American Legion commander “angered” after meeting Obama

posted at 7:00 pm on March 16, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

Apparently, the Obama administration hasn’t backed away from its plans to start offloading costs for wounded veterans to third-party insurance, which will make acquiring such insurance nearly impossible.  The commander of the American Legion emerged from a meeting with President Obama “angered” at Obama’s insistence on generating revenue from those who sacrificed for American security:

The leader of the nation’s largest veterans organization says he is “deeply disappointed and concerned” after a meeting with President Obama today to discuss a proposal to force private insurance companies to pay for the treatment of military veterans who have suffered service-connected disabilities and injuries. The Obama administration recently revealed a plan to require private insurance carriers to reimburse the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) in such cases.

“It became apparent during our discussion today that the President intends to move forward with this unreasonable plan,” said Commander David K. Rehbein of The American Legion. “He says he is looking to generate $540-million by this method, but refused to hear arguments about the moral and government-avowed obligations that would be compromised by it.”

The Commander, clearly angered as he emerged from the session said, “This reimbursement plan would be inconsistent with the mandate ‘ to care for him who shall have borne the battle’ given that the United States government sent members of the armed forces into harm’s way, and not private insurance companies. I say again that The American Legion does not and will not support any plan that seeks to bill a veteran for treatment of a service connected disability at the very agency that was created to treat the unique need of America’s veterans!”

Commander Rehbein was among a group of senior officials from veterans service organizations joining the President, White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emmanuel, Secretary of Veterans Affairs Eric Shinseki and Steven Kosiak, the overseer of defense spending at the Office of Management and Budget (OMB). The group’s early afternoon conversation at The White House was precipitated by a letter of protest presented to the President earlier this month. The letter, co-signed by Commander Rehbein and the heads of ten colleague organizations, read, in part, ” There is simply no logical explanation for billing a veteran’s personal insurance for care that the VA has a responsibility to provide. While we understand the fiscal difficulties this country faces right now, placing the burden of those fiscal problems on the men and women who have already sacrificed a great deal for this country is unconscionable.”

The Obama administration explains that it wants private insurers who sell coverage to vets to pay their fair share, but there are two things wrong with that argument.  First, the United States has a moral obligation to provide treatment for those wounded in the service of their country. That’s a commitment we make to the people who enlist in military, and should not get outsourced.

Second, vets with service-related injuries and illnesses can only get third-party insurance because insurers know the US will cover all service-related medical treatment through the VA.  If the government reneges on that commitment, it will put insurers on the hook for veterans already enrolled — but it will make it a lot harder for the next set of veterans to get insured.  It will also raise costs to the rest of the insured by those companies, when the burden should fall on all Americans equally.

If the country needs more revenue streams, it should find some other way to find them than the backs of our wounded veterans.  They’ve sacrificed enough.  Shame on the Obama administration for attempting to weasel out of our commitment.

Update: This Ain’t Hell wonders when General Eric Shinseki will resign in protest.

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The Worst President Ever developing before our eyes…

I’ve got 2nd Amendment Fever…

rcl on March 16, 2009 at 8:27 PM

I do not know what the game on this one is but after 60 days of the messiah, I am fing sick of these games.
There is a total mental case in the WH with the maturity of a 15 year old.
Oh, ha, I forgot tomorrow is St. Pat’s Day. No wonder there’s no WH party on Wednesday this week, it’s on Tuesday.
Silly me.

ORconservative on March 16, 2009 at 8:28 PM

The only thing that I want to see happen to the ONE is that we find out his true nationality and kick his sorry butt to the curb. Be nice if Reid and Pelosi were foreigners too!

libertylady on March 16, 2009 at 8:28 PM

Obama has to save the government health care for Al Qaeda.

Erich66 on March 16, 2009 at 8:28 PM

That’s it! July 4, in Washington! Let’s march! Mother F*cker deserves it! This is THE MOST OUTRAGEOUS thing I have ever heard of, for all the previous stated reasons!

July 4. I’m there. Let’s do it!

JAM on March 16, 2009 at 8:29 PM

The Worst President Ever developing before our eyes…

I’ve got 2nd Amendment Fever…

rcl on March 16, 2009 at 8:27 PM

What are you implying?

Proud Rino on March 16, 2009 at 8:30 PM

Ok…I’ve hear everyone be mad…but why won’t his plan work

tomas on March 16, 2009 at 7:42 PM

If you look at most of your insurance policies you will find an ‘act of war’ clause. This allows the insurance companies to not have to pay if the loss is due to an act of war.

Doesn’t it follow that this clause will be applied to any policy written for someone who is a future service menber?

Uniblogger on March 16, 2009 at 8:30 PM

Hey, I said it before Levin, right here at hotair a few days ago.

I wonder if Levin reads comments, or if it’s just so obvious we both came to the same conclusion?

It seems an odd proposal though. Really, wouldn’t it make people want to keep the private health care industry if the government can’t pay for veterans’ care without tapping the private system for money?

funky chicken on March 16, 2009 at 8:30 PM

Proud Rino on March 16, 2009 at 8:30 PM

Don’t you have a rock to crawl under, somewhere?

progressoverpeace on March 16, 2009 at 8:31 PM

June 13, Victory in Iraq rally and march, D.C. Gathering of Eagles.

Tom

marinetbryant on March 16, 2009 at 8:32 PM

inominatus on March 16, 2009 at 8:22 PM

Likely you’re right. I’m just one more PISSED vet who served with pride. Hard to deal with this shit, though.

irongrampa on March 16, 2009 at 8:33 PM

placing the burden of those fiscal problems on the men and women who have already sacrificed a great deal for this country is unconscionable.”

“What do you think the Devil is going to look like if he’s around? Nobody is going to be taken in if he has a long, red, pointy tail. No. I’m semi-serious here. He will look attractive and he will be nice and helpful and he will get a job where he influences a great God-fearing nation and he will never do an evil thing… he will just bit by little bit lower standards where they are important.”

Michelle Dubois on March 16, 2009 at 8:33 PM

What are you implying?

Proud Rino on March 16, 2009 at 8:30 PM

What do you think the second amendment is intended for?

MadisonConservative on March 16, 2009 at 8:33 PM

What are you implying?

Proud Rino on March 16, 2009 at 8:30 PM

Man, oh man, you are dense…even for a Obamatroll.

Boo!

Not Over.

1GooDDaDDy on March 16, 2009 at 8:34 PM

progressoverpeace on March 16, 2009 at 8:23 PM

Naw, have to disagree, the example posted was pretty caustic. I like to believe that if things keep going the way they appear to be going…a brand new authentic outrage every day, even the most brain dead Obama/Libtard supporter is going to wake up and say ‘Wait…What??’

BigWyo on March 16, 2009 at 8:35 PM

MadisonConservative on March 16, 2009 at 8:33 PM

The Second Amendment preserves the right to bear arms, for the purpose of a well-regulated militia.

I am wondering why someone would mention having “Second Amendment Fever” after declaring Obama the Worst President ever, and I would like him to expound upon that thought.

Proud Rino on March 16, 2009 at 8:36 PM

Not surprising from the anti-military Democratic Party. Eeesh! And yet, didn’t the Kerry campaign in ’04 criticize Bush for cutting funds to the VA? Yeah, they’re pro-military when there’s an election, anti-military the rest of the time.

As for the immorality of this action–why should this surprise anyone? Isn’t it also immoral to rack up a debt for younger generations to pay when they cannot even vote yet?

Are gross incompetence and immorality impeachable offenses?

Special K on March 16, 2009 at 8:37 PM

What do you think the second amendment is intended for?

MadisonConservative on March 16, 2009 at 8:33 PM

I am wondering why someone would mention having “Second Amendment Fever” after declaring Obama the Worst President ever, and I would like him to expound upon that thought.

Proud Rino on March 16, 2009 at 8:36 PM

Hey Maddy…he’s all yours ma brotha’

Not Over.

1GooDDaDDy on March 16, 2009 at 8:38 PM

I am wondering why someone would mention having “Second Amendment Fever” after declaring Obama the Worst President ever, and I would like him to expound upon that thought.

Proud Rino on March 16, 2009 at 8:36 PM

How about you simply ask him if he means what you’re thinking?

I might add, you quoted the second amendment without a bit of application. Its purpose is to preserve the right of the people to bear arms in order that the government can be kept in check in case it becomes tyrannical. As it stands, Obama is currently moving towards socialism. Socialist states in history have nearly always led to tyranny.

So what are YOU thinking, and projecting onto others, hmmm?

MadisonConservative on March 16, 2009 at 8:39 PM

“What do you think the Devil is going to look like if he’s around? Nobody is going to be taken in if he has a long, red, pointy tail. No. I’m semi-serious here. He will look attractive and he will be nice and helpful and he will get a job where he influences a great God-fearing nation and he will never do an evil thing… he will just bit by little bit lower standards where they are important.”

Michelle Dubois on March 16, 2009 at 8:33 PM

The whole thesis in C.S. Lewis’ The Screwtape Letters.

Lewis imagined the devils to be bureaucrats who would slowly take over a soul, because a humans were less likely to see the Seven Deadly Sins when presented in increments.

Wethal on March 16, 2009 at 8:39 PM

To anyone who thinks standing up for one’s country and her servicemen and women is deranged, then you, sir or madam, are a weak minded fool. You are selfish, small and ill equipped to handle the beauty of American citizenship with a pittance of pride. I would put my life on the line for you, my fellow citizen, 24/7; if you will not do the same for me, then who is the deranged one?

Ris4victory on March 16, 2009 at 8:39 PM

The second amendment is for the people to keep the power of the federal government in check. Is it any small wonder it’s the Dems who want gun control?

First amendment freedom of speech was specifically set up to protect our right to criticize our government (not to be profane whenever we feel like it). Gee, and which party want the “fairness doctrine?”

Special K on March 16, 2009 at 8:41 PM

The Second Amendment preserves the right to bear arms, for the purpose of a well-regulated militia.

I am wondering why someone would mention having “Second Amendment Fever” after declaring Obama the Worst President ever, and I would like him to expound upon that thought.

Proud Rino on March 16, 2009 at 8:36 PM

Oooo….will you run and go tell the teacher if you don’t like the answer?

Sugarbuzz on March 16, 2009 at 8:42 PM

oh, and he’s the first minority Executive in the history of Western Civilization. So there’s that.
Proud Rino on March 16, 2009 at 8:06 PM

And, pray tell, just what in the flying hell does that have to do with the price of apples in Rotterdam???

Yes, the possibility of a successful impeachment is practically nil. He could serial rape a class of second graders on national tv during prime time and this country wouldn’t have the testicular fortitude to do anything about it.

However, his power grabs are starting to wire shut the safety valves that the founding fathers built into the system. THAT can have some very unpleasant consequences.

bullseye on March 16, 2009 at 8:42 PM

Are gross incompetence and immorality impeachable offenses?

Special K on March 16, 2009 at 8:37 PM

Well there are different definitions of what “High Crimes and Misdemeanours” are – I wrote my thesis on this topic and my opinion is that incompetence and immorality are not impeachable offenses.

Based on my understanding of English Common Law impeachment and the debates of the Founders, impeachment was intended to remove presidents for abuses of the unique powers granted to them as the Executive. So you could murder someone and not be impeached theoretically (although you would obviously be tried in a criminal court after your term), but you could be impeached for using govt agencies to spy on opposition parties or something.

Proud Rino on March 16, 2009 at 8:42 PM

Shinseki is as far to the left ad Obama.

rplat on March 16, 2009 at 8:26 PM

Ah, no. Far left of Obama wraps right around to far right. I think a little left of Obama wraps around to far right, actually.

funky chicken on March 16, 2009 at 8:42 PM

Where is Colin Powell?

artist on March 16, 2009 at 8:43 PM

Where is Colin Powell?

artist on March 16, 2009 at 8:43 PM

A good point. If Powell criticizes Obama, the O’s in trouble. Powell is the MSM’s favorite general, after Weasel Clark.

Wethal on March 16, 2009 at 8:44 PM

BigWyo on March 16, 2009 at 8:35 PM

It was certainly caustic, but I still disagree that it was at all deranged. I view that reaction as commensurate with the despicable nature of the idiot messiah’s attempt to destroy our military; a strong response to a very bad development (though not an unexpected development once people realize that The Precedent is out for revenge, above all, and that is revenge against the US and the West).

progressoverpeace on March 16, 2009 at 8:45 PM

Special K on March 16, 2009 at 8:41 PM

So what are YOU thinking, and projecting onto others, hmmm?

MadisonConservative on March 16, 2009 at 8:39 PM

Yes and one for you too RINO.

The new list
…by your Prez…just came out today…I love the internet.

Get the “duct tape” out people.

Not Over.

1GooDDaDDy on March 16, 2009 at 8:46 PM

And, pray tell, just what in the flying hell does that have to do with the price of apples in Rotterdam???

That means he’s even less likely to be impeached.

Sugarbuzz on March 16, 2009 at 8:42 PM

I don’t know what the answer is. I won’t do anything if I don’t like it, I guess. I do find it curious that you are either too ashamed or too afraid to say what it is. Curious indeed.

Proud Rino on March 16, 2009 at 8:47 PM

AOSHQ had a good question, “John McCain, do you stil think Obama is a ‘decent person’?”

Wethal on March 16, 2009 at 8:48 PM

Hey Maddy…he’s all yours ma brotha’

Not Over.

1GooDDaDDy on March 16, 2009 at 8:38 PM

I have a feeling our friend here really does live up to his name, although it should actually be ProudOstrich.

Seriously though, talk to people. You’d be amazed how many absolutely scoff at the notion of taking up arms against the government, REGARDLESS of the circumstances. Even if they knew they were going to be disarmed, have their property seized, maybe even arrested for speaking out, the concept is beyond their comprehension. It’s frightening the level of complacency in this country. I’m not saying I’d be ready at a moment’s notice for such a situation if a National Guardsmen were at my door, but I sure as hell wouldn’t go quietly.

MadisonConservative on March 16, 2009 at 8:49 PM

Obama is a shitheel.

ahem on March 16, 2009 at 8:49 PM

Proud Rino,

Isn’t this blatant power grab over private industry and “socializing” everything an “abuse of power?” Of course, FDR did the same thing, and a lot of his New Deal programs were found unconstitutional. Maybe some litigation is in order.

I’m just fed up, frustrated, aggravated, etc. May have to join the July 4 protest in D.C. this summer–if our nation survives that long.

Special K on March 16, 2009 at 8:50 PM

oh, and he’s the first minority Executive in the history of Western Civilization.

Proud Rino on March 16, 2009 at 8:06 PM

The Precedent.

I’d prefer a President, but because of twits like you, this is what we got. He’ll be thrown out within a year.

progressoverpeace on March 16, 2009 at 8:50 PM

Ris4victory on March 16, 2009 at 8:39 PM

Now hang on there Hoss…I’m every bit as outraged about this as everyone else here. But saying things like ‘Take him out’ really won’t help.

BTW…USN…85-91.

P.S. Yer coming off as a troll.

BigWyo on March 16, 2009 at 8:50 PM

Even if they knew they were going to be disarmed, have their property seized, maybe even arrested for speaking out,

Since as long as the United States has existed, all of these things have been possible and within the power of the federal government.

Proud Rino on March 16, 2009 at 8:51 PM

Where is Colin Powell?

artist on March 16, 2009 at 8:43 PM

Out on a speaking tour making a ton of cash??

BigWyo on March 16, 2009 at 8:54 PM

MadisonConservative on March 16, at 8:49 PM

Disregard the idea of an NG personnel at your door, sir.
Our military is sworn to protect and defend the Constitution. No person in government would be able to force them to traduce that oath. I firmly believe they would refuse to obey what would be a series of unlawful orders.

irongrampa on March 16, 2009 at 8:54 PM

Of course, FDR did the same thing, and a lot of his New Deal programs were found unconstitutional. Maybe some litigation is in order.

Special K on March 16, 2009 at 8:50 PM

Yes, but he threatened to increase the size of the Supreme Court to get a majority, so SCOTUS caved on some issues. Wodner how the RINO Three (Specter, Collins and Snowe) would vote on court-packing.

Wethal on March 16, 2009 at 8:54 PM

Since as long as the United States has existed, all of these things have been possible and within the power of the federal government.

Proud Rino on March 16, 2009 at 8:51 PM

…and unconstitutional.

What’s your point? We didn’t fight back then, so fighting back now is not an option?

MadisonConservative on March 16, 2009 at 8:55 PM

Is there a chance the GOP can join with Dems and quickly push Congress to erect a statue of Obama in D.C.?

The unstated purpose would be so war vets can march into town and climb it to wipe the face with Old Glory as a grave insult…before tearing it down and dragging the pieces through the streets.

econavenger on March 16, 2009 at 8:56 PM

Our military is sworn to protect and defend the Constitution. No person in government would be able to force them to traduce that oath. I firmly believe they would refuse to obey what would be a series of unlawful orders.

irongrampa on March 16, 2009 at 8:54 PM

Sir, I have some bad news for you.

MadisonConservative on March 16, 2009 at 8:56 PM

Well there goes the military. Who would be willing to serve under this moron or enlist in the first place with this type of policy?

Jimmy Carter is looking better every day.

txag92 on March 16, 2009 at 8:56 PM

Some ex-KGB head has projected the United States will dissolve and split into 5-6 smaller nations. You know, if we could just slice off the northeastern corridor and the left coast, you know, the blue states and have our own red state country, we’d be alright. Afterall, there is nothing in the Constitution against secession.

Special K on March 16, 2009 at 8:57 PM

MadisonConservative on March 16, 2009 at 8:55 PM

When I said “within the power,” I thought it was implicit that they were legal. Anyway, it’s legal for the federal government to do all those things, and it always has been. It almost certainly always will be.

Proud Rino on March 16, 2009 at 8:57 PM

To anyone who thinks standing up for one’s country and her servicemen and women is deranged, then you, sir or madam, are a weak minded fool. You are selfish, small and ill equipped to handle the beauty of American citizenship with a pittance of pride. I would put my life on the line for you, my fellow citizen, 24/7; if you will not do the same for me, then who is the deranged one?

Ris4victory on March 16, 2009 at 8:39 PM

Ris4victory on March 16, 2009 at 8:39 PM

Now hang on there Hoss…I’m every bit as outraged about this as everyone else here. But saying things like ‘Take him out’ really won’t help.

BTW…USN…85-91.

P.S. Yer coming off as a troll.

BigWyo on March 16, 2009 at 8:50 PM

BigWyo: I have read his comment several times and fail to see how you came to your conclusion.

carbon_footprint on March 16, 2009 at 8:59 PM

This project is already being implemented. I am a life member of the Disabled American Veterans. I have already received a letter from the Veterans Administration inquiring as to whether I had any form of health insurance, and, if so, to forward the details of those policies to the VA.

Pelosi and Reid, last year, stated that they were looking at the VA system as a model upon which to base a National Health Care system. I will say this about such a system: I have never had, in any civilian system, the quality of care that I have experienced in the VA hospitals I have been in. I have had several surgeries and many many appointments. the medical staff has been incredibly compassionate and professional.

HOWEVER: The bureaucracy has been unbelievably slow, inflexible, and reminiscent of the 19th century. So much paperwork, so many boards and commissions and staff to look over everything. It takes weeks, if not months, to get some things done. In order to, for example, see a podiatrist, I would first have to schedule an appointment with my primary care physician. he would examine me, and make a referral to an in-house podiatrist if he felt that was appropriate. It might take 6-8 weeks to see my primary doctor, and another 4-6 weeks to get in to the podiatrist. that’s if everything is running smoothly.

As to medications, the docs can only prescribe what the VA formulary includes, and that can change from week to week. If the VA doesn’t have the medication you need, you can request a waiver and sometimes they will make an exception. Otherwise, you’ll have to go elsewhere and purchase it out of pocket.

Many other times, your local VA hospital will have to send you to another VA hospital, sometimes out of state, for treatment. The government has been quietly moving resources out of areas with smaller veteran populations, to areas with larger ones. As an example, anyone in Maine needing most surgery has to go to Boston to receive it.

Anyway, that’s a peek into the world of universal health care. My doctors and nurses have been fantastic, but the paperwork, the wait times, and the frustration levels are way over the top. It’s just so hard to get anything done, so hard to see the people you need to see. I’d like to say that my experience is very typical of that others receive. We are all very grateful for what we get, but folks, fight to keep health care in the civilian market. If you end up with like what we veterans have, you will live to regret it.

AW1 Tim on March 16, 2009 at 9:00 PM

MadisonConservative on March 16,2009 at 8:56 PM

Umm, those are NOPD, not military. I was unable to watch the entire clip,don’t know why, it only played for a moment or so. But I’ll presume that no military was shown confiscating weapons.

irongrampa on March 16, 2009 at 9:01 PM

When I said “within the power,” I thought it was implicit that they were legal. Anyway, it’s legal for the federal government to do all those things, and it always has been. It almost certainly always will be.

Proud Rino on March 16, 2009 at 8:57 PM

The first amendment protects free speech against government oppression. Presidents like Lincoln and Wilson suspended these rights during wartime. Those actions have been disputed in their legality for decades since.

Disarmament of the population is strictly unconstitutional, as per the second amendment. As linked above, because they did it in New Orleans does not make it legal. There’s also a great deal of argument about the seizing of private property under certain circumstances. Your abject acceptance of all of these types of things as legal shows that you really see no limit to government power. It’s quite disgusting. What do you see keeping the government in check?

By the way, we’re still waiting to hear what you are implying that others were saying.

MadisonConservative on March 16, 2009 at 9:01 PM

Umm, those are NOPD, not military. I was unable to watch the entire clip,don’t know why, it only played for a moment or so. But I’ll presume that no military was shown confiscating weapons.

irongrampa on March 16, 2009 at 9:01 PM

There’s several copies of the clip. Find one that works. The rest of the clip shows National Guardsmen assisting the NOPD in their confiscations, entering people’s houses with their weapons up.

MadisonConservative on March 16, 2009 at 9:03 PM

Wethal, you’re right, FDR did try to pack the Supreme Court–and it brought the ire of both the Congress, which was Democratic, and the liberal media. Even he overstepped his bounds. His popularity took a real hit over that. What saved him was the situation in Europe was getting out of control and people were afraid to change leaders when Hitler was pressing for territories in Czechoslovakia, etc.

Special K on March 16, 2009 at 9:04 PM

Where is Colin Powell?

At a CFR board meeting?

What a disgrace.

ex-Democrat on March 16, 2009 at 9:06 PM

Don’t forget.

They want riots.

Time to take a page from MLK.

Keep your powder dry, but remember: if anarchy comes, Ayers is mine.

ex-Democrat on March 16, 2009 at 9:08 PM

MadisonConservative on March 16, 2009 at 9:01 PM

1. I wasn’t implying anything. I was asking. I really don’t know. Everyone is either too embarrassed or too afraid to tell me, which is pathetic.

2. Yes, the First Amendment protects free speech, particularly free political speech. But obscenity is not legal. Publishing child pornography is not legal. Giving away national security secrets is not legal. All restrictions on free speech, and all legal restrictions. You can’t shout fire in a crowded theatre, you can’t use “fighting words,” etc etc. There are many, many restrictions. Generally speaking, they’re pretty good ideas.

3. People have a right to arms, but no judge (I have to limit it to sane people and not the nuts here) has *ever* ruled that the right to bear arms cannot be restricted, and just because the 2nd Amendment gives you the right to bear arms doesn’t mean you have the right to bear *any kind* of weapon. You are not allowed to have a nuclear bomb. That is a good idea, as far as I’m concerned.

4. Govt has always been able to seize private property. It’s called eminent domain. It’s in the Constitution.

Proud Rino on March 16, 2009 at 9:08 PM

Government health care for everyone, except the troops. We elected Ward Churchill?

Erich66 on March 16, 2009 at 9:12 PM

So. What is Mr. President going to do? Make every Insurance Company repeal the Act of War provision in every Major Medical Policy? As someone with his Health, Life, and Accident License. I can tell you. That ain’t happenin’ without a fight. Unless he is completely ignorant of this provision, he is intentionally trying to shaft our Veterans.

kingsjester on March 16, 2009 at 9:13 PM

Proud Rino on March 16, 2009 at 9:08 PM

NO judge has provenance to to so rule. “The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed”.

There’s no equivocation, or limit to specific arms stated or implied.

irongrampa on March 16, 2009 at 9:14 PM

Keep your powder dry, but remember: if anarchy comes, Ayers is mine.

ex-Democrat on March 16, 2009 at 9:08 PM

I’ll rassle ya’ fer ‘im!

thomasaur on March 16, 2009 at 9:16 PM

Madisonconservative–you’re correct. Refresh my memory, was Martial Law declared? I honestly can’t recall.

If there wasn’t, then those Ng troops were performimg an unconstitutional act.

irongrampa on March 16, 2009 at 9:17 PM

1. I wasn’t implying anything. I was asking. I really don’t know. Everyone is either too embarrassed or too afraid to tell me, which is pathetic.

Proud Rino on March 16, 2009 at 9:08 PM

Uh huh.

2. Yes, the First Amendment protects free speech, particularly free political speech. But obscenity is not legal. Publishing child pornography is not legal. Giving away national security secrets is not legal. All restrictions on free speech, and all legal restrictions. You can’t shout fire in a crowded theatre, you can’t use “fighting words,” etc etc. There are many, many restrictions. Generally speaking, they’re pretty good ideas.

Criticism of the government is legal. That’s what I referred to, and you know it. Your comparisons are not applicable.

3. People have a right to arms, but no judge (I have to limit it to sane people and not the nuts here) has *ever* ruled that the right to bear arms cannot be restricted, and just because the 2nd Amendment gives you the right to bear arms doesn’t mean you have the right to bear *any kind* of weapon. You are not allowed to have a nuclear bomb. That is a good idea, as far as I’m concerned.

Okay, this is the second time you’ve used this straw man argument to argue down one of our fundamental rights. Are you actually going to argue the merits of the essence of the second amendment, or not?

The second amendment was intended to provide the citizens with the ability to overthrow the government. Do I need to make it any clearer to you? Would Thomas Jefferson help?

There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century & a half for each state. What country before ever existed a century & a half without a rebellion? & what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon & pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure. Our Convention has been too much impressed by the insurrection of Massachusetts: and in the spur of the moment they are setting up a kite to keep the hen-yard in order.

4. Govt has always been able to seize private property. It’s called eminent domain. It’s in the Constitution.

Proud Rino on March 16, 2009 at 9:08 PM

Again, hotly contested. Again, why do you accept government power without any evident resistance? The government is supposed to fear the people, not the other way around.

MadisonConservative on March 16, 2009 at 9:17 PM

.

2. Yes, the First Amendment protects free speech, particularly free political speech. Not necessarily under McCain-Feingold, which singles out political speech. SCOTUS heard argument on this today, I think.

But obscenity is not legal. Publishing child pornography is not legal. Giving away national security secrets is not legal. Unless you’re the New York Times. All restrictions on free speech, and all legal restrictions. You can’t shout fire in a crowded theatre, You can if the theatre is on fire. You can’t use “fighting words,” only a problem if a fight actually results etc etc.

There are many, many restrictions. Many?? The presumption is in favor of free speech and restrictions must meet “strict scrutiny.” Generally speaking, they’re pretty good ideas.

4. Govt has always been able to seize private property. It’s called eminent domain. It’s in the Constitution. but they must provide just compensation, i.e., the fair market value. It’s a forced sale to the government.

Proud Rino on March 16, 2009 at 9:08 PM

Wethal on March 16, 2009 at 9:19 PM

BigWyo: I have read his comment several times and fail to see how you came to your conclusion.

carbon_footprint on March 16, 2009 at 8:59 PM

Wasn’t talking about that one…this one:

This stooge obama has no soul (or courage or heart or loyalty or patriotism). I loathe him with every fiber in my being. When you f**k with our soliders, you F**K WITH US ALL and WE WON’T STAND FOR IT DAMMIT. Let’s take this asshole down.

Ris4victory on March 16, 2009 at 8:06 PM

and what brought the whole thing up was this one:

Maybe you 2 should familiarize yourselves with the meaning of the word ‘Derangement’…

BigWyo on March 16, 2009 at 7:58 PM

Does it look like this?

This stooge obama has no soul (or courage or heart or loyalty or patriotism). I loathe him with every fiber in my being. When you f**k with our soliders, you F**K WITH US ALL and WE WON’T STAND FOR IT DAMMIT. Let’s take this asshole down.

Ris4victory on March 16, 2009 at 8:06 PM

Proud Rino on March 16, 2009 at 8:09 PM

Obama is rapidly becoming a complete disgrace. Another day, another ‘I really can’t believe this prick is doing that.’

Just you watch an see. Tomorrow, Peter Griffin will be up behind the podium explaining this all away.

‘Now you all need to know the difference between “Screwing over our Military” and “Enabling them to be self sufficient and taking it to those fat cat insurance companies at the same time. And you know what else, Rush Limbaugh wants this to fail too!!!’

BigWyo on March 16, 2009 at 9:23 PM

Madisonconservative–you’re correct. Refresh my memory, was Martial Law declared? I honestly can’t recall.

If there wasn’t, then those Ng troops were performimg an unconstitutional act.

irongrampa on March 16, 2009 at 9:17 PM

Actually, no, martial law was not in effect. New Orleans was declared in a State of Emergency, and Mayor Nagin also declared something to that effect, but the state of Louisiana has no language to declare martial law.

Even so, considering that the vast majority of the weapons that were seized were either destroyed, ruined by the conditions in which they were stored, or still are being held by the NOPD, it wouldn’t matter because the state of Martial Law ending would require those arms be returned to their owners. It’s still a crime of gargantuan proportions.

However, guess what? Once you give up your arms, you have no power to get them back.

MadisonConservative on March 16, 2009 at 9:24 PM

but remember: if anarchy comes, Ayers is mine.

ex-Democrat on March 16, 2009 at 9:08 PM

Not so fast!

artist on March 16, 2009 at 9:24 PM

Wethal on March 16, 2009 at 9:19 PM

I don’t dispute any of that, really.

Proud Rino on March 16, 2009 at 9:27 PM

I am absolutely willing to pay a reasonable tax to provide funds for the care and assistance of our men and women in uniform, and those retired who have worn it. How can we not care for our veterans and enlisted and then give P. Diddly his welfare check for not working? I think Obama was dropped on his head as a baby.

jimmy2shoes on March 16, 2009 at 9:27 PM

BigWyo on March 16, 2009 at 9:23 PM

Ok
That could be construed as being over the line. Take him down by getting conservatives into the Congress in ’10 and by defeating him in ’12 would be just fine.

carbon_footprint on March 16, 2009 at 9:28 PM

Empty words…

elgeneralisimo on March 16, 2009 at 9:30 PM

Shinseki is as far to the left ad Obama.

rplat on March 16, 2009 at 8:26 PM

Shineski’s basically a good guy, but you are right, he’s a dedicated Leftist. He was born in the same island state that O’bama claims to have been born in.

That’s probably his major qualification for his new job, although since he is also from a Japanese-American family that also plays a part in his appointment.

Del Dolemonte on March 16, 2009 at 9:32 PM

I am wondering why someone would mention having “Second Amendment Fever” after declaring Obama the Worst President ever, and I would like him to expound upon that thought.

Proud Rino on March 16, 2009 at 8:36 PM

I am wondering why anyone here would waste the effort to explain their comments to a poster who never backs up his argumments with facts…..

Red State State of Mind on March 16, 2009 at 9:33 PM

carbon_footprint on March 16, 2009 at 9:28 PM

Kinda what I was on about. Never seen Ris4victory before. Could just be really passionate about the topic, could be some leftard trog. Dunno.

BigWyo on March 16, 2009 at 9:34 PM

I’m so, so, so dissapointed. I…don’t know what to do. Veterans families overwhelmingly deal with healthcare costs and tend to already come from working class families.

DeathToMediaHacks on March 16, 2009 at 9:38 PM

If this happens I won’t vote for Obama in 2012.

DeathToMediaHacks on March 16, 2009 at 9:39 PM

Geez! Who left the window open and let the feces encrusted, Frum flies in? This “Proud Rhino” pest really makes it a chore to read this thread. Anyone have a pest swatter?

Vince on March 16, 2009 at 9:41 PM

Maybe you 2 should familiarize yourselves with the meaning of the word ‘Derangement’…

BigWyo on March 16, 2009 at 7:58 PM

What the hell are you talking about?

anniekc on March 16, 2009 at 9:41 PM

DeathToMediaHacks on March 16, 2009 at 9:38 PM
DeathToMediaHacks on March 16, 2009 at 9:39 PM

Good for you Sir.

carbon_footprint on March 16, 2009 at 9:42 PM

Please spread the word about this disgusting policy decision! Make sure all your friends know this is taking place.

davenp35 on March 16, 2009 at 9:42 PM

Hack! There is hope for you yet!

Vince on March 16, 2009 at 9:42 PM

How does this administration think they are going to order soldiers into combat while telling them if their wounded they’ll have to pay for it????

This guy sucks as president!

aigle on March 16, 2009 at 9:43 PM

If this happens I won’t vote for Obama in 2012.

DeathToMediaHacks on March 16, 2009 at 9:39 PM

Hope.

Change.

Obama really has brought that about. Hope in conservatives and change in liberals.

MadisonConservative on March 16, 2009 at 9:45 PM

Maybe you 2 should familiarize yourselves with the meaning of the word ‘Derangement’…

BigWyo on March 16, 2009 at 7:58 PM

What the hell are you talking about?

anniekc on March 16, 2009 at 9:41 P

I think what BigWyo meant was that ‘derangement’ is a term that links to a mental disturbance, such as a unhealthy obsession with hatred that many had for Bush. However, ‘derangement’ would not fitting for the ire we feel for Obama because he is so horrid that it is a natural response.

carbon_footprint on March 16, 2009 at 9:45 PM

How can Barry force Insurance Companies to repeal the Act of War Provision that exists in every Major Medical and Supplemental Insurance policy in the country?

kingsjester on March 16, 2009 at 9:49 PM

I think what BigWyo meant was that ‘derangement’ is a term that links to a mental disturbance, such as a unhealthy obsession with hatred that many had for Bush. However, ‘derangement’ would not fitting for the ire we feel for Obama because he is so horrid that it is a natural response.

carbon_footprint on March 16, 2009 at 9:45 PM

I believe if we were to direct our ire over perceived threats rather than verifiable ones, it would be fair to call it derangement. However, watching publicly stated contempt of the military becoming legislation eliminates the categorization of our rage as “deranged”.

MadisonConservative on March 16, 2009 at 9:50 PM

Just when I thought Obama couldn’t hit a new low, he proves me wrong. This has to be bizarro world. Are there no Donkeys that have served in the Armed Forces to pull him aside and set him straight? This is either the height of arrogance or stupidity, but likely both.

Neo-con Artist on March 16, 2009 at 9:50 PM

I’m so, so, so dissapointed. I…don’t know what to do. Veterans families overwhelmingly deal with healthcare costs and tend to already come from working class families.

DeathToMediaHacks on March 16, 2009 at 9:38 PM

What’s your background? Are you a military person yourself, or come from a military family?

Del Dolemonte on March 16, 2009 at 9:51 PM

Just another shameful day, in a shameful presidency, with a shameful cabinet.

You know.. Words escape me now. This is just falling way too far, way too fast, and it’s getting way to freaky.

No words about Russia docking missiles just miles from me. Nothing about Iran declaring themselves a Nuclear Power. Nothing about North Korea advancing on South Korea. Where’s Joe Biden? Nobody messes with Joe, don’tcha know? Nothing about Patreus’ recommendations on Afghanistan.

Folks, it’s starting to look like we’re all for ourselves. There is no leadership. No direction. No trust.

Lesson for Obama. Although you have torn this Country down in just over 50 days; decimated our Military, humiliated our Allies, dissed our Soldiers, capitulated to our enemies, tanked the free market, attacked private citizens, trotted out insane and over-reaching policies and shoved them down our throats, not to mention having our Great Nation publically embarrassed time after time?

Make no mistake, Obama Administration. You’ve gotta problem. And the problem is an informed American Populous.

Key West Reader on March 16, 2009 at 9:52 PM

I think what BigWyo meant was that ‘derangement’ is a term that links to a mental disturbance, such as a unhealthy obsession with hatred that many had for Bush. However, ‘derangement’ would not fitting for the ire we feel for Obama because he is so horrid that it is a natural response.

carbon_footprint on March 16, 2009 at 9:45

PM

Hmmmmmm. Interesting. Unfortunately, I guess my hatred, (which is decidedly unhealthy) for Obama puts me in derangement risk. Oh well.

anniekc on March 16, 2009 at 9:53 PM

Of course President TelePrompter and all Congress critters will continue to use the federal gold-plated health insurance, paid by OUR tax dollars. If they make our Veterans pay, then they need to pay also!

TN Mom on March 16, 2009 at 9:54 PM

If this happens I won’t vote for Obama in 2012.
DeathToMediaHacks on March 16, 2009 at 9:39 PM

Uh huh.

Bishop on March 16, 2009 at 9:54 PM

This is my third or fourth time saying this on here, and yes, I’m still currently on a military base overseas.

The american people gave us a big middle finger when they voted for obama.

Hope, change, and telling the military to kiss off.

TTheoLogan on March 16, 2009 at 9:56 PM

April 15, 2009.

Cowboys n Congress Critters.

http://www.Imwithrick.com

Key West Reader on March 16, 2009 at 9:56 PM

This is my third or fourth time saying this on here, and yes, I’m still currently on a military base overseas.

The american people gave us a big middle finger when they voted for obama.

Hope, change, and telling the military to kiss off.

TTheoLogan on March 16, 2009 at 9:56 PM

You hang in there, Theo. We’re with you. ALL THE WAY.

Key West Reader on March 16, 2009 at 9:57 PM

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