Tea party appetizer: “Our Troubling Tax System”
posted at 8:50 pm on April 14, 2009 by Allahpundit
No crudités or finger sandwiches for this party; just raw red meat, still on the bone, courtesy of the Cato Institute. Consider it a companion piece to Reason TV’s “unpatriotic” critique last week of our progressive income tax, a point echoed in yesterday’s Journal by Ari Fleischer:
According to the CBO, those who made less than $44,300 in 2001 — 60% of the country — paid a paltry 3.3% of all income taxes. By 2005, almost all of them were excused from paying any income tax. They paid less than 1% of the income tax burden. Their share shrank even when taking into account the payroll tax. In 2001, the bottom 60% paid 16.3% of all taxes; by 2005 their share was down to 14.3%. All the while, this large group of voters made 25.8% of the nation’s income.
When you make almost 26% of the income and you pay only 0.6% of the income tax, that’s a good deal, courtesy of those who do pay income taxes. For the bottom 40%, the redistribution deal is even better. In 2001, these 43 million Americans, who earn less than $30,500, made 13.5% of the nation’s income but paid no income tax. Instead, they received checks from their taxpaying neighbors worth $16.3 billion. By 2005, those checks totaled $33.3 billion.
Gallup reports today that 48 percent of the public thinks their tax rate is “about right.” Given Fleischer’s numbers, I’ll bet.
Blowback
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Fox News has hit a new low (if that is possible) by promoting these tea parties.
getalife on April 14, 2009 at 8:54 PM
Our nation did just fine for most of it’s history with an across-the-board flat 0% income tax.
jgapinoy on April 14, 2009 at 8:57 PM
Dude. Russia has a flat tax? This is a good video, but they need Jesse Jackson to dub the intro – “legislation, regulation, and consternation”.
Taxes are an issue that properly packaged can vault the R’s back into power, I think.
Spirit of 1776 on April 14, 2009 at 8:58 PM
getalife…..don’t worry about it…..it’s only a grass roots endeavor by those who are concerned about the spending that is out of control, the tab burden along with the hyperinflation to ensue. The misery index is creeping up with Carter II.
scruplesrx on April 14, 2009 at 8:58 PM
” getalife ” How apropo.
ambuldog on April 14, 2009 at 8:58 PM
I predict millions in the streets tomorrow.
Even on a work day.
Millions.
artist on April 14, 2009 at 8:58 PM
getalife has hit a new low (if possible) by engaging in copypasta.
carbon_footprint on April 14, 2009 at 8:59 PM
Allah forbid Fox stands up for American values laid out in the constitution.
blatantblue on April 14, 2009 at 9:01 PM
Bring squirrels with you tomorrow to the tea parties……there might be some ACORNS.
scruplesrx on April 14, 2009 at 9:01 PM
Reporting news is not promoting. I know it is hard for you to understand that when you get your news solely from Obama cheeleaders. But that is the way it should always be.
petunia on April 14, 2009 at 9:03 PM
MSNBC too. Oops.
canditaylor68 on April 14, 2009 at 9:05 PM
I was just looking up where the Tea Parties are being held around me. I am 15 miles from Washington DC. Why can’t republicans organize an effing simple thing like this? There are literally 4 different locations within 20 miles of DC holding protests. The whole EFFING point of this thing is to gain media attention and you gain attention by massive numbers. Spreading that out over the entire northern VA area, is retarded. If the rest of the country is organized like this, where every metropolitan area has 5-6 rallies spread out, this is going to fizzle BIG time.
thphilli on April 14, 2009 at 9:05 PM
Its a shame these plans never made it out of the primaries. Its this kind of rational, principled policy suggestion that really doesn’t ever come from democrats. Too bad periods of republican leadership are wasted on either rah-rah drums of war type stuff, or the same sort of political stagflation of corruption and federal expansion that plagues the modern presidency.
ernesto on April 14, 2009 at 9:07 PM
Party on for tomorrow! I’m taking the kid to our first protest! Woo hoo!
Mojave Mark on April 14, 2009 at 9:09 PM
I see . . . and do you have personal knowledge of the “new low”?
rplat on April 14, 2009 at 9:09 PM
getalife,
I’ve never understood just what part of the Conservative philosophy that Liberals disagree with. Can you please articulate your disagreement with Conservatism?
DerKrieger on April 14, 2009 at 9:12 PM
When in doubt, blame FOX news. A dumb lib’s credo.
anniekc on April 14, 2009 at 9:13 PM
(getalife)Can you please articulate your disagreement with Conservatism?
DerKrieger on April 14, 2009 at 9:12 PM
Nope. Probably not.
kingsjester on April 14, 2009 at 9:15 PM
I’m looking forward to the Houston Tea Party- Downtown! I’ve got my Obama/Carter T-shirt. I’ll definitely be getting the looks especially from ACORN since I’m of color! Let’s give ‘em hell!
youngO on April 14, 2009 at 9:17 PM
I love Fox News, its the only news channel I watch, unless I want a laugh over at MSNBC. But seriously, they need to drop the entire “fair and balanced” shtick when they are promoting this tea party event every commercial break and in half of the news segments.
thphilli on April 14, 2009 at 9:17 PM
getalife
I have some therapy for you….
http://30sleeps.com/blog/2008/03/09/how-to-get-a-life/
———–
How to Get a Life
by Brad Bollenbach, March 9, 2008
Getalife….please read further….maybe helpful
———–
Or maybe you can come to a TEA PARTY and try to understand the real meaning. But then again you are just a TOOL of the NUTROOT machine.
scruplesrx on April 14, 2009 at 9:17 PM
Is Axelrod paying overtime today so that you could be the first to post your BS and screw up another thread?
Trying to get a promotion?
Knucklehead on April 14, 2009 at 9:18 PM
They weren’t as patriotic back then.
eea on April 14, 2009 at 9:19 PM
Yeah, the Dallas area has little ones all over tomorrow too, with the ‘main one’ tomorrow night. Good grief, people, do ONE in a central geographic area, otherwise we’ll see footage of one little one as though that’s all there was.
Nitwits.
Midas on April 14, 2009 at 9:23 PM
I’ll see you there! I’ll be the one in the Ronald Reagan t-shirt! Hey, if you’re a person of color we need to let Geraldo Rivera know about it because once again HE’S WRONG!
alwaysright43 on April 14, 2009 at 9:23 PM
I think he would have to say something along the lines of:
Orthodox conservatism leaves much to be desired in the realm of politics, moreso than in times past, because its absolutist stance on issues of the role and scope of government can keep it from reacting to genuine issues of severe discrimination, insane disregard for consumers, and issues of international cooperation.
Granted, there are many, many instances of liberals crying wolf and/or overreaching on some deep distrust of a system that doesn’t provide a helping hand from cradle to grave. I don’t believe i harbor any orthodox liberal views as absolute principle. i do, however, often find the orthodox conservative position wanting, if in anything in that it doesn’t offer much latitude for solving serious issues.
ernesto on April 14, 2009 at 9:23 PM
Is the main one going to be held at Victory Park?
carbon_footprint on April 14, 2009 at 9:25 PM
getalife, wasn’t the screed of the left “dissent is patriotic” just a few monthas ago? Why is it that the left or dems can march, protest or disagree with the right and its OK, but when the tables are turned it’s now suddenly wrong? Please explain this.
ChicagoBlues on April 14, 2009 at 9:27 PM
getalife: wow! You did it dude! You hijacked and entire thread and made it about YOU. Now, please Get a Life! and go away.
katablog.com on April 14, 2009 at 9:30 PM
A lot of unpatriotic people at the bottom 50% who barely pay taxes. Shameful lot who should hang their heads low. Sorry, I’m just following Joe Biden’s “logic” on the subject.
What the IRS has become is sickening. FLAT TAX. Everyone pays 10-15%. Let’s see how much the lower income people love Big Government once they are forced to pay for it too.
Stickeehands on April 14, 2009 at 9:30 PM
Pasting the same message, word for word, on post after post, in my simple-minded opinion, should qualify as spamming.
Does the tea party phenomenon strike that much fear into your pitiful soul?
Good.
Pardon me, your fear is showing.
hillbillyjim on April 14, 2009 at 9:31 PM
Media will suppress the actual turnout numbers. Don’t be discouraged.
SouthernGent on April 14, 2009 at 9:33 PM
I never understood why more people can’t get behind the very simple idea of a flat tax where everyone pays the same rate. It’s easy to comply with and it’s fair. I know why politicians don’t like it, but why don’t taxpayers like it?
People love getting a rebate check for some reason. I try and tell my friends that they are giving Uncle Sam an interest free loan, but they don’t get it, they think the government is giving them money instead of paying back something that they took too much of in the first place. I seriously believe that a flat tax or something like it could be an election winner in 2010 if the GOP can talk past the media filter and straight to the voters. How hard of a message is it? “Pay 5% of your income every week instead of your current 30% with a yearly refund after you fill out this pile of paperwork and you can know that everyone is paying the exact same ammount. If we can’t fund the government obligations on that, we either have to cut services or raise taxes. Tell us which you would have us do, and we’ll do it.”
Simple common sense is looking more and more like the “hope and change” we were falsely promised a few short months ago.
Mord on April 14, 2009 at 9:33 PM
getalife: GETALIFE!!
PaCadle on April 14, 2009 at 9:34 PM
True.
I only regret that I have but one paycheck to give up for my country!
jgapinoy on April 14, 2009 at 9:35 PM
If only they would promote worthwhile groups like the Mainstream Media did with Cindy (crazy bitch) Sheehan and code pink.
I’m sorry I had my penis caught in a blender … did I say anything stupid while I was in shock?
Stickeehands on April 14, 2009 at 9:35 PM
Because most taxpayers like it that the rich pay most of their bills.
jgapinoy on April 14, 2009 at 9:36 PM
I’m surprised by getalife’s silence since the opening usual blather she/he/it spews. I defend any person’s right to assemble in peaceful protest, left or right, to voice dissent, agreement or other opinion. I will stand guard over the citizen who stands up for thier right to redress a grievance. getalife, F*&k @ff.
ChicagoBlues on April 14, 2009 at 9:37 PM
It’s gonna be a blast, I took a vacation day from work to make this gig, videocamera in hand. I was kind of hoping the open border, illegal immigrants rights, code pink anti America folks will show up to counter, but being the puzzys they are, they will all sit home waiting for the unemployment checks and blogging the anti love on Kos. Cool, more beer for the rest of us scary white folks! Be there and force the MSM to acknowledge it!
GlocknRoll on April 14, 2009 at 9:37 PM
getalife, F*&k @ff.
ChicagoBlues on April 14, 2009 at 9:37 PM
Thank You +1000
GlocknRoll on April 14, 2009 at 9:39 PM
The idiocy is clearly indicative of a mole; a plant. getalife is here to stir up our emotions; heh, heh; deny it AP…
PaCadle on April 14, 2009 at 9:39 PM
OT. Breaking. Pirates have attacked another US ship
Guardian on April 14, 2009 at 9:41 PM
I agree with you. This is where the hard work comes on the part of the GOP leadership. They need to make it easy for people to understand how their taxes and costs have gone up.
Illustrate how much FICA, Medicaid, State tax, federal tax,etc. come out of every 10K in 2009 versus 2007 or 2008. Everyone can relate to that figure and multiply accordingly.
People start getting antsy when they discover they have been conned or had.
On a lighter note I remember when I bought into a camera club a long time ago.. boy I was mad and my wife still teases me on occasion about that! The idea is the same though.
Bradky on April 14, 2009 at 9:41 PM
I guess the SEALS are going to have to kill more ‘unlicensed sea merchants’.
HornetSting on April 14, 2009 at 9:42 PM
Seems to me that the government should operate strictly within the guidelines set forth by the Constitution. As far as offering latitude for solving serious issues, when the government isn’t involved in things it isn’t constitutionally obligated to address, the states and the people have plenty of latitude to solve serious issues.
jimmy2shoes on April 14, 2009 at 9:43 PM
I’ve cooled off now, headlines state the ship repelled the attack, if that’s true, score one for the US Merchant Marine Seamen!
ChicagoBlues on April 14, 2009 at 9:45 PM
They are messing with my people!!!! F tHEM
blatantblue on April 14, 2009 at 9:46 PM
the raw tax numbers are meaningless. enough of the people are convinced they need the services these taxes pay for. you’ve gotta convince them that the tough love is the best kind.
ernesto on April 14, 2009 at 9:46 PM
This is what real grass roots looks like. Hence the name “grass roots” pops up everywhere at once. It’s not a Soros/ANSWER potted plant like we saw from the left in recent years.
bagoh20 on April 14, 2009 at 9:48 PM
Before the Constitution was amended to allow proportional taxation, the flat tax was the ONLY way the federal government could directly tax people. Before that it was apportioned per capita and handed to the States to figure out so that the purse strings for the federal government would be held by the States. That was a check in the old check and balance system.
We became ‘progressive’ and did away with that.
Notice the progress in the piles of regulations and ‘incentives’ on your life via the tax code? We were warned about this at the founding. Unable to listen to wisdom we took a step backwards to where aristocrats would decide who pays and how much. Lovely, no?
ajacksonian on April 14, 2009 at 9:48 PM
I don’t agree with this assessment. I think that people get numb to billions, trillions, etc. being thrown around. Show them how they have been impacted to provide these services that many are not “poor enough” to qualify for and I think you begin to get traction.
Bradky on April 14, 2009 at 9:49 PM
in theory, im sure thats the most effective way to look at it. but real policy is messier. urban policy is messier. mass transit and public education are messy. sick poor people are messy.
the kinds of state and local governments that are necessary for that to work…the civilly active populace…they dont exist. maybe in new hampshire, or out west, but not in the cities. passive conservative government is almost always tempered when applied to the true urban environment. and this its tough to argue for “conservative principles” 100% of the time in terms of actual policy.
ernesto on April 14, 2009 at 9:51 PM
I’m convinced that most people really have no clue exactly how large 1 billion, let alone 1 trillion is.
jimmy2shoes on April 14, 2009 at 9:51 PM
I went through this last elections, but I was helping out family in Puerto Rico. I hope I am wrong and people just want to “raise the roof” and create awareness of the problem.
In PR, protagonism was part of the problem, someone trying to run over coordinators in all the island and that posed a serious situation with me. Over here I offered my help since I was fresh out of the situation (FB page, I prepared a website, phone calls and such). Kewl (x fingers) everything flows well here tomorrow. Gossip was another one, but then again I am not in the loop. Here locations are pretty evened out and there are cities that surprised me, I did not expect tea parties in partly rural areas where land is shared with Amish families.
About FOX, in part I am glad that they are giving it significant coverage–because let’s face it, the MSM won’t. Wonder where Rush’s gonna go or what he is gonna do! OTOH, this might dwindle potential tea partygoers because they might want to stay at home and not represent. I hope that is not the case, then again the cities being covered (so far) are too large.
ProudPalinFan on April 14, 2009 at 9:52 PM
Fox News Rocks!
redridinghood on April 14, 2009 at 9:53 PM
Fo’realz? Well, bring it on!
ProudPalinFan on April 14, 2009 at 9:53 PM
this is why I think making it easy to understand how much their taxes have gone up as it impacts their paycheck has a more meaningful impact. I remember when Chrysler got a one billion dollar bailout about 30 years ago. Everyone was stunned at that much money. Now, chickenfeed…
Bradky on April 14, 2009 at 9:54 PM
Smile for the DHS cameras you crazy kids.
getalife on April 14, 2009 at 9:54 PM
I see your point, but little by little good intentions turn into dependency programs, which turn into expectations of continuous support, leading to class warfare, and eventually, if we’re not careful, actual civil unrest and violence. At some point, no matter how difficult and seemingly unjust, enablement has to stop.
jimmy2shoes on April 14, 2009 at 9:57 PM
Heh. I took tomorrow off, it was just going to be me by my lonesome going to our party. Before I left the office today, I printed out that ‘fact based’ DHS report on ‘right wing extremism’ and gave it to hubby to read when I made it home.
He’s decided to come with me tomorrow, all of a sudden. I guess he’s finally had enough…
I’m excited to be going, and hope we see THOUSANDS on the event site. And like Artist said, I hope there are MILLIONS on the streets.
It’s now or never, America.
koz on April 14, 2009 at 9:57 PM
*listening to Hannity*
Tee hee hee, Bainbridge was a comin’ and they smoked themselves in their lil’ holes!
I SAY CUT ANY AND EVERY FOOD, FUNDS AND HELP FOR AFRICA. Possibility of loss of American (or any other country) life so that Africans pay us back like this?
Sorry, I cannot stand the TV ads asking for help for African aid.
ProudPalinFan on April 14, 2009 at 9:57 PM
of course i agree with you. which is why i comment here instead of at huffpo or kos. cant stand it over there :-)
ernesto on April 14, 2009 at 9:59 PM
I will. So will others. No fear.
koz on April 14, 2009 at 9:59 PM
Finally! We passed the income tax the same year we passed the Federal Reserve Act. Coincidence? No, because if you have to create debt, which was the intent of the FRA, you need someone to pay it, and it’s not going to be paid by the politicians or the international banking cartel that created the Fed.
Jefferson knew the evils of central banks, one of the reasons people were fleeing to the states. Nations in Europe became enslaved to the banksters:
How prescient. The Fed, at this very moment is dictating the terms of our surrender to their well orchestrated crisis. As Jefferson noted, central banks are perfectly capable of determining a nations economic destiny. They inflate, they burst, they deflate, they use our tax subsidized bailouts (socializing their losses, something the expressly planned on the doing when the Fed was masterminded on Jekyll Island) to buy up more banks and real assets like gold, property, etc. This is an evil scheme.
The Fed and their income tax need to be abolished.
True_King on April 14, 2009 at 10:00 PM
cnn.com
scruplesrx on April 14, 2009 at 10:00 PM
That’s two things we agree on.
jimmy2shoes on April 14, 2009 at 10:00 PM
I wonder what the exact percentage of a dollar is actually left after all the federal and state income tax, FICA, Ad valorem, property, sales, capital gains, inheritance, gasoline, and other taxes are actually tabulated. Has anyone ever seen a breakdown of this?
jimmy2shoes on April 14, 2009 at 10:05 PM
I’ve never broken it down to that level but did figure out the percentage of social security, medicare, state, local, and came up with about 19% of every dollar in 2007 – with Obama’s plans it appears that will rise to 25% if he gets everything he wants.
the GOP should have a section on its site that gives people the methods to calculate their payouts.
Bradky on April 14, 2009 at 10:08 PM
Bitch all you want, it is what it is, so live with it or get out.
foxone on April 14, 2009 at 10:09 PM
What politican ever won an election by saying they would raise taxes if people elected them? It’s the most practical display of displeasure of an administration that came to power on a promise to cut taxes and then exploded our budget for generations to come. Democrats are all for taxes because they don’t plan on paying any taxes.
Herb on April 14, 2009 at 10:15 PM
I’d like to see a very detailed breakdown to the point of even corporate income tax that is eventually passed down to the consumer. The actual real number has to be plus 50%.
jimmy2shoes on April 14, 2009 at 10:16 PM
The guy actually made the first post on this thread. I wonder if there’s a way to count how many he makes in a day? Now, granted, “Fox is teh evl!!!” doesn’t exactly reflect a gigantic amount of time frittered away on thought. But you’re still talking about constant attention and reflexive reaction.
So, try to hold back your gorge for a moment and just imagine what might be behind that keyboard.
…A full-grown, reasonably intelligent person with a family and a real job? Seriously; what are the odds here?
logis on April 14, 2009 at 10:17 PM
Geataclue is a chick or an it, but not a dude.
Guardian on April 14, 2009 at 10:19 PM
I’d imagine true conservatives would celebrate tax rates returning to what they were under reagan, rather than teabagging all over the place.
benny shakar on April 14, 2009 at 10:31 PM
True conservatives would celebrate a renewed interest in the Constitution taking place in Washington.
jimmy2shoes on April 14, 2009 at 10:46 PM
Hey, after we’ve been sent to the incinerators, they will have more time to focus on your sexual deviancy… You and Chris Matthews will be great bunk mates…
Upstater85 on April 14, 2009 at 11:09 PM
Hmmm… what’s that song? Oh, yeah Imagine…
Imagine there’s no Heaven
It’s easy if you try
No way JFK sent us to Nam…
Upstater85 on April 14, 2009 at 11:12 PM
I turned my 1040 into it’s own Tea Party. After signing on the dotted line I wrote a check for the amount of our refund…..payable to the NRA. Ain’t America grand!
Limerick on April 14, 2009 at 11:20 PM
Mord on April 14, 2009 at 9:33 PM
Well put, but unfortunately the tax system isn’t about providing revenue to the federal government, it’s about power. The power to tax is not only the power to destroy but the power to engineer society by incentivizing certain behaviors while discouraging others.
Most politicians would never give up this power in favor of a more flat, fair and simple tax system.
sdun1 on April 14, 2009 at 11:39 PM
Yesterday was Tax Free Day. The average American worker had to work from Jan 1 to April 13 just to pay for their share of taxes. We work approx 38 days to pay Federal/State taxes, another 27 to pay payroll taxes. Don’t know about you, but I worked hard those days. Sometimes not even taking a coffee break! I want my 3 1/2 months back!
Oh, and American taxpayers will spend more on taxes this year than housing, food, and clothing combined.
I do NOT care who shows up at tomorrow’s Tea Party rally; MSM, ACORN, etc. I will be there. I will be there to protest the out-of-control spending in Washington.
TN Mom on April 15, 2009 at 12:05 AM
Gonna be at the Alamo tomorrow.
I will smile for those DHS cameras. Hope they get a good shot of my mug.
armygirl on April 15, 2009 at 12:10 AM
Oh, and I will protest obama’s healthcare. If it is so important, why did they have to sneek it in the stimulus?
I will protest the 8% increase in the Spending Bill. Everyone I know is cutting expenses, except congress.
I will protest Obama/Pelosi/Reid refusing to even listen to GOP alternatives. Their “I Won, so I trump you” and “Yes, we wrote the bill, yes, we won the election” shows washington does not care about me</em>. That’s a blatent slap-in-the-face to all GOP. They don’t care what I need, what I want, they only care about themselves.
TN Mom on April 15, 2009 at 12:15 AM
Uh, how far is the Alamo from Crawford? (3 hours???)
I think you guys should all drive over to Crawford instead… You’ll definitely get your media coverage…
Upstater85 on April 15, 2009 at 12:19 AM
I suppose a slingshot is considered a weapon, but the thought of an acorn in a slingshot headed for a ACORN seems kind of special.
Dasher on April 15, 2009 at 12:55 AM
Tomorrow will be my first protest- quite an accomplishment given I live near “Little Beirut” where demonstrations are an every other day (at least!) event. As marching around with a placard sign is just too hippie for me to swallow, I’ve elected to engage in a little capitalism and put my message on a customized T-Shirt instead:
Federalism
NOT
Socialism
If anything of note happens in Portland Oregon I’ll let you know.
Browncoatone on April 15, 2009 at 1:13 AM
But, but… All those oh-so-smart liberals say republicans hate poor people… How did the tax burden on the lowest earners get even lower with all those awful republicans running things from 2001-2005?
(however, please don’t mistake my sarcasm for approval of redistribution)
innominatus on April 15, 2009 at 1:20 AM
People can’t make it to one big central location. Easier to have something somewhat nearby.
Plus don’t discount the value of being able to have something where your (relatively near) neighbors can see it.
It isn’t all about convincing the MSM. It’s also about educating other people.
Maybe there will be a big one in D.C. on July 4th. Maybe not, I don’t know. But these have already started – they already had a round of them, and this is the second round.
Alana on April 15, 2009 at 2:02 AM
I love both ideas of either a FLAT TAX or a FAIR TAX. I only have one reservation with the FAIR TAX. I know in it’s inception it starts out flat, but i believe the income tax did also. I just worry that we may go down the road of Alcohol or tobacco needs a higher tax and baby food shouldn’t be taxed. If that where to happen we would just be shifting the IRS mess to businesses with the FAIR TAX.
lwssdd on April 15, 2009 at 4:24 AM
It isn’t just what you pay to various government agency’s. Oh no. It’s built into everything you buy.
Take a loaf of bread. Bread is basically wheat. A little salt, some water, yeast, but, basically ground wheat. A bushel of wheat is roughly 60 pounds of wheat. Say it sells for $6.00 a bushel. That’s 10 cents a pound. A loaf weighs maybe two pounds. That’s 20 cents worth of wheat. But, you pay way more than that. Why?
The farmer makes his living selling wheat at $6.00 a bushel. Out of that $6.00 he pays his expenses to farm, including his taxes. It also includes his profit, if any.
He sells to a miller-baker who pays the $6.00. (We’ll make this simple) So, if you think about it, It’s the miller/baker that actually pays for everything that the farmer does. The miller/baker grinds the wheat and bakes, packages and delivers the bread. They sell it to a supermarket at a wholesale price per loaf. The wholesale price includes all the miller/baker’s cost to produce and deliver the loaf, including the taxes they pay.
The supermarket marks the loaf up and sells it to you. The price you pay covers the cost of the loaf to the supermarket as well as all their expenses including the taxes they pay.
As the end user (eating a piece of bread), you pay the farmers taxes, the miller/bakers taxes, and the supermarkets taxes, along with the actual production costs of the loaf of bread.
Only the end user can pay those taxes. Everyone else passes them along as a built-in cost to you. It doesn’t matter whether it’s a loaf of bread, a bag of potatoes, a book, a stereo or a car. The end user and only the end user can pay all of the taxes that go into everything that you buy.
So, you not only pay all those taxes you asked about. You pay the taxes for everybody that provides you with a good or service.
This also explains why it’s impossible for the government to punish a business by raising it’s taxes. The only people the government can possibly harm by raising taxes are the end users of whatever good or service that business produces.
trigon on April 15, 2009 at 4:46 AM
No, he would have never said anything that coherrent. So speak for yourself. But as coherrent as your comment was it did not answer DerKrieger’s question.
You expressed your concerns about where you think conservatism fails and I could easily respond to that but you didn’t address the basic principles of conservatism. Your response is boilerplate. Can you even list the principles of conservatism? My guess is that you’ll have to google them. Most arguments against conservatism stem from preconceived notions of its evil without even addressing its principles.
shick on April 15, 2009 at 6:24 AM
Did you even bother to watch the video in this post? I don’t think so.
You have your convictions and that’s enough for you.
Get your fingers out of your ears, your head out of the sand and listen to it.
shick on April 15, 2009 at 6:35 AM
Correct. Which is why there should be absolutely no corporate income taxes.
jimmy2shoes on April 15, 2009 at 6:41 AM
Great…and maddening….video. What the anti-tea party crowd can’t or won’t acknowledge is that these protest are non-partisan protests against government waste, or taxation with piss-poor representation. They are nor specifically against Obama, though as a profligate spender currently in office, he gets the lion’s share of the blame. The impetus for these movements started with Bush’s pre-socialism bailouts – very unhopeychangey policies built on by the current president and congress.
At heart, the real dispute is that the tax code has become a social engineering tool to punish certain behaviors (e.g capital gains, accumulation of wealth, etc), reward others (e.g. hybrid car credit, indian hiring credit), and redistribute wealth (“cutting taxes” on the 40ish% of people that pay no income tax – a plan that the CBO has rightly categorized as direct spending, not tax cutting) – a CLEAR reversal of the founding pronciples of this country. To argue anything else is sheer folly and plainly and partisanly dishonest.
Have to go file my MA state taxes so that they can double tax my RI income, now. Cheers.
Huckabye-Romney on April 15, 2009 at 8:25 AM
YES! Preach it! Tax-happy liberals don’t understand our argument. They think we are complaining solely against their messiah.
Though Bush did some things right, he was very wrong on taxes and bailout issues.
shick on April 15, 2009 at 8:32 AM
Hello. Tea parties are not partisan. Americans in general are fed up with the pork and the bailouts and the massive spending and not being listened to by their elected officials. The news is making this a divisive issue (surprise). Unfortunately, I’m working two jobs today and that is 8am to 10pm. But I’ll be with them in spirit.
As for the income tax, these figures must be for families. Us single people in the lower brackets pay a whole lot more.
scalleywag on April 15, 2009 at 8:36 AM
“America will never be destroyed from outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.”
Abraham Lincoln
Col.John Wm. Reed on April 15, 2009 at 8:38 AM
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
Thomas Jefferson
Not Gonna be quiet any longer
Col.John Wm. Reed on April 15, 2009 at 8:43 AM
Exactly! It’s always all about Obama. They just can’t see that even democrats are fed up with this outlandish spending, and acknowledging that doesn’t help them make the republicans look bad, so they ignore it. The best thing that can happen today is for media outlets to find democrats are attending tea parties right along side the republicans. That would be worth its weight in gold.
scalleywag on April 15, 2009 at 8:44 AM
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