Liddy is deserving of any blame for not doing something against those bonuses. Asking for them back doesn’t count. Action to claw them back (wherever on the planet) from the recipients does.

sethstorm on March 19, 2009 at 8:20 PM

You obviously have no clue how contracts work. There was absolutly nothing Liddy could have done anyone honest person who has ever signed a legally binding contract knows that. The only way those contracts could have been modified was by AIG entering into a Chapter 13 restructuring.

Totally. Go Galt, Mr. Liddy.

holygoat on March 19, 2009 at 2:48 PM

…and watch as his attempt fails, horribly.

It’s not as if the government can’t extract a dollar from any place on the earth if it wants to.

Liddy is deserving of any blame for not doing something against those bonuses. Asking for them back doesn’t count. Action to claw them back (wherever on the planet) from the recipients does.

ernesto on March 19, 2009 at 2:46 PM

Fair comment and glad you feel the way you do. Thanks for taking the time.

If I were Liddy, I’d tell them where to stick their dollar and go back to retirement.

That’s what I’m talkin’ about. Liddy showed a remarkable amount of restraint. If it had been me sitting there, Fox News would have had to bleep out 3/4 of what I said.

This is going to be a LONG 8 years.

Totally. Go Galt, Mr. Liddy.

holygoat on March 19, 2009 at 2:48 PM

im sure you’re 401k would appreciate the whole investor class going galt. why recommend it only to Liddy?

If I were Liddy, I’d tell them where to stick their dollar and go back to retirement.

“I’m not getting paid enough to put up with this bulls&%t. Mr. Frank, you claim to be the owner – you fix it.”

SouthernRoots on March 19, 2009 at 11:03 AM

Totally. Go Galt, Mr. Liddy.

Maybe I framed my comment and question poorly.
I’ve read “Atlas Shrugged” and I understand the concept. My point here ….

ernesto on March 19, 2009 at 12:13 PM
Did liberal Atlas “shrug” while her military was engaged in combat?
I’ll answer for you. Yep.
Do I care about the economy? Er, yep.
More that the dead guys from my unit? No.
hawkdriver on March 19, 2009 at 12:16 PM

…was that liberal America has already had it’s Atlas moment where they refused to support American. The difference with the war was it wasn’t 401Ks on the line but life and limb. For the country to fail there guaranteed a greater menace abroad that we’d have to defend ourselves against in the future. If you consider the political antics in Congress with war funding, you can very easily argue that Democrats used money as a weapon like it sounds you’re asserting business and Conservatives are doing.
It was a quote from the thread talking about “encouraging atlas to shrug” but what I was asking about was your comment that it was petty vindictiveness. I guess I just can’t separate the irony of people pleading with us to support the administration now for some bucks, in a venture that a lot of people think is Socializing this country after people begged liberal America to get behind their troops.

hawkdriver on March 19, 2009 at 2:21 PM

I see the irony, though i wouldnt necessarily attribute it to the typical liberal feelings on the war. if anything, the liberal equivalent would be the way the UAW played chicken with GM when it was facing bankruptcy.

also, i for one cant defend the position of congressional democrats that precipitous withdrawal was necessary. though i believe our entry into that war was misguided, i was one to insist that now that we’re here, we’d damn sure better win. it was deplorable that boneheads like reid and pelosi decided failure was an option. democrats did try to play chicken over all this. that was petty and vindictive.

that said, you’re pretty much correct. though the analogy is imperfect, in that we had a clear option NOT to go to war with iraq while this financial disaster was the result of a decades of negligence.

ernesto on March 19, 2009 at 12:13 PM
Did liberal Atlas “shrug” while her military was engaged in combat?
I’ll answer for you. Yep.
Do I care about the economy? Er, yep.
More that the dead guys from my unit? No.
hawkdriver on March 19, 2009 at 12:16 PM

…was that liberal America has already had it’s Atlas moment where they refused to support American. The difference with the war was it wasn’t 401Ks on the line but life and limb. For the country to fail there guaranteed a greater menace abroad that we’d have to defend ourselves against in the future. If you consider the political antics in Congress with war funding, you can very easily argue that Democrats used money as a weapon like it sounds you’re asserting business and Conservatives are doing.
It was a quote from the thread talking about “encouraging atlas to shrug” but what I was asking about was your comment that it was petty vindictiveness. I guess I just can’t separate the irony of people pleading with us to support the administration now for some bucks, in a venture that a lot of people think is Socializing this country after people begged liberal America to get behind their troops.

What a spectacle this Congress is.

Maybe I misunderstood, but I gather you think there are people who would prefer for the economy to fail to be “vindictive” and you call that petty. I’m not sure what your comments have even been about the war or the lefts non-support of it, but I gather you lean to the liberal side and have an opinion.

hawkdriver on March 19, 2009 at 1:21 PM

The encouraging atlas to shrug comment came from a line in Ed’s original post…but more broadly is refers to the way people are recommending business take it upon itself to stop functioning in light of Obama’s tax, regulatory, and now fiscal plans. You hear recommendations that people pull out of the Dow because the capital gains rate will go up and better to “show them” than still make money, albeit less. Same with business. you hear people recommend that they simply shut down rather than make less money…not no money mind you.

personally i wouldnt go about things in the same way Obama is at the moment, but i do find rhetoric encouraging an “atlas shrugged” moment over a slight shift in regulatory and tax climates a bit much.

im not making a value judgement about any of that. it just seems that the whole encouraging atlas to shrug does indeed seem like a petty vindictive game being played with our national well being.

ernesto on March 19, 2009 at 12:13 PM

Maybe I misunderstood, but I gather you think there are people who would prefer for the economy to fail to be “vindictive” and you call that petty. I’m not sure what your comments have even been about the war or the lefts non-support of it, but I gather you lean to the liberal side and have an opinion.

From my point of view, the fairly periodic loss of comrades from my unit in Iraq and Afghanistan while Democrats engaged in petty (and quite often vicious) political games stateside, far exceeds what I would personally consider petty vindictiveness. The liberal outrage (not you, you’re admittedly a less impassioned commenter than me, I admit) but outrage in other quarters that we don’t drop to our knees and beg the administration to allow us to support what we think is a slow but steady march to at the very least, a Socialist society for the sake of an economy in recession. I personally see it as another way of losing the war.
I would have loved the liberals to go against their better judgment and try to support the war the same way they’re asking us to support the bailout. Am I misguided?

Similar denigration of unions occurs, albeit from different people…but of course i understand what you’re saying. The balance you refer to, however, is never truly served by either dem or rep administrations. each are too busy with their base and their social agendas to strike balances that involve concessions from both sides. its a shame really.

ernesto on March 19, 2009 at 12:44 PM

The unions are just as bad as Congress. The leaders are more concerned with their own power and compensation than the health and wealth of its members. They have robbed the pension plans, used dues to support political agendas that ultimately harm working people and fattened their own bank accounts, and created burdens are companies that have forced them to move to other countries.

You are correct that there is no balanced representation for either business or labor in Congress. The ideal would be that both sides are represented and compromises reached that are fair to both sides. A pipe dream in this current environment.

The truth though is that while working class people cannot and do not provide their own jobs, business can relocate and still find labor. Both sides need each other, but only one side (labor)is absolutely dependent on the other.

enesto, not that I really care. But I wonder if you make a conscious effort to never respond to comments I make to you.

I assume there is every chance you just don’t see them. I’m sure the context sometimes might be OT and beneath you. This is a bit of a hot button issue for me though and I’m very curious what you think.

My question is, how after so many have died in the war with the left dragged kicking and screaming to support the effort (if they did at all), why should I care about your 401K? Is it because you think the economy really will collapse if we don’t turn to Socialism completely? If I don’t want Socialism, is it okay for me to want the plan to fail? Why should I care?

hawkdriver on March 19, 2009 at 12:46 PM

Well in this instance im lost as to what exactly youre getting at. are you saying that only liberals have 401k’s? beside, who said anything about plans failing or succeeding? all i did was make a point about the rhetoric, that obama basically called out some in business as playing chicken with the economy…much in the same way the auto workers union did during the GM bailout proceedings.

what that has to do with socialism im not quite sure. id love to answer your question if i knew what you were asking.

I assume there is every chance you just don’t see them. I’m sure the context sometimes might be OT and beneath you. This is a bit of a hot button issue for me though and I’m very curious what you think.

My question is, how after so many have died in the war with the left dragged kicking and screaming to support the effort (if they did at all), why should I care about your 401K? Is it because you think the economy really will collapse if we don’t turn to Socialism completely? If I don’t want Socialism, is it okay for me to want the plan to fail? Why should I care?