Surprise: New Gallup poll shows support for gun control at historic low
posted at 6:56 pm on April 8, 2009 by Allahpundit
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Fascinating stuff, mainly because it really is a surprise. My hunch when I first glanced at it was that this was still more gun-rights backlash (some of it decidedly creepy) to Obama’s election, but eyeball the long-term trend. Freaky deaky:
I would have guessed that opposition to gun control always spikes during moments of fear, economic or otherwise, which means we should see sharp downward movement here during the Reagan recession of the early 80s and after 9/11. Tain’t so; in fact, support for gun control actually rose during the former period. Check out the numbers in 1959, too. I always assumed Americans have become more inclined towards gun-grabbing over time as the country’s become less rural, but that’s also completely wrong. In fact, within five years, support for gun control had lost 11 points and by 1980 it had collapsed to almost half the percentage it had just 20 years earlier, a trend I assume was a reaction to rising crime levels in the 1970s. Still, how many hot-button issues have ever seen movement that dramatic in such a short period?
Maybe the most notable detail is that Obama’s election hasn’t affected the issue that much. Granted, we’re at an all-time low, but we’ve been trending that way for five years. The Supreme Court’s ruling in Heller doesn’t appear to have created any pronounced effect one way or the other, either. Anyone have a unified field theory to explain the numbers?
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Grandpa’s advice on pistols and semi-auto rifles, “no need to own one until they try to take them away.”
The wolf hates the sheepdog.
sven10077 on April 8, 2009 at 6:58 PM
Yeah I have a theory…it’s right.
right2bright on April 8, 2009 at 6:59 PM
I have a simple rule, I never trust a politician who can’t handle a firearm.
Two that comes to mind right away: Obama & Romney.
Btw, I am active in the NRA, and our grassroots will go 100% for Palin in 2012 if she choses to run.
Norwegian on April 8, 2009 at 7:01 PM
Yep, the steady march of CCWs … Now some 40 states must issue. Around 500,000 citizens in each state carry guns.
tarpon on April 8, 2009 at 7:01 PM
Yeah, people have overwhelming evidence that it doesn’t work…from places that tried it or are still trying it. Places like Britain, Washington D.C….Germany. Gun crimes are strongly up in countries and cities that criminalize firearms.
AUINSC on April 8, 2009 at 7:02 PM
That is surprising. One possible explanation is that the country becomes more urban and less rural, more and more people are exposed to high crime rate areas. A lot of people who don’t own a hand gun may just want to have the option available in case things where they live ever got really out of control.
BadgerHawk on April 8, 2009 at 7:06 PM
Guns is us. Blue Dogs or Red Dogs. We all see it coming. Holder is the Lancelot (or thinks he is) of gun control and we’ll all be damned if Uncle Sugar is going to get the last laugh.
Limerick on April 8, 2009 at 7:07 PM
This does not surprise me one bit. When we American’s see our country under attack, we want to defend ourselves. Our bho seems to want to do all he can to take our firearms from us. Believe or not.
L
letget on April 8, 2009 at 7:07 PM
I think people are seeing more and more crime that falls under the catagory of “sick f&%k” (like deciding to just go pick someone and kill them, or a group of someones like say in a school or something). And, I think people are realizing that the police have no legal obligation to protect anyone, according to the Supreme Court (I believe?). In the days of random carjackings, home invasions, drive-by gang violence, and other sorts of sick F&%Ks, people are realizing that it’s up to themselves to defend their own, or at least have the option to do so.
Due to this, combined with the Congressional Blind Faith that has rammed through the Generational Theft Act, Bailouts, retroactive bills of attainder, and used the IRS as a weapon running quickly out of steam, I really don’t think we have too much to worry about in terms of new gun control laws. Regardless of how loud Obam’ter and his ilk cry about poor Mexican drug gangs.
JamesLee on April 8, 2009 at 7:07 PM
The spike in 1980 was probably due to sympathy for Reagan and Brady getting shot, and Sarah Brady coming out so strong for gun control
arkansasmike on April 8, 2009 at 7:08 PM
With the advent of the current Marxist/communist regime, our Constitutional right to own and bear arms for self protection has become exceedingly relevant and important.
rplat on April 8, 2009 at 7:09 PM
I think people see that gun control doesn’t work to control criminals. It hinders the law abiding. Education and the continued irrelevance of the MSM contribute to this. I’ve met more new gun owners in the past 3 months than in 10 years. Expect that number to drop even further.
shooten on April 8, 2009 at 7:13 PM
People trust the authorities less than they did in 1959.
Realist on April 8, 2009 at 7:13 PM
I’m sure there’s an amendment about this somewhere.
LibTired on April 8, 2009 at 7:14 PM
LOL…the last low was during Carter’s last year in office.
Personally, I won’t believe these numbers unless CBS conducted the poll.
Dr. ZhivBlago on April 8, 2009 at 7:15 PM
Oh come on man. Save your money for a someone who can win.
True_King on April 8, 2009 at 7:16 PM
Gun control?
Have you been to a gun store lately? It’s like Christmas Eve at Macy’s! Waiting lists, back-orders, top dollar on anything used, and ammunition flying out the door. Obama’s presidency was the best stimulus for gun sales this nation has ever seen. Armed and Ready the watchword; Locked and Loaded the stance to take! Conservatives abandoned McCain/Palin and adopted Colt, Ruger, and Smith & Wesson…
Long Live the Second Amendment and Pass the Ammunition….
IntheNet on April 8, 2009 at 7:16 PM
Virginia Tech was the turning point. No doubt in my mind. Whenever one of these shootings happen, there is always a push by the left to ban guns. I didn’t really get that as much from the VA Tech shooting. There wasn’t very much that the cops could do– even if they had arrived in time to stop anything– because he chained the doors. They were trapped, and if anyone would have saved the day, it could only have been someone on the inside– a private citizen.
Glenn Jericho on April 8, 2009 at 7:18 PM
I find myself skeptical that the collection of these survey results could have been sufficiently consistent to really compare 60 years of data. The science of polling, the advent of cheap cost to cost calling alone must have affected how the numbers have been gathered.
I simply do not buy that the nation that fought WWII in it’s 20’s thought it was a good idea to disarm themselves in their 40’s. Then we are suppose to believe that as the “generation of love” came into polling age the desire to arm only increased? No way.
If there is an agenda behind these numbers its’ to support that narrative that the “gun culture” is a modern fantasy/construct and our forefathers saw the real wisdom of gun control.
H
Hochmeister on April 8, 2009 at 7:19 PM
The assault by the left and the moderate Republicans has been more pronounced and so has the response since 59, couple that with the growth of the alternative media and I can see why opposition to GC has grown.
It’s about to come to a head though.
True_King on April 8, 2009 at 7:20 PM
I would like to see the overlay of a poll during the same time period that asks the question;
Seven Percent Solution on April 8, 2009 at 7:20 PM
and gun sales are going through the roof.
rob verdi on April 8, 2009 at 7:21 PM
That is possible. I know my trust in politicians as a whole is even lower than these numbers for gun control support.
Yakko77 on April 8, 2009 at 7:23 PM
YES! With that, the elusive Grand Unified Theory is resolved.
Look at the weasels we have in cabinet positions and governor’s mansions today. How many could have gotten away with as much, 50 years ago?
innominatus on April 8, 2009 at 7:23 PM
Because we are a country of arrogant cowards, comprised of Islamophobic, non-Christian Somali pirates, who run guns and drugs for the Mexicans to support our meth habits and illegal wiretaping. We own guns, that we bought with our enhanced FICO score and zero down payment, to make Michelle ashamed and to jack ipods from elderly royalty. We will never admit we bowed to Saudi Royalty and if you ask us again we will shoot you, or make up a really stupid lie, whichever our teleprompter tells to do.
/s
batterup on April 8, 2009 at 7:23 PM
Shove an American down on the ground, they become a Republican in the course of a nanosecond.
Obama represents to many a threat to our Constitution.
Speakup on April 8, 2009 at 7:25 PM
I think a lot of the attitude towards handguns during the 50s had more to do with the commonplace presence of long guns in the home at the time. Everyone had a rifle or shotgun in the home, and anti-gun rhetoric hadn’t really caught on due to a diminishing sense of self-preservation. Safety was nowhere near as important an issue as preparedness.
Glad to see the trend is continuing, though. Maybe this will have an impact on legislation, but I doubt it. This Congress hasn’t represented this constituency in years.
MadisonConservative on April 8, 2009 at 7:25 PM
Possible theory – when most of the country was rural just about everyone had several shotguns/rifles around the house but fewer handguns(most likely revolvers)- as people started moving to the cities the need for handguns became more relevant(crime instead of hunting) and also more likely to be “controlled” more people are getting aware that the government is trying to take away their rights(that they now need for safety and not just hunting)
Also someone mentioned that people trusted the government more back in the days before it grew out of control.
Corsair on April 8, 2009 at 7:25 PM
At the last gun show near Los Angeles, the two ammunition sellers, were totally sold out.
To understand this, they bring in pallets of ammunition. The prices have gone up.
One segment of the population believes in “protect and serve”, the other doesn’t.
Glenn Beck may be right about this one, it may really be 1860 all over again.
Rush is correct in saying that this isn’t about “process”. Wonks don’t have a clue. This is becoming a real grass roots basic change.
Check out the history of “vigilantes” in the U.S. If you just had a bad emotional reaction when you read the words, consider yourself to be well conditioned. This was the “normal” reaction of the populace to corrupt government.
And if “corrupt” isn’t the most descriptive term for the U.S. and lots of state governments, you probably haven’t been paying attention.
Everyone wants a change, we just don’t want the Obamanation.
CrazyGene on April 8, 2009 at 7:27 PM
The fastest way for Democrats to remove themselves from office is to be pro gun control. Look at every time the Democrats have controlled government and how fast they were removed when they tried to ban guns.
Rode Werk on April 8, 2009 at 7:30 PM
“Keep the change”
sven10077 on April 8, 2009 at 7:30 PM
The continued, consistent and unequivocal failure of experiments in civilian disarmament to mitigate violent crime, coupled to two decades of “shall issue” law in which none of the outcomes predicted by hysterical people from the Brady Campaign or other anti-self defense types occurred should logically have produced this result.
Increasing violent crime in Europe could also be a factor. the UK has had the highest per capita rate of violent crime in the “developed world” for five years running and even folks not usually attuned to such issues are beginning to get this little itchy feeling that maybe Brady et. al. are not quite honest or reliable when they mouth off.
The good stories about automatic weapons and explosives coming from AZ gunstores into Mexico, whith Holder and Clinton being debunked by their own troops, impeaches also the MSM and those two savants.
Pictures of Mikey Bloomberg telling us it’s safe while escorted by 8 policemen does give one a start. That he has millions of personal wealth (ditto Feinstein, Pelosi and other such leading disarmament experts) to buy all the armed security he could ever want, while the vast bulk of us have neither taxpayer security details or that kind of pocketbook make it clear that if crime increases, they will not do the bleeding, we will.
The Binghamton police didn’t get to that murder scene for more than an hour, because the call for rescue took that long to go out. An object lesson proving the adage that when seconds count, the police are just minutes away…if you get to call them.
Harry Schell on April 8, 2009 at 7:32 PM
*crooks trigger finger*
This is my safety.
ladyingray on April 8, 2009 at 7:37 PM
I can said this. There are so many new gun owners that swell our ranks in the past six months. These gun owners have been flocking to gun forums which are dominated by conservatives. Hence we are able to influence them and maybe their votes in the next election.
The NRA understand this and they are giving away one free year of membership.
http://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/
jdun on April 8, 2009 at 7:47 PM
Pretty much everyone realizes that if they don’t have a gun, the wrong people will have a gun…and someone is at the “short end of the stick”.
Finally they understand, anyone can get a gun…anyone, whether legal or not, anyone can get a gun. It might as well be them.
right2bright on April 8, 2009 at 7:54 PM
A gun ban is a de facto bill of right for the homicidal maniac. It guarantees his right to shoot as many innocent unarmed people as he can before the cops finally show up.
TheSitRep on April 8, 2009 at 8:02 PM
And it strips the innocent of the right to defend himself and family.
It also puts your safety in the hands of a bunch of donut chomping dorks with small penis syndrome that can only show up after the crime.
TheSitRep on April 8, 2009 at 8:08 PM
After all the rhetoric, lies, skewed stats, bashing, misguided lives and hysteria of the Gun Control Movement; total and utter failure. Victory and Vindication for those who defend their lives, the NRA and others.
I actually feel sorry for people like Peter Shields, who lost his son in a shooting and then funded this movement out of grief. As example of misguided life however, he is an example for all:
In the 1970’s the organization called “Nation of Islam” opened a program out of mosque #16 in San Francisco to swell the ranks of their “Death Angels” that was stared in the 1950’s (Nation of Islam itself goes back to the 1930’s). The Death Angels were men who earned “points” for killing in cold blood a certain number of Whites. Usually they picked people camping or broken down by the side of the road. Over 270 unsolved murders were linked to the Nation of Islam but were unprovable. This new class was composed of 5 men just out of prison who were deemed reliable and were counseled on the “rules” (no robbing or raping the victims, victim must die for the points to be awarded, extra points for women or children, etc) and were extolled to kill the Blue Eyed Devils. Over the course of several months this new group operated inside of San Francisco and racked up 23 dead or wounded. The victims were killed in various ways, Hacked with a machete, shot, stabbed, etc. Most of the gunshot victims were shot with a stolen .32 Browning automatic (which was eventually discarded, recovered and used to help solve these crimes); including Pete Shield’s son, who was putting away Lacrosse equipment that he had in his car. He was shot three times in the back at close range because he was white, handsome, athletic and just happen to standing in a park parking lot when a “Death Angel” wannabe came up behind him.
Grieving, Pete Shields blamed the existence of guns and devoted a large portion of his time, effort, and money to trying to ban handguns, including starting Handgun Control, Inc (which later became the Brady Campaign after Jim Brady was wounded by a Presidential assassin). The victims who were killed with stabbing or cutting tools, tortured and killed with boiling water or murdered in other ways were ignored.
.
The book on these crimes is called “Zebra” by Clark Howard. Excellent reading if you want to get into the mind of the enemy. You will understand why blacks use code terms like “Devil, Blue eyed Devil, Snake, Grafted Snake”, etc. in public, what Rev. Wright was all about (his bodyguards at the Washington D.C. hotel where he spoke at after coming out of hiding during the Obama Campaign were Nation of Islam soldiers*), what Dr. Cone and Louis Farrakhan have openly spoken about, published and have planned for Whites, what rappers mean when they talk about “taking down the snakes” and “Gating the devils”. It is not for your children to hear, believe me, and few in the MSM talk about it.
*Nation of Islam has never renounced the “Death Angels” nor discontinued their work. Astonishingly, the organization is now larger and stronger than ever (See Black Muslim Bakery, Ron Dellums, Baghdad by the Bay) and will one day have to be destroyed, like the British did to the Thuggee cult in India. The term “Death Angel” is still used, though the ordinary foot soldiers are now referred to as the “Fruit of Islam”.
**I should add the correction that the 270 unsolved Murders in the comment above were for California alone, between 1965 and 1974. The total for the Country and for those murders going back to the 1950’s is much higher. It is also speculated that the “Smiley” killers are Nation of Islam trainees.
GunRunner on April 8, 2009 at 8:10 PM
My theory: People like guns. But beware of buying an SR9, mine broke after the 3rd shot. Luckily I bought the warranty too.
AbaddonsReign on April 8, 2009 at 8:11 PM
GunRunner on April 8, 2009 at 8:10 PM
Thanks for the book tip.
Disturb the Universe on April 8, 2009 at 8:27 PM
Wow, I just checked out the entry on concealed carry in the U.S. in wikipedia and found a rather striking graphic that shows the changes in laws from 1986 to 2006. The map is striking in that it shows a clear movement towards more permissive laws on concealed carry to the point that now the vast majority of states have shall issue laws where they didn’t in 1986.
Ash on April 8, 2009 at 8:27 PM
The polling has become more sophisticated over the years.
Vince on April 8, 2009 at 8:56 PM
Lock and load. Lets roll.
johnnyU on April 8, 2009 at 9:06 PM
Guns good .. fascists bad.
Benjamin9 on April 8, 2009 at 9:12 PM
Not too hard to understand that if every crewman would have had a gun on the Alabama relief ship we would not even be talking pirates.
They would have been fish food.
Anyone with half a brain won’t trust goberment to protect them from the drug crazed, drunken, baby makin, welfare pros, with their pants halfway to their ankles, and their attitudes just a tad bit under Hussein Obamamas.
We’ll protect ourselves thankyou!
Tea Party Time!
Palin/Plumber 2012
dhunter on April 8, 2009 at 9:14 PM
Don’t pull that trigger
(Annie get your gun)
Don’t shoot that singer
(You’re shooting number one)
He’s not into miracles (Allahpundit)
Sees life all too cynical (Allahpundit)
The cat has got his tongue
Now she bangs on his drum
He says pull the other one
Bells ring, look what you have done
Emotions leaking out
Her paint’s all over town
juanito on April 8, 2009 at 9:17 PM
Simple explanation…cops can’t prevent crime, but armed, law-abiding citizens can.
Gun sales are astronomical here in Kaleefornia. When I filled out the twenty pages of paperwork to get my Remington 870, the sales guy informed me that gun shops in the state are selling firearms at a rate of about 400 per day. Even buckshot seems to be in short supply in my area.
Oh, and I’ll be putting in my paperwork for a handgun this week. Clip or revolver? I’m thinking revolver, preferably a Colt or S&W since it can double as a collector’s item/investment later on.
TheMightyMonarch on April 8, 2009 at 10:01 PM
Since 1960 there have been a bunch of gun laws passed with no discernible positive effect.
In 1960 you could mail-order rifles. I would guess that M1 Garands were available as surplus by 1960, so you could put maybe $100 in an envelope, mail it off, and a few weeks later a real “military semi-automatic assault rifle” shows up at your door.
I think people have seen gun-bans, registration, background checks and all that garbage passed, and the same groups keep wanting more. Those of us who have paid attention for a few decades have seen the pattern: “It’s just a little common-sense regulation to keep guns out of the wrong hands”, but then, even as the new law is being signed, they say: “Well, that’s very nice, yes, it’s a good first step.”
So, given the uselessness of the new laws, and the clear fact that nothing short of a total ban on everything (guns, knives, pepper spray, dirty words) will please the perennial anti-gunners, maybe people are actually “getting it”.
Rodent on April 8, 2009 at 10:08 PM
Not so much in my neck of the woods. Our county (Alameda, which covers Oakland and the surrounding suburbs) has issued exactly four conceal permits in the last five years. Two of them were for retired cops and two for private citizens dealing with restraining order violations.
Yeah, preventing law-abiding citizens has done wonders here. We all know what a crime-free paradise Oakland is.
TheMightyMonarch on April 8, 2009 at 10:12 PM
Sure. When the citizenry feel confident in their governments’ ability and resolve to protect their persons and property, the desire (or need) for a weapon decreases. And vice versa.
Since the end of WWII, this country has been on a continuing slide towards dependence, instead of independence, on government. In the 1960s, the Great Society experiment gave us handcuffed law enforcement, luxury jails w/cable TV, life saving medical procedures for inmates serving life sentences, etc. The citizenry is losing faith in the governments ability, dare I say desire, to protect them from enemies within, and now that loss of faith extends to a perceived inability to protect us from enemies without.
This is what is reflected by the slide in gun control support.
And thanks to all those who’ve already stocked up on ammo and depleted the armories. Has anyone priced .357 mag ammo lately? Christ, I have to slum down to .38 ammo for my Python.
BobMbx on April 8, 2009 at 10:15 PM
If you’re gonna carry, go with a magazine feed. A big one. I own revolvers, and one of the hard things to do quickly is reload, even using speedloaders. I may pick up a 9mm Barreta just for the extra rounds available between reloading vs. a revolver. Some good advice: If you have to reload, you need to do it fast.
If you say “clip” again I’m afraid I’ll have to smack you. Unless you’re referring to a weapon such as the M1 Garand, which uses a 5 round clip.
BobMbx on April 8, 2009 at 10:22 PM
In the days after Katrina – a firearm was one of the more important items you could have.
Packs of wild dogs – starving – roaming the streets. One got after my wife and I could not stop him through any other means. Looters – a friend of mine in Chalmette said he shot every bullet he had keeping them away.
The fabric of civilization is thinner than most think. People may not remember the Rodney King riots in LA – where the cops abandoned the area in the vicinity of the riots. Korean store owners protected their property with firearms – from atop their roofs.
The Supreme Court has ruled that the cops aren’t responsible to keep YOU safe. When it comes to the safety of your family – YOU are the one responsible. Trust me – you want a firearm.
I would suggest an SKS – modified with a TAPCO stock and other goodies – throw anything and everything on it that makes it look every bit the assault rifle we love the Democrats to hate.
HondaV65 on April 8, 2009 at 10:27 PM
You certainly don’t have to be Einstein to know this answer…
Remember… how close are we to a Con Con …just two states…
We The People…trust the government less and less…by the hour.
jerrytbg on April 8, 2009 at 10:29 PM
Hey, gimme a break, I’m a new gun owner. =P
TheMightyMonarch on April 8, 2009 at 10:30 PM
Welcome aboard Mighty! Join the NRA, and fire some handguns before you decide.
You need something you are comfortable and reasonably accurate with to 30-50 feet. Revolvers are generally less prone to hang fires, but are limited in rounds and slower to reload. I like em though.
dhunter on April 8, 2009 at 10:39 PM
All men,women, persons are created equal.
Col. Sam Colt mad some more equal.
If you chose not to carry OK.We may help you if you ask and we will stop the violence,conditions being proper. We do need a good Samartin Law for CHL holders to prevent the civil suits and hassle with the DA.
Col.John Wm. Reed on April 8, 2009 at 10:42 PM
dhunter,
correct me if I’m wrong…a revolver uses a star “clip”,
as in speed loading…:)
jerrytbg on April 8, 2009 at 10:43 PM
jerrytbg:
You’re wrong.
Revolvers in “auto-rim” or autopistol calibers (with a rim that does not extend past the case body) can be placed in a “moon clip” that holds them together and keeps them from sliding into the chamber. If the clip is split in two pieces, it’s referred to as a “half-moon clip.”
It’s not primarily for speed-loading, but to keep the primer back by the firing pin.
There are devices made for speed-loading revolvers. They’re called speed-loaders.
Merovign on April 8, 2009 at 10:59 PM
TheMightMonarch:
Every time I go into Sportsman’s Warehouse, or Wild Sports, or any other store around here, I see AT LEAST 1-2 people doing paperwork and 1-2 more people picking up.
In an hour or two.
At one store.
It’s a lot more than 400 a day.
Merovign on April 8, 2009 at 11:03 PM
Speedloader is a brand, star clip is a description used by some to describe speedloaders. Most target shooters use a cylindrical speedloader with 5 rounds leaving the one below the firing pin empty. Some load six if firing pin is not exposed on that model of revolver.
dhunter on April 8, 2009 at 11:03 PM
I stand corrected…I’m an autoloader myself…min with a revolver… thanks for the clarification…:)
jerrytbg on April 8, 2009 at 11:04 PM
It’s great that the support is an all-time low, but we have the values of the MSM to thank that it’s not even lower. I would argue that any reasonable person would get a clue about why gun control is a bad idea, after what happened in Mumbai, India. The terrorism in Mumbai could not have gone on like it did if the populace had been armed, but India has gun control.
And muslims, being muslims, will do get around to having their holy jihads in our shopping malls. The smart money is on the muslims jihading in states with gun control laws.
thuja on April 8, 2009 at 11:10 PM
dhunter, Merovign,
When I say I have minimum exp with revolvers I mean to say I don’t own one but do fire one of two Blackhawk’s 5…6…times a year…surprisingly little recoil effect for the power…that’s with the full magnum load….I personally like the idea of changing a magazine and having another 15 rounds…for the hordes that is….J
jerrytbg on April 8, 2009 at 11:17 PM
Unified Theory on why support for gun control has drastically declined in the last half-century: In 1959, the Federal Gov’t (and all levels of gov’t) still had an enormous reservoir of credibility and goodwill banked from the Depression and WWII. Crime levels were low, and the perception that the government is corrupt, incompetent and unresponsive to the needs and desires of the average citizen had not yet taken hold. Over the ensuing decades, as crime rose and government squandered its credibility (Vietnam, Great Society, Watergate, Warren Court lunacy, 1965 immigration act, economic & fiscal mismanagement, etc. ), people grew more resistant to the idea of being disarmed. Support for gun rights also has become a deeply held symbolic value for conservatives, even those who don’t own guns, much as abortion has become a virtual obsession for liberals who will never need an abortion. One difference, of course, is that gun rights are actually in the Constitution.
Travis Bickle on April 8, 2009 at 11:18 PM
thuja,
you don’t know how right you are…good insight…
jerrytbg on April 8, 2009 at 11:22 PM
Allah you really are scum
bill30097 on April 8, 2009 at 11:44 PM
Virginia Tech was Perfect a example of the insanity of the “gun free zone” How many other recent shootings happened in a “criminal safe zone”?
Obama has plenty of cunning people working to further his agenda. Don’t be fooled, he may back off hand gun ownership but the assault weapon ban is right around the corner.
Note: .45 will get owned by 5.56 or 7.62 99% of the time.
Remember: The 2nd amendment is not about owning a hunting rifle.
Badbrucskie on April 9, 2009 at 12:49 AM
The Colt or S&W you might be considering as being worthy as a collector’s item later on would be those romantic looking single action revolvers. To fire, those require you to pull the hammer all the way back until it “cocks,” then you can pull the trigger. That is a slow process and actually enjoyable AT THE RANGE but you don’t want such for protection purposes. It’s confusing for some, but the single-action/double-action term refers to what is accomplished when you pull the trigger. A single action trigger will only drop a pre-cocked hammer. A double action trigger both raises the hammer and drops it.
Another note about single-action revolvers is that the cylinder stays completely in the frame at all times (unless disassembled) so loading and unloading is accomplished via a loading gate ONE SINGLE CARTRIDGE AT A TIME, and that’s not what you want in a personal/family defense situation. A double-action revolver cylinder swings out on a crane for unloading and reloading and is infinitely easier to deal with.
Double action revolvers generally have exposed hammers so you can cock it if you wish and then have an easier pull on the trigger to drop it. This is NOT what you want to do in a stress situation, especially if you are a newbie. The trigger is very sensitive when the hammer is cocked, and it takes little to drop it. You only want the gun to go off when you make a deliberate trigger pull, not an accidental one.
If there is a chance that your new weapon will be available to other members of the family in an emergency, and do consider that in a crisis you may very well wish to arm a family member that is not well-trained, then what is called a double-action-only revolver has a lot going for it. In this case the hammer is completely enclosed so a newbie cannot cock it, one can only pull the trigger. Can you imagine the stress of dealing with a family member that cocked the gun LIKE SHE SAW IN THE MOVIES but doesn’t have the strength/training/sense to carefully lower the hammer without creating a discharge of the weapon? The hammer has to go down before you can even unload the gun, and there are two ways to do it, safely, or not so safely.
Double-action-only revolvers, because they lack a protruding hammer on the tail end, are easier to draw in the sense that they won’t snag on clothing, and if you have to fire through your robe pocket in a front-door confrontation type scenario fabric cannot block the hammer and prevent it from firing.
Double-action-only revolvers like the S&W Centennial series are very well made and very popular, and Ruger has come out with the LCR, a partially polymer framed double-action-only revolver that shoots easier than the Centennials and is worth a look. They also can come very light and they are small, making them good choices for ankle carry and other situation.
Semi-automatic pistols, what I think you were referencing with your “clip” comment, are loaded via removable MAGAZINES, and can hold much more firepower than a revolver. Those Centennials are five shot, pistols can carry much more and reload much quicker. BUT, they require more training and more practice, and will be harder to expect a family member that has not trained with it to cover your back with it in a pinch. Although I might get smacked by folks saying one must always train train train, you need to be real honest with yourself about how much training you can and will actually do, and whether you trust any others that might need it to be able to deal with it in a crisis.
I have a Centennial and plan on getting a Ruger LCR and though I just upgraded to a pistol, I will never lose those simple revolvers because I simply cannot ask my wife who has yet to handle a firearm and who has very delicate hands to master all involved with a more complicated firearm. When the day comes that I carry concealed I’ll always have a revolver around for my wife to use if need be.
I don’t want to open a can of worms by telling you there is a best semi-automatic pistol out there, as they vary tremendously in operating methods with various safeties and magazine release buttons and such, not to mention that pistols also come in single and double action and also double-action-only varieties. I favor the double-action-only variety for the sake of simplicity and safety. Glock makes a good gun that requires you to simply pull the trigger without releasing safeties, but there are other guns in that game now and I find Glocks too big for my hands and their mag release buttons too hard to push. If you’re interested, I’d suggest looking at a Springfield Armory XD, which has some very unique features, is an ergonomic dream, and is very affordable. It’s made in Croatia but don’t let that stop you, Springfield Armory does good guns.
Comes in caliber of your choice, everyone likes 9mm, some folks like the hot.40 cal, but I favor the .45 not simply for the bullet size, but because the chamber pressure on that cartridge is much lower than the .40 making the .40 a bit of a kicker and the .45 a pleasure that feels more like pushing back than kicking up. I’m not saying the .40 is uncontrollable, but it requires more effort to recover from the recoil and regain the target.
Getting back to capacity and magazines, my XD-45 Compact comes with a ten round mag and a thirteen round mag. Carry the gun with “one in the pipe” (a round chambered, yes, it’s safe) with the ten round mag to make the gun easier to conceal, carry the thirteen rounder as a spare, and you have two dozen rounds of very effective ammunition available.
Hope I didn’t bore anyone, just trying to shorten the learning curve for those Patriots getting their acts together, but you’ll find gun folks are the nicest people, so you’ll find plenty of help out there. But please do do yourself a favor and do your homework before you buy.
That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.
(If Zero hires Acorn to find all our guns, you never read this or heard of a guy named Maquis!)
Maquis on April 9, 2009 at 3:48 AM
theory?
it is simple really. Americians have seen the results of gun control. Mainly more crime. americians are not stupid. they see the numbers. The fact is that there is more crime in high gun controlled areas. Thus Americians reject gun control laws
unseen on April 9, 2009 at 3:53 AM
Not so much in my neck of the woods. Our county (Alameda, which covers Oakland and the surrounding suburbs) has issued exactly four conceal permits in the last five years. Two of them were for retired cops and two for private citizens dealing with restraining order violations.
Yeah, preventing law-abiding citizens has done wonders here. We all know what a crime-free paradise Oakland is.
TheMightyMonarch on April 8, 2009 at 10:12 PM
And yet somehow a criminal got a gun and killed 4 police. gun control works so well
unseen on April 9, 2009 at 3:59 AM
Virginia Tech was, though I’ve yet to see anyone ever risk saying it, an example of cowardice. ONE person, ONE holocaust survivor, blocks a door with his body and directs students to flee, losing his life in the process. At one point the bad guy lines up I think ten guys against a wall in a room and takes his sweet time shooting them one by one all down the line. Did the guy at the end of the line think he was going to run out of ammunition before he was up for target practice? They knew they were going to die but none of them knew that they could overwhelm their attacker if they all or even some of them charged him? So what if one or two got shot in the process? So what if it was a mortal wound? When one has an opportunity to spare others and his own life is probably already forfeit, how can one stand there sniveling? My high school, twenty years after I left, had a lone miscreant shooting and a kid did indeed save the day by charging him, getting shot but surviving. A high-schooler understood honor and sacrifice but his “betters” pursuing their dreams of glory at an institution of higher learning managed to exhibit none of those attributes.
I personally was ashamed when I heard what happened, and I have no connection whatsoever with the institution. American men, age-wise they were men, stood like dumb sheep before a sole shooter and let them take their lives knowing that he would go on to seek other innocent lives, and they did not act.
I did not recognize America that day.
Our campuses do indeed need the right to conceal carry, but they also need thriving ROTC programs, so at least some of the populace will be learning about honor and sacrifice.
Maquis on April 9, 2009 at 4:04 AM
More than likely it’s because of alternative media (yes, that’s a kudos to you).
We don’t have to settle for being spoon-fed the prevailing wisdom of the msm. Now that the actual facts are available even the sheeple are beginning to make up their own minds.
If we survive the next four years, we just may make it.
Squiggy on April 9, 2009 at 6:40 AM
Yeah, AP, enough libtards finally realized that the way to make money was to embrace capitalism in secret or ride the stock market to wealth, they finally got some money, bought some nice stuff, some crackhead stole their stuff, they have a “come-to-Jesus” moment where they realized: “Hey, if I’d had a gun, I wouldn’t have gotten my benz jacked!”, hence, they become converts…
/sarc (kinda)
TASS71 on April 9, 2009 at 7:34 AM
It also puts your safety in the hands of a bunch of donut chomping dorks with small penis syndrome that can only show up after the crime.
TheSitRep on April 8, 2009 at 8:08 PM
Care to defend that statement?
Dan859 on April 9, 2009 at 8:08 AM
Might could be people like the taste of freedom…
Jed1899 on April 9, 2009 at 8:56 AM
Oh, and I’ll be putting in my paperwork for a handgun this week. Clip or revolver? I’m thinking revolver, preferably a Colt or S&W since it can double as a collector’s item/investment later on.
TheMightyMonarch
Any well-made firearm, properly maintained, can be passed down to your children and most average citizens won’t “shoot out” their guns like a competitor might. Beware unscrupulous people selling “collector” guns that may be rag-wrenched junk or less desireable firearms with false markings made to look collectible. Revolvers are good defense weapons for newbies (in double-action mode they are less likely to go “bang” in the hands of the nervious), but so are shotguns, and in face to face confrontations the bad guy staring down the big bore pointed at his head will soil himself and shots may never need to be fired. In short, you can buy for self-defense and for collector value, but you ought to consider keeping those ideas separate. The self-defense weapon needs to be used repeatedly on the practice range and you might not want to put many rounds through a collector’s item.
SKYFOX on April 9, 2009 at 9:53 AM
I purchased my first firearm end of last year… a Yugo SKS that looks absolutely WICKED. I had to disassemble it to get all the cosmoline out of the gas tube, but now is an absolute joy to fire. I can’t wait until Easter. All my lib relatives getting together at my conservative mom & dads… and Dad said I could bring it to shoot! I’m going to give them fits! :)
dominigan on April 9, 2009 at 10:19 AM
Unless you’re referring to a weapon such as the M1 Garand, which uses a 5 round clip.
I’m pretty sure the en bloc clip holds 8 rounds.
Kai on April 9, 2009 at 11:16 AM
Dammit, I need a battle rifle!
Curse this downturn economy for laying off the wife. Esp. right after having our second rugrat.
:(
Kai on April 9, 2009 at 11:17 AM
SitRep, where are you?? I’m still waiting.
Dan859 on April 9, 2009 at 1:02 PM
Maquis on April 9, 2009 at 4:04 AM
Beautiful.
I talked to my boys about this the day after. All of them were appalled that this could happen with guys in the room. My 14 year old said they acted like the Jews in Germany, going right to the gas chambers without fighting to live.
I was so proud.
GunRunner on April 9, 2009 at 1:56 PM
As well you should be, you are blessed to have sons like that, so is our country.
Maquis on April 9, 2009 at 4:07 PM
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