Video: Our “legacy” is all that separates us from Euro-Canada health care
posted at 2:47 pm on March 26, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
If you want a peek at the direction Barack Obama will take health care, or at least where he would like to take it, check out this moment from an otherwise dull, dreary “virtual town hall”. Obama extols the virtues of single-payer systems in Europe and Canada while lamenting the “legacy” that keeps America from its nationalized destiny:
Obama’s right about the “historical accident” of employer based care, from which Obama obviously drew the wrong lesson. Government intervention in markets — in this case, the labor market — produces strange and sometimes problematic results. This was the very issue that John McCain wanted to address in his plans to make employer-financed health insurance taxable income while providing a balancing refundable that would have disconnected insurance from employment and created a new market for individual — and portable — plans. Obama and the Democrats misrepresented McCain’s plans, and then turned around this month and suggested they might co-opt the McCain approach now.
As for his description of Canada and “England” as places where one just walks in and gets treatment, perhaps Obama should talk to more Canadians and “English”. Most have to wait months for tests and treatments. The British have a chronic lack of dentists and transplant surgeons, just to name two specialties, because of the lack of compensation for specializations. Both have a healthy “health tourism” outflow of patients to countries that allow for free-market health care. Most people in the systems that Obama hails would laugh outright at the notion that they get health care on demand.
Maybe Obama should do more research on Canada and “England”.
Blowback
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Our legacy is what brings said canadians and europeans here to receive medical care.
Someone tell me again what the exact PROBLEM is with our healthcare system?
Mommypundit on March 26, 2009 at 2:50 PM
No way! You wouldn’t think this was the case based on images we see of the UK.
WashJeff on March 26, 2009 at 2:51 PM
Just one of the many legacies he would like to eliminate.
Vashta.Nerada on March 26, 2009 at 2:51 PM
Obama says his goal is to be able to provide everyone the health care that they can afford.
DUH.
maverick muse on March 26, 2009 at 2:52 PM
That you and I aren’t paying for everyone else’s, best I can tell.
Cindy Munford on March 26, 2009 at 2:53 PM
American healthcare is clearly inadequate. However, it needs to be deregulated more, not the other way around.
radiofreevillage on March 26, 2009 at 2:53 PM
Government involvement in healthcare is the problem. It makes it cost more, makes it less efficient, etc.
lorien1973 on March 26, 2009 at 2:55 PM
Hehehe
toliver on March 26, 2009 at 2:55 PM
Almost every single Canadian I met on my trip to Costa Rica a few weeks ago also have winter homes somewhere down in Florida.
Reason: To get their yearly check-ups and tests done.
I had no idea that many Canadians had their winter homes down in Florida.
Knucklehead on March 26, 2009 at 2:55 PM
Juss, go in, and somebody treats ya.
Sure Barry, sure. YOU FREAKIN IDIOT.
benrand on March 26, 2009 at 2:56 PM
Can we impeach this guy yet?
marklmail on March 26, 2009 at 2:56 PM
The British are also having serious financial problems that rival our own — which demolishes Obama’s premise that we would cure all our own fiscal problems if only we had socialized medicine.
AZCoyote on March 26, 2009 at 2:56 PM
My husband is in healthcare. Tort Reform is what is needed. That’s a huge reason for the high costs. They want to limit AIG pay, but they aren’t suggesting limiting trial lawyer’s pay, are they? Plus, beware and get on the phone to your Congressman/Senator regarding Geitner’s expanded powers to take over “any” company that is a threat to the economy… That could be Blue Cross Blue Shield, pharmaceutical companies, etc. Then we would be screwed and they would love it – enter National Healthcare. We have to stop these people.
suzyk on March 26, 2009 at 2:57 PM
I’m hoping his television rating get so low that he is cancelled. Seriously I am sick of seeing this man’s face 24/7.
Cindy Munford on March 26, 2009 at 2:58 PM
Yes, our current system is broken, but Democrats are going to throw out the baby with the bathwater.
America disproportionately produces most of the world’s medical advances. Not Canada, not Europe, not the UK. America. There are reasons for that, which Democrats are surprisingly “intellectually incurious” about.
sandberg on March 26, 2009 at 2:58 PM
No no no. The Brit financial problem is America’s fault. See how easy that is?
TheUnrepentantGeek on March 26, 2009 at 2:58 PM
Mommypundit
The only thing wrong w/it, I think, is exactly what McCain and Ed addressed. It is tied to employment. We need to separate the two and make healthcare something an individual/family gets and pays for themselves. Unburdening business and making it better for all. We would actually have more $$ if we did so. My hubby’s insurance is great, except we pay way too much and are over insured. We don’t need all the add-ons that it provides. I would like to just pay out of pocket as I go. No need for all the coverage that we have. I would rather have that $$ for something we do need. Catastrophic care and a good health care plan for emergencies. When a family is healthy and takes preventative measures for their health, there is very little need for a $10 copay when seeing a doctor that we visit once or twice a year for check-ups!
JAM on March 26, 2009 at 2:59 PM
I guess our national character is nothing more than a constellation of historical accidents either, huh?
I need more standing between my President’s policies and those of some ISO street-corner goofball than aesthetics.
DrSteve on March 26, 2009 at 2:59 PM
If he’s so smart, he has to realize that he’s not telling the truth, right?
rbj on March 26, 2009 at 2:59 PM
Ed you should have attached the post you did awhile ago. I cant find it, but the premise, if i remember correctly, was an interview with someone from the US extolling the virtues of Canadian and UK healthcare. And then he asked for a show of hands about how many where happy with their healthcare, and no one raised their hands.
MDWNJ on March 26, 2009 at 3:00 PM
5 year colon cancer survival rates in the UK are ~33% for men. The rate in the US is nearly twice that.
The US has the highest cancer survival rates in the world. And that’s with all of us being overweight, stupid, and lazy, versus the svelte, intelligent, and active Europeans. Wonder what the deciding factor is?
strictnein on March 26, 2009 at 3:00 PM
Honestly, Ed, I don’t know how both you and AP do it. How, do you get up every morning, and with all seriousness, approach analyzing what Obama says as something that really means something. Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad y’all do it, but the idea that Obama even cares whether or not the reality of the Canadian and English health care system matches his characterization of it is like trying to find out if what he says about lobbyists in his administration really reflects his views of lobbyists in his administration. Again, don’t get me wrong, I hope you guys never stop, for you two are great at what you do. But I couldn’t do it.
Weight of Glory on March 26, 2009 at 3:00 PM
I wish the bond market would dislocate already so I don’t have to worry about Obamacare.
WTH he wants to model Obamacare after the UK and Canadian systems is beyond me. They are the worst systems on the planet.
Rae on March 26, 2009 at 3:01 PM
What about the Scottish, Welsh, and Ulster health care systems?
I hate it when dumba$$es like Ogabe use “English” instead of “British.” It shows his ignorance.
PimFortuynsGhost on March 26, 2009 at 3:01 PM
What makes Canadian healthcare so dangerous, is that you CAN NOT pay to get services faster. It is illegal. If you need an MRI, for example, you must wait months. Or go to the US.
If you guys are lucky, you will get the socialized healthcare with the option to pay for faster or better service out of your own pocket. The lack of that option is what makes our system suck and drives so many down south to get treatment.
keep the change on March 26, 2009 at 3:01 PM
There is no england anymore.
sonofdy on March 26, 2009 at 3:01 PM
Liberals need the most healthcare, really, because it can’t be good for you to bend so far over that you end up with feces in your ears.
AubieJon on March 26, 2009 at 3:01 PM
In the real world that happens HERE
Emergency rooms are required by law to treat everyone that comes in. The reason for several hospital closings in places like Tucson,AZ where they had to treat “undocumented immigrants” without compensation.
oldernwiser on March 26, 2009 at 3:01 PM
Ah, but we are. All those federal dollars(ours) flowing to bail out CA will, in part, help alleviate the costs associated with treatment of illegal immigrants. Uncompensated services for medical care form a large portion of states’ budgetary problems. What Obama et al are really after is the voting bloc resulting from national health care, plus unionization of all health care employees.
a capella on March 26, 2009 at 3:02 PM
You want health insurance, go buy it. The people in the “gaps” are not making it a priority.
echosyst on March 26, 2009 at 3:02 PM
right4life on March 26, 2009 at 3:02 PM
“You just go in & somebody treats you”
Idiot! what the hell does he think happens here all day every day at every county ER?
I put this in the other healthcare thread…
The most infuriating part about all this is our medicine is already “socialized”, and that is why it is so expensive.
No one in this country is denied health care – rich, poor,legal, illegal, free,incarcerated, sick or just bored. They are all treated by the state. Go to any county hospital’s ER – there they are, every kind of person with every type of complaint imaginable. They get treatment – the best treatment in the world and then they get billed. If they can’t or won’t pay the cost is absorbed into the county budget – that is taxpayer funded health care.
Larger cities provide free or nearly free community health centers, dental centers, school clinics, homeless shelter clinics and mobile health clinics. The clinics do primary care and a myriad of specialties.
The only thing that will happen when all health care is administered by the government is diminished quality/quantity of health care for those that can pay.
And of course some folks in the health care field will go Galt.
yup.
batterup on March 26, 2009 at 3:02 PM
Why hasn’t someone done the answer to Michael Moore’s ‘Sicko,’ exposing the failure of socialized medicine? Sounds like a prime subject for a conservative filmmaker…
snickelfritz on March 26, 2009 at 3:03 PM
Mark my words: Play-or-pay’s public option is going to wind up heavily subsidized. The payroll surcharge won’t be actuarially fair, or the program won’t be fully funded by those premia. Private insurance is going to face serious, eventually insurmountable but totally artificial institutional burdens until it collapses, and Obama will say that the private sector “just couldn’t compete.”
And the town hall participants and the media will cheer.
DrSteve on March 26, 2009 at 3:03 PM
Luckily, Mark Levin addresses this boondoggle known as nationalized health care in his new book. Hopefully, this book catches fire and burns the sinister plans of this administration.
carbon_footprint on March 26, 2009 at 3:03 PM
I worked in an emergency room while I was in graduate school. People always say the nights when there is a full moon are the worst. Nope.
Monday mornings, when so-and-so doesn’t want to go to work and needs a doctor’s excuse. Pile all the kids, grandma, the dog, and the pedophile who sleeps under the bridge and head off to the ER so they can all watch TV in the waiting room and then claim there was an emergency.
AubieJon on March 26, 2009 at 3:04 PM
So they want Wal-Mart style healthcare… but are radically against Wal-Mart style companies… In fact, they FIGHT Wal-Marts who want to open inner city stores WITH medical clinics inside…
(To the GOP… feel free to use “Wal-Mart style healthcare” as an attack on this “single payer” system)
Skywise on March 26, 2009 at 3:05 PM
I know BO is the Mortimer Snerd of our gov’t. Question is, who is making his mouth move?
jintrabar on March 26, 2009 at 3:06 PM
If we had nationalized healthcare in this country, healthcare would ceaase to exist because of the people who would abuse the system.
AubieJon on March 26, 2009 at 3:06 PM
http://freemarketcure.com/uninsuredinamerica.php
For starters.
DrSteve on March 26, 2009 at 3:06 PM
So your argument against going the Canadian way (which I don’t support) is that Americans will be too overwhelmed traveling to Costa Rica and other countries to their summer houses.
radiofreevillage on March 26, 2009 at 3:06 PM
As far as healthcare goes, my wife had a “procedure” while pregnant and we have no maternity ins. so we paid cash for everything. We were charged $140.00 cash, but then they accidentally billed our health ins provider (which we pay for ourselves). Do you know what they charged our ins….$770.00! Our ins company obviously didn’t pay, and they said that we would be responsible for all of it. When we called the company that provided the health service, they admitted their mistake and our cash payment was accepted. So why does the same procedure cost 140 for cash pay patients, but 770 for health ins companies. I think the problem lies in there somewhere.
Weight of Glory on March 26, 2009 at 3:08 PM
“In England, if you’re sick [insert 13 weeks average for simple illnesses and wait for permission from the government] you just go in and get treatment.”
mankai on March 26, 2009 at 3:09 PM
I hear the Ottoman Empire also has a great health care system.
Mike Honcho on March 26, 2009 at 3:09 PM
I just found out that starting April 1st, all foodstamp recipients will get a 13.8% increase in foodstams thanks to the stimulous package.
The expansion of government dependency rolls on. I’ll bet they roll that back when the economy recovers.
saiga on March 26, 2009 at 3:10 PM
Well we pay a pretty penny so I guess it dutch comfort that it is paying for everyone.
Cindy Munford on March 26, 2009 at 3:10 PM
Live by the system you hope to create, Ogabe, and the rest of the demorats with you, then we will see what sort of program is created.
Bishop on March 26, 2009 at 3:10 PM
All legacies other than UAW legacies.
Ed, this part was garbled. But you are so correct to remind. Leave it to McCain to be unable to explain these important points and, instead, harp endlessly on about earmarks, which was certainly warrranted, but not important to voters.
Sigh. I think that’s a lesson that the GOP, such as it is, needs to run someone who has the package but can also sell it.
BuckeyeSam on March 26, 2009 at 3:10 PM
But, but, but…it’s free! It’s free, I tells ya! Well, all except for the %60 tax rate for anyone who actually has a job. Other than that, it’s free!
Wyznowski on March 26, 2009 at 3:10 PM
Someone ought to tell The Precedent that it is for the US health care market that almost all inventions, drugs, and innovations are made. There’s not enough money in the socialist systems to spur companies to research for their markets. If something will not sell in the US helath care syste, then most companies won’t even bother starting it. The socialist systems draft off of our system, that spurs innovation and invention. If we adopt their types of systems, then innovation in health care will slow to a crawl the world over.
progressoverpeace on March 26, 2009 at 3:14 PM
People think that health care in Europe is free.
It is not.
While working in Germany I had to buy German health insurance (like the Germans) from one of many health insurance companies.
For a family of four I was paying close to $3,000 a year.
Plus one pays 10 Euro (about $13) if you visit a doctor during the quarter. (Children excluded.)
Prescription can cost 5 Euro if you don’t take the generic version of the drug.
By the way, just plain old aspirin costs about 50 U.S. cents each(!) and you can only get them in the Pharmacy.
Quality of health care? Hmmmmm. So-so. The doctors are definitely overworked and waiting rooms are full. Average 30 minutes to an hour waiting time.
(If you go to the hospital on Friday afternoon for an emergency you are guaranteed not to be let out until Monday. Skeleton crew working.)
albill on March 26, 2009 at 3:15 PM
In 99% of cases, it’s the other way around.
radiofreevillage on March 26, 2009 at 3:16 PM
Why are all of these lawyer-politicians always tinkering with something they know nothing about, namely health care.
Is it because the justice system is perfect?
Or because the justice system is perfect for lawyers and politicians, to manipulate and to profit from?
Hey Bammy, how much does an hour of “legal work” cost and are you worried that Americans can’t afford it?
Or has your largest contributors, trial lawyers, assured you that legal fees are not a problem?
NoDonkey on March 26, 2009 at 3:17 PM
What’s with the quote marks around “England”?
CP on March 26, 2009 at 3:17 PM
Why is nobody asking this dolt “under what constitutional authority do you seek to create a socialist healthcare system?”.
Heck….why have none of you folks even mentioned it among yourselves?
LimeyGeek on March 26, 2009 at 3:18 PM
When the furthest South you can get in Canada is North of North Dakota, gotta go somewhere further South :o)
cntrlfrk on March 26, 2009 at 3:18 PM
It’s Britain or UK…..not just England.
Again…it shows what an ignorant, unsophisticated dolt he really is.
LimeyGeek on March 26, 2009 at 3:19 PM
Maybe BSOTUS should talk to my coworker’s Canadian father-in-law…he was told he needed emergency open heart surgery, given a beeper, told to go home and pack and wait for the call.
It came 6 weeks later.
ladyingray on March 26, 2009 at 3:19 PM
Yes. They usually charge more because they know that they’re only going to get paid a certain percentage of the “list price” by Medicair and insurance companies. It ends up costing individuals more than insurance companies since individuals are stuck with the “list prices” that are intentionally inflated for insurance-payment purposes.
progressoverpeace on March 26, 2009 at 3:19 PM
I know that Socialism is a wretched system for the unimaginative, but I had no idea that Socialism was so boring.
EMD on March 26, 2009 at 3:20 PM
Did the beeper go off during his funeral?
LimeyGeek on March 26, 2009 at 3:20 PM
Correct. Medicare and Medicaid are wrought with fraud. They lose tens of billions per year, then brag about their “low administrative costs”.
Yes, when you don’t know what the hell it is you’re doing or paying for and are being robbed blind, you can save a couple of bucks on “administrative costs”.
And the “mental health” provisions idiot Democrats want? People will abuse the living hell out of that. Lonely? Talk to a psychiatrist for a few hours a day, for $300 an hour.
Why not? It’s “free”.
NoDonkey on March 26, 2009 at 3:20 PM
I would support federal chartering that would allow for nationwide private not-for-profits in health insurance, able to sell a standard package across state lines and form pools across state lines. But I don’t want private insurance competing with a public entity that has hostile patrons in Congress and unlimited access to the Treasury.
DrSteve on March 26, 2009 at 3:21 PM
I thought the John McCain plan seemed like a decent idea. He refused to sell it and didn’t seem to understand it all that well himself, but it was a decent idea.
myrenovations on March 26, 2009 at 3:21 PM
I’ll take the legacy I know and love over any stinking European country… every time. Soetoro can take his single pay ideas and put it where the sun doesn’t shine, which should prove difficult for such a scrawny waste of protoplasm.
MNDavenotPC on March 26, 2009 at 3:22 PM
Don’t forget the more important freedom perspective either. Yes, nationalized health care is bad because the care it offers is lower quality, it reduces incentives for innovation, etc. But it is also bad if it takes away your right to see whichever doctor or dentist you wish, or at least forces you to pay money to support those you don’t wish to see.
kc8ukw on March 26, 2009 at 3:23 PM
I will personally give the money to hire busses to transport 1/2 of south central LA to emergency rooms and doctors offices in Babs Streisand’s Malibu should universal care arrive. I’ll quit my practice and have the time to do it, even drive one of those busses.
Marcus on March 26, 2009 at 3:23 PM
Obama says we have an employer based system because companies wanted to use health insurance to attract workers. This is 100% of why I disapprove of everything he brings to the table. He wants to take away all incentives for getting/keeping/finding a job. I know many many people who work at crappy jobs for the health insurance. They get some money. They get health insurance. The company gets an employee.
Without this incentive, they would stay home. The company would have to find other ways of attracting employees, usually through higher wages, which would result in higher costs of goods sold, which would result in me not buying as much, which would result in companies reducing the number of employees or increasing the amount of work completed by existing employees. Everybody loses.
For myself, I have paid off or reduced my costs to the point where I could live quite well on much less cash inflow but I need health insurance. Ergo, I created a company and a job for myself so I could qualify for lower cost health insurance through a local business network. And I make money. And I buy products and ship products for this little business, adding to the economic merry go round of keeping things moving. And so I take the cash I make and I buy stuff for me too. Keeping more people working.
But soon, Obama will pay my health insurance, educate my kid’s kids’, and so I won’t need to create work for myself and I won’t need to worry about finding raw materials, or the manufacturer who provides my stuff, or the printers who print my brochures, or the delivery service I use. My incentive will be gone, and my contribution will be gone. And since I SERIOUSLY don’t want to make over $250,000 if it means it will all go to BarryNancyHarry, another incentive is gone. And since I can’t leave it to my kids, I don’t want to amass too much.
So I guess I can be happy just receiving from Uncle Bama…., and screw the rest of youse.
Ohio Granny on March 26, 2009 at 3:23 PM
all this proves is that Obama can read a magazine and spit back its findings. yall dont remember the atlantic article (or was it harpers…) that outlined how the different western nations got their healthcare systems? our “legacy” here is just the fact that we didnt have our entire medial infrastructure taken over by the military during WWII. THATS the UK’s “legacy”…hes basically saying that we have what we have by virtue of not having some national catastrophe screw it up…
until now…
ernesto on March 26, 2009 at 3:24 PM
I thought he was the future FoxNews star. But I would agree with “ignorant, unsophsticated dolt”.
radiofreevillage on March 26, 2009 at 3:24 PM
But it’s abused already, don’t you think? I don’t have enough toes or fingers to count the number of nights I spent in the ER with my severely asthmatic kid, only to sit and watch people come in and demand to see a doctor because they had “menstruel cramps” or some other ridiculous reason to tie up an ER doc, when a simple aspirin would suffice.
Knucklehead on March 26, 2009 at 3:24 PM
Weight of Glory on March 26, 2009 at 3:08 PM
This is one of the problems of our “legacy.” One area that needs fixed is truth in billing, and some assurances that charges will be paid as billed.
Historically, insured patients provided a kind of cushion for uninsured patients who couldn’t pay. Insurance companies started negotiating lower contracts for payment, and margins tightened.
So, now a procedure that costs maybe $500 is billed as $800. The insurance company pays the pre-negotiated $550, and the $250 is written off. If you don’t have insurance, you can probably negotiate with a financial counselor to pay $250 as you can, so they can at least collect something.
I’ve often thought I’d rather just pay the true cost, as it seems fairer. My family probably pays a good chunk of it anyway with the premiums, and with my employer’s contributions I suspect the insurance companies make a decent profit.
Very inefficient. But, I’m still convinced we have the best healthcare on the planet.
cs89 on March 26, 2009 at 3:26 PM
Besides Michael Moore and Al Gore movies where else does this clown get his information from?
Just A Grunt on March 26, 2009 at 3:26 PM
BINGO! I’ve said for years that we are overinsured. This is the analogy I use: You don’t use car insurance to fill up your gas tank, so why do we think we should use insurance for routine medical check-ups? Just last summer, filling up the gas tank was, in fact, more expensive. I never had a $5 co-pay for a fill-up.
InCali on March 26, 2009 at 3:26 PM
“Ah, Chicago… Canada’s Miami.” – Homer Simpson
mankai on March 26, 2009 at 3:27 PM
No, thank God, but I think that was the desired outcome by the state…
ladyingray on March 26, 2009 at 3:27 PM
Now do I have this straight? Obama trashed, and lied about McCains health care plan, then turns around, and is implying that he’ll use that?
How original, Obama! Good to know once again, that you have an original idea.
The UK just ditched to drugs to battle cancer, because they were to expensive. I sooooo admire that kind of health care.
Sorry. We’ve just decided your life isn’t worth a fig.
capejasmine on March 26, 2009 at 3:29 PM
I don’t know if they are open to all aspects of the McCain plan, just the part about taxing the health benefits.
myrenovations on March 26, 2009 at 3:31 PM
Let me make it clear. Socialized medicine is a disaster.
That being said, your argument is not sound. Yes, some people would work for a big company because it provides insurance. It’s also why a lot of people wouldn’t pursue personal plans by taking a risk and found a business. Insurance is too pricey.
I know this is anecdotal evidence, but I’m sure many of you have seen “The Little People” show on TLC (or something) about a family of dwarfs. The guy doesn’t want to work for a company because he has his own farm that he wants to develop. He can’t. The only way for him to get insurance is through some employer-based program.
Granted, he’s a dwarf so he has a billion of pre-existing conditions, so his case it atypical. Still, try to find out how much insurance would cost you if you had to buy it yourself.
The cost of insurance is something that the conservatives need to think about. I’ve said it already elsewhere but let me repeat. By not acknowledging existing problems you pass the entire issue to the Democrats. There’re no alternative proposals. The only counter-argument is, well, it’s already good. For a lot of people it isn’t. It’s not “left wing” to admit the problem. You just gotta offer “right wing” solutions.
radiofreevillage on March 26, 2009 at 3:31 PM
Actually, their financial problems may be WORSE than ours. They’ve already reached the point where they can no longer issue debt to cover their massive social spending and “stimulus” programs. We’re months away from that.
hawksruleva on March 26, 2009 at 3:32 PM
Not to mention the fact that having us all in one pool will be a steroid-meth-crack cocktail for every scold, busybody or nanny-stater in the public health arena. Bill Bradley likes to argue this is one of the benefits of single-payer — you get a solid reason for telling people what to do.
Hey, Obama — Puritanism is also one of our “legacies.”
DrSteve on March 26, 2009 at 3:32 PM
My post was a continuation from a post a few spots higher up. I agree; the system is abused by people who have nothing better to do than gunk up the lives of folks who have jobs and are hard working. Nationalization would make it many times worse, almost validating the behavior.
AubieJon on March 26, 2009 at 3:33 PM
At 2:20 he says that we should not scrap the employer paid system, but should build on it….
I’m sure they could make it stronger…..maybe create some governmental organizations that could make it better (like Fannie Mae?)
Yeah, we can do for healthcare what the government did for the nation’s financial institutions.
Dpet on March 26, 2009 at 3:33 PM
They will use reconciliation to pass it like the budget.
Do you cons fit in this bracket?
getalife on March 26, 2009 at 3:35 PM
If this train wreck actually comes true, just wait………
……….. there will be “health care” for those in the ruling political class, and then there will be “health care” for the rest of us.
Seven Percent Solution on March 26, 2009 at 3:35 PM
What do you think of allowing 3-4 large private not-for-profit insurance organizations to be chartered to compete nationally alongside for-profit firms?
DrSteve on March 26, 2009 at 3:36 PM
If you’re at all familiar with software, you’ll know what happens when Adobe buys up a software company or buys a program from a company.
What was once a sensible and easy to use program becomes inefficient, difficult to use, and it takes much longer to even get into the program.
That’s what happens when government meddles in anything.
AubieJon on March 26, 2009 at 3:38 PM
Healthcare isn’t perfect. It has too much government subsidy and interference. What’s it cost me to get insurance? Well, here are the factors involved:
1)my health risks
2)the insurance co’s expected payouts on my account
3)the insurance co’s expected payout on lawsuits
4)the insurance co’s expected payout on OTHER people’s healthcare (the costs of nonpayers are borne by folks who do pay for healthcare)
5)the increased cost of services due to the injection of extra government money
6)the increased cost of medicines due to the injection of extra government money
So, while my health risk should be the primary factor in the cost of my coverage, it’s actually the only factor the insurance companies can really use in their decision. They’ll incur the other costs regardless. That drives up the premiums on everyone, but PARTICULARLY on people who need more healthcare, because that extra risk is harder to spread elsewhere in the system.
hawksruleva on March 26, 2009 at 3:38 PM
“Not-for-profit” entities are a bunch of fart-sniffers.
not-for-profit = not for me.
I want to do business with people that have the sense to strive for value and commensurate profits.
LimeyGeek on March 26, 2009 at 3:40 PM
You mean the bracket of folks earning over or under $100,000? Yes, I fit in that group.
hawksruleva on March 26, 2009 at 3:40 PM
Because it’s been feeling oddly irrelevant lately.
Esthier on March 26, 2009 at 3:40 PM
I would weep if I didn’t think the EPA would sue me.
LimeyGeek on March 26, 2009 at 3:42 PM
For those that think health insurance companies are making money hand over fist I offer this, granted it is from a site that deals in insurance, but for what it is worth.
Working for a health insurance company I can testify to the fact that we aren’t rolling in dough, as evidenced by the fact that last month we laid off 1500 people and are expecting more layoffs in the coming months.
If we go to nationalized system just about everybody who works for a health insurance company can clean out their desks except for those that work for whoever is awarded the contract to oversee and administer the government plan and there ain’t a whole of enthusiasm on the part of anybody to have to deal with all of the crap the government would impose.
Just A Grunt on March 26, 2009 at 3:44 PM
Why are you asking about our incomes when just an hour ago you spazzed about being asked personal information in another thread?
myrenovations on March 26, 2009 at 3:45 PM
And try not exhaling so much. You’re destroying the planet.
Esthier on March 26, 2009 at 3:45 PM
I’ll buy a cork for my ass also.
LimeyGeek on March 26, 2009 at 3:47 PM
Solving this problem is way out of my league. I after all do believe in qualifications, as I point out repeatedly in threads on global warming and medical research and such.
From where I sit, I don’t like the fact that there’re too few insurance companies. Take this issue, which was presented by another poster although in an upside-down manner.
If you pay cash for a medical service, you will typically be charged way more than the insurance company will pay. Why? Because doctors need insurance companies. If you are a doctor who’s not “in the network”, you’re screwed. Because many people get their insurance from employers, and they only go to doctors allowed by the insurance.
This is not the norm. By its very definition, the insurance market is highly inelastic if there’s not even a notion of a fair (from the market’s perspective) price. You can use elbows to get the price that you want. What the hell is that?
It’s not normal when you can have your teeth cleaned for less so long as a GM employer. Whereas if you own a private garage, the fee doubles. It’s clear that this is crazy. Now how exactly can this be solved – I have no idea. I know the competition must be increased drastically.
Of course, Obama plans to go in the other direction, which unsurprisingly will make the problem worse. But opposing his plan while necessary isn’t a substitute for alternative proposals.
radiofreevillage on March 26, 2009 at 3:48 PM
From Drudge and the NY Post:
Candacare may have killed Natasha
hawksruleva on March 26, 2009 at 3:48 PM
That would be me. And your point? Your dear leader is planning to take away my deduction for my charitable contributions, taking away the mortgage deduction from anyone who’s considered rich and trying to make me the poster child for all that’s evil in the world.
I’ve already had to lay off one worker in January and if the Boy King passes anymore of his crapulous, another one will probably be gone by June. And it’s not because the economy is bad, my business is service oriented and doing quite well, it will be because your leader is taxing me into a corner. You like that, don’t you?
2 more jobs gone, no more donations to the my favorite charity, the Salvation Army. How’s that going to work out for ya getaclue?
Knucklehead on March 26, 2009 at 3:48 PM
A lot of hands went up when he asked who has health care through their employer – wonder if they actually want universal healthcare.
Stevel on March 26, 2009 at 3:51 PM
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