Great news: Democrats already gearing up for second stimulus; Update: 53% believe U.S. is entering depression
posted at 2:10 pm on March 10, 2009 by Allahpundit
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I’m confused. The first stimulus, we were assured, “created or saved” three million jobs. Do we need to create or save those jobs again so soon or will this new bill be creating or saving more?
Prediction: By 2010, The One will have “saved” every job in America.
“We are going to need more taxpayer money,” Mark Zandi, the chief economist at Moody’s Economy.com and a key economic advisor to Congressional Democrats, said after the meeting. “I think another stimulus package is a reasonable assumption because of the way things are going.”
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), standing with members of her leadership team by Zandi’s side, said she agreed that another stimulus bill is being considered as an option.
“We have to keep the door open,” Pelosi said. “The word of the day is confidence. Confidence in our markets, confidence in lending, confidence in our financial institutions.”
Nothing says confidence like an endless string of multibillion-dollar emergency bailouts. Consider this piece a timely companion to David Smick’s op-ed this morning calculating that banks may need another $2 trillion in TARP before they’re safely solvent again. Presumably that money would be on top of whatever other stimulus is to come, not part of it, so perhaps it’s time for Obama to take Smick’s advice and broadcast the mother of all fireside chats:
I suspect Obama’s advisers would like nothing more than to dismantle an irresponsible firm such as Citigroup. They are afraid to do so, for one reason: All the big banks are connected to a potentially lethal web of paper insurance instruments called credit default swaps. These paper derivatives have become our financial system’s new master…
The Obama team needs to remember that we got into this mess because of a lack of financial transparency. It’s time to tell the American people what the stock market already knows: that the path to recovery will probably be expensive and politically unpopular, perhaps explosively so.
I remember asking months ago after the grumbling about TARP began for someone, anyone, to give us a final pricetag on what it’s going to cost to fix this. Either they don’t know yet or they do know but fear that the amount’s so staggering that there’s no way they can ask for a lump sum lest even that prove to be on the low side and they’re forced to come begging for more. So they’re going to ask for it piecemeal, which is financially prudent but politically very dangerous. If you tell the public “We can fix this with $3 trillion,” you might get it; if you come begging for another $700 billion every six months, not only do you look like you don’t know what you’re doing but you might get cut off before you have all the money you need. Exit question: Which is smarter, demanding a lump sum or proceeding in stages?
Update: Ah, here’s the answer to my opening question now. Turns out Stimulus I is already a partial failure in “creating or saving” 3.5 million jobs, which is why we need Stimulus II. I wonder where that leaves us with the cost-per-job calculation. It was roughly $200,000. Anyone want to try recalculating, or at least guessing what it’ll be after Stimulus II? I’ll say, oh, $500,000.
The report by a group of economists including Mark Zandi, chief economist of Moody’s Economy.com, says the recently enacted $787 billion stimulus package will fall far short of the Obama administration’s goal of saving or creating 3.5-million jobs.
Zandi said only 2.5 million jobs will be saved or created over the next two years, and told House Democrats that a second stimulus is needed as well as more money for banking stabilization and housing.
Update: The GOP’s floating a new stimulus plan of their own. It hasn’t a prayer of passing, but you’ll find it more to your liking.
Update: Tell us again about “confidence,” Nancy.
Most Americans (53%) now think the United States is at least somewhat likely to enter a 1930’s-like depression within the next few years…
The latest results are more pessimistic than those found in early January, when 44% said a 1930’s-like depression was likely in the next few years, and 46% disagreed.
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It will not be needed but the bush depression is saved garanteed by your money.
There will be no depressions if they do not surrender like the gop wanted.
getalife on March 10, 2009 at 3:29 PM
There is an inteview with Obama from back when he was a state legislator, wherein he says that he would have no problem with the government having a 100% tax rate so long as it gave worthwhile benefits in return.
Now, I don’t see any worthwhile return from any of this government stimuli, but I can see where we will eventually have to have a 100% tax rate to pay for it all.
myrenovations on March 10, 2009 at 3:33 PM
Any upgrade from recession to depression will be on Obama’s watch. You’re just going to have to live with that.
Chuck Schick on March 10, 2009 at 3:34 PM
To SeniorD: “While Microsoft will cut approximately 5 percent of its workforce, it says its number of foreign workers on H1-B visas will remain approximately the same. Microsoft General Counsel Bradford Smith writes, “We do not expect to see a significant change in the proportion of H-1B employees in our workforce following the job reductions. The potential to tap into the world’s best minds has long been essential to our success.””
Is Mr. Bradford Smith implying that that their American workers are not among some of the world’s best minds? What a slap.
Also interesting to note is that Senator Grassley’s letter was written on Jan 22, 2009 and the next day Microsoft announced it’s delaying its plans for a massive data center to be built in Iowa. That’s 50 – 75 jobs uncreated.
marge on March 10, 2009 at 3:34 PM
The Obama Recession tumbling – because of his policies – into the Obama Depression?
Well, to paraphrase his Chief of Staff, we can’t let a good depression go to waste now, can we?
Let’s spend another $500 trillion and “create or save” 25 million jobs and see where we are.
Good Lt on March 10, 2009 at 3:36 PM
If the common folk were smart enough to understand roman numerals, we wouldn’t be in this mess.
LimeyGeek on March 10, 2009 at 3:38 PM
If the numbers are accurate it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
TheBigOldDog on March 10, 2009 at 3:38 PM
Update:
Dow up 340.
Never ever surrender to a depression.
We will be greater than ever thanks to President Obama.
getalife on March 10, 2009 at 3:39 PM
How in the hell will they collect any taxes if the rate is 100%? Who will work and give up everything to The Precedent so he can give it out as he pleases? There won’t be any income to tax!
ladyingray on March 10, 2009 at 3:39 PM
In fairness to Microsoft, the H1B market is more refined than the general American market. I can understand why they made the cuts where they did.
American gubmint education spawns technology dumbasses…
LimeyGeek on March 10, 2009 at 3:41 PM
It’s a perfect deal if you don’t plan on paying it back.
Oink on March 10, 2009 at 3:41 PM
Obama wears it all. Taxpayers have long memories. It’ll be interesting to see what an appeal for another stimulus package does to his approval ratings.
a capella on March 10, 2009 at 3:41 PM
And longer faces.
Snowed In on March 10, 2009 at 3:42 PM
Why not $500 trillion? I would love it if a politician could explain why should we limit the amount of the porkulous if we know it works. On the other hand, if there is a tipping point of diminishing returns, what is it? why?
Oops…sorry, we are not supposed to even know what’s in these bills let alone ask questions.
neuquenguy on March 10, 2009 at 3:43 PM
Yep. Tea is for sissies.
Oink on March 10, 2009 at 3:44 PM
We won’t need income when the government provides everything for us. Oh, they might give us a small weekly allowance or some such, for parking meters and campaign donations.
a capella on March 10, 2009 at 3:45 PM
Mine’s an Earl Grey.
LimeyGeek on March 10, 2009 at 3:45 PM
It seems no different from today. The koolaid drinkers don’t want to believe that Obama could be compared to someone as nasty as Lenin but they should realize that the Russian people thought Lenin was leading them in the right direction as well.
shick on March 10, 2009 at 3:46 PM
A stimulus is a f$%^*ing valuable thing.
faraway on March 10, 2009 at 3:46 PM
Let’s not throw a party just yet.
Obama inspires confidence in Wall Street.
Kai on March 10, 2009 at 3:46 PM
it just puts a smile on my face. the worse it gets, the less chance of Barky getting a second term. burn. burn it all to the ground.
Ghoul aid on March 10, 2009 at 3:48 PM
When millions of people lose their jobs over the coming months whom do you think they will blame? Bush who was President when they had a job or Obama who was/is President when they lost/lose their job?
MB4 on March 10, 2009 at 3:51 PM
Don’t you get it! All problems for the next 4 years will all be Bush’s fault!/sarcasm
shick on March 10, 2009 at 3:53 PM
Don’t feed the trolls-she cut and posted the exact same words on another thread here within minutes of these “posts”.
Del Dolemonte on March 10, 2009 at 3:55 PM
I think I am starting to get it (economics is not my forte):
If the market is down it’s the Bush recession, if the market it’s up is Obama’s greatness. I am still not getting this daily fluctuation but I will assume that it is driven by the percentage of people who wake up thinking about Bush or about Obama on a particular day.
neuquenguy on March 10, 2009 at 3:55 PM
Enough with the doom and gloom.
As long as they keep fighting and do not surrender like McCain and Shelby, there will be no depression.
Shelby and McCain cowered to Hoover thinking.
getalife on March 10, 2009 at 3:56 PM
Apples. Apples. Buy some apples.
faraway on March 10, 2009 at 3:58 PM
JiangxiDad on March 10, 2009 at 3:59 PM
Zen slap ;)
LimeyGeek on March 10, 2009 at 3:59 PM
JiangxiDad on March 10, 2009 at 4:00 PM
Sucker’s rally.
MB4 on March 10, 2009 at 4:00 PM
Honestly, I’ve been waiting for Allah to boot Tokyo Rose’s ass for weeks. What’s the problem? What’s he keeping the commie slogan-maker around for?
JiangxiDad on March 10, 2009 at 4:01 PM
I heard Citi is run by a guy named Bandit. No wonder they need money.
faraway on March 10, 2009 at 4:03 PM
I think you have just demonstrated a full understanding of the getalife school of economics. He may want to hire you on and fast track you to a tenured position.
MB4 on March 10, 2009 at 4:06 PM
Hoover jacked up taxes and trade barriers. In other words- Obamanomics.
Chuck Schick on March 10, 2009 at 4:09 PM
LOL That’s just priceless. Absolutely priceless.
scalleywag on March 10, 2009 at 4:09 PM
A good troll should make you angry….this dork makes me remember that I haven’t finished rewiring my house and that I’m out of connectors and 14-4 wire….what was I saying? Oh, yes….something about irrelevance.
LimeyGeek on March 10, 2009 at 4:10 PM
Is that located next to the Obama School of Tax Preparation?
They must have a heckuva football team, because they sure have some dumb students.
NoDonkey on March 10, 2009 at 4:12 PM
There phone’s disconnected and there’s a verminator parked outside
LimeyGeek on March 10, 2009 at 4:14 PM
*Their* phone’s disconnected….
LimeyGeek on March 10, 2009 at 4:15 PM
Because getalife, for all his/her similarly-worded postings, has not: 1) pretended to be something they aren’t (Atlanta Voter); 2) advocated the killing of people (who was it who wished for a bomb to drop on CPAC?); or 3) said something so crass as to cross a line (as someone did regarding Tony Snow).
If we ban everyone with whom we disagree, then eventually Allah’s gonna have to kick me out, ‘cos I support Sarah.
Snowed In on March 10, 2009 at 4:17 PM
Get back to me when the market rallies for an entire week. We had a similar single day uptick a few weeks ago in the midst of the Dow sinking down to 6500.
The problem is that just as the Dow shot up 300+ points today on the news of Citigroup, it can crash and burn the next day on the latest bad news from any number of places.
Pelosi is a nutcase, but she is right about one thing. The market needs confidence and right now both Wall Street and Main Street are severely lacking it.
Doughboy on March 10, 2009 at 4:25 PM
Well, yeah, confidence is lacking exactly because of people like Pelosi.
Snowed In on March 10, 2009 at 4:29 PM
Let’s not put the cart before the horse just yet. Stocks appear to be surging on “news” that Citi is turning a profit in the first quarter. However, the quarter isn’t over yet. Additionally, the “profit” is before taxes or any one-time expense items to be recorded, such as the $9.6 billion goodwill impairment charge Citi recorded at year-end. First quarter financial results will not be provided until early May. By the time this reporting occurs, then profit in the first two months of the year could turn into a loss.
Neo-con Artist on March 10, 2009 at 4:30 PM
You know Pelosi is on the confidence meme because someone has been talking plain old fact to the bunch o’ libs holding the steering wheel. Problem is, none of them mean it and it shows. OH NO, Bloom coming off Howard Fineman’s rose who is worrying that doubts are about to trickle down. With 53% of the country preparing for 30’s style depression, I would say doubts have already trickled down.
msmveritas on March 10, 2009 at 4:32 PM
Yeah, you’re probably right. Later man. Hail Obama.
JiangxiDad on March 10, 2009 at 4:32 PM
I told you these liberal morons couldnt run a lemonaid stand in the sara desert.. and make a profit
Now they spent 850 billion for condoms, 20 billion so acorn can keep on registering every mexican they can find..
100 billion to build mosques and for the poor islamic terrorist palestinians..
ohhh and this was to create jobs?
You Frigging MORONS votes this ASSHOLE obama in
in is an Obamination..
And now you will have a democommie running the joint and you dumb ass liberals are all rubbing yoru hands going
gee why am i being laid off?
Because obama is working for the Islamic terrorists..
hell he probably is on osamas payroll..
and you voted for him…
you deserve what you get
welcome to the new depression
Courtesy of obama the incompetent MORON
qwith peloize who only wants free rides from the airforce
since her Witch Broom malfunctioned.
jcila on March 10, 2009 at 4:33 PM
True, but it’s hard to disagree with a slogan. It’s just splashed up on the wall. Frankly, I see her stuff as graffiti.
JiangxiDad on March 10, 2009 at 4:35 PM
Oh, I don’t think so.
How many times have we seen “yes, we can” parodied or otherwise slammed? How about “hope and change”?
Or, even, “Mom, these dumb M&Ms melted in my hand!”
Snowed In on March 10, 2009 at 4:41 PM
Allah thoughts : Did you say Sarah? Slowly I turn, inch by inch, step by step…..
Fuquay Steve on March 10, 2009 at 4:41 PM
Neo-con Artist,
Today’s market surge, which was fueled by the Citbank news, strikes me as a classic suckers rally.
Let’s see, Republican Senator Richard Shelby makes the rounds on the Sunday talk show circuit floating the idea that the herd of troubled banks may need to be thinned. Today, lo and behold, Citibank leaks a memo that claims that they have posted a “profit” for two months this quarter. Nowhere is Citibank’s current or potential exposure to CDS mentioned. Hell, Citibank’s current exposure alone outstrips its $108 billion in reserves.
Mike Honcho on March 10, 2009 at 4:48 PM
It’s called BUYING VOTES.
Keep the natives happy, and they won’t complain. Keep telling them what you want them to hear (via the lamestream media), and they’ll believe you.
Just remember this: Before his head fell off, Louis XIV said “the kingdom. It is I”.
madmonkphotog on March 10, 2009 at 4:58 PM
Since the Evil Bush signed the first Tarp bill, and the financials lead the rally today, I guess Bush did the right thing.
PappaMac on March 10, 2009 at 5:03 PM
Always wondered what became of Jonny Quest’s dog…
Del Dolemonte on March 10, 2009 at 5:06 PM
Limeygeek –
From what I can tell a lot of the H1B jobs are paid below the prevailing US wages – so it’s a savings for Microsoft to hire them. Many of the jobs filled by H1B people are not even advertised here.
marge on March 10, 2009 at 5:08 PM
What’s the saying…’Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.’
I’m not going to be standing by any fans for the next few years.
PappaMac on March 10, 2009 at 5:32 PM
I think Republicans’ time would be better spent attacking Rush Limbaugh than pointing out the devastating effect these so-called stimulus packages have on the American economy.
chunderroad on March 10, 2009 at 5:34 PM
Which Hoover thinking does Obama disagree with?
A. Jacking up taxes to “get exploding deficits under control” v. reducing spending (aside from defense)
B. Taking capital out of the markets via top marginal rates and raising the cap gains tax
C. Hoot Smawley type protectionist policies that start trade wars
D. None of the above.
chunderroad on March 10, 2009 at 5:43 PM
I am in agreement with you. It certainly has the feel of a classic “pump-and-dump” scheme, with the exception that the “pump” is coming directly from the CEO. Makes me wonder how coerced the statement was. I can’t recall ever seeing a statement like this being released about a company’s financial performance prior to the filing of their financial statements. I have seen earnings calls that occur before filing, but those have been after the quarter (or year) end and just prior to the filing of the 10-Q or 10-K. Maybe it happens and I’ve missed it. I just don’t recall this type of information being released in this manner.
Regarding the CDS matter, is there any information on who owns a majority of these instruments (foreign vs. domestic)? I believe part of the issue is that this was a largely unregulated market, so no data truly exists which is a little disconcerting to say the least. Do you have any insightful, preferrably plain-english, links regarding CDS instruments?
“shake-and-bake”
Neo-con Artist on March 10, 2009 at 5:52 PM
Okay Allah, here is the proof that Obama’s assault on capitalism and free markets is not incompetence – it is intentional:
http://truthandcons.blogspot.com/
http://www.worldviewradio.com/episode.php?EpisodeID=10958
B. Hussein Obama, Cloward Piven President.
rishika on March 10, 2009 at 5:59 PM
malclave on March 10, 2009 at 5:59 PM
Nancy is probably making a list of all the pork she can cram into Stimulus II. It’s a wonder she doesn’t have a bid around her neck.
GarandFan on March 10, 2009 at 6:42 PM
Rush just brought up a good point…if 53% think we’re heading into a Captital-D Depression such as occured in the 30s, then how the heck is Obama’s approval rating so high?
Something is amiss…
ladyingray on March 11, 2009 at 12:40 PM
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