Medieval Brits didn’t particularly like wealth redistribution

posted at 4:29 pm on March 14, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

Popular representations of Robin Hood invariably portray him as a hero of the common man, fighting the rich and restoring what they stole from the populace through tyranny.  According to a newly-discovered reference, the people of his own time didn’t have quite so much affection for him — not even the community from which Friar Tuck would have come:

According to legend, Robin Hood roamed 13th-century Britain from a base in central England’s Sherwood Forest, plundering from the rich to give to the poor.

But Luxford, an art history lecturer at Scotland’s University of St. Andrews, says a 23-word inscription in the margins of a history book, written in Latin by a medieval monk around 1460, casts the outlaw as a persistent thief.

“Around this time, according to popular opinion, a certain outlaw named Robin Hood, with his accomplices, infested Sherwood and other law-abiding areas of England with continuous robberies,” the note read when translated into English, Luxford said. …

“I saw his name, it leapt out at me,” Luxford, 41, said Saturday. “I knew enough about the relative dearth of references to him from the medieval period to know this might be important.”

Luxford, an expert in medieval manuscripts, said the find “contains a uniquely negative assessment of the outlaw, and provides rare evidence for monastic attitudes towards him.”

I was just thinking about Robin Hood and his influence on Western thought last night while watching the movie Fried Green Tomatoes.  In one scene, Idgie convinces Ruth to raid a boxcar shipping food in order to toss the goods to people living in Hoovervilles by the tracks.  The music swells as Ruth sees how happy her own personal theft and redistribution makes the recipients, while Idgie assures her that the church people from whom they are stealing the food often drink, so it’s okay.  No, I’m serious.

Maybe that’s why we have so many people who think of redistribution as a great idea.  It’s the entire Robin Hood scenario, which demonizes the victims while he steals their property and determines who wins in the transaction.  In the fifteenth century, people apparently had more sense and could recognize theft when they saw it.  Nowadays, we celebrate — and elect — people who promise to confiscate property and redistribute it as they see fit.

Update: Some commenters object to the analogy, saying that Robin Hood opposed the government, but he stole from travelers on the highway. He stole from the rich, not strictly from the government, and became the world’s first populist. And more to the point of this post, the entire redistributionist notion that someone needs to take (by force) from the rich and give to the poor (as deemed worthy by the redistributors) either springs from Robin Hood or finds substantiation in the legend. It’s not a large leap from cheering Idgie and Ruth to getting the government to do it for you.

Update II: Ace agrees with most of the commenters:

We know him through folklore. I just never got the Randian thing of casting him as a villain. Given the premise of a tyrannical state, how is Robin Hood cast so easily as a left-winger? Isn’t this the sort of thing Rand would have wished kulaks had done in her poor, abused Russia?

Besides that, every thief is first and foremost a capitalist, and if he was “stealing from the rich to give to the poor,” let’s just say I think he and his men were defined as First Among the Poor, and got almost all of the loot. And tossing out some money to the locals? Buying goodwill and protection. Same thing the Mafia does in its strongholds; same thing, in fact, Hezballah or Hamas do.

There you have it — Robin Hood is Hamas!  Look, can we at least agree that Kevin Costner was the worst Robin Hood in entertainment history?

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I think all of the popular crimals have different aspects to them.

For example Bonnie & Clyde I’ve only seen glamorized as exciting- but never as moral.

Billy the Kid gets his legend because he was essentially caught up in a fight between landowners, and Billy sided with the underdog- mainly because of personal loyalty. So he’s often whitewashed and depicted as standing up to corrupt murderous gangsters who had influence with the government. Still, there was a bunch of gray to the whole situation.

Butch Cassidy mainly got his good reputation because he was careful to rob people outside his community, and he was careful not to kill anyone. Plus he was known for being very generous personally, not only with the money he stole but also for being a soft touch in getting him to go do something for some noble reason. I think at the time he was thought of mainly as an idiot toublemaker stuck in adolescence, but with a decent heart. That combined with his too late efforts to go straight and the fact that he was hunted down by the Pinkertons, who nobody liked, meant he got to have a big Hollywood movie glorifying him as an anti-villain/anti-hero, or something.

Jesse James mainly got good press because of his confederate ties I believe, and with the fading of that sentiment, his popularity has also decreased.

Flat out criminals simply aren’t admired that much. They have to have something else before they can be seen as heroic-

Like Ocean Eleven- the assumption is that Casinos are evil crooks anyways so who cares if they get robbed.

The Godfather was moving because family loyalty essentially doomed a decent man- it’s basically a tragedy.

Sackett on March 14, 2009 at 7:20 PM

petunia on March 14, 2009 at 7:09 PM

Seeing I’m a descendant of King John I am quite aware of how history has lionized Richard at the expense of his brother.

However, the point is that most versions of the Robin Hood myth depicted the villains as an evil government taxing the poor- not evil merchants.

Sackett on March 14, 2009 at 7:23 PM

The Germanic Saxons had been conquered by the French Normans. Conquered, but never quite subdued. There has been centuries worth of tension between the two groups. (it continues even today: England = Saxon vs Britain = Norman).

The “French Normans” had only been “French” for a century or so; They were Normans from “North Men”, as in they were Danes that had settled on the French coast (Normandy). So they were only a few generations removed from Vikings. as for England vs. Britain, the ancient term Britons refers to the people that inhabited England prior to the Saxon invasions of the 5th century. Those people were pushed west, and are now known as the Welsh. Nowadays, England refers to the specific region of the isle bordered on the west by Wales, and on the North by Scotland. Britain is the island as a whole, also known as Great Britain.

Frozen Tex on March 14, 2009 at 7:29 PM

Seeing I’m a descendant of King John I am quite aware of how history has lionized Richard at the expense of his brother.

Sackett on March 14, 2009 at 7:23 PM

Richard I spent only a few months of his reign in England, and considered it a backwater of his Kingdom, being more concerned with his French holdings. He wouldn’t have even spoken English (such as it was at the time) but Norman French.

Frozen Tex on March 14, 2009 at 7:32 PM

There you have it — Robin Hood is Hamas! Look, can we at least agree that Kevin Costner was the worst Robin Hood in entertainment history?

Tru dat, playa.

The only Englishmen in the whole film to have a southern accent. Awful.

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on March 14, 2009 at 7:32 PM

I know that in his earliest references, Robin Hood was framed as a common thief (this isn’t actually news – the earliest references to him aren’t his legends but allusions made in legal documents). As I gather, as time went on the theme of his story morphed from sort of proto-pirate heroism, to class warfare, and eventually to Fawkes-ish romantic opposition to the government for the sake of the people. It is this last incarnation that I am a fan of, I think it would be a mistake to conflate all three Robins together.

pifactorial on March 14, 2009 at 7:34 PM

Best movie evah……

Seven Percent Solution on Mar 14,2009 at 7:07PM.

Seven Percent Solution: SPS,haha,straight to the facts!

“If you couldn’t pay your taxes,straight to jail”!

That’ll be Hopey’s New Tax Directive,off to jail,or
sumpin like dat!!:)

canopfor on March 14, 2009 at 7:38 PM

Must be a slow news day, unable to find attacks on our President.

getalife on March 14, 2009 at 7:41 PM

Frozen Tex on March 14, 2009 at 7:29 PM
In 449, the Brits hired the Saxons to fight to the Picts, the Scots, & the Irish. So, IMO, they were kind of asking to get taken over…

youngTXcon on March 14, 2009 at 7:41 PM

If you rob the Lord of the Manor, you rob everybody whose income depends on his income. The Lord won’t starve. Just his poorest tenants will starve.

RBMN on March 14, 2009 at 5:42 PM

Which is why all the people running for the State Senate over here are in favor of taxing the rich. Their view is that if they don’t, the poor will suffer.

As in the old days, we are now tenants of the State.

I can see how a monastic might have a bad opinion of Robin Hood. Part of the reason King Henry (VIII) was successful in destroying the Catholic Church was the promise of land redistribution from the monastaries. The various Kings of the British Isles had gifted the Church over the years with thousands of acres of land, and much of that land was held by the monastaries. Given the feudalism of the times, there were peasants tied to monastic lands, and anything which served to disrupt that portion of society would not have been well looked upon. The Archbishop of Canterbury, Simon Sudbury, in whose archdiocese Nottingham lie, was dispised for his heavy hand with ecclesiastical taxes (taxing identically [a head tax] both the rich and the poor — something not even the most avowed conservative today would propose). The Sheriff of Nottingham, John de Oxford, also had a habit of taking what didn’t belong to him and then selling it back to the very same merchants he had originally stolen from.

In other words, Robin Hood was a thief in a time of thieves both official and ecclesiastical.

unclesmrgol on March 14, 2009 at 7:43 PM

Obama says US economy sound, reassures investors:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090314/ap_on_go_pr_wh/obama_economy

Buy,buy,buy!

getalife on March 14, 2009 at 7:43 PM

Must be a slow news day, unable to find attacks on our President.

getalife on March 14, 2009 at 7:41 PM

it is an attack on your whole party ideology getaclue….

sven10077 on March 14, 2009 at 7:44 PM

Tru dat,playa.

The only Englishmen in the whole film to have a southern accent.Awful.

Dr.Cwac.Cwac. on Mar 14,2009 at 7:32PM.

Dr.Cwac.Cwac: I’ll chime in here as well,and agree!

Worst accent, E V E R !

Btw,didn’t Sean Connery,play Robin Hood?:)

canopfor on March 14, 2009 at 7:44 PM

Buy,buy,buy!

getalife on March 14, 2009 at 7:43 PM

your brown eyed boy is sort of like a three card monte dealer barking for a sucker….

he nukes capital gains he better start wearing a bikini to lure folks in….

sven10077 on March 14, 2009 at 7:45 PM

Btw,didn’t Sean Connery,play Robin Hood?:)

canopfor on March 14, 2009 at 7:44 PM

In Robin and Marian with the lovely Audrey Hepburn as Sister Marian…

sven10077 on March 14, 2009 at 7:46 PM

sven10077 on March 14, 2009 at 7:44 PM

We are capitalists in good times but socialists in bad.

getalife on March 14, 2009 at 7:46 PM

canopfor on March 14, 2009 at 7:44 PM
RE Sean Connery: In Robin & Marian (1976) with Audrey Hepburn.

youngTXcon on March 14, 2009 at 7:47 PM

We are capitalists in good times but socialists in bad.

getalife on March 14, 2009 at 7:46 PM

This nation has not seen “bad times” since the late ’70s the last time a doughy headed idealist moonbat was in charge….

sven10077 on March 14, 2009 at 7:47 PM

You people type too fast…

youngTXcon on March 14, 2009 at 7:48 PM

You people type too fast…

youngTXcon on March 14, 2009 at 7:48 PM

sorry Getaclue the chew toy is afoot so I get frisky…

sven10077 on March 14, 2009 at 7:49 PM

sven10077 on March 14, 2009 at 7:47 PM

Sure, if you ignore reality I guess.

getalife on March 14, 2009 at 7:50 PM

Did anyone else think the cartoon fox Maid Marian in the Disney version was, well, foxy?

boko fittleworth on March 14, 2009 at 7:50 PM

I still hope that one day Basil Rathbone will run Errol Flynn through. He could have, you know. In real life, Rathbone was an expert fencer who frequently taught his co-stars how to sword fight. Then they’d kill him once the cameras rolled.

One the many reasons the final sword fight between ‘Guy of Gisborne’ and ‘Robin Hood’ was that Errol Flynn (when he was sober) was also an expert fencer. He and Rathbone went toe to toe in several films in a magnificent display of fencing. If you notice in the film, their swords are awfully light (indeed Flynn’s sword is bent) the better to fence in true swashbuckling style.

SeniorD on March 14, 2009 at 7:51 PM

Did anyone else think the cartoon fox Maid Marian in the Disney version was, well, foxy?

boko fittleworth on March 14, 2009 at 7:50 PM

indeed….nice eyes and a heart of gold….

(thus Robin simply had to steal it)

sven10077 on March 14, 2009 at 7:51 PM

Buy buy buy!

getalife on Mar 14,2008 at 7:43PM.

getalife:How about,putting your money,(politely)where
your mouth is, on that one!

And whats your thoughts on Robin Hood,do you not
agree,that Obama would be the evil tax collecter
King,robbing the taxe’s from the poor,to give to
the homelss and destitute!

What say you?

canopfor on March 14, 2009 at 7:52 PM

boko fittleworth on March 14, 2009 at 7:50 PM
I always liked the voice of the male fox…but I’m female.

youngTXcon on March 14, 2009 at 7:52 PM

If you want a good example of a modern-day Robin Hood and re-distribution, look no further than the State of Texas. The so-called Robin Hood Law here in Texas requires that a portion of the property taxes collected to support schools in ‘rich’ districts, be re-distributed to ‘poor’ school districts elsewhere in the state. In other words, most of the redistributed wealth goes to the border region here in Texas.

To those who may have some romantic notions of Robin Hood and his band of Merry Men, I have two words: Bite Me!!
There is nothing romantic about watching your hard earned money going to those who would like to see you as poor as they are so they can feel good about themselves.

c3ichief on March 14, 2009 at 7:53 PM

Sure, if you ignore reality I guess.

getalife on March 14, 2009 at 7:50 PM

check your rhetoric fancy nancy…

“worst economy since the depression” for the last eight years was a fantasy…it was the worst since ’86 which was a joke compared to the ’70s….

hell if we’d let interest rates rise to where they belong we’d be fine inside of a year.

sven10077 on March 14, 2009 at 7:53 PM

canopfor on March 14, 2009 at 7:52 PM

I think going back to Clinton taxes is good but rush will have to pay 1.5 million more each year which is great.

getalife on March 14, 2009 at 7:54 PM

Kevin Costner was the worst Robin Hood in entertainment history?

The guy couldn’t even manage a consistent fake English accent.

The Disney fox was much, much better.

29Victor on March 14, 2009 at 7:54 PM

I think going back to Clinton taxes is good but rush will have to pay 1.5 million more each year which is great.

getalife on March 14, 2009 at 7:54 PM

ah the heady aroma of class jealousy, come to think of it it smells like *hit….

sven10077 on March 14, 2009 at 7:55 PM

ah the heady aroma of class jealousy, come to think of it it smells like *hit….

sven10077 on March 14, 2009 at 7:55 PM

Karma.

getalife on March 14, 2009 at 7:56 PM

SeniorD on March 14, 2009 at 7:51 PM
The man who trained Errol Flynn said that Errol Flynn made sword-fighting look good for the camera, but Basil Rathbone was the better swordsman.

In fact, showy sword-fighting is called “Flynning”:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Flynning.

youngTXcon on March 14, 2009 at 7:58 PM

well foxy?

bobo fiddleworth on Mar 14,2009 at 7:50PM.

bobo fiddleworth:

Yes,somehere between Lady in the ‘Lady and the Tramp’
and Halley Barry in Cat Women,strutt’n roof top to roof
top!Hehe:)

canopfor on March 14, 2009 at 8:00 PM

Kevin Costner was the worst Robin Hood in entertainment history?

Pretty much. I have a feeling that “Men in Tights” is probably more historically accurate than we think.

vcferlita on March 14, 2009 at 8:08 PM

Sure, if you ignore reality I guess.

getalife on March 14, 2009 at 7:50 PM

Well since your obsessed with “reality” lets get real.

The economy is in shambles, The US is still at war, There is little tangible evidence that Obama’s Election really changed our status in the world other than worthless platitues from eurodramists and embolding our enemies and finally Obama himself has shown he is more interested in pagents than leadership.

Getting a democratic congress to spend taxpayer’s money on wild schemes is not an acomplishment.

William Amos on March 14, 2009 at 8:12 PM

Getting a democratic congress to spend taxpayer’s money on wild schemes is not an acomplishment.

William Amos on March 14, 2009 at 8:12 PM

it’s like giving Ogabe a medal for breathing…..

“the Barack O’bama Involuntary Muscle Reaction Gold Coin now just 19.95999995….”

sven10077 on March 14, 2009 at 8:15 PM

In Robin and Miram….

Sven 10077 on Mar 14,2009 at 7:46PM.
——————-

Re Sean Connery:Robin and Miram

youngTXcon on Mar 14,2009 at 7:47PM.
——————————

Sven10077 and youngTXcon:

Thank-you for the info,I seen it years ago,sounds like a
good movie to watch later,:)

canopfor on March 14, 2009 at 8:23 PM

The “French Normans” had only been “French” for a century or so; They were Normans from “North Men”, as in they were Danes that had settled on the French coast (Normandy). So they were only a few generations removed from Vikings. as for England vs. Britain, the ancient term Britons refers to the people that inhabited England prior to the Saxon invasions of the 5th century.

Frozen Tex on March 14, 2009 at 7:29 PM

Exactly. I think the other guy was thinking of the Bretons, who are Celtic as the Britons were.

darclon on March 14, 2009 at 8:24 PM

William Amos on March 14, 2009 at 8:12 PM

The economy is in recovery.

I just read the Pentagon is rethinking the wars since it has lasted longer than WWII and much more costly. Then they have to address the no bid contract fraud wasting billions.

If you want to get real with the inherited debt of 1.4 trillion and two ongoing wars with an economic collapse thrown in, yeah it is a horrible blow to our superpower status.

getalife on March 14, 2009 at 8:26 PM

The economy is in recovery.

I just read the Pentagon is rethinking the wars since it has lasted longer than WWII and much more costly. Then they have to address the no bid contract fraud wasting billions.

If you want to get real with the inherited debt of 1.4 trillion and two ongoing wars with an economic collapse thrown in, yeah it is a horrible blow to our superpower status.

getalife on March 14, 2009 at 8:26 PM

Market’s down 18% still there nancy…

you’re just like the gambler who spends 1000 bucks to “win a 100″

“I’m on my way back baby!”

Yeah like I said Nancy you’ll be looking on this as the “2d peak” once Congress starts screwing with the profitability of investing….

sven10077 on March 14, 2009 at 8:29 PM

The economy is in recovery.
getalife on March 14, 2009 at 8:26 PM

Proof? Or just one week of the stock market going up?

youngTXcon on March 14, 2009 at 8:30 PM

I would argue that keeping the Dow at 7000 and unemployment below 10 % is quite an accomplishment taking in account of the inherited mess I listed.

Today, the President addressed another failed agency, the FDA. Reforming one agency at a time is another inherited mess of our broken government.

So yeah, lets get real about what the President has inherited from your hero w.

getalife on March 14, 2009 at 8:34 PM

I would argue that keeping the Dow at 7000 and unemployment below 10 % is quite an accomplishment taking in account of the inherited mess I listed.

Today, the President addressed another failed agency, the FDA. Reforming one agency at a time is another inherited mess of our broken government.

So yeah, lets get real about what the President has inherited from your hero w.

getalife on March 14, 2009 at 8:34 PM

nice of you to argue that the GOP should get Congress back since oversight through funding was their job as the opposition centre of power the last two years….

oh I’m sorry you were saying???

Ogabe ran as “Superman” but changed into “Clark Kent” just as soon as the “Office of the President-Elect” opened up….

sven10077 on March 14, 2009 at 8:36 PM

and by “their” I mean SanFran Nan and Harry Reid….

you know the “most ethical Congress EVAH”….

tell you what sport we’ll let you keep Ogabe for sentimental reasons after we get the house back…

sven10077 on March 14, 2009 at 8:38 PM

Hmm, I though Robin Hood was around the time of Richard Lionheart and John I. That would put him at 1200-ish, not the 15th century….

WitchDoctor on March 14, 2009 at 8:40 PM

getalife on March 14, 2009 at 8:34 PM
So where did Barry get this magical wand to command the market & unemployment to stay steady? Oh, wait-he must have done it with his magical hands, which are allowing the sea waters to recede & the planet to heal.

Seriously, you sound like you would give the mythical Atlas credit for holding the world on his shoulders.

youngTXcon on March 14, 2009 at 8:40 PM

Sorry, that last post was for the one that wanted to get real William Amos on March 14, 2009 at 8:12 PM

getalife on March 14, 2009 at 8:40 PM

WitchDoctor on March 14, 2009 at 8:40 PM
Depends on the myth. Some time ago, consensus was that if he existed, he must lived during the reign of Henry II, Richard & John’s father.

youngTXcon on March 14, 2009 at 8:42 PM

WitchDoctor on March 14, 2009 at 8:40 PM
Also, Richard the Lionheart lived in the late 1100 & early 1200s.

youngTXcon on March 14, 2009 at 8:44 PM

There are always many more who consider themselves “poor” than consider themselves rich. Anyone who proclaims that they are going to take from the “haves” and give more to the “have nots” is guaranteed to win a popularity contest. Anyone opposing them is going to lose popularity. The Democrats took that lesson from the Communists to heart.

Raid the treasury and distribute it out. That will get you elected every time.

crosspatch on March 14, 2009 at 8:48 PM

I would really doubt that a note by a priest would be representative of most of the people in Britain. In the classic tales of Robin Hood, bishops and abbots are as likely to be targets as tax collectors. They would not be supporters of Robin Hood.

I love the story of Robin Hood. Robbing from the rich to give to the poor has no place in the real world, though.

Now, my feeling is that most of the popularity of Robin Hood had to do with the fact that the common people of England didn’t exactly feel they were treated fairly by their government. Therefore, Robin Hood was their champion. Few of them probably ever received money from him, but probably knew of well-deserving people who had some help. If he can truly be placed in the historical context of just after the invasion by William the Conqueror, then it would be understandable that the common people would have resented these strange new overlords who spoke a different language, and were much more rigid and harsh feudalists than the Angles and Saxons.

But they wouldn’t have liked Robin Hood primarily for the help he gave them, since as an outlaw, he would have been able to offer very little help. They would be far more likely to love the fact that he discomfited their overlords, often mocking them with some particular feat.

People love seeing arrogant you-know-whats get humiliated.

ThereGoesTheNeighborhood on March 14, 2009 at 8:55 PM

People love seeing arrogant you-know-whats get humiliated.

ThereGoesTheNeighborhood on March 14, 2009 at 8:55 PM

I’m counting on it in ’10 and ’12….

sven10077 on March 14, 2009 at 8:59 PM

ED,heres another Hood article!

Was Robin really just another hood?

http://www.startribune.com

canopfor on March 14, 2009 at 9:02 PM

Robin Hood and his merry men were thieves and should have been hanged, or were they?

Maxx on March 14, 2009 at 9:12 PM

Maxx on March 14, 2009 at 9:12 PM
Not if you read Ivanhoe (Sir Walter Scott) or Howard Pyle”s Robin Hood. ;0)

youngTXcon on March 14, 2009 at 9:31 PM

“Also, Richard the Lionheart lived in the late 1100 & early 1200s.”

That’s what I said :)

WitchDoctor on March 14, 2009 at 9:39 PM

As I understand it (confirmed by Errol Flynn) Robin Hood stole from the GOVERNMENT and gave BACK to the TAXPAYERS!

stonyloam on March 14, 2009 at 9:43 PM

WitchDoctor on March 14, 2009 at 9:39 PM
Yeah, repetition has been a trend on this thread–but when hasn’t it been? ;)

youngTXcon on March 14, 2009 at 9:44 PM

There you have it — Robin Hood is Hamas! Look, can we at least agree that Kevin Costner was the worst Robin Hood in entertainment history?

FIFY! It is still one of my favorite movies of all time thanks to Morgan Freeman and Alan Rickman.

Laura in Maryland on March 14, 2009 at 10:13 PM

We are capitalists in good times but socialists in bad.

getalife on March 14, 2009 at 7:46 PM

We? Where do you get this ‘we’ crap? You have a mouse in your pocket? I guess the reason you can’t say ‘I’ is that you have never been a capitalist and you want to drag some us who are capitalists down to your socialist level.

A true capitalist is a capitalist in good times and bad recognizing that money can be made in any part of an economic cycle.

docdave on March 14, 2009 at 10:23 PM

http://www.elpasotimes.com/newupdated/ci_11911255

RealDemocrat on March 14, 2009 at 10:17 PM

If all they got was 1500 they are in trouble…..that’d barely show up at the Cielo Vista mall as “mallrats gone wild”…..

sven10077 on March 14, 2009 at 10:24 PM

sven10077 on March 14, 2009 at 10:24 PM
Indeed. The kids at my alma mater aren’t allowed to go on their Mexico trip b/c of the violence. You would think the people of El Paso would turn up in far greater numbers…

youngTXcon on March 14, 2009 at 10:39 PM

Given the premise of a tyrannical state, how is Robin Hood cast so easily as a left-winger? Isn’t this the sort of thing Rand would have wished kulaks had done in her poor, abused Russia?

Wasn’t this exactly the point of her character, Ragnar Donneskjold? And the medieval rich (i.e., the nobility) were the government.

Nosferightu on March 14, 2009 at 11:18 PM

Robin Hood took from the King. That made him a tax revolter right?

Obama Hood steals from everybody so… it’s like that.

Mojave Mark on March 14, 2009 at 11:48 PM

and became the world’s first populist

Forgive me if it’s mentioned earlier in the thread..

I’d say the Tiberius and Gaius Gracchi had Robin beat by about 1700 years.

Limerick on March 15, 2009 at 12:11 AM

“When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.”
-Benjamin Franklin

“A wise and frugal government … shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.”
-Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address, March 4, 1801

“The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence. If ‘Thou shalt not covet’ and ‘Thou shalt not steal’ were not commandments of Heaven, they must be made inviolable precepts in every society before it can be civilized or made free.”
-John Adams, A Defense of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America, 1787

“…[T]he government of the United States is a definite government, confined to specified objects. It is not like the state governments, whose powers are more general. Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government.”
-James Madison

JellyToast on March 15, 2009 at 12:17 AM

I would argue that keeping the Dow at 7000 and unemployment below 10 % is quite an accomplishment taking in account of the inherited mess I listed.

Today, the President addressed another failed agency, the FDA. Reforming one agency at a time is another inherited mess of our broken government.

So yeah, lets get real about what the President has inherited from your hero w.

getalife on March 14, 2009 at 8:34 PM

So you would argue that that the Dow Jones IA being almost 1500 points lower than it was on Inauguration Day is a great showing? LOL.

You are aware that by all reports, over 50% of the DJIA increase last Thursday and Friday were short trades. Not a healthy sign-especially if you are trying to suggest that the market jumped because of some sort of amorphous “good feeling” engendered by the presence of Mr. Obama on the throne.

In fact that volume of short trades suggests quite the opposite.

If you think that the spending that is to result from the Stimulus bill (none of which has hit the economy yet, and won’t for some time) is promoting some sort of confidence among private investors-I’ve got news for you-it’s not even promoting confidence in the governmental sector, as far as being a curative for the economy.

Even the true believers where I work don’t harbor any illusions that the “Stimulus” is going to actually do any “stimulating”. And, frankly, they don’t care. They couldn’t care less what happens in the private economy. Furthermore, they don’t even care that the Stimulus dough isn’t even being efficiently spent for governmental purposes.

The simple fact that more money is coming out of the private economy into the governmental sector, results in a concommital increase in economic (and societal) control given to the government.

That is the whole point of this exercise. Even the true believers (at least those with a minimum of a room temperature IQ) understand this, and in their more honest moments, admit it.

So yeah Mr. Getalife, Buy, buy, buy. If you like throwing your money down a hole.

And by the way Mr. Getalife, the 1980′s called. They want their screen name back.

Dreadnought on March 15, 2009 at 12:49 AM

Another way of saying it’s a bear rally.

Watch out below…

trigon on March 15, 2009 at 1:04 AM

Does this mean that the Dems in congress are thinking of wearing those green tights?

Bawney Frank in green tights…..my eyes! my eyes!

Limerick on March 15, 2009 at 1:07 AM

OT, But it sorta goes with the Robin Hood picture.
The bow and arrow may be the only thing left to shoot.

http://www.rense.com/general85/obs.htm

Texyank on March 15, 2009 at 1:08 AM

Anyone embodied by Kevin Costner is suspect.

BHO Jonestown on March 15, 2009 at 1:55 AM

Dreadnought Rules.

IlikedAUH2O on March 15, 2009 at 2:40 AM

Oh FFS people. Not everything needs to relate to politics.

Robin Hood was a fun story, little more. Even if we analyze it on an overly serious level, he was a freakin’ landowner who’s land was stolen by a corrupt state. He started as Robin of Locksley right?

TheUnrepentantGeek on March 15, 2009 at 2:42 AM

Must be a slow news day, unable to find attacks on our President.
getalife on March 14, 2009 at 7:41 PM

Oh, we support the President. We just don’t support his illegal war (on us).

Kevroy on March 15, 2009 at 2:56 AM

getalife on March 14, 2009 at 8:34 PM

Careful there, don’t want you to throw your back out moving those goalposts. (Who says conservatives don’t know how to show concern for the plight of others?)

Blacksmith on March 15, 2009 at 3:10 AM

Pretty much every attempt to analyze (or hijack) a historical figure for modern application is a grandiose exercise in logical overextension.

Like this one.

Merovign on March 15, 2009 at 5:36 AM

I fail to grasp the moral ambiguity. The Commandment is Thou shalt not steal. I see no exception clauses having to do with tyrannical governments or the rich.

rightwingprof on March 15, 2009 at 6:08 AM

The economy is in recovery.

getalife on March 14, 2009 at 8:26 PM

Wow. And to think just last month Obama used the word CRISIS 27 times in one speech. He’s either lying now or was lying then.

Which is it?

angryed on March 15, 2009 at 7:02 AM

The economy is in recovery.

getalife on March 14, 2009 at 8:26 PM

Wow. And to think just last month Obama used the word CRISIS 27 times in one speech. He’s either lying now or was lying then.

Which is it?

angryed on March 15, 2009 at 7:02 AM

,or sumpin like dat!!:)

Cabinet position??

oldleprechaun on March 15, 2009 at 8:03 AM

He’s either lying now or was lying then.
Which is it?

Both?

oldleprechaun on March 15, 2009 at 8:05 AM

A side note in an old manuscript? Issued by a monk who probably just had his Bishop robbed by Robin Hood for the 5 time? So the monk eats gruel YET again!

Gee you think this entry might be the same as watching a PETA commercial for broccoli?

Dr. Dog on March 15, 2009 at 8:17 AM

Another take on Robin Hood is Parke Godwin’s novels Sherwood and Robin And The King. They set Robin Hood at the same time as the Conquest (The King is William the Conqueror).

If you read some of the records from that time, you will find instances of whole villages refusing to testify against the Robin Hood type outlaws.

SDN on March 15, 2009 at 10:45 AM

The whole “Robin Hood the Socialism” meme is a popular myth (used in the indoctrination school system) to promote the virtues of gubmint taking and giving.

What they don’t tell you is that, according to legend, he actually was returning their own money that had been raped from them in punitive taxes. Feudal times, remember? Serfdom (aka slavery)?

Maybe his real name was Ragnar Hood?

LimeyGeek on March 15, 2009 at 10:48 AM

I remember the subtext of the Robin Hood legend was that that Prince John and the Sheriff of Nottingham were corrupt politicians who kept raising taxes on the workers. Robin Hood was stealing from those who took and/or profited by plunder from the fruit of the labor of others and giving back to the taxpayers.
Seems the BHO Admin, lefty Congress, et al are the new Prince Johns and Sheriffs of Nottingham.
Bastiat was right “The law perverted!”

Amendment X on March 15, 2009 at 10:49 AM

Feudal times, remember? Serfdom (aka slavery)?
LimeyGeek on March 15, 2009 at 10:48 AM

Limey- I remember an analysis of the serf’s economic status.
They serfs paid less in taxes than the average American!

Amendment X on March 15, 2009 at 10:53 AM

Limey- I remember an analysis of the serf’s economic status.
They serfs paid less in taxes than the average American!

Amendment X on March 15, 2009 at 10:53 AM

I imagine it is really quite hard to draw meaningful comparisons across such expanses of time and civilization.

Being a serf sucked, to put it mildly. I’m pretty sure every single one of them would trade places with any American in a heartbeat ;)

LimeyGeek on March 15, 2009 at 11:07 AM

One thing I think you might have missed about the Robin Hood analogy, Ed. The Medieval taxing system was not made up like it is today.

In England, the rich were those that owned land. The King (or in this case, Prince John) taxed land holders, not necessarily income. The land holders (aka, lords) put a tax on those residing within their lands, and that was their main income. In a time of war (the crusades that Richard was fighting in) the taxes were pretty steep. And one of Robin’s supposed objections was that John had raised the taxes even higher than what Richard had because he was building his own personal army to suplot his cousin.

In this case, Robbing the rich was robbing the land lords that imposed taxes on the serfs working their lands. Whether or not the burglaries were oof royalties and tributes during their transport to John, was hard to tell. But Locksley WAS a noble, his father was a lord. He had fought beside Richard, and the story maintains that he was a loyalist to the crown. I find it hard to believe that he would come back to England and burglarize the poor in the Kings name. It’s possible, but just find it hard to believe.

In either case, you can always look at it this way, one national leader started a war in the middle east. A deep, dark, bloody war. In his absence, a lesser official with very little ruling experience stepped into his place and started raising taxes to the point of severe oppression. A hero stood up to him and led a small, lightly equipped army in opposition to the new tyrant and all the lords that allied themselves to him.

Kinda sounds like D.C. now doesn’t it?

Bo on March 15, 2009 at 11:11 AM

Frozen Tex on March 14, 2009 at 7:29 PM
In 449, the Brits hired the Saxons to fight to the Picts, the Scots, & the Irish. So, IMO, they were kind of asking to get taken over…

youngTXcon on March 14, 2009 at 7:41 PM

Didn’t get very far, did they?

SeniorD on March 15, 2009 at 11:47 AM

Look, can we at least agree that Kevin Costner was the worst Robin Hood in entertainment history?

We can agree that Costner was the worst at playing anything in entertainment history. Kevin Costner acts as Kevin Costner playing a character – great actors make you believe you are seeing the character but watching Costner act, all you see is Costner.

PatMac on March 15, 2009 at 11:59 AM

Look, can we at least agree that Kevin Costner was the worst Robin Hood in entertainment history?

Yup. And I for one think that Errol Flynn (his stage laugh aside) was certainly the best — but he wouldn’t have gotten there without Basil Rathbone, Claude Rains, and Melville Cooper as his foils.

And the Disney version is better, too. Costner gets upstaged by a cellulose fox and bear. Gotta love it.

unclesmrgol on March 15, 2009 at 12:13 PM

This issue, like most, really isn’t that hard, if you stick to some core values.

Stealing is wrong.

Stealing from the poor is wrong. Stealing from the rich is just as wrong. Stealing from the government (whose money is property of the governed) is also wrong. When the government abuses it’s power to steal your money, that’s also wrong.

Feel free to call me simplistic. If you think everything is relative, then send me your address, and I’ll send an EXTREMELY POOR person to come take your money ;-)

hawksruleva on March 15, 2009 at 1:12 PM

Being a serf sucked, to put it mildly. I’m pretty sure every single one of them would trade places with any American in a heartbeat ;)

LimeyGeek on March 15, 2009 at 11:07 AM

Probably. But the things they would LIKE about our society have little to do with government. They’d like the abundance of food, time-saving devices, and the increased freedom that our society allows. The first 2 things are provided by the markets. The last comes as a result of our adoption of a Constitution that declares that government power is limited, and only exists inasmuch as the people voluntarily give powers to the government.

How long will we be able to call our government “limited”?

hawksruleva on March 15, 2009 at 1:19 PM

My family came from Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire and the story of Robin Hood is a little overblown. What we understood was yes there was a philanthropist that lived by then, but that he did not steal from the rich to give to the poor, but asked for donations

ConservativePartyNow on March 15, 2009 at 1:19 PM

I always thought that Sean Connery was great as Robin in “Robin and Marian” with Audrey Hepburn.

LimeyGeek on March 15, 2009 at 2:03 PM

http://www.vdare.com/buchanan/090312_sellout.htm

RealDemocrat on March 15, 2009 at 2:08 PM

petunia on March 14, 2009 at 7:09 PM

Seeing I’m a descendant of King John I am quite aware of how history has lionized Richard at the expense of his brother.

Everyone always forgets the second part of the story. In the Robin of Loxley myth, Richard returns to England, sets John Lackland to rights and everyone lives happily ever after…except, Richard is killed a few years later in France, John becomes King, is so heavy handed that his Baron’s rebelled and forced King John to sign the Magna Carta in 1215 which leads directly to our pre-Obama Freedom and Constitution.

JIMV on March 15, 2009 at 2:26 PM

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