WSJ: Taxing the other 95%
posted at 10:22 am on March 9, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
A week ago, I warned about the coming cap-and-trade tax that would hit the 95% of Americans that Barack Obama promised would never see a tax increase. The Wall Street Journal picks up that story today, stating the obvious that Obama’s populist supporters never quite understood. Once you tax a producer, the producer passes those costs along to the consumer:
Cap and trade is the tax that dare not speak its name, and Democrats are hoping in particular that no one notices who would pay for their climate ambitions. With President Obama depending on vast new carbon revenues in his budget and Congress promising a bill by May, perhaps Americans would like to know the deeply unequal ways that climate costs would be distributed across regions and income groups.
Politicians love cap and trade because they can claim to be taxing “polluters,” not workers. Hardly. Once the government creates a scarce new commodity — in this case the right to emit carbon — and then mandates that businesses buy it, the costs would inevitably be passed on to all consumers in the form of higher prices. Stating the obvious, Peter Orszag — now Mr. Obama’s budget director — told Congress last year that “Those price increases are essential to the success of a cap-and-trade program.”
Hit hardest would be the “95% of working families” Mr. Obama keeps mentioning, usually omitting that his no-new-taxes pledge comes with the caveat “unless you use energy.” Putting a price on carbon is regressive by definition because poor and middle-income households spend more of their paychecks on things like gas to drive to work, groceries or home heating.
The Congressional Budget Office — Mr. Orszag’s former roost — estimates that the price hikes from a 15% cut in emissions would cost the average household in the bottom-income quintile about 3.3% of its after-tax income every year. That’s about $680, not including the costs of reduced employment and output. The three middle quintiles would see their paychecks cut between $880 and $1,500, or 2.9% to 2.7% of income. The rich would pay 1.7%. Cap and trade is the ideal policy for every Beltway analyst who thinks the tax code is too progressive (all five of them).
You would think that the gas-price bubble would have taught people this lesson already, but decades of “sin taxes” didn’t make a dent, either. When government raises taxes on any producer or product, the price increases. If poor and working-class people buy the products, it will eat up more of their disposable income on a percentage basis than those who make more money. When gas prices shot out of sight last year — not through taxation but through bad policy — the hardest hit were those on fixed or low incomes, as it wiped out what was left of disposable income.
When Obama imposes a cap-and-trade system on energy producers, it will have the same effect. It creates an artificial scarcity and escalating costs to buy up the scarce commodity (carbon emission grants). Those costs create either higher prices or lost jobs, as the producers have to find ways to make up the extra money they spend. In this case, it will probably be both.
The end result will be less energy produced at higher costs. The energy shortage will curtail economic growth at the exact time we need cheap energy to help America’s economy back on its feet. The higher costs will make people poorer, especially in the income strata that can least afford it, and they’ll be able to afford it less anyway, thanks to the economically depressive effects of burdening the economy. And since energy costs impact just about every product and service in this country, the effects multiply through the entire economy.
This is a policy of failure and retreat. It’s a disaster for the American economy.
Blowback
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But Ed, they are taxing evil corporations, not people. It is the evil corporations that are wickedly passing on the tax to the poor consumer.
My tongue is so firmly in my cheek, it looks like I have the mumps.
Vashta.Nerada on March 9, 2009 at 10:28 AM
Eh, the solution is simple: Nationalize the energy companies. Come on now, you know that is the end game here, taking control as Chavez did in his now blighted nation.
Wouldn’t everyone feel more comfortable have a flinty Chicago gangster controlling your thermostat? We can’t just go on heating our houses to 72 degrees every winter.
Bishop on March 9, 2009 at 10:29 AM
FIFY
Proof? Late 1970′s under Jimmuh Carter.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on March 9, 2009 at 10:29 AM
Didn’t exactly require an MBA to figure out who’s gonna pay for this fiasco. What took them so long?
Tim Zank on March 9, 2009 at 10:29 AM
Anyone who believed obama was not going to rasie taxes on everyone is a moron.
This is hardly news to people who can think for themselves.
sonofdy on March 9, 2009 at 10:29 AM
Yet the lemmings who check me out at the supermarket are still high-fiving one another over the checks that B Hussein 0 will be mailing them at the expense of the top five percent.
OmahaConservative on March 9, 2009 at 10:32 AM
In some way it is good I guess that Obama is already overreaching. If the Dems could fund their causes by only taxing 49% of us we may well be doomed.
Of course, this presumes that people will notice this hidden tax increase. The media we can be sure will blame those eviiiiiil energy companies.
If the Republicans ever wanted to get serious on the issue of taxes they would get rid of withholding. By the next April we would see a tax revolt.
18-1 on March 9, 2009 at 10:33 AM
True, but for the rest of us who understood all along, it’s time for us to contact our congressmen and senators once again.
Oink on March 9, 2009 at 10:33 AM
For the win.
Abby Adams on March 9, 2009 at 10:34 AM
Waiting for getalife to defend this insanity in 5…4…3…2…1….
Remember, the good investment is going to be in “green” (aka brown – shovel ready) technology. Better start collecting cow chips to heat your home.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on March 9, 2009 at 10:34 AM
Michael Berliner writes in “The Scourge of Earth Day”: “The fundamental goal of environmentalism is not clean air and clean water; rather, it is the demolition of technological / industrial civilization. Environmentalism’s goal is not the advancement of human health, human happiness, and human life; rather, it is a subhuman world where ‘nature’ is worshipped like the totem of some primitive religion. In a nation founded on the pioneer spirit, environmentalists have made “development” an evil word….
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/guideDesc.asp?catId=60&type=group
rishika on March 9, 2009 at 10:34 AM
After the election, I went to a few left leaning forums and told them I hoped they enjoyed the coming tax increases. They all told me, no, Obama was going to cut taxes (except for the rich).
Shouldn’t these people be volunteering to pay higher taxes though anyway? It is their “patriotic” duty isn’t it? And they didn’t need the Bush tax cuts as they kept tell us.
18-1 on March 9, 2009 at 10:35 AM
Oh the poor wont have to pay for it the companies will subsidize them with their gift progams they have.
This is a story you wont see on the news. When the rates go up you know the people are going to blame the electric companies. They will never know about the cap and trade the government forced companies into. The people will say that the companies are only out to make money. I don’t think enough of his followers pay attention to stuff like this.
Brat4life on March 9, 2009 at 10:35 AM
California thought the rolling blackouts were bad. Just wait. Now you will pay higher prices and not even be able to use your energy. Won’t that be great!
You love your democrats now – just wait they will give you even more to love!
izoneguy on March 9, 2009 at 10:36 AM
Tru dat, playa.
Cue Mr. President promising more “tax credits” for the poor in 5…4…3…2…1…
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on March 9, 2009 at 10:37 AM
I hope he is successful with this insanity because it will guarantee he will be a one term president.
sheriff246 on March 9, 2009 at 10:37 AM
Meanwhile he is stopping the only nuke plant in the process of being built.
The average person won’t “get it”. That’s why this will work. The people never understand that costs are passed onto them…and of course what they really miss it the most (and worst) important aspect to this.
It forces more purchases of off-shore products, and makes our manufacturing even less competitive.
Cap and Trade hits the manufacturing much harder, since they use many times the energy then a service company.
This will be the final nail in the coffin of our manufacturing industry.
right2bright on March 9, 2009 at 10:38 AM
Because most of his followers are moronic sheep!! Yes I said it!! Morons –
morons that don’t produce or pay for anything anyway. They think Cap & Trade is a program at the mall to trade in your old baseball cap for a new one!
izoneguy on March 9, 2009 at 10:39 AM
He hasn’t defended anything yet. All he does is respond with the standard “conservatives are evil /Obama is the Messiah/Rush is a drug addict/Rish is an idiot” post. I have yet to see it defend anything with what resembles a coherent though.
NoFanofLibs on March 9, 2009 at 10:39 AM
It seems to me that the left has moved to neo-feudalism.
They’d like we the serfs to be tied to the land – no plane flights, no cars, etc. While they, the new nobility, will still be jet setting to Tahiti, Brazil, etc to attend “environmental conferences”.
18-1 on March 9, 2009 at 10:40 AM
This is no big deal, people, I stand ready to fill in the blanks of our new alternate energy policy.
I am in the process of creating a method to produce things from “wind” which normally use petroleum derivatives, items such as insecticide, toothbrushes and roofing shingles.
I’m very close to a solution so just hang in there; you are going to be amazed when I reveal how tires can be made in your own backyard with nothing but a windmill. Until then, you will have to do without antiseptic, shoes and antifreeze.
Bishop on March 9, 2009 at 10:41 AM
So we’re going to tax carbon emmissions because we want to discourage them. And we’re going to subsidize “green” energy because we want more of it. We’re also going to tax those who are financially successful, because we want less of them and we’re going to subsidize the poor, because we want more of them. Stop the world please, I want to get off, I think this is my stop.
trubble on March 9, 2009 at 10:44 AM
The only companies left in CA will be the ones that service the residents.
Already you are having record numbers of companies leaving…service companies, like hamburger, restaurants, attorneys, bookkeepers, dept. stores, all the businesses that serve a local population will remain, but any “smart” national company will move…as they already have started.
And they are more and more servicing the growth in CA, primarily from influx from south of the border.
You are in big trouble in CA, much more then anyone will admit.
Nearly 40% of your manufacturing has left in the past 15 years…what is keeping you afloat is the agriculture.
right2bright on March 9, 2009 at 10:44 AM
It is sooooo obvious you don’t understand “cap and trade” – Cap means we are all on the corner near Joe’s Bar with our caps out begging for nickels…….trade means we have traded our cars, homes, bank accounts, and furniture for food money. Come on get with it! Damn but I love HopenChange!
Cinday Blackburn on March 9, 2009 at 10:44 AM
Bush’s fault.
Joe Caps on March 9, 2009 at 10:45 AM
The communists have spent the last 30 years dreaming about siezing power.
Cap and Trade will be the least of it.
They’ve got dozens of other methods to steal money from you and give it to people who don’t work and therefore support them.
That’s what the CRA was about. That’s what nationalized health care is about as well. That’s what the Depression Stimulus is about.
Thay don’t have any problem thinking of creative ways to sieze the money.
notagool on March 9, 2009 at 10:46 AM
Barry’s got a planet to save! The fact the little guy is going to be hurt by his grand plans … well, in everyone’s life a little rain must fall. Right, Barry?
Barry is a lot like Carter with one exception. Even Jimmy Carter did not party on when the economy was crapping all over itself. Barack and the Hulk are turning the White House upside down with Stevie Wonder and their “friends”.
Gotta impress, right, Barry?
jdflorida on March 9, 2009 at 10:46 AM
What’s most discouraging is that all he has to do is get on TV and say that he’s really saving 95% of the “workers” money. It’s like he’s reading despair.com’s “The Art of Demotivation,” play by play. Talk about your core values and all the benefits you provide your “workers” while doing just the opposite.
Who’s the more foolish…him or us?
lm10001 on March 9, 2009 at 10:47 AM
subsidizing the poor does not make them wealthier it makes them subsidized and dependant.
Joe Caps on March 9, 2009 at 10:47 AM
Quite brilliant.
Oink on March 9, 2009 at 10:48 AM
This is no different than the endless taxes on tobacco products. Every tobacco lawsuit ends up with some lawyer making an idiot statement such as “we’re gonna send a message to big tobacco”. Well guess who got the message along with the price increase? A pack of cigarettes costs about five times today what it cost ten years ago. I’m sure “big tobacco” got the message. Guess who makes the lions share of the profit on a pack of cigarettes? It costs about a dollar to manufacture and market a pack of smokes but they sell for over five dollars. Kaa ching!
So many people demonize smokers but guess what? Now the Nannies of “big government” are coming after everyone else. What did someone quote in another thread here?
Well it looks like we’re all starting to stretch those ropes now.
greasywrench on March 9, 2009 at 10:49 AM
Obviously Ed is a hate filled racist who wants Dear Leader to fail. Opposing The One’s plans is treason because He is the
dictatorpresident. And merely pointing out uncomfortable facts is opposition. Off to the newly empty Gitmo for you!/sarc.
rbj on March 9, 2009 at 10:50 AM
Greenhouse taxes,tobacco taxes,and other increases either directly affect “all” consumers are indirectly by increasing the cost of goods and services.
Obama was called out on the “nuance” many times during his campaign but all the press and their Obama supporters would do is keep repeating “He is only taxing the top 2-5%,95% are getting a tax cut.”
It is really frustrating to see someone play these shell games with the American public and watch the MSM play a purposeful and direct role in advancing these corrupt policies through deceitful reporting of the issues.
WSJ called Obama on this back in October:
Obama’s 95% Illusion
It depends on what the meaning of ‘tax cut’ is.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122385651698727257.html
And of course we have the super smart liberals wanting to increase energy cost’s to push there unproven global warming
agenda:
Obama Admits Cap & Trade Will Cause Electricity Rates to Skyrocket (Video)
Senator Barack Obama
Speaking on his energy policies
San Francisco Chronicle
January 17, 2008
How does Obama’s administration feel about increasing costs
on “everybody” during the “worst economic times since the
great depression.”
Everything Obama says and proposes comes with a back door or some hidden angle that advances his far left agenda at the costs of our freedoms and rights.
This is by far,the most dishonest and radical person ever elevated to top leadership in this country.
The sheep must be proud.
Baxter Greene on March 9, 2009 at 10:52 AM
Ed, why are you so racist?
carbon_footprint on March 9, 2009 at 10:52 AM
I do believe that I actually heard someone fretting once about the number of smokers decreasing because it would serious hurt state tax revenues. Crazy!
Snowed In on March 9, 2009 at 10:53 AM
/sarc
for the noobs
carbon_footprint on March 9, 2009 at 10:53 AM
Ed
Did you see this article about Obama’s wikipedia page being scrubbed?
http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=91114
Dr Evil on March 9, 2009 at 10:53 AM
Seriously. As in, I should seriously review my postings before I actually post them.
Snowed In on March 9, 2009 at 10:53 AM
I saw that at Newsbusters. I hope Ed/Allah link to this.
carbon_footprint on March 9, 2009 at 10:54 AM
I work in entertainment in Los Angeles. Where being conservative is like being gay in the 1950′s… You stay in the closet… And this is the story that starts to make the liberals I work with start to wonder WTF Obama is thinking. Once they hear the details instead of the fluffy, feel-goodness, green angle that gets put out there. He could lost a chunk of his base on this one if he’s not careful.
oddjob1138 on March 9, 2009 at 10:54 AM
Oh boy. There gonna step in it with this one. Wait till gas prices start going back up to $4-5. You’re gonna hear Drill Here, Drill Now. It could be the defining issue for 2010.
marklmail on March 9, 2009 at 10:54 AM
The unspoken point in the quote is that the price increse will cause the poor to be unable to heat and light their homes. So, in order for Obama to prevent the power comapnies from turning off the lights/heat/AC for those that can’t afford his tax increase, he will mandate that the companies provide subsidised/free power to the poor.
Thus, those that are able to pay, will pay even more, further eroding the middle class.
I’m really getting frightened now.
todler on March 9, 2009 at 10:55 AM
It appears he is throwing caution into the wind. It makes one think that in his ideal, there may not be elections for a while. Sorry if that sounds paranoid, but I have felt sinister motives from this man for over two years.
carbon_footprint on March 9, 2009 at 10:57 AM
And more numerous
thomasaur on March 9, 2009 at 10:57 AM
Next your going to tell me you have a decades long history of social programs to prove it. Pfff, yeah right! Actually, I was just comparing the logic in taxing/subsidizing things. If you want to get even sillier, consider that by making it prohibitively expensive to manufacture or operate businesses in developed countries with more environmental regulations, you force the “polluters” to move to less developed countries that have little or no environmental regulations allowing the eeevil corporations to pollute more than they otherwise would. In short, this plan will force jobs out of the US and increase pollution. Great plan, Barry!
trubble on March 9, 2009 at 10:57 AM
You should try to give them little pushes.
“Another tax cheat, come on aren’t there any good guys left?”
“Ugh, my 401k is still tanking, when will this recession end?”
18-1 on March 9, 2009 at 10:58 AM
Ok, for all of you that voted for this POS radical leftist, I have just a few words for you…
Those of you that thought 95% were gonna get this wonderful eutopia, while the evil rich 5% got taxed to hell, I have a few words for you…
**** Bend over and grab your ankles ****
It’s The Messiah’s turn to “pork” you…
Mark Garnett on March 9, 2009 at 10:59 AM
Glad to hear there are still some on our side over there. Let us know how the proselytizing goes…once the energy costs start to spike, you might have some success.
Snowed In on March 9, 2009 at 10:59 AM
I imagine you are right and this is already being built into the equation. I often wonder if he feels his mission will not be complete until he sees every middle and upper class person at the bottom of the exit ramp with a tin cup. This man is angry and we will suffer until he is ousted.
sherry on March 9, 2009 at 11:00 AM
If you will recall, in 2006 the Democrats promised to lower the price of gas. In fact the price went from about $2.50 to $4. But by crashing the economy they finally did deliver on this promise since gas is now like $2 again.
18-1 on March 9, 2009 at 11:00 AM
If this BS scheme passes then some Congress person should add an ammendment that every gas and electric bill should have a giant CAP & TRADE CARBON TAX line so that the sheeple will see where their increase is coming from. Also a huge sign on EVERY gas pump.
mrsmwp on March 9, 2009 at 11:01 AM
Oh, trust me, I do. I just turned 39 and it seems the older I get the less I care about what my coworkers think about me. Funny how life is… The $40 billion tax increase we just got here in CA is further fuel in the fire. That Whoopi outburst won’t be an isolated incedent soon. The other one I like to throw out there is capping the pay of the stars so all the techs, and costumers and make up, etc people get higher pay… Just stiring the pot… Muhahahaha…
oddjob1138 on March 9, 2009 at 11:02 AM
I live in an apartment that is heated with electricity. My bills in the winter go up close to $200.00. If electricity prices end up doubling, there is no way I can afford it.
Neither could the senior citizens living on fixed incomes. They are the ones I worry about.
becki51758 on March 9, 2009 at 11:04 AM
I hope he fails.
bluelightbrigade on March 9, 2009 at 11:04 AM
Another appaling example of Obama’s dishonesty and the help he gets from the MSM in covering it up:
THE MUDVILLE GAZETTE: An Iraq drawdown scam?
Diversions (III)
Greyhawk
http://rpc.blogrolling.com/redirect.php?r=503d6378b0e7bbf4f5488ec58d1fd50d&url=http%3A%2F%2Finstapundit.com%2F
Read the first entry in this series for details of the preparations made by the Stryker Brigade for an Iraq deployment – 10-month Arabic language schools being just part of the training rendered useless by a reassignment to a country where the locals don’t speak it.
Of course, “intensive, 10-month Arabic language training” and “exercises… where they had to help their commanders negotiate with native-speaker role players” were now useless – but if they were no longer needed in Iraq, so be it.
But they were needed in Iraq – just not as badly as the Obama administration needed to make it appear that troops initially slotted for Iraq were going to Afghanistan instead – seemingly making good on a key campaign promise. So with much fanfare the Iraq drawdown (consisting entirely of the Stryker Brigade)/Afghanistan surge (Strykers plus a Marine unit) was announced, and subsequent polls indicated Americans were wildly enthusiastic about the idea.
And a few days later no one would notice the bombshell reported by ABC: “Gen. Odierno will receive a Stryker Brigade to replace the incoming replacement brigade diverted to Afghanistan just a week ago” – perhaps because within 24 hours of reporting that news they changed it to this:
ABC News has also learned that Gen. Odierno will continue to maintain a Stryker Brigade presence in Iraq through the upcoming elections as he had requested. There are currently two Stryker Brigades in Iraq. When their tours end later this year, only one of those departing brigades will be replaced by an incoming Stryker Brigade.
Not only was there no explanation of the “correction”, there wasn’t even an acknowledgment of the change on the site.
But wait… there’s more…
*****
I don’t like conspiracy theories – I suspected that ABC’s initial report was due to some sort of simple misunderstanding and that the corrected version was in fact correct. But to confirm that I sent a simple email to them:
Greetings
Just linked this in a post, but subsequently discovered the line “ABC News has also learned that Gen. Odierno will receive a Stryker Brigade to replace the incoming replacement brigade diverted to Afghanistan just a week ago” has since vanished without explanation.
What happened?
Even though it was the weekend they were kind enough to reply:
That was updated.
I checked to see if they were referring to a subsequent update – they weren’t. So I replied:
Clearly. But that’s rather a dramatic change to make without explanation, don’t you think? The original version indicates the entire narrative of diverting troops from Iraq to Afghanistan is a fraud perpetrated on the American public. The later version is hardly newsworthy.
Aren’t corrections of that magnitude worthy of an appended explanation?
It’s been a week since that was sent and I’ve received no reply. But that’s probably because other developments have rendered the point somewhat moot.
*****
Specifically, last Monday the DoD announced:
The Department of Defense announced today that 4th Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division, based in Ft. Lewis, Wash., will deploy in the fall of 2009 to support Operation Iraqi Freedom.
The brigade consists of approximately 4,000 personnel and will deploy as a replacement unit for a formation currently operating in Iraq. Its deployment will provide commanders in Iraq the flexibility to maintain the appropriate level of effort based on their assessment of the security situation on the ground.
The next day’s Tacoma News Tribune would report:
A Fort Lewis Stryker combat brigade will deploy to Iraq this fall, several months ahead of the original schedule, Army officials said Monday.
When the 4th Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division departs, all three Stryker brigades based at the Army post will be simultaneously deployed to combat for the first time. Each brigade has about 4,000 soldiers.
And ABC would change their story once again – this time with an explanation:
Editor’s Note: Over the weekend, additional information led us to rework this article. We have restored the original wording as additional reporting reconfirms the information posted Friday night.
*****
Let’s recap the salient points here:
One year ago that would have been a hell of a story, don’t you think?
Posted by Greyhawk at 11:52 AM | Permalink |
This is the most corrupt,deceitful administration I have ever seen and the MSM is doing everything they can to provide spin and cover for these activities.
You can bet I don’t want Obama to succeed.
Baxter Greene on March 9, 2009 at 11:04 AM
And with the attacks on domestic oil production, no ANWR, no offshore expansion, and a rising need for imports, oil will go shooting up like a rocket with that idiot in the White House.
Even after decades and billions of massive tax breaks and gimmes, wind and solar only produce .17% (76,000 out of over 44 million-barrel daily energy barrel equivalents) of our total energy needs. And most of that .17% is not even economic – in other words, it commonly costs more energy to make these wind turbines and solar cells than the energy that we ever get out of them.
And now, the Cap and Trade scam to fleece even more money from every American.
TexasJew on March 9, 2009 at 11:04 AM
Two years ago I canceled my WSJ subscription after nearly 30 years due to it’s position on illegal immigration. But my wife missed a newspaper, and I reluctantly re-subscribed.
This morning I canceled again. Not because of this excellent editorial, but because of a hard news story in the very same edition on page R10.
Before the Deluge. A warmer world is coming. The Dutch want to make sure they are ready for it. By Leila Abboud
As I told them in an email this morning,
“We have children in the house, and must be vigilant about their mental development. When the WSJ prints opinion as fact, editorial as news, it’s time to cancel, which we did this morning.”
JiangxiDad on March 9, 2009 at 11:05 AM
Cap-n-Trade…
The 21st century Bait-n-Switch
Elfvis on March 9, 2009 at 11:06 AM
Dear God, of all the disasters that have already been passed and proposed, this one has to be stopped. It is the final nail in the coffin.
Yakko77 on March 9, 2009 at 11:07 AM
unless there are price controls 8-)
krl on March 9, 2009 at 11:08 AM
Cruel the country in the name of chasing the non-existent AGW bogeyman. Meanwhile, Ogabe parties on Wagyu beef. “Let them eat cake” he said.
mr.blacksheep on March 9, 2009 at 11:09 AM
I am sure your points a salient…if one took the time to read so much…next time, be more concise, your points will be read and not skimmed over.
So the crux is…Obama said he is reducing troops but he is not?
right2bright on March 9, 2009 at 11:09 AM
But how does this affect a profits and expenses statement?
benrand on March 9, 2009 at 11:09 AM
Has she been seen screaming out of her window yet?
But, but, but, I thought most of the so-called actors have bit into the green gimmick, hook, line and sinker?
tru2tx on March 9, 2009 at 11:10 AM
I wouldn’t worry too much about the poor. I read somewhere (wish I had the link) that they would receive subsidies for this.
As usual, it is the middle class who will pay. I believe the idea is to destroy the middle class, and what is happening to my family is any indication, that will doubtless be successful.
Alana on March 9, 2009 at 11:10 AM
I think the trolls are taking a day off after a brutal week of one administration screw up after another. Unfortunately for them, I doubt this week is going to be any different. Axelrod may have to re-think his astroturfing strategy. Perhaps this is where Obama’s Civilian Army can see it’s first deployment.
neuquenguy on March 9, 2009 at 11:10 AM
Interesting note. On CNN(I think) they had a news report about cancer rates near a nuclear power plant. Be prepared there will be much more of this.
Look everyone, all we have to do to avoid this tax is stop using energy to light, heat or cool our homes. Raw foods are much better for you than cooked. And meat, well we don’t need no stinkin’ meat since wood burning fires are so bad for the environment. They almost have us right where they want us.
Jvette on March 9, 2009 at 11:13 AM
I think it gets worse than that: if the cap & trade tax is listed on your utility bills as the other taxes are currently listed, that gives the gov’t the opportunity to give tax credits to those people making $–,— or less. Thus, the bulk of the cap & trade taxes are paid for by the 50% of the people that actually pay taxes.
All for the sake of the global warming boogeyman.
mdenis39 on March 9, 2009 at 11:14 AM
FIFY. Cause, y’know, Obama wants to get his hands on both profits and earnings.
Snowed In on March 9, 2009 at 11:14 AM
I saw a web comic today that had a character playing a prank on a bear coming out of hibernation by putting a “Support President McCain” sign in front of his cave. The bear sees the sign, freaks, and runs back inside.
Sure, lame, delusional partisanship on the surface, but what if you intemperate it as a “market bear”?
Count to 10 on March 9, 2009 at 11:15 AM
Baxter Greene on March 9, 2009 at 11:04 AM
Maybe just a link next time? Jeezus.
Bishop on March 9, 2009 at 11:15 AM
The only way to prevent these wonderful cap and trade taxes from being passed on to the consumers is through immediate passage of an anti dog-eat-dog law.
Paging Wesley Mouch…
Vashta.Nerada on March 9, 2009 at 11:15 AM
That is indeed their intent. They will be the ruling elite class supported by the working poor. The middle class, at least of the size and scope found in mid-twentieth century, was unique to America. It was the result of the brilliance of the system designed by the Framers of the Constitution.
Jvette on March 9, 2009 at 11:17 AM
How can you folks be interested in Captain Trade when the real issue of the world is stem cell research?
Don’t you understand? You’re supposed to be distracted from the energy issue and focused on the stem cell stuff.
Geez guys….get with the program.
BobMbx on March 9, 2009 at 11:23 AM
Easy way to solve this problem for Obama:
The purchase price of everything you purchase is based on your income.
The more income you make, the more the item or service costs you.
For example, Electricity for the under $250,000 income a year is “X”-dollars per kilowatt hour. For those making over $250,000 a year the cost of electricity is “X + 200% of X”-dollars per killowatt hour.
albill on March 9, 2009 at 11:24 AM
(emphasis mine)
In other words, it’s news to most of those who didn’t vote in November, to virtually all those who voted for Obama, and (to be fair) to a handful of those who voted for McCain.
BuckeyeSam on March 9, 2009 at 11:25 AM
Understand, senior citizens are a burden. Hence, the nationalized health care plan. The fewer of them the better.
Alana on March 9, 2009 at 11:26 AM
Keep an eye out for the legalization of euthanasia.
neuquenguy on March 9, 2009 at 11:30 AM
Cap and trade will lead to price controls, and probably the government takeover of the energy companies. Obama will use the “greedy businesses squeezing the consumer argument” to gin up support for putting price controls on all products, starting with gas.
The resulting trucker strikes, airline defaults, slide in the energy stocks, and food shortages will come as a complete surprise. But a pleasant one, to Rahm…
hawksruleva on March 9, 2009 at 11:30 AM
I still think that the major impact will be on manufacturing…as bad as the classes will be hit, most don’t have a firm “budget”, and the ability to pack up and move.
Business will budget the increase, see the need to move to more off-shore manufacturing, and you will have another down turn, slow but steady, from business that need to make a profit.
Of course, that effect the “classes”, because there will be fewer jobs.
Virginia will be especially hit, since coal will be one of the big “sinners”.
right2bright on March 9, 2009 at 11:30 AM
Obama has usually done everything in plain sight. Before the election, I would direct people to his campaign pages, where such things as “encouraging” volunteer duty from senior citizens, with the enticement of getting some consideration in their medical costs, were written out plain as day.
Plus all this other stuff.
But – I couldn’t get anyone to look at the pages! And even if they did, the many things that were there that would cause a thinking person much pause – they just blew off!
It was the damnedest thing. And continues to this day.
Alana on March 9, 2009 at 11:32 AM
FOUR WORDS THAT SPELL THE END OF 80% OF REMAINING US MANUFACTURING:
Cap
Trade
Card
Check
Mark Garnett on March 9, 2009 at 11:32 AM
Yep.
On a thread the other week we were talking about the idea that some people are going to die due to this cap and trade.
I live in Florida and the heat can be oppressive in summer. Elderly people and those with health conditions need air conditioning to stay alive. I think heart problems and breathing difficulties are exacerbated.
Not only that, but homes are not built to be used without air conditioning. They are boxes with rooms three deep, and some homes have walls with no windows crammed together without a tree in sight. They’re no longer homes built with surrounding trees with lots of windows to catch a cross breeze, nor are they homes with high ceilings or sleeping porches to make heat bearable.
Someone else in the Midwest, I believe, told the other side of the story with the elderly already feeling the pinch from a cold winter.
This is so incredibly, stupidly, criminally irresponsible.
INC on March 9, 2009 at 11:33 AM
Anyone remember the heat wave in Britian a few years back?
Killed HUNDREDS of older folks, left without medical care and power for AC’s, ect…
Coming to a neighborhood near you… THIS SUMMER!
Cap & Trade = UNAFFORDABLE ENERGY COSTS for ALL
Average Joe talking to Obama:
“What… no K-Y?”
Mark Garnett on March 9, 2009 at 11:42 AM
No Ed you are wrong Obama will simply do a Hugo and put in price controls and then when the black market crops up Obama will simply take over the company’s like Hugo just did with the food produces. This is what socialism does. It’s plocies cause unintended consequences and then they try to fix those consequences and on and on until they screwed up things so bad they have to take every thing over and force everything to behave like they thought it should. When people still do not behave they start the mass killings
unseen on March 9, 2009 at 11:45 AM
There’s a way to do that in aggregate, it’s called a Value Added Tax, or a Goods and Services Tax; the theory being that the rich spend more on taxed goods than the “poor” (every seen a country with so many fat “poor” people?), and therefore pay a greater percentage of their income in tax. It’s usually sold by governments as a way to reduce income tax: “but we have to introduce the VAT first, so we know how much money it will raise”. Surprise, what the electorate is left with is VAT plus income tax.
mr.blacksheep on March 9, 2009 at 11:54 AM
Yep, the Obamabots are going to be in for a real surprise when those cap and trade costs start filtering down. Al Gore’s going to find it real hard to keep people green when they see all that money floating out the door because some asshole in DC decides who gets “carbon permits” and at what cost.
But never fear, those rainbow unicorns are working night and day and pretty soon now we will be up to our ears in “free” energy.
GarandFan on March 9, 2009 at 11:58 AM
Waitaminnute.
I heard someone from the administration saying that this “tax” would be “taken care of” by giving people a $700 tax credit.
So…tax us all into poverty and then put us all on Welfare.
29Victor on March 9, 2009 at 12:03 PM
patience my fellow Americans. they will be gone in a few years. tho will take a few good *God fearing,bible readin redneck, patriots.* Then we shall right-all of the wrongs of the big government socialist entitlement programs.
God Bless
hawkman on March 9, 2009 at 12:04 PM
The upshot of this is he won’t have the energy to try to tackle this type of takeover. Way too much work.
tru2tx on March 9, 2009 at 12:10 PM
His supporters didn’t understand it, but he knew full well what he was saying and proposing.
MarkT on March 9, 2009 at 12:17 PM
so what–i can’t have a woodstove anymore? i can’t burn brush? timber companies can’t burn over cut timber to facilitate replanting? i bet i won’t be able to fish either since the trolling motor causes ripples in the water.
kelley in virginia on March 9, 2009 at 12:33 PM
There is nothing to stop Energy companies from doing this now. In fact the Fuel companies should detail, on each and every receipt, how much of that $2.30/Gal price tag is fees and state and local taxes and how much is ‘local retailer profit’ and ‘supplier profit’.
But, like the withholding taxes – they remain hidden.
CrazyFool on March 9, 2009 at 12:34 PM
In WV American Electric Power just asked for a 43% rate hike to pay for (among other things) controls they had to install to meet NOX and SO2 air pollution regulations. And these are controls that were already a viable option. CO2 controls (carbon sequestration) is NOT a commercially available control technology.
http://www.statejournal.com/story.cfm?func=viewstory&storyid=53833
UcantCme on March 9, 2009 at 12:49 PM
“Anyone who believed obama was not going to rasie taxes on everyone is a moron.
This is hardly news to people who can think for themselves.
sonofdy on March 9, 2009 at 10:29 AM”
The majority of Americans ARE morons! Most don’t read, or are critical thinkers. They operate on their “feelings” and what is hip and cool.
They are in for a a VERY rude awakening.
Star20 on March 9, 2009 at 12:54 PM
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