Republican governor says the darnedest dumbest thing
posted at 3:45 pm on March 19, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
Normally, I’m a fan of Tim Pawlenty. He operates as conservatively as possible in a progressive state, and while that may not satisfy movement conservatives, his cool competence and political infighting skills have kept this state from becoming a midwestern California the past seven years. But every once in a while, he makes a big misstep, and it’s difficult to defend him from well-deserved brickbats.
Like, say, today — as the Boss notes:
The cost of each gallon of gas includes 18.4 cents to fund federal highway programs, and another 25.5 cents for roads in Minnesota.
But as cars and trucks get better mileage, the gas tax isn’t keeping pace with the need for roads and road work. So another option is gaining traction in Minnesota — a high-tech mileage-based user fee.
“We realize that in the future, cars aren’t going to be powered by fuel, probably,” said Gov. Tim Pawlenty, who signed into law $5 million for the current biennium to study the mileage tax.
Pawlenty said the state is now working on a pilot program to try it out, with an eye toward cars that aren’t even on the road yet.
“They’re going to be powered by different things, perhaps including hydrogen fuel cells, potentially plug-in electrics, potentially other sources of energy,” Pawlenty said. “So we need to think about how we’re going to pay for transportation down the road.”
We erupted in anger when Barack Obama’s Transportation Secretary, Ray LaHood, trotted out this idea — and for good reason. At the time, I pointed out the worst problems with this idea:
The mileage tax as a replacement for the gas tax is a bad idea on several levels. First, collection of the gas tax is relatively easy and uncomplicated; it’s levied at the pump and requires no particular compliance for tens of millions of drivers nationwide. It costs the federal government very little to collect and its enforcement is limited to the much lower number of fuel stations, rather than all of the drivers and autos in the US.
LaHood’s suggestion would be an enforcement and logistical nightmare. A mileage tax would require the installation of GPS equipment on every motor vehicle and an enforcement bureaucracy to ensure that drivers didn’t disable it. The cost of the devices would run to the billions just on the initial rollout. The Obama administration would have to spend more millions, if not billions, tracking the mileage on all of these cars.
The privacy implications are the worst aspect of the idea. The government would have a database tracking all of our movements, at least those made in personal vehicles, for their use. At the end of the year, when we had to account for this tax, we would have no practical way of challenging the government data on which we’d be taxed. Can you imagine having to produce a record of every single car trip you took in 2008 for an audit? The tax burden would only come at the end of the year, in a balloon payment.
All of that applies to a state mileage tax as well. It doesn’t take a $5 million study to understand how much of a burden this would be on Minnesotans. Had Governor Pawlenty invited me to the mansion, I could have explained it to him, and I’d have only needed a cup of coffee and a nice, light lunch. I’d have even skipped the lunch.
The state wonders where it will get its revenue if gasoline becomes obsolete. I’d revert the tax to the energy sources, such as the sale of hydrogen fuel cells, hydrogen itself, car batteries, etc, just for the sake of practicality. Better yet, maybe we can look at reductions in government spending instead of finding ways to replace the lost revenue.
A bad idea is a bad idea, no matter who proposes it. Let’s kill this one before it grows.
Blowback
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Ed, I can’t believe I’m saying this…
You might want to consider Wisconsin.
MadisonConservative on March 19, 2009 at 3:48 PM
Tim Pawlenty gave a good speech at CPAC.
RobCon on March 19, 2009 at 3:49 PM
Ed, I can’t believe I’m saying this…
You might want to consider Ilinois.
HAHHAHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAA
WashJeff on March 19, 2009 at 3:50 PM
Pawlenty sucks….I saw this a mile away.
The Wall on March 19, 2009 at 3:50 PM
The lefties are gonna run with this one for a solid week. And by lefties I mean every freakin donk in congress and every freakin liberal rag out there.
Super-duper distraction from the bailout fiasco.
Just watch and see.
fogw on March 19, 2009 at 3:51 PM
That will cost $0.22 for that mile.
WashJeff on March 19, 2009 at 3:52 PM
And many moderates thought McCain should have chosen this clown for his running mate instead of Sarah Palin.
Percy_Peabody on March 19, 2009 at 3:52 PM
TPaw is taking the Mccain route to Presidency now that he knows the MittRomney/Huckabee route is too crowded.
promachus on March 19, 2009 at 3:53 PM
Meanwhile,
Palin set to reject $515,000,000 of the stimulus (almost half of the funds allocated to Alaska
Of course the legislature can go around her ….
joey24007 on March 19, 2009 at 3:53 PM
GPS is coming to every car in the near future. Not only does it allow the government to tax you on distance, because after all, with hybrid cars, and even all-electric cars, gas consumption will dwindle their tax stream, but it also allows the insurance companies to track your driving habits and to charge you accordingly. The GPS units will be embedded into the structure of the car at the manufacturer. If it is disabled, your insurance will be canceled and the authorities notified.
This is the future.
keep the change on March 19, 2009 at 3:54 PM
That’s not even funny.
MadisonConservative on March 19, 2009 at 3:54 PM
America will eventually catch on to this clown. Pawlenty is a more polished version of McCain.
For the record, I’m a Minnesotan…
takeamericabackin10 on March 19, 2009 at 3:55 PM
Although I’m against it… In NC we have annual automobile inepections. They could grab your mileage every year and either send you a bill, or include it with the cost of the inspection… ick… (can’t believe I just said that).
BNCurtis on March 19, 2009 at 3:55 PM
I am not a fan of Pawlenty. He’s another goofy moderate who can be seduced by the Dems with sweet words and flowers.
RadioFreeUSA on March 19, 2009 at 3:55 PM
Nuh Uh. Bad idea.
Blackjack Jim Doyle’s probably saying to himself, “Now why didn’t I think of that first?
Anything you can tax I can tax better…”
VelvetElvis on March 19, 2009 at 3:55 PM
RobCon, totally disagree. He put me to sleep.
howIroll on March 19, 2009 at 3:55 PM
The trick it to fool them. Some bright people will start an underground business of making the devices removable or design a fake system that will make it look like you’ve only driven 100 miles a year.
Don’t under estimate American ingenuity and greed.
SPCOlympics on March 19, 2009 at 3:58 PM
Never liked him… never thought he truly understood conservatism. This reveals some of his statist leanings and his gross misunderstanding of economics.
Let private industry run the road systems. It’s working in Indiana.
mankai on March 19, 2009 at 3:58 PM
And also with mandatory GPS tracking, if you get from point A to point B in 30 minutes but if it would have taken 45 minutes if you went the speed limit expect a ticket in the mail for speeding.
If you are hurting that much then either put tolls on the roads or raise the gas taxes, at least then it would make sense.
cadams on March 19, 2009 at 3:58 PM
*sigh*
Does anyone just want to be a Republican anymore?
Jindal looks better all the time.
bcm4134 on March 19, 2009 at 3:58 PM
Sorry, I think it’s a good idea.
The biggest problem on our roads is congestion and lost productivity/quality of life due to sitting in traffic.
People should pay more for driving at peak hours.
Pawlenty’s idead will pay for itself because it will diminish traffic by creating an incentive to drive at off peak times or to carpool, etc.
This notion that we need to build more and more roads because of the demand is untenable over the long run. Eventually, space for more roads will run out and it takes a decade to build them anyway.
Better to work on the demand side and to make people pay more for using a scarce resource during peak times, just like you have to pay for any other scare resource you use at peak times.
A gas tax hits drivers the same, whether they drive at midnight or at rush hour and does nothing to decrease the demand which results in congestion.
NoDonkey on March 19, 2009 at 3:59 PM
Well we have 10% sales tax, 50% increase to income tax coming, $2300 per $100K of house property taxes, and our new Governor wants to build that third airport just south of my house for a few billion dollars. This is of course what you do when you have a $9B deficit per the Obama economic guidelines.
OK…this is not funny.
WashJeff on March 19, 2009 at 3:59 PM
They sure did.
mankai on March 19, 2009 at 3:59 PM
If a car has larger tires, the effect on the road is much greater, plus the heavier the car the worse it is.
Certain compounds in tires, some are softer for wet pavement adhesion, others are harder for longer wear, but less traction. The harder tires wear out the roads quicker, need an additional tax on them…with GPS we could determine the exact area that someone needs to be taxed for.
Around schools, much more traffic, so people with school kids, get taxed heavier…yeah, it all is beginning to make sense.
And seeing as the IRS is the agency that is “guilty until proven innocent”, what could possible go wrong?
right2bright on March 19, 2009 at 3:59 PM
You can control the economy and people by taxing…your post is an excellent example of that…comrade…
right2bright on March 19, 2009 at 4:01 PM
Okay well he’s out. He’s not a bad candidate but with this suggestion he’s probably just shot himself in the foot for any national office…
John_Locke on March 19, 2009 at 4:01 PM
Still busy trying to steal my neighbors Comcast.
portlandon on March 19, 2009 at 4:02 PM
Well that’s the final nail in the coffin for this guy’s Presidential aspirations. Not like he had a prayer anyway.
Doughboy on March 19, 2009 at 4:02 PM
Like horses? You can always collect a poop tax.
I think we should also tax the air with breathe. An extra rate for people who hiccup or burp too. You don’t even want to get me started on a fart tax.
I think I’m going insane.
moonsbreath on March 19, 2009 at 4:03 PM
Madison I freely confess that the UW Badger mascot is the most awesome mascot in the realm: Normal sized-body with giant Badger head. Plus the dude is always starting trouble, which is what mascots do, right?
Mike D. on March 19, 2009 at 4:03 PM
He also supports cap & trade, believes man is the cause of global warming, and recently announced a massive “green jobs” initiative. He’s a pro-life liberal.
takeamericabackin10 on March 19, 2009 at 4:04 PM
What about people who live far away from where they work in order to have more affordable housing? If a gas mileage tax ever passed here in Houston(which it won’t because Texans don’t tolerate this kind of crap), it would cripple our economy.
Doughboy on March 19, 2009 at 4:04 PM
Jeez; he’s just doing a study.
Quit pulling so hard on your own panties, eh?
Shivas Irons on March 19, 2009 at 4:05 PM
Let’s face it: no matter who is in office, government sucks. Best to keep it to a minimum.
beatcanvas on March 19, 2009 at 4:05 PM
Paw gave Minnesota conceal/carry, so for that I’m grateful, but this is just stupid.
I need a place to go, I thought about Texas but I can’t deal with spiders which are large enough to drag you out of your own home. Any other ideas?
Bishop on March 19, 2009 at 4:06 PM
I’m more concerned about forced ritalin on schoolchildren(and heavy penalties for their parents if they interfere), a major city with a higher level of violence than any city in Iraq, and currently the most unconstitutional gun laws in the country.
MadisonConservative on March 19, 2009 at 4:06 PM
Peter Principle says the Governor has reached his level. Good to know sooner than later.
rsl775 on March 19, 2009 at 4:07 PM
Still busy trying to steal my neighbors Comcast.
portlandon on March 19, 2009 at 4:02 PM
Easier than you think; most of the equipment comes out of Canada. If you have basic electronics skills, it’s fairly easily accomplished.
Bishop on March 19, 2009 at 4:08 PM
I haven’t seen any spiders like that here in H-Town. The occasional giant cockroach, but those will be in any state you migrate to.
Doughboy on March 19, 2009 at 4:08 PM
Is moonbat in the water up there in Minnesota? I was not aware that moonbat was contagious….
HornetSting on March 19, 2009 at 4:08 PM
Amen to that.
Does anybody with an ounce of common sense think this would replace the gas tax? Heck no, it will be in ADDITION to the gas tax.
Anybody want to place a bet that roads and bridge conditions would actual improve? ROFLMAO!
They all suck. They are almost all crooks. That’s why they went into this business. You think they’re in it for us? There in it for them and their “friends.” All of them. The honest ones are killed in the bud.
TheBigOldDog on March 19, 2009 at 4:09 PM
Nah, spiders are small. It’s the mosquitoes that will drag you out of your house and beat you to death.
Also, watch out for the snakes. They’re deadly.
-Former Texas Girl…can’t wait to get back home….:)
HornetSting on March 19, 2009 at 4:09 PM
As an Illini alum I heard that Badger mascot is always starting trouble because he is bitter at being UW’s second choice. UW’s Original Mascot Choice.
WashJeff on March 19, 2009 at 4:10 PM
I haven’t seen a spider down here in San Antone and I’ve been here two plus months.
Although maybe the pop up in the summer. It’s been dry as a bone here and all I’ve seen are buzzards.
NoDonkey on March 19, 2009 at 4:10 PM
If you need a certain amount of money to maintain the highways and you tax fuel at a certain rate, if there is a change in the vehicles that causes them to consume less fuel for a given amount of usage of the highways then you just increase the tax rate on the fuel to compensate. Simple.
You should also charge road tax on electricity used to charge electric vehicles. They use the road too.
crosspatch on March 19, 2009 at 4:11 PM
Yeah, those gun laws work like a champ. I keep my visit’s to our business’s Chicago southside locations to daylight hours.
WashJeff on March 19, 2009 at 4:12 PM
Just heard on Hannity”
TURBO TAX TIMMY JUST ADMITTED DODD IS CORRECT IT WAS HIM WHO ASKED TO PUT THE DODD AMMENDMENT IN!!!!
ordi on March 19, 2009 at 4:13 PM
so … guess I need to keep my GPS-less:
77 MGB (32k original, one owner miles)
92 Saturn (44k original, one owner miles)
08 Pacifica (16k original, one owner miles
none with built in GPS, all great vehicles.
Onager on March 19, 2009 at 4:13 PM
Could they put up those cool steel mesh’s above the road like the bumber cars? That would be awesome!!!
WashJeff on March 19, 2009 at 4:14 PM
That’s just silly.
If you use electricity at peak times you get charged more.
Why should roads be any different?
I’d rather pay more and have to sit in traffic less.
This idea that everyone should be able to get in their car and drive around for any reason at any time and not have to pay more to do it during peak use hours, is ridiculous.
It has nothing to do with the free market or conservatism, it’s more akin to la-la land liberalism where they believe “whatever floats your boat” and everyone has a right to anything they want anytime they want it.
NoDonkey on March 19, 2009 at 4:14 PM
Bishop on March 19, 2009 at 4:06 PM
The spiders aren’t that bad. You gotta watch out for snakes a little though.
theotherKate on March 19, 2009 at 4:15 PM
Make sure you eat at Pappasitos, excellent fajitas! I’m jealous!
HornetSting on March 19, 2009 at 4:15 PM
The lamb in now on the altar
Onager on March 19, 2009 at 4:15 PM
What a terrible idea.
CP on March 19, 2009 at 4:15 PM
Rrrummmm, rrrrrummmm. I think the bus is getting hungry!
SPCOlympics on March 19, 2009 at 4:16 PM
Although I’m against it… In NC we have annual automobile inepections. They could grab your mileage every year and either send you a bill, or include it with the cost of the inspection… ick… (can’t believe I just said that).
BNCurtis on March 19, 2009 at 3:55 PM
———-
Parts of Illinois have an “emissions check”, make sure the cars aren’t polluting too much. They do grab the mileage, so it’d make sense to bill for it at the same time.
This makes too much sense, though.
It still has a couple problems. What happens to miles driven in another state, for example? What about miles driven on private roads? A farm truck, for example, can log thousands of miles, years of work, and never leave the farm…
The real problem, though, is that a GPS-based high-bureaucracy system offers both new members for the gov’t union, and a way to charge more money for certain locations. For example, charging $0.01 per mile for most of Illinois, but $0.05 for downtown Chicago…
Mew
acat on March 19, 2009 at 4:16 PM
I am sure to get flamed but actually the concept of paying for roads by your mileage is a conservative market oriented solution to the problem funding roads and reducing congestion. The economist William Vickery wrote about these market solutions in the 1960s. The problem is that as cars get more fuel efficient the tax take comes falls below the level needed to keep up the infrastructure. We have to come up with a way of replacing the lost revenue or the roads will fall into disrepair.
I don’t have an issue taxing miles driven to substitute for a straight tax on fuel. The real issue with GPS tracking is the ability to trace your movements. You could fix that problem with a GPS driven odometer that would only record mileage and not location. However, as suggested above, they could get the mileage for the tax during annual inspections. I would support this method of transportation taxation if all other fuel taxes were repealed. This has to be a substitute not a supplement before I could support it.
jerryofva on March 19, 2009 at 4:16 PM
Like it or not, everyone who knows how technology is progressing knows a mileage tax is the way of the future.
Ed, you and two Republican neighbors each own a pickup truck. The 5 teenage Dems on the other side of the street were each given electric vehicles by their parents.
In this present-day community, guess what: you and your neighbors pay all the road taxes for the 5 teenage Dems. And it will only get worse as the shift away from petroleum fuels intensifies. Perhaps Pawlenty understands this better than most.
dtestard on March 19, 2009 at 4:17 PM
The lamb in now on the altar
Onager on March 19, 2009 at 4:15 PM
——-
That’s no lamb. That’s a goat.
acat on March 19, 2009 at 4:18 PM
NoDonkey on March 19, 2009 at 4:14 PM
I don’t get charged more for electricity at peak times, and if I did, it would still be a private company charging me, not the government. Personal liberty does mean that I can get in my car and drive anywhere I want at anytime without the government taxing me more because I don’t work the 3am shift. I already pay for the roads with the taxes I pay. This is not freakin’ Russia.
theotherKate on March 19, 2009 at 4:18 PM
I have to try that, because time has been scarce we’ve made too many trips to Taco Cabana which I know isn’t in Pappasito’s league.
NoDonkey on March 19, 2009 at 4:18 PM
Like it or not, everyone who knows how technology is progressing knows a mileage tax is the way of the future.
Ed, you and two Republican neighbors each own a pickup truck. The 5 teenage Dems on the other side of the street were each given electric vehicles by their parents.
In this present-day community, guess what: you and your neighbors pay all the road taxes for the 5 teenage Dems. And it will only get worse as the shift away from petroleum fuels intensifies. Perhaps Pawlenty understands this better than most.
dtestard on March 19, 2009 at 4:17 PM
——-
Which does NOT argue that they need to know, or have any right, constitutionally or otherwise, about where I choose to wander.
Mew
acat on March 19, 2009 at 4:19 PM
I’m a fellow Minnesotan, but if and when I can sell my house, I’m going to South Dakota. No state income taxes.
cjs1943 on March 19, 2009 at 4:21 PM
No it’s not, it’s government mandated tracking for an additional tax. Market-oriented would actually be the market dictating, ie privately-built roads with a per-mile toll or something.
theotherKate on March 19, 2009 at 4:21 PM
You’re in Virginia? Northern Virginia.
One of the biggest reasons I moved out of that hell hole was traffic.
If you’re not going to charge at peak times in order to get all of the tourists and other people driving aimlessly around, then what really is the “market based” point (and thanks for making the case that this is a conservative idea).
You can sit in traffic in NoVA for two hours and go 10 miles. Personally, I’d be willing to pay $20 to save 30 minutes because my time is worth that.
Instead, we have this silly notion that we shouldn’t have to pay a dime more to drive during peak hours and then we sit in traffic with all the idiots who don’t need to be on the road during rush hour. Brilliant.
NoDonkey on March 19, 2009 at 4:22 PM
Yep. Can you imagine how many of these the state could crank out in a day? For public safety purposes only, of course.
Bruce in NH on March 19, 2009 at 4:22 PM
Well, I love TC too! Don’t miss a little taco joint called Rolando’s Super Taco on the corner of Hildebrand and Blanco Roads. It’s on the NW side of town. It doesn’t look like much, but they have Monster Tacos that are awesome…but be prepared to wait on weekends. Worth the wait!
HornetSting on March 19, 2009 at 4:22 PM
It’s a mileage tax that he’s proposing. Is my drive shorter when it’s faster? How does a tax on miles driven induce people to drive the SAME DISTANCE at non-peak times versus peak? I believe it’s 30 miles to my office at 10 am and 8am.
Now a toll both with a higher rate from 7-9 and 4-6 would do that, but a mileage tax wouldn’t. The toll booth isn’t going to report every single place I go in a database to tax me later.
Both options, mileage tax and toll booths, encourage carpooling, but I’ll take the one that’s not an invasion of privacy too, especially if they want to single me out for my bonus and take down my name . . .
PastorJon on March 19, 2009 at 4:25 PM
NoDonkey on March 19, 2009 at 4:22 PM
That’s freedom for you, it’s messy and inconvenient. Are you really saying that people should lose more of their freedom because you are pissed off because you have to sit in traffic?
theotherKate on March 19, 2009 at 4:25 PM
This idea was floated by Deval Patrick (Axelrod’s Obama protype) and even the Liberals went ballistic. I’m sure there are plent of articles in the Boston Globe and Boston Herald that talk about what happened when Coupe Deval floated this turd.
TheBigOldDog on March 19, 2009 at 4:26 PM
I don’t see any GPS implications for a once a year tax. The first year you get your mileage certified at inspection for your registration, the next year you get your mileage certified at registration, subtract year one from year two, you have your miles travelled, then pay the tax on the mileage in order to re-register your car. Of course there are too many taxes for roads etc, but that’s another issue entirely.
eaglewingz08 on March 19, 2009 at 4:27 PM
Correct. All they need to do is hook up a Bluetooth or Zigbee transceiver to your odometer and read it during inspection or when you enter an Interstate or some other chosen check point, and mail you the bill.
dtestard on March 19, 2009 at 4:27 PM
If you don’t like it, why don’t you change YOUR life so that you can avoid rush hour traffic?
Charging more for driving at peaks hours isn’t going to change driving habits enough to appreciably reduce the congestion. We know because numerous cities have created car pool lanes to encourage people to car pool. Most people don’t (or rather can’t) and so you have fewer available lanes with MORE congestion.
SPCOlympics on March 19, 2009 at 4:29 PM
Please no moderates in 2012…. And that includes TPaw
Norwegian on March 19, 2009 at 4:29 PM
Sit in traffic for two hours and go five miles and then tell me that you’re “free”.
I can walk places quicker in the DC area than drive, because of all of the “freedom” I have.
The government has more information on me than I can possibly imagine or that they could possibly process. Knowing when I go make a beer run is not going to be the tipping point.
Virginia is thinking about allowing private companies to build roads and charge tolls to use them. I’ll be happy to use them and to pay for the right to breeze by all of the people enjoying their “freedom” waste their lives sitting in traffic.
NoDonkey on March 19, 2009 at 4:31 PM
That punishes those drivers with older cars. Before the hybrids, over the average, cars had fairly similar mpg ratings. So the tax on a gallon of gas roughly hit everyone the same. With hybrids, and non-gas/diesel powered vehicles on the road, they get taxed less for using the same commodity.
Something needs to change in the whole highway maintenance structure. The ‘good’ thing about the gas tax is that it is levied continuously throughout the year. If say, hybrid batteries or hydrogen fuel cells had a tax added to them that would replace the gas tax, it would be at least $125 * # years they are rated to last in federal taxes, and double that in most state taxes (12k miles a year, avg 18mpg, 18.4c gas tax). So if a fuel cell lasts 10 years, that’s an extra $1250 per fuel cell in federal taxes alone, and in my home state of NC, it would be around $325 per functional year in state taxes. In that 10 year span that’s $5k added to the cost of the fuel cell (and open a market for regulation of having to buy them in the state in which you live). As well as anytime the tax increases you’d get another prorated (hopefully) bill.
Tolls are another option, but that only covers major highways, something still needs to be collected for minor roads.
I have yet to hear a fully plausible replacement for the gas tax system, since the roads need to be maintained and the state/feds currently have that responsibility.
kerncon on March 19, 2009 at 4:32 PM
I did just that. I left the DC area. So that’s one less car. But not everyone can do that.
If you’d rather sit in traffic half of your life than pay a few extra bucks in tolls, have at it. It’s your life.
I have better things to do than look at bumpers. Pawlenty’s idea at least has a chance at working.
The status quo is not working and it’s wasting millions of hours of productive time and hurting our quality of life.
NoDonkey on March 19, 2009 at 4:34 PM
I don’t get it.
Vehicles which are more fuel efficient are smaller and lighter. Smaller and lighter vehicles don’t create anywhere near the wear and tear on roads that the heavier ones do. Thus, smaller, lighter, and more fuel efficient vehicles should mean less road maintenance.
Oh, yeah, I’m forgetting that about 70% of the wear and tear on the highways is caused by trucks. And us poor nitwits in the cars are supposed to pick up the slack for the difference between the percentage they pay and the proportion of deterioration that they create.
I’m not adverse to a mileage tax, if they can find a way of doing it that doesn’t involve a GPS to track my movements. But I do think that it ought to be based on the amount of wear that your particular vehicle is causing to the roads. A Ford Fiesta shouldn’t pay the same as a Chevy Suburban.
jefferson101 on March 19, 2009 at 4:36 PM
I drive right by there on the way home (and I don’t have to sit in traffic because this is Texas, where they build nice, big wide roads without a bunch of horrible Maryland/DC drivers clogging them up). I’ll look for it thanks.
NoDonkey on March 19, 2009 at 4:37 PM
And that’s a free market solution I can understand. The government tracking my every move to tax me more, not so much.
I frequently sit in hours of pointless traffic a week. You know what I do? I suck it up and plan for it.
theotherKate on March 19, 2009 at 4:37 PM
Pawlenty better hope he’s picking up a lot of Democrat votes like his buddy John McCain did… Oh, wait, the Democrats didn’t cross over and vote for the “moderate” John McCain.
Pawlenty has lost my vote and I’d guess that I’m not alone.
His support of radical watermelon environmentalism and this unneeded and intrusive government reach into our lives is too much.
Good-bye Tim.
RJL on March 19, 2009 at 4:38 PM
Not a fan of Pawlenty and this seals the deal for me. Remember, he was one of the first governors to back Sen. John “F— You” McCain in 2008. He wanted to be the VP. That worked out well for him. Pawlenty believes in Globaloney Warming. That is part of the problem. He believes in something totally unprovable. And is suggesting a “solution” that only makes a “problem” that is unproven worse. PALIN, ’12!
righty64 on March 19, 2009 at 4:39 PM
(snip)
The government has more information on me than I can possibly imagine or that they could possibly process. Knowing when I go make a beer run is not going to be the tipping point.
(snip)
NoDonkey on March 19, 2009 at 4:31 PM
——–
NoDonkey,
Illinois has these nifty transponders that save people 50% on tolls. They don’t record anything other than “this transponder was at this toll booth”. No automated speeding tickets, no “rush hour surcharge”, although I’m sure Gov. Blago and his successor are looking at it.
The data from these transponders has already been suppoenaed in court cases. “your honor, the defendants’ transponder was at toll booths X and Y at these times…”…
Yes, your beer run is none of their business, but why give ‘em more handles on us?
Mew
acat on March 19, 2009 at 4:40 PM
It has a CHANCE of working. Not that it will work but more like we HOPE it will work.
And once it’s implemented, and is shown to be expensive and not effective, what do you think is the CHANCE it will be rescinded and the tax payers will be refunded for this boondoggle?
SPCOlympics on March 19, 2009 at 4:40 PM
Not me, I bolted once I knew I had to move out of my very conveniently located condo in Arlington.
I’m not wasting my life sitting in traffic. Too short for that. Would cut into my exercise and then drinking time.
NoDonkey on March 19, 2009 at 4:40 PM
I thought the picture was recent, and my first thought was: wow, Johny, that’s a major understatement.
radiofreevillage on March 19, 2009 at 4:41 PM
NoDonkey on March 19, 2009 at 4:40 PM
Your choice. It’s all about choice in the end. That’s why I’m opposed to the government electronically tracking me.
theotherKate on March 19, 2009 at 4:42 PM
Tolls are another option, but that only covers major highways, something still needs to be collected for minor roads.
kerncon on March 19, 2009 at 4:32 PM
——-
don’t forget licenses and registrations …..
acat on March 19, 2009 at 4:43 PM
Y’know, this might not be the best solution, but at least this is a stab at it.
The status quo sucks. This is a major quality of life issue and it’s frustrating because it is solvable.
Instead of a “can do” society, we’ve become a “can’t do”.
What isn’t working is what’s going on right now and traffic is getting worse. I lived in DC for 10 years and saw it get worse in worse. What will it be like in another 10 years?
They can’t even synchronize lights for god’s sake.
And I really think one of the best things government could do to alleviate traffic is to require that people actually have driving skills in order to get a license. The states seem to hand out licenses to anyone who can fog a mirror and pay the processing fee.
NoDonkey on March 19, 2009 at 4:45 PM
Oregon is fighting the same mileage tax issue. I’m going to use this argument every chance I get. I’ll remember to credit you Ed.
ammon_of_cs on March 19, 2009 at 4:48 PM
I’ve been with the military for 20 years and I don’t care what more they know about me, so I’m comfortable with it, but I can see where it could cause some problems for people not so used to it.
But then I hate driving so as far as I’m concerned, they can put a GPS chip in my forehead as long as I save 15 minutes in traffic per day.
I’m still waiting for those flying cars they promised us.
NoDonkey on March 19, 2009 at 4:48 PM
True, but, decades from now, when all cars have GPS anyway, this kind of thing would make it possible to privatize the entire road system with no tole booths.
Count to 10 on March 19, 2009 at 4:49 PM
You are bastardizing the original meaning of American “can do”. “Can do” means if something is wrong, you fix it yourself. Not that you wait for the government to do it for you.
SPCOlympics on March 19, 2009 at 4:51 PM
Doesn’t sound half bad, really.
Count to 10 on March 19, 2009 at 4:51 PM
No, they hand them out in crackerjack boxes.
Kid says, ‘Look ma, I got a state driver’s license!’
Advertiser says: ‘Collect all 57!’
ammon_of_cs on March 19, 2009 at 4:52 PM
And he wouldn’t have alienated those precious moderates and independents the way that Caribou Barbie did!!! LOL Right. Or better yet, we could’ve had Lieberman.
ddrintn on March 19, 2009 at 4:54 PM
Even the usually intelligent John Hinderaker of Powerline blog was pushing Pawlentey (as he pushed McCain in the primaries). Yeah that Pawlentey would have been a real inspired choice for V.P. /not
Hilts on March 19, 2009 at 4:55 PM
Super, I’ll run out back and start building my own road.
“Can do” means that we found solutions, instead of reflexively shooting down every idea.
The guvmint owns the roads, so this isn’t an instance of every cowboy riding off into the sunset on his own trail. Those days are over.
Anyone who has sat in traffic for hours on end has had to think “there must be a better way”. I don’t think politicians should be stomped on when they propose anything that might work, even if we disagree with them.
NoDonkey on March 19, 2009 at 4:58 PM
Count to 10 on March 19, 2009 at 4:49 PM
Yeah, the Saudis or the Russians could start buying the roads. What could go wrong?
theotherKate on March 19, 2009 at 4:58 PM
Why would it matter who owns the roads? If they abuse it somehow, it gets confiscated and sold off to someone else.
I guess this is where the capitalists part ways with the paranoid.
Count to 10 on March 19, 2009 at 5:04 PM
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