Captain tried to escape from pirates
posted at 12:18 pm on April 10, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
The standoff in the Gulf of Aden continues, with the US Navy bringing more assets to bear on the lifeboat where pirates hold the captain of the Maersk Alabama hostage. However, they lost control of Richard Phillips briefly when the captain leapt out of the lifeboat and tried to swin for the USS Bainbridge. The pirates jumped back in the water and retrieved him:
Richard Phillips, the captain of a U.S.-flagged cargo ship, tried to escape from pirates Thursday night by jumping out of the lifeboat where he’s being held, a U.S. official said Friday.
Phillips was believed to be trying to swim to the USS Bainbridge, a naval warship that is in communication with the gunmen holding Phillips off Somalia’s coast, the official said.
The pirates jumped into the water, recaptured him, and returned him to the lifeboat, according to the official.
The U.S. military has every reason to believe that he was unharmed in the incident, the official said.
I’m hesitant to second-guess an ongoing operation, but why didn’t we react in time to rescue Phillips? It seems to me we should have anticipated an escape attempt, and had people ready to assist him if he broke free. Phillips must have thought so as well; surely he didn’t contemplate having to swim all the way up the side of the Bainbridge to make his escape successful.
Meanwhile, Andy McCarthy at National Review says that piracy has returned because of an overweening desire for civilization to feel good about itself rather than protect shipping lanes from barbarians:
The men who founded our country and crafted our Constitution understood this. They understood that the “rule of law” was not a faux-civilized counterweight to the exhibition of might. Might, instead, is the firm underpinning of law and of our civilization. The Constitution explicitly recognized that the United States would have enemies; it provided Congress with the power to raise military forces that would fight them; it made the chief executive the commander-in-chief, concentrating in the presidency all the power the nation could muster to preserve itself by repelling evil. It did not regard evil as having a point of view, much less a right to counsel.
That’s not our position anymore. The scourge of piracy was virtually wiped out in 19th century because its practitioners were regarded as barbarians — enemies of the human race (hostis humani generis, as Bret Stephens recently reminded us in a brilliant Wall Street Journal essay). They derived no comfort from the rule of law, for it was not a mark of civilization to give them comfort. The same is true of unlawful enemy combatants, terrorists who scoffed at the customs of civilized warfare. To regard them as mere criminals, to assume the duty of trying to understand why they would brutalize innocents, to arm them with rights against civilized society, was not civilized.
We don’t see it that way anymore. Evil is now just another negotiation. Pirates and terrorists are better known for their human rights than for their inhuman wrongs. On Thursday, America’s commander-in-chief didn’t want to talk about the pirates — “Guys, we’re talking about housing right now,” he chided a reporter who dared to raise the topic as the Somalis held the American ship’s captain hostage. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, meanwhile, was dispatched to assure the public that the world would come together to deal with this “criminal activity” — a relief if you were wondering whether the naval destroyer on the scene was equipped with Miranda-warning cards.
This is the self-destructive straitjacket for which transnational progressives are fitting us. Indeed, the Law of the Sea Treaty — a compact Obama would commit us to — has hopelessly complicated the rules of engagement under which the pirates have thrived, just as Protocol I of the Geneva Conventions (a treaty Ronald Reagan was prudent enough to reject) has become an offensive weapon for jihadists everywhere. Having harnessed ourselves, we are once again the weak horse.
We don’t need a President commenting on ongoing hostage negotiations to have a strong policy against piracy, but otherwise Andy’s dead-on correct. It springs from a Western infatuation with moral relativism, where we’re no longer allowed to consider groups of people barbaric, even when engaging in the execution of gays (Iran) or wholesale slaughter of people through starvation policies (Zimbabwe). When we decided that evil no longer exists and all became Freudians, we stopped defending civilized behavior and started excusing uncivilized behavior. The piracy issue is just the latest example of that trend.
That’s not Barack Obama’s fault, as it started long before he arrived on the political scene. Nor can Obama be blamed for the rise of piracy over the last few years in the Gulf of Aden, as he just became President 80 days ago. How we react to this incident and how we treat piracy in the future is definitely a test for Obama and his worldview, however. Given Obama’s propensity to treat radical Islamist terrorists the same as street thieves and gangs, it would appear that the moral-relativist, Miranda-warning approach to piracy will continue.
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Sidestroke, I would presume.
MB4 on April 10, 2009 at 2:05 PM
or plastic baggie.
MB4 on April 10, 2009 at 2:05 PM
Doesn’t that tend to blow up the barrel of the gun on the first shot?
Count to 10 on April 10, 2009 at 2:06 PM
Pardon the pun here but this is uncharted waters for the Navy. They are not trained as hostage negotiators. Throw in the fact that DC is probably calling the shots since Obama’s people distrust the military and there is no way in hell that your criticism is valid but using your logic why didn’t they launch a SEAL team to sneak into that boat and rescue the Ship’s Master like some Steven Segal movie?
highhopes on April 10, 2009 at 2:06 PM
The pirates win by getting away from the US Navy with the hostage or the hostage is dead and they get away. The Navy wins by getting the hostage back alive. What happens to the pirates at that point is anyones guess. I speculate they will never reach the german ship alive if they hurt the hostage.
kanda on April 10, 2009 at 2:07 PM
The Somali pirates are following Obama’s lead.
OBAMA ORDERED THE MILITARY TO STAND DOWN.
Obama is refusing his Constitutional OBLIGATION to protect American life and security.
Impeach Pirate Obama
maverick muse on April 10, 2009 at 2:07 PM
It didn’t in Vietnam and I doubt it will in the ocean.
kanda on April 10, 2009 at 2:08 PM
OBAMA ORDERED THE MILITARY TO STAND DOWN.
Obama is refusing his Constitutional OBLIGATION to protect American life and security.
Impeach Pirate Obama
maverick muse on April 10, 2009 at 2:07 PM
Is that true? Where did you hear that
FlyoverJ-HawkFan on April 10, 2009 at 2:10 PM
I still like my idea… stay upwind, flood the area with gas, knock everyone out. Ensure immobilzation with LRAD/flash bangs, then a quick entry by SEALS.
Get the Captain out and turn the rest into sushi.
wccawa on April 10, 2009 at 2:12 PM
The pirates win if they get the money and don’t loose, and loose if they get killed or captured. We win if we get the pirates and don’t loose, and loose if we pay the ransom or the hostage dies.
Currently, the navy can guarantee the pirates loose, but it pretty much means us loosing, too.
Count to 10 on April 10, 2009 at 2:12 PM
Ohhhhhhhh, Count to 10. I was picturing a liferaft out of gas, just floating there.
I mean, isn’t this where the phrase, “like shooting fish from a barrel” comes from. :)
I’d prefer to think there’s a reason for this nonsense other than buffoonery and idiots running the show.
AnninCA on April 10, 2009 at 2:12 PM
The Russians tried that with chemicals they weren’t supposed to have. The hostages died.
Count to 10 on April 10, 2009 at 2:13 PM
Well, I suppose it DOES matter which gas you use, eh?
wccawa on April 10, 2009 at 2:14 PM
I said yesterday that we needed snipers at the ready.
This would have been the perfect time to use them.
MarkTheGreat on April 10, 2009 at 2:15 PM
Not that I am advocating it, but as I recall not all of the hostages died and, also as I recall, the Russians used too high a concentration of the chemicals.
MB4 on April 10, 2009 at 2:16 PM
“Snipers on board the Bainbridge” – awful hard to get a clear shot on a ship in open waters, being its bobbing up and down. 1 degree of error could spell disaster, even a miss could cause the Capt to lose his life by the hands of the pirates. In fact, I think its impossible for military folks to propose this.
There certainly is back-end communications and negotiations going on – and most likely being handcuffed by Bambi and the forest rangers of an administration.
Considering they haven’t attempted to kill the Captain, yet – that is the leverage negotiators have.
Pay the $2M ransom, secure the Captain safely and then assault the pirate vessel, “mother ships” and on ground support areas within lawless Somalia.
China will not intervene – they also depend on open shipping lanes with billions of exports and cargo.
Odie1941 on April 10, 2009 at 2:17 PM
Hmmm. That would make things more risky. You would have to count on them panicking. I’m surprised, though: that is a lot of incompressible fluid to get out of the way, even assuming the propellant ignites.
Count to 10 on April 10, 2009 at 2:17 PM
about the AK47 for those who do not know how powerful a weapon it is.
kanda on April 10, 2009 at 2:18 PM
When the captain was getting shot at? Yeah, that would have been nice.
Count to 10 on April 10, 2009 at 2:19 PM
Can I have a show of hands of people who have spent more than 5 minutes in the open ocean please…Now people who have been 300 miles from shore in a small boat. thought so. Don’t let that slow down your military planning and second guessing though. Carry on.
TheBigOldDog on April 10, 2009 at 2:20 PM
Wow. That’s nuts.
Count to 10 on April 10, 2009 at 2:21 PM
Couldn’t you just shoot all the pirates at once, except for maybe whomever is making sure he’s hiding behind the captain?
I bet if he’s the last guy standing, he would not shoot the captain.
AnninCA on April 10, 2009 at 2:21 PM
I have but them most Marines have.
kanda on April 10, 2009 at 2:22 PM
Point taken.
Count to 10 on April 10, 2009 at 2:22 PM
LOL*….Big dog. My expertise comes from watching CSI on TV. :)
AnninCA on April 10, 2009 at 2:22 PM
Covered boat. You can’t see inside.
Count to 10 on April 10, 2009 at 2:23 PM
If the pirates’ buddies are allowed to arrive on scene, the situation is going to get exponentially more complicated really fast.
Christien on April 10, 2009 at 2:23 PM
Awful hard to shoot through a steel casing canopy of the lifeboat and hit 4 thugs when you can’t see them.
They aren’t floating in an inflatable life raft. They are in a very sophisticated lifeboat made of steel and built to withstand storms on the high seas.
Texas Gal on April 10, 2009 at 2:24 PM
SEAL Team 6… that is the reason they were created in the first place… for at sea HOSTAGE situations, and boarding Hostile vessels… and yes, the US Navy DOES have trained negotiators.
But you are correct that DC is almost certainly calling the shots…
Romeo13 on April 10, 2009 at 2:24 PM
As a Merchant Marine officer, I think I qualify.
wccawa on April 10, 2009 at 2:24 PM
And for the Beta status of our Government…
Fox has a blurb up that the FRENCH stormed a Yacht which had been taken by pirates…
French …. GAWD…. could this get any worse?
Romeo13 on April 10, 2009 at 2:25 PM
I have only one question about this life boat. If it is enclosed in such a way that snipers can’t be used and the hostage would be dead before Navy Seals could board just how in Hades did the good Captain manage to get overboard in the first place?
chemman on April 10, 2009 at 2:26 PM
And a “safe route to escape with the captain” is exactly what the Navy must not allow them to have.
cs89 on April 10, 2009 at 2:26 PM
The Russian hostage situation involved a knockout gas probably similar to Fentanyl where its application was uneven in a large structure as preparation for storming the building. It could work in this much smaller scale situation because we only need to focus on the rescue of the captain. The hostage takers are and should be seen as completely disposable.
The Bainbridge can provide immediate medical care. A Navy rescue diver could administer Narcan (Fentanyl / opioid reverser) by injection or if need be, by marksmans’s dart gun. Not saying it would be easy but it could work. Once the captain is safely recovered then blow the lifeboat and pirates out of the water.
viking01 on April 10, 2009 at 2:27 PM
The probably didn’t expect him to jump ship.
Count to 10 on April 10, 2009 at 2:27 PM
You’re a merchant marine and you seriously think you can gas something on the open ocean?
TheBigOldDog on April 10, 2009 at 2:27 PM
Puts up his hand… USN Ret? Used to RUN and TRAIN Boarding teams? 6 Sea Service Ribbons… Sailed around the World… TWICE? 12 years stationed abord US Navy Ships?
Gee, is it OK if I have an opinion?
Romeo13 on April 10, 2009 at 2:28 PM
I have spent a lot more than 5 minutes in the open ocean as I imagine a lot reading and commenting here have. 10 miles out or 300 miles out, same ocean. Not at all sure what your point is other than “if your not there you should have no views on this matter”. If that is you point then I don’t know why you are reading any of the comments.
MB4 on April 10, 2009 at 2:29 PM
This is speculation but I’ll do it anyway. there is no toilet on the lifeboat and no ventilation. I would think in the dark they orpent on of the portals/hatches/doors to take care of both curcumstances and the hostage jumped overboard.
kanda on April 10, 2009 at 2:30 PM
Uh, yes? Its called an UnRep for underway replenishment…
Its done by the Navy all the dang time.
Romeo13 on April 10, 2009 at 2:30 PM
That would be the Clintoon administration. When some special forces had OBL in their sights at an Afghan terror facility they couldn’t get the pacifist-in-chief to “ok” taking OBL out despite the fact special forces put their azzes on the line and had the opportunity!
Correct me if I’m mistaken but wasn’t Berger the one on the phone with the commanders during that operation and Burger refused to make a decision and eventually just hung up on the commanders?
Trust me this administration is Carter/Clintoon redux X-1000 and our enemies know this. They are aleady gleefully drawing up their heinous plans to slaughter many more Americans as they are acutely aware (thanks to Obamabi’s actions/inactions and words) that the giant that is America is not sleeping but instead has been neutered by the liberal pacifist dems!
Gird your lions…I see a bad moon risin’!
Liberty or Death on April 10, 2009 at 2:30 PM
Lots of variables, depends on sea state, but yes, I believe it could be done. Actually, from what I have seen recently, conditions appear nearly ideal.
wccawa on April 10, 2009 at 2:30 PM
Give the pirates the $2 million inside a suitcase and let them go ashore with it before they open it… filled with anthrax.
newton on April 10, 2009 at 2:31 PM
Try actually following the conversation before you comment okay?
TheBigOldDog on April 10, 2009 at 2:32 PM
I’ll tell you one thing having spent two weeks on a destroyer I know why they are called “tin cans” I prefer a carrier even a baby one like the Marines use.
kanda on April 10, 2009 at 2:32 PM
Yep, just guessing, but they probably had the side hatches open during the night…. for ventilation if nothing else…
Romeo13 on April 10, 2009 at 2:33 PM
Hey, talk to me. I’m a Mariner’s wife here!
newton on April 10, 2009 at 2:33 PM
Until the minute you try to release a chemical weapon and the winds shift and blow right back into your face.
TheBigOldDog on April 10, 2009 at 2:33 PM
My husband hasn’t spent five minutes swimming in the open ocean… but he was very close to spend an eternity under it, as the Blizzard of ’93 crossed the North Atlantic.
newton on April 10, 2009 at 2:35 PM
Back to my original thought…..this will end up in ransom.
AnninCA on April 10, 2009 at 2:35 PM
I used to water-ski. Does that count? :)
AnninCA on April 10, 2009 at 2:35 PM
Only opinions such as TheBigOldDog’s that praise our Great Leader. All other opinions are strictly verbotten.
DasObamaReich on April 10, 2009 at 2:36 PM
He says after dismissing anyone here who may have an opinion…
Hmmmm… your talking Chem warfare? I spent an AWFUL lot of time at GQ (General Quarters) wearing a GAS MASK…
Navy seems to think it can be done apparently.
Romeo13 on April 10, 2009 at 2:37 PM
I’ll bet someone in the Navy who has expertise on smoke generators and prevailing winds could be very helpful. Maybe the old school approach from the pre-RADAR days but no less functional in this circumstance.
The focus is on saving one man, the captain only, all the pirates are expendable.
viking01 on April 10, 2009 at 2:37 PM
The ship has a meterologist onboard…a weatherperson.
kanda on April 10, 2009 at 2:37 PM
Forget chemical weapons. A suitcase filled with $2 million and anthrax to be taken back to their lair will do the trick.
I personally prefer a sniper or two at the Navy ships, pointing straight at the pirates.
[OT: Isn't it curious that the media calls these pirates "businessmen", but not the kidnappers in Mexico?]
newton on April 10, 2009 at 2:37 PM
A bullet can only penetrate about 18 to 24 inches of water before it is completely useless. The captain could have kept swimming and staying underwater would have distanced himself.
The problem is, most people think a bullet goes whizzing through the water like on the movies.
But, still scary with some wild man throwing down some fire.
I don’t see how snipers on a boat a few hundred yards away, could have “picked” off the pirates at night.
The conjecture of “they are waiting for command” is just that conjecture.
It was a night, Bainbridge is some distance away, far enough so the pirates bullets won’t reach (as reported). The captain made a brave attempt, and the pirates responded quickly.
right2bright on April 10, 2009 at 2:38 PM
You’re an idiot if you think I’m praising Obamaa you fool. However, I am not going to question the actions of the military when I am not there and have been ast Sea enough to know how difficult the conditions can be an how quickly they can change.
TheBigOldDog on April 10, 2009 at 2:39 PM
A great picture of what one of these life boats from container ships look like.
Knucklehead on April 10, 2009 at 2:39 PM
You’re kidding right?
TheBigOldDog on April 10, 2009 at 2:40 PM
Done all that. Plus rode a covered life boat from the davits into the drink. Plus station keeping on a small boat in a storm driving a Spruance. AFAIK the 50 cals. are not gyroscopically stabilized on Burkes.
Ok, you got 2 more Sea Service ribbons than me. I believe we all agree that giving goals, not rudder orders to the Bainbridge CO, moving the FBI out of the COC, and stating that the ROE meets the goal of saving the Captain, is the way forward.
NaCly dog on April 10, 2009 at 2:41 PM
And that’s the same thing as refueling at sea right? You F’ed up by jumping into a conversation you weren’t following but you’re not man enough to simply acknowledge it. That’s fine.
If Libs were questions the actions of the military they way you guys are you’d all be howling. I guess you all think it’s okay now that Obama is CiC. Suddenly the military has become completely incompetent or something. You guys are almost as hypocritical as the Left.
TheBigOldDog on April 10, 2009 at 2:43 PM
Then, again I ask you, why the hell are you reading the comments here? What is the point?
This is America and anyone can question anything they want and I would lay you odds that many of those on scene are questioning, at least to and among themelves, things themselves. I doubt there are too many potted plants there.
MB4 on April 10, 2009 at 2:48 PM
200 Ton N/C Master, Commercial Rescue endorsement. Nothing big-time, like your hubby. What’s his gig?
wccawa on April 10, 2009 at 2:48 PM
Exactly. Evidently you don’t think it applies to you however. Funny how that work huh?
TheBigOldDog on April 10, 2009 at 2:49 PM
They are actually called ‘Aerographer’s Mates,” IIRC. I trained with them at old Chanute AFB.
wccawa on April 10, 2009 at 2:49 PM
I believe I ANSWERED THE QUESTION in the following post?
and You, who dismiss everyone on here, is expecting an appology?
And saying I’m not MAN ENOUGH???
If it wasn’t so amusing, it would be sad.
As to calling the Military incompetent? I guess you didn’t follow the conversation… or you’d be man enough to appologise… my VERY FISRT POST in this thread was saying how they are most probably being micromanaged from Washington… and that is the problem…
But please…. stay on your high horse… its funny to watch.
Romeo13 on April 10, 2009 at 2:50 PM
The military is handling it the best it can…it will get more complicated the longer it takes.
We have already seen the “experts” on maritime law on HotAir go up in flames with wrong information.
Right now you can bet a gun is trained on the captain at all times, the moment they feel something is wrong, they may or may not “take him out”.
The best thing to do is to keep them isolated. The best thing they (pirates) did was deceive the cargo ship by saying “release our man and we will release yours”.
You can bet we are saying “We can’t trust you, you already showed you lied”.
The other complication that was stated, is that these pirates have at most a 5th grade intellect, they may be clever, but conversing with them is very difficult.
The one past negotiator said it was so difficult that the interpreter could barely understand their demands because their language skills are so weak.
I would hope that they have some system of disabling vessels that are coming to assist. Not attack them, but disable them.
One by one they become sitting ducks.
*
The other, if it was in better days, land a contingent of marines in Somalia, in the harbor and take it over…yes invade a country that is supporting piracy, but that will never happen.
right2bright on April 10, 2009 at 2:55 PM
I don’t know… may not be enough experience there to be able to post an opinion….
/sarc
Romeo13 on April 10, 2009 at 2:55 PM
Not true as it depends on what they were questioning and just whom the “you guys” were.
Questioning a President has always been OK with me. No one is above questioning.
I may have missed it but I don’t recall anyone saying, “the military has become completely incompetent”
You are getting rather hysterical. You should probably do something else as you are clearly getting very upset.
MB4 on April 10, 2009 at 2:56 PM
That is what is interesting about the Ak47. It can kill and is still deadly underwater at 2 feet. I forgot if the bullet can be stopped at 5 ft or 5 yards (15 ft) with your bare hand but it is one of those two. This weapon is truly the best in the world. Designed around 1943 and manufactured starting around 1946 by the Russians. The early m16 was crap compared to this weapon. If you sneezed on the first m16′s they would jam and it was hard to reload and chamber a round when in a firefight. Very quickly Colt redesigned the receiver to fix that issue. Many grunts Army and Marine died because the early M16 was coming up short against the AK47. The 47 would roll in the mud with you and never miss a beat.
kanda on April 10, 2009 at 2:56 PM
Thanks, the news keeps showing some large “rowboat” or skiff…that give a much better perspective and the difficulty of the rescue.
right2bright on April 10, 2009 at 2:57 PM
I really don’t know how you could come to that strange conclusion. People here question me, as well as many others. When I first arrived on scene I was almost tarred and feathered.
You are the one saying not to question, or pretty much not to even have an opinion, other than yours. Don’t you even read what you wright.
MB4 on April 10, 2009 at 3:03 PM
Pointed at moi? By the person who stated categoricaly that he had a “source” who KNEW we already had personel and ships on site before the Bainbridge arrived???? When I was questioning how long it was taking for the Bainbridge to arrive?
Your right… we should ignore the trolls…
Romeo13 on April 10, 2009 at 3:04 PM
You should really go back to using other people’s words. You made more sense then.
TheBigOldDog on April 10, 2009 at 3:05 PM
Or would that be my assertion, that because of current US case law, that the DOJ would end of calling the shots?
LOL…. yep… prooven wrong in that… where?
Gah… sucked in… got better things to do than argue with someone who is only here to win an arguement, and LIE about that arguement to boot….
Have fun guys….
Romeo13 on April 10, 2009 at 3:08 PM
Rescuing the Captain should have a high priority, but it should not be the highest priority. If it is then might as well just pay the ransom, cut military spending to the bone, and hope for the best.
MB4 on April 10, 2009 at 3:09 PM
Why not give them 5 minutes to surrender and notice that a large armed boarding party is coming to get them dead or alive otherwise, hostage or not? Then follow through.
DarkCurrent on April 10, 2009 at 3:09 PM
Maybe two feet, and I don’t think the bullet will re-chamber underwater so you would have one shot if you were underwater.
I think the penetration power ends at around 15-18 inches…water just doesn’t compress that well, and it would depend on if it was an armor piercing, I believe that is what most of the tests were. If not, I would venture 13-15 inches from what the test showed.
Armor piercing, one test, in gelatin was only 16 inches, they said add 10% further for water.
But either way, not what is shown in the movies with bullets “whizzing” through the water like torpedoes.
right2bright on April 10, 2009 at 3:09 PM
Because we don’t want to gamble on the captains life.
right2bright on April 10, 2009 at 3:10 PM
You’re welcome. I’ve taken several cruises on NCL in the past year or so and was shocked to see how large and well equipped these lifeboats really are. All of them had 2-two hundred horse Johnson engines and containers that held 100 gallons of gas, along with plenty of bottled water and food.
Knucklehead on April 10, 2009 at 3:11 PM
And you got your law degree from where? Google U?
right2bright on April 10, 2009 at 3:12 PM
…and I also stated several kinds of surveillance, and it was reported that an Orion was there within hours…seems like you only see what you want to see.
Like I said, if you don’t want to believe that we had a sub in the area, no problem. I don’t think that major area of sea transport is as “desolate” as you seem to think it is.
But it was better then your source on what Maritime law was…glad to have educated you in that area, you’re welcome.
right2bright on April 10, 2009 at 3:17 PM
Just surround them and wait em out. Shoot everyone else that enters the area that is unauthorized by the US Navy.
They have to eat. Fire up a BBQ pit upwind with steak on it and let em smell on that for a few days. Then, bang.
saiga on April 10, 2009 at 3:19 PM
That sure isn’t a very good answer on your part.
I spoke clearly. If you could not understand then blame your parents or your teachers or yourself, don’t blame me.
Since you did say “using other people’s words” maybe you will enjoy this.
There are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, and the third [I think this would probably be where you come in] is useless.
- Niccolo Machiavelli
Well, biggie olde doggie, I gots to go for my noonish swim now, really. I will try to swim a half mile. Maybe I will drown. Think happy thoughts.
MB4 on April 10, 2009 at 3:20 PM
Then we get the next hostage situation and the next and the one after that. Hostages will continue to have value to pirates/terrorists as long as we do otherwise. We need to break the predictable pattern. I know it sounds cold, and I’d probably have a different view if I was the hostage or a family member, but rationally it seems the only way to reduce future recurrence.
DarkCurrent on April 10, 2009 at 3:20 PM
You are not familiar with the ak47 obviously. Rather than discuss it since I worked with this weapon in the Marines during the 1960′s and know what it will and won’t do I suggest you just do a little research. I am giving facts. you are giving opinion. That is why I sat will and you say I think. It is not an important issue except as it relates to pirates shooting the hostage underwater.
kanda on April 10, 2009 at 3:26 PM
According to the radio news just now, the naval vessel is abut 1 mile away. jeez
peacenprosperity on April 10, 2009 at 3:26 PM
Lots of these pirates are Muzzies so I’d suggest maybe grilling pork chops on that grill upwind from them
viking01 on April 10, 2009 at 3:27 PM
Me, too. It’s a really big ocean out there. Or, more specific to this case, a really big gulf. While I have no faith in Obama or Biden, I do have absolute faith in our military to be doing all they can to rescue the captain and others.
Blake on April 10, 2009 at 3:30 PM
Update from Brietbart…. 2nd US Navy ship arrives. A third USS Boxer is nearby. With the Boxer you get Marines. With Marines you get the AH1W super cobra. There is nothing the Pirats can do now.
kanda on April 10, 2009 at 3:34 PM
Small World. I was a weather guy in the Marines.
Chanute (Rantoul)is quite possibly the armpit of America. I was there in Winter, even!
What was your MOS?
pseudonominus on April 10, 2009 at 3:36 PM
You are right, I am not that familiar…that is why I used a military tests, and some other legitimate test sites for the information. Just using “my experience” would not be enough, since I never fired into a gelatin mold, or re-chambered under water, in a controlled situation.
They used gelatin, and as I noted, you add (by their statement) 10% for water. And they used armor piercing, then they extrapolated for non armor.
It wasn’t my opinion, it was from several military tests.
When I said “I don’t think” is because on two separate occasions, in the tests, it did re-chamber once. The other times it did not.
Hey, you should contact the military and tell them that their tests are wrong.
Firearms Tactical Institute was one of the several sources.
right2bright on April 10, 2009 at 3:37 PM
Oh. Please stop.
pseudonominus on April 10, 2009 at 3:39 PM
Hmmm… law degree? never said I had one… but nice snark…
As to my legal opinion… oh… I don’t know… might just be able to form an opinion after teaching classes to boarding parties about Maritime Law, and International Law, and the Geneva, and how they interact with US Law…
Didn’t write em… just gave em…
But please continue… you are amusing…
and as to the Orion… the discusion, and the DIRECT answer you gave when you answered MY POST in that other thread, was to the SHIP on station… and your assertion that there WAS a SUB there already… for which your only source was a “buddy”.
But please… continue to read ONLY WHAT YOU WANT… to spin your way through…
Romeo13 on April 10, 2009 at 3:39 PM
Paraphasing Teddy Roosevelt, we should drop leaflets on the pirates home port:
“Philips alive, or lots of Somalis dead.”
We won’t, I know…
Realist on April 10, 2009 at 3:39 PM
I smiled this morning when they said the USS Halyburton was on the scene.
It is spelled differently, but you know that name drives the liberals crazy.
right2bright on April 10, 2009 at 3:40 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090410/ap_on_re_eu/eu_france_pirates
French storm a Yacht, held by Pirates…
Could we be more BETA right now…
Romeo13 on April 10, 2009 at 3:43 PM
Knock it off! Flat is beautiful.
Blake on April 10, 2009 at 3:47 PM
Ed and others routinely seem to believe that the radical administration has good intentions. It is just like every other administration that has ever won an election, just a little bit more liberal.
The only problem with that is that it doesn’t fit the facts at all.
Everything, everything that is happening has a purpose, and the purpose is to bring the United States down to the level of other countries.
When nobody tried to save the captain, it is purposeful.
When nobody blockades the city the pirates operate from, it is purposeful.
When nobody responds to the N. Korean piss-ant, it is purposeful.
Sure, the idiot is a rookie…but all that does is imply that if he had experience, he wouldn’t make the same mistakes.
But from his perspective, these are not mistakes.
He doesn’t give a hoot about a single American life, particularly one who wouldn’t vote for him.
He cares about power.
World power.
And not the kind of world power that depends on American military might.
The kind of world power that will allow him and his handlers to rule without boundaries.
notagool on April 10, 2009 at 3:49 PM
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