Fortunately, it didn’t come to that

BS Ed. When a foreign pilot enters our airspace without acknowledging our calls unto him, the plane should be IMMEDIATELY SHOT DOWN!

At the time this occurred, no one knew if he was carrying any possible substances, like Anthrax, that could kill a large number of people. That possibility should not go overlooked.

I mean what? Does obunka want to talk with him too?

we private pilots are sick and tired of ignorant people who know nothing about general aviation making our lives more difficult because they’ve bought some idiotic scare story or lunatic suggestion

Boo-freakin’-hoo. Pardon me if I place my free speech rights ahead of your private piloting convenience.

RegularJoe on April 7, 2009 at 4:43 PM

Joe, speaking AS a private pilot in New York, you DO NOT know what you’re talking about. You “used” to be able to travel anywhere you wanted to but not anymore, all because the people in government have no clue about private aircraft. I had flown up the Hudson River and it’s a beautiful view (even now).

Why don’t you ask several of the airports surrounding the D.C area who have suffered because of the same government employees.

Imagine if the government said to you, “You’re not allowed to travel here…or here…or there” Your “free speech” rights are nice but OUR rights to travel SHOULD be the same, considering that there isn’t a valid reason to prevent us pilots from traveling.

As most accounts would have us believe a 33 y.o. male Muslim immigrant is distraught about a lost love and decides to end it all. Of course, he drives to the local airport and happens to find a Cessna 172 fully fueled and ready with the keys in the magneto switch. How lucky for our hero! So he departs on a meandering course until he picks up a couple of F-16s whose attention he has managed to capture, then flys a peculiar route that happens to be precisely magnetic south until imminent fuel starvation forces him to land. He proceeds to the nearest convenience store for a bottle of Gatorade and awaits his ride back into town. When arrested he seems almost giddy with excitement and tells his story about trying to get himself shot down by an F-16. It all just makes so much sense, doesn’t it?

No my friends, there is more to this than we know, or may ever know. I don’t think the C-172 is the point. This was not about a specific aircraft, but about defenses, tactics, procedures, processes and perhaps equipment limitations.

The comments from many of you guys is starting to make me believe that conservatives are as paranoid and bigoted as liberals say you are.

MarkTheGreat on April 8, 2009 at 9:04 AM

Did the mask come off? Is your real objection not about stopping vans or shooting down airplanes per se, but about an immigrant from a 99% Muslim country being considered potentially a terrorist?

You say paranoid; I say realistic and cautious — and unapologetic for being so.

The comments from many of you guys is starting to make me believe that conservatives are as paranoid and bigoted as liberals say you are.
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MarkTheGreat on April 8, 2009 at 9:04 AM

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Your comments make me believe that you don’t have the slightest clue about public safety and preventing terrorists and evil doers from harming innocents.
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Your numbers game is insane. What if they could only kill 3 people? Does that make it ok? Ridiculous.

That you believe anyone who doesn’t obey govt orders, immediately should be killed is obvious. You will make Obama so proud.

That you think any van that doesn’t obey the police is a potential terrorist says more about your psyche than it does about mine.

MarkTheGreat on April 8, 2009 at 8:55 AM

Again, I never said “immediately” but if you keep saying it maybe it will come true for you. And do you really think Obama and I are on the same page here philosophically? Really? What is it that you’re drinking that brings you to that insane conclusion?

And in a post 9/11 America you are damn straight that I believe a van that does not pull over when being told to do so by the police is a potential threat…and you’re telling me that nothing should be done until it reaches its destination?

Question my psyche, that’s fine, I think the readers can judge for themselves.

think you’re missing something, though: the percentage of stolen planes that have wrought destruction is higher than the percentage of stolen cars.

RegularJoe on April 7, 2009 at 5:10 PM

1% vs. 0.1%

Hardly justification for destroying the other 99%.

As has been pointed out. The damage that a stolen Cessna can do is much less than the damage a stolen car or van can do.

The argument is only discredited in your brain as you keep leaving out important facts…like the plane or car is surrounded by people in authority and being told to stop…and they don’t stop…and if your car is a panel van headed towards even a “city” (since you want to take the crowd out of it) and the police are telling the panel van to stop and it doesn’t, do you really think they should let the van proceed all the way into the city and park next to the nearest federal building…is that what you really think?

b4itsover on April 7, 2009 at 5:03 PM

That you believe anyone who doesn’t obey govt orders, immediately should be killed is obvious. You will make Obama so proud.

That you think any van that doesn’t obey the police is a potential terrorist says more about your psyche than it does about mine.

He could easily have dropped a grenade or some other explosive out of his window and killed a few holy innocent civilians. I guess innocent civilians don’t count if the perpetrator is a Jihadist.
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It is the government’s responsibility to protect the public and if a plane or a car or truck does not respond to a command to stop, successively more extreme efforts need to be used to stop the driver up to and including termination in short order. Otherwise, they will bear the responsibility of any damage or death of innocents.

2009 at 5:55 PMskydaddy on April 7,

It would not take much effort to bring down most prop driven air craft. If a jet makes a high speed pass in front of a prop driven craft, unless the pilot is worth his salt, the wake turbulence can throw the air craft out of control. Most civilian pilots panic when their aircraft is suddenly inverted, leaving a nasty stain in the upholstery.

+

Fortunately, the US has Berke and might get some answers out of him, but in the end, I’m betting nothing adds up except mental illness.

Mental illness or not, the terrorists eastern young mens club now knows of another way to attack America. Fortunately, we have the child President offering to kiss their arse. Sleep well!

I’m sure the boy will have a long time to consider the answer to that question. First things first, however, who the hell is going to pay for all that jet fuel to chase him over hill and dale?

Me, you say?

Why? (That’s another question).

I’m betting nothing adds up except mental illness.

Even if his initial intention was suicide, amazing how many people who think they want to kill themselves actually change their minds when faced with doing the deed.

skydaddy on April 7, 2009 at 5:55 PM

First I want to apologize for my snark-back comment. It wasn’t really very Christ-like of me, something I aspire to be.

And just to set the record straight, I wasn’t the one who suggested swarms of two- and four-seater prop-jobs. You’ll need to take that one up with that other guy.

Perhaps our conversations would have been more productive if you (and others) had not been so insulting in your dismissal of people with legitimate concerns — by which I mean concern in good faith, not necessarily well-founded. I readily admit — in fact HAVE admitted — that I’m not a guy who knows about this stuff. I’m a computer programmer who tries to keep himself informed and be a responsible citizen, part of which these days includes being on the lookout for weird stuff that could turn out to be signs of danger.

As an aside: being the ignorant sort that I am on these matters, I can’t begin to assess whether you’re correct about some of the regs you’re having to adhere to, or soon may. It’s certainly easy enough for me to imagine pointless regulations coming from that bunch in D.C., but I have no idea if that’s the case here. I only wish you well where Uncle Sam is concerned.

Back to the matter at hand: the thing is that those of us who DON’T know what a plane can do are a bit skittish about this. As a projectile, I’m aware it can’t bring down a skyscraper because I remember well the kid who crashed one into a building right after 9/11; but it might do a fair bit of damage to, say, a crowd at a ball game, or a schoolyard full of kids. Or not. I don’t know — can it? As a ferry, could it move a non-conventional weapon? Can it deploy it? How close to a city would it have to be to be effective? How high in the air or low to the ground? These seem like fair questions to me — some of which a guy like yourself is just the guy to answer, some of which require expertise in WMDs.

And then there are the really out-of-the-box ideas. Letting my imagination go a little wild, what if all he was really doing was getting some short-shelf-life toxin across the border, tossed out the window to an ally a couple of miles into the U.S., the rest of his meandering only a smokescreen? There are just all sorts possibilities, and I’m sure lots of things that SEEM possible to we ignorants, that really isn’t. But consider that a person didn’t have to know a lot about jets to realize that they could be used as missiles, if that person was thinking crazy like some of us are today. In fact, the guy who knows LESS might be MORE likely to think of crazy stuff like that.

As far as any of this causing you grief, all of the speculation and worry on this site has dealt with rogue aircraft crossing into U.S. airspace without clearance, then refusing to immediately land. I assume you don’t have any intention to do that. So look at the bright side: all those bureaucrats might be so busy trying to figure out what to do about that, that they won’t have time to think up silly hoops for law-abiding guys like you to jump through!

I wish you well

My paranoia is not wholly unwarranted. The American people and the agencies charged with ensuring our security routinely blew-off reports and clues that, had they been heeded, may have saved the lives of thousands. Yeah, I guess you can label me a conspiracy theorist (at least on this issue), but I think we should be on very high alert and suspicious of everything now that the White House is occupied by one who has yet to be tested by our enemies and who is likely to live down to their every expectation.