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April Fools! Thank You For Smoking (For The Kids) Day comes early

posted at 6:05 pm on March 13, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
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Smokers around the country expected cigarette prices to rise on April 1st, when the new federal taxes to fund the S-CHIP program start getting assessed.  They got a rude shock this week, when tobacco companies decided to hike prices ahead of time to stop consumers from hoarding in the last week of the month.  It may not be the last time, either, as states around the country look for revenue from so-called “sin taxes”:

Smokers who were preparing to take a hit to their wallets next month are learning to their surprise that the era of nearly $5-per-pack cigarettes arrived early.

On April 1, the federal government boosts its tax on cigarettes to help pay for a children’s health care program. But many tobacco companies, in anticipation of the extra 62-cent tax, decided to implement price hikes now — about three weeks early.

Tobacco giant Philip Morris, maker of popular brands Marlboro, Virginia Slims and Parliament, upped its list price 71 cents per pack on Monday. R.J. Reynolds, maker of Kool, Camel and several discount brands, plans to raise prices between 41 and 78 cents beginning Monday.

This, in turn, has driven the retail price of most packs of cigarettes up about $1 at many local stores.

The cigarette tax is a great example of Big Government hypocrisy on Big Tobacco.  They claim to want to penalize smokers for the health-care costs they create through their nicotine addiction, but the funds will go primarily to health-care costs to non-smokers: children.  In reality, they needed a big new revenue stream to pay for another giveaway, and decided to get it from smokers.

Nor is that the only hypocrisy.  Most nanny-staters claim that they’re acting in benefit of smokers by increasing taxes, as that will provide further incentive for them to quit using the product.  However, if people actually did stop smoking, it would bankrupt government, which needs a large smoking tax base to provide billions in cash on state and federal levels.  If we propose the reverse — if we outlawed tobacco rather than taxed it — would Congress eliminate S-CHIP?  Of course not.  They’d just look for something else to tax.

Michael Flynn wrote about the same issue at Reason a month ago:

Desperate for an infusion of cash, politicians have turned to their oldest stand-by; cigarette taxes. Even after decades of steady increases in tobacco taxes, state lawmakers in at least a dozen states are looking to raise cigarette taxes.

Right now, government makes more off the sale of a pack of cigarettes than tobacco companies. In some states, two-thirds of the price of a pack already goes to government. This will get worse because Congress just hiked the federal cigarette tax 61 cents a pack to help pay for the expanded State Children’s Health Insurance Program.

Anti-drug advertisements by government agencies like to tell the public that those who buy illegal drugs fund gang warfare and street violence.  In a real way, those who smoke cigarettes fund Big Government.  Maybe we should have an advertisement for that to play on television; the Libertarian Party could use it for recruitment.

The same nanny-staters that usually also push for progressive tax policies, like the Obama insistence that he will only increase taxes for the top 5% of earners, ignore the very regressive effects of cigarette tax increases:

The overwhelming majority of cigarette taxes are paid by low-income households. In a recession, you’d think lawmakers would want to give these folks a break. But, lawmakers’ habits are hard to break even when it is clear that tax increases don’t raise any new revenue.

Cigarette taxes are also models of foolish static tax analyses, promising more revenue than they deliver, for this very reason:

In 2006, New Jersey raised its already high cigarette tax, thinking it would bring in an extra $30 million a year. It didn’t. Worse, it caused their actual collections to drop by more than $20 million. The tax increase threw the state’s budget off by $50 million, money that had to be made up by other taxpayers. This isn’t unique to the Garden State. Since 2003, there have been 57 cigarette tax increases across the country. In 37 (68 percent) of those cases revenues failed to meet projections.

Why?  Higher taxes depress sales.  In static analysis, no one accounts for the depressive effect of tax increases, which routinely means that tax increase revenue projections fail to match reality.  When the squeeze disproportionately hits people who have less disposable income, the greater the difference will be.

But planners have learned this lesson, right?  No.  Individual states have already begun planning cigarette tax increases in Illinois and in Florida, where a Republican has sponsored the increase.  That will lead legislatures to allocate spending based on the inflated projections of static analyses.  And when those revenues fall short — as they will with the S-CHIP tax as well — government won’t stop spending the money.  They’ll just look for more ways to take out of the taxpayers’ hides.


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Comment pages: 1 2

A while back here in Missouri, a state legislator introduced the “Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is” law, which basically said that any city was perfectly able to have smoking bans, but they would not be allowed to collect taxes from sales of tobacco if they did.

I wonder where that bill ended up at……?

JamesLee on March 13, 2009 at 6:09 PM

In static analysis, no one accounts for the depressive effect of tax increases, which routinely means that tax increase revenue projections fail to match reality.

Obama is about to find out that this principle will apply across the economy. The revenue projections he expects from raising taxes on the rich will end up with the same results that NJ has with their cigarette debacle.

Higher taxes= Less overall revenue.

Why this is so hard to understand baffles me.

Tman on March 13, 2009 at 6:11 PM

Another similar tax story is the gas tax.

1) Raise gas tax to get people to drive fuel efficient vehicles.
2) People buy and drive fuel efficient vehicles.
3) Politcians cry that not enough revenue is being generated because people bought and are driving fuel efficient vehicles
4) Propose to tax vehicles per mile.

WashJeff on March 13, 2009 at 6:12 PM

WashJeff on March 13, 2009 at 6:12 PM

Dang it, you beat me to it!
Destroy the government: stop smoking and drive an electric car!

redshirt on March 13, 2009 at 6:14 PM

heh…a lot of Bambi’s target audience smokes and is angry as hell about the hike on top of state hikes…

sven10077 on March 13, 2009 at 6:14 PM

Glad I quit smoking.

tru2tx on March 13, 2009 at 6:15 PM

don’t smoke :)

Magnus on March 13, 2009 at 6:18 PM

However, if people actually did stop smoking, it would bankrupt government,….

Now there is an idea……

Seven Percent Solution on March 13, 2009 at 6:19 PM

However, if people actually did stop smoking, it would bankrupt government, which needs a large smoking tax base to provide billions in cash on state and federal levels.

Not to mention the actuarial tables which inform Social Security and Medicare planning and assume large numbers of people will die prematurely from smoking-induced cancers. If people stopped smoking, they’d live longer and (further) bankrupt those two entitlements. The government is in the ridiculous position of 1) saying they want to help people stop smoking and be healthier, and 2) depending on large numbers them to keep smoking and die prematurely.

BananaSlug on March 13, 2009 at 6:21 PM

Invest in cigarette rolling machines and rolling paper companies. Smokers will start rolling their own soon. Black market tobacco will rise. It will start a whole new front in the “war on drugs”. Another brilliant move of the Obama administration.

Guardian on March 13, 2009 at 6:22 PM

WashJeff on March 13, 2009 at 6:12 PM

The ever so generous Gov. Bill Richardson was so giddy about all the extra cash rolling in when gas was $4.00/gal. last summer that he pushed through a rebate to the citizens of NM (I got a check for $389). Then when gas prices cratered the state ended up in the hole over the deal. This gave me a chuckle.

Now that they’ve seen that people will tolerate $4.00/gal. gas, they will have noooooo hesistation to jack up the tax. And that is the true definition of a windfall (i.e. getting money with absolutely no effort expended).

No further evidence is needed that the government is not concerned about health or the environment with these things. They are concerned about $$$$. Period.

rockhead on March 13, 2009 at 6:24 PM

Last night my mother called and asked me to stop smoking.

Normally I hate that kind of whining so I gave her my new favorite retort:

I’m doing it for the children.

myrenovations on March 13, 2009 at 6:24 PM

My neighbor said that he drove an hour to one of the local reservations last week and picked up 3 cartons for $62. I paid $72 for the last carton of cloves that I bought at the local smoke shop. The homeless that buy papers and loose tobacco will see their prices double, but millionaires like Pelosi and Obama will pay nothing.

The only difference between the price of smokes and a trip to starbucks is the taxes on the tobacco.

rw on March 13, 2009 at 6:25 PM

Yup, they came for me and you said nothing. Soon they’ll come for you. See how you folks like it.

On a more serious note, I’ve already placed my cigarette order with M-13; they ship FedEx 2 day and it’s free!!!

But really serious now, as I mentioned before, I am growing my own this year. They haven’t thought of taxing that … yet. I know, I know, I’m screwing some poor uninsured kid, but it is the kid whose parents own that $600,000 home they don’t pay the morgage on.

Dusty on March 13, 2009 at 6:26 PM

Soros is a heavy smoker. Was this the only decision he was not consulted on?

sherry on March 13, 2009 at 6:28 PM

The worst politician is the one doing something ‘for your own good’.

If that were the case, my replying with a .45 bullet to their head should not be any more of a crime than what they do.

GarandFan on March 13, 2009 at 6:28 PM

Black market tobacco will rise. It will start a whole new front in the “war on drugs”. Another brilliant move of the Obama administration.

Guardian on March 13, 2009 at 6:22 PM

There already exists a tobacco black market and Muslim Fanatics are using it for jihad financing.

myrenovations on March 13, 2009 at 6:29 PM

I only smoke when I drink, so I should be okay.

SCOOPTHIScarlos on March 13, 2009 at 6:31 PM

So what does a pack of cigarettes cost these days anyway?

anniekc on March 13, 2009 at 6:33 PM

There already exists a tobacco black market and Muslim Fanatics are using it for jihad financing.

myrenovations on March 13, 2009 at 6:29 PM

And Obama is feeding it. Why am I not surprised?

Guardian on March 13, 2009 at 6:34 PM

republicans lose on s-chip…who wants to deny poor kids access to medicine?

ernesto on March 13, 2009 at 6:35 PM

Can you still buy cigarettes/tobacco online from Indian Native American Reservations Tribes………?

……… ain’t America just dandy?

Seven Percent Solution on March 13, 2009 at 6:36 PM

anniekc on March 13, 2009 at 6:33 PM

Walking home here in Chicago, I just saw a sign in a quik-mart – $9.99 per pack.

sherry on March 13, 2009 at 6:37 PM

However, if people actually did stop smoking, it would bankrupt government,….

In case you haven’t been payin’ attention they are already….

thomasaur on March 13, 2009 at 6:38 PM

Can you still buy cigarettes/tobacco online from Indian Native American Reservations Tribes………?

The state of WA was forcing the reservations to give up their shipping records and then billing state residents $10/pack for evading the taxes. The Seattle Times ran a couple of stories about guys getting $8k tax bills from the state.

rw on March 13, 2009 at 6:41 PM

However, if people actually did stop smoking, it would bankrupt government,….

In case you haven’t been payin’ attention they are already….

thomasaur on March 13, 2009 at 6:38 PM

Think about all the people now on medicare/Medicaid with all kinds of cancers, lung problems, and other ailments caused by smoking. Who is paying for that? Us.

Magnus on March 13, 2009 at 6:43 PM

The upshot is that if you don’t smoke, you hate kids and you want them to die for lack of government healthcare programs. Smoking is patriotic.

whitetop on March 13, 2009 at 6:45 PM

So what does a pack of cigarettes cost these days anyway?

anniekc on March 13, 2009 at 6:33 PM

A pack of Mavericks (off brand) costs $4.72 here in Ohio, as of this week.

myrenovations on March 13, 2009 at 6:45 PM

You want to stop a lot of smoking? Just have them list all the chemicals used to treat tobacco. A formaldehyde listing would work much better than the Surgeon General’s warning.

And wasn’t all that tobacco lawsuit money supposed to be used for smoking cessation/discouragement programs? Is any state still using any of the money for that? Ohio isn’t.

rbj on March 13, 2009 at 6:46 PM

Think about all the people now on medicare/Medicaid with all kinds of cancers, lung problems, and other ailments caused by smoking. Who is paying for that? Us.

Magnus on March 13, 2009 at 6:43 PM

But I am paying into social security and medicare and I won’t live long enough to use them much.

myrenovations on March 13, 2009 at 6:46 PM

Think about all the people now on medicare/Medicaid with all kinds of cancers, lung problems, and other ailments caused by smoking. Who is paying for that? Us.

Magnus on March 13, 2009 at 6:43 PM

smoking tax is just another Federal Ponzi scheme dude….those smokers paid taxes, hell in many cases prior to better oncology they died with minimal care….

take your observation to its logical conclusion…

sven10077 on March 13, 2009 at 6:47 PM

It was shocking enough to come back to VT after living in TN from 2001-2006, and paying $3-4 for name brands. But it’s been like $7 (after taxes) for them up here in VT for at least the last 3 or 4 years. The cheapos are even well over $5.

RightWinged on March 13, 2009 at 6:47 PM

Personally I think if the government has billions to send to Palestinians and Israel, every child in this country should have access to free or low cost healthcare.

Magnus on March 13, 2009 at 6:48 PM

Ohio isn’t.

rbj on March 13, 2009 at 6:46 PM

every state puts its tax in the general fund to whatever degree, further every state did what Ohio did and put the tobacco money from the federal case into the general fund burdening the budget with unsustainable spending just like Louisiana keeps trying with Katrina/Rita money

sven10077 on March 13, 2009 at 6:49 PM

I smoke and am mad as hell.

Thankfully I don’t eat chips or out at fast foot restaurants…that tax will be coming soon
…for your own good; and your health and all ya’ know
/sarc

tehd on March 13, 2009 at 6:49 PM

In addition to being patriotic and paying for children’s health care, I am also paying an extra cigarette tax to pay for the arts in my county.

So I am patriotic and cultured.

myrenovations on March 13, 2009 at 6:50 PM

oh forgot to add-I’m not a big drinker either-tax away!
(you know I’m just trying to make a point)

tehd on March 13, 2009 at 6:51 PM

Is it racist for me to recognize that this is just going to create a black market?

Down here in the South, were everyone is an idiot and we all have sex with our daughters, many stores are being robbed and guess what’s being stolen…

Did you use your context clues and guess already?

The answer is cigarettes.

Dorvillian on March 13, 2009 at 6:53 PM

Well I had to put my baby girl on government insurance when we both found ourselves out of work at the same time. My mother and sister still smoke so they have her tab *L*

Magnus on March 13, 2009 at 6:55 PM

Personally I think if the government has billions to send to Palestinians and Israel, every child in this country should have access to free or low cost healthcare.

Magnus on March 13, 2009 at 6:48 PM

every child does….ask Evil BOOOOSSSHHH about it…

sven10077 on March 13, 2009 at 6:59 PM

Mandated health care will mean mandated health, and people who smoke or who have smoked will be triaged out of the National Socialist health care system, along with the obese and those with diabetes and multiple sclerosis and Down’s syndrome, and then…

First they came after those who smoke, and then those who eat doughnuts, and then those with birth defects and then… Euthanasia here we come!

Dhuka on March 13, 2009 at 7:01 PM

Click the link to the story in the St Petersburg Times and in the comments, most are complaining “why cigarettes? Why not tax sodas too?” And they are serious.

Their focus should not be on WHICH sin or other taxes to raise, but HOW the gov’t is spending our money. This whole issue of tax the rich, tax the smokers is bullshit. Congress you want me to give you more money? Then YOU MUST CUT YOUR BUDGET. And not just cut the amount of INCREASE over last year’s.

I agree with Dusty’s comment – First they came for the Smokers ….

mdenis39 on March 13, 2009 at 7:03 PM

The overwhelming majority of cigarette taxes are paid by low-income households. In a recession, you’d think lawmakers would want to give these folks a break. But, lawmakers’ habits are hard to break even when it is clear that tax increases don’t raise any new revenue.

According to the conservative manifesto, We have that taxed industries generate less revenue and are less robust. My standard says cigarette taxes are not low enough — especially since the tobacco companies are successfully preying on the poor, given the quoted statement.

I’d like the whole industry to die. But, since that isn’t possible (I expect the entire South, black and white, would unite over this as they never managed to do over slavery), I’m willing to let the government run roughshod over it.

unclesmrgol on March 13, 2009 at 7:03 PM

Mandated health care will mean mandated health, and people who smoke or who have smoked will be triaged out of the National Socialist health care system, along with the obese and those with diabetes and multiple sclerosis and Down’s syndrome, and then…

First they came after those who smoke, and then those who eat doughnuts, and then those with birth defects and then… Euthanasia here we come!

Dhuka on March 13, 2009 at 7:01 PM

Healthcare pros are already calling BambiCare “stealthcare”….

got an aunt or grandma or parent who needs a new hip???

New regs look like they’ll have a small window and then a very stringent q+a session to get it….

the funny thing is that “free healthcare for the poor” is part of why the costs skyrocketed out of proportion to inflation anyway….

sven10077 on March 13, 2009 at 7:03 PM

As a former smoker of 35 years, I stopped because of the smell. But if all smokers would band togeather an stop for one week. This would put the skids on alot of these taxes. But Americans won’t join a fight against their goverment.

Alex Martinez on March 13, 2009 at 7:04 PM

Why does he look darker in that picture?

getalife on March 13, 2009 at 7:05 PM

Why does he look darker in that picture?

getalife on March 13, 2009 at 7:05 PM

he’s like Dr. Manhattan and can alter his color at will with a wink and a tonal inflection….

sven10077 on March 13, 2009 at 7:07 PM

Mandated health care wil

l mean mandated health, and people who smoke or who have smoked will be triaged out of the National Socialist health care system, along with the obese and those with diabetes and multiple sclerosis and Down’s syndrome, and then…

First they came after those who smoke, and then those who eat doughnuts, and then those with birth defects and then… Euthanasia here we come!

Dhuka on March 13, 2009 at 7:01 PM

I think that is a little hysterical. People with DS, MS, Birth Defects usually didn’t participate in some vice that cause those diseases. Smokers do. I know, I used to do it.

Magnus on March 13, 2009 at 7:07 PM

When I was waiting to have my car inspected yesterday (in MA) I was absolutely astounded to see that cigs were $8.50 a pack.
Glad I suddenly lost my taste for them a couple of years ago…

racecar05 on March 13, 2009 at 7:11 PM

I think that is a little hysterical. People with DS, MS, Birth Defects usually didn’t participate in some vice that cause those diseases. Smokers do. I know, I used to do it.

Magnus on March 13, 2009 at 7:07 PM

You really think so?

I suggest you check out eugenics, euthanasia, and modern EUtopian medical theory….

when government provides all your needs brutal math follows…

sven10077 on March 13, 2009 at 7:12 PM

In reality, they needed a big new revenue stream to pay for another giveaway, and decided to get it from smokers.

Ed Morrissey

A fair question is, where will the money come from when everybody quits smoking? Oh, I think I know were it will come from, the next thing on the list. Maybe butter, or chocolate or soft drinks, they will find something, you can be sure of that.

The nanny state Democrats love poor people so much that they are making more of them with their obscene and confiscatory taxes. Forever buying more votes with your money, that’s what Democrats do. Of course they will say they are only trying to help you.

Maxx on March 13, 2009 at 7:13 PM

Dusty on March 13, 2009 at 6:26 PM

Don’t boast too loudly about growing your own. Tobacco is a commodity that is taxed from the cradle to the grave. If you think you can grow your own and lawfully avoid paying the taxes due to the government for you small stash, I believe you would be seriously mistaken.

ericdijon on March 13, 2009 at 7:13 PM

……you just keep on smoking there BO!

try again later on March 13, 2009 at 7:14 PM

I think that is a little hysterical.

[Magnus on March 13, 2009 at 7:07 PM]

What was the cause for your 20 year coma and who jiggled the bed?

Dusty on March 13, 2009 at 7:14 PM

Smokers who voted for Obama should be happy. He isn’t raising their taxes, he is soaking the rich … LOL.

The ignorants will never learn. Their free stuff should be coming right along, be patient, it could take as long as the 2012 election to get it delivered.

tarpon on March 13, 2009 at 7:15 PM

You really think so?

I suggest you check out eugenics, euthanasia, and modern EUtopian medical theory….

when government provides all your needs brutal math follows…

sven10077 on March 13, 2009 at 7:12 PM

Well I know at one point we were force sterilizing people with mental retardation…

Magnus on March 13, 2009 at 7:16 PM

Think about all the people now on medicare/Medicaid with all kinds of cancers, lung problems, and other ailments caused by smoking. Who is paying for that? Us.

Magnus on March 13, 2009 at 6:43 PM

If that is true, its YOUR fault. For allowing the collectivist schemes to grow and grow within our government. Under true capitalism everybody pays their own bills. So blame yourself and your socialist overlords for that.

Maxx on March 13, 2009 at 7:18 PM

Well I know at one point we were force sterilizing people with mental retardation…

Magnus on March 13, 2009 at 7:16 PM

any level of insanity, any overt deformity etc etc etc….

research who the eugenacists were and get back to me…

sven10077 on March 13, 2009 at 7:18 PM

[ericdijon on March 13, 2009 at 7:13 PM]

Do you have a citation to that effect? I’ve done some research, granted not in-depth, on it and there is nothing to indicate that is so … yet. Seeds and plants are sold openly without the tax applied so if this is so, the law would be such I would be required to pay it after I smoke it.

Dusty on March 13, 2009 at 7:21 PM

Yup, they came for me and you said nothing. Soon they’ll come for you. See how you folks like it.

On a more serious note, I’ve already placed my cigarette order with M-13; they ship FedEx 2 day and it’s free!!!

But really serious now, as I mentioned before, I am growing my own this year. They haven’t thought of taxing that … yet. I know, I know, I’m screwing some poor uninsured kid, but it is the kid whose parents own that $600,000 home they don’t pay the morgage on.

Dusty on March 13, 2009 at 6:26 PM

What is this M-13 you speak of? link?

Joe Caps on March 13, 2009 at 7:21 PM

Tax Beer. (sarc.)

Clyde5445 on March 13, 2009 at 7:22 PM

GOVERNMENT IS BIG TOBACCO

originalpechanga on March 13, 2009 at 7:23 PM

What is this M-13 you speak of? link?

Joe Caps on March 13, 2009 at 7:21 PM

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-01-05-gang-grows_x.htm

sven10077 on March 13, 2009 at 7:23 PM

Can I BUM a smoke??

N F W they’re too expensive.

originalpechanga on March 13, 2009 at 7:25 PM

Tax Beer. (sarc.)

Clyde5445 on March 13, 2009 at 7:22 PM

They already do, a lot. And Oregon wants to raise taxes (150%) on the craft brewries.

myrenovations on March 13, 2009 at 7:27 PM

So what does a pack of cigarettes cost these days anyway?

anniekc on March 13, 2009 at 6:33 PM

Folks in Chicago/Cook County, if able, jump across the county line or ride over to Indiana for smokes. Major difference in price. $32 bucks a carton in Indiana, don’t have a clue about Cook County.

But……when I took a cruise in December to the Mexican Rivera, “duty free” smokes were 3 cartons for $44 bucks and in the airport in Costa Rica last week the price was $20 bucks a carton.

This means I either quit, or take a lot of cruises.

Black market anyone? Another issue for LE to deal with.

Knucklehead on March 13, 2009 at 7:27 PM

As Obama says, the higher taxes are not for more government income, they are for re-distribution of wealth.

Johan Klaus on March 13, 2009 at 7:32 PM

Personally I think if the government has billions to send to Palestinians and Israel, every child in this country should have access to free or low cost healthcare.

Magnus on March 13, 2009 at 6:48 PM

Well, if kid’s parents are going to get off the hook for being responsible for their own children, then I think I should get free cigarettes. Oh, and I’d like a new house too.

Maxx on March 13, 2009 at 7:33 PM

$7 & “change” here on Long Island for Marlboros. I smoke, I know it`s no good for me but that is MY decision to make…not the nanny state`s. I curse the teflon hypocrite every morn as I shell out more of MY hard earned $$$ for a pack. Sad/funny thing is, he can crank the tobacco excise tax to Mars and HE smokes (but WE pay…over&over)

NY Conservative on March 13, 2009 at 7:39 PM

Well, if kid’s parents are going to get off the hook for being responsible for their own children, then I think I should get free cigarettes. Oh, and I’d like a new house too.

Maxx on March 13, 2009 at 7:33 PM

Why is it you guys value the well being and health of a fetus but don’t value the health and well being of children beyond their births?

You want irresponsible, incapable, or neglectful parents to birth their children because their innocent, but then its okay with you if those innocent children lack basic needs because they’ve been birthed by said parents?

Magnus on March 13, 2009 at 7:40 PM

I believe it is our patriotic duty to pay as few taxes as possible.

Patriotic, because it will help prevent the takeover of the country by the government.

Alana on March 13, 2009 at 7:40 PM

You want irresponsible, incapable, or neglectful parents to birth their children because their innocent, but then its okay with you if those innocent children lack basic needs because they’ve been birthed by said parents?

Wouldn’t it make more sense to abort the irresponsible, incapable and neglectful parents instead of their children?

rw on March 13, 2009 at 7:45 PM

Wouldn’t it make more sense to abort the irresponsible, incapable and neglectful parents instead of their children?

rw on March 13, 2009 at 7:45 PM

Okay so you kill their parents, The government has to take care of them anyway, or is your home open to orphans?

Magnus on March 13, 2009 at 7:47 PM

The SCHIP didn’t bother me until the last increase that defines a child as someone up to age 30 and covers families making $180,000 per year.

I want people to have children, we need to keep up in the demographic race. I’ll suck it up and pay an extra tax on the habit that I enjoy so that we have a healthier generation of children.

But the government is making a mistake banking on cigarette taxes and the programs won’t go away if smokers quit.

I don’t like sin taxes at all, but anyone who is fine with the smokers getting the extra tax is fooling themselves if they think the government won’t come for one of their vices one day.

myrenovations on March 13, 2009 at 7:48 PM

The single largest revenue source for the government is cigarette taxes, oh and the tobacco settlement money that was to be used to offset costs for tobacco related health problems (yeahsureright) was piddled away on midnight basketball. Tobacco tax are the ultimate taxation without representation.

RJS2 on March 13, 2009 at 7:48 PM

Dusty on March 13, 2009 at 7:21 PM

I won’t bother looking up a citation any further than asking if you have ever seen or heard of “The Dukes of Hazard.” If so, are you familiar with the role of the revenuers? Doesn’t matter if you make ’shine for personal consumption, it matters if you pay the tax that rides the coattails of it. Liquor or tobacco are simply conveyances for the tax stream.

ericdijon on March 13, 2009 at 7:48 PM

If you think the per pack price is going up, try buying roll-your-own tobacco after the tax hike. It’s exorbitant.

I don’t smoke, but dang, this is insane.

Montana on March 13, 2009 at 7:49 PM

The SCHIP didn’t bother me until the last increase that defines a child as someone up to age 30 and covers families making $180,000 per year.

myrenovations on March 13, 2009 at 7:48 PM

This is my only problem with it too. Although I don’t mind as a generally principle all children having the option of healthcare at no cost. We spend so much money on pure crap. The idea generally doesn’t bother me and I’d be happy for my tax dollars to go towards something like that.

Magnus on March 13, 2009 at 7:54 PM

Why is it you guys value the well being and health of a fetus but don’t value the health and well being of children beyond their births?

Magnus on March 13, 2009 at 7:40 PM

When and where did I say I did not value the health and well being of children? Don’t try to put words in my mouth, my comments suggest no such thing.

You want irresponsible, incapable, or neglectful parents to birth their children because their innocent, but then its okay with you if those innocent children lack basic needs because they’ve been birthed by said parents?

Magnus on March 13, 2009 at 7:40 PM

No, I want to quit subsidizing irresponsibility and the only way to do that…. is to simply do it and knock off all the giveaway programs. We encourage people to be irresponsible and then we wonder why we have so many more irresponsible people.

And its loony leftist socialistic ideas, that you obviously adore, that has caused these problems escalate exponentially over the last half century.

Where it leads is we will eventually all be poor, who will help the poor then?

Maxx on March 13, 2009 at 7:56 PM

I believe that in one of those “money” packages there was $70 million for smoking cessation programs. Whatever happened to those billions in tobacco settlements?

Tom

marinetbryant on March 13, 2009 at 7:58 PM

republicans lose on s-chip…who wants to deny poor kids access to medicine?

ernesto on March 13, 2009 at 6:35 PM

We do. Make the little bastards get jobs.

Okay, now back in the real world……

What a terrible place your home (bizaro world?) must be. In ours (America), any child (or any adult) can get health care. You cannot be turned away for inability to pay. It’s the law – look it up. We can’t even turn away people who came here illegally, hauling drugs.

There’s nothing morally wrong in the fact that some people can pay for better doctors, just as there’s nothing wrong that I drive a Kia, and you can afford a Rolls Royce. Freedom is more important than everyone being mandated equally poor.

Stick that in your pipe and smoke it (assuming you can afford to smoke).

Squiggy on March 13, 2009 at 8:00 PM

{Joe Caps on March 13, 2009 at 7:21 PM}

I was implying drug gangs and was being sarcastic (though it’s coming soon to a street corner near you).

But Sven had a link to a story in case you missed it.

[ericdijon on March 13, 2009 at 7:48 PM]

Dude, please don’t get your information about the real world from television programs. Which reminds me of the people I know who immigrated here and were either sheepishly surprised or downright upset that life for city living twentysomethings in America didn’t measure up to what was portrayed by Sex in the City … “Where’s the 2,000SF apartments?” … “Where’s all the high paying jobs?” “Where’s the American Dream life?”

TV rots your brain.

Dusty on March 13, 2009 at 8:07 PM

I thought we weren’t into punishing children for their parents irresponsibility?

Isn’t that the argument against abortion? What would be your solution to stop irresponsible women from terminating their pregnancies? Especially if they know they won’t have any help after the child is born?

Poverty does not stop irresponsible pregnancies and births. Actually the reverse is happening. The very poor around the world, who usually don’t even have a welfare system like ours and are just on their own, are having a population explosion, their children dying from easily treatable viruses, diseases and starvation, while the well off/educated or responsible births are in rapid decline.

Magnus on March 13, 2009 at 8:08 PM

REVOLT-RECALL-REPEAL
Tax REVOLT 2009 John and Ken Show 640KFI
Ciggs now cost $5.60 per pack in Ca. This is coming to you once again.
For those that wanted to punish smokers, when they can’t find smokers they will come for you.
Why do we have so many ignorant voters in America ?
show your anger, Support Heavy Metal radio in talk radio and the EIB

MALICIOUS DISORDER on March 13, 2009 at 8:12 PM

We do. Make the little bastards get jobs.

Okay, now back in the real world……

What a terrible place your home (bizaro world?) must be. In ours (America), any child (or any adult) can get health care. You cannot be turned away for inability to pay. It’s the law – look it up. We can’t even turn away people who came here illegally, hauling drugs.

There’s nothing morally wrong in the fact that some people can pay for better doctors, just as there’s nothing wrong that I drive a Kia, and you can afford a Rolls Royce. Freedom is more important than everyone being mandated equally poor.

Stick that in your pipe and smoke it (assuming you can afford to smoke).

Squiggy on March 13, 2009 at 8:00 PM

Well here is the problem with that. I’d rather pay a few extra cents on a box of cigarettes then have my ER bills jacked up 2-3 times their amount so the hospital can mitigate the damage of people without insurance using the ER for sore throats and ear aches.

Magnus on March 13, 2009 at 8:14 PM

woah, woah, woah, WOAH!! So, they increased the amount per pack due to the coming tax increase, and they did it early to avoid a run on cigs…which I understand to a point. HOWEVER, if the tax isn’t in effect but the price went up anyway…where’s all the extra dough going? How is this not a lame excuse for EXTREME price gouging? Maybe I missed something, but it looks like every smoker will get hosed for the next few weeks.

brainy435 on March 13, 2009 at 8:15 PM

republicans lose on s-chip…who wants to deny poor kids access to medicine?

ernesto on March 13, 2009 at 6:35 PM

If they’re actually kids (as opposed to the 30-year olds elibigle under S-Chip), and if they’re really poor, then they were already eligible for government-paid healthcare under Medicaid.

We didn’t need (and can’t afford) another “free” healthcare program for irresponsible young adults, illegal aliens, and middle-class types with substantial incomes who just don’t feel like paying for their own health insurance — which is what S-Chip is.

AZCoyote on March 13, 2009 at 8:17 PM

I can support Heavy Metal Radio, my job made me cut off my mohawk ;)

Magnus on March 13, 2009 at 8:18 PM

I thought we weren’t into punishing children for their parents irresponsibility?

Magnus on March 13, 2009 at 8:08 PM

Kids are ALWAYS punished for their parents irresponsibility. That’s unavoidable. And this is the reason we need to stop encouraging irresponsibility.

Isn’t that the argument against abortion? What would be your solution to stop irresponsible women from terminating their pregnancies? Especially if they know they won’t have any help after the child is born?

Magnus on March 13, 2009 at 8:08 PM

Adoption.

Poverty does not stop irresponsible pregnancies and births.

Magnus on March 13, 2009 at 8:08 PM

Whoever said it did?

Actually the reverse is happening. The very poor around the world, who usually don’t even have a welfare system like ours and are just on their own, are having a population explosion, their children dying from easily treatable viruses, diseases and starvation, while the well off/educated or responsible births are in rapid decline.

Magnus on March 13, 2009 at 8:08 PM

I’m not sure if that is true but if it is, we Americans could do a lot more to help if we stopped encouraging irresponsibility here at home. That means… no more socialism. The Biblical concept is… you don’t work, you don’t eat. And government needs to get out of the charity business, there is no Constitutional authority for it and its anathema to the founding ideas of this Republic.

Maxx on March 13, 2009 at 8:24 PM

If they’re actually kids (as opposed to the 30-year olds elibigle under S-Chip), and if they’re really poor, then they were already eligible for government-paid healthcare under Medicaid.

We didn’t need (and can’t afford) another “free” healthcare program for irresponsible young adults, illegal aliens, and middle-class types with substantial incomes who just don’t feel like paying for their own health insurance — which is what S-Chip is.

AZCoyote on March 13, 2009 at 8:17 PM

What about people that don’t qualify for Medicaid (I think the household can’t be making over 30,000 for a family of three) but can’t afford to pay 1000 dollars a month for insurance? When I was shopping for insurance one adult had to be covered in order to cover the dependent. There are some people that work and have had their benefits cut or cut out completely.

In Georgia we have PeachCare(which is a function of SCHIP) and Wellcare(Which is Medicaid) for children. Peachcare you pay 5-30 dollars a month based on your income for your child, Medicaid is free. If the above type of people need this resources I’m okay with my tax dollars going to it.

The only thing I have a problem with is the expansion of SCHIP if its function is to help people that can’t afford healthcare for their children. Either you give it everyone or only people that need it. Its bull that someone making 6 figures a year can’t get healthcare for their children and families. If I wasn’t already living in an apartment or driving a piece of junk car, if I was making that kinda of money and still couldn’t afford to provide healthcare for my children I’d sell my house and get a piece of crap car so I could.

Magnus on March 13, 2009 at 8:29 PM

You want irresponsible, incapable, or neglectful parents to birth their children because their innocent, but then its okay with you if those innocent children lack basic needs because they’ve been birthed by said parents?

[Magnus on March 13, 2009 at 7:40 PM]

“and even more drivel”

[Magnus on March 13, 2009 at 8:08 PM]

No, I want irresponsible, incapable or neglectful parents to birth their children because those fetuses are human beings. Then I want them to be responsible, capable and not neglectful or they won’t get any of my freakin’ hard earned money “for the children.”

I’ll tell you what. I’ll pay the tax and some additional to hire all the drill sergeants needed show up at 5:30 AM and make them work for 14 hours a day which leaves them time to eat two meals, get in some family time helping their kids study, and then sleep for 6 hours. That way, I’ll know they are putting in my kind of day and they won’t be on the dole for more than six months.

In ten years no one will need to ask the government to steal my money to give to them.

Dusty on March 13, 2009 at 8:30 PM

where’s all the extra dough going?
brainy435 on March 13, 2009 at 8:15 PM

I hope the extra dough is going to the company for profit since they don’t make nearly as much as the government does.

Which would be good since the federal government took some of their tobacco settlement money and invested it in a fund that holds tobacco stocks.

myrenovations on March 13, 2009 at 8:32 PM

Dusty on March 13, 2009 at 8:07 PM

Sorry, I felt I selected the best practical terms to share with you. I didn’t realize you needed something still simpler. Exams must have sucked this semester. Here is a website devoted to it.

ericdijon on March 13, 2009 at 8:32 PM

I think that is a little hysterical. People with DS, MS, Birth Defects usually didn’t participate in some vice that cause those diseases. Smokers do. I know, I used to do it.

Magnus on March 13, 2009 at 7:07 PM

We abort “defective” babies all the time. We starve “irreparably brain damaged” adults. Now you may believe that I’m being sensationalistic here, but you have to agree that this DOES go on. Euthanasia isn’t as far off a concept as you might think.

john1schn on March 13, 2009 at 8:40 PM

Yeah NYs Bloomberg hates smokers. A pack in NYC is $10 because he keeps raising the tax saying people should quit. But in the next breath says the city needs the cash. So What is it, Stop smoking no tax money. Let people smoke for more tax money. You cant have it both ways.

Greed on March 13, 2009 at 8:41 PM

After the state tax increases a couple years ago I got a cig-stuffing machine and started buying tubes and bulk tobacco. Cheaper and fewer chemicals.

Now with the S-Chip thing they realized the roll your own community really took off after their other tax hikes, so they’re adding $24 more tax to a $15 pound of tobacco which is partially tax already.

Cowboy is a compliment on March 13, 2009 at 8:44 PM

Maxx,

If adoption was that readily available, then we wouldn’t have the thousands and thousands of unwanted or removed babies and children still stuck in the foster care and orphanage system. Which your also paying for their health care anyways.

That system is so over-taxed and there are more children in it then there are adoptions or foster parents. That entire system is broken.

Magnus on March 13, 2009 at 8:50 PM

Invest in cigarette rolling machines and rolling paper companies. Smokers will start rolling their own soon.

Won’t work. The largest tax increase in SCHIP is on RYO (roll your own) tobaccos. The tax increased from $1.10/lb to $24.78/lb. It also went up on cigarette papers and tubes over 100%.

Taxes on snuff, small and large cigars and chewing and pipe tobaccos also increased substantially.

BacaDog on March 13, 2009 at 8:55 PM

If adoption was that readily available, then we wouldn’t have the thousands and thousands of unwanted or removed babies and children still stuck in the foster care and orphanage system. Which your also paying for their health care anyways.
Magnus on March 13, 2009 at 8:50 PM

Actually, part of that problem is due to the fact that we don’t act quickly enough to sever parental rights. There are people wanting to adopt their foster kids, but the parents won’t give them up and the courts won’t force them.

myrenovations on March 13, 2009 at 8:56 PM

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