Video: Phil Donahue whines about criticism of Obama’s invite from Notre Dame

posted at 5:05 pm on March 24, 2009 by Allahpundit

A tour de force of self-parody, culminating in a plea for the Church to restore its vitality and attract youth by dropping one of its core beliefs. Here’s the petition calling on Notre Dame’s president to disinvite The One from commencement; it had 74,000 signatures when I surfed over there an hour ago and now it’s at 81,000 and counting. The key paragraphs:

This honor is clearly a direct violation of the U.S. bishops’ 2004 mandate in “Catholics in Political Life”: “The Catholic community and Catholic institutions should not honor those who act in defiance of our fundamental moral principles. They should not be given awards, honors or platforms which would suggest support for their actions.”

We prayerfully implore you to halt this travesty immediately. We do so with the hope that Catholics nationwide will likewise call on you to uphold the sacred mission of your Catholic university. May God grant you the courage and wisdom to do what is right.

As you’ll see, Father Jonathan Morris sensibly distinguishes between letting Obama speak and awarding him an honorary degree. A Catholic university is, after all, still a university; to refuse to even hear the man out suggests that he holds views so extreme and odious that he’s unfit for polite society, which may be how Catholics should react to pro-choicers but certainly doesn’t describe how they do. In fact, the Pope himself received Nancy Pelosi not long ago at the Vatican, as I recall. No one presumed an endorsement of her views in that circumstance. Why the presumption here vis-a-vis The One? Exit question: The president of the United States isn’t worth respectfully listening to? Seriously?


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I say let him speak under the condition he explain his positions on embryonic stem cell research, and abortion—especially live birth abortion.

mossberg500 on March 24, 2009 at 5:53 PM

LET SARAH PALIN DO IT.

Proud Rino on March 24, 2009 at 5:55 PM

LET SARAH PALIN DO IT.
Proud Rino on March 24, 2009 at 5:55 PM

In our dreams. Sigh.

Y-not on March 24, 2009 at 5:57 PM

is anyone at Notre Dame under the impression that the school condones abortion now just because it’s invited Obama to speak? Answer: Of course not. In which case, the calls to disinvite are really aimed at making a statement about how pro-choicers are unfit for Catholic company altogether, not even to be listened to and disagreed with.

Allahpundit on March 24, 2009 at 5:44 PM

I think we’ll just disagree on that. Bringing in a speaker who rejects a major tenet of the faith suggests that the inviting institution may not take that tenet very seriously, and I’m sure there are plenty of people at Notre Dame and elsewhere who feel that’s what’s going on at ND. If Catholics truly believe abortion is a moral, human rights issue that has resulted in millions of unnecessary and immoral deaths, the answer to a hypothetical “should we invite a prominent, if not the MOST prominent, pro-choice proponent to be given the honor of speaking to the flock at one of its most important formative moments?” question is fairly obvious. I don’t want to over-dramatize it, but if we/you/anyone believes commencement messages are an honor to the speaker, Universities ought to, and I’m sure they do, review exactly what they’re honoring. ND ran that cost-benefit out and came up with net positive for the invitation. Not everyone has or will.

Repurblican on March 24, 2009 at 5:58 PM

Of course the universities don’t let Sarah Palin do it. Because they are elitist liberals who are elitist about being liberal. And elitism.

Proud Rino on March 24, 2009 at 5:58 PM

Stop talking about the pope Phil. The question is about The Messiah speaking and receiving an honorary degree. How can you give a man a degree for “being a good statesman” when he has yet to be a good statesman? Two months as president does not a statesman make.

Speaking of degrees: I wonder if he will ever release his transcripts. We have no idea how his grades were at Occidental College, Columbia or Harvard.

Hope. Change. Transparency. Hypocrisy.

cannonball on March 24, 2009 at 5:59 PM

A university is no place for philosophical disagreements. I think we can at least agree on that much.

Proud Rino on March 24, 2009 at 5:59 PM

A university is no place for philosophical disagreements.

Proud Rino on March 24, 2009 at 5:59 PM

Or, in the words of president Merkin Muffley, “Gentlemen, you can’t fight in here! This is the war room!”

coldwarrior on March 24, 2009 at 6:01 PM

You are becoming the master of situational ethics.

eaglesdontflock on March 24, 2009 at 5:13 PM

Ouch.

baldilocks on March 24, 2009 at 6:03 PM

A university is no place for philosophical disagreements. I think we can at least agree on that much.

Proud Rino on March 24, 2009 at 5:59 PM

I would have no problem if Obama was going to ND to debate Bobby Jindal, or Newt Gingrich.

neuquenguy on March 24, 2009 at 6:04 PM

South Bend’s Bishop John D’Arcy will not be attending the Notre Dame commencement, and he offers compelling reasons why: http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=Mjc5MzIwYTdmNjlhZDJlZTBiODE2MTYyOWE5ZDVjNzk=

onlineanalyst on March 24, 2009 at 6:04 PM

Another way to look at it – If Obama was pro-life, yet advocated that all Jews be gassed and their bodies cremated, would it now be less acceptable to have him honored at Notre Dame?

Far more children have been murdered through abortion than ever died in the holocaust.

If you truly believe that abortion is murder, then what is the difference between the standard Democrat and the Nazi apologists back in the 1930′s?

Wouldn’t it be hypocritical to pretend that they are not roughly the same?

ksm on March 24, 2009 at 6:05 PM

If you truly believe that abortion is murder, then what is the difference between the standard Democrat and the Nazi apologists back in the 1930’s?

ksm on March 24, 2009 at 6:05 PM

Nazi apologists? No. No no no. You’re comparing people that are pro-choice to Hitler and actual, for real Nazis. Not apologists. The actual, Poland-invading, Jew killing Nazis.

Proud Rino on March 24, 2009 at 6:07 PM

“The Catholic community and Catholic institutions should not honor those who act in defiance of our fundamental moral principles. They should not be given awards, honors or platforms which would suggest support for their actions.”

What part of this statement issued by the U.S. council of bishops is unclear to you?

That statement applies to Notre Dame, a Catholic institution. An honorary doctorate is the highest honor that the University can bestow. The process for determining who is awarded an honorary doctorate is quite involved, involving multiple levels of approvals and, yes, vetting. (I know. I have participated in this process at a university that is the caliber of ND.)

The University president and his board of trustees had other ways to acknowledge Obama’s historic presidency. Instead of consulting with their local bishop, they chose to bestow their highest honor on him and drag a bunch of graduates and their families into the whole mess by having him speak at the commencement ceremony.

I got into Notre Dame for undergrad school (but decided not to go there). I can assure you that if Obama were receiving his HDr at my commencement ceremony, my father would not have attended the ceremony. And, frankly, I would not have either.

Y-not on March 24, 2009 at 6:07 PM

I’m curious what Proud Rino does for a living. S/he apparently knows nothing about how a university works.

Y-not on March 24, 2009 at 6:08 PM

Phil Donahue speaks best when he has his head firmly planted up his own ass.

GarandFan on March 24, 2009 at 6:09 PM

neuquenguy on March 24, 2009 at 6:04 PM

You want Newt Gingrich to be on morality’s side? You sure about that?

Proud Rino on March 24, 2009 at 6:10 PM

I got into Notre Dame for undergrad school (but decided not to go there). I can assure you that if Obama were receiving his HDr at my commencement ceremony, my father would not have attended the ceremony. And, frankly, I would not have either.

Y-not on March 24, 2009 at 6:07 PM

I hope a significant number of graduates will stay away. It will suck missing their graduation (like I did) but their stand will have far greater value when they look back on it.

neuquenguy on March 24, 2009 at 6:11 PM

Y-not on March 24, 2009 at 6:08 PM

I’m not telling, but I’ll give you a hint: I spend about 16 hrs a day at a university.

Proud Rino on March 24, 2009 at 6:12 PM

Nazi apologists? No. No no no. You’re comparing people that are pro-choice to Hitler and actual, for real Nazis. Not apologists. The actual, Poland-invading, Jew killing Nazis.

Proud Rino on March 24, 2009 at 6:07 PM

I agree. Please apologise to Nazis for comparing them with pro-choicers.

Darth Executor on March 24, 2009 at 6:13 PM

You want Newt Gingrich to be on morality’s side? You sure about that?

Proud Rino on March 24, 2009 at 6:10 PM

Did I say that?

neuquenguy on March 24, 2009 at 6:13 PM

Oops! I should have read the comments before I posted the link, Y-not. Then again, the letter bears a repeating.

onlineanalyst on March 24, 2009 at 6:13 PM

A university is no place for philosophical disagreements. I think we can at least agree on that much.

Proud Rino on March 24, 2009 at 5:59 PM

But a graduation ceremony with an honorary degree? Debate panels, sure. The implications are different.

TheUnrepentantGeek on March 24, 2009 at 6:14 PM

I hope a significant number of graduates will stay away. It will suck missing their graduation (like I did) but their stand will have far greater value when they look back on it.

neuquenguy on March 24, 2009 at 6:11 PM

I think it’s sad that you are so intolerant that you would actually refuse the opportunity to see a sitting president give an address, regardless of political affiliation or anything else.

Proud Rino on March 24, 2009 at 6:14 PM

I’m not telling, but I’ll give you a hint: I spend about 16 hrs a day at a university.

Proud Rino on March 24, 2009 at 6:12 PM

My condolences.

TheUnrepentantGeek on March 24, 2009 at 6:15 PM

TheUnrepentantGeek on March 24, 2009 at 6:15 PM

I’m not happy about it either.

Proud Rino on March 24, 2009 at 6:16 PM

I think it’s sad that you are so intolerant that you would actually refuse the opportunity to see a sitting president give an address, regardless of political affiliation or anything else.

Proud Rino on March 24, 2009 at 6:14 PM

I think it’s funny that respect for the office of POTUS is so very recently fashionable.

TheUnrepentantGeek on March 24, 2009 at 6:16 PM

I think it’s sad that you are so intolerant that you would actually refuse the opportunity to see a sitting president give an address, regardless of political affiliation or anything else.

Proud Rino on March 24, 2009 at 6:14 PM

And I think you are totally clueless about standing on principle. Your pseudonym says it all.

neuquenguy on March 24, 2009 at 6:17 PM

TheUnrepentantGeek on March 24, 2009 at 6:16 PM

Yes, and the people that were disrespectful to Bush were idiots as well.

By the way, you can be morally opposed to abortion (in fact, I have a hard time seeing how anyone couldn’t be) but still believe that as the laws should be constructed, it should remain legal. Those are not necessarily inconsistent views. And Obama has said that he hopes to lower the number of abortions performed in his presidency.

He may agree entirely with the Catholic church with regard to abortion as a moral issue, but may simply disagree on the legal aspects – something the Catholic Church has no business being involved in anyway.

Or Obama’s a Nazi. That too.

Proud Rino on March 24, 2009 at 6:20 PM

Why do people bother with Obama? He’s motivated only by self-aggrandizement, and like all Libs gets a hard-on when a Conservative-leaning group gives him the time of day. We can already do a paint-by-numbers of what he’ll do and say: attend church with Michelle and the cute kids; toss a football around with some jocks; do some hoops; and give an uplifting talk about the value of life and the new era of responsibility, sounding Conservative and oh-so-Bill Cosbyish as he sends the next generation off to their dream-filled futures. That covers the foreground.

When he gets back to Washington, he’ll fill in the background with some atrocious piece of legislation that demeans life and the unborn.

It’s the typical Lib 2D mosaic that for them passes as thought and action. It’s as predictable and tedious as Black racism.

Interesting that Donohue has turned into a Left-wing fluffer. He’s good at thought.

EMD on March 24, 2009 at 6:21 PM

Two months as president does not a statesman make.

You got that right.

scalleywag on March 24, 2009 at 6:21 PM

Phil who?

And to think that Phil made Chris Matthews’ ratings look good by comparison.

I think That Girl was the only person who actually watched him.

molonlabe28 on March 24, 2009 at 6:22 PM

I think That Girl was the only person who actually watched him.

molonlabe28 on March 24, 2009 at 6:22 PM

Heard that Marlo insists that the lights are turned off…

coldwarrior on March 24, 2009 at 6:25 PM

I think it’s sad that you are so intolerant that you would actually refuse the opportunity to see a sitting president give an address, regardless of political affiliation or anything else.

Proud Rino on March 24, 2009 at 6:14 PM

So if Hugo Chavez was President of the U.S., you would show him respect by attending this event? What about Adolf Hitler? Where do you draw your line? At what point do you decide to take a stand? Regardless of who it is and what their views, you would show them respect simply because of the position they hold? If so, you’re nothing but a zombie. No mind of your own and no ability to stand for anything.

Of course, your screen name gives you away, so the entire debate is meaningless.

Gregor on March 24, 2009 at 6:26 PM

Of course, your screen name gives you away, so the entire debate is meaningless.

Gregor on March 24, 2009 at 6:26 PM

You got that right

Jamson64 on March 24, 2009 at 6:28 PM

Bringing in a speaker who rejects a major tenet of the faith suggests that the inviting institution may not take that tenet very seriously, and I’m sure there are plenty of people at Notre Dame and elsewhere who feel that’s what’s going on at ND.

Repurblican on March 24, 2009 at 5:58 PM

By that reasoning, no speaker who does not acknowledge the primacy of the Holy See would be allowed to speak at Notre Dame. Heck, any speaker that refuses to acknowledge the Divinity of Jesus or the Holy Trinity would not be allowed to speak.

New_Jersey_Buckeye on March 24, 2009 at 6:30 PM

By that reasoning, no speaker who does not acknowledge the primacy of the Holy See would be allowed to speak at Notre Dame. Heck, any speaker that refuses to acknowledge the Divinity of Jesus or the Holy Trinity would not be allowed to speak.

New_Jersey_Buckeye on March 24, 2009 at 6:30 PM

My fellow Buckeye- the problem is that in this case it is the commencement speech and a Honorary Degree is to be given. It is not just a speech.

Jamson64 on March 24, 2009 at 6:36 PM

I will show the same respect for Obama that the Left and MSM showed President Bush !!!

golfer39 on March 24, 2009 at 6:37 PM

Donahue? Where did they dig him up? This must be has-been week.

RobCon on March 24, 2009 at 6:37 PM

Gregor on March 24, 2009 at 6:26 PM

I love that when people don’t have a substantive argument, they just point out the screen name. At the time I registered, it didn’t occur to me that people here didn’t have a sense of humor.

Also, love the comparison of Obama to Hitler. Seriously, keep this up. This worked out great for the Left with Bush in 2004. You guys try it now with Obama. It’s going to work this time.

Proud Rino on March 24, 2009 at 6:42 PM

If so, you’re nothing but a zombie. No mind of your own and no ability to stand for anything.

Yes. I have before and will again sit and listen to speeches by people I passionately disagree with.

This means I have no mind of my own. You only want to listen to people who are going to tell you what you want to hear, and this mean you *do* have a mind of your own.

Does hot snow fall up in backwardsland? I’ve never been there and I’m dying to know.

Proud Rino on March 24, 2009 at 6:45 PM

Also, love the comparison of Obama to Hitler. Seriously, keep this up. This worked out great for the Left with Bush in 2004. You guys try it now with Obama. It’s going to work this time.

Proud Rino on March 24, 2009 at 6:42 PM

Funny, I believe each argument I’ve made on this thread was backed up with facts, and I’m sure you know I did not compare Obama to Hitler anywhere in any of my comments. I simply asked you if you would respect someone like Hitler if he were to become President of the U.S., based on your claim that it was “intolerant” to not give respect to whoever happens to hold the position of President.

Conservatives don’t use the world intolerant unless it’s to mock liberals for throwing it around every time they have no other way to win a debate. You gave yourself away. Get over it.

Gregor on March 24, 2009 at 6:47 PM

Wow…Mr. Donahue avoided the question at hand like the plague.

ableushoe on March 24, 2009 at 6:49 PM

Yes. I have before and will again sit and listen to speeches by people I passionately disagree with.

Proud Rino on March 24, 2009 at 6:45 PM

Please. It’s not like you need to listen to the speech to figure out what he’s about. The truth is, you don’t “passionately disagree” with Obama. That’s what this is really about.

I listen to speeches and study any individual until such time as I feel confident what they stand for. If I happen to know that I disagree with everything a person stands for, why would I waste my time attending his speeches, unless I’m protesting? Are you really serious? It’s just embarrassing.

Gregor on March 24, 2009 at 6:52 PM

From Prof. McInerny:

Notre Dame is publicly excluding itself from allegiance to and acceptance of one of the most fundamental of Christian moral truths, mentioned explicitly in the Didache and again and again over the centuries. Abortion is an essentially evil act, both from the viewpoint of natural morality and from the explicit teaching the Church. There is no way in which an individual, a politician or an institution can finesse that fact.
.
By inviting Barack Obama as commencement speaker, Notre Dame is telling the nation that the teaching of the Catholic church on this fundamental matter can be ignored. Lip service may be paid to the teaching on abortion, but it is no impediment to upward mobility, to the truly vulgar lust to be welcomed into secular society, whether on the part of individuals or institutions.

.
[The Didache (pronounced DID-a-kay) is a bold and solidly endorsed Christian teaching some 1900 years old.]

Mark30339 on March 24, 2009 at 6:54 PM

they just point out the screen name. At the time I registered, it didn’t occur to me that people here didn’t have a sense of humor.

Proud Rino on March 24, 2009 at 6:42 PM

The problem is that your posts match your screen name pretty well, are we to assume your posts are a joke also?

neuquenguy on March 24, 2009 at 6:54 PM

Actually AP, since you don’t listen to God, why should you listen to the president of the united states? I really don’t want to expand my religious perjorative, I’m sure that there are thumpers that will blow the sox off Hot Air about it. However, isn’t there a biblical phrase to the effect of “get behind me satan”. Even the Christ did not want to talk to resident evil.

I’m really ashamed that I was suckered into this post by APs situational ethics.

Old Country Boy on March 24, 2009 at 6:58 PM

Something else people are overlooking here with the Pelosi comparison is that… she’s Catholic. The pope met with a member of the church he leads. Note that he did not allow any perception that her comments about the church and abortion to stand.

Obama’s not Catholic. He could be invited to speak, as the POTUS, but one of his most divisive issues contradicts an important principles of Notre Dame’s sponsoring faith. He probably shouldn’t be invited in the first place. But to add an honorary degree? Come on.

And it isn’t about “not associating” with prochoice people, nor do I think abortion will feature prominently in his address.

It’s about giving a platform to a public figure who clearly contradicts what the institution is (supposed to be) teaching.

cs89 on March 24, 2009 at 7:00 PM

I signed the petition.

ND Class of ’90

mikeyboss on March 24, 2009 at 7:02 PM

Also, Notre Dame is not a standard Catholic institution. It functions under Liberation Theology which the Jesuits started as a form of Christian Socialism.

They aren’t likely to withdraw the invitation as Obama’s views are actually closer to their own.

Gregor on March 24, 2009 at 5:28 PM

I hope you are not under the impression that Notre Dame is a Jesuit institution. I can tell you from experience that Jesuits and Notre Dame would both be highly offended at the very thought. In my opinion, Notre Dame is as about as far from Jesuit as you can get and still be Catholic. As for Notre Dame being a stronghold of Liberation Theology… again I believe you are grossly misinformed.

New_Jersey_Buckeye on March 24, 2009 at 7:07 PM

The President can be heard every single day by those who are interested to listen. A commencement is a once-a-year event, and the invitation to speak is a much greater honor than just “hearing someone out”.

mikeyboss on March 24, 2009 at 7:07 PM

Gregor on March 24, 2009 at 5:28 PM

ND’s not Jesuit, Gregor. It was founded by the Holy Cross brothers

mikeyboss on March 24, 2009 at 7:20 PM

Exit question: The president of the United States isn’t worth respectfully listening to? Seriously?

Yes, seriously, he isn’t worth respectfully listening to. He is not respectful of others when he flips the bird, insults the widow of Reagan, insults the UK MP and his family, insults disabled people, lies about public campaign financing, sends millions of dollars overseas to pay foreigners to have abortions, works tirelessly with his wife to keep partial birth and live birth abortion legal, spends our future generations into a debt they didn’t create.
How much more does he have to do to earn my disrespect??

Crusty on March 24, 2009 at 7:25 PM

That petition doesn’t mean anything, since I was able to sign it as “Rudy Hernandez” with a matching fake email address.

The Dean on March 24, 2009 at 7:43 PM

That petition doesn’t mean anything, since I was able to sign it as “Rudy Hernandez” with a matching fake email address.

The Dean on March 24, 2009 at 7:43 PM

Undoubtedly this will be a great comfort to Fr. Jenkins.

neuquenguy on March 24, 2009 at 7:54 PM

When I first read Jill Stanek’s account of the horrors perpetrated at Christ Hospital, I cried. A lot. On and off for several days. Living, breathing, *born* babies, were left to die, denied the bare minimum of medical care. Any person who knew that such cold blooded and inhumane practices were going on, and did nothing to stop them, is at least as guilty as the Germans that lived down the road from concentration camps and pretended that they were work camps.

But the arrogant asshole LEGISLATOR, that actively gave cover to the abortionists committing these acts, mocking Stanek’s concerns in a way that we’re beginning to see as his personal “style”, is a person that will never get my respect.

Is this really a pro-choice vs. pro-life issue for people? These weren’t abortions – they were murders by anyone’s definition – except the cynically narrow one perpetuated by the Illinois state legislature, led by Barack Obama, the one and only instance I’ve found of the man leading anything. And he chose this to take a stand on.

We’re not talking about drowning kittens here, though I suspect that that would get more people’s attention. What’s wrong with people? How can anyone excuse such a sickening lack of morality?

ral514 on March 24, 2009 at 8:46 PM

The president of the United States isn’t worth respectfully listening to? Seriously?

Yes, Allah – seriously.

If you are a Christian, then you believe that life is sacred. If you are a Roman Catholic, then you believe that all abortion is the taking of sacred and innocent life, i.e., murder. You would not happily invite someone who supports murder into your home, would you? Then why the astonishment that Roman Catholics wouldn’t want Barack Obama at their flagship American university?

That’s not to say that any Roman Catholic who thinks Obama should be welcomed to speak at ND is out to lunch, but neither does it follow that the converse is true, either. When you believe that you will answer to the lord your god for what you have done on earth, the nuances of political protocol don’t really amount to much.

greggriffith on March 24, 2009 at 8:56 PM

Who knew that donahue was still alive. Why would you have him on Sean and give him a voice?

Bambi on March 24, 2009 at 9:31 PM

I hope you are not under the impression that Notre Dame is a Jesuit institution.

New_Jersey_Buckeye on March 24, 2009 at 7:07 PM

ND’s not Jesuit, Gregor. It was founded by the Holy Cross brothers

mikeyboss on March 24, 2009 at 7:20 PM

Well, it looks like I’m feeling pretty stupid about now. I’ve been a Notre Dame fan my entire life and have always thought they were a Jesuit University. Seems I’m wrong.

I know the University’s College of Arts and Letters was founded on Jesuit Ratio Studiorum principles, but it looks like that’s about it.

Sorry about that, and I appreciate you pointing it out.

Gregor on March 24, 2009 at 10:07 PM

It would be like having Geraldo speak at your mutant cousin’s de-horning.

whitetop on March 24, 2009 at 10:10 PM

Donohue casually throws out the Million Iraqi Deaths trope, despite the fact that there is no evidence to support it. He knows he can get away with it because no one ever challenges him on his BS.

When someone does that, you have to be impolite and interrupt them with “that isn’t true”. When they say “let me finish”, you say “no, I won’t let you finish repeating a lie.”

The Monster on March 24, 2009 at 10:13 PM

There is a difference between granting someone an audience and honoring them. The comparison between Pelosi at Rome and Obama at Notre Dame is not even close.

Pelosi was a public figure who had a private audience with the Pope, at which time no photos were taken to honor the event, and after which time it was made clear where he stood with her public positions.

Obama is getting an honorary degree. It is unlikely anyone at the commencement exercises will use this opportunity to chastise him for his position on killing the unborn.

manwithblackhat on March 24, 2009 at 10:17 PM

Gregor on March 24, 2009 at 10:07 PM

The confusion is understandable. Notre Dame behaves like a Jesuit university.

manwithblackhat on March 24, 2009 at 10:19 PM

In fact, the Pope himself received Nancy Pelosi not long ago at the Vatican, as I recall. No one presumed an endorsement of her views in that circumstance. Why the presumption here vis-a-vis The One? Exit question: The president of the United States isn’t worth respectfully listening to? Seriously?

Re: exit question — Seriously? Is that going to be the crux of your argument? Cuz its not the same thing. However, because you want to make a point you’ll continue with this fallacy…

I’m sure Pelosi would have described it as an exchange of ideas, which in theory is what should happen at universities. My point is, if pro-choicers are so monstrous that they’re unfit to be heard, why is the Pope even gracing them with his presence?

Allahpundit on March 24, 2009 at 5:27 PM

And the fallacy is now so ingrained, that even more ridiculous questions ensue . . .

Question: Will the Pope receive Obama when he visits Italy? What if the White House specifies that it’s purely a courtesy call, and not meant to talk policy (abortion or otherwise)? Will he receive him then?

Allahpundit on March 24, 2009 at 5:31 PM

I await Ed’s wisdom (and knowledge of all things Catholic relative to AP) yet no intervention. [Ed, don't you care for AP?]

Obama’s not anti-Catholic, he simply disagrees with Catholics on a very important subject.

Allahpundit on March 24, 2009 at 5:40 PM

The value of life is the essence of being catholic. While Obama will not outright say that he is anti-catholic, his actions are loud (albeit i want to be perfectly clear that I believe he is not acting intentionally or calculated). His abortion and human embyonic stem cell policies are anti-catholic to the core.

This is why your whole argument is a fallacy, you do not know Catholicism yet insist on telling Catholics what should be their proper Catholic response.

geckomon on March 24, 2009 at 10:25 PM

WHO????

pgrossjr on March 24, 2009 at 10:26 PM

Question: Will the Pope receive Obama when he visits Italy? What if the White House specifies that it’s purely a courtesy call, and not meant to talk policy (abortion or otherwise)? Will he receive him then?

Allahpundit on March 24, 2009 at 5:31 PM

The difference is that the Pope is also a head of state and would most likely receive Obama as such. And he probably would not confer any honor upon The One.

As to your complaints that pro-choice people are mistreated…why not reverse the situation…why would a pro-abortion person want to associate/speak before/receive an honor from pro-life people? Why would someone who disagrees with one of the main tenets of a group want to receive an honor from them? Or are pro-choice people so easily swayed by the thought of an award or invitation they are ready to ignore who is giving it?

ND put the President in an untenable position foolishly. If he really does disagree with their pro-life beliefs, he should have been uncomfortable with the situation, even before the uproar. Unfortunately I doubt that he is.

And being elected to the Presidency is not a guarantee of respect. It’s something that has to be earned, and so far Obama hasn’t done that.

Deanna on March 24, 2009 at 11:14 PM

Yikes.

Well, first can I say: let’s lighten up on Allah? He doesn’t deserve all the snide remarks. Let’s grow up here. Or, in true Allah style, “LEAVE ALLAHPUNDIT ALONE! YOU’RE LUCKY HE EVEN POSTS FOR YOU!”

Second, Martha: you magnificent bastard Fox!

Third, Donahue’s age and his freely admitting his lack of communion (not Communion, though he lacks that as well) ought to remove him from the position of offering advice on how to attract more young Catholics. It’s watered down Catholic parents like him who are leading those kids astray. As a 23-year-old campus ministry volunteer, I’ve seen and heard what young Catholics want and it’s not the wishy-washy, liberal, non-demanding babble Donahue is peddling. As Obama’s popularity proves, young people are looking desperately for a leader, for someone to tell them the truth, and at least from my experience and the young people I’ve met who take a strong interest in the Church/faith, they want someone or something sturdy, true, and tangible that expects something of them. Baby-boomers seem to be (overgeneralizing here) largely incapable of understanding that, as they’ve spent their entire lives fighting against anybody telling them what is right or wrong.

Finally, to the argument here. I think the main point of protest is about the honorary degree (as Allah quoted), and I think most of us agree that Catholic doctrine, especially the passage Allah and the petition quoted, would demand that Obama not be granted such an honor.

The President of the US is certainly someone whose office should be respected, and I admit that after I got over my initial anger I thought, “Well what the heck? He’s going to be just one of many Presidents to address ND.” But now that I’ve thought more about it, that’s not quite true.

Obama is a particular case especially because of all the attention his pro-choice beliefs have gotten, their extreme nature, his refusal to soften them to any degree, his recent actions regarding conscience-clauses and stem-cell research, his general disrespect for the pro-life position, and more. Let us also not forget that the degree is meant to be a law degree, which, even if we focus solely on the legal realm, should disqualify him for his unyielding support for the intellectual and legal travesty that was Roe v. Wade. ND would be giving him a law degree for supporting one of the most pathetic pieces of law in Supreme Court history, one which also happened to open the door to infanticide-on-demand.

If the “Catholic morals” argument and the “good legal mind” argument both fail to explain his presence, then pretty much all that’s left is the “He’s the President” argument. That might be fine by itself, but unfortunately that can’t be divorced from the other two aspects. There’s no separating the “Obama the President” from “Obama the abortion-enabler,” at least in terms of granting him the degree and platform.

As Fr. Jonathan mentioned, Catholics aren’t trying to silence Obama (for one, it’s not like he just automatically has the right to speak at ND). They simply don’t want to imply any support for his views, which I think is necessarily implied by inviting someone for commencement speaker. These speakers are supposed to be people who are viewed as role models, people to imitate, or moral or intellectual paragons. Not that Obama cannot be those in some regard, but from the Catholic viewpoint, his credibility is severely dented in each of those areas.

To summarize: It’s not silencing people who disagree with the Church; it’s refusing to grant them honors when said disagreements are grievous enough to warrant clear and public denouncement.

PaisleyCow on March 25, 2009 at 1:10 AM

Interesting that Donohue has turned into a Left-wing fluffer. He’s good at thought.

EMD on March 24, 2009 at 6:21 PM

Turned into?

warbaby on March 25, 2009 at 1:56 AM

Heh. Catholics ususally vote Democrat. The internal struggle must be painful over this.

Like someone said above: Let Palin do it. She’s as pro-life as they come.

Black Adam on March 25, 2009 at 4:39 AM

…you are so intolerant that you would actually refuse the opportunity to see a sitting president give an address, regardless of political affiliation or anything else.

Proud Rino on March 24, 2009 at 6:14 PM

That intolerant,“or anything else” that you left dangling by the “sitting president” are the lifeless remains of children, after having their brains sucked out… no one professing to be Catholic should be honoring a man who has the blood of these innocents on his hands. Perhaps, some other time ND can host a debate between Amadingyjob and the Obama, billed as the Dualing Presidents Debate–Topic: Murder as a Management Tool.

“Let’s Roll”

On Watch on March 25, 2009 at 4:42 AM

why does FNC give this leftist tool a microphone? Always whining and compromising.

It’s simple: “LIFE, LIBERTY, PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS”

Notice what comes first?

Black Adam on March 25, 2009 at 5:00 AM

I sent a letter to the president of that secular humanist institution of higher indoctrination. It wasn’t at all polite or respectful and will probably end up in file 13, but sometimes I’m just freaking tired of jackholes like that wearing clerical collars. Any Catholic priest who supports this insult to the murdered unborn should admit his ordination was a fraud and walk away from the church.
This is the Catholic church, not the Republican Party, and the tent cannot be that damned big.

SKYFOX on March 25, 2009 at 6:09 AM

I hope a significant number of graduates will stay away. It will suck missing their graduation (like I did) but their stand will have far greater value when they look back on it.

neuquenguy on March 24, 2009 at 6:11 PM

I think that this is the wrong approach. I think you need to pay more attention to what the left has done in the past for the answer. Instead of avoiding this you should attend and let him and the world know that we don’t want his murderous ways, and everyone that values human life should fly a banner and voice his/her opinion. The first ammendment is your God given right. Use it.

SGinNC on March 25, 2009 at 8:32 AM

Old Phil forgets that mothers and fathers work full-time jobs and often weekends today and, rightly or wrongly, may be too exhausted to attend mass, as they did when he was a boy.

It appears that though Mr. Donahue claims to be a Catholic, he is creating his own “personalized” Catholic doctrine.

Obama should be permitted to speak at Notre Dame but he should not be honored, in any way, by the Catholic institution. Father Jenkins is hardly a role model for the Catholic students, in his care.

Kudos to Father Jonathan Morris, for his wise and reasonable words, and for correcting Mr. Donahue’s false assertion that few men are entering the priesthood. Father Morris set the record straight by sharing that his present class consists of 450 students, and is filled to capacity.

Wasn’t Phil Donahue a prince for not asking the Catholic church to annul his marriage to his first wife, Marge, to whom he was married for about 17 years and with whom he fathered five children?

sinsing on March 25, 2009 at 8:45 AM

A university is no place for philosophical disagreements. I think we can at least agree on that much.

Proud Rino on March 24, 2009 at 5:59 PM

I hope this is sarcasm. I cannot believe that this statement was made in serious discourse. Philosophical disagreements is are the lifeblood of university. It isn’t a college (collection of like minds). It is to seek all truths. How can you do that without philosophical disagreements. You are a typical marxist/socialist/democrat piece of sh… whose main tactic of arguement is to keep other people from countering your views.

This sounds like an argument for Obamas speaking. However, graduation is not a program of university discourse. This is supposed to be the showcase of Catholic educational philosophy. Where were you, proud RINO, when self-described universities all over the country were trying to have conservative or controversial speakers in the lecture hall, only to be be prevented from speaking by your socialist/marxist/democrat friends? Where were you when only socialist speakers were invited and paid for by student fees, collected from all students. Where were you when conservative students were thrown out of university in the name of diversity.

Old Country Boy on March 25, 2009 at 9:12 AM

So being open to dialogue is all-important no matter the speaker’s views?

This is the same rationale that Columbia U used to host Ahmadinejad.

I’m not Catholic, but an outsider’s perspective on this is: this is why Catholics lose so much respect for their faith.

Obama wants to kill babies who live through an abortion….kill born babies that survive an abortion. Is Notre Dame nutz?

Yes. Yes it is.

ex-Democrat on March 25, 2009 at 9:14 AM

I hope this is sarcasm.

Say hello to our resident astroturfer …. they are on overdrive lately with all of Soetoro’s mistakes so even the non-clever ones have to be used.

ex-Democrat on March 25, 2009 at 9:16 AM

Phil Donohue is a useful idiot for several causes. His logic rivals any four year old and doesn’t help promote ND’s principles on graduating intellectuals. But I believe he is an outlier on the bell curve so you can discount him.

As an alumn, I deplore the idea of awarding an honorary degree or letting The One have the stage without some debate. It’s inappropriate to say the least and disingenuous to be more specific. I’m ashamed of my school for not having the courage to really have a debate but to choose to go for the quick publicity stunt.

If he wants to speak, then lets have a debate ala the Chritstianty debates of D’Souza and Hitchens but since they didn’t use telepromters I guess The One won’t take up that offer.

IndyConserv on March 25, 2009 at 9:44 AM

A few months back, someONE was offended that the Chapel on the campus of The College of William and Mary in Virginia displayed a cross. No matter that one of the primary reasons for establishment of The College was to bring the knowledge of Jesus Christ to the unsaved. No matter that it is a Christian chapel. One person was offended, so the College’s response was to order the cross removed from THE CHAPEL. There was public outrage here locally, but the necessity of Political Correctness was far more important. What it took to get noticed by the College president, was the withdrawal of a $12 million gift by a former graduate. Perhaps the folks who are graduates of Notre Dame should take a lesson here.

And as a PS, the image of Donahue most deeply burned in my memory, was the time he did a show on the “sufferings” of transvestites. To show his solidarity, he came out on stage wearing a dress, high heels, and nylons. That pretty much says it all.

oldleprechaun on March 25, 2009 at 10:58 AM

Maybe somebody should tell Phil that an invite to a commencement isn’t a debate. It typically isn’t given to someone whose views are antithetical to what is ostensibly one of the core values of that institution.

Phil still hasn’t gotten over the fact that the Church stands for things that are difficult to do or that he doesn’t agree with; self restraint, not indulging in gay sex, etc. His view on Church teaching seems to be the same as his view of the Constitution – it should be ever-evolving. He is, of course wrong on both counts but too immature to accept this reality. A mature person would either accept the Church’s teaching or leave the Church. And so he whines.

Phil, grow up.

nocomme1 on March 25, 2009 at 11:09 AM

nocomme1

He’s not completely to blame. Sometimes I think the church is happy to have high-profile people claim to be Catholic, even if their lifestyle and stated position is anything but.
Still, Donahue is a limp member…er, of the church.

SKYFOX on March 25, 2009 at 11:27 AM

This boils down to the right of free association. The ones signing the petition are not wishing to be associated with Obama and this event. Why would that be wrong?

Dr. Dog on March 25, 2009 at 12:56 PM

His abortion and human embyonic stem cell policies are anti-catholic to the core.
.
geckomon on March 24, 2009 at 10:25 PM

.
Anti-Christian

darktood on March 25, 2009 at 1:16 PM

Bringing in a speaker who rejects a major tenet of the faith suggests that the inviting institution may not take that tenet very seriously.

If this is the case, then no ID or creationist advocate should ever be invited to speak at a secular school again, given it is as antithetical to science as abortion is to the Catholic Church.

maleman on March 25, 2009 at 3:00 PM

If this is the case, then no ID or creationist advocate should ever be invited to speak at a secular school again, given it is as antithetical to science as abortion is to the Catholic Church.

Actually no. ID and creationist advocates don’t want to facilitate the killing of their opposition’s infants.

Haunches on March 25, 2009 at 4:46 PM

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