It’s comments like this that make me wonder why I bother posting comments here. It’s very rare that I get any actual substantive debate, yet it’s common for people to call me names. I dont really care if you want to call me names, but I find that it gets in the way of intelligent discourse.

orange on March 10, 2009 at 9:52 PM

First of all orange I was not addressing you in that post, I was responding to schik’s comment here:

I’m not sure I follow could you expand on your ideas a bit more?

:)

shick on March 10, 2009 at 5:49 PM

Nice deflection move orange, instead of debating my responses to your questions you throw out the “name calling” card. My comment you quoted was not directed at you but was in response to shick’s comment, yet you still feel as though I “called you names” which I never did. I did however comment that I was attempting to educate you and provide you with some perspective, common sense, and logic when it comes to the WOT (or a better example would be the war on fascist Islam) as you and many on the left have demonstrated many times over the last 8 years you are lacking the common sense and logic to see the situation (the war against fascist Islam) for what it is, a fight for our very freedoms and way of life and not what the left “feels” it’s about like “no war for oil” or “no imperialism” or “no war for Halliburton” and all of the many other memes the left constantly throws around. If that is “calling you names” well then I stand guilty as accused.

You claim you rarely get substantive debate and that name calling gets in the way of intelligent debate, I agree and that is why I do my best to refrain from personal attacks (calling names) when debating someone, this is why your comment confuses me as I see nowhere in my responses to your questions where I called you a name.

Instead what you did was a classic deflect move in order to avoid actually debating the answers I provided to your questions and that is very telling to me. It tells me you have no factual, logical or common sense rebuttal to my well thought out, factual, logic filled, and common sense responses to your questions and so the only move you had left was to deflect from debating the actual topic by accusing me of calling you names, something I challenge you to point out exactly where I called YOU a name in any of my comments.

So orange if it’s truly substantive debate and intelligent discourse you desire you may want to start by refuting my answers with facts, logic, and common sense instead of resorting to deflection.

I await your response.

Still waiting for the anti-war rallies condemning the Chicken hawk Obama for war crimes.

Baxter Greene on March 11, 2009 at 12:09 AM

Umm, how long did it take before there were marches in the street condemning Bush? 2-3 years? Yet you want people marching against Obama after less than 2 months.

You previously said “Nothing but compliance and support coming from liberals about this now that the occupant in the White House has a (D) beside his name.”

Then I showed you that you were wrong – that there are liberals who criticize Obama when he follows the Bush lead. So then you move the goalposts.

They have to be executed. If they stay in jail for ten years or more, some lib judge from San Francisco or elsewhere will find a way to release them and grant them asylum in the USA. Or they will be given radio host dj positions on NPR or some other libtard network to spew their poisons.

eaglewingz08 on March 10, 2009 at 5:00 PM

My thoughts exactly.

***NEVER EVER FORGET September 11, 2001***

Read Glenn Greenwald’s blog. He doesnt let Obama off the hook. He praises some things that Obama has done to reverse Bush admin policies, but criticizes many more that Obama has continued.

orange on March 10, 2009 at 3:15 PM

A liberal posting a few condemnations of Obama in no way shape or form compares to the constant barrage of bigoted hate from the left in the form of protests in the streets,anti- Bush movies being made,entertainers on a regular basis bashing Bush for his policies,and democrats on the hill accusing Bush of war crimes and of destroying our
Constitution.

Liberals have more than shown that their faux outrage and selective moralization is nothing but a political tool,not a stand for right and wrong.

Still waiting for the anti-war rallies condemning the Chicken hawk Obama for war crimes.

As you well know, a trumped up story against conservatives, is much more palatable to liberals then facts.
Why use facts when you have a theory…

right2bright on March 10, 2009 at 4:13 PM

Exactly.

Just keep repeating the same thing over and over and over, and with the help of the MSM, many people consider it the truth.

The “Bush Lied” liberal drivel is a good example.
Almost every major democrat said the same things about Saddam before Bush was President and even up until they voted for the Iraq war.
Every investigation has cleared Bush of this bogus charge and the democrats have had the power to impeach since 2006,but have done nothing.

Yet this pathetic accusation is still shouted as “fact” by the “smart ones”.

“Why use facts when you have a theory” sums liberals up pretty well.

Option 2) Place them in a steel framed structure, superheat the steel, watch as the steel melts and the structure falls under it’s own weight, pour bacon grease on the remaining ashes, film it and give a copy to Rosie…

Option 3) Dress them up as women (not a 1st for many of them), give them some bread, then let the Saudi’s order up 40 lashes…

I felt it important to educate orange on some facts, basic logic, and common sense, all things most on the left have none of especially when it comes to the WOT and fascist Islam in general.

Liberty or Death on March 10, 2009 at 6:46 PM

It’s comments like this that make me wonder why I bother posting comments here. It’s very rare that I get any actual substantive debate, yet it’s common for people to call me names. I dont really care if you want to call me names, but I find that it gets in the way of intelligent discourse.

Hang ‘em high, boys, and bury ‘em wrapped in bacon. The five detainees at Guantánamo Bay charged with planning the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks have filed a document with the military commission at the United States naval base there……

I’m not sure I follow could you expand on your ideas a bit more?

:)

shick on March 10, 2009 at 5:49 PM

LOL…I know it was very long winded but orange asked some questions and made certain comments about an earlier comment I made so I felt it important to educate orange on some facts, basic logic, and common sense, all things most on the left have none of especially when it comes to the WOT and fascist Islam in general.

Liberty or Death on March 10, 2009 at 5:38 PM

I’m not sure I follow could you expand on your ideas a bit more?

:)

Find out every thing that the Quran describes as loathsome and apply it to these men and then broadcast it to the world.

Let the world see that Allah does not reward their actions.

You do know that many Gitmo detainees were not found on a battlefield, correct?

No I don’t know and don’t give a rats azz if they were or were not found on the battlefield. If someone in our military thought capturing them was the right thing to do and they determined the person posed a current or future threat then who am I to second guess them, I wasn’t there and my life wasn’t on the line. I also have the utmost faith in our military men and women to what they believe to be right in order to win the war and protect themselves; it is you that is questioning their motives and judgment here, not me.

My point is simple: how do we know we got the right guys? I’m not talking about the 5 that just confessed – I’m speaking of the hundreds of others.

See above comment.

Dont you realize how preposterous that is? To truly think that anyone on the left is pro-terrorist?

No I do not believe my comment as preposterous in the least, while I may have painted all on the left with a broad brush there have been numerous examples post 9-11 of the pacifist left bending over backwards to apologize to jihadists for the actions our nation has taken in its defense against their murdering fascist ideology that came to rear its ugly head on 9-11!

I could spend the next three days listing all of the vile and ridiculous rhetoric the left has spewed over the last 8 years that proves beyond a doubt many on the left are terrorist apologist that blame “Imperialist America” for 9-11 instead of placing the blame where it belongs, squarely on the shoulders of fascist Islam, however if you’re an honest person orange then there is no need for me to compile such a list as you already know the rhetoric I speak of, and if you don’t well then as Tokyo Rosie would say, Google it!

Being against torture or against indefinite detention without trial is not to support terrorists or terrorism. It’s to abhor the idea that we are detaining or punishing innocents.

I never said it was, however if you think about what you are asking our government to do it is directly/indirectly playing into the hands of the terrorists. Our military already conducts itself in a manner that is above and beyond what is required of them in regard to the treatment and prosecution of illegal enemy combatants, they (the terrorists) are afforded much more in the way of rights than any of our soldiers would ever get from them.

Also, terrorists don’t respect the rule of law, especially not our laws, they only respect their religious edicts (laws) found in the Quran and if you’ve done even a little research into the edicts of the Quran you should have come to the realization of what Islam is all about by now, if not then you’re not comprehending what you are reading.

Islam is a fascist religious/political ideology of intolerance, intolerance of other religions, other lifestyles (homosexuality just to name one lifestyle) intolerance of the many freedoms we take for granted and freedoms in general, and they are all about the subjugation of everyone under their strict and draconian Sharia ideology, basically the complete antithesis of what our nation was founded upon.

Right now, due to the Padilla and al-Marri cases, there is nothing in the law which prevents the feds from plucking YOU out from your bed in the middle of the night, claiming that you’re an enemy combatant, and putting you in a hole with no access to lawyers. They can keep you there as long as they like and treat you pretty much how they please.

Are you happy with the fact that the Obama administration has this power? I’m not.

orange on March 10, 2009 at 3:07 PM

Yep, I’m happy with the fact, if it saves even one American life and prevents another 9-11 or worse then I’m all for it. Look up Maslow’s hierarchy of needs orange, while it’s good to be vigilant in protecting our constitutional rights our constitution is not a suicide pact, survival needs come first! If we have to temporarily curb some of our liberties (although I haven’t seen any major change in my liberties since 9-11) in order for our republic to survive then so be it, after all if our republic is lost then what good is our constitution? Well?

I’ve been hearing this same rhetoric from the left since 9-11 and the truth is I’m not concerned in the least. First I’m a citizen of the United States, I’m not a terrorist, enemy of the state, nor an illegal enemy combatant having taken up arms against the US on a foreign battlefield while not wearing a uniform or fighting under the flag of a recognized nation.

Another reason I’m not concerned, you may recall Johnny Walker Linde was captured in Afghanistan while taking up arms against the US, even though he too was not wearing a uniform or fighting under a recognized flag and thus would have clearly fallen under the status of an “illegal enemy combatant” yet he was never a victim of the above rendition as you described above, but in fact he was given his US habeas corpus rights (because he’s an American citizen) and was therefore afforded a trial by his peers in a US criminal court, this fact alone makes your argument moot.

In addition I have not experienced nor have I ever even heard rumor of the government boogey-men in black snatching any American citizen and holding them indefinitely without the US right of Habeas Corpus, so again I fail to see what your concern is, in fact I beleive this lefty concern is nothing but a red-herring to distract from the fact the left are terrorist apologist.

Bottom line is illegal enemy combatants that are not US citizens (as John Walker was) are not and should never be afforded US Habeas Corpus rights, period. Now if the jihadists want to start wearing uniforms and fight under the flag of a recognized nation well then they should by all means be afforded their rights under the Geneva Convention and I’m sure our government will comply.

But as long as they don’t then they are illegal enemy combatants and will be treated as such. To provide them with US Habeas Corpus rights essentially ties our military’s hands behind its back making it less nimble, limiting its ability to obtain critical information, places our soldiers in the field at greater risk and overall is a detriment to prosecuting this war in order to win and save American lives and possibly saving our republic. Hell, the Geneva Convention doesn’t even require normal POW’s to be read their rights (e.g., Miranda rights) as is required under US Habeas Corpus, and doing so while at war and on a battlefield is absurd, ridiculous, and directly/indirectly does play into the hands of terrorists!

Any other questions?

Liberals can continue to twist themselves into a pretzel trying to blame terrorism on America and calling Gitmo a gulag.But the facts just don’t support this ignorant rhetoric.

Baxter Greene on March 10, 2009 at 1:01 PM

As you well know, a trumped up story against conservatives, is much more palatable to liberals then facts.
Why use facts when you have a theory…

Gleen or Rick Ellensburg? I get confused.

Bush was called a fascist destroying America’s reputation when these policies were outlined during his administration.

Nothing but compliance and support coming from liberals about this now that the occupant in the White House has a (D) beside his name.

Baxter Greene on March 10, 2009 at 1:16 PM

Absolutely false. I opposed the unConstitutional means that the Bush admin used, and I continue to oppose them now that the Obama admin is using them.

Read Glenn Greenwald’s blog. He doesnt let Obama off the hook. He praises some things that Obama has done to reverse Bush admin policies, but criticizes many more that Obama has continued.

You are an idiot! The death penalty and ‘torture’ are not the same thing. How’d you get so stupid????

MooreMom on March 10, 2009 at 3:02 PM

You should have read my post more carefully. I was using the rationale of the poster I was quoting. As you find that rationale to be “stupid”, you apparently agree with me.

To paraphrase a scene from the movie An American Carol, “if you’re on the battfield and they’r shooting at you, they’re guilty!”

You do know that many Gitmo detainees were not found on a battlefield, correct?

Despite the fact the left likes to muddy the waters on this issue for anyone with half a functioning synapse or someone not blinded by their idology (as the left is) it’s really not that difficult an issue orange.

In addition since they (the prisoners in Gitmo) were not wearing a uniform and/or fighting under the flag of a recognized nation when captured they are therefore “illegal enemy combatants” which does not afford them to protections under the Geneva Convention let alone rights under US habeas corpus! and so trial by military tribunal is more than appropriate here and I will respect whatever decision the tribunal comes up with, however to somehow afford these jihadists with rights under US habeas corpus is absurd!

My point is simple: how do we know we got the right guys? I’m not talking about the 5 that just confessed – I’m speaking of the hundreds of others.

Again, it’s very simple and the only ones making this an issue and muddying the waters are the terrorist apologist left in their attempts to get everyone to sing Koom-baya and share a coke with terrosirst scum!

Liberty or Death on March 10, 2009 at 1:21 PM

Dont you realize how preposterous that is? To truly think that anyone on the left is pro-terrorist?

Being against torture or against indefinite detention without trial is not to support terrorists or terrorism. It’s to abhor the idea that we are detaining or punishing innocents.

Right now, due to the Padilla and al-Marri cases, there is nothing in the law which prevents the feds from plucking YOU out from your bed in the middle of the night, claiming that you’re an enemy combatant, and putting you in a hole with no access to lawyers. They can keep you there as long as they like and treat you pretty much how they please.

Are you happy with the fact that the Obama administration has this power? I’m not.