Quote of the day
posted at 10:00 pm on March 13, 2009 by Allahpundit
“Thomas Mills also said he was ‘concerned about the children’s religious-based science curriculum’ and that he wants ‘the children to be exposed to mainstream science, even if they eventually choose to believe creationism over evolution.’
In a verbal ruling, Mangum said the children should go to public school.
‘He was upfront and said that, ‘It’s not about religion.’ But yet when it came down to his ruling and reasons why, ‘He said this would be a good opportunity for the children to be tested in the beliefs that I have taught them,” Venessa Mills said.”
Blowback
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However, are you certain as to their place of origin – before said Ice Age shifted them?
OldEnglish on March 14, 2009 at 3:02 AM
I can’t think for him, but I’ll speak just as forcefully against any religion’s tenets of faith being represented as scientific fact in our public schools. If Christians feel persecuted, it’s only because they account for the majority of the people in this country. Your Gaia cult example doesn’t work because not enough people take that system seriously and attempt to use government spread it.
Sign of the Dollar on March 14, 2009 at 3:05 AM
See it is this level of Ignorance that costs this country so much time and effort.
You see, Moron, the First Amendment protects people like “Christians” from people like “the Majority” from persecution. That is why we have Inalienable Rights written in the First Amendment, Second Amendment, Etc. Those stupid old Christian white guys. I believe the First Amendment says that you can believe and practice as you believe, teach it to your children, etc. Even if your religion says that guys who use other men’s elimination organs for pleasure are sinful, let alone if they think all species came from a big Boat after a super flood. As long as you don’t try to impose those beliefs on me. The Atheist tries to say it is “Aliens” that started life on this planet, or “Crystals”. No one can explain the origins of life, even the Athiests. (Watch “Expelled- No thought Allowed” Good Movie.) I watched it as a non-believer and found it enlightening. This is why vouchers for Public Education is so hated by Liberals. They want everyone to think like them.
As to your rejection of the Gaia Cult example, what would you call the Global Warming fiasco if not a State sponsored religion for which we must all atone? How about the Global Cooling Myth or is that now “Old Testament”? Acid Rain belief that cost us $500,000,000 to prove a lie? No drilling where we know there is oil to Save the Earth, but it’s OK to buy it from other people halfway around the world? Carbon Credits? Cap and Trade Tax? All tenants of the Church of the Earth of which man is a Fallen Being. Al Gore (who failed out of Divinity school) is perfect as an overstuffed Bishop. Suffer and Recycle and yea shall be saved!
GunRunner on March 14, 2009 at 4:42 AM
Are. You. Insane? Taliban? or a combination?
There is no place on this site for that type of comment. Seriously.
Oh no...Sand People on March 14, 2009 at 5:01 AM
That’s ridiculous. I’m Jewish and I find it outrageous the way that Christians, and Christianity, are being attacked left and right in this country. You’d have to be blind not to see it.
This is even loonier. Enough of the “right” people believe this stupidity [global warming and other assorted nutcase enviro cults] to force massive changes in all of our lives – and certainly not for the better, and certainly not in accordance with the Constitution.
progressoverpeace on March 14, 2009 at 5:59 AM
I’ve said this before, if you haven’t seen Ben Stein’s film “Expelled: no intelligence allowed”, rent, purchase, or borrow a copy and watch it. It address this tyranny.
oldleprechaun on March 14, 2009 at 6:56 AM
This is indeed tyranny. Government has no legitimate authority over the education of one’s children. Even if she is teaching her children that the earth is flat and the moon is made of green cheese, parents are sovereign. It would be a terrible shame for her children, and they would be ill-equipped for the world, but that does not change the principle. Virtually every governmental power grab can be “justified” as “for the children.”
DrMagnolias on March 14, 2009 at 7:24 AM
Like, ummm, teaching manmade global warming in gubmit schools?
I’m betting Obama-Reid-Pelosi will do to homeschooling what they’re doing to secret ballots in union votes and free speech in talk radio . Homeschooling will be regulated vitually out of existence, via strings attached to federal funding.
petefrt on March 14, 2009 at 7:39 AM
Bravo.
Prime example of the original “Forgotten Man” issue.
maverick muse on March 14, 2009 at 7:46 AM
Hey, I’m agnostic and I couldn’t agree with you more.
I’m grateful for our/my Judeo-Christian heritage, as it has enabled the West to become great.
Probably more important, I know that after they shut down the Jews and Christians, they’ll come after me, ‘cuz I’m a MGW denier.
petefrt on March 14, 2009 at 7:46 AM
So what’s next? Do we force Hassidic Jews to send their children to public schools? I’m not sure, but I do not believe evolution is taught in the yeshiva.
Naturally, Muslim home-schooling and the curricula in most American Muslim schools is perfectly fine.
I do not believe in the literal story of the creation as told in Genesis. But let’s leave people alone to do as they see fit and as protected under the Constitution. And in any case, the public school system these days is the perfect example of de-evolution.
J.J. Sefton on March 14, 2009 at 7:55 AM
Absolutely anti-freedom. Welcome to the (Obama) machine.
Black Adam on March 14, 2009 at 8:28 AM
This is a palate cleanser for Allah but a nightmare for beleivers. I can see this becoming an Elian Gonsales (sp?) episode in the near future with teachers (read: NEA gestapos) in riot gear taking the child forceably from the home.
Fuquay Steve on March 14, 2009 at 8:32 AM
Out on a limb here–but I don’t think that this judge had the right to determine this. I think all that was in his purview were the custody arrangements for each parent. The schooling decisions will fall to the parent where the children live during school hours. Think that this parent can easily get this overturned with a good lawyer in another venue and should. The judge was not within his legal parameters.
jeanie on March 14, 2009 at 8:41 AM
I would add that it is not so much the faith that is being attacked as the morality.
Count to 10 on March 14, 2009 at 8:45 AM
I’ll pass…please leave the Christian bashing over at LGF.
melachiro on March 14, 2009 at 8:48 AM
That is why we homeschoolers avoid government anything. We don’t want some hidden string being revealed and binding us.
If you aren’t convicted that it is your responsibility to educate your children, but would like to “get your kids back” or just out of the mindless indoctrination camps … I would encourage you to home school your children. My kids have never seen the inside of a public school and it is one of the best decisions my wife and I made.
If you would like to know more … this is a good place to start http://www.hslda.org/ … learn about the legal side.
AZ_Redneck on March 14, 2009 at 8:59 AM
Well, it sounds like they are old enough. I hope the kids survive their merciless persecution by the pagans, apostates and athiests with their beliefs intact.
Good luck kids and may God be with you during the judge’s grand test.
Dusty on March 14, 2009 at 9:02 AM
There was a bad decision in CA last year. Essentially, a judge tried to outlaw home schooling from the bench. It was overturned later in the year. Nonetheless, the day after the decision .. child protective services and truant officers attempted to “round up” the kids and get them into the system.
Many were met at the street by armed parents denying the state access to the children.
AZ_Redneck on March 14, 2009 at 9:06 AM
If mohammedian parents can send their future terrorists to Saudi funded mosques and madrases to learn about how everyone who doesn’t bow down 5 times a day and worship the moon god “allah” and his pedophile prophet are subhuman and should be killed, why can’t Christian parents teach Creationism?
Neither creationism NOR evolution alone is the answer. Nor can either be proven conclusively as THE answer to everything.
That evolution happens is obvious and proven. But is that how everything began? I happen to believe not. There is too much order to the universe for it not to have been set in motion by God. And when I say God I’m not talking about the one mohammed supposedly revealed.
wildcat84 on March 14, 2009 at 9:07 AM
in virginia, the judge could certainly decide this. this decision, on its face, is not unreasonable. do i like it, hell no.
kelley in virginia on March 14, 2009 at 9:13 AM
Decisions like this prove that we no longer have a Republic. We are ruled by black robed monarchs.
wildcat84 on March 14, 2009 at 9:16 AM
TheMightyQuinn
Uh..no, this does not happen in Germany.
And, yes, TheMightyQuinn, fiction is stranger than truth.
albill on March 14, 2009 at 9:22 AM
This is a disgrace. These thee children were performing beautifully, in their studies, under their mother’s instructions. This is ALL about anti-Christian sentiment.
…A North Carolina judge has ordered three children to attend public schools this fall because the homeschooling their mother has provided over the last four years needs to be “challenged.”
The children, however, have tested above their grade levels – by as much as two years…
…”This judge clearly took personal issue with Venessa’s stance on education and faith, even though her children are doing great. If her right to homeschool can be taken away so easily, what will this mean for homeschoolers state wide, or even nationally?” Williams asked…
…According to Williams’ website, the judge also ordered a mental health evaluation for the mother – but not the father – as part of the divorce proceedings, in what Williams described as an attack on the “mother’s conservative Christian beliefs.”…Thank God for the Alliance Defense Fund.
The full article explains ALL the facts, in context.
Google: Judge orders homeschoolers into public district classrooms
sinsing on March 14, 2009 at 9:25 AM
[kelley in virginia on March 14, 2009 at 9:13 AM]
Kelley, read this post by Eugene Volokh. At the end there are three more related to this subject, i.e., homeschooling v public schooling a/o home schooling and custody cases.
Dusty on March 14, 2009 at 9:33 AM
[Oh no...Sand People on March 14, 2009 at 5:01 AM]
Ditto.
Dusty on March 14, 2009 at 9:40 AM
You, sir, are ignorant.
jimmy2shoes on March 14, 2009 at 9:54 AM
you know its ironic that darwiniacs say things like that, where the truth is if they really believed their theory, they wouldn’t treat the sick or the old…let em die….weed out the weak…as darwin said:
eugenics, as well as racism are inherent in the theory of evolution…
right4life on March 14, 2009 at 10:28 AM
this idiot is as qualified to be a judge as obama is to be POTUS
UNREPENTANT CONSERVATIVE CAPITOLIST on March 14, 2009 at 10:29 AM
Hi Moby.
DrSteve on March 14, 2009 at 11:28 AM
Yes that is a definition of Cult. What part of that definition applies in this case? Are you saying that you believe that mainstream Christianity is a cult? If you believe that then you are misapplying the the word and you are ignoring its definition.
Maxx on March 14, 2009 at 11:33 AM
You should be banned for that comment. You better hope Allah doesn’t see it. I won’t write to him this time and point it out to him. But if I ever see anything like that out of you again I will.
Maxx on March 14, 2009 at 11:39 AM
I think drawing the wrong kind of attention to this site is exactly why he did it.
DrSteve on March 14, 2009 at 11:41 AM
I put that up there mainly to counter your assertion that cult means Satan worship or human sacrifice. That’s not necessarily the case. I suspect that the first part of the definition applies here.
I do not have enough information to judge whether the mother is involved with mainstream Christianity or some splinter group that goes off the deep end.
backwoods conservative on March 14, 2009 at 11:44 AM
TheMightyQuinn is banned.
Allahpundit on March 14, 2009 at 11:47 AM
No kidding. They were forcefully ‘weeded out’.
http://dequalss.com/2009/03/14/the-obama-deception-full/
lobosan5 on March 14, 2009 at 11:50 AM
Up until this year, I homeschooled my daughter. She is now in 6th grade and goes to our local public school. I had her tested last spring (along with other homeschooled students) with our state testing for her grade. She tested at high school level and two sections were recorded as PHS (Post High School). I was burned out and she wanted more social interaction with her peers, so we let her go to school. Yesterday, I received a notice from her middle school that she had missed “excessive days”. She has missed 10 total since August (3 days because her grandparents passed away and the rest were legimate sick days where she had a fever). If she misses anymore days, I have to have a doctor’s note saying she is sick. I’m not sure what they’ll do to me if she doesn’t. Report me to CPS I guess, because as her mother, I’m too stupid to know when my daughter is sick and should be kept home from school – I have to have a doctor’s note saying my daughter doesn’t feel well enough to go to school. When does the goverment oppression end?
tnmama on March 14, 2009 at 11:54 AM
There sure are a lot of Christian Taliban on this site. You have a lot in common with them.
Why are you not also attacking the heretic Galileo and his silly little claim that all does not revolve around the earth?
deewhybee on March 14, 2009 at 11:59 AM
There are similar policies in effect in the workplace in the private sector. That’s not something that’s limited to the government. Excessive absenteeism is a red flag in school or the workplace. In both cases the people in charge are looking for verification that the absences are justified and not the result of undesirable and detrimental behavior.
backwoods conservative on March 14, 2009 at 12:00 PM
tnmama, I homeschooled my kid in the 80′s&90s. We were turned in to the DSS by a concerned neighbor who felt I wasn’t socializing my kid appropriately! We endured a year of hell & weekly ‘visits’ from the Public School SS which stopped very abruptly when the school officer had a death in the family.
This is why ‘they’ fear HomeSchoolers.
This young man is a homeschooler:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vz1TVpwme0
The FUTURE is really in their hands.
lobosan5 on March 14, 2009 at 12:09 PM
Effect, meet cause. You guys working together?
DrSteve on March 14, 2009 at 12:14 PM
What are normally referred to as “cults” usually do involve some kind of occultism or devil worship, the dictionary definition is lacking by not pointing out this real world fact. The Jim Jones people were a cult, the “HEAVEN’S GATE” group was referred to as a cult, then there were the recent Satanic Cult murders in Yaroslavi Russia. So the term cult applies to groups that encourage suicide for straying members and sometime actual Satanic worship. This is what the definition means when it uses the word “extreme” and extreme does not apply to Christian moms who home-school.
That’s the only things the article tells us about this woman is that she is a Christian and she home-schools. If in your mind that somehow makes her extreme as to place her in a “cult” category then you had better realize that you are living in a nation that is dominated by a cult. Your assertion is silly and only shows your bias against Christians.
Maxx on March 14, 2009 at 12:23 PM
I cannot believe that 10 days out of 180 school days is regarded as “excessive”. She’s not being paid to be there (as with a job) and she’s an A student, so I’m not sure what the problem is. She has had a written excuse from home every time she’s been absent, so it’s not like she’s “skipping”. This brings me to another peeve I have about the public school system (which my husband refers to as “germ of the week club”). My 7 yo son is now lying on the couch with a fever because a classmate’s parent sent their son to school yesterday with a fever. The parents were called later in the morning to come and pick up their child. Why are these parents sending sick children to school to infect my child? Is it because they’re afraid the school will report them to CPS for “excessive absences”?
tnmama on March 14, 2009 at 12:24 PM
Just so you poor persecuted creationists don’t feel singled out Google Oklahoma’s HR 1014 and 1015. Legislation aimed against one man presenting ideas. Where is Ben Stein when you need him?
deewhybee on March 14, 2009 at 12:38 PM
did you remember to starch your brown shirt this morning?
right4life on March 14, 2009 at 12:39 PM
whats your problem??? did you think you were living in a free country, or something?? please…they’re doing it to ya for your own good…they know whats best for you!!
Big Obama CARES more than you do for your children…
right4life on March 14, 2009 at 12:40 PM
You’re using the definition that comes to your mind when you hear the word cult and ignoring the other definitions. The definition I posted seems to me to be what the father is asserting. I do not assert the definition you insist on and I don’t think the father does either.
Is not what you seem to think. My experience with Christians has generally been very good. There is much I respect about Christianity and the positive influence it has on people’s lives. My only serious beef is with those people who try who try to impose theology on science classrooms. It doesn’t belong there. I would no more advocate putting creationism in science class than I would putting evolution in the pulpit on Sunday morning, or Advanced Algebra and Trigonometry in English Literature class.
backwoods conservative on March 14, 2009 at 12:43 PM
I have the same problem!! those darwiniacs trying to ram atheism down our throat in the guise of ‘science’…as miller admits…
its bad enough that evolution is nothing more than story with nothing to back it up, then they use it to transform ‘science’ in to atheism.
right4life on March 14, 2009 at 12:47 PM
Oh, I see, I’m ignoring other definition but you are not. Well here are some other groups that have been defined as cults, see if you can determine any pattern here.
I guess they forgot to add to the list the worsts of all, those single mom Christian home-schoolers.
Maxx on March 14, 2009 at 1:14 PM
I think it’s one of the undesirable side effects of working moms. They may feel pressure of not taking a day off or may not want to do so. Hence the sick kids get sent to school.
I homeschooled my kids for most of their education before college, however, they did have a few years in the public school and in a Christians school. I’ve seen this. I kept my children home when they were sick, but other sick kids were there. My kids were susceptible to strep throat and we went through several times.
INC on March 14, 2009 at 1:40 PM
Thank you for your words of support. I’m a Christian and I really appreciate them.
INC on March 14, 2009 at 1:51 PM
Maybe some day a judge will rule that govt school sutends must transfer to Christian schools to have their beliefs challenged.
Sorry…
Akzed on March 14, 2009 at 2:28 PM
Allahpundit:
You should be pleased. Get those pesky Christians out of the public square, right?
Joe Pyne on March 14, 2009 at 2:32 PM
Excellent point. But I got a feeling this “beliefs being challenged” thing is a one-way street.
Maxx on March 14, 2009 at 2:38 PM
Are there people who still believe in evolution? Seriously. No. Seriously.
apacalyps on March 14, 2009 at 3:08 PM
Hi Maxx. Maxx is awesome. I like him. So is Skidd. Where are you Skidd. Two of my favourite posters.
apacalyps on March 14, 2009 at 3:10 PM
My guess is lack of child care for the sick child, or the parents have already missed a lot of days of work keeping a sick child at home and fear losing their jobs. After all, if an employer has to cut jobs, attendence records could be a big factor.
We always called our son’s schools “germ farms”. He brought home everything and gave it to us – thank goodness he didn’t seem to catch everything, he was just a carrier.
I agree that this mother needs a good lawyer and should appeal this. Where the children attend school is not up to the judge. It is up to the parents.
And I futher suggest that the father be proactive in his children’s lives and take it upon himself to teach his children the science he wants them to know rather than just stick them in a public school. That’s the easy way out. It’s also a method to control the mother.
ladyingray on March 14, 2009 at 3:16 PM
Here’s a link with details of several transitional forms for you creationists to ignore:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/section1.html#pred4
As long as you’re ignoring links you can also ignore this one about the role of Christianity in the persecution of the Jews long before that evil Darwin was ever born:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/jud_pers.htm
deewhybee on March 14, 2009 at 3:26 PM
There was nothing Christian about what the TheMightyQuinn said, if that is what you are referring to. Just another Moby Troll trying to makes us look bad.
Why Joe, are you the TheMightyQuinn’s pal?
Maxx on March 14, 2009 at 3:27 PM
Here’s the title of deewhybee’s link:
This is the same evolution garbage we’ve been given all along. Let’s dream up some way the tree goes, and try to find all the stuff we can to verify it, and if we can’t verify it, then draw it out — that will give it some real credibility. And if they don’t buy the drawing, lie.
Christian Conservative on March 14, 2009 at 4:02 PM
I wanted to add that during the one year when we had two children in the public school system was a year when they kept getting sick with strep throats. I’d forgotten about it until now, but I did get hassled about keeping them home from school so much. I believe I told the principle/teacher that I believed in keeping my kids at home when they were sick and if other parents did the same my children would be healthier.
Don’t roll over for educational bureaucrats. Speak truth to power (couldn’t resist saying that). Actually, just try using their jargon back to them about doing what’s best for the children and how studies have shown, etc., etc…
INC on March 14, 2009 at 4:12 PM
So Christian Conservative, did you bother doing any reading at that site? No you didn’t.
So what about that Christian persecution of the Jews? How are you dismissing that one?
deewhybee on March 14, 2009 at 4:31 PM
And the Secular Humanists rejoice, as this is another win for their, the only publicly viable, religion.
So much for the “strict wall of separation.”
spmat on March 14, 2009 at 4:34 PM
My question to you deewhybee is why shouldn’t I ignore it? As I look at the page you linked, one of the first things I see is Archaeopteryx once again being rolled out as an example of reptiles to birds at the infamously wrong about nearly everything TalkOrigins site. Do you realize your own Society of Vertebrate Paleontology has declared that Archaeopteryx is just a bird?
Do you realise that Alan Feduccia, a world authority on birds and an evolutionist has stated that Archaeopteryx is just a bird?
So tell me deewhybee, per this example, its clear that TalkOrgins is so desperate to present any evidence at all for macro-evolution that it will print anything, no matter how absurd. So please tell me, why should I read further?
And before you answer, I must admit I looked down the page a little further, and Archaeopteryx is by no means the most ridiculous and throughly debunked example I saw.
If you are really interested in the truth of the matter and you believe one of these given examples has merit, then please tell me which one and I will be happy to give you the complete story on that item, with links. There are NO transitional fossils [period].
Maxx on March 14, 2009 at 4:59 PM
So Maxx, who did the debunking of the other examples you mention? Was it anyone who is a biologist with a degree from a real school?
deewhybee on March 14, 2009 at 5:07 PM
How is the newly single mother supposed to work to support her children while she’s home-schooling them? If she’s getting child support, the father should be afforded parenting rights concomitant to his obligations. If the mother left the father because of her involvement with the Sound Doctrine Church, why should she be allowed to alienate her children from their father through a program of religious indoctrination? Does the father lose all custodial rights in order to satisfy the mother’s strict spiritual requirements?
Put yourself in the father’s shoes – his wife possibly left him because she thought they were “unequally yoked,” now he faces the prospect of paying his ex-wife to teach his own flesh and blood to reject him for the same reason. If the judge has awarded the father any custodial rights at all, the only way to guarantee them is to lend his educational preferences the force of law.
RightOFLeft on March 14, 2009 at 5:16 PM
I don’t know what your point is with that post or what you think that proves. There is a long list of injustices against Jews purported to have been instigated by Christians according to this particular anti-Christian site. I recognize some of the items on the list as being historic events but specifically pushed forward by true followers of Christ, nope, I don’t buy that for a minute.
But for the sake of argument lets suppose it was all true. Unless you can show me in the Bible where Christ or the Lord God said to Christians…. “Thou shalt persecute Jews,” then all you have is a list of people who were not following Christian doctrine. There is no Christian doctrine to persecute anybody. If you think there is, then please point me to it in the Scriptures.
Maxx on March 14, 2009 at 5:23 PM
It depends on which example you are talking about. But off the top of my head, I believe I can point you to good authority and authority you should accept for just about any of the other examples. But this is a lot more easy if you tell me which one you have great faith in, then I can bring my sources to bear and you will either accept it or you won’t.
Maxx on March 14, 2009 at 5:28 PM
Max, my point with the persecution link is that people say evolution leads to eugenics and such. Meanwhile, whenever it is brought up about the long and bloody role of Christianity leading to the holocaust the claim is always that they were not “real” Christians. Then they blame it on Darwin and Hitler and atheism. Where in atheist “scripture” does it say to commit eugenics or genocide. I would say that “true followers” of rational thought would not perform such actions.
As to the fossil record, I have no “faith” in any of it. It is empirical. It requires no faith. So where is your debunking site, or at least one of them?
deewhybee on March 14, 2009 at 5:40 PM
no, the claim is that christianity did NOT lead to the holocaust, evolution and eugenics did. I don’t know where you get that fantasy at…it must be more atheist talking points…
I posted Darwin’s own views…they’re say EUGENICS in bold letters…and the connection between darwin and hitler is nothing new…
link
yeah and it shows NO evolution..sorry.
right4life on March 14, 2009 at 5:47 PM
Well I can see that you have resorted to being disingenuous so I guess I’m done. Do you really expect me to provide you with dozens of links with descriptions as to which debunks what?
Maxx on March 14, 2009 at 5:48 PM
oh yeah your hairygod darwin was racist as hell…
and racism is implicit in evolution…after all the different races evolved differently right? that woul lead people like darwin, watson, et al to believe racism is ‘scientific’ as gould said…
right4life on March 14, 2009 at 5:54 PM
try this for those ’29 evidences’
link
right4life on March 14, 2009 at 5:55 PM
you know whats even funnier about those 29 evidences…it starts with
the tree of life has been thrown under the bus….this is too funny….no tree, no evolution..get a clue…
link
right4life on March 14, 2009 at 6:07 PM
Yep, I love the TrueOrigin site, great stuff!! Here is a site I just found today that looks very good.
But I wanted to give deewhybee references for debunk from evolutionist sites, so he does not have the claim of bias. And I have plenty of evolutionist sites that tears much of TalkOrigins apart. But deewhybee doesn’t want to see it, I tried, that’s all you can do.
Maxx on March 14, 2009 at 6:10 PM
thats a good site, thank you.
to darwniacs anything that disputes the hairyone is BLASPHEMY!!! to them darwin is all in all..praise DARWIN!! thats why they have their DARWIN DAY…and ‘evolution sunday’
its nothing more than the faith of atheism…
right4life on March 14, 2009 at 6:15 PM
In an earlier comment I linked to a story that mentions the kids had been homeschooled since 2005 and only now is the dad objecting to it. He also admits to having an affair. There is no mention on income/support being a problem in anything that I’ve read.
I also linked to Volokh’s assessment of custody cases and homeschooling.
INC on March 14, 2009 at 6:16 PM
I wasn’t up to reading all 300 comments, sorry I missed it (that sounds sarcastic in print, it isn’t). There’s not nearly enough information to definitively criticize or support the judge’s decision, pending the written opinion. That said, the affair doesn’t necessarily change anything. It wasn’t the right thing for the husband to do, but if his wife had stopped loving him, she can hardly complain that he looked elsewhere.
Does there have to be? Are we just assuming she’s independently wealthy?
Divorces tend to make both people look worse than they really are. I’m not going to assume the father deserves to be cut off from his kids because he’s not perfect (read: Christian, according to some people).
RightOFLeft on March 14, 2009 at 6:45 PM
Where I am, the school’s performance is measured in part by attendance. According to the school policy, students are allowed 3 absences that are unexcused or excused by the parents. Otherwise, a doctor’s note is required.
I found it very interesting that a parent’s excuse is no better than being unexcused. The only actual advantage to a parent’s excuse is that teachers are at least required to allow the students to catch up their work.
My daughter missed a few days with a note from us that she was sick, and we’ve been told she must make up every absence with Saturday school or get no credit for the quarter.
And yes, she has caught up all her classwork. I don’t think she’s even required to do any school work on those Saturday schools. She just has to show up for a couple of hours and be in a seat.
There’s an old saying that “The law is an ass.” Apparently, so are public school bureaucracies.
ThereGoesTheNeighborhood on March 14, 2009 at 6:48 PM
Maxx, I looked at the links section of your “unbiased” site and every one of them is to a creationist site or an ID site. That is hardly “unbiased”. If you have plenty of evolutionist sites then give me one. Not a creationist or ID site.
Right4life, you are the one who claims that evolution led to the holocaust and my point is that centuries of Christian persecution and murder set the stage for persecution and murder of Jews to be an acceptable norm in Christian Europe. And remember that it happened in Christian Europe. And it was nothing new. It was just well organized.
I can’t help but laugh at creationists. You have a belief that requires you to dismiss almost the entire universe. If the heavens and the earth are only about 6000 years old then why do we see light from stars more than 6000 light years away? What is your dismissal of the Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation? If God created everything static why is the universe expanding?
You falsely think that if you discredit Darwin it proves creationism. Even if Darwin is wrong it does not prove God exists or that creationism is true. Disproving A does not prove B.
deewhybee on March 14, 2009 at 7:14 PM
As always people take one aspect of the argument and run with it, thinking that is the issue. The issue isn’t evolution folks. The issue is a judge using the power of the state to force their kids out of home school because he concluded they were getting too much education on the Bible, and not enough with his religion, science.
He over reached, and this should scare anyone who is intellectually honest, even if you agree with the judge concerning evolution.
Conservative Voice on March 14, 2009 at 7:19 PM
Conservative Voice, you are right that the issue is about the legal case. Do you think any of us knows the whole story about this case?
Even if it is you presented, why should the father have less say so in what his children are taught than the mother? What about father’s rights?
deewhybee on March 14, 2009 at 7:30 PM
uh not just me, I have documented it quite well…as far as your contention…well why don’t you show me where the bible talks about the MASTER RACE…hmmmmm?? you can say whatever, doesn’t matter…truth is that hitler was an evolutionist to his core, and he just applied evolution to humans…eugenics.
you darwiniacs are really clueless you think all creationists are young earth creationists…not all are..but for an interesting answer to your question about starlight and time…Russell Humphreys has a book called ‘starlight and time’.
as far as physics…don’t you know that we are down to the multiverse, which is totally science fiction, but is accepted as science, because the alternative…the anthropic principle…is unthinkable to atheists…but the evidence is piling up for the anthropic principle…the universe is fine tuned….exquisitely for life…
right4life on March 14, 2009 at 7:40 PM
I’ve not posted any link for you deewhybee except for the link to the Society of Vertebrate Paleontology for debunking the Archaeopteryx claim at TalkOrigins. I linked you to your own fellow believers in evolution, I did not send you to a creationist site.
How can I read your mind and provide you with a link for debunk unless I know what it is that I am trying to debunk? You’ve got to be specific.
Maxx on March 14, 2009 at 7:42 PM
uh first, I don’t have to ‘prove God’…if you can’t look around and see the Hand of God, then nothing will prove that to you…
but we are down to 2 choices…either life was created by God…or molecules somehow became self-replicating…and then became alive. evolution posits that there is no God, that life just ‘happened’ and here we are.
so yes, discrediting evolution, which isn’t that hard, does make the case for God…because there are no other options…
right4life on March 14, 2009 at 7:43 PM
deewhybee on March 14, 2009 at 7:30 PM
in my opinion, the father gave up those rights when he had his fling. But I’m old school. The judge didn’t base his decision on the father’s so called rights, he decided based on his own religious beliefs.
If the mother was teaching within the criteria the state set on what needs to be taught, then the judge has no ground to say she should lose her rights to teach her kids, especially if kids are performing well.
Conservative Voice on March 14, 2009 at 7:51 PM
I find it strange that the family court which is notorious for bias against the father is suddenly so very concerned for the father’s rights.
There is no mystery here, the religion of the state is evolution and the judge enforced it. Its a crime against the Constitution and a denial of religious freedom and parental rights.
The decision was not based on what was best for the children, no one in their right mind uproots children from their learning environment, especially when they are doing so well, without an overpowering reason. There was no such reason in this case and the decision will hurt these kids by sending them into the substandard public school system.
Maxx on March 14, 2009 at 7:51 PM
you truly have to be an idiot to think that God created everything static.
right4life on March 14, 2009 at 8:02 PM
You truly have to be an idiot to believe that God exists at all.
deewhybee on March 14, 2009 at 8:07 PM
thanks for proving the truth of the bible…professing to be wise they have become fools..
right4life on March 14, 2009 at 8:14 PM
deewhybee on March 14, 2009 at 8:07 PM
All one has to do is come to Hawaii, a dot in the ocean, to know that God exists. The sheer chance that the African Swallow carried over that coconut over thousand miles of ocean is laughable. ( Not to mention all the other plant life that was here way before man ).
It takes more faith to not believe in God, than it does to believe in God.
Conservative Voice on March 14, 2009 at 8:15 PM
deewhybee on March 14, 2009 at 8:07 PM
to add, doesn’t take away from the fact the judge over-reached according to his faith…separation of church and state seems to only apply when its Christianity huh?
Conservative Voice on March 14, 2009 at 8:16 PM
and deewhybee, in case you missed the allusion, I was alluding to the African Swallow mentioned in the religious text of Mighty Python.
Conservative Voice on March 14, 2009 at 8:18 PM
Are you saying that a God that could create the universe would not be able to draw the light forth so the stars could be seen from earth, no matter how far away they are?
You are also assuming that the speed of light has always been constant. That’s a big assumption considering that the speed of light is not constant. You are also assuming that we know how far away the stars are, that’s another big assumption.
Maxx on March 14, 2009 at 8:25 PM
Conservative voice, I still question that we know the whole story on this. We only know what someone tells us who is interested in getting ratings.
If the decision had gone the other way and the judge was a Christian would you make the same claim?
If Islands are proof of God then look at Easter Island and other Pacific islands that had civilizations on them. God’s children if I’m not mistaken. He let them starve to death, resorting to cannibalism at the end. Do you think none of those people were petitioning a supernatural power to come and save them? So God will show up to plant some coconut trees but he won’t pop round to deliver a pizza to save his children from cannibalism?
deewhybee on March 14, 2009 at 8:26 PM
Conservative Voice, I understood the Python reference. I’m quite well versed in Monty Python.
deewhybee on March 14, 2009 at 8:27 PM
Maxx, are you joking? Where are you getting this stuff? So does the light from far away galaxies travel faster than light from nearby galaxies? Do you even know what redshift is?
So now astronomy is the work of the devil too?
deewhybee on March 14, 2009 at 8:33 PM
You are not a young Earther right4life? Oh my, I surely am. In fact there is nothing I like more than getting into a debate about the age of the Earth because the evidences for a young Earth are as overwhelming in my opinion as the evidences for Creation. And the old Earthers, when you boil it all down, have almost nothing.
Maxx on March 14, 2009 at 8:37 PM
Yes I know what redshift is and I know about the Doppler effect. But the truth be known, despite scientific claims, I doubt very seriously whether redshift is a true indicator of star distance.
As far as light’s speed, check out this article where light was sped up and this article where light was nearly stopped.
Maxx on March 14, 2009 at 8:44 PM
deewhybee, ah come one…the holy grail, the African Swallow…do I really need to explain this? I give up :)
As far as people starving to death, doesn’t mean God doesn’t exist. Nor does it mean that he didn’t hear their prayers. It could be that the Christian God doesn’t exist…that its some guy…or whatever…that goes around and does things as a means of enjoyment. Maybe this whole life thing is just a hologram and really we have computers using our bodies as batteries. All joking aside. Crap happens. My brother died at a young age due to cancer. So I could use that as an example there is no God. But I would be wrong. It just means I don’t have the big picture. I won’t bother showing you scripture, because it won’t convince you of anything. Again, I will leave the door open, that maybe the Christian God doesn’t exist…( I happen to believe otherwise ) doesn’t mean there isn’t something out there that guides the universe.
Now as far as coming to grips of could the Christian God allow a whole nation to starve? Or for that matter how loving is he that causes tyrants to rule with blood and horror? Or even as small of a request to keep my brother alive. I know in my own life, God intervened…I drank nitric acid as a kid, lethal dose. And I survived due to many miracles. And that is just a small portion of the many miracles I see God perform in my life, throughout my life. So imagine if you will, my confusion when my brother died. And that is what it is, I am confused from my vantage point. But I know that given God’s point of view, my brother had to go through his pain and suffering, and he had to die. And life is full of crappy stories like that. And its full of amazing stories as well.
Conservative Voice on March 14, 2009 at 8:49 PM
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