Canadian court orders release of forum data
posted at 8:36 am on March 24, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
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A judge has ordered Free Dominion, the Canadian counterpart to Free Republic, to release the records of its anonymous forum posters in order to enable a lawsuit by Richard Warman. The release will mean the end of anonymity for all practical purposes in Canada, as well as an end to privacy for Free Dominion itself, which must also produce all its hosting agreements and ownership information as well. The judge offered this ironic justification for his order:
[33] In the case before the court, we are dealing with an anti-hate speech advocate and Defendants whose website is so controversial that it is blocked to employees of the Ontario Public Service.
That’s the threshold for privacy in Canada? Anyone styling themselves as an “anti-hate speech advocate” can raid the records of a web community he doesn’t like? Note also the circular reasoning here employed by Judge Stanley Kersham. If the government sees fit to block a website from its employees at some level, then it’s permissible to strip them of their rights to privacy and speech at any point.
As far as the “anti-hate-speech” advocate himself, Kersham seems to have missed this finding by the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal from just two weeks ago. Richard Warman was not just a customer of the CHRC, he was one of its big offenders as well:
I do not see any acceptable reason for Mr. Warman to have participated on the Stormfront or Vanguard sites, since there appears to be ample easily obtained messages on these sites available without his involvement. Moreover, it is possible that his activity in this regard, could have precipitated further hate messages in response. His explanation for including other hate messages in his postings by mistake seems very weak to me.
Mr. Warman has, with the assistance of the Commission, instituted most of the s. 13 (1) complaints under the Act that have come before the Tribunal. He has been very successful in these cases and has garnered accolades for his work in this regard. The evidence in this case of his participation on Internet sites similar to the Northern Alliance site is both disappointing and disturbing. It diminishes his credibility. For this reason and because the activities of the Respondents have ceased for a lengthy period of time, I will not make any further Orders in this matter.
In essence, Kersham just allowed a participant on neo-Nazi discussion forums to raid Free Dominion’s business records.
Free Dominion wants to fight this ruling but is just about out of funds. Read their entire post to find out how you can help, and keep up with the story at Five Feet of Fury as well. If you haven’t already done so, order your copy of Ezra Levant’s Shakedown, which has more on the Human Rights Commission, its tribunal, and Richard Warman.
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Me thinks I better post my comments
deep in the great white north,
just in case,the internet Gaustopo
want to see if my posts are in proper
order!!!(Sarc)
canopfor on March 24, 2009 at 8:42 AM
Hate speech laws inherently violate free speech and it doesn’t matter what “logic” a judge uses to impose their ruling. Logic went out the window when the hate speech codes were written.
myrenovations on March 24, 2009 at 8:43 AM
So now the trolls are in charge in Canada.
If you want to take down a forum, anonymously post “hate speech”, declare yourself an “anti-hate speech advocate” and sue. Presto, anonymity is gone and anyone who defends against such a lawsuit will go bankrupt.
rbj on March 24, 2009 at 8:45 AM
Another day; another Orwellian moment.
Disturb the Universe on March 24, 2009 at 8:45 AM
Coming soon to a country near you.
boomer on March 24, 2009 at 8:45 AM
Oh, wait that’s already a country near me. I guess we are next.
boomer on March 24, 2009 at 8:45 AM
Omg liberals are such blatant totalitarians.
Bunch of POS
blatantblue on March 24, 2009 at 8:47 AM
“Your papers, please!…
These don’t seem to be in order. You will come with us!”
Frozen Tex on March 24, 2009 at 8:47 AM
No big deal here. What Greg Gutfeld is saying at 3 AM is far more important.
Mark1971 on March 24, 2009 at 8:48 AM
Oh great, I’m so happy my comments on Free Dominion will now be available to the despicable Richard Warman.
Unf**king believable.
CarolynM on March 24, 2009 at 8:49 AM
Soon the Obama hate crime police will want to know, Who is this Allahpundit person.
petefrt on March 24, 2009 at 8:57 AM
And then they’ll turn their attention on all of us.
Disturb the Universe on March 24, 2009 at 8:59 AM
Fight back, Canadians. Your government can only take your rights away if you’re willing to let them do it.
AZCoyote on March 24, 2009 at 9:00 AM
I will gladly tell them who I am. But i would be most embarrassed at misspelled words, poor grammar or just gross factual errors. but i am proud of my sentiments.
and i have guns. and i know how to use them.
kelley in virginia on March 24, 2009 at 9:02 AM
“Your papers,please!…
Frozen Tex on Mar 24,2009 at 8:47AM.
Frozen Tex: Thats what it sounds like!
And whats old,is new again!:)
Mr. Canopfor,you are mocking and besmirching the American
President,
and in Canada,it won’t be tolerated,will you come with us,
oh,and you’ll have to carry your computer to the interro
gation site,located on every corner,next to a Tim Hortens
coffee shop!(Snark).
canopfor on March 24, 2009 at 9:02 AM
No one expects a Canadian Inquisition!!
AubieJon on March 24, 2009 at 9:08 AM
Dunno … I’m thinking I’d like to see an end to all anonymity on the web. I mean seroiusly, this anonymity has really turned the place into a chaotic mess – which Democrats exploit for astro-turfing purposes. Sure, we could do the same – but it just doesn’t seem right to do so. There is a lot of inflamatory speech on the web – and no one has to take responsibility for them. You can say horrifically bad things about someone (like Sarah Palin) … And you have to answer to no one for this. And then the MSM picks up on it – repeats it under the guise that they’re just reporting what is being said. I think it’s wrong.
If you say something – you ought to be proud of what you said. When I worked at the White House with Bush 41 … We had a saying … “Don’t do anything in your private life that you would be embarrased to read on the front page of the Washington Post”. This became known as the “Washington Post Test”. Seems if more people lived by this credo – this would be a nicer world – and this nation wouldn’t be as polorized as it currently is.
HondaV65 on March 24, 2009 at 9:15 AM
You’re forgetting the first rule of fight club.
TexasDan on March 24, 2009 at 9:18 AM
Not the comfy chair!!
TexasDan on March 24, 2009 at 9:19 AM
Wow.
We are losing a ton of privacy, Bush really accelerated this and Obama is going to finish the job.
On a related note, I hope you all see this video. It appears FEMA has some plans.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rT8tZwxlYo
Sounds like a bank holiday via the Great Depression. Also rationing of food and major checkpoints around August-September. All in the major cities. Possible gun confiscations as well.
We need to wake up to the reality of our situation.
True_King on March 24, 2009 at 9:23 AM
In Canada, it might be the frou-frou duvet.
AubieJon on March 24, 2009 at 9:24 AM
Honda – I see where you’re coming from in regards to incivility online. On the other hand, many decent posters use the anonymity to protect themselves from retribution. We have some profs here at HA whose jobs would be at risk if it was known they posted at HA. Not because of anything shameful they’ve said here, but simply because this is a conservative site.
JadeNYU on March 24, 2009 at 9:27 AM
wait, what is the 1st rule of fight club?
kelley in virginia on March 24, 2009 at 9:27 AM
Where are our resident shit spewing Canadian trolls? I know they’ll justify this, but I still want to see it on record.
csdeven on March 24, 2009 at 9:29 AM
If privacy and anonymity are ended for one, then they are ended for all.
drjohn on March 24, 2009 at 9:35 AM
Wow. Just wow.
If we lived by this credo, yes, it would be a nicer world… at least, to your face. Look, I’m all for people being respectful to each other and for honor and morals to be the law of the land. However, when the Government is the one dictating what the code of honor is, and which way your moral compass should point… then you are NOT living in a free society, but in an open air prison.
What needs to happen, is people like us need to spend less time posting crap on the Internet whining about Liberals this, and Liberals that. We need to get involved with our local politics, we need to have families and raise them with honor and morals, and we need to teach our children from an early age that we almost lost the essence of this country because WE got selfish and worked all the time instead of having families and being involved in OUR government. We DO NOT need the government telling us how to live, rather we need to BE our government.
KMC1 on March 24, 2009 at 9:40 AM
So, would this mean that posters might be parties to any lawsuit or such?
jeanie on March 24, 2009 at 9:44 AM
According to the Free Dominion website, admin stopped recording IP addresses of members/posters over a year ago, so s*$#-for-brains Central may be out of luck.
RepubChica on March 24, 2009 at 9:47 AM
This is what happens when your nation’s constitution is “alive,” and not just alive, dancing and playing….
RBMN on March 24, 2009 at 9:53 AM
Canada public service blocks the site. I bet that was a tough decision. What happens when unions run the government for the benefit of unions.
tarpon on March 24, 2009 at 9:55 AM
Yeah, well, as much as I dislike Warman (and I do dislike him), people can’t go around slandering him and expect to hide behind the anonymity of the internet.
Krydor on March 24, 2009 at 9:55 AM
Some people may ask why anonymity is important to me. I now have a two-word answer: “Deborah Frisch”.
If that isn’t enough for you, go back and look at some of the videos of shrieking moonbats going after Michelle.
The Monster on March 24, 2009 at 9:58 AM
Unreal. How the hell does such idiocy get to that point…and why has not one bit of the evolution of the PC crap or the individual cases been reported on?
Itchee Dryback on March 24, 2009 at 10:06 AM
Walls do not a prison, make.
OldEnglish on March 24, 2009 at 10:07 AM
When identities are revealed, ACORN will probably organize bus tours for thugs who want to light their houses afire.
petefrt on March 24, 2009 at 10:08 AM
In the case before the court, we are dealing with an anti-hate speech advocate and Defendants whose website is so controversial that it is blocked to employees of the Ontario Public Service.
The government official whose edict blocked the website probably needs to remain anonymous. I imagine that the judge’s quote wouldn’t have whatever intended effect he’s going for if it read “so controversial that career government worker Mr. Dudley Doof entered the website into the government computer network’s Net Nanny software”.
This way it seems like some kind of God blocked the website. At least in the mind of the typical Canadian that the judge is trying to convince.
Buddahpundit on March 24, 2009 at 10:17 AM
I don’t go quite that far, as I think there are too many who would hunt you down to harass you–or worse–if you said something they didn’t agree with (read: prop 8 opponents in CA). But I do agree with the concept of not putting anything out there that you wouldn’t want everyone to know was said by you. I have occasionally googled myself to find comments I made 10 years ago on one board or another. Things never really go away.
Bob's Kid on March 24, 2009 at 10:23 AM
Someone needs to develop a P2P forum system. No servers.
- The Cat
MirCat on March 24, 2009 at 10:40 AM
Re-education camps the next step. Along with removal of all minors to be given to same-sex couples to raise.
petunia on March 24, 2009 at 10:47 AM
LiveUSB bootups, distributed networks like Tor, and SSL encryption. Average won’t even find those incredibly hard to use if they care two hoots about anonymity.
Canadians – either fight for your privacy with words and legal documents now…or fight for it with guns and explosives later. This is crunch time.
Dark-Star on March 24, 2009 at 10:47 AM
At their jobs at the HRC.
Laura in Maryland on March 24, 2009 at 2:08 PM
The secret of maintaining civility on blog forums is not revealing real names; it is active moderation.
/Mr Lynn
MrLynn on March 24, 2009 at 3:10 PM
I’ve checked into FD off and on for years and they’re so… Canadian… that I just can’t feature them being called a hate site by anyone who’s actually looked at them.
Anyway, they take PayPal. I sent ‘em $25 and highly recommend others do likewise.
PersonFromPorlock on March 24, 2009 at 8:41 PM
I thought Canadians were against torture. If so, this idiot judge should be brought up on charges for what he’s done to logic and reason.
SKYFOX on March 25, 2009 at 4:41 AM
I wonder if Canadian bloggers used an American Internet Service Provider (or used servers located in the United States) could they then defeat the HRC’s Thought Police? Would they then be protected under American laws or have First Amendment rights?
J.S. on March 25, 2009 at 11:46 AM
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