Quote of the day
posted at 10:30 pm on April 13, 2009 by Allahpundit
“A Catholic German bishop has come under fire for his remarks condemning atheists. In a sermon given on Easter Sunday, the bishop of Augsburg, Walter Mixa, warned of rising atheism in Germany. ‘Wherever God is denied or fought against, there people and their dignity will soon be denied and held in disregard,’ he said in the sermon. He also said that ‘a society without God is hell on earth’ and quoted the Russian author Fyodor Dostoyevsky: ‘If God does not exist, everything is permitted.’
Most controversially, he linked the Nazi and Communist crimes to atheism. ‘In the last century, the godless regimes of Nazism and Communism, with their penal camps, their secret police and their mass murder, proved in a terrible way the inhumanity of atheism in practice.’ Christians and the Church were always the subject of ‘special persecution’ under these systems, he said.”









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I “reject God” (not actually reject as how can I reject God or anything else, like little green men from Mars, that I don’t believe even exists in reality) and I sure the HELL don’t choice Islam, no way, no how, no time, no place!
Although, if the Europeans would go a little “Pope Urban II”, I might be persuaded to “Come to Christ”.
MB4 on April 14, 2009 at 12:54 AM
You mean, this isn’t hell and Allah isn’t already torturing us with Green rooms and Troll rooms?
Kini on April 14, 2009 at 12:55 AM
Comparing “religion” to “atheism” is like comparing “having an ideology” to “believing in nothing”. It’s not about quantity, it’s about quality. It’s about having the right religion, or ideology. Even though some of our founding fathers were non-believers, they were all generally on board with the set of values transmitted by the Christian faith. Remember, “we hold these truths to be self-evident“? It meant that we created a Christian nation, not because we all agreed Jesus was divine, but because we all agreed he was right.
joe_doufu on April 14, 2009 at 12:55 AM
Hey, you did get nominated for the Green room… ;)
Upstater85 on April 14, 2009 at 12:56 AM
I would actually classify many of our modern secular movements are religious in nature (or at least they seem to have the same structure)
Upstater85 on April 14, 2009 at 12:57 AM
are=as
Upstater85 on April 14, 2009 at 12:58 AM
Yes, I did and thanks for putting my name in. :)
I remember a movie called Ice Pirates, where the bad guys, the atheists, didn’t hurt the monks.
As one said to the other, just in case there really is a God.
Kini on April 14, 2009 at 12:59 AM
I take second place to no one on Hotair in being anti-Islam. You sure must have missed a awful lot of my posts over the last many moons.
MB4 on April 14, 2009 at 1:00 AM
Heh. There are some silly things we investigate, but the point of scientific inquiry is to investigate everywhere one’s naturally led. Sometimes important insights to unrelated fields of study are discovered that way. That said, it would be nice if government funding were not so politicized, but that’s never going to happen.
BryanS on April 14, 2009 at 1:01 AM
For someone so intelligent, that someone for whom blind faith isn’t enough, asking them to define exactly that, is patently absurd.
If God does not exist, everything is permitted
Speakup on April 14, 2009 at 1:01 AM
Please note that he said “if God doesn’t exist” not “if nobody believes in God”.
Ortzinator on April 14, 2009 at 1:02 AM
For someone so intelligent, that someone for whom blind faith isn’t enough, asking them to define exactly that, is patently absurd.
If God does not exist, everything is permitted
Speakup on April 14, 2009 at 1:02 AM
Yes, I don’t discourage the “real” sciences; however, I think that the Scientific community may need to start taking a very long look deep inside themselves. Not so long ago philosophy and ethics (and dare I say faith) were strongly connected to the sciences; however, in recent years, it would seem many scientists (or at least their grad-students…) believe that they themselves constitute SCIENCE…
Upstater85 on April 14, 2009 at 1:04 AM
I have always had a “Love/Hate relationship” with being mostly of German background. wink.
MB4 on April 14, 2009 at 1:08 AM
Petunia, I am a practicing Latin Rite Roman Catholic; just for reference, and that was such a beautiful post. Thank you for sharing.
Branch Rickey on April 14, 2009 at 1:09 AM
Hi, MB4. I don’t post here alot but have been a poster for about two years.
You and I have batted around the God debate once or twice. Always nicely, though.
I also know you doink hardballs at Islam, too.
My point is that this (HotAir) is a safe place to voice your displeasure or disbelief.
When you have (I’m not meaning you personally) Islam breathing down your neck, upholding the atheistic belief won’t mean much to most anti-theists.
Skidd on April 14, 2009 at 1:09 AM
And who can argue? An atheist individual in a Christian society is protected by the morality of his neighbors. In an atheist society, there is no such protection, as anyone familiar with Mao’s China or Stalin’s Russia would attest.
The Other McCain on April 14, 2009 at 1:11 AM
Morals external to God? I don’t think I understand you. That sometimes happens because my religon is pretty different in our understanding of who God is.
Morals are eternal. God is eternal. All truth comes from God and truth is eternal. I don’t really get “external” there is nothing without God. It must be a difference in the way our traditions teach. That just doesn’t compute in my brain. Nothing is without God. We have in us a divine nature that comes from God who is our Father. Therefore anything good in us comes from God.
petunia on April 14, 2009 at 1:12 AM
Why Catholics Like Einstein
There have been many Catholic Priest Scientists.
Here’s one of my favs
Kini on April 14, 2009 at 1:13 AM
Oh my. I hope Charles Johnson isn’t upset over this.
Drum on April 14, 2009 at 1:14 AM
These Atheist/Christian threads are so funny. So many spend so much time and basically accomplish absolutely nothing. Not likely an converts to either side. Not likely a single one!
But at least it keeps the Atheists from being out on one of their raping and pillaging rampages and it keeps the Christians from going over to the poor side of town and giving away all of their families money and processions.
MB4 on April 14, 2009 at 1:14 AM
And in an Islamic society, if you are a woman do not dare let yourself been seen as such since you will be harshly punished for “tempting” your neighbors. I suppose it’s round deux for arguing over whether atheists can have morals
BryanS on April 14, 2009 at 1:15 AM
People oppress people, communism, religion, those are just some of the tools people use to accomplish the control of the masses.
Speakup on April 14, 2009 at 1:16 AM
He can’t ban anyone here, he’s confined to the realm of green footballs.
Let the loathing begin.
Kini on April 14, 2009 at 1:17 AM
Heh. They keep distracting us with their talk if these “morals” things just long enough to keep me from my dastardly deeds. How cunning of them!
BryanS on April 14, 2009 at 1:17 AM
Umm, hmm. Are any of the people molested by Catholic priests available for comment?
paul006 on April 14, 2009 at 1:22 AM
No, not at all, but it does place the burden of proof.
MB4 on April 14, 2009 at 1:23 AM
I often wonder the same thing. Do these posts have any effect? But these posts are the only ones that coax me to post.
God is so apparent to me, so real to me, I am persuaded to debate with people who want Him to not be real.
I know that I most likely never have any effect on making people think about Him more seriously.
Still, I post. Many others do, also.
Goodnight all.
Skidd on April 14, 2009 at 1:23 AM
Atheism, as an organizing social principle rather than a personal belief system, faces the same problem as the various collectivist nightmares that plagued the world throughout the 20th century: it draws up elaborate systems that appear sound in theory, but bear little resemblance to what actual human beings are prone to do. Your point about the savage power of the Koran, pitted against the watery bromides of dying post-Christian Europe, could be extended to cover every nation and culture throughout human history. None of them has ever assembled itself into a determined atheist society governed by pure Reason. All of them have incorporated religious concepts and traditions, some of them considerably less benign than others. Even the most well-meaning and enlightened civilizations have found it difficult to express their enlightenment without reference to divine authority. The aggressively anti-religious, “scientifically designed” societies of the 20th century have been ghastly horror shows.
I don’t believe this is because atheism is intrinsically vicious, or that atheists inevitable degenerate into fascism or communism. Individual atheists are among the most thoughtful philosophers and critics of social decay, as you can see from Allahpundit’s writing, or many of the posts on this comment thread. The atheist philosopher takes pride in reasoning his way to elevated moral beliefs, and the principles of a just society, rather than accepting the principles presented by a religious tradition. It’s interesting that the atheists tend to arrive at very similar conclusions about what it means to be just and virtuous.
The problem with atheism as an organizing foundation for a society is that it denies the hunger of many – perhaps, inevitably, most – of the citizens for a spiritual dimension in their lives. They will seek it out elsewhere if the popular culture does not provide it, and if the official posture of the government is hostile to all religion (instead of equally respectful of all religions) the religious community will increasingly see itself as alienated from the government. This never leads anywhere good, but it’s a story that repeats itself over and over again, every time self-appointed rationalists impose a manufactured set of government policies over a populace that refuses to part with its faith. You can see it in the home-church movement in China, the religious underground that opposes Castro in Cuba, the faith traditions Communist Russia never quite managed to destroy completely, the Christian and Jewish resistance to Nazi Germany… and, on a darker note, the increasingly long Islamic shadow spreading across Europe. The atheist philosopher is wise to remember that the citizens will never give up their religion, and make peace with this truth. When the first men set foot on a world that orbits a distant star, at least one of them is going to be wearing a crucifix or Star of David under his spacesuit.
As to exactly why the religious traditions of the West have been such an important part of its civic virtue: I think religion provides a powerful moral language that helps citizens and lawmakers interact with each other efficiently. Certainly a well-spoken atheist could make a powerful, logical case for why murder is wrong, but it’s much faster and more convenient to embrace the religious injunction against murder – thou shalt not kill – and move on to more complex questions. It’s like writing a subroutine for a computer program. Why spend hours of mental energy building that ironclad, coldly logical case against murder when you can just invoke Class THOU.SHALT.NOT.KILL? A government born from the consensus of enlightened religious traditions, building up from the faith and heartfelt beliefs of its citizens, will always be more solidly grounded and legitimately democratic than a government that dictates politically-designed morality through 10,000 page budgets and hundred-volume codes of law.
Also, religious belief provides one key ingredient that is usually missing from the atheist, materialist society: humility. It’s something you’re not surprised to find is scarce among people who congratulate themselves on having the superior wisdom and virtue to micro-manage trillion dollar economies, or write laws telling banks who they are morally obliged to loan money to. Religious faith among political leaders hardly guarantees wisdom, or even proper personal behavior, but if that faith is heartfelt, it can at least provide a dash of humility that they are highly unlikely to acquire anywhere else. I don’t think a just leader must wholeheartedly believe that a Supreme Being sits in judgment over him… but I do think the country benefits if he behaves as if he believes it.
Doctor Zero on April 14, 2009 at 1:23 AM
Anyone can have morals. This sounds tacky, but you wake up one day and say
“I want to be a nice person”
or whatever morals you find valuable. The problem is that often we end up with morals coming for Mao’s book… More recently we have the happy face morals. Nothing that is momentarily painful should be allowed. I think that if one has a reasonable connection to their non-secular religion, it is often easier for them to stay grounded in the morals that have worked well for humans. For those who aren’t connected to an organized group, it can be harder (but not impossible). Finally, for those that are well-grounded to a secular-religiously-structured group, well, we better hope they are conservatives (and they tend not to be)…
Upstater85 on April 14, 2009 at 1:25 AM
In what way?
Speakup on April 14, 2009 at 1:27 AM
I think that Francis Schaeffer does the best job of debunking why atheists can’t really be moral. Any vestige of morality felt by the atheist comes because God has written his law on his heart. Other than that it’s always the “some guy said” nonsense. All manmade religions boil down to “some guy said.”
Mojave Mark on April 14, 2009 at 1:31 AM
Take a look at the back and forth between brotherbell and me mostly on page two–most of what I’d say to the question of whether atheists have morals will be there. In summary, there is no reason an atheist cannot live by a moral code that values improving the life of those in the community they live in.
BryanS on April 14, 2009 at 1:31 AM
Your (I’m not meaning you personally) believe in God won’t stop a Muslim lawyer of sword or AK-47 (which they never could have invented themselves, in all likelihood) any better than my non-believe in the “Invisible Guy in the Sky” will.
MB4 on April 14, 2009 at 1:33 AM
The whole pied piper routine by Charles Johnson and Charles Johnson’s mini-me (AllahP) is very very sad. Anytime a person condemns themselves to eternal death, and fails to repent before it is too late, it is very sad. Your time may come at any moment after all. I’d expect it from Charles Sr., he’s approaching full-blown ‘One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest’… but AllahP, not so much.
May God have mercy on all your souls when your time comes.
SilverStar830 on April 14, 2009 at 1:33 AM
Thanks.
Upstater85 on April 14, 2009 at 1:35 AM
One last thing before I go beddy-pie.
Islam is going to control Europe. Christianity formed modern Europe. But Europe has now rejected Christianity. So, because there is no vaccum in this world, something has to replace it.
Islam will. Not atheism, new-age, or any eastern religion. Islam has the sword and will continue to cry loudly to get it’s way–and it most definitely is getting it’s way.
When crying won’t work as fast as they want it to, their sword will take over.
Because Europe rejected Chrisitanity, it’s getting Isalm.
Skidd on April 14, 2009 at 1:36 AM
A bit judgmental, no?
BryanS on April 14, 2009 at 1:37 AM
I like to thing of myself as one who “doinks” rhetorical “hardballs”, but not too hard, at non-Islamic believers, but who “doinks” rhetorical IED’s, WMD’s, and any other damned thing I can get hold of, at Muslims.
MB4 on April 14, 2009 at 1:37 AM
Who are you to tell “God” what to do? He’ll do what he goddamn pleases.
LevStrauss on April 14, 2009 at 1:40 AM
No, but many Chrisitans (a much higher percentage than atheists) are willing to die for their faith.
Because we believe in something–more specifically, SOMEONE.
Someone who promises that though our bodies will die, we won’t die. We Christians believe in that promise from Christ Jesus because we believe in Him.
Skidd on April 14, 2009 at 1:42 AM
The Japanese believed in their emperor Hirohito as a god incarnate, but despite their fanaticism we still won.
BryanS on April 14, 2009 at 1:45 AM
Sleep well Skidd, you have earned it as it looks like you have at least kept ByranS away from committing any further dastardly deeds, at least for a while.
MB4 on April 14, 2009 at 1:48 AM
OK, but that was “someone.” Further, I don’t think I can agree with what Skidd is implying. I think that many atheists believe in themselves or if they are progressive leaning, they believe in mankind…
Upstater85 on April 14, 2009 at 1:48 AM
Key indeed. Well said.
Maquis on April 14, 2009 at 1:49 AM
What’s with these dastardly deeds (rape and pillaging)? Did I miss something?
Upstater85 on April 14, 2009 at 1:49 AM
The Japanese weren’t fighting against atheists. They were fighting a predominatly Christian worldview.
We’re not exactly wilting lilies. (I’m using a bad metaphor. Sorry).
Skidd on April 14, 2009 at 1:49 AM
That’s right we are human. Religious people are too. What is your point? Atheists aren’t claiming divine knowledge or claiming to know the secrets of the universe. I know I have made mistakes. I don’t need a Levantine tribal scapegoat belief set to absolve my errors… I need to make good on any damage or hurt I have caused and learn my lessons.
Here is the motivation… doing good makes me feel better. Doing bad makes me feel bad. I know what I have done as much as any ‘judge’ would.
lexhamfox on April 14, 2009 at 1:50 AM
I’m gone. No one’s gonna force me to post any more–so blast away, folks.
I’ve got poles to climb tomorrow and can’t do that while I’m sleeping.
Skidd on April 14, 2009 at 1:52 AM
I think you are stuck on the idea that someone has to be believed in–mankind, oneself, whatever. That doesn’t really give me any inspiration. I think of the social norms and mores of society in a utilitarian way–they help us function as a society and that is all.
BryanS on April 14, 2009 at 1:52 AM
But isn’t that in itself “mankind.” Our social norms, if nothing else, are influenced by the existence of man.
Upstater85 on April 14, 2009 at 1:54 AM
So who tells you what bad and good are? I’m not asking to be snarky. We all know that when people progress in the name of “goodness” horrible things can happen…
Upstater85 on April 14, 2009 at 1:55 AM
Probably wouldn’t interest a person of faith like yourself, but if ever you want to join the dark side, let me know and I can open your eyes to the heathen world we atheists live in. /snark
BryanS on April 14, 2009 at 1:56 AM
Pretty sure we were fighting for vengeance–not the most Christian of values–and for our own survival as a nation. Somewhat useful for motivating a nation, I think you’d agree.
BryanS on April 14, 2009 at 1:58 AM
No way at all that I can discern.
Atheism, properly understood, is just that, not believing in a God, one or more, nothing more nor nothing less. Atheism, not someone maybe using it with an ulterior motive, has no overall organization, certainly none to speak of. No atheist Priests, no atheist Churches, no atheist Bible, no atheist Prayers. Hell atheist isn’t usually even capitalized.
MB4 on April 14, 2009 at 1:58 AM
Hmmmm, sorta like a priest who doubts his faith, but still leads his congregation.
Kini on April 14, 2009 at 1:59 AM
Uh, yeah… sound almost cult like /snarkback
And thanks for not referring to me as a religious person (shudder)
Upstater85 on April 14, 2009 at 1:59 AM
But it’s not as though I have a faith in mankind–to the contrary I have a view of it that is cautious of just what kind of people exist in society. There are some truly generous individuals, and there are some real greedy s.o.b.’s. Society is organized to promote the good characteristics and mitigate the bad ones.
BryanS on April 14, 2009 at 2:01 AM
It’s kind of like faith vs. religion…
Except, unfortunately for you, many a chic-”atheist” will start a club. unorganized atheism versus religiously-structured Atheism just doesn’t have a very nice ring to it… so all atheists and “Atheists” get lumped together…
Upstater85 on April 14, 2009 at 2:02 AM
No, not at all, but it does place the burden of proof.
MB4 on April 14, 2009 at 1:23 AM
Kini on April 14, 2009 at 2:02 AM
Yeah, sorry for the misunderstanding. I guess when I said “mankind,” I meant man and the structure that he lives in due mostly to his structuring…
Upstater85 on April 14, 2009 at 2:04 AM
Europe is still mostly Christian, more Christian than atheist anyway, and there doesn’t seem to be too much standing up to Islam there, or even in America for that matter.
MB4 on April 14, 2009 at 2:05 AM
Darn, now I won’t be able to fall asleep tonight…
Upstater85 on April 14, 2009 at 2:06 AM
That structure is the best we can do. Not great, but could be worse. I like the expression that democracy is the worst possible form of government except for all the others. It’s apropos here.
BryanS on April 14, 2009 at 2:07 AM
Couldn’t we just as easily say “If God exists, then anything can be justified and Reason can be pushed aside”? Refute this.
DaveS on April 14, 2009 at 2:08 AM
OK, Skidd isn’t here, so It’s hard for me to speak for him. But what I think Skidd meant when he used the term Christian was faith, practicing Christians. I don’t think I would call Europe a very practicing society. Maybe they are culturally Christian, but this is like saying all of my Jewish (C) friends are Jewish (R)…
(C) cultural
(R) religious
Upstater85 on April 14, 2009 at 2:09 AM
That’s as I understand Atheism also and yet it seems so important that Atheism be so much more than it really is.
I find those who need more than blind faith to be more accepting of people of Religion than the other way around.
Speakup on April 14, 2009 at 2:11 AM
:)
Scary isn’t it.
Bart Simpson tried to reason that being bad all his life could be resolved upon a death bed confession and absolution.
I don’t think it works that way.
Kini on April 14, 2009 at 2:12 AM
Humility is overrated.
Besides, I don’t see any overall difference in it, or lack of it, between atheists and believers.
MB4 on April 14, 2009 at 2:12 AM
From my understanding, he said, If no god, then no reason. You’re “saying” If god, no reason. I don’t see how these are the same…
Upstater85 on April 14, 2009 at 2:14 AM
BTW, you say “atheist, materialistic” society like they went inexorably together. I know lots of Christians who spend lots of $$$ on all manner of materialistic things, while I, myself, am for the most part, rather spartan.
MB4 on April 14, 2009 at 2:15 AM
Yeah, I don’t think it’s worth the risk… but we are risky beings…
Upstater85 on April 14, 2009 at 2:15 AM
I think the Doctors point was in demonstrating humility, in order to lead.
Kini on April 14, 2009 at 2:16 AM
Oh, oh, let’s elect Obama!
Upstater85 on April 14, 2009 at 2:17 AM
`
`
`
Are you not “claiming divine knowledge or claiming to know the secrets of the universe” when you deny the existence of God? The Agnostic professes not to know, one way or the other, but the Atheist surely claims to know, does he not?
`
While it is indeed a “good” thing to attempt to make amends for your errors, even if you are able to achieve an elusive “justice” which satisfies also the victim of your wrongdoing, you have NOT undone the wrong. It can no more be erased by reparation than a bell can be un-rung by observing a period of silence.
`
In fact, are you not setting YOURSELF up as a God, deciding what is right and wrong, what constitutes an error worthy of recompense and precisely how much, and then absolving yourself of further liability? How much would every criminal miscreant enjoy being their own judge and jury?
`
Where is the logic by which an Atheist purports to be “moral” at all? You mean you meet the standard which you alone set, you alone measure, you alone police? Wow, nice job. It must be so difficult for you . . .
`
To the determined and zealous Atheist, I can only suggest his time is best spent fooling himself, for his efforts to fool anyone else are foredoomed.
`
It’s alright, though. God will be ready whenever you are.
`
Adjoran on April 14, 2009 at 2:18 AM
You have to belong to the atheist’s club to get the details. If I told you, I, or some other atheist, would have to kill you.
MB4 on April 14, 2009 at 2:19 AM
The logical equivalent of:
Is “if not everything is permitted, god exists”. But I would say murder should not be permitted, and is not permitted because it is self evident that it would be immoral to allow murders. Since we do not need god to forbid murder, we find a contradiction to the original claim.
BryanS on April 14, 2009 at 2:20 AM
But Obama, has never demonstrated humility. Only arrogance.
Kini on April 14, 2009 at 2:20 AM
Sounds dastardly. Do you guys have a password? Secret handshake?
Upstater85 on April 14, 2009 at 2:21 AM
Funny, but Catholic bishops in Germany don’t come under fire when they say that islam is great and has brought god back into society.
The atheists and agnostics are the only allies the catholics have against the islamo-fascists. Spit on your allies, very smart. Oh well, it comes from a German, so I’m not surprised anymore. The Germans are a people of sausage eating surrender monkeys and Mixa is one of the biggest morons.
So, atheists are bad. But what about certain catholics who think their retarded cult is the one true religion (as if a “true religion” can even exist)?
“He also said that ‘a society without God is hell on earth’ and quoted the Russian author Fyodor Dostoyevsky: ‘If God does not exist, everything is permitted.’”
His “God”, of course. And Dostoyevsky was a moron as well. Feudal Japan was NOT Christian (even today Japan has a bit over 1% Christians in its population) and Christianity was outlawed, yet… it was hardly “hell on earth” (it was on the same level as the European -Christian- monarchies when it comes to oppression and dictatorship) and certainly not everything was permitted. The laws were strict and were actually enforced.
Penguin on April 14, 2009 at 2:22 AM
OK, but my point was that someone was being snarky and, well, it just wasn’t equivalent what they were “suggesting” – be Buckaroo’s view correct or not. I think YOU answered Buckaroo’s question, though.
Upstater85 on April 14, 2009 at 2:24 AM
Certainly there have been times when religion is used as justification for attaining power or subjugating others by any and all means. Clearly reason is pushed aside in favor of rationalization but none of that has to do with proving or disproving God’s existence. It proves man has choice and can use choice for good or naught. All this proves is that people are entirely capable of putting themselves or their own power above all else. When there is nothing else, nothing greater than the “self” why then would anyone consider other needs?
msmveritas on April 14, 2009 at 2:24 AM
Queen Nan: Same diff.
Upstater85 on April 14, 2009 at 2:25 AM
I certainly would not call faith an enigma. That, in fact, is about the last thing I would call it.
MB4 on April 14, 2009 at 2:27 AM
Uh, I wouldn’t want to live in Feudal Japan or Feudal Europe…
Upstater85 on April 14, 2009 at 2:27 AM
My snarkometer’s batteries may be running low…it’s getting late :)
BryanS on April 14, 2009 at 2:27 AM
Wrong. You can thank Christian leaders for that. NO matter where you go, Protestants, Catholics, they all are on the “islam is peace” course. I see a lot of atheists stand up for the German constitution, while church leaders piss on it in the name of “islam is peace”.
Penguin on April 14, 2009 at 2:28 AM
Same here… I don’t appreciate the “post-n-runners”
Upstater85 on April 14, 2009 at 2:29 AM
The password changes each week. I can tell you last week, the password was bacon, because god hates bacon and we figured we’d stick it to him. /nonsensicalsnark
BryanS on April 14, 2009 at 2:30 AM
That’s not the point. The point is that Dostoyevsky is wrong with his statement. Feudal Japan’s laws weren’t based on Judeo-Christian principles, yet they existed thus proving Dostoyevsky wrong.
Penguin on April 14, 2009 at 2:30 AM
Interesting concept this religion or faith, what have you.
Is the life you lead only to catch up with you when you cease to exist.
Or do you really cease to exist when you die?
Ah, morality and it’s soft warm glow.
Kini on April 14, 2009 at 2:30 AM
Hmmm… some atheist group you guys are…/s
Upstater85 on April 14, 2009 at 2:31 AM
Hey, I wasn’t the one who made the comparison.
Upstater85 on April 14, 2009 at 2:33 AM
Hmm… I think there is a significant difference… But there is some mixing at times.
Upstater85 on April 14, 2009 at 2:34 AM
I think that I understand why “they” so want atheism to be a religion and can even sympathize with them on that, even though it is obviously ridiculous on it’s face. It is so much easier to attack something, especially as religions all seem to have contradictory beliefs, both among religions and within a given religion. Atheists really do have an advantage in that atheism has basically nothing to defend and as George Patton said, “Nobody ever defended anything successfully, there is only attack and attack”.
MB4 on April 14, 2009 at 2:38 AM
First, I believe you are referring to little a atheists. So I can agree with you – just like I would say that an individual that has a strong faith, but doesn’t invest much time in the rituals of a religion probably has a similar advantage.
On the surface this seems apathetic, but I would say that it’s slightly conservative (yet still cynical). For example small government conservatives need not defend politicians that eventually may become corrupt…
Upstater85 on April 14, 2009 at 2:44 AM
OK, and with that, I’m out. Good luck with the bacon passwords, my atheist bloggers… And Kini (I think you are the only other non-atheist left), good luck…
Upstater85 on April 14, 2009 at 2:46 AM
have you ever seen one of those Vampire movies or TV shows where the Vampires can scent other Vampires?
It’s works pretty much the same with atheists.
MB4 on April 14, 2009 at 2:47 AM
Now that I think of it in those terms, I think you are probably basically right, for Europe and America too. George W. Bush comes to mind, here in America, as he was “always” going on with “Islam is the Religion of Peace” and “Islam is a Great Religion” and “Islam is a Great Religion of Peace”.
MB4 on April 14, 2009 at 2:58 AM
I was dead for billions of years before I was born and it never inconvenienced me one bit.
- Mark Twain
MB4 on April 14, 2009 at 3:01 AM
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