Cap and trade gets big pushback in Senate

posted at 12:55 pm on April 3, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

Barack Obama suffered a major defeat in his quest to impose a cap-and-trade system on the US energy sector last night, as the Senate formally rejected any attempt to pass such a scheme through budget reconciliation rules.  In fact, two-thirds of the Senate voted against such a move, with 26 Democrats crossing the aisle to protect the filibuster for cap-and-trade legislation (via The Corner):

Please pass Al Gore a Valium — and better make it a double — because his cap-and-trade dreams just took a dive in the U.S. Senate. In a vote late Wednesday, no fewer than 26 Democrats joined all 41 Republicans to insist that any new cap and tax on carbon energy would require at least 60 votes.

Tennessee Republican Lamar Alexander called it “the biggest vote of the year” so far, and he’s right. This means Majority Leader Harry Reid can’t jam cap and tax through as part of this year’s budget resolution with a bare majority of 50 Senators. More broadly, it’s a signal that California and East Coast Democrats won’t be able to sock it to coal and manufacturing-heavy Midwestern states without a fight. Senators voting in favor of the 60-vote rule included liberals from Wisconsin, Michigan and West Virginia. Now look for Team Obama to attempt to impose cap and tax the non-democratic way, via regulation that hits business and local governments with such heavy costs that they beg Congress for a less-harmful version.

Though the press corps has barely noticed, this means that two of President Obama’s most economically destructive priorities have taken major hits in the last two weeks. The cap-and-tax collapse follows Pennsylvania Republican Arlen Specter’s decision to oppose Big Labor’s attempt to eliminate secret ballots in union organizing elections. If Mr. Specter holds firm, and as swing state Democrats also look for cover, Republicans will be able to prevail on a filibuster.

Filibusters are not allowed on budget bills, and the Obama administration has repeatedly floated the notion that cap-and-trade should be handled as a budgetary matter.  In fact, they’d like to press most of their agenda through on this process, but obviously that has little support on Capitol Hill.  They will not be able to ram their agenda down the throats of Republicans, and will now have to find ways to negotiate.

Even with negotiation, though, the bigger problem is with Rust Belt Democrats.  Evan Bayh may have lost on the budget bill today, but his Gang of 15 centrist Democrats will immediately re-form in the face of cap-and-trade imposition.  The system will make energy costs skyrocket, as even Barack Obama freely admitted in a January 2008 interview with the San Francisco Chronicle:

The problem is not technical, uh, and the problem is not mastery of the legislative intricacies of Washington. The problem is, uh, can you get the American people to say, “This is really important,” and force their representatives to do the right thing? That requires mobilizing a citizenry. That requires them understanding what is at stake. Uh, and climate change is a great example.

You know, when I was asked earlier about the issue of coal, uh, you know — Under my plan of a cap and trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket. Even regardless of what I say about whether coal is good or bad. Because I’m capping greenhouse gases, coal power plants, you know, natural gas, you name it — whatever the plants were, whatever the industry was, uh, they would have to retrofit their operations. That will cost money. They will pass that money on to consumers.

They — you — you can already see what the arguments will be during the general election. People will say, “Ah, Obama and Al Gore, these folks, they’re going to destroy the economy, this is going to cost us eight trillion dollars,” or whatever their number is. Um, if you can’t persuade the American people that yes, there is going to be some increase in electricity rates on the front end, but that over the long term, because of combinations of more efficient energy usage, changing lightbulbs and more efficient appliance, but also technology improving how we can produce clean energy, the economy would benefit.

If we can’t make that argument persuasively enough, you — you, uh, can be Lyndon Johnson, you can be the master of Washington. You’re not going to get that done.

The Obama administration tried to master Washington, but the damage Obama himself predicts to the energy and manufacturing sectors is too much for even Democrats to swallow. The costs will impact the entire production line; as energy costs increase, it inflates the costs of producing goods, transporting them to market, and conducting the retail transactions to sell them. With the American auto industry on the ropes already, imposing huge costs on coal and steel would drive a stake through the heart of Detroit.

The defeat of the dishonest strategy envisioned by Obama and Harry Reid is good news, but it’s not the end of the fight, either.

Blowback

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Well, that’s a bit of a What The Heck moment. This was defeated?

Good for those who crossed the line. For one brief moment, the adults WERE in charge. Too bad most of the time they are children.

Vanceone on April 3, 2009 at 12:59 PM

Good.

petunia on April 3, 2009 at 12:59 PM

Thanks goodness. My unborn kids already have enough debt as it is.

BadgerHawk on April 3, 2009 at 1:00 PM

I think even eco-morons are realizing that the national ATM machine is empty. It isn’t that they don’t want it, just that they can’t pay for it, and all but the most protected incumbents are starting to run scared.

Vashta.Nerada on April 3, 2009 at 1:00 PM

But, but… Barack needs the money for all of his wonderful plans!

Realist on April 3, 2009 at 1:00 PM

This is big.

Cap and trade funded the seeds of the health care socialism.

The revenues from cap and trade also were assumed in the budget – thus – the deficit is worse than projected.

aquaviva on April 3, 2009 at 1:01 PM

Thanks goodness. MyALL unborn kids already have enough debt as it is.

BadgerHawk on April 3, 2009 at 1:00 PM

Fixed it for you

Dire Straits on April 3, 2009 at 1:02 PM

The problem is, uh, can you get the American people to say, “This is really important,” and force their representatives to do the right thing? That requires mobilizing a citizenry.

Hear that sound in the background, that’s thousands of hobnailed boots hitting the pavement in unison as the “citizenry” is mobilized.

This WILL happen, one way or another.

Bishop on April 3, 2009 at 1:03 PM

The revenues from cap and trade also were assumed in the budget – thus – the deficit is worse than projected.

aquaviva on April 3, 2009 at 1:01 PM

Better still, no matter how they try to fudge the numbers, they can’t pass the socialized medicine plan they want. Our checks are starting to bounce.

Vashta.Nerada on April 3, 2009 at 1:03 PM

Go ahead chosen one, try to take it to the American People. Just be honest and tell them their electric and heating bills will double or triple in price. I’ll sure that they will go along with it because you’re so darn popular and good looking

/sarc

AOTC

Agent of the Cross on April 3, 2009 at 1:04 PM

Dare I hope Congress has regained a little sanity?
Nah. Come now, we know that it really ain’t over.

BTW-got paid today & the teachers in the office were marveling at how Obama’s new tax cuts are already putting $$ back in our pockets via FICA (I got an extra $50 in my check for this 2 weeks).
On the way out of the office I quipped how it’ll more than be made up through the increased overall price in goods.
But they don’t get it.
They see Obama as their savior for the extra pocket change they’re getting this week.
Putzes.

Badger40 on April 3, 2009 at 1:05 PM

Better still, no matter how they try to fudge the numbers, they can’t pass the socialized medicine plan they want. Our checks are starting to bounce.
Vashta.Nerada on April 3, 2009 at 1:03 PM

There is still plenty of room to raise the income tax rate; we don’t need our money anyway.

Bishop on April 3, 2009 at 1:05 PM

I think even eco-morons are realizing that the national ATM machine is empty. It isn’t that they don’t want it, just that they can’t pay for it, and all but the most protected incumbents are starting to run scared.

Vashta.Nerada on April 3, 2009 at 1:00 PM

That gave me an idea for a protest that wouldn’t involve those dangerous tea bags…

We should issue insufficient funds notices. Along with a demand for an overdraft fee. Maybe we could get some money back. Or make the fees tax deductable.

YOUR ACCOUNT AT THE BANK OF THE TAXPAYER IS CLOSED! Continued use will result in prosecution!

petunia on April 3, 2009 at 1:06 PM

Our checks are starting to bounce.

Vashta.Nerada on April 3, 2009 at 1:03 PM

As a public school teacher I’m just waiting for this to happen.
I’m surprised my IRS tax refund didn’t bounce.

Badger40 on April 3, 2009 at 1:07 PM

Vashta.Nerada on April 3, 2009 at 1:00 PM

Come on…
You always have $$ if you’ve still got check blanks.

Badger40 on April 3, 2009 at 1:07 PM

Beware – it could still come back in the reconciliation process.

aquaviva on April 3, 2009 at 1:08 PM

The revenues from cap and trade also were assumed in the budget – thus – the deficit is worse than projected.

aquaviva on April 3, 2009 at 1:01 PM

Nothing like putting the cart before the horse.

Badger40 on April 3, 2009 at 1:09 PM

Come on…
You always have $$ if you’ve still got check blanks.

Badger40 on April 3, 2009 at 1:07 PM

Obviously you’ve also had to deal with young enlisted troops that never had a checkbook before.

AOTC

Agent of the Cross on April 3, 2009 at 1:10 PM

You mean Hussein al-Chicago’s former colleagues in crime have REJECTED something HE wants?

So suddenly, the oceans begin to rise again, polar bears no longer have that single little iceberg to rest upon and the sky suddenly looks gloomy. Where have all the HOPE and CHANGE gone?

Lessee Harry the Vegas Hood try to peddle an excuse to the Caliph.

SeniorD on April 3, 2009 at 1:10 PM

This WILL happen, one way or another.

Bishop on April 3, 2009 at 1:03 PM

I agree. Just like the seat belt law & other things like it.
This $hit is for your own good & you’re gonna take it whether you like it or not!

Badger40 on April 3, 2009 at 1:10 PM

Um, about that 250,000 limit on taxes, we’ve uh, determined that, um sacrifices will have to be made.

Otis B on April 3, 2009 at 1:10 PM

I’m surprised my IRS tax refund didn’t bounce.

Badger40 on April 3, 2009 at 1:07 PM

Now you know why Kansas was delaying sending out refund checks.

Vashta.Nerada on April 3, 2009 at 1:11 PM

Obviously you’ve also had to deal with young enlisted troops that never had a checkbook before.

AOTC

Agent of the Cross on April 3, 2009 at 1:10 PM

LOL. I’m the ex-wife of one of those former guys.
E-2 with BAQ & was netting <$900/month.
And I was pregnant.
Oh those check cashing joints make a lot of $$.

Badger40 on April 3, 2009 at 1:12 PM

Some good news from the other day:

Tipping Point In The Media

Over the last year or so I have been taking an informal survey of a key news metric – Google news searches for the term “global warming.” A year ago, the ratio of alarmist/skeptical articles was close to 100/1. About six months ago, the ratio was 90/10, Two months ago it was 80/20, and today it hit 50/50 for the first time – including the lead skeptical story “A Cooling Trend Toward Global Warming“. One thing that has changed is the rise of blogs written by informed citizens, complemented by the demise of corporate newspapers which make money from keeping people continually alarmed about one thing or another.

Keep spreading the word!

INC on April 3, 2009 at 1:12 PM

One small step for sanity in the Senate. Cap n trade dead for now, but like all blood sucking vampirish legislation we must be eternally vigilant lest Reid and Pelousi try to resurrect it in the dead of night.

eaglewingz08 on April 3, 2009 at 1:13 PM

The cap and trade part of this mess is what scares me the most. My utility bills are already unaffordable and I actually was grateful that gas prices dropped, not for that alone but it gave us a bot of extra money to heat the house.
There is no way Obama can make a rise in energy prices OK. That extra money in a paycheck does nothing when compared to the higher prices and higher taxes and on top of all that I KNOW somehow our family will get socked next April 15th.
This is crazy.

ORconservative on April 3, 2009 at 1:14 PM

be very afraid of that “reconciliation” process. write your senators now about this. tell them to vote no on any socialized medicine via “reconciliation”.

kelley in virginia on April 3, 2009 at 1:14 PM

Otis B on April 3, 2009 at 1:10 PM

Like:
1. Giving up your 1st born
2. Donating your property for the collective good of all the People
3. Donating your wages for the Proletariat
4. No bourgeoise activites
5. Food is a collective right
I’ve gotta stop. I’m scaring myself.

Badger40 on April 3, 2009 at 1:14 PM

The American citizenry is going to get mobilized, Obama, just not for the purposes you have in mind.

AZCoyote on April 3, 2009 at 1:16 PM

E-2 with BAQ & was netting <$900/month.
And I was pregnant.
Oh those check cashing joints make a lot of $$.

Badger40 on April 3, 2009 at 1:12 PM

Sounds familiar – we had two kids as an E-2. We had 90 bucks to our name every two weeks after paying the bills.

Mac and cheese, again?

I don’t know how we did it.

Otis B on April 3, 2009 at 1:16 PM

also, PS: Fox News says the shooter at Binghampton is an Asian male. at least its not a “bubba” with children named “charlton”, “heston” or “john wayne”.

kelley in virginia on April 3, 2009 at 1:16 PM

Fixed it for you

Dire Straits on April 3, 2009 at 1:02 PM

No you didn’t. You just semi-stole my thought because you coudln’t come up with anything better on your own.

BadgerHawk on April 3, 2009 at 1:16 PM

Geraldo is on Fox News acting like a freakin expert on the mental process of this asian shooter.

kelley in virginia on April 3, 2009 at 1:17 PM

LOL. I’m the ex-wife of one of those former guys.
E-2 with BAQ & was netting <$900/month.
And I was pregnant.
Oh those check cashing joints make a lot of $$.

Badger40 on April 3, 2009 at 1:12 PM

Good times! I always knew a whole lot of fun was in store for me when an E-2 or E-3 with a young family showed up to one of my units. Oh, the stories I could tell…

Agent of the Cross on April 3, 2009 at 1:17 PM

“negotiation”?

You forget, “I won”.

GarandFan on April 3, 2009 at 1:18 PM

Like:
1. Giving up your 1st born
2. Donating your property for the collective good of all the People
3. Donating your wages for the Proletariat
4. No bourgeoise activites
5. Food is a collective right
I’ve gotta stop. I’m scaring myself.

Badger40 on April 3, 2009 at 1:14 PM

These kinds of thoughts have been keeping me up nights, too. I just hope everyone wakes up before it is too late.

Otis B on April 3, 2009 at 1:18 PM

I don’t know how we did it.

Otis B on April 3, 2009 at 1:16 PM

Our only saving grace was the ex at the time was competing in the soldier of the month competitions & was always winning $$.
And a lot of help from my parents.

Badger40 on April 3, 2009 at 1:19 PM

Pay attention to Obama’s words about “mobilizing the citizenry.” He has the bully pulpit, an accommodating and uncurious media, and his emerging civilizian corps of thugs paid for with tax dollars to “mobilize” the unsuspecting.

onlineanalyst on April 3, 2009 at 1:20 PM

Oh, the stories I could tell…

Agent of the Cross on April 3, 2009 at 1:17 PM

*sigh* I lived it, too.
Young married soldiers, never mind the unmarried ones, are such dimwits.
Honestly, the military needs to force young married soldiers into taking economics classes-bcs we sure as he!! don;t get them in HS.

Badger40 on April 3, 2009 at 1:21 PM

onlineanalyst on April 3, 2009 at 1:20 PM

Children will soon be informing upon their parents.
It’s coming.

Badger40 on April 3, 2009 at 1:22 PM

Otis B on April 3, 2009 at 1:18 PM

The citizenry will wake up in 2012 when the Sun vomits its huge ball of plasma, frying all developed countries’ power grids.

Badger40 on April 3, 2009 at 1:23 PM

The defeat of the dishonest strategy envisioned by Obama and Harry Reid is good news, but it’s not the end of the fight, either.

The fight against the administrations dishonest strategy is just beginning. Who will lead us, or do we the people have to lead ourselves?

canditaylor68 on April 3, 2009 at 1:24 PM

The citizenry will wake up in 2012 when the Sun vomits its huge ball of plasma…

Badger40 on April 3, 2009 at 1:23 PM

That sort of activity will be banned by the California legislature.

myrenovations on April 3, 2009 at 1:26 PM

This is crazy.

ORconservative on April 3, 2009 at 1:14 PM

Too bad you are not able to fully utilize the cheap energy freely available in your state of OR-hydroelectric.
But the NW is too busy tearing down dams to save the salmon, regardless of the fact that their fish ladders were a success.

That’s why I’m ready to go middle ages.
Got lotsa wood for a lifetime on the river. Got my wood stove.
Gotta lotta critters to shoot & eat.
Lotsa home canned goods.
Got guns.
Got the capability to make own ammo.
I’m ready for the unfortunate to happen.

Badger40 on April 3, 2009 at 1:27 PM

myrenovations on April 3, 2009 at 1:26 PM

I can see them trying. Make a huge pair of sunglasses for the Earth.

Badger40 on April 3, 2009 at 1:28 PM

Stay alert….

Bambi can impose Cap and Trade by Imperial Decree (Executive Order) once CO2 is declared a pollutant.

As long as Cap and Trade is revenue neutral, there are precedents for Congress to not get involved.

Under the existing EPA laws, the EPA can FINE companies for polluting… and the government can, and does, use those fines as Revenue which is OFF THE BOOKS.

So, once CO2 is declared a pollutant, Barry sets of a Beurocracy to fine companies, which is used to perpetuate the beurocracy… and as long as its revenue neutral, Congress does not even have OVERSITE (Congress only has oversite due to the budget process, if they don’t fund, they don’t have oversite…).

And for those who think I’m whacked… that this is impossible… do a bit of research in how the DEA funds some of its activities through seized drug assets… as well as how the Secret Service funds some of its stuff via seizures due to wire fraud laws…

Romeo13 on April 3, 2009 at 1:28 PM

I had not watched any of the G20 coverage, but I did catch a bit yesterday when Mein Fuhrer stated that America cannot place requests on China and India regarding cleaning up the environment until we act first.

It reminded me of Drudge Report headline… from two years ago.

Very original, comrade Hussein.

madmonkphotog on April 3, 2009 at 1:29 PM

Who will lead us, or do we the people have to lead ourselves?

canditaylor68 on April 3, 2009 at 1:24 PM

I’m beginning to think Jesus bet get here soon.

Badger40 on April 3, 2009 at 1:30 PM

BadgerHawk on April 3, 2009 at 1:16 PM

Sorry wasn’t trying to steal it only enhance it!!

Dire Straits on April 3, 2009 at 1:30 PM

Bambi can impose Cap and Trade by Imperial Decree (Executive Order) once CO2 is declared a pollutant.

Romeo13 on April 3, 2009 at 1:28 PM

Well the EPA has already declared dust a pollutant.
Us ag communities are really scratching our heads how they’re gonna regulate this one.

Badger40 on April 3, 2009 at 1:31 PM

Bambi can impose Cap and Trade by Imperial Decree (Executive Order) once CO2 is declared a pollutant.

Oh my gosh are they going to tax breathing now? Talk about your luxury tax! Or is that a sin tax?

petunia on April 3, 2009 at 1:33 PM

Obama is a master at spending and wasting other people’s money. Look at what he and Ayers did with $160 million in the Chicago Annenberg Challenge.

The last thing this POS should be doing is dictating to any of us what we should be paying for heat and electricity. Except for his short-stint in the private sector right out of undergrad, he’s been mooching off the public he entire life. With royalties from two useless books consumed by Kool-Aid drinkers, he’s a wealthy man who will make much more than Clinton-type money after he leaves office. So the price of energy will never be a concern to him.

And all the while, he’ll be trying to shift resources to a number of useless technologies as he has with ethanol.

Whatever the case, on to blocking him on health care.

BuckeyeSam on April 3, 2009 at 1:35 PM

Now if we could only put a cap on Obamas plans and trade him for Alfred E Newman

oldernwiser on April 3, 2009 at 1:36 PM

Awesome! It’s a happy Flatulent Friday indeed :-)

Ordinary1 on April 3, 2009 at 1:36 PM

Oh my gosh are they going to tax breathing now? Talk about your luxury tax! Or is that a sin tax?

petunia on April 3, 2009 at 1:33 PM

I think it’s a luxury tax if you are rich & a sin tax if you are poor.

Badger40 on April 3, 2009 at 1:36 PM

Awesome! It’s a happy Flatulent Friday indeed :-)

Ordinary1 on April 3, 2009 at 1:36 PM

Hee hee!
I could use some warmth to melt the 15+ inches of frigging snow that have fallen here in the past 2 weeks.

Badger40 on April 3, 2009 at 1:38 PM

Hey, Teleprompter Tyrant, still “keepin’ score”…brotha?

SuperCool on April 3, 2009 at 1:39 PM

You’re right Badger. It is crazier here. The salmon rule. The idots in Portland could care less about a lying gay mayor but want to Kelo a fricking sign. Power? what Power? oh yeah, that evil thing we need to heat our homes and do business. But the salmon!
You know it was glaringly obvious during the December snows. The left wants to tax everything to death but they do not want to encourage business that will pay the tax. There is no snow removal due to the salmon and plant life (which describes the people here but I mean the actual plants) so the city of Portland shut down for three weeks. SHUT DOWN. It was incredible, in this day and age that a little snow was allowed to completely obliterate economic activity and no one saw a problem with it. But they want that tax money…………..

ORconservative on April 3, 2009 at 1:39 PM

Oh my gosh are they going to tax breathing now? Talk about your luxury tax! Or is that a sin tax?

petunia on April 3, 2009 at 1:33 PM

Well… they do tax ya for dieing…

Romeo13 on April 3, 2009 at 1:40 PM

Bama tells bankers he is the “only one between them and the pitchforks”…well, that works two ways and he is not immune from his own tactics.

The sheeple might just not happily fall into line as he hopes, and if Holder hasn’t disarmed them, The Youth Corps might not be able to silence critics enough.

Harry Schell on April 3, 2009 at 1:41 PM

Sorry wasn’t trying to steal it only enhance it!!

Dire Straits on April 3, 2009 at 1:30 PM

Pet peeve. It’s more polite to just quote someone and then add onto the thought. Wasn’t trying to go nuclear on you.

BadgerHawk on April 3, 2009 at 1:44 PM

That sort of activity will be banned by the California legislature State Supreme Court.

myrenovations on April 3, 2009 at 1:26 PM

Did someone tell you legislature’s still wield power in deep blue states?

SuperCool on April 3, 2009 at 1:45 PM

ORconservative on April 3, 2009 at 1:39 PM

A big reason my dad moved from Gresham to ND.
Much easier to relax here & live life.

Badger40 on April 3, 2009 at 1:45 PM

I can see that! There is not much good old fashioned logic here.

ORconservative on April 3, 2009 at 1:47 PM

ORconservative on April 3, 2009 at 1:39 PM

I have now lived in OR for 3 years. I live on the dry side of the state. I truly believe everything east of the Cascades should be its own state as the Portland area dominates everything the state spends it’s tax dollars on and makes laws that have drastic unintended problems for us folks in central and eastern OR.

Agent of the Cross on April 3, 2009 at 1:48 PM

SuperCool on April 3, 2009 at 1:45 PM

I stand corrected.

myrenovations on April 3, 2009 at 1:49 PM

I got suckered into watching the final episode of Battlestar Galactica. Expecting an amazing animation specatacle, I was treated to the new world vision, as the travelers find earth which without the curse of machine has become paradise. They solve their evil humanity problem by dumping the star fleet into the sun so they can join the other vegetables. I think this is what happens because it was too tedious to watch.

This vision has infected the Left. Standards are applied to us, yet we import items from nations allowed to operate without standards, causing the worst world pollution imaginable, while destroying our own ability to manufacture, our source of independence

Instead of imposing new and unequal standards on our industry we should not allow products into the country unless they are manufactured under at least the same standards of production, pollution control, and product safety as ours. That would eliminate everything except a few Mexican tomatos and European goods

Cap and trade is protectionism for the dirtiest, most dispicable rapers and polluters of the planet. How did the left ever get to the point of destroying our workers and empowering their greatest enemy, the fascists of the east?

That this did not pass is a sign we have not lost all sense of survival, unlike the arugula eaters

The suckers who tear down our industry must think the Chinese find their products in the cabbage patch

entagor on April 3, 2009 at 1:49 PM

If any of you think cap and charade is dead, think again.
The quest for a utopian workers paradise will continue.
This temporary setback will only steel the resolve of the One and his minions.
It was still a very good week for our dear leader. He embarrased us oveseas, charmed a fawning media, gave away sovereignty and untold sums of dollars to the IMF, and he passed a budget in congress that will expand an already massively corpulent debt. All with his trademark beaming smile.
GOD help us.

mountainmanbob on April 3, 2009 at 1:50 PM

Not ready to fall on the sword for Gaia quite yet. They should buy more indulgences in compensation.

TheUnrepentantGeek on April 3, 2009 at 1:52 PM

I live on the dry side of the state.
Agent of the Cross on April 3, 2009 at 1:48 PM

I think that the Dakotas have the same problem as OR & WA-they should have been split into E-W halves instead of N-S halves.
E WA basically = E OR. Small towns, ag folks, good folks who are basically normal. They get dictated to by the W mtn folks with no brains.
ND & SD get dictated to by our East river components.
It’s the same deal-city folks telling country folks what their business is.
For us grounded in reality, it’s such a hard pill to swallow.

Badger40 on April 3, 2009 at 1:53 PM

The suckers who tear down our industry must think the Chinese find their products in the cabbage patch

entagor on April 3, 2009 at 1:49 PM

Exaclty. Why don’t the tree huggers understand where the $hit comes from at their favorite North Face/REI store?!

Badger40 on April 3, 2009 at 1:55 PM

Well… they do tax ya for dieing…

Romeo13 on April 3, 2009 at 1:40 PM

An extremely onerous tax I’ve never seen an = to.

Badger40 on April 3, 2009 at 1:56 PM

Obama is a master at spending and wasting other people’s money. Look at what he and Ayers did with $160 million in the Chicago Annenberg Challenge.

The last thing this POS should be doing is dictating to any of us what we should be paying for heat and electricity. Except for his short-stint in the private sector right out of undergrad, he’s been mooching off the public he entire life. With royalties from two useless books consumed by Kool-Aid drinkers, he’s a wealthy man who will make much more than Clinton-type money after he leaves office. So the price of energy will never be a concern to him.

And all the while, he’ll be trying to shift resources to a number of useless technologies as he has with ethanol.

Whatever the case, on to blocking him on health care.

BuckeyeSam on April 3, 2009 at 1:35 PM

Funny thing about energy: most people don’t appreciate it until it’s gone. There’s nothing more commonplace and invisible in their lives. They just assume they will always have light, gas, and air conditioning. If the price goes up a little bit, they grumble… but if supply is suddenly restricted, or the price goes up dramatically, that sense of confidence twists rapidly into a feeling of betrayal. Nothing makes people angrier than the sudden disappearance of something they take for granted – and slapping a buck or two a gallon onto the price of gas, all at once, is restricting the supply to the consumer on a budget.

Some of the Democrat reluctance to embrace cap-and-trade results from memory of the rage felt during the last gas price crisis. If those prices hadn’t come down as quickly as they did, President McCain would be using hardball tactics to make the last few Democrats left in the Senate sign on to the offshore drilling bill. Gas hikes and energy shortages hit Americans right in their sense of pride. Trillion-dollar budgets, financial regulations, and executive bonuses are fairly abstract concepts for most voters, but telling them they can’t afford the gas to visit their family for the Fourth of July picnic, or that they have to buy some floor fans and put up with sweating through the summer because they can’t afford air conditioning, hits them right where they live.

The over-50 demographic is among the most organized and enthusiastic block of voters in the country, and they remember Carter sittting there like an idiot, telling them to put on sweaters and turn down their heaters. The first whiff of that nonsense wafting from Obama will be the end of him. Most Democrat office holders remember Carter and remember that lesson, so cap and trade is in for a rough ride.

Doctor Zero on April 3, 2009 at 2:06 PM

Doctor Zero on April 3, 2009 at 2:06 PM

You should be a guest blogger when AP or Ed go on vacation. Few commenters are able to string together multiple paragraphs that are both informative and highly persuasive.

Professor Blather used to be that kind of poster, but I believe he enlisted in the military and he rarely posts comments anymore.

BadgerHawk on April 3, 2009 at 2:13 PM

The over-50 demographic is among the most organized and enthusiastic block of voters in the country, and they remember Carter sittting there like an idiot, telling them to put on sweaters and turn down their heaters. The first whiff of that nonsense wafting from Obama will be the end of him. Most Democrat office holders remember Carter and remember that lesson, so cap and trade is in for a rough ride.

Doctor Zero on April 3, 2009 at 2:06 PM

100% correct as usual, Doctor Zero. As a teen growing up during the Carter Administration, the US went from a world power to a pathetic toothless paper tiger. I told both of my boys (17 and 14) last year that if the “Dear Leader” was elected it would be the second coming of the Carter days. I was wrong. It’s going to be much, much worse.

BTW, Doc. My offer still stands. I would really like to drink a few beers with you one day and pick your brain.

AOTC

Agent of the Cross on April 3, 2009 at 2:17 PM

Doctor Zero on April 3, 2009 at 2:06 PM

Yeah, people don’t understand that the health of an economy is better measured by it energy use, than by how much money is spent.

The more productive the economy, the more energy us used for that production… and the better the economy, the more excess wealth is availble to do things which also consume energy.

No modern economy has ever expanded when starved for energy…

But like borrowing our way out of debt… they think think they can expand the economy, by depriving it of energy… plain stupid.

Romeo13 on April 3, 2009 at 2:17 PM

Ole King Coal was a merry ole soul!!!

This vote is extremely significant–there’s actuall a veto-proof majority against cap & trade on CO2. A lot of coal-state (and coal-burning) Democrats probably saw cap & trade as a massive transfer of wealth (via high electricity bills) from their states to other states and countries. Sanity has prevailed in the Senate.

Besides, a lot of northern and midwestern states are getting hit by lots of March and April snowstorms, and people there are probably HOPING for global warming.

I don’t think Specter will desert the filibuster on cap&trade–PA is a big coal state, and Specter will need votes from western PA coal country to be re-elected.

This could drive a stake through the Obama version of Hillarycare, because Obama was relying on cap & trade “revenues” to fund nationalized health care, and will people want skyrocketing power costs to get health care insurance?

To get an idea of the scale of cap&trade, most energy experts believe that a price of $30/ton of CO2 is needed to significantly effect energy choices. Assuming a thermal effciency of 35%, this comes out to about 3.3 cents per kilowatt-hour (KWH) generated from coal, and about 1.7 cents per KWH from natural gas. For a typical household using 30 KWH per day, this means an increase of $30 per month in electric bills in coal-burning states. In addition, all businesses will pay higher electric bills, and pass on the extra costs to consumers. Subways and commuter rail lines will also pass on extra costs to consumers.

It would be also easier to enforce cap&trade on stationary sources (such as power plants) than mobile sources (cars and trucks) Would cap and trade penalize railways which use electric power, to favor truck transport, which is much less efficient? Hmmm, speaking of unintended consequences!

Steve Z on April 3, 2009 at 2:18 PM

Here’s my getalife impersonation of the day:

“The Dow is up 1! The adults are in charge.”

hawksruleva on April 3, 2009 at 2:21 PM

Good. Anything even remotely related to Global Warming needs to die a quick yet painful death.

Grafted on April 3, 2009 at 2:23 PM

The over-50 demographic is among the most organized and enthusiastic block of voters in the country, and they remember Carter sittting there like an idiot, telling them to put on sweaters and turn down their heaters. The first whiff of that nonsense wafting from Obama will be the end of him. Most Democrat office holders remember Carter and remember that lesson, so cap and trade is in for a rough ride.

Doctor Zero on April 3, 2009 at 2:06 PM

Well said. But Obama has a different distraction in mind for them. Healthcare “reform”. He’ll appeal to their civic duty by saying cap & trade is “for the children” (never mind that they’ll be poorer children). At the same time, he’ll promise the old people better healthcare, managed by the government. Since they haven’t seen this scam yet, they might buy it.

Unless they talk to their Canadian friends when they visit for their annual healthcare needs…

hawksruleva on April 3, 2009 at 2:29 PM

That’s the best news I’ve heard all day. I’d like to think the growing tide of evidence and facts against AGW will make this the point of no return, but I’m far too aware of how deceitful our MSM and educational institutions are on this issue to put any faith in that, once all the bankers and commodity traders know what a big pot of “free” money there would be in cap-and-trade.

Socratease on April 3, 2009 at 2:39 PM

The Democrat senators that voted against Odouche’s cap and trade know that the effect on taxpayers – low income, middle income, and high income – would be felt quickly and painfully. Any senator that votes for this legislation will be at risk for re-election. Unlike the $3.5 trillion budget, the burden imposed on families would be felt quickly.

The $3.5 trillion is going to percolate and then explode like the monster in “Alien” somewhere down the line.

jdflorida on April 3, 2009 at 2:50 PM

BTW, Doc. My offer still stands. I would really like to drink a few beers with you one day and pick your brain.

AOTC

Agent of the Cross on April 3, 2009 at 2:17 PM

Nothing would make me happier, assuming interstate travel is still allowed. I should probably put a smiley face after that… but I just can’t make myself hit the keys.

Yeah, people don’t understand that the health of an economy is better measured by it energy use, than by how much money is spent.

The more productive the economy, the more energy us used for that production… and the better the economy, the more excess wealth is availble to do things which also consume energy.

No modern economy has ever expanded when starved for energy…

But like borrowing our way out of debt… they think think they can expand the economy, by depriving it of energy… plain stupid.

Romeo13 on April 3, 2009 at 2:17 PM

That’s a very profound observation. I think much of the enthusiasm for socialism and command economies comes from confusion between the ideas of “money” and “wealth.” Money is piles of paper and coin, or numbers on an electronic balance sheet. Obama can just wave his hand and create more of it. There’s little difficulty involved in printing up another trillion dollars worth of bills, or adding a few zeroes onto a computerized government-controlled bank account.

Wealth is what people do with money, and energy is an indispensable part of that. An advanced society with artificially restricted energy supply, or artificially inflated energy costs, is like a primitive society that lost half its horses to a plague, or finds half its laborers and warriors weak from malnutrition. Time is money… how productive is time spent in the dark? The pharaohs of Egypt had far more wealth than I ever will, but they could never have some of the things I can purchase with a tiny portion of my wealth, like Internet access, toothpaste, or aspirin. Energy is the essential multiplier that makes a 2009 dollar worth far more than an 1809 pile of gold, even when adjusted for inflation.

Doctor Zero on April 3, 2009 at 2:55 PM

Young married soldiers, never mind the unmarried ones, are such dimwits.
Honestly, the military needs to force young married soldiers into taking economics classes-bcs we sure as he!! don;t get them in HS.

Badger40

It was a long time ago but I remember life itself was an economics class for this young married EM. Attic apartment in Darmstadt with tiny space heater in the kitchen and a beat up Volkswagen that my wife had to help push-start on cold mornings. Ah, the memories.

SKYFOX on April 3, 2009 at 3:04 PM

Doctor Zero on April 3, 2009 at 2:55 PM

I’m a systems analyst… and have been for many many years. One of the primary problems we have with a system is how do we measure success…

Current Economists use the GDP to measure success, which is, IMO, really dumb. The GDP basicly totals up the amount of money which changes hands in a given timeframe… it is not a measurment of production.

Thus, inflation actualy causes the GDP to increase, as people save less, and spend more, for subsistance. Also, going into debt artificialy inflates the GDP number… and economists and the government then say we’re doing well.

IMO we’ve had an unsustainble economy for a number of years… as we produce less… and buy more from overseas. We’ve exported our wealth, but by going into debt, the amount of money changing hands increased, and it “looked” like we had a healthy economy.

A better measurement would be Production, with the balance of trade, and debt thrown in… and if you measure that way, we’ve been hurting for years.

Problem has come to a head now because we reached our credit limit…

Romeo13 on April 3, 2009 at 3:17 PM

Problem has come to a head now because we reached our credit limit…

Romeo13 on April 3, 2009 at 3:17 PM

And you can’t live on credit forever.

Badger40 on April 3, 2009 at 3:48 PM

I don’t have a pleasant voice and even reading from a teleprompter I would be prone to say the wrong word. On the other hand I don’t lace my speech with um and you knows like a teen age girl. Obama should be on CBS reading from a teleprompter. His voice, looks and ability to read from a teleprompter would make a perfect match to replace the weather girl. President is over his pay grade.

burt on April 3, 2009 at 4:01 PM

The problem is, uh, can you get the American people to say, “This is really important,” and force their representatives to do the right thing? That requires mobilizing a citizenry. That requires them understanding what is at stake. Uh, and climate change is a great example.

Agree with an earlier post. We’re mobilizing the citizenry alright! Climate change is a great example of One World Govt. proponents trying to take away our rights on the pretext of a hoax! We need to understand what’s at stake alright! The heritage of freedom and individual rights fought for by our Founders. Mobilize the citizenry: Tea Parties on 4/15.

Christian Conservative on April 3, 2009 at 4:01 PM

Nice to read that 2/3 of the senators have spines and will not let the President encroach on their turf regarding the nature of bills. It would be nice if this sets a precedent so that PeBO won’t be able to work his agenda through the side and back doors.

Mallard T. Drake on April 3, 2009 at 4:18 PM

Over the last year or so I have been taking an informal survey of a key news metric – Google news searches for the term “global warming.” A year ago, the ratio of alarmist/skeptical articles was close to 100/1. About six months ago, the ratio was 90/10, Two months ago it was 80/20, and today it hit 50/50 for the first time

INC on April 3, 2009 at 1:12 PM

Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.
- Charles Mackay

MB4 on April 3, 2009 at 4:31 PM

I do hope Cap’n Trade is dead but I know it isn’t. The Anointed One is determined to bury America in a Green Coffin.

Dhuka on April 3, 2009 at 7:02 PM

The Hitler Youth Corps might not be able to silence critics enough.

Harry Schell on April 3, 2009 at 1:41 PM

mad scientist on April 3, 2009 at 10:23 PM

And since we pay the White House electric bill, please explain to me Mr. Obama, while families in warmer climates have to suffer thru extreme heat and humidity without a/c in the summer, and how those in colder climates must go without heat…and you turn the thermostat to 80…because you lived in Hawaii!

Sir, I hope you never get lei’d again!

capejasmine on April 3, 2009 at 11:11 PM

Cap & Trade. Nothing more than a “poor tax”. If the cost of a gallon of milk goes to $10, a loaf of bread to $5 and gas to $10 a gallon, I guess I’ll cut back… go fishing offshore less. In the mean time, those less fortunate than I will be in serious trouble.

All just to satisfy the “Save the Planet” morons. Oh, year… and make Al Gore, GE and others billions. Let me see… the Earth is 4.5 billion years old and humans have been around about 2 100ths of 1 percent of that time. There’s about 5 billion years left. Given the probability of an impact with another celestial body, true natural climate change caused by the sun or any of the other potential changes to the Earth, I doubt that we need to worry about saving the planet…. we won’t be around long enough for the Earth to even notice.

CC

CapedConservative on April 4, 2009 at 6:20 AM