How do we stop piracy?

posted at 8:49 am on April 13, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

Now that the crisis has passed with the Maersk Alabama and Captain Richard Phillips, along with three of the four pirates holding him, we need to determine how to avoid this in the future.  Fred Iklé has a couple of common-sense suggestions in the Washington Post today, mostly by returning to traditional methods of exterminating piracy:

So why do we keep rewarding Somali pirates? How is this march of folly possible?

Start by blaming the timorous lawyers who advise the governments attempting to cope with the pirates such as those who had been engaged in a standoff with U.S. hostage negotiators in recent days. These lawyers misinterpret the Law of the Sea Treaty and the Geneva Conventions and fail to apply the powerful international laws that exist against piracy. The right of self-defense — a principle of international law — justifies killing pirates as they try to board a ship.

Nonetheless, entire crews are unarmed on the ships that sail through the Red Sea and the Gulf of Aden. Shipowners pretend that they cannot trust their crews with weapons, but the facts don’t add up.

We’ve heard a number of excuses over the past couple of weeks for why crews have no access to weapons when traveling through the Gulf of Aden and other dangerous waters.  Some ships have access to non-lethal weapons, such as sonic guns, designed to create tremendous pain so that pirates can’t get aboard the ship in the first place.  Once boarded, however, crews are unarmed and at the mercy of the pirates, a completely unacceptable choice given the wide knowledge of the existence of piracy.  If the crew members themselves aren’t qualified to carry weapons — and there’s no reason they can’t be qualified — the shipping companies should hire security forces for ships passing by the Horn of Africa.

Iklé has another good suggestion:

The international right of self-defense would also justify an inspection and quarantine regime off the coast of Somalia to seize and destroy all vessels that are found to be engaged in piracy.

This should actually be the next mission for the US Navy after freeing Phillips.  We don’t need a quarantine and inspection to identify some of the boats and ports in question; I’d bet dollars to donuts we’ve already identified most of them.  Our next step after killing the pirates on the lifeboat is torpedoing their ships in their home ports without inspections or even warnings.  Somalia’s failed state can’t impose order on these areas, but if the pirates become a liability rather than an asset to these facilities, they’ll get the heave-ho soon enough.

In the future, we don’t need the lawyers and the FBI negotiators, and we especially don’t need to legitimize Somali “elders”, either.  Iklé has that right; piracy is not a bank robbery.  The entire point of piracy is to capture ships in territory where no nation can claim sovereignty and therefore work outside the civil law.  The proper response to that is military, not some notion of cops and robbers.  When pirates find out we’re serious, and when enough of them wind up at the bottom of the ocean, they’ll think twice about seizing American or Western shipping.

Update: JD Johannes had been gaming out this confrontation, and came remarkably close to the eventual conclusion days ago.  Be sure to read his post.

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 2 3

How do we stop pirates, the age old solution, dead pirates.

Start with arming the ships.

tarpon on April 13, 2009 at 8:54 AM

1. Arm the crews
2. If captured hang the pirates from the yardarm
3. Piracy stops

johnsteele on April 13, 2009 at 8:55 AM

Does anyone know if arming the crew would be legal? It wouldn’t surprise me if there’s some law against it either in this country or the countries where these ships have to dock.

Kronos on April 13, 2009 at 8:55 AM

It’s a very localized problem , invade , rinse and repeat.

Oh it’s a lawless area , well thats bad , for them.

UN Resolution B52.

the_nile on April 13, 2009 at 8:55 AM

mount 50 caliber’s they will dissuade any skiff and have a very long range.

rob verdi on April 13, 2009 at 8:56 AM

Oh and 4. Start shelling and bombing some of the known pirate enclaves.

johnsteele on April 13, 2009 at 8:56 AM

ED, you are trying to think logically. We are now in the middle of Hope and Change.

faraway on April 13, 2009 at 8:56 AM

Kill’em

Have a nice day.

heshtesh on April 13, 2009 at 8:56 AM

Hit the Somali ports – the Pirates “safe havens”. Hit them where they live on the land.

jake-the-goose on April 13, 2009 at 8:56 AM

Put a bounty on the head of every pirate and only pay it for dead pirates…

doriangrey on April 13, 2009 at 8:57 AM

Send Sheriff Joe.

faraway on April 13, 2009 at 8:57 AM

I’d bet dollars to donuts we’ve already identified most of them. Our next step after killing the pirates on the lifeboat is torpedoing their ships in their home ports without inspections or even warnings.

No, don’t kill them; pluck out their right eyes & cut off their left legs at the knee. Then everyone will recognize that they’re pirates. Arrrr.

jgapinoy on April 13, 2009 at 8:58 AM

Let me get this straight. The Washington Post suggest arming a ship’s crew to protect themselves and their property, yet they have been against American citizens in Washington D C doing the same thing? No contradictions here!

randycf on April 13, 2009 at 8:59 AM

No, don’t kill them; pluck out their right eyes & cut off their left legs at the knee. Then everyone will recognize that they’re pirates. Arrrr.

jgapinoy on April 13, 2009 at 8:58 AM

Na, just shoot them in the head and dump them in the water close to the shores of their homes.

doriangrey on April 13, 2009 at 9:00 AM

Does anyone know if arming the crew would be legal? It wouldn’t surprise me if there’s some law against it either in this country or the countries where these ships have to dock.

Kronos on April 13, 2009 at 8:55 AM

And we should care exactly why? There is no such thing as international law, its a modern affectation, and illusion fostered by law school professors; there may international cooperation and international agreement, but without some kind of enforcement capability there is no law.

In the case of piracy “international law” has always come at the end of some navy’s hangman’s noose.

johnsteele on April 13, 2009 at 9:00 AM

One has to remember, Obama looks at the pirates as victims, and also as prospective voters in a One World Govt…..

sbark on April 13, 2009 at 9:01 AM

randycf on April 13, 2009 at 8:59 AM

They’re liberals, what were you expecting from them? Logic and honesty???

doriangrey on April 13, 2009 at 9:01 AM

Break out the planks.

Wade on April 13, 2009 at 9:03 AM

Send Sheriff Joe.

faraway on April 13, 2009 at 8:57 AM

Heee. Nobody messes with Joe. Not even Blackbeard.

At least that’s what the One told us.

Perhaps we could send in some booty. What IS Hillary Clinton doing nowadays, anyway?

mjk on April 13, 2009 at 9:03 AM

This is an international problem in a high traffic area of the open sea.
Isn’t about time for the UN to get off it’s ass and actually do something?

This seems like a no brainer to me.
But then again maybe there’s a booty for food program?

oldernwiser on April 13, 2009 at 9:03 AM

We are already spending several million dollars each day for our part of the joint anti-piracy protection flotilla out in the Indian Ocean. There are over 20 other nations doing the same.

We know where the pirates are…their harbors…and Somalia’s coast provides little natural cover.

A combined joint high seas fleet cruising along Somalia’s coast, using available assets to destroy pirate ships, harbors, and yes, homes. make it big. Make it loud. Make it permanent.

Then blockade Somalia…permit only escorted ships into and out of Somalia for the next year or so.

Nation building…or rather, re-building, can come later.

But trying to address the social, societal and poverty concerns in Somalia before destroying the pirates and their ability to terrorize ships at sea, seems a bit backward, and will only prolong the situation.

Destroy the pirates. That comes first and foremost.

coldwarrior on April 13, 2009 at 9:03 AM

My actual suggestion: Bullet to the leg, feed to the sharks.

mjk on April 13, 2009 at 9:04 AM

How do we stop piracy?


You got me again, Ed.
Good question.

Saltysam on April 13, 2009 at 9:04 AM

The first step would be to keep the D of J out of it. It’s a military operation. Also, limit Mr. President’s role as much as possible, unless he grows a spine between now and then. Strategically strike Somalia and let the pirates know that there are consequences for attacking Amiercan vessels.

kingsjester on April 13, 2009 at 9:04 AM

We should not act arrogantly, or be derisive or dismissive… Can I just eat my waffle?

Kuffar on April 13, 2009 at 9:04 AM

A small team of mercenaries on every ship shouldn’t be prohibitively expensive…er, I mean a small security contingent. It’s the right thing to do.

Tennman on April 13, 2009 at 9:08 AM

Whaaa? The lib trolls seemed to say on last nights threads that we were all stupid because we didn’t know they were allowed to be armed. You mean they were wrong and they’re not allowed to be armed?

hawkdriver on April 13, 2009 at 9:08 AM

These pirates attack from small open boats. A few containers of flammable liquid dropped into those open boats, followed by a flare from a flare gun, and the attacks stop.

If the pirates want to escalate from small arms to heavy weapons, then merchant ships should have the option to carry small arms or mount small guns.

If ports refuse entry to armed merchant vessels, then the merchant fleet should refuse to carry cargo destined for those ports. If insurance carriers refuse to issue insurance for pirate infested transit points, again merchant fleets should refuse to transit those areas.

This isn’t difficult, either fight back, pay the bribes, or don’t go into those areas.

Skandia Recluse on April 13, 2009 at 9:08 AM

A functioning Somali government.

Without that, all your gung ho hangem high stuff is irrelevant.

ernesto on April 13, 2009 at 9:08 AM

dorian!

Get within 200 yards, and bye-bye!

rightside on April 13, 2009 at 9:09 AM

As for arming merchant ships…

Arming ships on the open ocean is a discretionary matter for whomever flags the ship. Entering individual harbors, accessing ports, well that is where local law takes precedence. This is where the arm the ships argument grinds to a halt. There are a lot of countries that don’t like the idea of armed merchant ships with civilian crews manning the guns, or hired contractors manning the guns, making port. Give this a thought…how many Americans would like to have Chginese merchant ships pull into the Port of Los Angeles with a few dozen deck guns prominently displayed and Chinese crews manning the rails, armed?

Besides, arming ships is a temporary and haphazard means at best.

Destroy pirates and their facilities, ships and harbors each and every time a pirate crew decides to try to take down a merchant ship.

They have incentive to ply their trade…money…easy money.

Increase their individual and collective risk one-hundred fold. One pirate ship coming out of some backwater port attacks a merchant ship…destroy that backwater port…level it. Do it often enough and piracy becomes a very very high risk trade and extremely costly for those who have chosen that profession.

coldwarrior on April 13, 2009 at 9:10 AM

Hang nude effigies of Rosie along the side of each ship passing through the area. That should deter anyone.

faraway on April 13, 2009 at 9:10 AM

I need a vacation. And am for hire. Will supply my own provisions. Any takers? I definitely will work cheaper than Triple Canopy or Black Water, etc….

Benjamin9 on April 13, 2009 at 9:10 AM

I can’t imagine why crews wouldn’t be armed. I’m also puzzled at the whole discussion of bringing the captured pirate back to the US for some kind of trial. A captured pirate should get a trial before an officer on the ship that captured him. His hanging should follow shortly thereafter.

morganfrost on April 13, 2009 at 9:11 AM

Training, and arming the crews would seem the smart response.

If not arming the crews. then putting armed guards on the ships while they are in troubled areas.

Rode Werk on April 13, 2009 at 9:11 AM

Have any of you gun-clinging, bible totting, slack jawed neo-cons considered just making the Indian Ocean a “Gun Free Zone?” Violence never solved anything.

signed –

Michael Moore

afterdarknesslight on April 13, 2009 at 9:11 AM

When pirates find out we’re serious, and when enough of them wind up at the bottom of the ocean, they’ll think twice about seizing American or Western shipping.

There you go Ed. We are a superpower. Check that, we are THE superpower and should act like it. When countries FEAR us, they are no longer a threat to us. The problem is that we are more concerned with ‘winning hearts and minds’ than making sure other countries do what we say because we are bigger and stronger than they are.

It’s my stance on Pakistan. . . although I recognize the difference between a sovereign state and international waters. And I also understand that Pakistan has nuclear weapons which makes consideration different (but shouldn’t).

Good aggressive post using out power as we should. . . to protect our national interests – no matter the international outcry.

ThackerAgency on April 13, 2009 at 9:12 AM

Hang nude effigies of Rosie along the side of each ship passing through the area. That should deter anyone.

faraway on April 13, 2009 at 9:10 AM

Nah man. Have you seen those skinny dudes? They would die for some bacon hacked off that heifer.

Benjamin9 on April 13, 2009 at 9:12 AM

It is truly hilarious to watch uneducated 3rd world teenagers run circles around the “smart Western countries”.

LOL

What can we do? Oh my!

We need Senate hearings!

Full-steam ahead.

artist on April 13, 2009 at 9:13 AM

The captured pirate should be released into the United States, given full citizenship, and a tax refund.

faraway on April 13, 2009 at 9:13 AM

Does anyone know if arming the crew would be legal? It wouldn’t surprise me if there’s some law against it either in this country or the countries where these ships have to dock.

I had heard about this too, there would be an extra layer of customs and declarations and all that BS in certain places they pull into port. Either exceptions can be made for them as long as the weapons never leave the small-arms locker while in port, or the small-arms locker can be loaded on a small motorwhale boat or something, staying outside territorial waters while the ship docks and unloads.

JamesLee on April 13, 2009 at 9:16 AM

A functioning Somali government.

Without that, all your gung ho hangem high stuff is irrelevant.

ernesto on April 13, 2009 at 9:08 AM

So you suggest an invasion and occupation until they got a civilized government?

the_nile on April 13, 2009 at 9:16 AM

While I and millions more would agree that to handle pirates, killing or maiming them is the answer.

But guess what? In today’s political and progressive International law and in general, and in the views of governments, you can’t kill or maim, even if those ones you kill and maim are trying to do the same to you.

Of course, it is well known that the pirates only want money and have never killed or maimed anyone. They treat their captives well (except for the odd beating once in a while) and they release them and the ships and cargo upon receiving their bounty.

After all, to the poor pirates this is just business. They have no interest in terrorism nor murder, just a honest living taking millions from those who have those millions and ways of making more.

It’s just a re-distribution of wealth…with a pirate flair, and I’m sure that Obama understands this and is willing to go along with the pirates efforts to feed their poor families and to build a better world for themselves.

Welcome to the 21st. century.

Papa Ray
West Texas
USA

Papa Ray on April 13, 2009 at 9:16 AM

GRAND TORINO DIPLOMACY

lasertex on April 13, 2009 at 9:18 AM

or the small-arms locker can be loaded on a small motorwhale boat or something, staying outside territorial waters while the ship docks and unloads.

JamesLee on April 13, 2009 at 9:16 AM

My thought exactly.

Benjamin9 on April 13, 2009 at 9:18 AM

Start by blaming the timorous lawyers…

In the future, we don’t need the lawyers…

What’s with all the lawyer bashing??? Lawyers don’t make the law, they just study it and tell you what is legally permissible under given circumstances. I’m sure it was a lawyer somewhere that helpfully pointed out it was okay to kill the SOB’s.

tommylotto on April 13, 2009 at 9:19 AM

How do we stop piracy?

Make the risk/gain equation Make the risk/gain equation a whole lot less attractive. Do that by:
1: Stop paying ransom, period, no matter what.
2: Go after every known pirate, pirate enclave and pirate support network, with any and all means possible.
3: Blockade the Pirates, and sink any vessel of any size that tries to run the blockade.

MikeA on April 13, 2009 at 9:20 AM

Keep in mind, those pirates have rpg’s and can be at quite a distance. Add to that, they are bobbing like a cork in their small boats, and even the most skilled marksmen would have some trouble hitting them with rifles.

Best against them would be mounted .50 cal machine guns. A few rounds through the hull, and the boat is sunk. Scoop up the scum, try them right then and there, and execute them for piracy.

Oh, and broadcast it globally.

rightside on April 13, 2009 at 9:20 AM

Destroy the port facilities.

End of problem.

wccawa on April 13, 2009 at 9:22 AM

Hang nude effigies of Rosie along the side of each ship passing through the area. That should deter anyone.

faraway on April 13, 2009 at 9:10 AM
———
This may make keeping good crews more difficult…

Mew

acat on April 13, 2009 at 9:23 AM

A functioning Somali government.

Without that, all your gung ho hangem high stuff is irrelevant.

ernesto on April 13, 2009 at 9:08 AM

So you suggest an invasion and occupation until they got a civilized government?

the_nile on April 13, 2009 at 9:16 AM
———
This may actually work.

The simpler solution, Nile, is to outsource it to the Chinese.

Mew

acat on April 13, 2009 at 9:24 AM

ernesto on April 13, 2009 at 9:08 AM

If it doesn’t deter all piracy, it will at least insure the ones who are caught and executed will not be repeat offenders. Think of it as high seas maintenance.

hawkdriver on April 13, 2009 at 9:24 AM

faraway on April 13, 2009 at 9:10 AM

Thanks. Now I have to go wash my brain.

MikeA on April 13, 2009 at 9:25 AM

A functioning Somali government.

Without that, all your gung ho hangem high stuff is irrelevant.

ernesto on April 13, 2009 at 9:08 AM

Imperialist!

artist on April 13, 2009 at 9:25 AM

A commenter with actual marine knowledge commented last week that the reason these ships are generally unarmed is not for fear of killing pirates, but because they don’t trust their own crews with firearms aboard.

Think for a moment about who these guys are who take a job aboard a freighter – no skills required, no resume, no Federal background check or drug screening. Just anyone willing to be at work 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for the next few months, at something less than minimum wage.

And hiring reliable armed security under those circumstances must be very difficult/expensive indeed. This is not a simple problem to solve, and I believe the only proper and lasting solution will be a relatively serious effort on the part of our navy and a few others and a lot of dead Somalis.

For starters, blow up every know pirate boat and hideout, and then blow up every single non-commercial boat issuing from Somalia pirate harbors without prior approval; kill all aboard on sight. Should go a long way toward solving the problem.
Sorry.

Jaibones on April 13, 2009 at 9:27 AM

You forgot to mention the real roadblock to all these solutions, the UN.

JeffinSac on April 13, 2009 at 9:27 AM

Somali insurgents fire mortars at visiting U.S. congressman

13 Apr 2009 13:17:47 GMT
Source: Reuters

MOGADISHU, April 13 (Reuters) – Somali insurgents fired mortars towards U.S. congressman Donald Payne as he left the Somali capital on a rare visit by a U.S. politician to the anarchic Horn of Africa nation, police said.

“One mortar landed at the airport when Payne’s plane was due to fly and five others after he left and no one was hurt,” Abukar Hassan, a police officer at Mogadishu airport, told Reuters. (Reporting by Ibrahim Mohamed; Writing by Jack Kimball; Editing by Andrew Cawthorne)

artist on April 13, 2009 at 9:28 AM

While we can certainly defeat the pirates if we get over the lawyers and “human rights” cretins, we should not forget there are two factors about why this has become an issue. Obviously, our servile Political Correct posture encourages piracy, but the other factor is Islam. Mohammed was a bandit, and every since muslims have engaged in piracy and banditry to make themselves prosperous. In fact, the United States’ first war was against the muslim pirates of Morocco, Algeria, and Libya who were looting our ships and enslaving American citizens.

thuja on April 13, 2009 at 9:28 AM

It’s not just Somalia, but in the case of Somalia, the only thing that will stop it is regime change and/or nation building. That would be a huge task, given the nature of the world today, and might divert resources from the all important battle against rich people and climate change, though.

They don’t give a rip about dying.

I’m not sure arming the crew is the best answer to the overall problem, maybe for American vessels, that’s fine. Our merchant marines should undergo weapons training. This could be a huge opportunity for the US. Do what we need to do to secure our vessels and cargo and the world can follow. If they don’t, there would be an increased demand for American owned shipping.

Arming the crew is only a small part of the solution.

reaganaut on April 13, 2009 at 9:29 AM

A functioning Somali government.

Without that, all your gung ho hangem high stuff is irrelevant.

ernesto on April 13, 2009 at 9:08 AM

Nonsense. No one suggests these guys are jihadist suicide bombers. Death would seem to be a deterrent. There is a lot of bravado going on here, yes, but suggesting the navy search and destroy is not that. It’s just old-fashioned, and tried-and-true.

You and Bush have more in common than you would probably admit, libby.

Jaibones on April 13, 2009 at 9:30 AM

From the link provided by:

OkieDoc on April 13, 2009 at 9:04 AM

Google for the document cited in footnote 6 (IMO Doc. A.922) will give you the present rules

a 10 page pdf:

pp 1-3 declaration (geez these guys are long-winded)
p 4 definitions
p 5 “Training of Investigators”
p 6 “Investigative Strategy”
p 7 “Dealing with an Initial Report”
p 8-10 “The Investigation”.

It’s a policing manual (drafted in 2000 – the Clinton era).

The only interesting part is page 5, “Primary purposes of an investigation”:

1. Safe release of hostages (their rescue is the priority)
2. Arrest of offenders.
3. Secure Evidence
4. Disseminate info to prevent further offenses
5. Recover Stolen Property
6. Co-operate with responsible authority

So you can shoot them as long as they are holding hostages.

gh on April 13, 2009 at 9:31 AM

I hear about crews trying to repel boarders with a water cannon. Why not a diesel cannon and a zippo lighter?

innominatus on April 13, 2009 at 9:31 AM

Death would seem to be a deterrent.

Not really. A sniper round to the head is a better option than starving to death. I’m not saying seach and destroy isn’t an option, but it is only one option.

reaganaut on April 13, 2009 at 9:33 AM

The Suez Canal, Red Sea and Strait of Hormuz account for something like 70% of all shipping container cargo. And because it’s the only route (not around cape of good hope) from europe to asia they are forced to go through it knowing what’s to come. The main problem is the gun policies regarding the Mediterranean Sea. They can’t have any!

Butters on April 13, 2009 at 9:33 AM

Now that the crisis has passed

I don’t think the fat lady has quite sung for this piracy incident yet.

Not until we hear stories about pirates so brave they stood up to the US Navy to become martyrs.

So what if its organized crime why waste a perfectly good hostage stand off?

Speakup on April 13, 2009 at 9:37 AM

Yes, start by arming the ships against these pirates. It’s common sense, easy, cheap and popular… except among the radical leftists and UN.

The captain’s rescue could pave the way for Obama to take world leadership in addressing the piracy problem with decisive, yet relatively inexpensive measures. But my guess is that Obama will bask in the rescue as his victory, and do nothing more about the problem until bad publicity over yet another crisis commands his attention.

petefrt on April 13, 2009 at 9:37 AM

Start by blaming the timorous lawyers who advise the governments attempting to cope with the pirates such as those who had been engaged in a standoff with U.S. hostage negotiators in recent days. These lawyers misinterpret the Law of the Sea Treaty and the Geneva Conventions and fail to apply the powerful international laws that exist against piracy. The right of self-defense — a principle of international law — justifies killing pirates as they try to board a ship.

Nonetheless, entire crews are unarmed on the ships that sail through the Red Sea and the Gulf of Aden. Shipowners pretend that they cannot trust their crews with weapons, but the facts don’t add up.

————————————

No kidding the facts don’t add up.

I mean, picture the head of the corporation talking to the crew before they set sail:

CORPORATE OWNER: Well here you go, here’s my ship, big as as an aircraft carrier, worth $300,000,000 bucks. I trust you to take good care of her.

SHIP’S CAPTAIN: Thank you sir, we won’t let you down. We’re professionals.

CORPORATE OWNER: Oh and here’s my $20,000,000 worth of cargo. I know I can trust you to see that it safely reaches it’s destination.

SHIP’S CAPTAIN: We’ll do our best.

CORPORATE OWNER: I guess that about covers it. Was there anything else?

SHIP’S CAPTAIN: Well now that I think of it, there’s been some pirate attacks in the area we’ll be sailing through. It would look kind of ridiculous of a ship this size with this many crew members was so totally unarmed they fell prey to a small tug boat of a handful of guys waving around AK-47′s. Do you think we could have some guns to defend ourselves and your $300 million dollar ship and $20 million dollar cargo with?

CORPORATE OWNER: What are you, a moron? You think I trust your judgment THAT much? Out of the question. The lawyers and the insurance people would have a melt down.

SHIP’S CAPTAIN: Uhm, so you’ll trust me with $320,000,000 million dollars of your stuff, but not with a gun?

CORPORATE OWNER: Don’t you have a schedule to keep?

manofaiki on April 13, 2009 at 9:37 AM

Jaibones on April 13, 2009 at 9:30 AM

You do realize the costs of playing police in the gulf of aden will always outweigh the benefits so long as somalia remains utterly lawless…don’t you?

They have ports they run themselves, they have warlords funding them…these pirates are an outgrowth of the lack of functioning government in somalia. without an end to that anarchy naval force is just a band-aid solution.

ernesto on April 13, 2009 at 9:38 AM

I was checking some of the post at Huffpo to see what the response over there was. Guess what? It’s America’a fault, it’s Europe’s fault, it’s Bush’s fault…etc…yawn.

vcferlita on April 13, 2009 at 9:38 AM

Time to go Pompey on their a**.

Tzetzes on April 13, 2009 at 9:38 AM

Ho do we stop piracy?

With big, loud guns. This isn’t difficult.

BetseyRoss on April 13, 2009 at 9:38 AM

A functioning Somali government.

Without that, all your gung ho hangem high stuff is irrelevant.

ernesto on April 13, 2009 at 9:08 AM

Didn’t we try that back when Clinton was president?

MarkTheGreat on April 13, 2009 at 9:39 AM

I hear about crews trying to repel boarders with a water cannon. Why not a diesel cannon and a zippo lighter?

innominatus on April 13, 2009 at 9:31 AM
———
Re-invent the old Greek method.

A bucket of jellied gasoline (or diesel), a guy with a good arm, and a flare gun…

Mew

acat on April 13, 2009 at 9:39 AM

Seems simple to me.
Take an old freighter fill the containers with several flavors of special ops guy’s, wait for an attack, presto! Keep doing it until they stop or all are dead. I know. Entrapment,attractive nuisance, lawsuits etc. F**k em.

faol on April 13, 2009 at 9:41 AM

The basic problem has been outlined. We are trying to use 1st world criminal procedure against pirates when we should be using a war paradigm. Shoot on site, shoot to kill, don’t concern yourself overmuch with collateral damage & use massive force as collective punishment on communities which the pirates operate from. We did it once with the Barbary Corsairs we can do it again. (paraphrased from SM Stirling)

cmshumard on April 13, 2009 at 9:41 AM

Somali insurgents fired mortars towards U.S. congressman Donald Payne as he left the Somali capital on a rare visit by a U.S. politician to the anarchic Horn of Africa nation, police said.

artist on April 13, 2009 at 9:28 AM

Incomplete reporting at present, but there was the suggestion that he is already returning to the US WITHOUT completing the mission of his visit, which was to be a meeting with Somali officials.

Guess we should have had Captain Phillips stop in to take care of that meeting on his way home.

Yoop on April 13, 2009 at 9:41 AM

When fighting tribal societies, you must go after the tribes in the same way that they do when they fight each other. That is the language they understand. Of course, this requires ruthlessness, which has long since been declared illegal to even contemplate in the West, which is why we have pipsqueaks and morons all over the globe attacking us and our interests with abandon. Until we start to deal with the real world, not only will this not stop, but it will get worse and worse.

The great line of demarcation in the world today is:

Individualism/Guilt/Atonement versus Tribalism/Shame/Revenge

Needless to say, we know which side our Precedent is on.

progressoverpeace on April 13, 2009 at 9:41 AM

F**k em.

faol on April 13, 2009 at 9:41 AM

No. Kill them. Let the sharks “F**k em”.

Yoop on April 13, 2009 at 9:43 AM

While I and millions more would agree that to handle pirates, killing or maiming them is the answer.

But guess what? In today’s political and progressive International law and in general, and in the views of governments, you can’t kill or maim, even if those ones you kill and maim are trying to do the same to you.

Of course, it is well known that the pirates only want money and have never killed or maimed anyone. They treat their captives well (except for the odd beating once in a while) and they release them and the ships and cargo upon receiving their bounty.

After all, to the poor pirates this is just business. They have no interest in terrorism nor murder, just a honest living taking millions from those who have those millions and ways of making more.

It’s just a re-distribution of wealth…with a pirate flair, and I’m sure that Obama understands this and is willing to go along with the pirates efforts to feed their poor families and to build a better world for themselves.

Welcome to the 21st. century.

Papa Ray
West Texas
USA

Papa Ray on April 13, 2009 at 9:44 AM

You hit the nail on the head. We need to destroy the ships. We need to stop this nonsense.

btw..anyone hear Laura Ingraham say the Bobby Rush and a few others want to apologize for the Marine hymn. “the shores of Tripoli” is offensive.

Good grief!

becki51758 on April 13, 2009 at 9:45 AM

What would be needed logistically to put up Predators to patrol the shipping lanes, identify the “mother ships”, track them back to their harbors and blow them out of the water before they can dock?

Catseye on April 13, 2009 at 9:47 AM

Anyone see Jennifer Loven’s latest puff piece? It is simply stunning.

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-politics/20090412/Obama.Pirates.Analysis/

Just incredible.

reaganaut on April 13, 2009 at 9:48 AM

Think for a moment about who these guys are who take a job aboard a freighter – no skills required, no resume, no Federal background check or drug screening. Just anyone willing to be at work 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for the next few months, at something less than minimum wage.
Jaibones on April 13, 2009 at 9:27 AM

Just to put the “no skills required” assertion in context: In the case of U.S. flagged vessels (like the Alabama), any job above wiper/ordinary seaman requires a rather “involved” licensing process. And that is just the government requirements. Unless they have changed their standards, Maersk actually requires mates to be dual-licensed, i.e. in both Engineering and Deck. I suspect even the prototypical Filipino hired to crew a Liberian-flagged freighter posesses a pretty respectable skill set.

A Balrog of Morgoth on April 13, 2009 at 9:48 AM

A functioning Somali government.

Without that, all your gung ho hangem high stuff is irrelevant.

ernesto on April 13, 2009 at 9:08 AM

A functioning Somali Government?
Ernesto, the last one they had was a dysfunctional Dictatorship, 18 years ago. Somalia is a hellhole
that has proven to be incapable of anything functional besides being a haven for the very worst of sub-human kind. The Somalis are incapable of any sustainable economy, produce nothing but Terrorists, Murderers & Thugs. I think You need to go there on holiday. They have nice beaches and plenty of dope.

Were it up to me, I would test JDAMS there daily on their cities and ports.

old trooper2 on April 13, 2009 at 9:49 AM

Seems simple to me.
Take an old freighter fill the containers with several flavors of special ops guy’s, wait for an attack, presto! Keep doing it until they stop or all are dead. I know. Entrapment,attractive nuisance, lawsuits etc. F**k em.

faol on April 13, 2009 at 9:41 AM
———
Q-ships (what your idea was called way back…) are expensive.

If losses are high enough, then they make sense.

Losses are not (currently) high enough.

Besides, these are low-tech pirates. The cost of one of their boats is lower than the cost of one of our torpedoes. Not cost-effective. Arranging a pirate interdiction task force would be a Good Idea …

Mew

acat on April 13, 2009 at 9:50 AM

Anti-Piracy 101

First, lose the lawyers.
Second, learn history.
Third, memorise this term: Hostis humani generis
Fourth, be civilized about it.

saint on April 13, 2009 at 9:50 AM

How do we stop piracy? Kill the pirates. Word will spread quickly.

Oink on April 13, 2009 at 9:51 AM

What would be needed logistically to put up Predators to patrol the shipping lanes, identify the “mother ships”, track them back to their harbors and blow them out of the water before they can dock?

Catseye on April 13, 2009 at 9:47 AM
———
Bingo.

On the B-side, turn the attack accountants loose. A Somali pirate has little use for a container full of Blu-Ray players – where do they get sold? Someone is paying, follow the $$$$.

Mew

acat on April 13, 2009 at 9:52 AM

sheesh with the ‘security detail’…

If you’re man/woman enough to work on the high seas, you’re man/woman enough to carry a weapon and defend your life – the ship.

Arm them.

bridgetown on April 13, 2009 at 9:52 AM

“Kill ‘em. Kill ‘em all.” – Stonewall Jackson

carbon_footprint on April 13, 2009 at 9:53 AM

What does Capt. Philips call his captors now?

Chum.

Wander on April 13, 2009 at 9:53 AM

You do realize the costs of playing police in the gulf of aden will always outweigh the benefits so long as somalia remains utterly lawless…don’t you?

ernesto on April 13, 2009 at 9:38 AM

Kind of. You do realize that being a Somali warlord doesn’t pay real well…don’t you? Sink three or four of their revenue-generating boats in the harbor and they’re bankrupt again, for starters.

Then send the navy ships that we have now steamed into the Gulf on a few months of targeted destruction/deterrence. The navy is on the payroll whether they’re Somalia or San Diego, as you know.

The last thing I would do is go into that shithole of a country and risk great lives searching out these maggots. Bomb them if we know locations. Sink boats. But don’t spend a single American life.

I don’t care if Somalia ever leaves the 7th century and becomes civilized. I wish better for their children, but it’s not our job.

Jaibones on April 13, 2009 at 9:54 AM

A few points to think about…

1. Only ONE US Flag’d ship has been taken. We dealt with that problem. (and on an aside, the Admiral in his news conference said that there had been an attempted highjacking of that American ship 24 hours before it was finaly boarded, and the US Navy, although it knew about it, did nothing at the time… even though we were in command of the whole stinking op… why were we busy protecting OTHER nations ships, and not our own?).

2. Many many ships use other Flag’s to avoid our laws, and taxes. Thus, they don’t help pay for the Navy, yet suddenly expect its help.

3. Why, is this AMERICAs problem? Why does the world, suddenly expect our help in this, when they will not help us in Afganistan, or in Iraq, or Korea, or Iran….

Yes, Piracy is a scourge… but please explain to me how this suddenly became important enough to AMERICA to go into further debt to fix this problem… because the only way to fix it is to Nation Build in Somalia… somthing which would cost of both Lives, and Treasure.

Romeo13 on April 13, 2009 at 9:55 AM

It’s not just Somalia, but in the case of Somalia, the only thing that will stop it is regime change and/or nation building. ….
reaganaut on April 13, 2009 at 9:29 AM

nation building .. geez.. . haven’t we learned our lesson on that? Bush ran in 2000 on a platform of NO MORE nation building because it was such a horrible thing for the US to get involved in under Clinton.

Oh, and as far as the pirates, there’s always more to the story and we aren’t hearing it. We also rarely hear about the role the IMF played in taking Somalia from a failed Socialist experiment to a nation in total collapse.

popularpeoplesfront on April 13, 2009 at 9:58 AM

I likes me some swift-boated Browning . A few blasts of that, and there will be browning alright . . .of pirate underwear.

Keep in mind, those pirates have rpg’s and can be at quite a distance. Add to that, they are bobbing like a cork in their small boats, and even the most skilled marksmen would have some trouble hitting them with rifles.

rightside on April 13, 2009 at 9:20 AM

That’s what I was thinking, but look at the story of the rescue:

Acting with President Obama’s authorization and in the belief that the hostage, Capt. Richard Phillips, was in imminent danger of being killed by captors armed with pistols and AK-47s, snipers on the fantail of the destroyer Bainbridge, which was towing the lifeboat on a 100-foot line, opened fire and picked off the three captors.

It must have been the 100 foot proximity. At any rate, I haven’t heard of them using RPG’s yet. If THAT happens, it’s going to get very ugly.

smellthecoffee on April 13, 2009 at 9:59 AM

The us should not commit ground forces to the mainland. Unless Americans are prepared for a hard, long slog with AQ and Shabaab and the pirates and a subsequent humanitarian / nation building efforts.

blatantblue on April 13, 2009 at 9:59 AM

ROE precluded the Navy engaging in a hostage situation without express orders from the CIC-BO. Those Navy Seals probably had the pirates targeted for hours before they pulled the trigger.

CTF151 has UN authorization to use force, passed late last year. The USS Boxer, with a full compliment of Marines as well as amphibious and air assault elements, including a Beach Director, replacing the USS San Antonio signaled a change in tasking from observe to act. The San Antonio is a problem plagued ship in need of constant tinkering, the Boxer ready to go.

Both Europe and the US remember their history and are repeating it. Europe simply put up with the Barbary Pirates for decades as a cost of shipping in the Mediterranean; the US Navy went to war.

Stay tuned.

MarkT on April 13, 2009 at 10:01 AM

Now don’t get me wrong- I’m a firm 5.56 guy. But for arming ship crews I endorse 7.62 NATO, preferably from an M-14.

pseudonominus on April 13, 2009 at 10:02 AM

Comment pages: 1 2 3