Video: The obligatory “Glenn Beck interviews Ramos and Compean” post
posted at 7:18 pm on March 20, 2009 by Allahpundit
The softball interview to end all softball interviews, although Beck didn’t have a choice: It sounds like they’re either still under some sort of gag order that prevents them from discussing the case or they’re being tactfully silent while they wait to find out if the Supreme Court will take their appeal. (Almost all of the charges against them were upheld by the Fifth Circuit last summer.) Even so, we are dealing here with two guys convicted in federal court of committing crimes and credibly accused of trying to cover them up. As Andy McCarthy (in)famously said, “Compean and Ramos are bad guys.” Beck treats them as if they were political prisoners, even calling them “the dynamic duo” at one point. Dynamic at what? Generating red meat for blogs and talk radio?
Give him credit, though, for smoothly integrating this story into his running narrative about how alone and powerless Americans feel. The man is always on message.
Blowback
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If I think they are going to pull a gun on me, yeah, I would.
Why don’t you educate yourself on this case a little bit more, eh?
BlameAmericaLast on March 20, 2009 at 8:25 PM
As a matter of fact, when it comes to drug smugglers, I would be cool if they had shot him in the face, then burned his body, rolled his ashes up with some of his cargo in some J&B paper, and smoked him while guzzling a cerveza
Sugarbuzz on March 20, 2009 at 8:26 PM
Upstater85 on March 20, 2009 at 8:24 PM
She said he’s a border patrol agent. They have to deal with all sorts of nasty people… I’m sure he’ll have to file a report on something or another at some point.
DaveS on March 20, 2009 at 8:26 PM
From what? Blood loss? I was simply comparing getting shot in the butt (fleshy tissue) vs. getting shot in the back (bullet could hit your heart)
Anyway, NOW I’m done.
nickj116 on March 20, 2009 at 8:26 PM
Trust me, my husband doesn’t need advice from you, daves.
HornetSting on March 20, 2009 at 8:26 PM
Seven Percent Solution on March 20, 2009 at 8:21 PM
I believe all law enforcement officers have to file an after action report anytime they discharge their weapons while in performance of their duties whether their Supers were there or not.
goat on March 20, 2009 at 8:27 PM
Limbaugh’s arsenal consists of facts, humor and conservative convictions. Beck is an emotional populist. In one week he has been on both sides of the AIG bonus issue. What are his convictions and where does he get his facts?
Terrie on March 20, 2009 at 8:27 PM
BlameAmericaLast on March 20, 2009 at 8:25 PM
Sorry dude, in this country you don’t get to run around killing people with the convenient excuse that you “thought they were going to pull a gun on you”.
DaveS on March 20, 2009 at 8:28 PM
Dude?
Weight of Glory on March 20, 2009 at 8:28 PM
AP There’s an opening at the Daily Kos, please take it…
You’re dragging this site down….
Really.
frizzbee on March 20, 2009 at 8:29 PM
Cops are vulnerable to being shot at no matter what the circumstances. They are in danger of getting shot when pulling someone over, when knocking on a door. Cops have been killed in both situations. But that doesn’t justify, on paper, them pulling over every driver with a gun stop or knocking on doors with weapons drawn.
If cops shot at every threat, life would be pretty wild in the states.
The Race Card on March 20, 2009 at 8:29 PM
HornetSting on March 20, 2009 at 8:26 PM
I’m sorry that such a simple concept confuses you, but its true. If you want to be believed by people, you shouldn’t lie.
DaveS on March 20, 2009 at 8:30 PM
You seemed to be implying that her husband would go out of his way to lie someday.
Upstater85 on March 20, 2009 at 8:31 PM
Did Glenn Beck start sobbing in this interview with a couple of criminals or did he manage to act like a man for 10 minutes or so?
Proud Rino on March 20, 2009 at 8:31 PM
Dude, now you seem to be insinuating that she and her husband are lying…
Upstater85 on March 20, 2009 at 8:32 PM
You obviously didn’t read my entire statement. My husband and I both agree that they messed up by covering up, but did they really deserve ten and eleven year sentences? No.
Now, as far as my husband is concerned, he doesn’t need your advice or your Monday morning quarterbacking.
In fact, you couldn’t even lick his boots, much less walk in them.
HornetSting on March 20, 2009 at 8:32 PM
Yeah, because all cops lie, upstater85. Right?
HornetSting on March 20, 2009 at 8:33 PM
WTF? Are you Allah’s secretary or something?
R D on March 20, 2009 at 8:33 PM
Those interview really got to me, emotionally
TheSitRep on March 20, 2009 at 8:33 PM
You are assuming that this applies to Border Patrol. It very well might not, since they are Federal, not state.
BlameAmericaLast on March 20, 2009 at 8:34 PM
DaveS is not only ill-informed…he is ignorant!!
“posed no physical threat”?? According to who?? You?? The drug dealer??
The drug dealer/illegal alien was trying to enter the country with a van full of marijuana. When he was spotted, he tried to flee back across the border to Mexico. While being pursued, the Border Patrol agents testified they saw something shiny in his hand when he turned toward them. They shot him to protect their own lives!!
You really need to get on World Net Daily and educate yourself on this case before coming on here and displaying your sheer and utter ignorance of the case!!
120pages on March 20, 2009 at 8:34 PM
Hey DaveS your snark posting seems an awful lot like getalife’s, which seems like Proud Rino’s, which seems like Capitulus…hmm
Sugarbuzz on March 20, 2009 at 8:34 PM
No, but it seems that DaveS thinks all BP agents do…
Upstater85 on March 20, 2009 at 8:34 PM
I agree, the people charged with enforcing the law should not be held to the same standards as everyone else.
Proud Rino on March 20, 2009 at 8:34 PM
yep
thomasaur on March 20, 2009 at 8:35 PM
There was nothing in her statement that revealed any confusion. Your insinuation (“maybe your husband could use it one day“) implies that her husband has either never come to a conclusion about lying to his government; or concluded to lie, but could be persuaded by your “helpful” advice. For someone who scolds others to “stay on topic”, you sure know how to do just the opposite. If you can’t see how you crossed the line, then it’s your problem.
Weight of Glory on March 20, 2009 at 8:36 PM
If john Sutton hadn’t prosecuted this case as an overblown vendetta while excusing the drug dealer they shot under cloudy circumstances, this wouldn’t have become an uproar.
What Ramos and Compean did was wrong but Sutton and a drug runner got away with worse and that as much as anything made people very angry.
Speakup on March 20, 2009 at 8:36 PM
The two border patrol officers have families,and
I’ve seen the wives interviews,
ya know,these two guys were willing to throw it all away,
give me a break,both officers,and wifes looked upstanding to
me,and they loved their jobs,
at least they did,till they got screwed over!!
canopfor on March 20, 2009 at 8:37 PM
I cried like a girl when I watched those interviews.
That sh1t means something to me, like every time I hear the national anthem or the Marine Corps Hymn.
And, I would be willing to bet you money that you would not call me a girl if you met me.
TheSitRep on March 20, 2009 at 8:39 PM
This tells the whole story about leftists and RINOs in today’s society. The policing immune cells get attacked and the disease organisms get nurtured.
Feedie on March 20, 2009 at 8:40 PM
I figure it this way. They are home with their wives and their children. They can never serve this great nation again in uniform, but they have their families and a slim chance that the Supreme Court will hear their case.
HornetSting on March 20, 2009 at 8:43 PM
How’d you guess? Was it my defense of Limbaugh, whom even the casual reader knows is Allahpundit’s hero?
Shoo, gnat.
Terrie on March 20, 2009 at 8:48 PM
LOL.
DaveS on March 20, 2009 at 8:49 PM
Spoken like a true RINO. Leave.
BlameAmericaLast on March 20, 2009 at 8:49 PM
Hey HornetSting, do Border Agents have to file after action reports if they fire their weapons while in performance of their duties? I am asking because I don’t know and I agree the sentences were way to harsh.
goat on March 20, 2009 at 8:49 PM
Weight of Glory on March 20, 2009 at 8:36 PM
Actually I was responding to her statement: “When your own government believes a drug dealer working for the cartel over a law enforcement officer, you know it is a sick, sad world.”. I thought it was pretty self-evident, but the point was that her husband or any other officer can expect their government to trust them, so long as they don’t lie when reporting incidents.
DaveS on March 20, 2009 at 8:50 PM
HornetSting, nice job keeping your cool with the likes of DaveS spouting his bullshit. I gotta run, but thanks for the job your husband does. And thank you for the facts of the case instead of all the made up crap some of the others brought.
R D on March 20, 2009 at 8:52 PM
Well, Allah, I guess you speak from personal experience. As for me, I too know that Limbaugh makes fast and loose with “facts”.
Again, Beck has some valid points. He had a data expert on the show discussing the Bernanke action yesterday that was informative.
You should make sure of your aim before you fire.
eaglesdontflock on March 20, 2009 at 8:53 PM
Touchy touchy. You’re not going to start sobbing uncontrollably like Glenn Beck, are you?
Proud Rino on March 20, 2009 at 8:54 PM
I believe they do and that’s what was at issue. There were supervisors on scene, though……
HornetSting on March 20, 2009 at 8:54 PM
Agreed
Upstater85 on March 20, 2009 at 8:55 PM
You get used to people always second guessing what they cops did and didn’t do, but I’m sure they are the first to call 911 when they need help.
HornetSting on March 20, 2009 at 8:56 PM
I am on topic.
A superficial wound is not the issue nor what they were convicted for. It was for not following procedure after discharging their weapons…which is a legal,technicality. Which brings me to your seeming high regard for what is legal or not.
How does a law and order guy like yourself feel about the illegal immigration problem being perpetuated by people breaking the law and trying to cover their tracks? Do you think that the illegals..who are criminals trying to cover their tracks by deception, should be prosecuted?
Its really a simple and direct question that seems like it should be of interest to a law and order guy like you…..so I asked.
You’re not trying to cover up the truth are you?
Itchee Dryback on March 20, 2009 at 8:57 PM
“Fleshy tissue?” Okay Hawkeye, give Hotlips a kiss for me too. Then Google “transpelvic bullet trajectory” or “transpelvic gunshot.” You can also have a quick look here.
You can’t separate the injury from the wound.
The Race Card on March 20, 2009 at 8:57 PM
R D, Upstater85, I will pass that on to my husband. The men in green need all the help they can get!
HornetSting on March 20, 2009 at 8:58 PM
If “bullsh-t” == facts (such as the fact that these law enforcement officers fired at a fleeing, unarmed man, then covered it up), then yes, I guess I am spouting them. I can’t claim that they are “my” facts though.
DaveS on March 20, 2009 at 8:59 PM
HornetSting on March 20, 2009 at 8:54 PM
So if they had just filed those reports stating that they had fired at a fleeing suspect that got away and didn’t know if they hit him or not they would have gotten off with a wrist slap. It was the attempted cover up that did them in if I remember McCarthy’s articles correctly.
goat on March 20, 2009 at 9:00 PM
I understand the drug dealer’s urethra was hit, guess he pees out of his mouth now. Sorry, couldn’t resist. Bet he can’t sit on a stool now, though. Sorry again, bad jail humor.
I hope he burns in hell.
HornetSting on March 20, 2009 at 9:00 PM
Internal Affairs on the federal level are just as harrowing as internal affairs on the local level, but yes, the screwed up by not filing a report. But, again, who knows what happened out there. Only Ramos, Compean, and their supervisors truly know what happened. Oh yeah, and God.
HornetSting on March 20, 2009 at 9:02 PM
Like TheSitRep on March 20, 2009 at 8:39 PM said, you wouldn’t say that to my face if you met me. I’m the guy that used to give you wedgies during recess. Go troll somewhere else.
BlameAmericaLast on March 20, 2009 at 9:03 PM
Dave, I will give you this and I hope you understand.
I would rather my husband be judged by twelve then carried by six. This is the decisions an officer deal with in a split second. They messed up.
HornetSting on March 20, 2009 at 9:04 PM
TRC line of defense:
Big black guy, big black gun, big up to God, 911.
The Race Card on March 20, 2009 at 9:06 PM
HornetSting on March 20, 2009 at 9:02 PM
I used to exchange email with a border agent years ago and his complaints about IA were endless, endless paperwork and redtape. Did their supervisors get in any trouble?
goat on March 20, 2009 at 9:07 PM
You are a bad one, race.
HornetSting on March 20, 2009 at 9:07 PM
Great. You were a bully in elementary school, and you’re apparently proud of that. You sound like a great guy.
Proud Rino on March 20, 2009 at 9:07 PM
I don’t think so.
HornetSting on March 20, 2009 at 9:11 PM
Bwahahaha! Dude threatened you with a wedgie in response to you calling him a crybaby. LMBAO! Do you share a conjoined vagina, uterus or both?
The Race Card on March 20, 2009 at 9:12 PM
Naw. I’m just addicted to living.
The Race Card on March 20, 2009 at 9:14 PM
I know this will not be well received…trash me as you will, but, am I the only one who is starting to get a little tired Allahpundit’s free passes?
Reaganliveson on March 20, 2009 at 9:15 PM
So are Ramos and Compean. Get it now, punk?
The Race Card on March 20, 2009 at 9:15 PM
HornetSting on March 20, 2009 at 9:11 PM
This was just a strange case from the get go, anyway I am glad they are out of prison with a chance to clear their names. BTW tell your husband thanks from me too, I have tremendous respect for all our law enforcement folks, tough dangerous work.
goat on March 20, 2009 at 9:16 PM
Wow, I’m not sure anyone gets that one….
R D on March 20, 2009 at 9:22 PM
Thank you, goat. I will pass it on. I kind of wish I hadn’t revealed my hand, so to speak, but it really gets my dander up when people second guess law enforcement. Unless you are there, you don’t know.
As angry as DaveS made me, he has a point. They messed up, but its all the rest, our government taking the side of a Mexican rapist/murderer of a teenage girl in the Medillin case, this case, and all the amnesty bull, PLUS, Nancy Pelosi’s mouth….it just gets to be too much when USBP go out day and night and lay their lives on the line for their country.
HornetSting on March 20, 2009 at 9:26 PM
Lawmakers who wrote and passed the law commented that the law with which they were charged with was not intended to be used against law enforcement, who are required to carry firearms as part of their job. The law was intended to carry harsher penalties against those who knowingly plan and carry out a crime while using a firearm.
Stay on topic.
dominigan on March 20, 2009 at 9:28 PM
This is off topic, but I think I just found getalife…
Upstater85 on March 20, 2009 at 9:29 PM
ALLAHPUNDIT – Just wanted to say thank you for linking this article from Andy McCarthy from NRO. I have been a big fan of his work and have been following and reading his work and analysis of issues related to the war on terror and border security and Islamic terrorism for at least the last 5 years or so. As such, I have grown to have a great deal of respect for his work and his legal opinions. (I even was hoping that McCain would appoint him Attorney General, had he won the election. Alas…)
Anyway, after reading his rundown of the case, (which I had not read before) I have to admit that it brought a lot to my attention that I did not know before and he made a very convincing case as to why it is wrong to make heroes out of these two criminals. He also does a good job laying out how much of this was the fault of Ramos and Compean for not agreeing to the plea deal at the beginning and giving the government no choice but to prosecute. And finally, he did a great job explaining how one could disagree on the lengths of the sentences, but agree that Ramos and Compean were completely in the wrong and deserved punishment.
I have to now admit that I have been wrong about defending these two for so long. I should have done more research on their case to get more details and then I inevitably would have come across Mr. McCarthy’s piece. But, either way, thanks for linking to it and opening my eyes about these two. (This is why I keep coming back to this site, even if I find much of your political analysis and schtick annoying heh).
Michael in MI on March 20, 2009 at 9:30 PM
I always pictured getalife a little more green, with a tail.
HornetSting on March 20, 2009 at 9:30 PM
Arguing with yourself? : )
Itchee Dryback on March 20, 2009 at 9:31 PM
Haha
Upstater85 on March 20, 2009 at 9:31 PM
DITTO!
christene on March 20, 2009 at 9:35 PM
If they shot a US Citizen (even potential drug dealer) I’d say: let them rot. However, since we are talking about an illegal immigrant, I’d say we need a bit more gunshots. Perhaps the drug dealers would decide it isn’t quite worth their life to smuggle drugs into America.
brogers on March 20, 2009 at 9:37 PM
I’d get predators up on the border all day and have Apache gunships on standby to greet anyone making the trip illegally. Load up the 30mm autocannon with 30mm chunks of rubber and the rocket pods with tear gas. I think they’d get the message to stop coming.
brogers on March 20, 2009 at 9:39 PM
DaveS…I noticed you replied with a thought-filled “LOL” to my suggestion about reading World Net Daily so you can actually get some FACTS about this case.
I also noticed you didn’t see fit to respond to any other part of my post such as where did you come up with your “FACT” that the drug dealer “posed no physical threat” to the Border Agents.
OK…I’ll give you another crack at it…how do you know the drug dealer/illegal alien “posed not physical threat”??
For someone who is arguing about this as ardently as you are, this should be very easy to answer…unless, as I suspect, you really know nothing about this case!!
120pages on March 20, 2009 at 9:47 PM
DaveS continues to base his argument on the ‘fact’ that Aldrete-Davila was shot ‘in the back’ while fleeing. However, the trial transcripts do not indicate this to be fact. Under direct examination, the military orthopedic surgeon, Dr.Winston Warme, who first examined the victim, found he had “a bullet in his leg.” It was palpated and found to be a superficial wound and was easy to remove. The problem was that the bullet, on entering Aldrete-Davilas’ body fragmented, and some part of the fragmented bullet injured the urethra. The remainder of the direct and cross examinations attempted to get the surgeon to outline the line of travel the bullet took, but he was not able to state with absolute certainty what angle the bullet entered the victim’s body. During the direct and cross examinations Dr. Warme also referred to the bullet being “in his left buttocks”, “in the thigh” and “in the left hip.” On questioning by the defense attorney followed by the prosecutor, the surgeon could not state with certainty what angle the bullet entered Aldrete-Davila’s body.
Constance on March 20, 2009 at 9:50 PM
120pages, the guy they shot was running away from them. Even THEY know that they did something wrong, as evidenced by the cover-up which–contrary to others who talk about the “split second” decisions made by law enforcement officers–was a very deliberate crime.
You are trying to excuse the inexcusable.
DaveS on March 20, 2009 at 9:51 PM
Constance, I suspect that the agents would have received more favorable adjudication had they not lied about it all.
DaveS on March 20, 2009 at 9:53 PM
HornetSting on March 20, 2009 at 9:26 PM
I hear you, it does get very frustrating.
brogers on March 20, 2009 at 9:39 PM
The Border Patrol already uses drones to patrol crossing zones and has for years.
goat on March 20, 2009 at 10:00 PM
The border should be turned into a free-fire zone for 12 months…
phreshone on March 20, 2009 at 10:02 PM
Hornetsting, add me to the list of people thanking your husband (and you) for your service to our country.
For you trolls insulting police officers, the next time your mommy lets you go out, you’re on your own. Have fun.
warbaby on March 20, 2009 at 10:02 PM
DaveS on March 20, 2009 at 9:53 PM
That has been my point that if they had filed the proper after action reports that they had fired at a fleeing suspect that escaped and didn’t know if he had been hit or not they might have gotten off with just a suspension. It was the cover up that got them in trouble.
goat on March 20, 2009 at 10:06 PM
DaveS on March 20, 2009 at 9:51 PM
I have a feeling not many people have read all the way through Andy McCarthy’s great article/analysis of this case, to which AllahPundit linked in the post. I was as adamant a supporter of these two in the past, until I read Mr McCarthy’s analysis. I have a great deal of respect for him based on his analysis of the prosecution of the war on terror as a law enforcement issue all through the Clinton years, during which he was the lead prosecutor on many terrorist cases, including the Blink Sheikh. I have a feeling most people don’t know who McCarthy is or what his background is. I’ve been following him for a good 4-5 years now, at least, and his analyses are usually spot on. He has been one of the few who has been bold enough to take on the Islamist apologists and hit the Bush Administration HARD on catering to the Islamist groups like CAIR and INRA, etc as well as hitting McCain hard on his ridiculous ‘torture’ legislation. Knowing that background with him, I took to heart his analysis with regards to the Ramos and Compean and came away realizing I had been wrong to defend these two.
It seems that the anti-illegals/Amnesty crowd (of which I am a part) are too quick to want to make Ramos and Compean symbols of our illegal alien problem. Their case has been made into an either/or proposition of: if you defend them, you are anti-illegals, but if you condemn them, you are pro-illegals. But it is not that simple whatsoever. There is also the correct way of being anti-illegals, but also being against Ramos and Compean breaking the law during the course of being on the job.
Hopefully more people will take a step back and realize that it is okay to hold the opinion that Ramos and Compean deserve jail and still be anti-illegal aliens.
Michael in MI on March 20, 2009 at 10:06 PM
Possibly.
Constance on March 20, 2009 at 10:11 PM
Thanks warbaby, I’ll pass it along to my husband.
For all of those practicing Monday Morning Quarterbacking, I don’t believe Andy McCarthy was there that night, unless he is God, which seems to be the consensus from your praise of his words. I hope that when you need law enforcement to come to your aid, I am sure they will not second guess or question the call before saving your sorry asses.
Good night all.
HornetSting on March 20, 2009 at 10:12 PM
Yep, that is what I have gathered from McCarthy’s analysis of the incident as well. They were wrong in everything they did, from not arresting the illegal after he had surrendered, to striking him for no reason to then firing at him and shooting him when he was fleeing. BUT, had they simply admitted that they f***ed up and accepted responsibility for screwing up, this entire ordeal probably could have been avoided. They would have been reprimanded and maybe suspended or fired, but there would not have been any prosecution. But they decided to compound their initial breaking of the law with more criminal behavior and that’s where they passed the point of being able to just have a slap on the wrist.
Michael in MI on March 20, 2009 at 10:12 PM
To say that, you must not know much about the case. The prosecution allowed the perp to lie shamelessly on the stand and withheld from the jury his subsequent drug runs, etc. The guy’s own mother said he had been running drugs for years and always carried a gun.The entire trial was a sham. Johnny Satan was one of W’s old pals which is why W always supported him. Bush chose the Mexican government over our own border agents. I, too lost almost all respect for Bush over this matter.
I hope that eventually Ramos and Compean will be able to actually speak the truth about their trial and treatment.
darwin-t on March 20, 2009 at 10:17 PM
HornetSting on March 20, 2009 at 10:12 PM
Have you read his analysis? What part of it did you find wrong? Which facts are wrong? No one is God. The options here are not “well you weren’t there, so obviously Ramos and Compean were correct” or “McCarthy is God so obviously Ramos and Compean are guilty”.
Michael in MI on March 20, 2009 at 10:17 PM
Michael in MI on March 20, 2009 at 10:12 PM
My opinion was formed by McCarthy’s articles about it too. I empathize with the BP but there was no reason to cover up their actions. I do think the sentences were way to harsh and I am glad they are now free but they are guilty of which they were accused to an extent. I don’t know why the judge threw the book at them other than to make an example of them. They did screw up by not being honest from the start and that’s what did them in.
goat on March 20, 2009 at 10:22 PM
Michael, I concede you that much, but for the rest, I’m with darwin-t and the others. This case reeked with the stench of Bush — pro-illegal to the point of anti-Americanism.
Feedie on March 20, 2009 at 10:24 PM
darwin-t on March 20, 2009 at 10:17 PM
Wouldn’t that be up to the defense attorny to expose? They screwed up when they tried to cover it up not when they shot the perp in the arse. They failed to file after action reports and denied firing their weapons.
goat on March 20, 2009 at 10:29 PM
Feedie on March 20, 2009 at 10:24 PM
Umm, Bush commuted their sentences.
goat on March 20, 2009 at 10:31 PM
From what I took from McCarthy’s analysis, the length of the sentences were based on a Congressional mandate. There was prosecutorial discretion that could have come into play where they could not have charged them with firing their weapon, but with only obstruction of justice and false statements, but they decided to go with the firing of the weapon case, which automatically carried the long sentence. But again, the sentence wasn’t based on the judge, it was passed down by a mandate from Congress. So as soon as they decided to go forward with prosecuting based on the gun charge, they were locked into the long sentence if convicted.
The other thing where it’s difficult to have much sympathy for Ramos and Compean is that they were offered a plea deal and refused it. They refused the plea deal knowing they were guilty. So their longer sentence was really their own fault. So that, combined with the fact that they deliberately lied and covered up their actions, makes me less sympathetic to their case.
The fact is, from how I see it, we have laws that the border agents have to follow. These two did not follow them and then tried to cover up their tracks and lied. Now however sympathetic I am to what they did in shooting a drug smuggler, the fact is that act was against our laws and standards. Even if I agreed with them shooting the guy, I do not agree with them breaking the law in doing so.
The irony in all of this is that the anti-illegal crowd (of which I am a part) is all about shouting that we are a nation of laws and we must enforce our immigration laws. I completely agree with that. But then we can’t turn around and be hypocrites and say that our border patrol can then NOT abide by our laws and start shooting drug smugglers instead of arresting them. AND, on top of that, breaking more laws covering it all up.
I want us to be a nation of laws and to be consistent, I want us to enforce our border laws on all sides. The way I see it, we can’t claim to be on the side of “we are a nation of laws” and defend Ramos and Compean’s breaking of our nation’s laws.
Michael in MI on March 20, 2009 at 10:32 PM
They can’t do anything when the judge says they can’t mention it in court.
darwin-t on March 20, 2009 at 10:39 PM
True. But it came the same way we got Alito instead of Miers.
Feedie on March 20, 2009 at 10:39 PM
I don’t know if what these guys did was wrong or not, but anybody that thinks a drug smuggler was unarmed is completely insane. Of course the guy had a gun. My point in this case is that they deserve the benefit of the doubt when acting in a dynamic, deadly environment just like our soldiers in combat. Sure, mistakes might be made, but if you make it clear that they aren’t able to defend themselves against perceived threats, then the bad guys have won.
pecan pie on March 20, 2009 at 10:39 PM
you know what kind of people refuse plea deals? innocent ones.
pecan pie on March 20, 2009 at 10:41 PM
I’m completely with you there. I have no sympathy whatsoever for how Bush handled our illegal ‘immigration’ problem. And I believe this case was incorrectly used by both sides of the issue. Unfortunately, this case was made into by the anti-illegal ‘immigration’ side “if you support R&C, you are pro-America, if you don’t support R&C you are for Mexico” and this case was made into by the pro-Amnesty side “if you are against R&C, you are patriots, if you support R&C you are anti-immigrant, anti-American and bigoted racists”.
Now, when an issue is made into those kinds of either/or’s, then it’s understandable that many people choose sides accordingly. I did that initially and have pretty much blindly supported Ramos and Compean for the past however many years it’s been for their case, because I have been so pissed off about our border situation and illegal alien situation. I basically reflexively defended them simply to be against Bush’s policies. I did some surface research on the case and felt I knew enough and away I went demonizing anyone who dared not support R&C.
It didn’t help that discussion of this case is usually almost always heated and emotional either. But I put that aside, out of the respect I have for Andy McCarthy and looked at this case with a more open mind and was very surprised to realize that I didn’t know everything. It’s not very often that I find myself under-informed to where I have to admit I was wrong. :)
Michael in MI on March 20, 2009 at 10:41 PM
Michael in MI on March 20, 2009 at 10:32 PM
Sounds like we are pretty much on the same page. I don’t object to them shooting the guy, I object to them not being honest about it and seeking to cover it up. If they had just filed the proper after action reports it would never have gone down like it did.
goat on March 20, 2009 at 10:42 PM
pecan pie on March 20, 2009 at 10:39 PM
All they had to do to avoid the mess was to file an after action report that they fired at a fleeing suspect that escaped not attempt to cover it up and lie about firing their weapons.
goat on March 20, 2009 at 10:47 PM
For all those that think it’s rather ok for Beck to bawl like a weenie on his show every other night, I resent you likening him to crying like a girl. I was a girl, am a woman, and I don’t now (nor have I ever) cry at the drop of an emotion. I love watching Beck – he’s entertaining and he delivers the message with dramatic presentation. But I cringe whenever he starts spilling over. I just want to yell SUCK IT UP Mr and tell the news! Yeesh! No, I’m not coldhearted. Yes, most of my family is military and we’ve lost family in wars from WWII – Iraq. That made me cry. But not reading or watching the news. (Ok, watching the news coverage of 9/11 did make me cry).
jusgottabeme on March 20, 2009 at 10:47 PM
Well, nobody knows everything ;-), but maybe you’ve swung too far back in the other direction. No doubt McCarthy wrote a convincing analysis, but the selection of information is always in question — especially in this day and age. I believe it when jurors say they were snookered by the government at the trial, and I’m really sick of the police being micromanaged and second-guessed at every step. I am awed that there are still men who want a career in law enforcement. They go out there in the dark facing the sewage of society and they deserve more slack.
Feedie on March 20, 2009 at 10:57 PM
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