If this is the case, then no ID or creationist advocate should ever be invited to speak at a secular school again, given it is as antithetical to science as abortion is to the Catholic Church.

Actually no. ID and creationist advocates don’t want to facilitate the killing of their opposition’s infants.

Bringing in a speaker who rejects a major tenet of the faith suggests that the inviting institution may not take that tenet very seriously.

If this is the case, then no ID or creationist advocate should ever be invited to speak at a secular school again, given it is as antithetical to science as abortion is to the Catholic Church.

His abortion and human embyonic stem cell policies are anti-catholic to the core.
.
geckomon on March 24, 2009 at 10:25 PM

.
Anti-Christian

He’s not completely to blame. Sometimes I think the church is happy to have high-profile people claim to be Catholic, even if their lifestyle and stated position is anything but.
Still, Donahue is a limp member…er, of the church.

Phil still hasn’t gotten over the fact that the Church stands for things that are difficult to do or that he doesn’t agree with; self restraint, not indulging in gay sex, etc. His view on Church teaching seems to be the same as his view of the Constitution – it should be ever-evolving. He is, of course wrong on both counts but too immature to accept this reality. A mature person would either accept the Church’s teaching or leave the Church. And so he whines.

Phil, grow up.

And as a PS, the image of Donahue most deeply burned in my memory, was the time he did a show on the “sufferings” of transvestites. To show his solidarity, he came out on stage wearing a dress, high heels, and nylons. That pretty much says it all.

As an alumn, I deplore the idea of awarding an honorary degree or letting The One have the stage without some debate. It’s inappropriate to say the least and disingenuous to be more specific. I’m ashamed of my school for not having the courage to really have a debate but to choose to go for the quick publicity stunt.

If he wants to speak, then lets have a debate ala the Chritstianty debates of D’Souza and Hitchens but since they didn’t use telepromters I guess The One won’t take up that offer.

I hope this is sarcasm.

Say hello to our resident astroturfer …. they are on overdrive lately with all of Soetoro’s mistakes so even the non-clever ones have to be used.

This is the same rationale that Columbia U used to host Ahmadinejad.

I’m not Catholic, but an outsider’s perspective on this is: this is why Catholics lose so much respect for their faith.

Obama wants to kill babies who live through an abortion….kill born babies that survive an abortion. Is Notre Dame nutz?

Yes. Yes it is.

A university is no place for philosophical disagreements. I think we can at least agree on that much.

Proud Rino on March 24, 2009 at 5:59 PM

I hope this is sarcasm. I cannot believe that this statement was made in serious discourse. Philosophical disagreements is are the lifeblood of university. It isn’t a college (collection of like minds). It is to seek all truths. How can you do that without philosophical disagreements. You are a typical marxist/socialist/democrat piece of sh… whose main tactic of arguement is to keep other people from countering your views.

This sounds like an argument for Obamas speaking. However, graduation is not a program of university discourse. This is supposed to be the showcase of Catholic educational philosophy. Where were you, proud RINO, when self-described universities all over the country were trying to have conservative or controversial speakers in the lecture hall, only to be be prevented from speaking by your socialist/marxist/democrat friends? Where were you when only socialist speakers were invited and paid for by student fees, collected from all students. Where were you when conservative students were thrown out of university in the name of diversity.

It appears that though Mr. Donahue claims to be a Catholic, he is creating his own “personalized” Catholic doctrine.

Obama should be permitted to speak at Notre Dame but he should not be honored, in any way, by the Catholic institution. Father Jenkins is hardly a role model for the Catholic students, in his care.

Kudos to Father Jonathan Morris, for his wise and reasonable words, and for correcting Mr. Donahue’s false assertion that few men are entering the priesthood. Father Morris set the record straight by sharing that his present class consists of 450 students, and is filled to capacity.

Wasn’t Phil Donahue a prince for not asking the Catholic church to annul his marriage to his first wife, Marge, to whom he was married for about 17 years and with whom he fathered five children?

neuquenguy on March 24, 2009 at 6:11 PM

I think that this is the wrong approach. I think you need to pay more attention to what the left has done in the past for the answer. Instead of avoiding this you should attend and let him and the world know that we don’t want his murderous ways, and everyone that values human life should fly a banner and voice his/her opinion. The first ammendment is your God given right. Use it.

It’s simple: “LIFE, LIBERTY, PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS”

Notice what comes first?

…you are so intolerant that you would actually refuse the opportunity to see a sitting president give an address, regardless of political affiliation or anything else.

Proud Rino on March 24, 2009 at 6:14 PM

That intolerant,“or anything else” that you left dangling by the “sitting president” are the lifeless remains of children, after having their brains sucked out… no one professing to be Catholic should be honoring a man who has the blood of these innocents on his hands. Perhaps, some other time ND can host a debate between Amadingyjob and the Obama, billed as the Dualing Presidents Debate–Topic: Murder as a Management Tool.

“Let’s Roll”

Like someone said above: Let Palin do it. She’s as pro-life as they come.

Interesting that Donohue has turned into a Left-wing fluffer. He’s good at thought.

EMD on March 24, 2009 at 6:21 PM

Turned into?

Well, first can I say: let’s lighten up on Allah? He doesn’t deserve all the snide remarks. Let’s grow up here. Or, in true Allah style, “LEAVE ALLAHPUNDIT ALONE! YOU’RE LUCKY HE EVEN POSTS FOR YOU!”

Second, Martha: you magnificent bastard Fox!

Third, Donahue’s age and his freely admitting his lack of communion (not Communion, though he lacks that as well) ought to remove him from the position of offering advice on how to attract more young Catholics. It’s watered down Catholic parents like him who are leading those kids astray. As a 23-year-old campus ministry volunteer, I’ve seen and heard what young Catholics want and it’s not the wishy-washy, liberal, non-demanding babble Donahue is peddling. As Obama’s popularity proves, young people are looking desperately for a leader, for someone to tell them the truth, and at least from my experience and the young people I’ve met who take a strong interest in the Church/faith, they want someone or something sturdy, true, and tangible that expects something of them. Baby-boomers seem to be (overgeneralizing here) largely incapable of understanding that, as they’ve spent their entire lives fighting against anybody telling them what is right or wrong.

Finally, to the argument here. I think the main point of protest is about the honorary degree (as Allah quoted), and I think most of us agree that Catholic doctrine, especially the passage Allah and the petition quoted, would demand that Obama not be granted such an honor.

The President of the US is certainly someone whose office should be respected, and I admit that after I got over my initial anger I thought, “Well what the heck? He’s going to be just one of many Presidents to address ND.” But now that I’ve thought more about it, that’s not quite true.

Obama is a particular case especially because of all the attention his pro-choice beliefs have gotten, their extreme nature, his refusal to soften them to any degree, his recent actions regarding conscience-clauses and stem-cell research, his general disrespect for the pro-life position, and more. Let us also not forget that the degree is meant to be a law degree, which, even if we focus solely on the legal realm, should disqualify him for his unyielding support for the intellectual and legal travesty that was Roe v. Wade. ND would be giving him a law degree for supporting one of the most pathetic pieces of law in Supreme Court history, one which also happened to open the door to infanticide-on-demand.

If the “Catholic morals” argument and the “good legal mind” argument both fail to explain his presence, then pretty much all that’s left is the “He’s the President” argument. That might be fine by itself, but unfortunately that can’t be divorced from the other two aspects. There’s no separating the “Obama the President” from “Obama the abortion-enabler,” at least in terms of granting him the degree and platform.

As Fr. Jonathan mentioned, Catholics aren’t trying to silence Obama (for one, it’s not like he just automatically has the right to speak at ND). They simply don’t want to imply any support for his views, which I think is necessarily implied by inviting someone for commencement speaker. These speakers are supposed to be people who are viewed as role models, people to imitate, or moral or intellectual paragons. Not that Obama cannot be those in some regard, but from the Catholic viewpoint, his credibility is severely dented in each of those areas.

To summarize: It’s not silencing people who disagree with the Church; it’s refusing to grant them honors when said disagreements are grievous enough to warrant clear and public denouncement.

Question: Will the Pope receive Obama when he visits Italy? What if the White House specifies that it’s purely a courtesy call, and not meant to talk policy (abortion or otherwise)? Will he receive him then?

Allahpundit on March 24, 2009 at 5:31 PM

The difference is that the Pope is also a head of state and would most likely receive Obama as such. And he probably would not confer any honor upon The One.

As to your complaints that pro-choice people are mistreated…why not reverse the situation…why would a pro-abortion person want to associate/speak before/receive an honor from pro-life people? Why would someone who disagrees with one of the main tenets of a group want to receive an honor from them? Or are pro-choice people so easily swayed by the thought of an award or invitation they are ready to ignore who is giving it?

ND put the President in an untenable position foolishly. If he really does disagree with their pro-life beliefs, he should have been uncomfortable with the situation, even before the uproar. Unfortunately I doubt that he is.

And being elected to the Presidency is not a guarantee of respect. It’s something that has to be earned, and so far Obama hasn’t done that.

In fact, the Pope himself received Nancy Pelosi not long ago at the Vatican, as I recall. No one presumed an endorsement of her views in that circumstance. Why the presumption here vis-a-vis The One? Exit question: The president of the United States isn’t worth respectfully listening to? Seriously?

Re: exit question — Seriously? Is that going to be the crux of your argument? Cuz its not the same thing. However, because you want to make a point you’ll continue with this fallacy…

I’m sure Pelosi would have described it as an exchange of ideas, which in theory is what should happen at universities. My point is, if pro-choicers are so monstrous that they’re unfit to be heard, why is the Pope even gracing them with his presence?

Allahpundit on March 24, 2009 at 5:27 PM

And the fallacy is now so ingrained, that even more ridiculous questions ensue . . .

Question: Will the Pope receive Obama when he visits Italy? What if the White House specifies that it’s purely a courtesy call, and not meant to talk policy (abortion or otherwise)? Will he receive him then?

Allahpundit on March 24, 2009 at 5:31 PM

I await Ed’s wisdom (and knowledge of all things Catholic relative to AP) yet no intervention. [Ed, don't you care for AP?]

Obama’s not anti-Catholic, he simply disagrees with Catholics on a very important subject.

Allahpundit on March 24, 2009 at 5:40 PM

The value of life is the essence of being catholic. While Obama will not outright say that he is anti-catholic, his actions are loud (albeit i want to be perfectly clear that I believe he is not acting intentionally or calculated). His abortion and human embyonic stem cell policies are anti-catholic to the core.

This is why your whole argument is a fallacy, you do not know Catholicism yet insist on telling Catholics what should be their proper Catholic response.

Gregor on March 24, 2009 at 10:07 PM

The confusion is understandable. Notre Dame behaves like a Jesuit university.

Pelosi was a public figure who had a private audience with the Pope, at which time no photos were taken to honor the event, and after which time it was made clear where he stood with her public positions.

Obama is getting an honorary degree. It is unlikely anyone at the commencement exercises will use this opportunity to chastise him for his position on killing the unborn.