Quote of the day
posted at 10:00 pm on March 13, 2009 by Allahpundit
“Thomas Mills also said he was ‘concerned about the children’s religious-based science curriculum’ and that he wants ‘the children to be exposed to mainstream science, even if they eventually choose to believe creationism over evolution.’
In a verbal ruling, Mangum said the children should go to public school.
‘He was upfront and said that, ‘It’s not about religion.’ But yet when it came down to his ruling and reasons why, ‘He said this would be a good opportunity for the children to be tested in the beliefs that I have taught them,” Venessa Mills said.”
Blowback
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Conservative Voice on March 14, 2009 at 8:49 PM
oops, my apologies dee, I misread as you not getting the holy grail reference…oh well
Conservative Voice on March 14, 2009 at 8:50 PM
Um, no. All that the theory of evolution states is that when you have variation and a system of selection, natural or domestic, and when dealing with natural selection we’re dealing with the ability to survive. Almost every society in the world has some practice of caring for the sick and the old, it’s extremely simplistic to assume that, despite this, there’s a survival advantage to letting the sick and the old just die off. You don’t think societies have tried letting the sick and the old just die off? But do we see very much of them, and when we do, how successful are they as nations?
And for presuming that evolution suggests racism is, once again, simplistic. Human society is largely how we track human evolution, but the ability of brains in any living creatures to identify and cause the body to react to stimuli does not mean that they are completely rational. Group identities and identification heuristics both show up in most human brains because they are beneficial to survival, and as a consequence we have racism. That dominant societies have been progressing away from racism indicates that there is a benefit to moderating the application of our group identities and identification heuristics when it comes to race. People who actually believe in the application of evolution do not suggest that it allows them to know what’s going to happen next because they know that that’s not how evolution works. We progress towards the ideal survival, but it’s extremely arrogant to suggest that you know what that ideal is.
And it’s nonsense to suggest that evolution suggests atheism. The only people who see evolution as meaning there is no God either doesn’t understand what evolution is or doesn’t understand the fundamental questions which God answers (as evolution in absolutely no way comes anywhere close to answering those questions). For me, evolution is further evidence that there is a God that loves us. If one reads the teachings of Jesus Christ as an explanation of how people should live and interact with each other within a society, it’s a perfect explanation for the direction in which that society has been evolving and will continue to evolve. The laws of physics come from somewhere, existence and the way things function within existence have to have come from somewhere, and the fact that Jesus Christ came to us and showed us where we’re going and would do well to go faster seems to be more than enough proof that there is a God. And the fact that on the other side of the world the Hindus and the Buddhists came up with the same idea that overall in this overarching system in the long run if you do good things good things will happen to you and that if you do bad things bad things will happen, that the right way to live is to live morally and ethically because we live in an existence that prefers that backs up the existence of a God. And if you add into this Einstein’s theories on the traits of energy and matter, and how Chaos theory provides evidence that everything, even those that appear the most chaotic, are a product of ordered relationships, once again it backs up the idea of God even more.
Now the beliefs as to the specifics of what God is are up to the individual, as there is no definitive answer, but to suggest that the following of science leads logically to the belief that there is nothing more than the here and now is dependent upon science not showing what it shows.
galenrox on March 14, 2009 at 9:20 PM
These articles deal with the speed of light as it passes through a medium. Scientists have long known that light can be slowed down in a medium. The experiments seeming to show light traveling faster are intriquing, but they deal with very specialized circumstances. Unless someone can demonstrate variations in the speed of light in a vacuum, it has no effect on cosmology.
backwoods conservative on March 14, 2009 at 9:41 PM
I really haven’t made up my mind on this…I don’t think the universe is as old as ‘conventional wisdom’ says because I think conventional wisdom is usually always wrong…am I sure its 6,000 years? no I don’t really know..I don’t think the world has to be 6,000 years old…and even if it was only 6,000 years old the Lord created it with an appearance of age..so who knows?
right4life on March 14, 2009 at 10:02 PM
Maxx, I have seen those articles. So how far off do you think we are about the distance to the stars? Do you think type 1a supernovas are not an accurate distance marker?
deewhybee on March 14, 2009 at 10:06 PM
The current age of the earth and universe aside, some day humans will no longer exist. Will the universe continue on for countless trillions of years having outlived its usefulness as a home for man, or will God fold up shop since there will be reason to keep it around any longer?
deewhybee on March 14, 2009 at 10:12 PM
Whoops, that should be …no reason to keep it around any longer?
deewhybee on March 14, 2009 at 10:13 PM
The point is… that there are things we don’t know. When I was in school… I won’t say how long ago, but I was taught that the speed of light was a constant. Its not. Could there be other things we don’t know about light?
But really its moot as far as I’m concerned. A God that could create the universe wouldn’t have any problem bringing the light forth from the stars so we could see them, no matter what their distance or what the speed of light is. God is not restrained by the laws of physics.
Maxx on March 14, 2009 at 10:15 PM
Um, yeah. as far as the sick and the diseased, Darwin clearly stated his view…did you just ignore it? you do know that the term ‘eugenics’ was coined by his cousin, right?? you do know that eugenics is just applied evolution…Sanger and everyone else was aware of this.
simplistic?? you mean FACTUAL. darwin was a racist, and as I stated, evolution is implicitly racist…the title of the book says it all…
according to evolutions the races are differently evolved…so one has to be more fit than the other…thus the implicit racism in evolution…as recently displayed by Watson.
you just seem to have some difficulty with the truth.
we do? who says? and darwin knew, as he demonstrated in that previous quote who the ‘favoured race’ was..
actually its nonsense to suggest it does not. I posted the quote by miller…now miller speaks for evolution..YOU do not..unless you are some published evolutionary biologist.
Provine is right..and its rather obvious.
then I would probably agree with dawkins about this statement…its crazy.
right4life on March 14, 2009 at 10:15 PM
link
interesting article it also talks about alpha, the fine structure constant…137…which even has a web site devoted to the mystery of that number…
137
I’ve also heard that the number 7 appears 137 times in revelation…
right4life on March 14, 2009 at 10:23 PM
right4life on March 14, 2009 at 10:02 PM
If your interested in more study on the topic I think Walt Brown’s site is one of the best. And actually I’ve been looking over this new site I discovered and it seems to have a large collection of articles on the topic. Very interesting study when you get time.
Maxx on March 14, 2009 at 10:23 PM
you should check out humphrey’s ‘starlight and time’ and there is also the plasma theory of the universe…
there are a lot of problems with our current big bang cosmology…inflation, dark matter and energy…
and what is dark matter and energy? terms for our ignorance…we don’t have a clue..but it is supposed to make up the vast majority of the universe…
right4life on March 14, 2009 at 10:29 PM
Go to Walt’s site sometime and look up Dark Matter. I won’t spoil the surprise but I think you will gasp at what he thinks it is….. and no, it not what you are thinking. Is he right? I have no idea, but it sure does have a truthful ring to it.
Maxx on March 14, 2009 at 10:38 PM
I’ll check it out…thanks!
right4life on March 14, 2009 at 10:49 PM
Your answers are in Revelation 21 and 22.
Maxx on March 14, 2009 at 11:02 PM
Revelation sounds like the ravings of someone who ate some funny plant in the desert. It seems pretty obsessed with precious stones. I like how they appeal to the greed factor to entice any doubters. Seems like the product of a merchant traders mind. Today they would have to make it diamonds.
deewhybee on March 14, 2009 at 11:21 PM
That’s some speculation that’s been floating around for a while, but so far they don’t have enough evidence to back it up. If they ever get enough evidence to establish it as scientific fact, it would have a great deal of implications for cosmology. Until and unless they can gather enough evidence, it remains speculation.
backwoods conservative on March 14, 2009 at 11:22 PM
Mutation or something is a religion of death.
apacalyps on March 14, 2009 at 11:25 PM
You’ve been awfully quiet tonight apocalyps. How ya doing my friend?
Maxx on March 14, 2009 at 11:31 PM
You are something else deewhybee. How exactly would anyone be motivated by greed or for the stones? Are you thinking that God is giving everyone the okeydokey to rip up the streets of gold and to steal the foundations of the walls of the New Jerusalem? I guess you didn’t read it all that carefully.
Maxx on March 14, 2009 at 11:39 PM
Hey Maxx! Yeah, I don’t have time to fight all the battles. You seem to be handling them quite well though. I have full confidence in you (smiles). You are one of my favourite posters.
apacalyps on March 14, 2009 at 11:40 PM
I teach at a public school and I NEVER want to send my 2 year old daughter to any of them.
Mojave Mark on March 14, 2009 at 11:50 PM
apacalyps on March 14, 2009 at 11:40 PM
Well thank you, that’s very kind. Your pretty awesome yourself when you start firing on all cylinders. I also like fossten, labrat, Dr.Cwac.Cwac, JellyToast, Theworldisnotenough, and as you mentioned Skidd. Lots of great commenters here at HotAir, even our trolls are the best.
Maxx on March 15, 2009 at 12:00 AM
Boy, am I ever pleased you realize there is a problem. I think there are some decent Bible-believing Christians teachers still serving in the public schools, but the educational system is so broken that I don’t think it can be fixed. Christian parents should get their kids out, send them to private schools, or teach ‘em at home (if these are options, not every parent can do this). For too long Christians have allowed their children to attend public schools to become property of those who defy the existence of God.
apacalyps on March 15, 2009 at 12:11 AM
You and Skidd remind me of each other. Skidd rocks. Oh, and by the way, I wanna mention again that there are decent people who did not vote for Mike Huckabee and I count you as one of them. So please keep this in mind when I talk about so called “conservatives” or “phony” Christians relating to this subject. I am not referring to a fellow believer like you. I am talking about a whole different kind of person who hates his religion and would not vote for him because of it. Has nothing to do with you, Skidd, or any one else supportive of me. Just wanted to make sure you knew. Thanks (smiles).
apacalyps on March 15, 2009 at 12:38 AM
Maxx, why does paradise need gold and precious stones? Only a mind focused on money would even describe a stone as precious or think that gold equates with paradise.
The limitations of the culture that the author came from is all over that passage. Actually it’s all over any piece of literature including the Bible. It’s clearly ancient fantasy induced by some special mushrooms or jimson(sp?) weed.
deewhybee on March 15, 2009 at 12:43 AM
apacalyps on March 15, 2009 at 12:38 AM
No problem, I’m not so easily offended anyway.
Maxx on March 15, 2009 at 12:51 AM
deewhybee on March 15, 2009 at 12:43 AM
deewhybee I don’t understand you. What in the world is wrong with having precious stones in paradise? You say the Bible is just mumbojumbo and that, to me, means you’ve never read much of it with a discerning eye.
The Bible is about 27% prophecy of which about 60% has been fulfilled at this point to the letter. Proverbs contains wisdom far beyond any human understanding. There are scientific facts in the Bible that have only recently been discovered. Science is catching up with the Bible.
Historically the Bible has been proven as exactly correct time and time again. Archeology has shown the total accuracy of the Bible. No other religious book on the planet has even come close to holding up to the tests of time like the Bible.
The knowledge of places, times, chronology, names, various facts, human nature, and on and on contained in the Bible shows that it was God breathed. No man or group of men, of themselves, could have ever produced such a document.
For centuries knowledgeable men from all walks of life have set out to prove the Bible was not true. None of them accomplished their task and many of them came back Christians.
And you suggest it was written by a bunch of whacked-out sheep herders.
Maxx on March 15, 2009 at 1:12 AM
I’ve heard that Nostradamus has a pretty good accuracy rating too. It’s pretty easy to make the events of the day fit whatever you want to see. In fact, even among Christians there is quite a lot of diversity of opinion about what the Bible says. It sounds like God is not a very good communicator. Some people say the Bible is about love while others say it says that God hates fags. Still others believe it says God hates fags but won’t admit to it in public. Some people said it justified slavery while others said it was a reason to abolish it.
So I’m supposed to believe that some angels went to Sodom and the mob wanted to butt-rape them, so Lot said to rape his daughters instead. And Lot was the most moral man in town. I’m supposed to believe in a burning bush that talks and provides all of humanity with a life for dummies guide. I’m supposed to believe in a snake that talks and peddles apples to unsuspecting nude women. I’m supposed to believe that the entire universe is all about man. I’m supposed to believe that the entire earth was flooded and that the Chinese civilization which goes back thousands of years never noticed. I’m supposed to believe 2 of every species fit on a boat and just a few deckhands were able to keep them all alive for months, etc.
But I’m not supposed to believe that there is a pantheon of gods living on Mount Olympus. That would be silly.
I’ve never envisioned paradise as a jewelry store. I think more of the Alps in the summer. I envision chocolate that doesn’t make me fat. What do I want gold for?
deewhybee on March 15, 2009 at 1:39 AM
deewhybee on March 15, 2009 at 1:39 AM
like I said before, maybe the Christian viewpoint of God is wrong, doesn’t mean God doesn’t exist.
As far as God not being a great communicator, therefore there can be no God argument…just because God doesn’t fit your mold of how he should behave, doesn’t mean its all a fake. Case in point, gravity…no one can tell you why we have gravity, we can only say its there. I am sure if you stood by God, it would all make sense to you.
Conservative Voice on March 15, 2009 at 2:27 AM
Nostradamus’s track record was actually very awful but I don’t have a link handy for it right now.
Many Bible prophecies are very specific. I think its the book of Daniel written about 600 years before the event that actually states the name of the person that would be called upon to do God’s bidding with his armies. The prophecy was so accurate and so specific that atheist academics tried to claim the book was written after the fact, but they were throughly shot down, the records were more than sufficient to show the book was written centuries before the event.
The prophecies of Jesus concerning Israel being taken captive, then scattered and in present day returning to Israel have all happened. Look for the Dome of the Rock to fall soon so Israel can build it’s third temple. I’m going to stop there because prophecy is not my strong point, but there is plenty of it to show the God given nature of the Bible if you delve into it.
In fact, even among Christians there is quite a lot of diversity of opinion about what the Bible says.
deewhybee on March 15, 2009 at 1:39 AM
No argument there.
Some parts of the Bible are cryptic and study is needed to really understand it. Some people just don’t have or take the time to delve into it as it requires. But the parts that lead to Salvation are very clear and straightforward. But books like Revelation is not for beginners.
God hates sin, not the sinner.
Slavery was a fact during Biblical times. The Bible recognized this fact and gave the slaves the best advice it could. Work hard, obey your masters, gain his approval and you will do well. Paul described himself as a slave to God. The Bible speaks of the “servants” of God over and over again. That’s what we are, everybody serves either Him, or the guy downstairs. We are Always servants of one or the other.
Yep, that’s the way it went down. But of course Lot’s daughters didn’t get raped, did they?
That’s correct, don’t forget about the talking donkey or Jonah in the belly of the whale [fish actually] for three days.
Yes, it was all created exclusively for us and the heavens declare the glory of God. That’s how much He loves you. And that’s why the universe is so big and powerful, because its a small reflection of the One who Created it.
Yes. The clear evidence of this covers the Earth, even the highest mountains.
My understanding is that the earliest story that has been found from the ancient Chinese culture is of eight-mouths on a boat with lots of animals. I’m not kidding.
No. Two of every “kind” of animal that breathed through their nostrils. “Species” is a man-made artificial division of the animal kingdom. There are hundreds of “species” of dogs, but there is only one “kind” of animal that is a dog. There were two dogs on the Arc, not hundreds. There are only about 8,000 different “kinds” of land animals, two of each makes 16,000 animals. Its estimated the Arc could have held about 30,000 animals with more than adequate space to store all the supplies needed to feed them. It was a big boat. Feasibility study numbers vary but here’s a quick overview.
I suspect that much of Greek mythology was based on the actual giants that did indeed exist in the pre-flood world and there were still a few after the flood.
Make it to heaven my friend, you can do it. God is on your side and is anxious to receive you if you will only realize it. You will have chocolate that won’t make you fat. The Bible says that eyes have not seen, nor has it entered into the hearts of men the magnificent gifts that God has prepared for us. God exist and He really loves you, He really does.
Maxx on March 15, 2009 at 2:55 AM
Are you talking about evolution scientists? They started out believing in evolution, and allowed their belief to influence their future investigations. Your circular logic is exasperating.
Squiggy on March 15, 2009 at 7:33 AM
Could it be because only gold and precious stones don’t rust or deteriorate in any way? They are eternal.
Just as heaven is supposed to be.
Squiggy on March 15, 2009 at 7:44 AM
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