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	<title>Comments on: Afghan Army bigger, better than advertised</title>
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		<title>By: OscarSchneegans</title>
		<link>http://hotair.com/archives/2009/03/12/afghan-army-bigger-better-than-advertised/comment-page-1/#comment-1978823</link>
		<dc:creator>OscarSchneegans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 11:13:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Steve Z on March 12, 2009 at 4:17 PM

&lt;blockquote&gt;...why are so many Afghans illiterate? Because the Taliban (which ironically means “students”) only let people read the Koran...&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Close, but not quite accurate.  The Taliban didn&#039;t even allow people to read the Koran, because the Taliban, like most orthodox Muslims, believe the Koran must be read exclusively in Arabic, and few Afghans speak, much less read, Arabic.  They can&#039;t even read their own languages.

Most madrasas force students to memorize the Koran by repeating what the teacher reads.  The students may or may not understand what they&#039;re repeating.  

I&#039;ve traveled to Ethiopia and Sudan as a civilian, and Iraq and Afghanistan as a Soldier.  Afghanistan is by far the most primitive, backward country I&#039;ve ever seen.  It makes Ethiopia look like Switzerland.  When we invaded Afghanistan and committed to nation building there, we committed ourselves to a long, long struggle. I didn&#039;t understand that until I saw it for myself, and I doubt the majority of Americans did, or do.  I still believe the struggle is worth it - as long as we fight intelligently - but I wonder if the rest of the American public will be as patient.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve Z on March 12, 2009 at 4:17 PM</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8230;why are so many Afghans illiterate? Because the Taliban (which ironically means “students”) only let people read the Koran&#8230;</p></blockquote>
<p>Close, but not quite accurate.  The Taliban didn&#8217;t even allow people to read the Koran, because the Taliban, like most orthodox Muslims, believe the Koran must be read exclusively in Arabic, and few Afghans speak, much less read, Arabic.  They can&#8217;t even read their own languages.</p>
<p>Most madrasas force students to memorize the Koran by repeating what the teacher reads.  The students may or may not understand what they&#8217;re repeating.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve traveled to Ethiopia and Sudan as a civilian, and Iraq and Afghanistan as a Soldier.  Afghanistan is by far the most primitive, backward country I&#8217;ve ever seen.  It makes Ethiopia look like Switzerland.  When we invaded Afghanistan and committed to nation building there, we committed ourselves to a long, long struggle. I didn&#8217;t understand that until I saw it for myself, and I doubt the majority of Americans did, or do.  I still believe the struggle is worth it &#8211; as long as we fight intelligently &#8211; but I wonder if the rest of the American public will be as patient.</p>
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		<title>By: BHO Jonestown</title>
		<link>http://hotair.com/archives/2009/03/12/afghan-army-bigger-better-than-advertised/comment-page-1/#comment-1977321</link>
		<dc:creator>BHO Jonestown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 22:37:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hotair.com/?p=46615#comment-1977321</guid>
		<description>Obama to shall pass.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obama to shall pass.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. ZhivBlago</title>
		<link>http://hotair.com/archives/2009/03/12/afghan-army-bigger-better-than-advertised/comment-page-1/#comment-1977280</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. ZhivBlago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 22:27:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hotair.com/?p=46615#comment-1977280</guid>
		<description>I remember thinking that the new Iraqi Army actually looked like a real, modern army for a change once the Americans had trained them and they got some decent equipment.

The Communist Afghan Army under Moscow was pretty horrid, but there again, the Soviets sent in mostly their third string from the surrounding &#039;Stans as the bulk of their ground forces.

The South Vietnamese Army often got (sometimes deserved) bad rap, but there again they only buckled when U.S. air support was denied to them and their U.S. military materiel was cut off.

My point is that traditionally the U.S. trains other armies very well.

The old Soviet model was too dependent on mass and too willing to treat stalled units as expendable.  Can&#039;t do that with smaller, shakier armies and get away with it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember thinking that the new Iraqi Army actually looked like a real, modern army for a change once the Americans had trained them and they got some decent equipment.</p>
<p>The Communist Afghan Army under Moscow was pretty horrid, but there again, the Soviets sent in mostly their third string from the surrounding &#8216;Stans as the bulk of their ground forces.</p>
<p>The South Vietnamese Army often got (sometimes deserved) bad rap, but there again they only buckled when U.S. air support was denied to them and their U.S. military materiel was cut off.</p>
<p>My point is that traditionally the U.S. trains other armies very well.</p>
<p>The old Soviet model was too dependent on mass and too willing to treat stalled units as expendable.  Can&#8217;t do that with smaller, shakier armies and get away with it.</p>
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		<title>By: crosspatch</title>
		<link>http://hotair.com/archives/2009/03/12/afghan-army-bigger-better-than-advertised/comment-page-1/#comment-1977070</link>
		<dc:creator>crosspatch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 21:45:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hotair.com/?p=46615#comment-1977070</guid>
		<description>&quot;But why are so many Afghans illiterate? Because the Taliban (which ironically means “students”) only let people read the Koran, and “dumbed down” the population.&quot;

To some extent this is true but remember that the Taliban were in power for only a few years.  The people were illiterate when the Taliban took power.  There are many reasons for this, most of them cultural.  For example, the illiteracy rate among women is fairly close to 100%, or was. The Taliban didn&#039;t suddenly make all these women forget how to read.  They were illiterate when the Taliban arrived.

It is the women who have the greatest impact on children and their early learning. Educating women is a great &quot;knowledge multiplier&quot; and acts to bring up the level of knowledge of the entire population.

Until there is:

1. An educated population taught in a national language where people from all parts of the country can understand each other

2. Common cultural heritage among the regions where people across the country share common things as they grow up

3. Easy communications and travel between all parts of the country

there will be no national identity and people will still identify as primarily Pashtun, Uzbek, Turkmen, etc. as those are the people who share their common cultural heritage.  Have a common language and a common tv and radio network broadcasting news and popular shows across the country, and children will grow into adults who have more in common culturally.

There will be resistance from the local tribal lords who currently run things, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But why are so many Afghans illiterate? Because the Taliban (which ironically means “students”) only let people read the Koran, and “dumbed down” the population.&#8221;</p>
<p>To some extent this is true but remember that the Taliban were in power for only a few years.  The people were illiterate when the Taliban took power.  There are many reasons for this, most of them cultural.  For example, the illiteracy rate among women is fairly close to 100%, or was. The Taliban didn&#8217;t suddenly make all these women forget how to read.  They were illiterate when the Taliban arrived.</p>
<p>It is the women who have the greatest impact on children and their early learning. Educating women is a great &#8220;knowledge multiplier&#8221; and acts to bring up the level of knowledge of the entire population.</p>
<p>Until there is:</p>
<p>1. An educated population taught in a national language where people from all parts of the country can understand each other</p>
<p>2. Common cultural heritage among the regions where people across the country share common things as they grow up</p>
<p>3. Easy communications and travel between all parts of the country</p>
<p>there will be no national identity and people will still identify as primarily Pashtun, Uzbek, Turkmen, etc. as those are the people who share their common cultural heritage.  Have a common language and a common tv and radio network broadcasting news and popular shows across the country, and children will grow into adults who have more in common culturally.</p>
<p>There will be resistance from the local tribal lords who currently run things, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony737</title>
		<link>http://hotair.com/archives/2009/03/12/afghan-army-bigger-better-than-advertised/comment-page-1/#comment-1976857</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony737</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 21:16:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Patience and persistence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Patience and persistence.</p>
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		<title>By: burt</title>
		<link>http://hotair.com/archives/2009/03/12/afghan-army-bigger-better-than-advertised/comment-page-1/#comment-1976782</link>
		<dc:creator>burt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 21:00:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hotair.com/?p=46615#comment-1976782</guid>
		<description>I would expect that the slow advancement of the ANA is substantially due to the low literacy rate and other backwardness of Afghanistan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would expect that the slow advancement of the ANA is substantially due to the low literacy rate and other backwardness of Afghanistan.</p>
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		<title>By: coldwarrior</title>
		<link>http://hotair.com/archives/2009/03/12/afghan-army-bigger-better-than-advertised/comment-page-1/#comment-1976574</link>
		<dc:creator>coldwarrior</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 20:28:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hotair.com/?p=46615#comment-1976574</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Steve Z on March 12, 2009 at 4:17 PM&lt;/blockquote&gt;

A bit more to it than just the Taliban.  Having illiterate soldiers, an illiterate population, makes totalitarian rule so much easier.  The governments prior to the Taliban did the same.  Besides, when you are a goat-herder family living in Ghazni, or Badgah, or Shindad, what is there to read, or why read at all?

Yes, build schools, and make sure all Afghan kids get to them safely and are able to learn.  And it will take at least one generation.  Had a college professor who lives down the street last year actually say &quot;Why are we wasting money building schools in Iraq and Afghanistan?&quot;

There is illiteracy...and there is just plain ignorant.  My neighbor down the street is very literate...but is godawful stupid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Steve Z on March 12, 2009 at 4:17 PM</p></blockquote>
<p>A bit more to it than just the Taliban.  Having illiterate soldiers, an illiterate population, makes totalitarian rule so much easier.  The governments prior to the Taliban did the same.  Besides, when you are a goat-herder family living in Ghazni, or Badgah, or Shindad, what is there to read, or why read at all?</p>
<p>Yes, build schools, and make sure all Afghan kids get to them safely and are able to learn.  And it will take at least one generation.  Had a college professor who lives down the street last year actually say &#8220;Why are we wasting money building schools in Iraq and Afghanistan?&#8221;</p>
<p>There is illiteracy&#8230;and there is just plain ignorant.  My neighbor down the street is very literate&#8230;but is godawful stupid.</p>
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		<title>By: Texas Gal</title>
		<link>http://hotair.com/archives/2009/03/12/afghan-army-bigger-better-than-advertised/comment-page-1/#comment-1976540</link>
		<dc:creator>Texas Gal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 20:22:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hotair.com/?p=46615#comment-1976540</guid>
		<description>If you know anything about the history and conditions in Afghanistan, this is remarkable progress really. And I agree it will take years .. and 40 might be enough because those in their 20&#039;s now will be in their 60&#039;s then and be in the leadership roles in all of society including the military. Expectations need to be realistic and calls for leaving Afghanistan should not even be seriously entertained. 

If there was ever a reason for NATO to be expanded to the Eastern European nations regardless whether Russia agrees or likes it, is that we are going to need the manpower and the presence that the expansion will bring to this mission over the long hard decades it is going to take.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you know anything about the history and conditions in Afghanistan, this is remarkable progress really. And I agree it will take years .. and 40 might be enough because those in their 20&#8242;s now will be in their 60&#8242;s then and be in the leadership roles in all of society including the military. Expectations need to be realistic and calls for leaving Afghanistan should not even be seriously entertained. </p>
<p>If there was ever a reason for NATO to be expanded to the Eastern European nations regardless whether Russia agrees or likes it, is that we are going to need the manpower and the presence that the expansion will bring to this mission over the long hard decades it is going to take.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Z</title>
		<link>http://hotair.com/archives/2009/03/12/afghan-army-bigger-better-than-advertised/comment-page-1/#comment-1976505</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 20:17:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hotair.com/?p=46615#comment-1976505</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Most people do not understand enough of the picture. Very few, if any, of the rank and file Afghan army can do things like read a technical manual. Most of the population in Afghanistan are illiterate.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

A very interesting post. But why are so many Afghans illiterate? Because the Taliban (which ironically means &quot;students&quot;) only let people read the Koran, and &quot;dumbed down&quot; the population. Which is why NATO needs to build lots of schools in Afghanistan. If the schools are built quickly and teachers can be found, a generation of literate soldiers could be fielded within 15 or 20 years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Most people do not understand enough of the picture. Very few, if any, of the rank and file Afghan army can do things like read a technical manual. Most of the population in Afghanistan are illiterate.</p></blockquote>
<p>A very interesting post. But why are so many Afghans illiterate? Because the Taliban (which ironically means &#8220;students&#8221;) only let people read the Koran, and &#8220;dumbed down&#8221; the population. Which is why NATO needs to build lots of schools in Afghanistan. If the schools are built quickly and teachers can be found, a generation of literate soldiers could be fielded within 15 or 20 years.</p>
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		<title>By: crosspatch</title>
		<link>http://hotair.com/archives/2009/03/12/afghan-army-bigger-better-than-advertised/comment-page-1/#comment-1976382</link>
		<dc:creator>crosspatch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 19:55:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hotair.com/?p=46615#comment-1976382</guid>
		<description>Most people do not understand enough of the picture.  Very few, if any, of the rank and file Afghan army can do things like read a technical manual.  Most of the population in Afghanistan are illiterate.  Before you can build a military force, you need to give them the skills they need to even be able to be trained.  Currently they have to memorize practically everything.  They don&#039;t know how to take notes, study, research, etc.  Training must consist of a lot of pictures, lots of showing people how to do things, but there aren&#039;t a lot of notes being taken.

Even if they are literate, they might not be literate in the language they are being taught in. Pashto or Dari (Afgan Farsi) might be their second language.  And that sucks because Pashto is the &quot;offical&quot; language but business and government traditionally operate in Dari.  

So you have 30 percent native Pashto speakers, 50 percent native Dari speakers, 11 percent native Turkic speakers (Uzbek and Turkmen, mainly).  So what language is today&#039;s class handout going to be in?  But it wouldn&#039;t matter because they can&#039;t read it anyway.

We need to set our expectations correctly.  We are not going to be able to build what we would recognize as a modern military force until that country develops what we would call an identity of a modern nation state.

I predict that take about 40 years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most people do not understand enough of the picture.  Very few, if any, of the rank and file Afghan army can do things like read a technical manual.  Most of the population in Afghanistan are illiterate.  Before you can build a military force, you need to give them the skills they need to even be able to be trained.  Currently they have to memorize practically everything.  They don&#8217;t know how to take notes, study, research, etc.  Training must consist of a lot of pictures, lots of showing people how to do things, but there aren&#8217;t a lot of notes being taken.</p>
<p>Even if they are literate, they might not be literate in the language they are being taught in. Pashto or Dari (Afgan Farsi) might be their second language.  And that sucks because Pashto is the &#8220;offical&#8221; language but business and government traditionally operate in Dari.  </p>
<p>So you have 30 percent native Pashto speakers, 50 percent native Dari speakers, 11 percent native Turkic speakers (Uzbek and Turkmen, mainly).  So what language is today&#8217;s class handout going to be in?  But it wouldn&#8217;t matter because they can&#8217;t read it anyway.</p>
<p>We need to set our expectations correctly.  We are not going to be able to build what we would recognize as a modern military force until that country develops what we would call an identity of a modern nation state.</p>
<p>I predict that take about 40 years.</p>
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		<title>By: MNDavenotPC</title>
		<link>http://hotair.com/archives/2009/03/12/afghan-army-bigger-better-than-advertised/comment-page-1/#comment-1976303</link>
		<dc:creator>MNDavenotPC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 19:41:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hotair.com/?p=46615#comment-1976303</guid>
		<description>Negative comments about this from non combat experienced threaders, much less served..... in 3....2....1</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Negative comments about this from non combat experienced threaders, much less served&#8230;.. in 3&#8230;.2&#8230;.1</p>
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		<title>By: fogw</title>
		<link>http://hotair.com/archives/2009/03/12/afghan-army-bigger-better-than-advertised/comment-page-1/#comment-1976291</link>
		<dc:creator>fogw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 19:40:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hotair.com/?p=46615#comment-1976291</guid>
		<description>Did Obama say the Afghan Army is performing better?

Until he does, and the MSM blushes over his omnipotence, how can I begin to believe this is true?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did Obama say the Afghan Army is performing better?</p>
<p>Until he does, and the MSM blushes over his omnipotence, how can I begin to believe this is true?</p>
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		<title>By: coldwarrior</title>
		<link>http://hotair.com/archives/2009/03/12/afghan-army-bigger-better-than-advertised/comment-page-1/#comment-1976237</link>
		<dc:creator>coldwarrior</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 19:28:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hotair.com/?p=46615#comment-1976237</guid>
		<description>The Afghans are starting from zero...nada, nothing, and are building at a pretty good clip.

They&#039;ve a long way to go, but for the first time ever they have a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.mod.gov.af/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;national army.&lt;/a&gt;

A long way to go...but they got the right idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Afghans are starting from zero&#8230;nada, nothing, and are building at a pretty good clip.</p>
<p>They&#8217;ve a long way to go, but for the first time ever they have a <a href="http://www.mod.gov.af/" rel="nofollow">national army.</a></p>
<p>A long way to go&#8230;but they got the right idea.</p>
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		<title>By: Afghan Army bigger, better than advertised — But As For Me</title>
		<link>http://hotair.com/archives/2009/03/12/afghan-army-bigger-better-than-advertised/comment-page-1/#comment-1976205</link>
		<dc:creator>Afghan Army bigger, better than advertised — But As For Me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 19:20:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] Read this post &#187; [...]</description>
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