The Curious Case of Yavuz Berke
posted at 10:14 am on April 7, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
When a Canadian Cessna got stolen, it set off a chain of events that looked as though it would result in the first shootdown of a passenger plane over the United States. Fortunately, it didn’t come to that, but the mystery continues. What did a depressed naturalized Canadian intend to do with the plane?
A pilot who allegedly stole a Cessna plane from a Canadian flight school and was pursued for hours across the Midwest by fighter jets, was taken into custody after he landed on a Missouri highway late today and took off running, an FBI spokesman said.
The pilot landed the single engine Cessna 172 on U.S. Highway 60 in Ellsinore, Mo., at approximately 9:50 p.m. ET, and was caught by Missouri State Highway Patrol officers, FBI spokesman Rich Kolko said.
The pilot was identified as Yavuz Berke, formerly known as Adam Leon, a 31-year-old naturalized Canadian citizen who was born in Turkey, Kolko said.
Did Berke intend to commit suicide? He has been treated for depression, and left a “good-bye” note for his girlfriend. Perhaps he hoped to get shot down by the Americans after violating our airspace, but then why land the plane? Why not just nose it down into a cornfield?
For that matter, if he wanted to provoke an attack from the F-16s, Berke could have flown at a major population center. Instead, he avoided them, flying mostly over farmland. At one point, he flew the unpressurized Cessna to 14,000 feet, perhaps hoping to die from hypoxia, but then returned to a safe altitude of 3700 feet before he could pass out.
None of this makes much sense. Fortunately, the US has Berke and might get some answers out of him, but in the end, I’m betting nothing adds up except mental illness.
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I read somewhere that some of these single engine planes can run on standard unleaded.
MarkTheGreat on April 7, 2009 at 11:38 AM
TOTUS did not authorize a shootdown.
This was a dry run to test if TOTUS had balls for a shootdown.
Gird your loins, friends.
faraway on April 7, 2009 at 11:39 AM
A few hundred pounds. Seems like a crop duster would be a better choice since they have built-in dispersal systems. In a 172 he’d have to toss it out the doors or possibly in some models the front windows. Doors on a 172 open against the slipstream so are difficult to open fully while in flight.
DarkCurrent on April 7, 2009 at 11:40 AM
The pilot was identified as Yavuz Berke, formerly known as Adam Leon, a 31-year-old naturalized Canadian citizen who was born in Turkey, Kolko said.
The ABC article asks us to guess the religion. Want to start a pool on this?
(Only 1.9% of the population of Canada is Muslim.)
logis on April 7, 2009 at 11:35 AM
Damn Adam, why did you do it. Did Mohammed promise you some virgins?
FlyoverJ-HawkFan on April 7, 2009 at 11:40 AM
Two words: dirty bomb. And once it got CLOSE to a major landmark/downtown/military installation/etc. — especially upwind — shooting it down would just accomplish wider dispersal.
A question for those of you familiar with this plane and/or yesterday’s prevailing winds: could this fellow have either benefited from brisk tailwinds to achieve the distance he went, or is there any way whatsoever to refuel from inside the cockpit (possibly splicing into the fuel line or something)?
Mind you, he’s most likely just a lone nutjob, but that doesn’t mean that there COULDN’T be a reason for our enemies to test probe us this way, and there’s increased reason for suspicion if he was ‘in-flight refueling’. I hope they check him out very, very closely.
RegularJoe on April 7, 2009 at 11:41 AM
I absolutely believe these are dry runs and testing the reactions of our security. I don’t for a minute buy the “mentally ill” baloney. The Muslim guy who rampaged through the SF Bay Area with his car was ‘mentally ill” & the Muslim guy who rammed his car through that crowded University quad was “mentally ill”….if we would have uncovered the 9/11 plot before it happened, they too would have been labeled “mentally ill”….After all, they left a suicide note too!
I can’t believe you’re taking this at face value, Ed. Let’s do some digging. I have a feeling I know exactly what we’re going to find….
libertyforever on April 7, 2009 at 11:44 AM
NORAD said that 2 F-16′s pacing that 172 cost the US government $500,000. $500 worth of 20 mm rounds could have saved us taxpayers a lot of money which was wasted on this goof.
Shooting him down would have accomplished two things.
(1) He would have gotten his wish – suicide by USAF fighter
(2) Made it clear that violating our airspace means your death if you don’t land immediately when signalled to do so by a US warplane.
What if this were a “diversion” and was a prelude to a real attack? How many F-16′s are on ready 5 strip alert around the country? How many decoys can NORAD chase before there no assets available to deal with a real attack, say one involving a 757? How many tankers would be needed to refuel the fighters, and would there be enough Texaco’s in the air and in the right place to service all of them? I don’t expect anybody on this board to answer these questions (why tip off the enemy). But you get the point.
georgej on April 7, 2009 at 11:45 AM
Give me a break. Everyone wants to make aviation the scapegoat since 9/11, but the facts are that there is more of a chance for terrorists to use other means of delivery than aircraft.
The bottom-line is that this guy was an idiot and probably never even thought out completely what he was going to do once he managed to get the 172 off the ground.
Why are we attacking general aviation and basically KILLING an American dominated industry because of irrational fears that it MIGHT happen again?
The aviation industry has been the most PRO-ACTIVE transportation sector since 9/11 in its efforts to self-regulate and manage security without help or direction from the government.
The TSA is making are lives hell, and we all know that they are just a punch of bearucratic idiots who were doing business as Joe’s Screen Door Repair & Security Service on 9/10 and now they are BADGED, have pretty blue shirts and are justifying their own existence with all this bullsh#@ they try to implement under the guise of “national security”.
The fact is that they operate under the illusion of providing security. Anyone with half a brain knows that they operate 10 steps behind whatever is happening.
This is NOT a threat by general aviation and people need to stop with this nonsense and look to what the reality is. This guy was a brain-dead idiot who wanted some media attention. Period.
Flyboy on April 7, 2009 at 11:45 AM
Two words: dirty bomb. And once it got CLOSE to a major landmark/downtown/military installation/etc. — especially upwind — shooting it down would just accomplish wider dispersal.
RegularJoe on April 7, 2009 at 11:41 AM
Maybe the reason for no shoot down. Maybe we were caught a little off guard.
Alex Martinez on April 7, 2009 at 11:45 AM
A few do, but not common. A stock 172 runs on 100LL avgas. Stopping somewhere out of the way and refueling without being noticed wouldn’t be hard. I’ve refueled at self-serve pumps on rural airfields when there was no one around. Even if there were people around, nobody’s likely to notice unless the F-16s were already in pursuit.
DarkCurrent on April 7, 2009 at 11:46 AM
He might have been angered by America’s shoddy treatment of CAIR.
BL@KBIRD on April 7, 2009 at 11:48 AM
Isn’t it more likely that the media mis-identified the type of plane ?
gh on April 7, 2009 at 11:49 AM
The media make a mistake? About general aviation aircraft no less? You’ve got to be kidding ;)
Possible I suppose, but the 172 is literally the most common aircraft there is. I see no reason to doubt it was a 172.
DarkCurrent on April 7, 2009 at 11:56 AM
What exactly does it take to get shot down? This guy totally ignored everything. He could have been intent on delivering some biologic agent to Madison Wisconsin and no one would have stopped him?
drjohn on April 7, 2009 at 11:56 AM
faraway on April 7, 2009 at 11:56 AM
Because there are better ways to deliver a bomb of any kind other than a Cessna doesn’t mean you can ignore the Cessna that violates our airspace and doesn’t respond to warnings. It should have been shot down, end of story. I hate this freakin’ PC country we’ve become where everyone is worried about the “nut job”…blow the freakin’ nut job out of the sky next time…I could care less that he’s mentally unstable, all the more reason to shoot first and ask questions later.
b4itsover on April 7, 2009 at 11:57 AM
Fuel ranges are based on flying hours times airspeed. Since he was flying downwind, his ground speed was greater than his airspeed, which increased his range, and he probably landed when he noticed he was running out of fuel.
If he was followed by the F-16′s for any length of time, they would have noticed his landing for refueling, and could have radioed airport security where he landed to arrest him.
It’s possible that this was a “dry run” toward a terrorist attack with a small plane, and possibly the F-16s spooked him away from major cities, if he thought they would shoot him down if he got close.
This should be an interesting interrogation.
Steve Z on April 7, 2009 at 11:57 AM
Is this unusual?
faraway on April 7, 2009 at 11:58 AM
The fighter wing here in Madison has a half dozen F-16s flying every day. You can’t really factor in the fuel costs as part of that $500,00.
BadgerHawk on April 7, 2009 at 11:59 AM
I am not sure what this was. We have had a lot of crazy acts to date, and whatever the purpose, it sure makes many of us uneasy.
Mainly because of Mr. Flooffy Pants, formerly known as POTUS, and second, all these defense cut moves made by said so called leader. None of the moves by this Administration, kabuki dancers, sock puppet performers, et al. have added up to anything to reassure the American public that they get our needing to be fiercely protected. We have the Office of Hangnails, Paper cuts and Man Made Disasters, formerly known as Homeland Security, telling us that the word “terrorism” is no longer needed and does not properly describe acts like this guy. To me no matter what was behind his reasoning, it scared or “terrorized” some Americans in the area he was flying over.
Does the act of stealing the plane factor in as a test run? Perhaps it is not the type or ability of the plane that was a factor, but instead the sheer act of being able to steal a private plane. Just wondering.
freeus on April 7, 2009 at 12:02 PM
Because it’s government run healthcare, it’s very hard to get permanently committed in a mental hospital in Canada. I have a friend who is dealing with this, as a spouse is trying to get committed. To do so, because there are so few beds, you have to be really, really mentally ill. It takes a few suicide attempts or other really bad acts to rise up the list enough to get a spot.
So, Canadians have to take more drastic measures if they no longer want to deal with the real world and just veg on lithium the rest of their lives. It’s just more evidence of the wonder that is government run healthcare.
That being said, there should be Cessna parts all over the northern US.
PastorJon on April 7, 2009 at 12:03 PM
How many mentally ill Muslims know how to fly planes?
Why would a person wanting to commit suicide leave his ID at home?
faraway on April 7, 2009 at 12:04 PM
He didn’t. There are no av gas stations in Lake Superior and he didn’t land in the UP. As he flew through the air space over the UP the F-16s had been scrambled from southern Wisconsin. By the time he crossed the Wisconsin border (approx. 15 mins south of the LS shoreline) he had an escort, so he never landed after departing Thunder Bay and prior to landing in Missouri.
The media has a photo of the actual aircraft sitting on the ground in Missouri. It is definitely a 172.
Yoop on April 7, 2009 at 12:04 PM
The article says:
CBC has (also a picture – looks like M Atta):
So someone is misinformed somewhere.
gh on April 7, 2009 at 12:04 PM
faraway on April 7, 2009 at 12:06 PM
Sounds like a test run!
I’m glad this clown never had a small nuke device in
the backseat of said Cessna!
And,as my American neighbours know,there are a lot
of area’s along our shared border that really can’t
be supervised affectively!
canopfor on April 7, 2009 at 12:08 PM
I dont want to sound like a squawking monkey (well maybe a little bit)
A very experienced pilot could fly over the very windswept Lake Superior, manage to fly erattically according to reports and nurse the plane with hefty tailwinds and exact downspeed conditions
but to get a 30% fuel efficiency bonus
And why does a FLIGHT school top off tanks usually they are 3/4 to 1/2
EricPWJohnson on April 7, 2009 at 12:09 PM
I’m sure it was jihad. Clumsy, mental, but jihad.
PattyJ on April 7, 2009 at 12:12 PM
In my experience, yes. I’ve only rented airplanes from a few different FBOs, but the typical practice is to keep the keys in a leather binder with the Pilot’s Operating Manual and “squawk sheet” and given to the pilot when the aircraft is checked out. Although at one of those places I only rented an antique Aeronca Champ that had no keys.
DarkCurrent on April 7, 2009 at 12:13 PM
Well, then waterboard his ass. Dammit!
FlyoverJ-HawkFan on April 7, 2009 at 12:13 PM
gh
The flight school where the plane was stolen is alot farther away about 1700 km
Also he was following highways
Flying lengthwise through 4 northsouth orientated states starting from mid-lower Canada is not 600 miles
Not even close
EricPWJohnson on April 7, 2009 at 12:16 PM
I live in Thunder Bay.With the winter we’ve had,no wonder he was depressed.
spareadime on April 7, 2009 at 12:16 PM
The Curious Case of Yavuz Berkeposted at 10:14 am on April 7, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
Send to a Friend | Share on Facebook | printer-friendly When a Canadian Cessna got stolen, it set off a chain of events that looked as though it would result in the first shootdown of a passenger plane over the United States. Fortunately, it didn’t come to that, but the mystery continues. What did a depressed naturalized Canadian intend to do with the plane?
A pilot who allegedly stole a Cessna plane from a Canadian flight school and was pursued for hours across the Midwest by fighter jets, was taken into custody after he landed on a Missouri highway late today and took off running, an FBI spokesman said.
The pilot landed the single engine Cessna 172 on U.S. Highway 60 in Ellsinore, Mo., at approximately 9:50 p.m. ET, and was caught by Missouri State Highway Patrol officers, FBI spokesman Rich Kolko said.
The pilot was identified as Yavuz Berke, formerly known as Adam Leon, a 31-year-old naturalized Canadian citizen who was born in Turkey, Kolko said.
Did Berke intend to commit suicide? He has been treated for depression, and left a “good-bye” note for his girlfriend. Perhaps he hoped to get shot down by the Americans after violating our airspace, but then why land the plane? Why not just nose it down into a cornfield?
For that matter, if he wanted to provoke an attack from the F-16s, Berke could have flown at a major population center. Instead, he avoided them, flying mostly over farmland. At one point, he flew the unpressurized Cessna to 14,000 feet, perhaps hoping to die from hypoxia, but then returned to a safe altitude of 3700 feet before he could pass out.
None of this makes much sense. Fortunately, the US has Berke and might get some answers out of him, but in the end, I’m betting nothing adds up except mental illness.
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He probably landed somewhere and gased up without being noticed. Self-service fuel is commonly available.
DarkCurrent on April 7, 2009 at 11:27 AM
I read somewhere that some of these single engine planes can run on standard unleaded.
MarkTheGreat on April 7, 2009 at 11:38 AM
TOTUS did not authorize a shootdown.
This was a dry run to test if TOTUS had balls for a shootdown.
Gird your loins, friends.
faraway on April 7, 2009 at 11:39 AM
How much nerve gas or other toxins could a plane that size carry and how much damage would an air born pathogen do? I’m still not ruling out dry run.
b4itsover on April 7, 2009 at 11:25 AM
A few hundred pounds. Seems like a crop duster would be a better choice since they have built-in dispersal systems. In a 172 he’d have to toss it out the doors or possibly in some models the front windows. Doors on a 172 open against the slipstream so are difficult to open fully while in flight.
DarkCurrent on April 7, 2009 at 11:40 AM
The pilot was identified as Yavuz Berke, formerly known as Adam Leon, a 31-year-old naturalized Canadian citizen who was born in Turkey, Kolko said.
The ABC article asks us to guess the religion. Want to start a pool on this?
(Only 1.9% of the population of Canada is Muslim.)
logis on April 7, 2009 at 11:35 AM
Damn Adam, why did you do it. Did Mohammed promise you some virgins?
FlyoverJ-HawkFan on April 7, 2009 at 11:40 AM
Come on guys, we are talking about a Cessna here.
Even loaded to the maximum with high explosives and flying at maximum speed, most modern buildings wouldn’t even notice that they had been ht.
MarkTheGreat on April 7, 2009 at 10:34 AM
Two words: dirty bomb. And once it got CLOSE to a major landmark/downtown/military installation/etc. — especially upwind — shooting it down would just accomplish wider dispersal.
A question for those of you familiar with this plane and/or yesterday’s prevailing winds: could this fellow have either benefited from brisk tailwinds to achieve the distance he went, or is there any way whatsoever to refuel from inside the cockpit (possibly splicing into the fuel line or something)?
Mind you, he’s most likely just a lone nutjob, but that doesn’t mean that there COULDN’T be a reason for our enemies to test probe us this way, and there’s increased reason for suspicion if he was ‘in-flight refueling’. I hope they check him out very, very closely.
RegularJoe on April 7, 2009 at 11:41 AM
I absolutely believe these are dry runs and testing the reactions of our security. I don’t for a minute buy the “mentally ill” baloney. The Muslim guy who rampaged through the SF Bay Area with his car was ‘mentally ill” & the Muslim guy who rammed his car through that crowded University quad was “mentally ill”….if we would have uncovered the 9/11 plot before it happened, they too would have been labeled “mentally ill”….After all, they left a suicide note too!
I can’t believe you’re taking this at face value, Ed. Let’s do some digging. I have a feeling I know exactly what we’re going to find….
libertyforever on April 7, 2009 at 11:44 AM
NORAD said that 2 F-16’s pacing that 172 cost the US government $500,000. $500 worth of 20 mm rounds could have saved us taxpayers a lot of money which was wasted on this goof.
Shooting him down would have accomplished two things.
(1) He would have gotten his wish – suicide by USAF fighter
(2) Made it clear that violating our airspace means your death if you don’t land immediately when signalled to do so by a US warplane.
What if this were a “diversion” and was a prelude to a real attack? How many F-16’s are on ready 5 strip alert around the country? How many decoys can NORAD chase before there no assets available to deal with a real attack, say one involving a 757? How many tankers would be needed to refuel the fighters, and would there be enough Texaco’s in the air and in the right place to service all of them? I don’t expect anybody on this board to answer these questions (why tip off the enemy). But you get the point.
georgej on April 7, 2009 at 11:45 AM
I think the people commenting about the Cesna not being a threat have not thought out completely the biological attack scenario. How much nerve gas or other toxins could a plane that size carry and how much damage would an air born pathogen do? I’m still not ruling out dry run.
Give me a break. Everyone wants to make aviation the scapegoat since 9/11, but the facts are that there is more of a chance for terrorists to use other means of delivery than aircraft.
The bottom-line is that this guy was an idiot and probably never even thought out completely what he was going to do once he managed to get the 172 off the ground.
Why are we attacking general aviation and basically KILLING an American dominated industry because of irrational fears that it MIGHT happen again?
The aviation industry has been the most PRO-ACTIVE transportation sector since 9/11 in its efforts to self-regulate and manage security without help or direction from the government.
The TSA is making are lives hell, and we all know that they are just a punch of bearucratic idiots who were doing business as Joe’s Screen Door Repair & Security Service on 9/10 and now they are BADGED, have pretty blue shirts and are justifying their own existence with all this bullsh#@ they try to implement under the guise of “national security”.
The fact is that they operate under the illusion of providing security. Anyone with half a brain knows that they operate 10 steps behind whatever is happening.
This is NOT a threat by general aviation and people need to stop with this nonsense and look to what the reality is. This guy was a brain-dead idiot who wanted some media attention. Period.
Flyboy on April 7, 2009 at 11:45 AM
Two words: dirty bomb. And once it got CLOSE to a major landmark/downtown/military installation/etc. — especially upwind — shooting it down would just accomplish wider dispersal.
RegularJoe on April 7, 2009 at 11:41 AM
Maybe the reason for no shoot down. Maybe we were caught a little off guard.
Alex Martinez on April 7, 2009 at 11:45 AM
I read somewhere that some of these single engine planes can run on standard unleaded.
MarkTheGreat on April 7, 2009 at 11:38 AM
A few do, but not common. A stock 172 runs on 100LL avgas. Stopping somewhere out of the way and refueling without being noticed wouldn’t be hard. I’ve refueled at self-serve pumps on rural airfields when there was no one around. Even if there were people around, nobody’s likely to notice unless the F-16s were already in pursuit.
DarkCurrent on April 7, 2009 at 11:46 AM
He might have been angered by America’s shoddy treatment of CAIR.
BL@KBIRD on April 7, 2009 at 11:48 AM
DarkCurrent on April 7, 2009 at 11:46 AM
Isn’t it more likely that the media mis-identified the type of plane ?
gh on April 7, 2009 at 11:49 AM
Isn’t it more likely that the media mis-identified the type of plane ?
gh on April 7, 2009 at 11:49 AM
The media make a mistake? About general aviation aircraft no less? You’ve got to be kidding ;)
Possible I suppose, but the 172 is literally the most common aircraft there is. I see no reason to doubt it was a 172.
DarkCurrent on April 7, 2009 at 11:56 AM
What exactly does it take to get shot down? This guy totally ignored everything. He could have been intent on delivering some biologic agent to Madison Wisconsin and no one would have stopped him?
drjohn on April 7, 2009 at 11:56 AM
He is then believed to have hitched a ride to a nearby convenience store where he remained until police came into the location to arrest him.
When police arrived to arrest Leon, he told them he had no identification, but that he was the person they were looking for. He was reportedly sipping Gatorade and waiting to be arrested.
faraway on April 7, 2009 at 11:56 AM
Because there are better ways to deliver a bomb of any kind other than a Cessna doesn’t mean you can ignore the Cessna that violates our airspace and doesn’t respond to warnings. It should have been shot down, end of story. I hate this freakin’ PC country we’ve become where everyone is worried about the “nut job”…blow the freakin’ nut job out of the sky next time…I could care less that he’s mentally unstable, all the more reason to shoot first and ask questions later.
b4itsover on April 7, 2009 at 11:57 AM
Fuel ranges are based on flying hours times airspeed. Since he was flying downwind, his ground speed was greater than his airspeed, which increased his range, and he probably landed when he noticed he was running out of fuel.
If he was followed by the F-16’s for any length of time, they would have noticed his landing for refueling, and could have radioed airport security where he landed to arrest him.
It’s possible that this was a “dry run” toward a terrorist attack with a small plane, and possibly the F-16s spooked him away from major cities, if he thought they would shoot him down if he got close.
This should be an interesting interrogation.
Steve Z on April 7, 2009 at 11:57 AM
The biggest question, Miller said, is why the keys would have been left in the plane — an almost unheard of practice,
Is this unusual?
faraway on April 7, 2009 at 11:58 AM
NORAD said that 2 F-16’s pacing that 172 cost the US government $500,000. $500 worth of 20 mm rounds could have saved us taxpayers a lot of money which was wasted on this goof.
georgej on April 7, 2009 at 11:45 AM
The fighter wing here in Madison has a half dozen F-16s flying every day. You can’t really factor in the fuel costs as part of that $500,00.
BadgerHawk on April 7, 2009 at 11:59 AM
As big a pussy, as lefty Madison Wi.is. I’m suprised they really cared
FlyoverJ-HawkFan on April 7, 2009 at 12:17 PM
If he was only flying for a couple of hours he wouldn’t have needed to refuel. 1250km is about typical range with reserves.
DarkCurrent on April 7, 2009 at 12:22 PM
You left out the Mariland sniper John “Allen Williams” Muhammad. (But that’s understandable, since that story instantly dissappeared from the public radar once it turned out he didn’t belong to the liberal-approved stereotype of “white guy with a minivan” demographic.)
Look at it the other way. Assume everything the media tell you is true. Muslims comprise less than 2% of the population of the US and Canada. What percentage of these “unfortunate psychotic episodes” come from that tiny sliver?
Now, I’m sure there are numerically more serial killers who belong to the demographic: “White people who own a TV and/or radio, and therefore could theoretically have listened to a conservative talk show at some point in their lives.”
But once you adjust for the size of the groups you’re selecting from, the conclusions liberals draw from the statistics don’t quite hold up.
logis on April 7, 2009 at 12:24 PM
There was an early report yesterday that said he was in a very long glide path over Illinois, reported by the F-16 pilots. That could be when he was losing altitude from his extreme climb over Minnesota, but I would think he would have expended any gain in fuel/range there by his climb to extreme altitude.
As a note to those wondering if he stopped to refuel. He did not stop in Ironwood (IWD) which has a continuously manned refueling that time of day. He also did not stop at Ontonagon, which is unmanned that time of day, because he would have had to call for fuel. There were no other fields avaiable to him in that flight path over the UP, and his escort met him at the Wi-Mi border, so he didn’t stop after that.
He made that flight with the fuel onboard at departure. Lot of luck involved there, or more skill than is evident at this time.
Yoop on April 7, 2009 at 12:25 PM
I think it was CNN which said that this airplane is an extended range model, so it could fly further than most of this type, and might have still had 30 more minutes of fuel.
One of the reports also mentioned that a Customs plane was also following. So he was probably being watched before the fighters reached him.
HotWeaver on April 7, 2009 at 12:27 PM
***
A Cessna with a lightweight “backpack” nuke or Tactical Ballistic Missile nuclear warhead would be a serious threat to a large city. Maximum damage to a city occurs when the bomb is exploded in the air–a ground explosion does not cause the maximum damage. The WW2 bombs were exploded a few thousand feet over the target cities.
***
Chicago seems to be “in range” for a Cessna from Canada.
***
I don’t think the pilot understood how to fly a small aircraft to avoid detection. Going up to high altitude and / or leaving the IFF transponder on makes it easy to find the plane. The 9/11 hijackers knew how to turn off the transponders and how to keep the plane at low altitude to escape Air Traffic Control radar detection and tracking.
***
The fighter plane aircraft can find and track a small plane at low altitude if they get on the scene quickly enough. But getting them up in time and in the right area soon enough is a challenge. The Air Force did a good job on this incident.
***
John Bibb
***
rocketman on April 7, 2009 at 12:27 PM
If a Cessna is good, a rental truck would be 10,000 times better.
We should get the army to blow up every stolen car that threatens to enter a population center, on the assumption that it might have been stolen by terrorists seeking to do us harm.
MarkTheGreat on April 7, 2009 at 12:28 PM
The pilots need a certain number of hours per month to maintain their qualification.
Odds are the chase planes would have been in the air anyway.
MarkTheGreat on April 7, 2009 at 12:29 PM
That’s one out of a thousand Canadians who know how to fly a plane, and one of 50 who are Muslim.
logis on April 7, 2009 at 12:30 PM
Every car that fails to pull over when the police tell it to pull over, should be immeadiately destroyed, in order to protect the public from possible terrorist attacks.
MarkTheGreat on April 7, 2009 at 12:32 PM
According to wikipedia there have been many different models.
Currently only the 172S is in production.
From the description of the proposed 172TD we read:
According to this, the 172R (1996) can fly for at least 5.5 hours and the S (1998) can fly for at least 4.4 hours since the tanks are larger than 44 gallons and we have the fuel consumption rate — at full throttle.
Some of the older models had tanks as large as 62 gallons. For the 172R that would be 7+ hours.
The CBC article says he stole the plane at 2:30 and landed at 8:45 with 30 minutes of fuel left, which is consistent with the fuel consumption rate for the 172R (assuming large enough fuel capacity).
The maximum ranges given would have a safety factor included so the mystery does not seem to be so deep. Perhaps he had a fairly strong following wind and perhaps he gained more range due to the altitude.
Moreover the gross weight is given as about 2500 lbs and I found that the cargo capacity is 800 lbs (4 passengers) so with a single person, the range would be extended somewhat.
gh on April 7, 2009 at 12:37 PM
What a bizarre story.
Sounds like a dry run of some type to me. I’m no pilot or expert but if a guy was trying to commit suicide and went so far as to steal a plane to do it, seems to me he would have closed the deal.
ORconservative on April 7, 2009 at 12:37 PM
They were. The fighter wing in Madison flies a half dozen or so a day.
BadgerHawk on April 7, 2009 at 12:41 PM
Way off … a couple of hours means 600 km/h … it was about 6+ hours (see my post above).
gh on April 7, 2009 at 12:47 PM
If the car is headed towards a crowd of people and is warned several times to stop then yes, yes it should be destroyed. And while this plane may have not been headed towards a major city, I doubt if it had been that the pilots would have been given the green light to take it down…not in this ObamaNation we live in.
b4itsover on April 7, 2009 at 12:49 PM
Yep, they pull the back seat and install a fuel tank. This is how they are ferried from Santa Barbara, Ca to Hawaii. Had a friend who used to do the flights, said it was the most boring flights.
N4646W on April 7, 2009 at 12:51 PM
There is something more here that a “nutjob” in a stolen airplane. The published range for a Cessna 172 is 790 miles; Berke flew 793 miles to Ellsinore, Missouri. His flight path very nearly matches a course along magnetic south. Was he navigating using only his magnetic compass (a primitive device these days)? Why would he do that? Magnetic compass can’t be jammed, but other hi-tech devices can be. Maybe. I don’t know, but something ain’t right about the wide-spread attempt to dismiss this as a mental health issue. http://www.dakotavoice.com
drewas on April 7, 2009 at 12:55 PM
Realized that after I posted. 172s typically cruise around 110 knots or less.
DarkCurrent on April 7, 2009 at 12:56 PM
We should get the army to blow up every stolen car that threatens to enter a population center, on the assumption that it might have been stolen by terrorists seeking to do us harm.
MarkTheGreat on April 7, 2009 at 12:28 PM
———-
Absolutely!
So, there’s a million+ vehicles stolen every year (in 2006, according to the National Insurance Crime Bureau: 1,192,809 ), so figure at least half of them are in large population centers, so 500,000 vehicles divided by 365 days = you’re deploying the army 1370 times every day to go blow up these vehicles and cause lots of collateral damage/death all over major city streets and highways. Congrats on bankrupting your country. Hooray!
Dave Rywall on April 7, 2009 at 12:59 PM
Notify Al Gore!
We’ll have to bill Canada for some Carbon offsets from this illegal plane.
How about it Drywall – better buy one of Al Gore’s earh saving credits for your country.
txdoc on April 7, 2009 at 1:00 PM
That’s like saying “The trips I take on my private jet don’t emit any carbon because they just happen to be going that way when I get on them.”
First of all, the vast majority of military aircraft flights over American territory aren’t armed. There might be many TRAINING flights, but actual PATROL flights are a pretty big deal.
More specifically, when something like this happens, you don’t just have two fighter jets casually alter their flight plans. You also have to scramble at least four more to cover the possibility that this is a diversion. And that ain’t cheap.
logis on April 7, 2009 at 1:00 PM
Every car that fails to pull over when the police tell it to pull over, should be immeadiately destroyed, in order to protect the public from possible terrorist attacks.
MarkTheGreat on April 7, 2009 at 12:32 PM
———-
Welcome to Mark the Great’s police state! Hooray!
Dave Rywall on April 7, 2009 at 1:00 PM
The keys used to be left in the ignitions, but, after 9/11, I think the law requires that they be kept elsewhere.
Some schools keep them locked up in common area so pilots renting planes (as opposed to student’s flying with instructors) can get in a plane and go as scheduled without someone being there. This is usually just at smaller flight schools (1-2 planes and a handfull of students) and would require that he either rented from their before or knew someone that did.
JadeNYU on April 7, 2009 at 1:01 PM
What is a Schweizer SHU-40B?
DarkCurrent on April 7, 2009 at 1:03 PM
Don’t worry, the adults are in charge. /sarc
scalleywag on April 7, 2009 at 1:05 PM
drewas on April 7, 2009 at 12:55 PM
“His flight path very nearly matches a course along magnetic south. Was he navigating using only his magnetic compass (a primitive device these days)?”
Have you actually checked his flight path. South over Lake Superior, south through Wisconsin, all with a tail wind.
Then a change of approx. 120 degrees to a course that took him back to the NW and over into southeastern Minnesota. That was followed by a 180 back into Wisconsin. Then southeastward to SE Wisconsin, followed by southward through Illinois and Missouri.
His course was somewhat erratic at times. He ended up south of where he started, but not on anything like a direct compass course.
Yoop on April 7, 2009 at 1:07 PM
Notify Al Gore!
We’ll have to bill Canada for some Carbon offsets from this illegal plane.
How about it Drywall – better buy one of Al Gore’s earh saving credits for your country.
txdoc on April 7, 2009 at 1:00 PM
————-
Well, Berke is gonna create a lot less co2 while not breathing during the waterboarding he’s about to enjoy, so I figure we’re all even.
Dave Rywall on April 7, 2009 at 1:08 PM
I’ve been following the thread and I’m pretty sure that MarkTheGreat is using a device known as sarcasm and that his point is exactly the opposite.
I believe his point is that a car can do more damage than a Cessna and yet people would think it was silly to blow up a car just because it was stolen and heading into a pop. center.
JadeNYU on April 7, 2009 at 1:09 PM
I’ve been following the thread and I’m pretty sure that MarkTheGreat is using a device known as sarcasm and that his point is exactly the opposite.
JadeNYU on April 7, 2009 at 1:09 PM
——-
I know.
Dave Rywall on April 7, 2009 at 1:14 PM
Maybe he hated the “FREE” healthcare or he just got tired of hearing “EH” all the time!
VikingGoneWild on April 7, 2009 at 1:16 PM
By your standards, merely being on a highway that goes through a city should be enough to qualify for destruction.
MarkTheGreat on April 7, 2009 at 1:18 PM
faraway on April 7, 2009 at 1:19 PM
We’re talking about a Cessna here. One used for pilot training.
The high tech devices that you mention could easily cost more than the Cessna does.
MarkTheGreat on April 7, 2009 at 1:19 PM
I thought you might but wasn’t entirely sure.
I’ve never claimed my sarcasm detector was perfect.
Sorry about that.
JadeNYU on April 7, 2009 at 1:20 PM
Dave Rywall on April 7, 2009 at 12:59 PM
Drywall, it must be awfull being you.
MarkTheGreat on April 7, 2009 at 1:20 PM
You have to make allowances for Drywall, he’s never heard of these advanced debating techniques.
MarkTheGreat on April 7, 2009 at 1:23 PM
You have to make allowances for Drywall, he’s never heard of these advanced debating techniques.
MarkTheGreat on April 7, 2009 at 1:23 PM
—–
We’re on the same side, genius.
Dave Rywall on April 7, 2009 at 1:29 PM
What he proved was it doesn’t matter what they say “AMERICANS ARE TO PUSSY TO SHOOT YOU DOWN”
Bicyea on April 7, 2009 at 1:29 PM
The plot I’m suggesting for which this could have been a dry run (an outside possibility, not my pet theory) would be to avoid having to get a vehicle through customs, assuming the bad guys have radioactive materials (or CW or BW, or whatever) in Canada. Your rental truck would do a dandy job, IF it got past the border. There have been a couple of ham-handed attempts to cross the Canadian border with explosives (that we know of), which have failed. The plane DID get past the border. I draw no ultimate conclusions from that, but it raises a yellow flag. Even if this guy is just a depressed looney, he may have exposed a weakness.
Actually, come to think of it, if there WAS a plot to disperse some harmful agent, and wide dispersal was the goal, the rental truck would be very difficult to get a couple thousand feet into the air. So there could be other reasons for going the Cessna route.
Makes you go ‘hmmmm.’
RegularJoe on April 7, 2009 at 1:34 PM
The plot I’m suggesting for which this could have been a dry run (an outside possibility, not my pet theory) would be to avoid having to get a vehicle through customs, assuming the bad guys have radioactive materials (or CW or BW, or whatever) in Canada. Your rental truck would do a dandy job, IF it got past the border. There have been a couple of ham-handed attempts to cross the Canadian border with explosives (that we know of), which have failed. The plane DID get past the border. I draw no ultimate conclusions from that, but it raises a yellow flag. Even if this guy is just a depressed looney, he may have exposed a weakness.
Actually, come to think of it, if there WAS a plot to disperse some harmful agent, and wide dispersal was the goal, the rental truck would be very difficult to get a couple thousand feet into the air. So there could be other reasons for going the Cessna route.
Makes you go ‘hmmmm.’
RegularJoe on April 7, 2009 at 1:34 PM
——
Boat. Unpopulated shore. People waiting on shore. Drop off dirty bomb. Boom. The end.
Dave Rywall on April 7, 2009 at 1:38 PM
gh
Obviously Wikipedia knows more than the defense department and Civil Avaition Patrol Pilot familiration briefing that I posted earlier
Plane does not ever have the legs (especially in a student configuration)
Also, the winds come off the rockies the USA in Spring is an predominately west to east orientation and light planes use lots of fuel
Only during artic Blasts no we do north south
Basically, what the newpaper articlew is saying that I can get in my car in St Louis and drive the highways and be in the middle of Canada is less than 11 hours
Riiight
EricPWJohnson on April 7, 2009 at 1:43 PM
It may say spring on the calendar, but it IS NOT spring in the UP and Northern Wisconsin yet.
If you had read what I posted earlier in the thread you would know what the wind conditions were here yesterday.
At the time the plane passed over the western UP the surface winds were a brisk 20 to 25 mph from the NNW and NW. Ceiling was approx. 2,000 feet with broken clouds and scattered light snow showers. The wind aloft, over and off of Lake Superior, was probably much stronger. He had a very good wind, directly on his tail.
Yoop on April 7, 2009 at 1:57 PM
RegularJoe on April 7, 2009 at 1:34 PM
The vast majority of trucks, cars, etc are not searched.
The vast bulk of the Canadian border is unprotected, you can walk across it. Drive a jeep across it. A snowmobile in winter. Etc.
According to another poster, the weight limit for this type of Cessna is only 800 pounds, including the pilot. Can’t get much of a bomb across that way.
MarkTheGreat on April 7, 2009 at 2:05 PM
TESTING, Testing, testing.
This all happened before under different circumstances; just rehashing to see how things have or have not changed.
maverick muse on April 7, 2009 at 2:05 PM
This was a test, it was only a test. The real thing will probably involve fifty or more of the damn things.
thekingtut on April 7, 2009 at 2:06 PM
Berke needs Ritalin.
SCOOPTHIScarlos on April 7, 2009 at 2:09 PM
A little too much “Andromeda Strain/Satan Bug” hysteria on the tread folks. The given flight path for the plane would not lend itself to a CW/BW configured attack. The agents would become highly dispersed and fall below effective concentration levels needed to cause a high casualty count.
The only way this flight makes any sense as a test run would be to carry a low yield nuke or dirty bomb but the northern and southern borders are so porous that there are easier ways to get better devices into the US than a single engined Cessna aircraft.
chemman on April 7, 2009 at 2:09 PM
Oh that tears it! We should do immediate psychological exams on ALL pilots! There are obviously a hate group whom harbor secret desires to fly Willy Nilly all over controlled airspace.
We can cell them with the gun owners!
csdeven on April 7, 2009 at 2:10 PM
drewas on April 7, 2009 at 2:14 PM
Why nobody bothers to assess these threats is extremely stupid to me. Or maybe they are & we don’t know it.
The right toxin & there’d be no way to contain it until there was buku damage.
Better yet, why not just poison the water supply of major cities? It’s coming. The security of these types of facilities serving major cities I am betting is dubious at best. At least it seems to be in the cities I’ve been to.
I am thankful I will not be 1st in this line of attack.
Back to the subject at hand. The guy must be nuts, but being from Turkey has its tantalizing implications, does it not?
Badger40 on April 7, 2009 at 2:18 PM
Ah. But that’s the beauty of the plan! It’s so stupid it has to work!
Badger40 on April 7, 2009 at 2:20 PM
A family member once got picked up for a DUI, and he said, “The last thing I remember is just knowing I had to escape.”
It sounds a bit similar, except this was a plane, not a car.
AnninCA on April 7, 2009 at 2:20 PM
Yes, that’s exactly what I meant. When I said “headed for a crowd of people” I really meant any car on the road. And when I think “lone plane not obeying orders from military escort planes” I really mean “shoot any plane out of the sky that you see”…you got me, man you are Great…how do you live with your greatness? Maybe you should stop generalizing and look at specific facts and quit twisting words to try and look smart.
b4itsover on April 7, 2009 at 2:23 PM
We are damn lucky that the guy wasn’t named Akhmed and was carrying some type of WMD in that 172.
I am sure those who wish to do us real harm have taken note of the fact that this goober was allowed to fly over six states before he landed.
Yeah, this guy apparently wanted to commit the aerial version of suicide by cop.
What about the next time?
-Dave
Dave R. on April 7, 2009 at 2:28 PM
Man, do you get snippy when the illogic of your position is pointed out.
Your claim was that any airplane that failed to immediately follow the orders of the military was to be blown out of the sky.
I responded by asking if any car that failed to follow the orders of the police should likewise be destroyed.
You responded by saying that the car could if it was headed towards a crowd.
I responded by pointing out that according to you, a plane that was merely heading towards a city was automatically a danger.
So I pointed out that merely being on a highway that eventually reached a city would be the logical equivalent to your position.
I’m sorry that pointing out your shortcomings is so upsetting to you. Maybe if you run home to mommy, she will hug you and make it all better.
MarkTheGreat on April 7, 2009 at 2:29 PM
Test Run.
- The Cat
MirCat on April 7, 2009 at 2:30 PM
Drywall,
I don’t want you on my side.
MarkTheGreat on April 7, 2009 at 2:33 PM
Still need some altitude for max efectiveness. I suppose they could smuggle it in, then load it on a small plane here for the end game. At any rate, I’m sure many eyes are watching our reaction and taking notes.
a capella on April 7, 2009 at 2:34 PM
Drywall,
I don’t want you on my side.
MarkTheGreat on April 7, 2009 at 2:33 PM
——
I know – it sucks to agree with me. You’ll get over it eventually.
Dave Rywall on April 7, 2009 at 2:37 PM
It is an experimental aircraft. N4646W were the tail numbers to my old Rockwell Commander. It now resides in Mexico with new tail number.
N4646W on April 7, 2009 at 2:38 PM
I got the rough flight path off of the Fox News Network. They have shown a map with verbal description several times today. Their depiction matches what was described on broadcast from Wasau, Wi. news.
Also, we know he didn’t stop for fuel in Lake Superior.:-)
He did not stop at the two possible places in the UP which he flew between and which are the only places he could have landed on the flight path he took: Ironwood and Ontonagon.
He must have flown over somewhere right over my exact location, or between 5 miles to the east or 20 miles to the west. Intercept by the F-16s would have been 35 to 40 miles south of my location.
Immediately after crossing over the south shore of Lake Superior, if not before, F-16s were sent for intercept from southern Wisconsin. They picked him up at the Wi-Mi border, so that had to be somewhere between Marinesco, Mi. and Land-O-Lakes, Wi. They had him under observation for the entire flight after intercept.
Their initial plans were to force him to land at the Central Wisconsin Airport but abandoned that plan when he failed to communicate by radio.
So he made to make the trip on what he had onboard at departure from Thunder Bay.
As far as the tail winds go, I know from my backyard windvane, and being outside at the time he went through that he had a decent wind, right on his tail. In fact the winds today are from exactly the same direction, NNW to NW at 22 to 25 mph. Only difference today is no cloud cover and no snow showers. It is CAVU here today. Cool, but clear.
Yoop on April 7, 2009 at 2:43 PM
Sorry, haven’t got back to the post you referred to. I will see if I can find it. However, we have a report of where the plane took off and when. Where it landed and when. Everyone is sure it is a cessna 172. I don’t understand what your point is. Do you think it was magic ???
However at:
You are wrong according to the CBC (see link above) story. They report that the tank was full and keys left in the ignition for convenience of the students.
At:
You say “not 600 miles”. I said 600 km/h — that’s kilometres per hour.
See the CBC link at:
It says 1250 km which is 780 miles.
gh on April 7, 2009 at 2:46 PM
a cepella: you are correct about altitude for maximum yield relating to military effectiveness but a terrorist could get as much bang for the buck with a ground based blast in a dense urban environment. Still easier to smuggle it in via land and file a legit flight plan and fly it too its intended destination than try a stunt like this.
Badger 40: point well taken that it’s so idiotic it might work. In this case it would mean the terrorist is looking for a regional EMP event. Now that would be nasty.
chemman on April 7, 2009 at 2:47 PM
You say “calling the 1200 miles”. It was kilometres (CBC).
I can’t view the web-pages you linked … looking at the source it’s some kind of ppt crap.
gh on April 7, 2009 at 2:52 PM
This was not a practice bomb run. This flight was for the purpose of gathing information. Berke made no attempt to hide or evade. He wanted to test ours and Canadians’ responses to such an incursion, and also was checking out specific performance limitations of the aircraft and equipment. I don’t know why, but I fear we’ll find out soon enough.
drewas on April 7, 2009 at 2:56 PM
The video on Fox definitely showed a 172. Looked like an M model from the 70′s that had never been repainted.
DarkCurrent on April 7, 2009 at 3:00 PM
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