Quote of the day
posted at 9:30 pm on April 4, 2009 by Allahpundit
“For a believer like Mohler—a starched, unflinchingly conservative Christian, steeped in the theology of his particular province of the faith, devoted to producing ministers who will preach the inerrancy of the Bible and the Gospel of Jesus Christ as the only means to eternal life—the central news of the survey was troubling enough: the number of Americans who claim no religious affiliation has nearly doubled since 1990, rising from 8 to 15 percent. Then came the point he could not get out of his mind: while the unaffiliated have historically been concentrated in the Pacific Northwest, the report said, ‘this pattern has now changed, and the Northeast emerged in 2008 as the new stronghold of the religiously unidentified.’ As Mohler saw it, the historic foundation of America’s religious culture was cracking.
‘That really hit me hard,’ he told me last week. ‘The Northwest was never as religious, never as congregationalized, as the Northeast, which was the foundation, the home base, of American religion. To lose New England struck me as momentous.’…
Still, in the new NEWSWEEK Poll, fewer people now think of the United States as a ‘Christian nation’ than did so when George W. Bush was president (62 percent in 2009 versus 69 percent in 2008). Two thirds of the public (68 percent) now say religion is ‘losing influence’ in American society, while just 19 percent say religion’s influence is on the rise. The proportion of Americans who think religion ‘can answer all or most of today’s problems’ is now at a historic low of 48 percent. During the Bush 43 and Clinton years, that figure never dropped below 58 percent.”










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OK, tell me this. Let’s say there’s a politician who happens to be a Christian and is anti-abortion; this politician is also a fiscal conservative, conservative on foreign policy, and is for small government. Is the fact that that politician is a Christian and pro-life a deal-breaker in that case? I’d say then that your anti-Christian and pro-choice attitudes are more important to you than your “conservatism”.
ddrintn on April 4, 2009 at 10:57 PM
what election are you talking about??? when was abortion, and creationism pushed by republicans? why do you think gay marriage is such a winner, when it LOSES EVERY ELECTION??
right4life on April 4, 2009 at 10:58 PM
@ right4life on April 4, 2009 at 10:55 PM
WTF are you talking about. Social conservatism is all about fighting for things which will NEVER go their way. Abortion is never being made illegal. Gays WILL get the right to marry. There is no stopping it unless this country undergoes a revolution. Social conservatism is killing conservatism. McCain was not a conservative, neither was Bush. Neither were fiscally conservative, McCain was anti 1st amendment for christ sake.
thphilli on April 4, 2009 at 10:58 PM
Theists don’t hold every single belief in common, either.
ddrintn on April 4, 2009 at 10:58 PM
God Bless America.
OhioCoastie on April 4, 2009 at 10:59 PM
Bush was socially conservative, and he won…so WTF are you talking about moron?
you moderate wackos can go take a flying leap if you think I’ll ever vote for a non-socially ‘conservative’ politician again.
see if you can win without us.
and get a clue, this country is undergoing a revolution…a fascist/socialist revolution. right before your eyes.
and please mccain was a fiscal conservative…give me a break.
right4life on April 4, 2009 at 11:00 PM
@ ddrintn on April 4, 2009 at 10:57 PM
Absolutely not. If he goes on the campaign trail and rails on about abortion and gays when there are GIGANTICALLY more important issues, then yes, he is disqualified for me. I am not saying that social conservatives should not be able to run for office, I am saying that to win elections, conservatives should stop screaming about social conservative issues, and focus on the issues that people actually care about, the economy, foreign policy, smaller government that is responsible and NOT corrupt. Its so simple.
thphilli on April 4, 2009 at 11:01 PM
Both atheists and Christians are too eager to claim “no religious affiliation” as atheism. If the number of atheists has increased, it’s probably from a very small number to still a very small number. I’m completely neutral to whether this is a good thing or not. What works for me doesn’t have to work for someone else.
RightOFLeft on April 4, 2009 at 11:01 PM
Non atheist countries have had their share of bad runs too.
Oldnuke on April 4, 2009 at 11:01 PM
On both the abortion and gay marriage issues, the country as a whole is probably more in agreement with those “social conservatives” in the Republican party than they are with the Democrats; especially, on the issue of abortion, the country as a whole is more Republican than they are in accord with Obama.
ddrintn on April 4, 2009 at 11:01 PM
oh please they all bown down before their hairygod darwin.
right4life on April 4, 2009 at 11:02 PM
Only by comparison…
angelwing34215 on April 4, 2009 at 11:02 PM
I eagerly await Dr. Mohler’s clarification/amplification of the interview on his blog.
INC on April 4, 2009 at 11:02 PM
@right4life on April 4, 2009 at 11:00 PM
And what did he do for social conservatives? Absolutely nothing. You have fun voting for non socially conservative nominees. After a few liberals in office, I think a majority of you will finally defect and vote for someone who is electable.
thphilli on April 4, 2009 at 11:02 PM
See, this is a straw man argument. What national candidate has EVER gone on the campaign trail and railed about abortion and gays?
ddrintn on April 4, 2009 at 11:03 PM
This couldn’t possibly have anything to do with our media culture demonizing all things Christian could it? Nah…
Theworldisnotenough on April 4, 2009 at 11:03 PM
@ right4life on April 4, 2009 at 11:02 PM
Haha, I am sure a vast majority of them do belief in the fact of evolution. As for Darwin, only christians bring up his name anymore, as they are stuck arguing science that is centuries old.
thphilli on April 4, 2009 at 11:04 PM
only because liberal jack-booted black-robed ‘judges’ will impose it upon the country…gay marriage LOSES EVERY VOTE.
right4life on April 4, 2009 at 11:04 PM
you mean the atheist fairy tale of evolution. oh please scientists bow down to him on a daily basis…give me a break.
right4life on April 4, 2009 at 11:05 PM
Well, maybe not everyone knows that. Some seem not to have gotten the word.
MB4 on April 4, 2009 at 11:05 PM
Now THAT……….
……… is the “Quote of the Day!”
Seven Percent Solution on April 4, 2009 at 11:06 PM
Oh no…is this going to become a debate on Intelligent Design? I hope not…
ddrintn on April 4, 2009 at 11:06 PM
Proof or evidence, please? (Of a certain person’s point of view, that is?)
It looks to me like you haven’t been following the site for very long, or in enough detail, to know AP’s position on this. If you had, methinks you’d be at least a little familiar with the pundit’s prior stands and comment volleys on this topic.
I also believe you oversimplify the issue surrounding the name “Allah”, but that’s me and not the Pundit. I say “oversimplify” because – added to Islam’s claim that Allah is the One True God – is their insistence that Allah, not Jehovah, is his name. An Arab Christian worth the label does NOT believe “Allah” is God’s name, I would hope. And even a so-called “Islamochristian” construction of God (to the extent that’s even fair, which it may not be) may well carry the name ‘Allah’, for all I know, but true synonymy of Allah = God is still stretching it a tad IMHO. Don’t you think?
But that’s my position. I don’t for a second presume to know or speak for anyone else on the topic.
RD on April 4, 2009 at 11:07 PM
Now THAT………..
………. is the “Quote of the Day!”
Seven Percent Solution on April 4, 2009 at 11:07 PM
You realize that Allah posts stuff like this as comment bait, right?
OhioCoastie on April 4, 2009 at 11:08 PM
Sorry for the double post……..
………. still prudent.
Seven Percent Solution on April 4, 2009 at 11:08 PM
obviously, but we should support the blog.
right4life on April 4, 2009 at 11:09 PM
You are assuming Intelligence, and if there were any to begin with, Obama would have never been elected POTUS
Kini on April 4, 2009 at 11:10 PM
It’s a Christian thing to forgive.
In another religion, you might loose a body part.
Kini on April 4, 2009 at 11:11 PM
OT
N.Korea has launced a rocket.
Coastal Paradise on April 4, 2009 at 11:11 PM
Don’t worry. Religion is certain to make a comeback in America, although it may take 20 years before the reality sinks in.
Islam. Coming to a country near you.
Basilsbest on April 4, 2009 at 11:12 PM
Oh, I do. Posts like these, though, typically get a rueful chuckle out of me, and that’s about it.
OhioCoastie on April 4, 2009 at 11:13 PM
I bet they’re trembling in fear, awaiting obama’s reaction….uhhhh don’t do it again, or I’ll be real mad!!
right4life on April 4, 2009 at 11:13 PM
The War on the Right in America continues,ongoing
and neverEnding attacks,by the Liberal left!
As,it is in the Liberals best interests to keep
Republicans infighting,and employing the,
Deception/Perception campaign,and painting the
image of the right,through the eyes of the Liberal
viewpoint and mindset!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Question?
Is the Liberal Party at war with everybody,that doesn’t
Worship at the Alter of Liberalism!!!
canopfor on April 4, 2009 at 11:14 PM
On Topic. The U.S. has launched an appeasing socialist government. The second event is much more dangerous.
Basilsbest on April 4, 2009 at 11:15 PM
This will be are big test! It will decide everything!
Everyone pray to God that the rocket goes off course and hits kimy right in the head.
Winner take all.
MB4 on April 4, 2009 at 11:17 PM
:-)
Let’s hope Big Allah (a.k.a. the KC-130 airborne laser platform) knocks it out of the sky, or some unexplained malfunction occurs during its flight path. (But for that to happen, wouldn’t Obama have to give the order? Sigh…)
RD on April 4, 2009 at 11:17 PM
I really think that whole premise that religion, Christian or otherwise, is in decline in the US or world. Religion is just too rooted in the Human condition not to exist at some level. Religion has been involved in Human development for centuries and will continue to do so.
Why, because we’ve been made in his image and therefore have a place at his side.
Besides, if we’d didn’t have something to look forward to, then what’s the purpose of life in the first place.
Kini on April 4, 2009 at 11:19 PM
Basically, the “conservative” Bush and the massive amounts of hate directed towards him absolutely poisoned all things actually conservative. If it could be nominally connected with Bush or one of his philosophies, it took a hit recently.
jimmy the notable on April 4, 2009 at 11:19 PM
yeah it’ll blow up at about 180 miles…just like an iranian missile did…just the right height for an EMP…
right4life on April 4, 2009 at 11:21 PM
Certainly. Non-atheist nations have demonstrated from very good to mediocre to extremely bad.
However, the countries with state atheist governments have been totalitarian socialist countries with uniformly bad to extremely bad human rights records.
Loxodonta on April 4, 2009 at 11:22 PM
In other words…more evidence that America is following Europe into the ditch. Every ‘enlightened’ person knows that its Government that solves all or most of today’s problems. LOL
pearson on April 4, 2009 at 11:22 PM
Two straw men. (T)hphilli presumes to be the arbiter of what constitutes “the issues that people actually care about”.
hillbillyjim on April 4, 2009 at 11:24 PM
Best to have something to believe in, cause once you leave, you can’t come back.
Kini on April 4, 2009 at 11:31 PM
I suspect if those shooting suspects had some religion to fall back on, in particular Christian, there would probably a lot less killing.
I believe that, really.
Kini on April 4, 2009 at 11:34 PM
These survey questions are dumb. They’re trying to distinguish how important people think religion is to the nation, but the questions ask something entirely different.
I’m a conservative Christian who believes that the US was founded on Christian principles and will live die by how well it adheres to them, but here are my answers:
(1) The US is no longer a ‘Christian nation’. No society that kills 1 million unborn children a year could be.
(2) It is blindingly obvious that religion is losing influence in the US. One has only to turn on a TV to see that hedonism is on the rise while piety is ridiculed.
(3) Religion cannot answer all or even most of today’s problems, because our problems are now deeper than religion. Our problems are now at the point where we have trouble distinguishing the common good from the selfish good and even seeing what ‘good’ means. These are innate principles on which religion builds; it cannot answer these questions since they are supposed to be visible to anyone with a moral compass. They are prior to religion.
Newsweek is in the laughable situation of trying to poll people concerning issues of which Newsweek has zero understanding. Good luck.
Gaunilon on April 4, 2009 at 11:35 PM
Yes of course..
The government and its figure head Obama has become God.
justinok on April 4, 2009 at 11:36 PM
A 7 point drop in one year is a pretty big drop in one year. It reflects something more in my opinion. Some of that is a feeling of helplessness or something I can’t quite put my finger on.
msmveritas on April 4, 2009 at 11:36 PM
FWIW:
I saw someone interviewed about this survey–and I think it’s the same survey that Meacham cites. The interviewee was getting grilled by an MSNBCer about this stat, and she did a nice job of throwing back in the interviewer’s face. How? Well, the same group that performed the 1990 and 2009 surveys also did a comparable survey in 1999 or 2000–at the end of Clinton’s administration. The no-religious-affiliation figure went from 8 to 15% during Clinton’s administration. In other words, it remained at 15% during the Bush years. In fairness, it may have gone from 14% to 15%. But the point is that we’ve hardly had a geometric or or even exponential increase in non-affiliation.
In the end, the interviewee was very upbeat that the steady rate at 15% argued for a bottoming out.
You be the judge, but be aware of those trends before drawing the John Meachem conclusion. I’m still betting on God. He’s surely got better answers than Meachem and Obama.
BuckeyeSam on April 4, 2009 at 11:39 PM
Conservative = Some things are NOT negotiable, period. Every ones list is different, some are short, some are long, but you have that list and you know what it is. Religion or lack there of is irrelevant.
Liberal = EVERYTHING is negotiable. We are all Whores, setting the price is all that remains. Again, religion or lack there of is irrelevant.
Winners WIN, Losers Negotiate
Pole-Cat on April 4, 2009 at 11:40 PM
Last I checked, Prop 8 in California passed.
Being a constitutional amendment…. I doubt the judges can do anything now other than put their heads between their legs.
Chaz706 on April 4, 2009 at 11:45 PM
Opinions?
Barrabus beat Our Jesus on something like American Idol.
The First Commandment.
I am an atheist about the poll. Really, these results don’t wash.
IlikedAUH2O on April 4, 2009 at 11:45 PM
Sorry, I just noticed this. (Sometimes I get lost trying to keep up with threads. Young people are too fast!)
Yes. I think you are right. Buddhism, while not a majority, is by far the most dominant religion of this very multi-cultural country. And, Buddhism is traditionally very conservative.
Loxodonta on April 4, 2009 at 11:47 PM
Sorry to cherrypick, but I thought this was an incredibly idiotic comment. Name a candidate in the November elections who conducted himself or herself in this manner.
McCain and Palin are pro-life. So what? Yet, as an Ohioan, I was inundated with Obama mailers informing me that McCain and Palin were going to steal the right to choose and even put a woman in jail for getting an abortion.
Sorry, it’s the pro-choice lobby that’s strident about the abortion issue. And it’s the gay lobby that’s strident about the gay-marriage issue.
Keep drinking from the liberal-talking-points memos. They’ll have you thinking uncritically in no time. It’s already having an effect.
BuckeyeSam on April 4, 2009 at 11:48 PM
Y’know y’all can complain, you can caterwaul, about A-P’s provocations all you want, he’s laughing all the way to the hit bank (and more power to him). Have you seen these numbers?
Pretty darn impressive. If A-P’s real god is Traffic, as some might suggest… well, who’s he going to listen to, Traffic or you – until and unless there’s a big drop-off?
h/t http://www.thenextright.com/jon-henke/blog-traffic
CK MacLeod on April 4, 2009 at 11:49 PM
I agree. Polling really doesn’t represent the majority of Americans views on religion. As a conservative, I tend to ignore polls…..
…. but then again, I never get polled.
It’s religious discrimination I tell ya!
Kini on April 4, 2009 at 11:54 PM
Except republicans haven’t been screaming on social issues. McCain was shitting his pants trying to find a way to sound “moderate” on abortion. The idea that we do is a fantasy fabricated by libertarian trash who don’t have anything near a majority and want to fool conservatives into thinking they need to bend their way to win.
Darth Executor on April 4, 2009 at 11:57 PM
If allah’s real goal is traffic, he’s an idiot. Flame wars like this only run up his bandwidth. If I’m busy slamming a rhetorical hammer in someone’s skull I’m not clicking on his ads.
Darth Executor on April 4, 2009 at 11:59 PM
I don’t know one western muslim who isn’t a liberal. If they’re not batshit crazy 9/11 conspiracy theorists I call it a bargain.
Darth Executor on April 5, 2009 at 12:00 AM
“Allah” is also how Arabic-speaking Jews refer to G-d, and I’m not offended.
mixedberry on April 5, 2009 at 12:04 AM
Interesting, glad I’m not alone
Thanks
Knucklehead on April 5, 2009 at 12:11 AM
And McCain campaign was ho-hum right up until he brought Palin on board and got the religious conservatives attentions.
Reagan, well, books have been written.
Conservatives committed a mortal sin by letting the media choose our candidate, and for that, our penance is to have 4 years of Obama. That’s what I liked about Palin during the debates, she took to talking directly to the American people. Some said she avoided answering the questions. I say, the questions were irrelevant and her context was relevant.
Kini on April 5, 2009 at 12:11 AM
I used to think gay marriage would be the issue that prompted a massive pushback from Middle America, and proved to be a fatal overreach for the Left. Now it’s popping up amid the smoking wreckage of the constitutional democracy that was annihilated in 2009, and it seems almost like a quaint afterthought. At least gay married couples won’t have to bear children who are immediately slapped into chains, forged from 80% income tax rates, to pay Obama’s budget deficits.
If the Republicans are to pull the country out of its socialist nose dive before the system crashes completely, they will need a coherent message to run on in 2010, and even more so in 2012. I don’t believe that coherent message can be forged without substantial input from social conservatives of different stripes, not just because social conservative and religious voters are needed to build a political coalition, but because only they are able to provide the energy for the moral case against Obama-style fascism.
The New Fascism is an explicitly moralistic enterprise, presented to voters in the supercharged language of right and wrong. Obama does not make his case to the electorate in calm, rational terms – quite the opposite. He tells them no deliberation is possible, no debate can be allowed – we must adopt his policies instantly, without considering any alternatives. He tells them to accept these policies not because they’re efficient or logical – you can’t make that case while you’re screaming for Congress to sign your trillion dollar pork bill without deliberation. He sells his leadership to the voters by telling them it is morally wrong to oppose him.
Obama’s entire campaign was based on moral, emotional arguments: it’s racist to vote against him, it’s evil to look into his past, he promises to punish the greedy when he reaches the White House, it was morally wrong to sacrifice American military lives to overthrow Saddam Hussein, etc. He did not approach the voters with pie charts and spreadsheets to convince them his policies were the most efficient way to repair the damaged financial system. Indeed, he offered no policies at all, and swiftly violated virtually every half-hearted promise he made to his voters.
His tenure in office has continued as one long emotional appeal, even to the point where he has been happy to organize mob violence, and threaten business executives with more of the same. Notice that he didn’t lay out a business plan for AIG, then explain how unconstitutional seizure of AIG employees’ bonuses would enhance that plan. He just pointed at them and called them evil, and his minions nodded grimly and began lining up at the bus stops.
There is simply no way to combat this approach by deploying a legion of accountants and publishing 500 page position papers no voter will ever read. Look at the absurdity of that poor idiot who stalks Sarah Palin threads and posts her resume over and over again… not even the politically engaged voters of this blog are persuaded by it. The voters were not terribly interested in Obama’s resume in 2008, and they will not be calmly flipping through job applications and conducting interviews to hire his replacement in 2012.
To defeat the New Fascism and snap Americans out of the weird fugue state that allowed it to be born, Republicans must make the passionate, moral case against it. It’s not simply inefficient to place politicians in charge of “private” companies, or enslave the private sector to ideology – it’s morally offensive. Examples such as the AIG debacle can be used to prove this point to the electorate. Consider the overall mood of the voters, three months into the Obama presidency: they tell pollsters they wish him well and like him personally, but there’s a growing sense of unease. They know something is wrong, but they can’t put their fingers on it, exactly. The Republicans need to give them the philosophical, emotional tools to understand this feeling of unease, and show them why they shouldn’t just be ambivalent… they should be angry. The “socially liberal, fiscally moderate” centrists we so often obsess over are incapable of making this case with moral energy – they can only try to explain things like the relationship between deficit spending and inflation, while Obama’s allies in the media are assuring voters that the only way America can prove it has begun to evolve past its racist origins is to re-elect The First Black President.
Doctor Zero on April 5, 2009 at 12:29 AM
Alas, but what the DOW, unemployment, inflation and the price of gas and electricity go to will be FAR more determinative.
MB4 on April 5, 2009 at 12:38 AM
Doctor Zero on April 5, 2009 at 12:29 AM
Scary thought…. wait….
Kini on April 5, 2009 at 12:42 AM
Are the news stations purposely not covering this?
msmveritas on April 5, 2009 at 12:53 AM
Hear, hear.
With all due respect I don’t think you understood Dr. Zero’s point or took a moment to consider it. (I hope I’m wrong.) The distorted price of energy IS a manifestation of a moral problem: governmental interference is causing the price of energy to rise when it should be falling instead (due to plentiful oil/gas supplies, abundant nuclear energy, …), as just an example.
As long as the reason for distorted energy prices, and distorted prices on all sorts of other things, remains a mystery to the general public — specifically, as long no organized political movement makes the case that its inherent immorality far outweighs any alleged “morality” claimed by its proponents — the tide against this dangerous, destructive, and dehumanizing faux morality will not be turned.
(Even if you think the evidence would speak for itself. It won’t. But the evidence you cite could provide some of the evidence for the moral case, no doubt.)
RD on April 5, 2009 at 12:57 AM
As I read the replies I must say I am just perplexed. Our founders, from Washington to Jefferson, were very much conservative to today’s government.
It should not be a social thing, but a right vs wrong thing. We all have a moral compass, and I would say that most people in this country lean in a certain way. Obama ran on Bush’s bad record and class warfare (thank you NEA!)
I truly believe that ‘the people’ were hoodwinked by a charismatic politician for the Presidential election. Things will change; things have changed for us for over 200 years.
I hope those who voted their emotions will learn from this decision and make an informed vote next time, but then again, the NEA (yes I mean there are many dumbed down voters out there). I would vote for a true conservative democrat, but to date (as long as I have been alive), there has not been one.
People, we need to change the government. As I said before, it is not a social thing, but a right or wrong thing. Both of the parties have betrayed us. We need a wider system, more parties. The two party system has become too powerful and now they are not listening to us. We need a new voice, choose wisely.
lsutiger on April 5, 2009 at 12:57 AM
And the reason it’s a moral problem is because cheaper energy — both directly and indirectly — helps human beings live better, safer, and more comfortable lives. And depriving humans of readily available energy is not a victimless crime: it allows misery to remain where none need be otherwise.
This is a moral argument that must be made vociferously in order to meet the opposition on the battlefield of ideas. The opposition — and their mouthpieces in the media — propagate endlessly the ‘notion’ that energy is evil, whether directly or by implication. It’s time to make the case that the lack of energy is evil — when that lack could easily be prevented by human action.
(I’m exaggerating a bit for effect — this idea could itself be distorted to hideous proportions by a faux liberalist agenda — but IMHO the thought should at least be articulated out loud.)
RD on April 5, 2009 at 1:05 AM
I’d also suggest that voting for a President based on what the Dow happens to be doing in the month or two before the election is foolish, and the electorate should be told why. A Republican strategy that does not embrace the moral dimension of conservatism is, in essence, a gamble that the leading economic indicators will be poor 45 months from now, and the Republicans will have a chance to straighten their bow ties, step up to the podium, and explain their plans for getting unemployment and taxes down a few percentage points.
Even if Fate does not give the Democrats a few bits of good economic news to run on, and keeps their catastrophically bad foreign policy from blowing up in their faces (or blowing up in everyone’s faces, for that matter), it seems foolish to suppose the out-of-power party can run successfully on minute details, when the other party has the nearly unanimous, enthusiastic support of the media. Besides the usual personal beating Republican candidates take from the press, they must realize that by 2012, the hunt for scapegoats to blame for any of Obama’s failures will be at fever pitch… and it won’t be conducted from the White House war room. It will be conducted from newspaper editorial offices and television news studios, coast to coast. To defeat that, you need a narrative, a philosophy, and an emotionally compelling appeal to the voters. You can only make them look back further than the summer before Election Day, or look ahead beyond 2012, by inspiring them.
Doctor Zero on April 5, 2009 at 1:08 AM
How do you feel about tea parties?
Kini on April 5, 2009 at 1:17 AM
We should be nice to AP. His idol, Hitchens, appears to have been trounced by Craig in a debate tonight. Nothing like responding to logical arguments with irrelevancies and mere rhetoric.
aikidoka on April 5, 2009 at 1:17 AM
I guess having an English accent doesn’t make you intelligent.
Kini on April 5, 2009 at 1:32 AM
Oh I understood alright, hence my use of the word “alas“. It was, in fact, the very first word in my comment.
MB4 on April 5, 2009 at 1:32 AM
If the month or two before an election (2010 or 2012) things look good, actually I’m guessing that they won’t look so good, but if they do, then most swing voters will not give a flying do-dah about what someone tells them will happen in 45 months.
And many writers have imagined for themselves republics and
principalities that have never been seen or known to exist in reality; for there is such a gap between how one lives and how one ought to live that anyone who abandons what is done for what ought to be done learns his ruin rather than his preservation: for a man who wishes to profess goodness
at all times will come to ruin among so many who are not good.
- Niccolo Machiavelli
MB4 on April 5, 2009 at 1:45 AM
MB4 on April 5, 2009 at 2:04 AM
Abortion is not a “social conservative” issue. There is no conservatism that is not founded upon respect for the individual and the sanctity of every single human life. You don’t have to be Christian or religious in order to believe in the value of human life.
joe_doufu on April 5, 2009 at 2:12 AM
Well, I think we’re pretty much screwed. If the economy bounces even a quarter way back by 2010 people will thing everything is “ok” and continue to vote with cranial rectal disorder. That’s the disorder that put the fascist marxist into office and gave the anti Americans majority in the houses.
What we need are people in office that believe in upholding the constitution, not being artful at skirting it at every turn. I don’t care at this point if that means democrap or republican. Really, it doesn’t matter at this point because most of both sides are losers and don’t believe in standing for the constitution OR the bill of rights.
When revolution comes, I just hope the military is on OUR side, that is, the side of constitutionalists…people that believe in individual freedom and personal responsibility. When that day comes, I hope the scum in office become VERY afraid, because they already know what they deserve.
Spiritk9 on April 5, 2009 at 2:13 AM
This is ignorance and does not help to move forward the many things we do agree on as Conservatives. Evolution and natural selection are well established in the fossil record. Without understanding the every step of our hominid forefathers, we know animals evolve in response to their environment. I can’t see how this is a threat to anyone but biblical fundementalists–those who believe the world was created 5000 years ago and dinosaur bones are a satanic ruse.
I am perfectly content to respect your faith, you ought respect my desire to view the universe in an objective and empirical manner. A path which I accept will never be informative of the nature or existence of God.
This conflict is the greatest threat to the future of Conservative ideas. If we can’t unite around fiscal conservatism and small government we have lost. Both support everything we want at least indirectly.
Hochmeister on April 5, 2009 at 2:26 AM
Now come rulers let our Lady of Justice possess you
In her breathtaking, hair-raising bed
She will tingle your spine
As she captures your heart and your head
PercyB on April 5, 2009 at 2:31 AM
The only problem I see with this is that when people stop believing in god they tend to believe in something else… and that is often dangerous. If americans believe in god and our political class are not religious figures then that means that our political class never really gets into our “souls”. They can be popular figures but not ones of moral arbitration.
If we lose our religion however then our political class can become moral leaders. Look at Al Gore and his environmental priesthood…
That is the danger. Nothing else beyond that signifies.
Karmashock on April 5, 2009 at 4:07 AM
ORLY?
The problem with your religion is that every time some new data comes up and spoils the formerly “established” and accepted doctrine, the priests hafta scurry around and come up with new orphic shroud for your sacred cow.
TMK on April 5, 2009 at 5:05 AM
This is the greatest threat
Kini on April 5, 2009 at 5:06 AM
Wonder if Newsweek included “THE CHURCH OF CLIMATE CHANGE” in its poll.
Barrack on April 5, 2009 at 6:05 AM
I am putting my faith in the Messiah….I like the way he lies, cheats, smokes, sells drugs and will say anything as long as it isn’t true – he also goes on late-night TV. What a role model!
Cinday Blackburn on April 5, 2009 at 6:47 AM
An article in Foreign Affairs titled “How development Leads to Democracy” talks about developing society moving more away from organized religion as we know it. A breakdown by state of religious identification can be found at the americanreligionssurvey site.
It is modernization not politics that is the cause.
Bradky on April 5, 2009 at 8:30 AM
There’s no such site. Entering gets either the Pew Research study or CUNY. Not exactly disinterested parties in my opinion.
rcl on April 5, 2009 at 8:41 AM
Have had difficulty putting links in posts. read the article at Foreign Affairs – religion is small part of comprehensive article.
http://www.americanreligionsurvey-aris.org/
Bradky on April 5, 2009 at 8:44 AM
i want to talk about NK. can we have a thread on that? i have some technical questions.
kelley in virginia on April 5, 2009 at 9:06 AM
Anyone workin’ here today? Let’s get some new threads going, please…Ed?
RepubChica on April 5, 2009 at 9:15 AM
its the truth. evolution is a big lie. and you can’t be a conservative evolutionist…its an oxymoron. you’re supposed to believe in CHANGE (and hope?). how can evolution, which is basically amoral, square with conserving anything???
really? well then why don’t you go and evolve a bacteria into a multi-cellular animal? can’t you say? you need more time? just proves your ‘science’ is faith.
and given the behavior of your brown-shirted darwiniacs, who try to silence, sue, and harass all who disagree, its a threat to freedom.
sorry, I don’t your respect your faith (evolution) because its patently false. nothing in the lab, nothing in the fossil record, and a history of racism, an eugenics.
no, I will never unite around the ‘small government’ types of conservatives because they’re not really conservative.
right4life on April 5, 2009 at 9:17 AM
I’d like an example, period, Christian or not. (Provided we are talking about American conservatism, which the rest of the world calls liberalism)
Count to 10 on April 5, 2009 at 9:20 AM
Unintended irony, that’s about the percent that believe Obama (the other messiah) can answer all or most of today’s problems.
Further proof Obama is a miserable failure.
I’m glad he’s failing, just like I’m glad the North Korean rocket test failed.
Or is that insensitive of me?
jeff_from_mpls on April 5, 2009 at 9:22 AM
very good post, and normally that would work, but we live in an amoral country, and right is wrong to too many, and with the influx of illegals, conservatism is done. We will abandon israel, as we are already doing…apparently to get Iran’s help in solving the afghan/pakistan ‘problem’ and join the european superstate…the entity known as America is now the United socialist states of amerikkka…comrade.
right4life on April 5, 2009 at 9:22 AM
america, from the revolution to about 1929..
right4life on April 5, 2009 at 9:24 AM
I agree. The only question is how to divide the spoils of the GOP. I think it’s in the hands of the libertarian-secularists right now, and probably should stay there. They can gather in dark meeting places and click their heels hoping for the reincarnation of Ronald Reagan.
And then they’ll call us irrational.
Good times!
jeff_from_mpls on April 5, 2009 at 9:27 AM
That’s the only one I can come up with, too, and it isn’t a modern example.
Count to 10 on April 5, 2009 at 9:27 AM
As to the topic of the thread, the great Catholic philosopher Henri De Lubac said that if one person in the history of the world acted in true charity, the Gospel is justified.
These opinion polls are simply showing us how weak we are as a nation. As if we didn’t know that. I fully expect true Christianity to continue its descent underground.
What the radical Leftists don’t understand that it’s when the Church is persecuted and driven underground that she shows her true power.
Ponder it, secularist friends. You can’t destroy us. Trust me, it’s been tried.
jeff_from_mpls on April 5, 2009 at 9:32 AM
we are inexorably moving towards the global socialist state. even Reagan only slowed the march…
there are no modern examples. people want the government to ‘care’ for them…when actually it enslaves them..but to people who have lost faith in God, government takes His place..
right4life on April 5, 2009 at 9:33 AM
yep the GOP is a joke. All they did was pay lip service to social issues, while pretending to be fiscal conservatives..but apparently no one who is fiscally conservative lasts long in DC. I read some article, I don’t remember where, that unless you are socially conservative, you inevitably become fiscally liberal…
but I’ve read the ‘back of the Book’ and apparently it is time for the global government, and global currency…so in the short term we’re in a great deal of trouble…the long term, whis isn’t looking that far away…things are good!
right4life on April 5, 2009 at 9:36 AM
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