UN panel passes the religious-defamation resolution
posted at 2:17 pm on March 27, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
The UN Human Rights Council has passed the resolution calling for an end to critcism of religion around the world. Actually, to be fair, that’s not entirely accurate. They want an end to criticism of one particular religion — and we all know which religion that will be:
The U.N.’s top human-rights body approved a proposal by Muslims nations Thursday urging passage of laws around the world to protect religion from criticism.
The proposal put forward by Pakistan on behalf of Islamic countries — with the backing of Belarus and Venezuela — had drawn strong criticism from free-speech campaigners and liberal democracies.
A simple majority of 23 members of the 47-nation Human Rights Council voted in favor of the resolution. Eleven nations, mostly Western, opposed the resolution, and 13 countries abstained. …
Opponents of the resolution included Canada, all European Union countries, Switzerland, Ukraine and Chile.
“It is individuals who have rights and not religions,” Canadian diplomat Terry Cormier said.
India, which normally votes along with the council’s majority of developing nations, abstained in protest at the fact that Islam was the only religion specifically named as deserving protection.
I wrote about this earlier in the month, so this resolution comes as no shock to Hot Air readers. Nor should its passage surprise anyone who has kept abreast of the UN’s efforts on “human rights”. The HRC and its predecessor have obsessed themselves with anti-Israel and pro-Islam initiatives, and have made a mockery of efforts to oppose racism at its Durban conferences.
Cormier provided one of the few voices of sanity at the HRC. As I noted on March 3rd:
Where does this stop? Will the UN next declare monarchy as a protected class of beliefs, about which criticism should be treated as a hate crime? Fascism? White supremacy? How about American exceptionalism? What about Hinduism, a polytheistic belief system that Islam frequently and bitterly criticizes? …
The notion that ideas and belief systems have “rights” goes against every step towards liberty that mankind has taken. Individuals have rights; ideas and belief systems have values and policies that should remain open for debate, criticism, satire, and ridicule. Without that essential freedom, people will fall under the thrall of whatever belief system or ideology can exert the most force over them — a strategy practically designed by and for the radical Islamist extremists to whom the UN panders in this declaration.
This also gives us another reason to oppose initiatives like Kyoto and Copenhagen. Along with endemic corruption and a chronic lack of accountability, the UN’s values are flat-out antithetical to America’s. We value individual rights and free speech, and the rights of people to speak trump the nonexistent right to be free from offense — as they must, if we value free speech at all. Pakistan and the other Islamic nations want to silence the opposition to Islam. They’re not interested in “human rights” in the sense that Westerners see them (as individually based).
The resolution carries little effect, but it reveals the wide chasm between the West and those who hate freedom and liberty. The latter won at the HRC, but they can only beat us here if we let them.
Blowback
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Is that you, Bill Maher?
Knucklehead on March 27, 2009 at 3:25 PM
Alright, woman. We’re even now about the Presbyterian joke. Time to clean off the monitor.
kingsjester on March 27, 2009 at 3:28 PM
Ok I’ll bite: give us five.
Akzed on March 27, 2009 at 3:28 PM
I have a question for you. Do you agree that the bible has contradictions in it?
Terry Silver on March 27, 2009 at 3:28 PM
Islam= pedophile prophet worshippers
Islam= Islamotards
Islam= Cave dwelling animals
Islam= Pig droppings
Can ya hear me UN?? can ya
Viper1 on March 27, 2009 at 3:28 PM
Oh, I thought it was “Aloha Snackbar”, I use to yell that when living in Hawaii when discovering a new bar.
retiredeagle on March 27, 2009 at 3:29 PM
Alright give me a sec.
Terry Silver on March 27, 2009 at 3:29 PM
Please cite seven examples where it does in fact contradict itself, comparisons to Old vs New Testament are non valid arguments.
Please begin..
Viper1 on March 27, 2009 at 3:31 PM
I make statements at my Reformed synagogue that the Orthodox would consider blasphemous with some frequency. So, I can’t help but think that the people most likely to be the initial victims of this attack on free speech would be the one or two moderate muslims that may exist. (There are of course, many people trapped by background in Islam who don’t know much about the religion. By moderate muslim, I mean someone who knows Islam and believes it and is moderate.)
thuja on March 27, 2009 at 3:32 PM
I see a certain “paradox” here. The more like Christ a Christian is the better person he likely is. The more like Mohammad a Muslim is the worse person he likely is. So I guess we should all want Christians to be good at being Christians and Muslims to be poor at being Muslims. Frankly the best Muslims seem to be those who are not very good at being Muslims.
MB4 on March 27, 2009 at 3:33 PM
Akzed on March 27, 2009 at 3:34 PM
no. the ‘contradictions’ are either distortions, or a failure to understand what the bible is talking about.
right4life on March 27, 2009 at 3:34 PM
Madly surfing atheist web sites… trying to get allapundit on the phone….
Akzed on March 27, 2009 at 3:36 PM
then where is Jesus? if Daniel’s 70th week is over, then where is He??
right4life on March 27, 2009 at 3:36 PM
Ruling in heaven. Which particular verse of Daniel are you relying on?
Akzed on March 27, 2009 at 3:37 PM
TOPIC!!!!
PLEASE!!!!
Ahem. Thank you.
MBuck on March 27, 2009 at 3:39 PM
We’re mocking one another’s religions in defiance of the UN, if you please.
Akzed on March 27, 2009 at 3:41 PM
daniel 9:
24 “Seventy ‘sevens’ [c] are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish [d] transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy. [e]
sin hasn’t ended..the most holy isn’t anointed…so where is Jesus if nero was the beast?
the whole kingdom now theology makes no sense. and its anti-semitic too.
right4life on March 27, 2009 at 3:42 PM
#1. In Genesis 1 The Earth, light, and sky are created then the sea, then plants, then sun, then animals and so forth, but man is created last. But in Genesis 2 the Earth and heavens are created then man, then plants and animals. Why does the order change?
Terry Silver on March 27, 2009 at 3:43 PM
Aleph’s entertaining. More rabid rants, please!
OhioCoastie on March 27, 2009 at 3:43 PM
In the midnight hour, they cried Mo, Mo, Mo!
With a Jidhadi yell, they Mo, Mo, Mo!
Mo, Mo, Mo!
Limerick on March 27, 2009 at 3:46 PM
Just another snark session?
d1carter on March 27, 2009 at 3:46 PM
#2. Wisdom is important or not so much?
PRO 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.
ECC 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.
Terry Silver on March 27, 2009 at 3:50 PM
Anti-semitic? You’re jumping the gun a little, no? If I call you a commie does that make you lose the argument?
Saying that something doesn’t make sense, or is anti-semitic, doesn’t make it so. If you need to call names, fine, just don’e frame it as an argument.
Everything quoted in Daniel has happened, fulfilled in Christ. During the horrifying “days of vengeance” prophesied in Luke 21 (see also Mt. 24 & Mark 13) He said, all things that were written would be fulfilled (Luke
21:22). Vision and prophecy would be sealed and completed in
the destruction of the old world order (Dan. 9:24).
In Daniel 12 God said to “seal the book, for the time is not yet, while in Rev. 22 He said not to seal it, for “the time is at hand.” See also Rev. 1:1, where Revelation is described as containing “…things which must shortly come to pass.”
Akzed on March 27, 2009 at 3:52 PM
One can rationalize any contradiction. The question becomes when the burden of rationalization becomes too much. The Hebrew Bible is so riddled with contradiction that the burden is just too much. For that matter, consider Bereshit 6:3 (Genesis 6:3). It’s just gibberish in the original Hebrew, though the translators always make it say something coherent. Thus, if we are Christian Fundamentalist, we must conclude that God wants to communicate with in terms of gibberish. On the other hand, my approach to Torah is to accept Bereshit 6:3 as gibberish and to assume that God wants us it to figure out our own solutions. He’s not there to provide simplistic answers.
thuja on March 27, 2009 at 3:52 PM
#3. Some of these are really easy, and I’m not crossing over between the old and new testament.:
The sins of the father
ISA 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.
DEU 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
Terry Silver on March 27, 2009 at 3:52 PM
Wow, a “moral equivalency” argument from a lefty, THERE’S A SHOCKER!!
First of all Terry this is the “here and now” this is not the crusades as much as the lefty pacifist koom-baya useful idiots would like to make it so with such “moral equivalency” statements as you made above.
I won’t argue the fact there are plenty of examples throughout history where religions have committed vile acts in the name of their God, all religions have done so at one time or another. However as I stated, we are dealing with the “here and now” and not the time of the crusades, and as another commenter said:
So while Christianity and other religions committed vile atrocities in the past they have “grown up” and do not engage in such violence as Islam is perpetrating today and has done so all the way back to its begginings. In the “here and now” the one religion that has refused to “grow up” or in the case of fascist Islam has refused to give up its lust to dominate the world under its draconian, murderous, and barbaric sharia religious/political ideology is Islam!
So, is there a moral equivalence here? I ask because if I read your comment correctly; because Christianity committed atrocities way back when then Christians have no right or “moral standing” to fight back against the current atrocities being perpetrated by fascist Islam?
If this is what you’re saying then you probably also believe that the US is no better than the murdering 9-11 terrorists that incinerated 3,000 innocent men, women, and children because we water boarded Khalid!
All I can say is I am so thankful my father’s generation had a better moral compass and could recognize good from evil better than you, because if they hadn’t we’d all be speaking German or be slave labor to Imperial Japan!
So please, do go on with your lame “moral equivalency” argument, you have every right afforded to your opinion as a free American, however I recommend you re-calibrate that moral compass of yours and learn to differentiate good from evil or that freedom you use to make yourself look so foolish will be taken away from you, not by the “evil Christians” but by the true evil of fascist Islam!
Wake up Terry!
Liberty or Death on March 27, 2009 at 3:53 PM
Can anybody explain these contradictions so far. I’ll go find more.
Terry Silver on March 27, 2009 at 3:54 PM
That’s your best shot?!
We should seek wisdom to avoid follishness, yet wisdom leads to sorrow because the more insight we gain the less silly optimism we can afford.
You of course, have never taken the advice of the Proverb you quoted.
Akzed on March 27, 2009 at 3:54 PM
LOL…
Typical HotAirHeads, fighting Islam with books instead of bullets.
Limerick on March 27, 2009 at 3:54 PM
There’s no contradiction between those two passages.
aengus on March 27, 2009 at 3:55 PM
Congratulations. You’ve let the Troll hijack the thread. And now matter how you try to explain to him what the scriptures mean, he won’t believe you. He has already hardened his heart.
kingsjester on March 27, 2009 at 3:56 PM
I am not trying to create any moral equivalency. Do I believe that American culture is more moral and just plain better than the current Arab or Islamic culture, yes. I’m talking about the religion itself. I don’t think that Islam the religion is any more batsh*t crazy than Christianity, if you actually read the text.
Terry Silver on March 27, 2009 at 3:56 PM
So this law is crafted to punish Christians if Muslims find christian teachings “offensive”?
seven on March 27, 2009 at 3:57 PM
#4.
Is Jesus equal to or lesser than?
JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.
JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Terry Silver on March 27, 2009 at 3:58 PM
The UN proves again to be that proverbial tree falling in the woods when no environmentalist is around to hear it. Ergo, “Does anyone care?”
cackcon on March 27, 2009 at 3:59 PM
Isaiah is addressing Babylon, Moses in Deut. is addressing Israel.
Next.
Akzed on March 27, 2009 at 3:59 PM
no not at all. it is, it replaces israel, and the jews, with the church…it has led to all sorts of anti-semitism in the church…try reading hal lindsey’s book, the road to holocaust.
obviously not. seriously, where is Jesus then? He’s not here, in the flesh…and daniel won’t be done, nor will revelation, until the Return of the King.
right4life on March 27, 2009 at 3:59 PM
#5.
How many stalls and horsemen?
1KI 4:26 And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.
2CH 9:25 And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem.
Terry Silver on March 27, 2009 at 4:00 PM
He is equal in essence, in nature, being Very God of Very God..but He is not equal in position, having submitted himself to the Father…next?
right4life on March 27, 2009 at 4:00 PM
Islam is an abomination. Its prophet was a blood thirsty pedophile. Adherents of this cult are fools or evil.
TAKE. ME. AWAY.
tommylotto on March 27, 2009 at 4:01 PM
#6. Judas died how?
“And he cast down the pieces of silver into the temple and departed, and went out and hanged himself.” (MAT 27:5)
“And falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all of his bowels gushed out.” (ACT 1:18)
Terry Silver on March 27, 2009 at 4:02 PM
Jesus and the Father are of the same substance as confessed in the Creed, yet God, being three Persons / one God, consists of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I am of the same substance as my father, yet there is a hierarchical relationship.
One more shot then you get ignored.
Akzed on March 27, 2009 at 4:02 PM
Goatf#cking is an Islamic reality, not a dream.
mossberg500 on March 27, 2009 at 4:02 PM
Oh give me a break. How can be lesser than himself?
Terry Silver on March 27, 2009 at 4:03 PM
Didn’t God say, “for I am the Alpha and Omega…”
Liberty or Death on March 27, 2009 at 4:04 PM
Ok smart guy, explain #5 and #6. These aren’t up for your “interpretation”. These are just plain errors. God doesn’t making errors. Only humans writing a book do.
Terry Silver on March 27, 2009 at 4:05 PM
Inconsequential typo. A copyist’s error is not a contradiction.
Akzed on March 27, 2009 at 4:05 PM
Again, didn’t God say “I am the Alpha and Omega…”
Liberty or Death on March 27, 2009 at 4:06 PM
He hanged himself, wasnot cut down, his head popped off and when he hit the ground his guts poured out. Now go away.
Akzed on March 27, 2009 at 4:06 PM
Give me a break dude. Jeez its like trying to tell a kid there is no santa claus. Give it up, it was written by people.
Terry Silver on March 27, 2009 at 4:08 PM
Yes, Isaiah 40 I believe, and Jesus said it of Himself in Rev. 1 to assert His equality with the Father. See also Philippians 2.
Now go away.
Akzed on March 27, 2009 at 4:09 PM
Right and the WII generation were mostly Christian. Therefore Terry Silver’s statement that “Christians just stopped being quite so violent in the 20th century” is false.
Lots of Christians were extremely violent in both world wars which led to the deaths of lots of German and Japanese soldiers (and civillians too). What a glaring oversight on Terry Silver’s part.
aengus on March 27, 2009 at 4:10 PM
Men were inspired by God to speak and write it, and in its transmission thru the centuries colpyists errors of several kinds accumulated, all of which are easily understandable by honest men.
Now shove off.
Akzed on March 27, 2009 at 4:10 PM
are you a human being like your father??? do you submit yourself to your father?
get a clue.
right4life on March 27, 2009 at 4:10 PM
Men were inspired by God to speak and write it, and in its transmission thru the centuries copyist errors of several kinds accumulated, all of which are easily understandable by honest men.
Now shove off.
Akzed on March 27, 2009 at 4:11 PM
Typical. You can’t defend your ridiculous belief system, so you tell people to go away. Well I have a question for you. Why would this divine god create a book thats not clear?
Terry Silver on March 27, 2009 at 4:12 PM
Sorry for the dual post, don’t know what happened.
Akzed on March 27, 2009 at 4:13 PM
GOOUNN = Get Out Of UN Now!!!!!
DL13 on March 27, 2009 at 4:14 PM
yes, and so? Jesus said the same about Himself….
right4life on March 27, 2009 at 4:14 PM
Shoot, do you believe the Earth is 6,000 years old and dinosaurs didn’t exist either. The only reason anybody still believes this crap is because it happened so long ago and got passed down between each generation. If some guy came along today and said he was the son of God, would you believe him? No, of course you wouldn’t, but thats because people have more sense today. Well at least some people do.
Terry Silver on March 27, 2009 at 4:14 PM
You’re talking to someone in favor of criminalizing thought.
It’s pointless.
MadisonConservative on March 27, 2009 at 4:15 PM
I think I’ve defended it well enough, but there’s no convincing a silly boy who has never investigated Christianity beyond surfing atheist web sites.
Now take a powder.
Akzed on March 27, 2009 at 4:16 PM
Well I’m glad to hear you weren’t attempting to make a moral equivelency argument, although it sure seemed like you were, but I guess I’ll have to take your word for it.
As for Islam (the religion) not being anymore bat-shiite crazy than Christianity I completely disagree and I think you should read up more on the core tenents of the Koran and Islam in general and make a fair comparison to the tenents found in the new testament.
Also, try comparing the CURRENT ACTS of the followers of Christianity as compared to the CURRENT ACTS of the followers of Islam and if you are honest in your comparison then the only logical and truthful answer you can come up with is that Islam is the bat-shiite crazy religion, not Christianity!
Liberty or Death on March 27, 2009 at 4:16 PM
yeah you. with your support of gay marriage.
right4life on March 27, 2009 at 4:17 PM
Hmmm… and what gem from the HA archives are you planning to spring on me?!?!
Akzed on March 27, 2009 at 4:17 PM
let me guess, you bow before your hairygod darwin.
right4life on March 27, 2009 at 4:18 PM
Forget even any contradictions, the book itself is just so crazy. Kind of like crazy stories that people used to tell to each other thousands of years ago. I mean there was a giant flood, so a guy makes a boat big enough to take two of every animal, including every insect and microscopic organism on the face of the Earth. I mean really? You would think they would at least take more than just two of every animal. What if one of the lions died on the boat? lol.
Terry Silver on March 27, 2009 at 4:20 PM
No, I just don’t read fairytales and proclaim them the word of God.
Terry Silver on March 27, 2009 at 4:23 PM
Terry, you haven’t thought about these issues deeply enough. Judaism and Christianity have long traditions of rational discussion about issues, and do for the most part forbid forced conversion. Islam has a long tradition of Jihad and abuse of women and gays, but also outlaws the rational conversation that leads to change. And yes, Christianity’s commitment to rational conversation means that the bulk of Christianity will follow the non-Orthodox Jews in celebrating gay marriage.
Terry, I do hold that there is a rational atheism that is an important part of our religious conversation, but you are just being silly.
thuja on March 27, 2009 at 4:23 PM
there were seven of every clean animal…the ark was huge, it could hold an enormous amount…
link
right4life on March 27, 2009 at 4:24 PM
While the Godless and the Godly perform in rink #3 the rest of us wander through the circus.
Limerick on March 27, 2009 at 4:25 PM
well those ‘fairytales’ have been proven true, over and over again…even in the smallest detail…
link
whereas evolution is nothing more than an atheist fairy tale.
right4life on March 27, 2009 at 4:26 PM
I’m wondering how, exactly, the mighty UN is planning to enforce its resolution? Ahhhh, the World Court, perhaps. Now I’m really scared.
littleguy on March 27, 2009 at 4:27 PM
Fine. But doesn’t include Islam because Islam is NOT a freaking religion! The premise that it is, is incorrect!
GFW on March 27, 2009 at 4:27 PM
I wasn’t arguing I was just pointing out the fact that God said he is all things, e.g., I am the Alpha and Omega in regard to the on going comments/discussion.
Akzed, thank you for the answer and information, but the “now go away” comment was not needed as I was merely stating what I thought would bolster your assertions and asking if I was correct in my quote, I wasn’t questioning your knowledge or saying you were wrong, quite the contrary.
Liberty or Death on March 27, 2009 at 4:28 PM
Actually the discrimination towards women and gays is more a cultural phenomenon in those countries than a religious one. Religion is just used as a blanket cover for that discrimination. The bible is just as anti-gay and anti-woman as the Koran. Or societies are just different in the treatment of those two groups.
Terry Silver on March 27, 2009 at 4:28 PM
The pity is that the conversation can be quite good when the positions are less extreme and more informed.
thuja on March 27, 2009 at 4:28 PM
sorry, bad link..
link
hopefully that works..
right4life on March 27, 2009 at 4:30 PM
this is just pathetically stupid. women in islam do not have the same legal position as men do.
right4life on March 27, 2009 at 4:31 PM
Ok, explain to me how Noah is going to find every creature on Earth, when new species are still being found today. Then explain why he would take only two of every creature.
Terry Silver on March 27, 2009 at 4:31 PM
You are wrong to the point of complete silliness. Show me anywhere in the Christian Bible where women are indicated as being worth half as much as a man. Many Christian and Jewish theologians argue that there is no anti-gay view in the Bible–just a few verses taken out of context by homophobes, but the Koran is clearly anti-gay.
Anyway, I give up talking to you. Just continue arguing with the most Fundamentalist Christian cranks you can find.
thuja on March 27, 2009 at 4:34 PM
What did all the animals eat? Were they just kept in small cages for the whole time to prevent them from eating each other. There are so many questions about the logistics, but mainly its retarded because there is no way Noah could have found every animal on Earth.
Terry Silver on March 27, 2009 at 4:34 PM
When a Troll hijacks a thread, the only one who wins is the Troll.
kingsjester on March 27, 2009 at 4:35 PM
And a man will choose…any wickedness, but the wickedness of a woman…Sin began with a woman and thanks to her we all must die Ecclesiasticus, 25:18, 19 & 33
As regards the individual nature, woman is defective and misbegotten, for the active power of the male seed tends to the production of a perfect likeness in the masculine sex; while the production of a woman comes from defect in the active power…. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica,Q92, art. 1, Reply Obj. 1
Terry Silver on March 27, 2009 at 4:36 PM
This thread is like listening to Allah and Ed at a Star Trek convention arguing over the merits of Phasors vs Photon torpedoes.
I’ll wander back to eBay where no one gives a rat’s ash what my religion, sexuality, or U.N. membership is.
Limerick on March 27, 2009 at 4:37 PM
Can you just agree that the arc story is just ridiculous so I can be on my way?
Terry Silver on March 27, 2009 at 4:39 PM
I mean how could a man possibly find every animal?
Terry Silver on March 27, 2009 at 4:39 PM
You are asking for proof he did? Then prove he didn’t.
Bye.
Limerick on March 27, 2009 at 4:41 PM
Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression (I Timothy 2:11-14)
Terry Silver on March 27, 2009 at 4:42 PM
do you even know what the definition of a species is? are lions and tigers different species?? they can mate you know, and produce a liger…
we would have to get into a discussion of ‘kinds’ of animals, and what that means, then we would have to talk about ‘speciation’
right4life on March 27, 2009 at 4:43 PM
Wow, thats a fundamentalist in a nutshell for ya. Ok, ok prove that I wasn’t flying to work this morning. You can’t can you? lol
Terry Silver on March 27, 2009 at 4:43 PM
not a chance.
right4life on March 27, 2009 at 4:44 PM
Unreal.
Another win for Islam.
Great.
Allahu Akbar!
blatantblue on March 27, 2009 at 4:44 PM
yeah so? thats all ya got? you atheists are a dumb lot.
right4life on March 27, 2009 at 4:45 PM
Ok so your still trying to say that he traveled the world collecting every animal, no matter how small, obscure, or rare. Animals that humans didn’t even know existed. Somehow transported them all back onto his ship and none of them died in his care.
Terry Silver on March 27, 2009 at 4:45 PM
Shouldn’t you be off somewhere calling people ugly and decrying white women as inferior to black women?
MadisonConservative on March 27, 2009 at 4:45 PM
Noah didn’t “find” them
jgapinoy on March 27, 2009 at 4:45 PM
Helloooo. If you are not Muslim, that includes Christians, Jews, Hindus, atheists, and all others, then to the Islamist, you are an infidel. Regardless of what you think about scripture, Islamists will not adhere to the UN resolution, but will demand its application to all others. The prescription for infidels is convert or die, with no exception. While we debate the Koran vs. the Bible, etc. they are planning our demise — ALL of us.
littleguy on March 27, 2009 at 4:45 PM
There is no “Ecclesiasticus” and your paraphras is nowhere in the Bible Terry
sweetcake on March 27, 2009 at 4:46 PM
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