
Is it not the only logical explanation?
yellow_railroad on April 16, 2009 at 7:47 PM
Lotsa tea parties to come. Many at the polls. Bubbbye.
marklmail on April 16, 2009 at 7:48 PM
While that is unfortunate that they died young, they ,like all of us, make choices for ourselves, and I for one do not want you, my neighbor, or the state making those decisions for me. This country was founded on freedom, I’d like it to stay that way, but it’s becoming a losing battle.
Tim Zank on April 16, 2009 at 7:50 PM
I live in Florida, and I don’t smoke. I voted against the smoking ban a few years ago because its just another example of gov’t stomping on personal freedoms. Many restaurants and bars and other small businesses have gone out of business as a direct result of that ban, and hence lotsa tax revenue is lost forever. Where does it stop?
Crist is a pantywaist. I miss Jeb.
I wanna move to Texas.
ornery_independent on April 16, 2009 at 7:54 PM
Tar/feathers
Mommypundit on April 16, 2009 at 7:54 PM
Everybody trades some years for their pleasures. We all have this choice. People who do sports beat up their bodies in pursuit of their fun. People who are more sedentary tend to atrophy away years, instead.
When Jim Fixx dropped dead jogging at age 45, or something like that, all that people could say was that he would have died a few years earlier if he hadn’t been jogging. Then someone else calculated that he spent those years actually jogging, and then some.
It’s the choice that matters. And since anxiety is worse for a body than most anything else, taking away these choices doesn’t save much of anything, and makes lives miserable in the meantime.
I have no problem if these anti-smokers want to make tobacco illegal. That would be, at least, honest. But they know they can’t, so they just turn smokers into pariahs and drain us of every dollar they can. It’s just plain nasty.
progressoverpeace on April 16, 2009 at 7:54 PM
Yep. Term limits.
Vote them all out. Start the heck over.
ladyingray on April 16, 2009 at 7:55 PM
I agree and think the Floridians need to be consistent. Part of the selling point for higher sin tax rates was the arguement that it curb the very behavior responsible for the increased societal costs and impose specific costs on those engaged in the activity itself. So perhaps we should tax high school dropouts, mothers with multiple out of wedlock children, welfare recipients, and miscreants of all stripes at a higher rate than the productive members of society.
moxie_neanderthal on April 16, 2009 at 7:56 PM
I dunno. Florida doesn’t have an income tax.
What alternative do they have (other than more spending cuts, which I can’t adequately speak to)? I just can’t get too worked up about cigarette taxes and expanded gambling and don’t really see that as a horrible case of “social engineering”. Smoking really is in a category of its own when it comes to what it costs smokers and non-smokers alike.
As for the “state funding health care”, the state would be funding health care for the poor one way or another, no matter what system we have in place. Wouldn’t they? Even if everyone had private insurance, smokers increase the costs for people who pay insurance premiums, which isn’t fair either.
I am far more concerned about the trillions and trillions in Stimulus Bucks than I am with Florida’s situation (which seems to be an improvement over what’s going on in other states like, say, New York and California)
Buy Danish on April 16, 2009 at 7:56 PM
Ha! Run on that platform and you’ve got my vote, if I’m in your district. A hint for dealing with the hydra of gov’t unions – simply shutter those departments that are unionized and fire everyone in them, “Secretary of _____” on down. What’ll they do, go on strike? God knows there’s enough unemployed people down here that can fill any truly “necessary” jobs, too. It’s about time these autocrats learned that they need us a lot more than we need them.
Blacksmith on April 16, 2009 at 7:58 PM
You see my neighbors have these trees that cause me allergies to no ends. Asthma rates are really high in my state, and it has been proven that the cottonwoods here at certain times of the year aggravate allergies and asthma. Ive had sinus surgeries,been on so many medications for it, and still when those cottonwoods bloom,boy I tell you I feel it. I was told a number of years ago that I have a precancerous condition in my sinus’ caused by an untreated sinus infection-that was brought on by this allergy-Can I now make my government cut down every single cottonwood tree, or rather every single tree now? Shall we tax every tree owner to insure that the citizens are kept safe from these dastardly trees?/sarc
canditaylor68 on April 16, 2009 at 8:00 PM
But smokers are guaranteed to die young, and to die more suddenly – or so the story goes. In the end, smokers cost the health care system less than non-smokers. And, as was pointed out above, we should also have serious adjustments on our witholding taxes, since everyone claims that smokers will likely not even get to drawing SS, as we’ll all be dead long before that.
progressoverpeace on April 16, 2009 at 8:00 PM
I trust my fellow man to act in his own self-interest. If he wishes to destroy himself, that is his own affair – it does not force me to deal with him. Any more beyond that lies the desire to be a master – and a master always requires slaves.
Blacksmith on April 16, 2009 at 8:01 PM
It’s stuff like this that makes me wonder why so many conservative leaders are worried about a third party forming. If both the parties we have are broken, perhaps a third party is the best option.
JadeNYU on April 16, 2009 at 8:01 PM
Of course they raise the taxes on cigarettes. Even most conservatives aren’t consistent when it comes to this sort of sin tax and don’t care.
Either increased taxation and increased spending is a bad thing or it isn’t. It hardly matters that it’s not coming out of your pocket…it’s coming out of another citizen’s.
Choose your side and stick with it.
Asher on April 16, 2009 at 8:03 PM
I am truly sorry about your in-laws but I do have to take exception with your statement. I do agree that smoking is hazardous to the person who is actually smoking but there have been no legitimate studies with a statistical confidence interval that show a correlation with second-hand smoke and incidence of lung cancer. In fact the World Health Organization’s first study on the effects of second hand smoke found no statistically significant risk existed for non-smokers who either lived or worked with smokers. We are constantly inundated with the meme that second-hand smoke kills thousands of people each year. I challenge anyone to name three people whose death certificate states that they were killed by second-hand smoke. Judging by what you wrote it seems that it is the smell that offends you. I’m sorry but being offended by the smell of smokers is not a reason to curtail the private property rights of citizens.
dawgyear on April 16, 2009 at 8:04 PM
A FYI, while the GOP has a supermajority in the Florida Senate, it tends to be much more moderate. The Florida House is conservative and I bet many of these tax hikes/fees will be cut down, etc. The big problem for Florida is that it’s dependent on tourists and the sales tax, both of which are down in this economy. All in all, FL is very low taxed. No income taxes. Low C corporate taxes. And property taxes, while somewhat high compared to Alabama, have been coming down little by little.
TimTebowSavesAmerica on April 16, 2009 at 8:05 PM
You are correct about that. When they tax “latest political evil here” and give credits for an “politicaly correct behavior there”. It is definately not about revenue. Also Obama made that point during a Dem debate that it is about fairness not about increased revenue to the government. My definition of fairness is vastly different from Obama’s though.
lwssdd on April 16, 2009 at 8:06 PM
If the gov’t would stick to their sphere and stop meddling in our personal affairs, they’d find they have to spend far, far less, and have more revenue to boot. If they’d start learning history and become numerate (hell, I’d bet half of them at least need to become literate!), they’d WANT to meddle far, far less. They currently do not hold themselves to that standard – it is well past time we do.
“That which governs best, governs least.” - T. Paine
As far as the smokers go – there’s a reason that the late-night TV ads for cheap insurance say “If you’re a 50-year-old male, non-smoker…”
Blacksmith on April 16, 2009 at 8:13 PM
Smoke endangers those around you candy doesn’t. Candy also can be healthy smoke can’t.
Steveangell on April 16, 2009 at 8:14 PM
Spent a week in Florida in March; tobacco was quite a bit cheaper than what I was used to seeing. Without looking it up, I suspect their tobacco taxes were relatively low compared to most other states. On the other hand, booze prices were very high.
That doesn’t justify a tax increase, but as mentioned they don’t have an income tax; the money has to come from somewhere.
Hollowpoint on April 16, 2009 at 8:14 PM
I wanna move to Texas.
ornery_independent on April 16, 2009 at 7:54 PM
Well come ahead – we’ve got room!
XWing5 on April 16, 2009 at 8:15 PM
You can’t eliminate all taxes or spending. Unlike the Feds who have no checks and balances whatsoever (other than elections), the states have to balance their budgets. As I said earlier – there is no income tax in Florida. They could get rid of the cigarette tax and replace it with an income tax. Is that better?
I do think that their revenue projections won’t work out as planned since many people will give up smoking.
Buy Danish on April 16, 2009 at 8:15 PM
For God’s sake…the politicians of both parties could care less what the citizens want…they rule, they make the rules, we serve….until the fear us again, we will have no change in their behavior.
JIMV on April 16, 2009 at 8:16 PM
Pictures from the tea party in Arlington, Texas. Governor Perry made an appearance.
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/sredir?uname=casilee&target=ALBUM&id=5325074212078966401&authkey=Gv1sRgCIKqnK-h8Y2pzwE&authkey=Gv1sRgCIKqnK-h8Y2pzwE&feat=email
txag92 on April 16, 2009 at 8:16 PM
When rivers run backwards
Hinmahtooyahlatkek on April 16, 2009 at 8:17 PM
You have two of the more valuable pieces of paper that exist in the world. I refer to the death certificates.
The Lung Association has been waiting for years for some doctor to sign off on smoking cigarettes as a cause of death. If you play your cards right, the ones you have should get them to pony up millions.
What’s that you say? They don’t actually state that smoking is the cause of death?
Well in that case – never mind. Possibly you might seek out grief counseling instead of anger at people who are unrelated to the cause of your grief.
platypus on April 16, 2009 at 8:18 PM
If we can’t distinguish between the parties then maybe we need to force the ones that do not agree with OUR conservative principals into a party they feel more comfortable with, like the Dems.
lwssdd on April 16, 2009 at 8:18 PM
Right
You sound just like the “Scientist” last century that said Smoking wouldn’t kill you.
We know better. It makes no logical sense that if you smoke it kills you but if someone else breaths is the same smoke it doesn’t. Your body hardly absorbs all the harmful chemicals let alone what comes directly from the cigarette/cigar.
By the way it definitely affects my astma immediately.
Steveangell on April 16, 2009 at 8:19 PM
My assumption was correct. Florida had the 47th lowest tobacco taxes in the country at $.89 below average.
Hollowpoint on April 16, 2009 at 8:23 PM
Why are other people responsible for your medical condition? Maybe we should tax you higher since your asthma increases medical costs and runs up insurance premiums on those of us who can breathe just fine.
I was just about to feel a little sympathy for you but one more of your fascist postings and there will be no chance.
platypus on April 16, 2009 at 8:25 PM
I agree with the FAIR TAX, but this also illustrates my biggest concern with the Fair Tax. If it is not spelled out with no uncertain terms that one product can not be taxed more than another, then all the fair tax will do is shift the total responsibility of the IRS onto business. No matter the form, if any tax is not completely flat it will never be fair.
lwssdd on April 16, 2009 at 8:26 PM
And bless them for that. Hopefully it will be the state House that does the grown-ups-in-charge thing and kills the tax increases.
platypus on April 16, 2009 at 8:27 PM
The Florida house, with clusterfark Rubio and his corrupt sucessor are the reason we are in this mess in the first place.
Squid Shark on April 16, 2009 at 8:28 PM
When are principled, freedom-loving, Constitution believing people going to tell the GOP to go to hell? Dems and Republicans will continue to blow people off until their jobs are at stake. And as long as Republicans can snooker people into buying the argument that if you don’t vote for a Republican, that the liberal Democrat will win, the Republicans will continue to screw you. I don’t know how many times I got pilloried here by Republicans for not voting for McCain.
King of the Britons on April 16, 2009 at 8:31 PM
As I said in my previous post name three people whose death certificate states that second-hand smoke is the cause of death. Don’t believe me however, check out the actual WHO report yourself. Your argument is not logical. You are not breathing in the smoke that the smoker is breathing. After the smoke has been taken in by the smoker and exhaled it diffuses rapidly. In this same report the researchers concluded that living with a spouse who smokes is equivalent to smoking six cigarettes per year. Again, it sounds like you have a problem with the smell and this is not a reason to curtail the private property rights of citizens.
dawgyear on April 16, 2009 at 8:34 PM
I liked Rubio. He was aggressive and a relatively good conservative. I especially like that plan to raise the sales tax by two cents but then get rid of homestead property taxes. A no income and homestead property tax state would’ve been a REAL paradise.
TimTebowSavesAmerica on April 16, 2009 at 8:55 PM
Like the guy with the sign says….ALL politicians are jackasses.
notagool on April 16, 2009 at 9:03 PM
This is just sad.
kahall on April 16, 2009 at 9:05 PM
Cigars too? Dang. I get my CAOs and Cohibas from Thompson Cigars in Florida. Wonder if that includes internet sales. Probably so.
kurtzz3 on April 16, 2009 at 9:10 PM
I completely agree with you, but I’m sorry to say that my husband and I were forced to move out of apartments twice for the sole reason that we smoked and the “smell” was given as the reason…and this was in TX!
The Smoke Nazis are for real.
But as much as smoke-haters like Steveangell like to whine, 2nd hand smoke is neither a carcinogen nor a pathogen and no scientific study has ever conclusively linked smoking to cancer or death as the direct cause.
Word.
What makes me furious is that the feds and the stats have jacked up cigarette taxes while passing smoking bans everywhere at the same time.
How are we supposed to create revenue if there’s nowhere to smoke them?
We should have thrown cigs yesterday instead of tea bags!
I don’t care who you are or what your beef is: Tobacco helped make this country great and smoking isn’t the root of all evil.
Now, it’s smoking, but next, it will be you and your “bad habit” that will be in the dragnet.
And yes, it’s a horrible incursion of private property as well as an infringement of personal liberties.
Smoking is Freedom.
(Letting people smoke is respecting their freedom.)
Jenfidel on April 16, 2009 at 9:16 PM
So ‘Steveangell’ has decreed smoking to be a filthy habit and now all must obey? People die from sloth, from overeating, from overindulging in a myriad of supposed vices, but that’s their decision. You can’t seriously believe it’s an educational issue, can you? I mean, we can all at least agree that anyone who chooses to smoke knows the dangers, right? So knowing this, you’d still prefer the government turn your fellow Americans who choose to smoke into second-class citizens?
Stop supporting things based on your likes and dislikes, and start using our Constitution and Bill of Rights as the real litmus test. If not, the government will one day come after something you like and will use those same “if it saves just one person” arguments against you.
CaptFlood on April 16, 2009 at 9:18 PM
Ever get the feeling that to get the attention of a politician, you first have to knee them in the balls, then grab them by the throat while you punch them in the nose?
GarandFan on April 16, 2009 at 9:24 PM
The only way politicians will get it is if we don’t continue voting for incumbents. We whine and bitch and send the same assholes back election cycle after election cycle. You want to send a message we need to just not show up for an entire election cycle…they’ll get the message, yes we’ll have to live with absolute dim control for 2 years, but they’ll get the damn message.
jwp1964 on April 16, 2009 at 9:25 PM
Rubio failed to make the tough choices when he needed to and show some real leadership on responsible cuts, instead he went to the old canard of cutting education.
Squid Shark on April 16, 2009 at 9:28 PM
You really think these taxes are to help smokers quit!!!! Congress already has us (one single group of individuals) responsible for funding the newly passed SCHIP program. They also spent an additional $4Billion on a program for the “Cessation of Smoking……..” in the Stimulus package. This is the type of stupid BS that these people come up with. Beware if all smoking stops as a new group of people will have to fill the void for all the taxes lost. It may be an offense habit to some, but it is still a LEGAL product last time I checked. Having worked in a chemical plant years ago, believe me you have a lot more to worry about than second hand smoke. Instead of degrading smokers, tell your politicians to get some guts and make them illegal and stop taking campaign contributions from the industry and selling them abroad to others.
hillbilly on April 16, 2009 at 9:32 PM
Yet again, I respectfully disagree. We do have state funded healthcare, and the personal habits of those who would take advantage of that (the poor) are the ones targeted by the tobacco companies. I say make the taxes so high that no poor person will think of buying the stuff. Florida can use the money to fund research into tobacco mozaic viruses.
unclesmrgol on April 16, 2009 at 9:36 PM
North and central Florida should secede from southern Flordia from, say, West Palm on down. (Sorry, Naples!)
SouthernGent on April 16, 2009 at 9:41 PM
If those folks died at such an early age where is the increased health care costs?
Yeah, I smoke.
Tom
marinetbryant on April 16, 2009 at 9:44 PM
Once the cost of cigs gets too high, the Government is going to start looking elswhere. How many people die from motorcycles eash year? what’s the cost to the healthcare system? what about skiing? Hang-gliding? Scuba? Caving? Mountain Climbing? Surfing? Swimming? How about alcohol?
Do we want to actually live in a society where the “Government” (that’s actually US by the way “We the people” and all that) tells us what our sexual habits should be, what our lifestyle choices are, how much we should weigh, what mode of transport we can use, how many glasses of red wine we can have per week, and on and on and on? What the hell is wrong with people? And furthermore, just because “statistically” a group of people may “cost the healthcare system more” doesn’t mean anything. How many people smoke because they’re stressed out about having to work 60 hours a week? How many overweight people are there who would not be overweight if not for the time spent sitting at their desks doing work in a higher paying job while others with less responsibility are not at work? In other words you can’t just make the claim that “they cost more” when in fact “they” may actually be contributing MUCH more to our society than those whom claim to be “costing the health care system less”. There probably wouldn’t be a healthcare system if not for smokers and overweight motorcyclists who enjoy going skiing on weekends in the first place.
KMC1 on April 16, 2009 at 9:51 PM
I am a former smoker and one of those obnoxious types that gets pissy when others smoke around me. I think it is a filthy habit and yes it kills people.
That being said, I oppose an increase of tobacco taxes on principle.
The happiest people today are Georgia gas station owners on I-75 and I-95 right across the state line. Their business just shot up 50%.
Guess the left was right after all. Tea parties were a dud if the FL GOP can pull this crap off the next day and do it unanimously to boot.
angryed on April 16, 2009 at 9:55 PM
Really? Only 5% of people with a college education smoke. Why do you think that is? Marketing or education?
Buy Danish on April 16, 2009 at 10:00 PM
You make 2 tired, illogical, and always easily defeated arguments for gov ban (or tax out of reach) on smoking. It’s like you’ve been living in a cave and have never debated this issue.
Here they are:
1. Governments role is to lengthen the life of it’s citizens by removing things that the citizens would otherwise choose and are willing to take the risk of dying earlier for.
2. Governments role is to protect citizens from the actions of another (second-hand smoke) by eliminating the action/product ALTOGETHER (banning cigarettes or taxing them out of purchase range), not just the action that effects another citizen. To a busybody like YOU, it “just might be worth it”.
3. YOU don’t like the smell.
4. You didn’t argue for gov motivation to lower health cost in a socialist system that involuntarily forces citizens to participate in. I’m surprised.
Rebuttal:
1. You only apply #1 to smoking/cigarettes for no logical reason. Actually there couldn’t possibly be one, and you (after back into a wall) will admit this.
2. The 2nd-hand smoke issue is easily taken care of by the public bans in place already, or the freedom of people to choose which businesses they want to patronize, or the social events/places they want to patronize/engage in. In other words, you don’t want to be exposed to smoke, it’s EASY to avoid.
3. Tough s**t. Maybe I don’t like YOUR smell or your looks for that matter. Maybe YOU are a slob and lazy fat stinky granola boy. I could care less because I’m not in people’s business like you seem to be. Get a life, freak!
nottakingsides on April 16, 2009 at 10:09 PM
And Illinois. The lack of a state income tax saves every taxpayer there 3.5% from the Illinois rate.
But the cigarette tax is stupid.
Jaibones on April 16, 2009 at 10:12 PM
By making your personal decisions for you? What you can and can’t consume? What’s next? Who can and can’t have children?
That’s a scary concept.
The government is responsible for protecting their citizens by having a police force and a military. Other than that, it’s up the the individual.
Hog Wild on April 16, 2009 at 10:22 PM
Amazing how fast these board go from 0-namecalling.
Squid Shark on April 16, 2009 at 10:24 PM
Amazing how I could care less what is amazing to some.
nottakingsides on April 16, 2009 at 10:31 PM
Here in Tallahassee we’ve never considered the FL legislatural body to be the brightest bulbs in the ceiling.
Carl on April 16, 2009 at 10:32 PM
It’s actually a slightly more sinister shell game, because they have already spent the assumed_tobacco_tax monies and so they merely claim that they have to make up the shortfall by raising property taxes (one of the few areas where (until very recently) raising taxes always increased income) OR shutting down your educational gulags (which of course, disproportionally affects the poor (:black), inner-city (:black), working class (:neo-marxist (I think?)) people (only they use the word “impact” instead of affect, because they are j-school grads)), and the horror this engenders is a perfect vehicle for driving thousands of non-property-tax-paying people to angrily vote for the increase.
But we daren’t utter the word “conspiracy” (mostly because we already have the phrases “lucky shot” and “odd how that always works out”).
fronclynne on April 16, 2009 at 10:32 PM
Jeez. Take a chill pill. Or smoke another cigarette.
Maybe so, but on a scale of 1 to 10 with government stupidity, it’s at the bottom of my list of issues to get infuriated about.
Buy Danish on April 16, 2009 at 10:45 PM
Would someone please wake me up. I’m having a terrible nightmare. I’m dreaming the United States is going mad. That our politicians think our pockets stretch all the way down to the hem of our pants. This is crazy. Don’t any of them have children? Grandchildren? Maybe we should all move to Texas and form a more perfect union.
Amazing Grace on April 16, 2009 at 11:32 PM
How much more evidence do we need that the GOP is a big government party? Yes, there are a few elected official who do believe in fiscal discipline. But the vast majority of Republican elected officials buys votes with spending just like the Democrats.
Chekote on April 16, 2009 at 11:44 PM
Texas is in the same hole everyone else is in. If they left the house, they would fall apart, to think otherwise is wishful thinking.
Squid Shark on April 17, 2009 at 12:11 AM
Buy Danish on April 16, 2009 at 10:45 PM
You assume only smokers are opposed to arbitrary “for your own good” taxation that supposedly helps pay for something completely unrelated. I think you may be wrong on this.
The issue would also be higher on your “list of issues” if you lived and owned a business in the Leftist-busybody infested s**thole state/city that I live. A governor that basically admits to enacting tax policy to destroy the tobacco industry, and obviously has a serious problem with alcohol sales not being taxed enough. A city that now has no nightlife (due in part to the nannyist-busybodies like the commenter I responded to, and taxes/regulation), illegal immigrant infestation, crime exploding/gangs, young pros gone, business leaving or being taxed out, “cultural” events paid by taxes, etc.. I wish I could give better/specific examples, but I prefer the anonymity (it’s better for conservative business owners to stay on the down low here).
When someone says they want the gov to eliminate a specific product/action because they don’t like the “smell”, the light berating they receive on a conservative board is more than justified.
nottakingsides on April 17, 2009 at 12:30 AM
Ed, the problem is that their 11% cuts did not come from wasteful BS or pet projects, it came from the justice budget (States Attorneys and Public Defenders has a 15% cut), education, and emergency management.
Squid Shark on April 16, 2009 at 7:27 PM
that is the game the politicians play. They cut needful things instead of the waste so that the public will back higher taxes to keep the “police, firemen, teachers etc) . It is a sad state of affairs when our governmetn would rather see the public do without needful services just so they can grow their government.
unseen on April 17, 2009 at 12:47 AM
I’m sorry for your losses. I can relate to how you feel through my own experience.
But… part of being free is the freedom to make bad choice, not just good ones. That is, as long as you’re not impinging upon the liberty of others.
These “sin taxes” on tobacco are WRONG. They’re justified by the bogus notion that smokers present a higher cost to the health care system and they don’t. In fact, and be warned this is and ugly fact, they actually save 32 cents per pack in health care costs according to a recent Vanderbilt study.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/145659.php
The larger hypocrisy of claiming that smokers should be taxed more is that government routinely takes these revenues and uses them for other things. If they really believed that these tax dollars should be raised to offset the cost of smoking upon society, why aren’t they using those tax dollars for just that?
Nope. Don’t buy it. It’s just another BS reason for jacking people up.
Anyway, back on topic…. Crist is a tool, and everything that’s wrong with the GOP. :D
Murf76 on April 17, 2009 at 12:50 AM
It seems to go back to the property tax amendment of a few years ago. They promised that homeowners would save lots of money on lower property taxes, but it was pointed out early on that it wasn’t going to amount to much. The Blue Hairs didn’t care…they’re on “fixed incomes” you know, and besides, Florida doesn’t really need all those damn teachers, police, firefighters, EMTs and the like…well, maybe the EMTs, those tickers are getting kinda fragile as time goes on.
Also, Florida depends a lot on tourism taxation…and of course with the economy being shot…
The property tax amendment saved developers and Disney big bucks. But construction is pretty much dead, and Disney World is laying off around 1100 of its employees anyway.
Keep in mind that Florida has no state income tax. Also, it is a right to work state and unions are few and weak. Because of the Sunshine Law government employees can’t strike.
What’s happening in Florida should be a lesson to the rest of the country-you can’t blame everything on the unions, and going to the opposite extreme of Democratic tax and spend mentality is no good either.
Dr. ZhivBlago on April 17, 2009 at 1:26 AM
I’VE GOT IT! ITS JUST DAWNED ON ME! The reason why everyone in the government is spending like crazy: They have the inside scoop that the Fed is going to have to print tons more cash b/c China is no longer purchasing our debt. Thus, driving interest rates up and making the US dollar worthless.
.
They know this so they want to spend while the dollar still buys something!
.
What do you think about that theory?
JeffVader on April 17, 2009 at 2:24 AM
I don’t follow this stuff, but my husband works in the comp & benefit field and tells me that it’s a well-documented fact that, on average, smokers incur less medical costs over the course of their lives than non-smokers. There were 2 large studies done; both found the same results. It’s kind of problematic; no one wants to “champion” unhealthy behavior because it’s better for the bottom line.
Sounds counter-intuitive, but smokers typically don’t live as long as non-smokers. Health care costs are like balloon mortgages: they rise dramatically with old age. Most smokers don’t get there.
If you’re going to make arguments about this tax or that, they should at least have some truth. Smokers smoke (and pay the tobacco taxes) because they need the nicotine. Time to get more legal addictions on board! All kinds of taxes can be extorted, then the person dies before he/she can benefit.
Anyway, next time you see someone puffing away, thank them. With sincerity.
Stella451 on April 17, 2009 at 7:35 AM
You’re missing the bigger point. Whether property or cigarette or income tax, the issue is the same. Whenever in a fiscal shortfall, government ALWAYS elects to increase taxes rather than decrease spending.
As for weak unions in FL…whatever. The biggest and costliest (to taxpayers) unions are the same everywhere…local govt unions. This includes teachers, firefighters, cops, etc. I have nothing against those people. But when firefighters are making $150K a year with overtime in addition to overly generous health and pension plans and all that while retiring at 45, something’s not right with the system.
angryed on April 17, 2009 at 7:36 AM
So when will automobiles be banned?
zeebeach on April 17, 2009 at 8:25 AM
I don’t assume that at all. What kind of tax would you prefer?
Buy Danish on April 17, 2009 at 8:36 AM
It’s important to note that Florida cig tax has been at the current rate since 1990 and that Florida’s cig tax ranks 46 nationwide, i.e., only four states have a lower cig tax. An extra dollar would put Florida at about middle of the rankings.
Mig on April 17, 2009 at 8:37 AM
Mig, your common sense doesn’t seem so common when the facts actually overrule the hysteria of a misconception.
volsense on April 17, 2009 at 8:55 AM
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