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David Frum Does Not Speak for Me Any More Than Rush Limbaugh Does

posted at 7:00 am on March 8, 2009 by Patterico
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I recently risked being labeled one of the “oddballs” at Hot Air when I said that, while I believe Rush Limbaugh is a very talented salesman for conservative values, I think it would be counterproductive to set him up as the head of the conservative movement. As long as I’m carrying around “NOT IN MY NAME” placards, let me add another person who doesn’t speak for me: David Frum.

Frum has a NEWSWEEK piece that expands on his recent comments about Rush Limbaugh. Even as Frum purports to set forth his conservative bonafides, he undermines them:

I supported the Iraq War and (although I feel kind of silly about it in retrospect) the impeachment of Bill Clinton.

I don’t see why a conservative would feel “silly” about having supported the impeachment of a man who committed perjury and obstruction of justice, and abused the power of his office to destroy the reputations of people whom he considered a political danger. Frum makes no argument why Clinton’s impeachment was wrong. Without that argument, his comment seems like an unnecessary concession to the liberal cocktail set — a way to get the “good people” to take his argument seriously.

Frum also repeats an offensive set of comments he made on his blog earlier this week — comments that I bashed as contradictory and unnecessarily insulting:

With his private plane and his cigars, his history of drug dependency and his personal bulk, not to mention his tangled marital history, Rush is a walking stereotype of self-indulgence—exactly the image that Barack Obama most wants to affix to our philosophy and our party.

In other words, Rush Limbaugh Is a Big Fat Idiot. Well, Mr. Frum, we already have one too many Al Frankens in politics. We don’t need another. Limbaugh’s bulk and private life have bupkis to do with his arguments, and you devalue the debate if you maintain that they are in any way relevant.

Here’s where Frum almost makes a good point, except that he phrases it in a hopelessly naive way:

Notice that Limbaugh did not say: “I hope the administration’s liberal plans fail.” Or (better): “I know the administration’s liberal plans will fail.” Or (best): “I fear that this administration’s liberal plans will fail, as liberal plans usually do.” If it had been phrased that way, nobody could have used Limbaugh’s words to misrepresent conservatives as clueless, indifferent or gleeful in the face of the most painful economic crisis in a generation. But then, if it had been phrased that way, nobody would have quoted his words at all—and as Limbaugh himself said, being “headlined” was the point of the exercise. If it had been phrased that way, Limbaugh’s face would not now be adorning the covers of magazines. He phrased his hope in a way that drew maximum attention to himself, offered maximum benefit to the administration and did maximum harm to the party he claims to support.

It’s crazy to say that “nobody could have used Limbaugh’s words to misrepresent conservatives . . .” Of course they could have, and of course they would have. They always do. That’s standard operating procedure for the media and leftists (but I repeat myself).

What Frum should have said is that phrasing the statement in the ways he suggests would have made it harder to distort Limbaugh’s meaning. Not impossible — just harder.

The problem with saying “I hope he fails” is that it’s open to so many interpretations. Reasonable people hearing “I hope he fails” might think Limbaugh hopes Obama’s policies, once enacted, will fail to save the economy. You think that’s a ridiculous interpretation? You may think you know what Limbaugh meant — but no matter what you think, there are conservatives equally certain that he meant something different.

I ran a poll on my site yesterday in which I said: of course no conservative wants Obama’s policies enacted. Of course Rush wants Obama to “fail” to enact them. But, assuming Obama’s policies are enacted anyway, do you interpret Rush to be saying that he wants the policies to 1) succeed, meaning the economy improves? or 2) fail, meaning socialism fails, allowing conservative principles to re-emerge?

The responses — primarily from conservative readers with no desire to misread Limbaugh’s words — were all over the map:

“It was #1, and no doubt about it.”

“Patterico, I think it is very clear that Mr. Limbaugh means #2″

“#1 obviously.”

Of course Limbaugh meant #2.”

If conservatives are this confused about Limbaugh’s message, then he didn’t express it clearly enough. And given the visibility of his CPAC speech, and the controversial nature of his remarks, he needed to be clear.

Some say: conservatives can’t worry about how they say things. They know their arguments will be distorted anyway, so they shouldn’t worry about being misinterpreted. I completely disagree with this argument. I say: when you know people will distort your meaning, you have to be extra careful to express yourself clearly.

Granted, there’s a tension between making your argument clear, and giving it punch. I understand and respect the view that if you word your statements in too lawyerly a fashion, with clarifications and caveats, you might sacrifice the forcefulness of your argument.

But you can be forceful and clear all at the same time. For example, Rush could have said: “It doesn’t matter what I hope for. I know he’ll fail.” That would have been just as effective and compelling — but possibly less controversial. And while the controversy generated by this uncertainty over Rush’s meaning has been good for his ratings, it’s doubtful that it has been good for conservatives.

What’s more, in his CPAC speech, he went out of his way to describe liberals as “deranged”:

I have learned how to tweak liberals everywhere. I do it instinctively now. Tweak them in the media. And no reason to be afraid of these people. Why in the world would you be afraid of the deranged?

Using the word “deranged” to describe liberals as a whole is just silly. It’s true of some of them. But not all of them. Calling liberals deranged may make you feel good, and it may make you laugh. But many of you consider Limbaugh to be the spokesman of the conservative movement — and if our spokesmen regularly say stuff like that, we’ll alienate voters. And then, we’ll get eight years of Obama and his crazy spending that is killing our children’s future.

When I choose leaders and spokesmen for my party and my political movement, I want clarity, vigor, integrity, perspective, and a lack of pettiness. In my view, David Frum — with his comments about Limbaugh’s bulk and personal life — showed pettiness. With his ambivalence about Clinton’s impeachment — not justified by any argument but made as an aside as if to curry favor with the elite — Frum lacks the integrity of a true conservative.

Rush has many of the above qualities — but when he calls liberals “deranged,” I think he lacks perspective. And when he said “I hope he fails,” I think he sacrificed clarity for controversy.

We can do better. Rush Limbaugh does not speak for me. And neither does David Frum.

UPDATE: At the same time, we can’t allow Democrats to seize the moral high ground on this. Here’s hard proof they didn’t want Bush to succeed.


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the president of the United States: soft-spoken and conciliatory, never angry, always invoking the recession and its victims. This president invokes the language of “responsibility,” and in his own life seems to epitomize that ideal: He is physically honed and disciplined, his worst vice an occasional cigarette.
And as a “conservative” what specific issues do you have with our President? If you are so tired of the current political climate, instead of running your resume, why don’t you explain to us why Obama should or should not be followed off of the cliff. Something other than because he is a great father or because he has awesome pecs.
Until then, I think I will stick with Mark and think you are a putz.

JeffinOrlando on March 8, 2009 at 3:12 PM

RUSH SPEAKS FOR ME

I hope Obama fails, in foreign and domestic policy. his policies will be enacted, and I hope they fail miserably to recover the economy…but I don’t have to hope…I KNOW socialism fails every time its tried. its not even a question…all Obama is about is turning this country into a fascist state…and he will succeed in that. and then I want the country to FAIL…collapse…clear?

right4life on March 8, 2009 at 3:13 PM

Probably the most eye-rolling embarrassing part of all this is where Patterico insists in this thread that he is right because he took a poll on his blog that confirmed his rightness. Alrighty then.

whatcat on March 8, 2009 at 3:14 PM

Off the subject a bit:
Yesterday we had a REVOLT-RECALL-REPEAL no tax rally in Fullerton California. 15,000 people showed up for a fun filled recall petition signing, Crush Governor Arnold Kennedy Terminator movies, remove all the REPUBLICAN suckremento politicians that pledged and signed NO NEW TAXES then raised our taxes.
As a republican, all republicans in the California Assembly and Senate need to be recalled or voted out next election.
It makes no difference whether we have republicans in office or not, they still vote for the party and not the people. They’re useless democrats in rino drag anyway

MALICIOUS DISORDER on March 8, 2009 at 3:19 PM

The way Allahpundit gets treated here for having the courage to tell the truth as he sees it is sometimes shameful.

and the other day some doofus was offering to pay Michelle to have him fired.

and in my view he should have been banned for taking the issue that far.

There you go, folks, free speach for the “elite intelligentsia” only. True colors are beginning to be shown.

peacenprosperity on March 8, 2009 at 3:20 PM

Instead of bandying this about endlessly, howzabout we figure out how to stop Cap and Trade from bringing more misery than is imaginable to our country and especially to those who Obama and the Democrats purport to champion?

hillbillyjim on March 8, 2009 at 3:21 PM

Instead of bandying this about endlessly, howzabout we figure out how to stop Cap and Trade from bringing more misery than is imaginable to our country and especially to those who Obama and the Democrats purport to champion?

hillbillyjim on March 8, 2009 at 3:21 PM

we should oppose it, of course, but it’ll go through…and I hope the poor are hurt the most…but you know whats sad, is that even places like detroit which are wastelands, they keep voting in democRATs…its beyond stupid, and extends into spiritual darkness…

right4life on March 8, 2009 at 3:24 PM

We can do better. Rush Limbaugh does not speak for me. And neither does David Frum.

If the Repubs could do better, they would do better. Don’t blame Rush for filling the void, blame the dearth of any other spokesperson who can adequately articulate the Repub message, whatever that is? Oh, wait!

Sailfish on March 8, 2009 at 3:28 PM

MALICIOUS DISORDER on March 8, 2009 at 3:19 PM

Won’t happen comrade… The voting block tilted long ago in Ca.; which is why I took my family and got the hell out. It hasn’t been easy rebuilding our lives in a new state, don’t get me wrong. We just felt like we owed it to our teenage sons to relocate to a state where they would stand a better chance of the American dream. Redistribution of Wealth and punishing employers started in Ca. some 15-20 years ago, best I could tell. The damages resulting in just these two programs started hitting hard by the late 90’s; most certainly by the time 9/11 hit, Ca. was already witnessing businesses leaving the state in huge numbers.

Keemo on March 8, 2009 at 3:29 PM

Stop throwing our allies (ie, Rush) under the bus to get a pat on the head from our enemies.
Frum is no ally, so he can be thrown under the wheels without any remorse….

TexasJew on March 8, 2009 at 3:30 PM

Let’s see if I can make this as simple for all these brilliant “conservative” pundits telling us how to think, who should be able to speak and who we should listen to. jimmy carter had a failed presidency because he was successful at implementing his ideas. Our real estate and banking industry have just about collapsed because of policies jimmy carter successfully implemented. We at some point will likely be in an even greater struggle against islamic world domination because jimmy successfully implemented his own foreign policy ideas. And now barry will likely be successful at limiting our free speach because “conservative” pundits are helping demonize the most visable as well as honest consrvative around.

Nice job you brilliant bloggers and pundits.

peacenprosperity on March 8, 2009 at 3:34 PM

Rush Limbaugh does indeed speak for me. Validates mainstream conservatism at a national level and is the balance to the shameless bias of the Drive By Media.

And yes, I hope The Messiah fails. Miserably. Colossally. On as grand a stage as possible. Why? Because he’s a socialist. A Marxist. And if He succeeds, America fails. And I want America to succeed, not become Venezuela North or Sweden West.

pdigaudio on March 8, 2009 at 3:35 PM

Gingrich Piles On Rush: Hoping For Obama’s Failure Is “Irrational”.

They are tossing rush under the bus but perhaps a leader will emerge.

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 3:36 PM

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 3:36 PM

Gingrich has since had to explain himself on every show he could get himself on… Nice try ass wipe.

Keemo on March 8, 2009 at 3:41 PM

I still think all this “controversy” about what Rush said or didn’t say, meant or didn’t mean, did what it was intended to do. Break the log jam of no criticism of the president. Now people are starting to ask some questions and considering the possibility that the smartest most handsomest man in the world may not know what the hell he’s doing.

Cindy Munford on March 8, 2009 at 3:41 PM

I listened to an audio of Mark Levin debating Frum.

All Frum did was shriek and filibuster on Levin’s show.

At the very end, Levin successfully got Frum to summarize his stance on what the GOP needs to do. Frum stated three or four things–each was very Liberal.

I couldn’t believe Frum actually said them out loud without the slightest clue about how insane they were.

Frum is no Conservative. He is a Liberal. Frum wants the GOP to become the Democrat party. I guess that helps his cocktail party lifestyle with Peggy Noonan.

Frum reminds me of a weasel.

Montana on March 8, 2009 at 3:48 PM

peacenprosperity on March 8, 2009 at 3:34 PM

Yep, about sums up the situation pretty good! Obama has moved onto Socialized Medicine, talks with Syria, rebuilding the Gaza strip with our money… The man is on a mission that demands stealth and speed, and here we sit correcting Rush on a tiny portion of a days worth of work.

I wonder if any of our pundits have read the porkulus package yet… Seems like that little piece rammed through has been overlooked while we are busy correcting Rush.

Keemo on March 8, 2009 at 3:48 PM

Keemo on March 8, 2009 at 3:41 PM

I think you are confusing Newt with that Ga. rep that cowered to your leader, Gingrey.

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 3:48 PM

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 3:48 PM

Your playing catch-up with the real world. Newt stepped in it big time, got way in over his head, and started back peddling as soon as his office phones started ringing off the hook. I think his email got melted!

Keemo on March 8, 2009 at 3:52 PM

Montana on March 8, 2009 at 3:48 PM

I’m assuming you are a fellow Montanan? If so, we should hook up so that we can help with grassroots efforts to educate our fellow citizens on just what Tester and Baucus are up to and how they are voting. Both of our Senators are 100% on board with Obama and Pelosi…

Keemo on March 8, 2009 at 3:55 PM

Oh, by the way, Rush speaks for me.

He also has a pair of balls, crude as that sounds, but hey, Rush is a man. I remember a day when being a man meant something, versus today’s metro-pundits who relegate themselves to pecking at the crumbs of Rush’s words.

Rush is honest and direct. You know where he stands. I prefer that over prevaricating, politically correct, in-touch-with-their-feeling pundits. Hi Mr Frum.

Montana on March 8, 2009 at 3:56 PM

Montana on March 8, 2009 at 3:48 PM

I’m assuming you are a fellow Montanan? If so, we should hook up so that we can help with grassroots efforts to educate our fellow citizens on just what Tester and Baucus are up to and how they are voting. Both of our Senators are 100% on board with Obama and Pelosi…

Keemo on March 8, 2009 at 3:55 PM

Yes I am. Some of my friends were saying the same thing as you did above. People are getting pretty fed up. Tester was a trojan horse. He went from being “Mr. Buzz Cut Montanan” to Nancy Pelosi’s San Fran Lap Dog.

Pretty embarrassing!

Montana on March 8, 2009 at 3:58 PM

Keemo on March 8, 2009 at 3:52 PM

That fast? He was on MTP this morning.

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 3:58 PM

Is it tactically smart to cede the point to the left like Patterico here? I think one could argue that. The problem here is that tactics don’t win wars, strategery does, and this tactical win will ultimately push us toward a strategic loss.

doubleplusundead on March 8, 2009 at 2:55 PM

Just what is your strategy then?
I’d love to hear someone articulate it.
Spending freeze?
lol

strangelet on March 8, 2009 at 3:58 PM

I think you are confusing Newt with that Ga. rep that cowered to your leader, Gingrey.

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 3:48 PM

Obfuscate much. Your union boss is going to have to take up your overtime with Axelrod. Time for you to get a life.

msmveritas on March 8, 2009 at 4:00 PM

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 3:58 PM

So what, the man is obsessed with a microphone and cameras. If he repeated his position that Rush Limbaugh is this or that or something or a fish or a dead beat drug addict or a commy or a …….

Keemo on March 8, 2009 at 4:02 PM

msmveritas on March 8, 2009 at 4:00 PM

No just talking to keemo.

If ya’ll got Newt to cower this fast, that has to be a record.

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 4:02 PM

Y’all might want to check the update. I have posted hard proof that the Democrats didn’t want Bush to succeed.

Patterico on March 8, 2009 at 4:03 PM

Keemo on March 8, 2009 at 4:02 PM

Well, he probably wants to lead and run in 12.

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 4:04 PM

If ya’ll got Newt to cower this fast, that has to be a record.

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 4:02 PM

If ya wanna get old skool, Dick Armey says he agrees 100% with Rush and the GOP is falling into the White House’s liberal trap by throwing him under the bus.

chunderroad on March 8, 2009 at 4:04 PM

If ya’ll got Newt to cower this fast, that has to be a record.

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 4:02 PM

I don’t know about new ‘cowering’ but I sure know you bend over every time you can for the democrats…

right4life on March 8, 2009 at 4:05 PM

“I mean, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. And sometimes Rush Limbaugh says stuff just to be controversial and get attention.”

I would like you to point out something that Rush has said that he didn’t mean.

disa on March 8, 2009 at 4:06 PM

Well, he probably wants to lead and run in 12.

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 4:04 PM

Newt run in 2012? Not with his big old cheeks still imprinted on that couch next to Nancy Pelosi’s. He wouldn’t even take on Steele for RNC chair.

chunderroad on March 8, 2009 at 4:06 PM

Pretty embarrassing!

Montana on March 8, 2009 at 3:58 PM

More than embarrassing comrade; I watched this “20 year plan” work to perfection in California. Bring in Democrats and run on a gun totin Conservative platform, and then slowly (stealth like) change the state into a Liberal paradise. (2) Liberal Senators, a Liberal Governor, and the mission begins. Look for sale tax to come our way; look for property taxes to continue to rise; look for small business to be attacked and unionized… The list is long, and they work steady and consistent on the 20 year plan. Exactly why Obama spent so much time here in our state. They think they can turn this state, and they probably will in time if they can bring the ranchers to their knees…

Keemo on March 8, 2009 at 4:07 PM

Y’all might want to check the update. I have posted hard proof that the Democrats didn’t want Bush to succeed.

Patterico on March 8, 2009 at 4:03 PM

Thanks, but we all knew this without any need for “hard proof”. Our memories are quite clear and we understand the left and their desires.

I’ll repeat my analogy once again:

Lenin succeeded.
Lenin’s policies were utter failures.
Russia suffered for decades in hell, anyway.

progressoverpeace on March 8, 2009 at 4:08 PM

I would like you to point out something that Rush has said that he didn’t mean.

disa on March 8, 2009 at 4:06 PM

the libs project upon rush, they think he’s like them, a prevaricating fraud, and will say things just for a few bucks, or a few votes…

right4life on March 8, 2009 at 4:08 PM

I completely disagree with this argument. I say: when you know people will distort your meaning, you have to be extra careful to express yourself clearly. — Patterico

I understand your point. It sounds convincing. However, I disagree.

I’ll paraphrase Gen. US Grant”

“I am tired of hearing what Gen. Lee is going to do to us. I am more focused on what we are going to do to him

What Grant did was change tactics. Before him, US generals spent most of their time fretting about what was going to be done to them…so they crept slowly around, taking every precaution possible, and in so doing, insured several things:

1. They never DID anything
2. They played the part of prey and let Lee be the predator
3. They became reactionary, not proactive
4. They got their arses handed to them over and over

So I disagree that we should engage Liberals on the ground of their choosing–that being the ground of the Politically Correct. The ground of nit-pickers, race-baiters, victims.

We need to state our principles simply, forcefully and without apology. Optimism, unabashed pride in being American and yes, the swagger of a man.

What you advocate, Patterico, is surrender of initiative. You advocate we play the Liberals game per their rules. That is at least how I read your post.

Montana on March 8, 2009 at 4:08 PM

Thanks, but we all knew this without any need for “hard proof”. Our memories are quite clear and we understand the left and their desires.

progressoverpeace on March 8, 2009 at 4:08 PM

very true their lies don’t work on us. its amazing that anyone is stupid enough to thinkg democRATs ‘care’ for them…but they keep voting in democRATs in places like detroit..the stupidity of liberals is the only thing beyond our understanding….

right4life on March 8, 2009 at 4:10 PM

Patterico on March 8, 2009 at 4:03 PM

‘getalife’ and his Ilk are annoying Libtard trolls, so they won’t look at or listen to anything you or I say. “get” is one of the stupider ones, with an inability to write more than two poorly-connected sentences in a post–while spewing out dumbed-down versions of the Usual Talking Points

menawhile……

RUSH SPEAKS FOR ME

He’s a talk show host, though, not a political leader–and should be judged by different standards ( and maybe not taken entirely seriously )

in the realm of political leaders,

SARAH PALIN SPEAKS FOR ME

Janos Hunyadi on March 8, 2009 at 4:10 PM

Here’s what I don’t get…

Ok so Rush said something you think wasn’t phrased perfectly. He says what, 10,000 words per day? Perhaps more? It’s bound to happen at some point that something can be taken out of context or distorted or is even just straight up wrong.

But Rush is on our side. He fights day in and day out for our cause and endures more hatred than most of us can even imagine. Why do some on our side need to attack him? What does it help?

Rush isn’t the leader of all conservatism and I don’t think he claims to be. It would be one thing if you went after people who said he was, or went after people saying he was infallible but that’s not what you’re doing here. You went after Rush himself and I think that’s wrong and hurtful to the future of the party and by extension the country.

I guess the question is why, when you don’t disagree with Rush on any policy, go after him just because he didn’t phrase something perfectly? Why not focus on the real enemy, the democrats? Why get caught up in all this self-destruction?

Kronos on March 8, 2009 at 4:11 PM

Patterico on March 8, 2009 at 4:03 PM

Nice!!!

Keemo on March 8, 2009 at 4:11 PM

Patterico on March 8, 2009 at 4:03 PM

Interesting Fox News poll.

Shows unity after 9/11.

Then not so much.

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 4:11 PM

I thought Rush clarified himself pretty well in the CPAC speech. Perhaps -some- people weren’t listening as well as they thought they were.

Frum is an opportunist as well. If he could have generated that controversy himself (that translates into dollars) he surely would have done so, but he didn’t think of it first.

It’s probably too much to ask I think, but when people listen to other people they have to remember the orators style and put that into context. Rush’s style IS inflammatory no doubt, but he did say it loud and clear; he purposely does these things to annoy liberals, and it works.

Er….and why does anyone need another person to speak ‘for’ them anyway? No voice of your own?

Spiritk9 on March 8, 2009 at 4:13 PM

Montana on March 8, 2009 at 4:08 PM

But, but, but people hate Rush and we gotta keep sight of those voting on-the-fencers who think Nancy Pelosi is a famous ice skater.

sarc off

Fab post.

RepubChica on March 8, 2009 at 4:13 PM

Shows unity after 9/11.

Then not so much.

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 4:11 PM

about a day or so, until the democrats figured out they could USE the deaths of our soldiers to advance their political agenda…just as they did in vietnam..

right4life on March 8, 2009 at 4:14 PM

right4life on March 8, 2009 at 4:10 PM

I can understand the idiot liberals – they are emotional basketcases who are astoundingly dumb and take their problems out on everyone around them. No surprises, there; that’s who they are. It’s the apologists on the “right” I don’t understand, at all. There’s a lot of cowardice driving them, for sure, but there’s something deeper, too.

progressoverpeace on March 8, 2009 at 4:16 PM

right4life on March 8, 2009 at 4:14 PM

Usually there is unity after a crisis or a honeymoon for the new President.

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 4:16 PM

just saw a fox poll on fox news…24% think the government has its own money….uh let me guess….they’re democrats!!!

no one else could be SO STOOOOOPID…

right4life on March 8, 2009 at 4:16 PM

Er….and why does anyone need another person to speak ‘for’ them anyway? No voice of your own?

Spiritk9 on March 8, 2009 at 4:13 PM

Er, leaders have always spoken for others: that’s a significant part of what leaders DO. In politics ( in a democratic republic ), you give you vote to those who speak for you in Congress.

CBS isn’t going to send a flunky to interview ME for prime time, and they ain’t gonna let me into the House or Senate chamber, or into any state governors’ offices

chiefs and Indians, etc…..

Janos Hunyadi on March 8, 2009 at 4:17 PM

Usually there is unity after a crisis or a honeymoon for the new President.

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 4:16 PM

there wasn’t with bush…and there ain’t gonna be one with Obama…I hope he FAILS MISERABLY…and his supporters suffer the most!! how’s your 401k?? and with obama, it will NEVER recover!!!

right4life on March 8, 2009 at 4:18 PM


Y’all might want to check the update. I have posted hard proof that the Democrats didn’t want Bush to succeed.

Patterico on March 8, 2009 at 4:03 PM

Patterico’s blogsite: “It’s proof that the Democrats didn’t want Bush to succeed. They have no standing to claim the moral high ground. None.”

All Democrats wanted Bush to succeed? Before you were brow beating me that not all liberals are deranged. My, my, how generalities can go both ways. Hell, I’m sure Zell Miller (Dem) wanted to see Bush win the Iraq war. But you’re right, many Democrats wanted to see Bush fail on the war in Iraq like Reid, Pelosi, Obama….etc..just to name a few.

Kokonut on March 8, 2009 at 4:18 PM

Correction:

All Democrats wanted Bush NOT to succeed?

Kokonut on March 8, 2009 at 4:19 PM

Y’all might want to check the update. I have posted hard proof that the Democrats didn’t want Bush to succeed.

Patterico on March 8, 2009 at 4:03 PM

Thanks, good stuff to beat libs with.

conservnut on March 8, 2009 at 4:20 PM

There’s a lot of cowardice driving them, for sure, but there’s something deeper, too.

progressoverpeace on March 8, 2009 at 4:16 PM

I think there is some jealousy over Rush and his success on the right…

I just don’t get libs in detroit who vote democrat all the time…and live in a hell-hole…and I sure do not get some of my ‘christian’ (in name only) friends who think Obama is God’s gift…the most pro-abortion president every…I really don’t understand them at all…other than they’re lying to me and to themselves about being christian…

right4life on March 8, 2009 at 4:20 PM

Kokonut on March 8, 2009 at 4:18 PM

Please stop bolding your entire posts. It doesn’t give them worth.

MadisonConservative on March 8, 2009 at 4:22 PM

Usually there is unity after a crisis or a honeymoon for the new President.

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 4:16 PM

Exactly what Obama-Pelosi have counted on; exactly why they are pushing so hard and so fast… They are using that very dynamic as a tool… Geez

Keemo on March 8, 2009 at 4:22 PM

Keemo on March 8, 2009 at 4:22 PM

Yup.

w used it too after 9/11.

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 4:24 PM

But you’re right, many Democrats wanted to see Bush fail on the war in Iraq like Reid, Pelosi, Obama….etc..just to name a few.

Kokonut on March 8, 2009 at 4:18 PM

They didn’t just want Bush in the war, they wanted to prosecute as many US military as they could. The left didn’t care about Iraq (or any other military engagement) – they just hate the military and are always looking to demonize the military and arrest military/security personnel at every opportunity (just as they’re trying to do now with their idiotic and dangerous witch trials to prosecute all of our spies/interrogators who helped keep us safe).

Most of the left are a bunch of guilt-ridden, self-haters who want everything that reminds them of themselves to be destroyed. The other part of the left are morons like the Precedent who are filled with anger and want to exact revenge and destroy eveything that has anything to do with the West and Western civilization.

progressoverpeace on March 8, 2009 at 4:25 PM

Patterico’s blogsite: “It’s proof that the Democrats didn’t want Bush to succeed. They have no standing to claim the moral high ground. None.”

Zactly. So henceforth, let’s cease and desist from giving them said moral high ground.

RepubChica on March 8, 2009 at 4:26 PM

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 4:24 PM

Honestly getalife, I think Bush was as shocked as the rest of us, and I’m pretty sure Bush was a pissed off as the rest of us. I will always admire Bush for the way he handled an attack on American soil. Paper Tigers is what expected of Americans, pissed off warriors is what they got.

Keemo on March 8, 2009 at 4:30 PM

I think there is some jealousy over Rush and his success on the right…

Very true.

I just don’t get libs in detroit who vote democrat all the time…and live in a hell-hole…and I sure do not get some of my ‘christian’ (in name only) friends who think Obama is God’s gift…the most pro-abortion president every…I really don’t understand them at all…other than they’re lying to me and to themselves about being christian…

right4life on March 8, 2009 at 4:20 PM

They are ruled by emotions (very warped emotions, for the most part) and never really think about what they’re doing or supporting. That’s just a staple of the left. It’s very strange to watch, and very dangerous to see exercised in politics.

progressoverpeace on March 8, 2009 at 4:30 PM

I like your honesty!

youngO on March 8, 2009 at 4:30 PM

Paper Tigers is what expected of Americans, pissed off warriors is what they got.

Keemo on March 8, 2009 at 4:30 PM

under Obama they’re going to get the RAINBOW warriors…although a bunch of lesbians at the wrong time of the month can be pretty scary….

right4life on March 8, 2009 at 4:33 PM

Keemo on March 8, 2009 at 4:30 PM

Yes, a huge majority wanted to get obl and there was unity but it fell apart when no WMD’s were found in Iraq.

Still the dems in Congress gave him everything he asked for and many moderates caught anger for it like the three gop today. Moderates and crisis get things passed fast.

Sunni moderates brought peace in Iraq and now they are looking for moderates in the Taliban.

Not sure if there are moderates in the Taliban.

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 4:36 PM

“…The problem with saying “I hope he fails” is that it’s open to so many interpretations…”-pitter patter

.

What a load of pussy-footin MANURE!
.
What Rush said during the Hannity interview was abundantly clear! Go back and listen, or read the transcript. These self important, agenda driven spinners like Frum, Obama, Carvel, Begala, etc etc etc have cherry-picked a phrase out of context, and are now waving the remnants around, like a bunch of street crazed Arabs burning an American flag! Fluck em!
.
For the record: I too hope that Obama fails–I know who he is–, just as I had hope that Clinton failed, and Carter and Johnson before them! Seems prophetic that when it comes to Democrats, my wishes always comes true — hey maybe I’m an oracle?
.
What Rush brings to the dance, is the brains, footwork, and guts to tweak these “DERANGED” socialist malcontents so that their anti-American drool and drivel becomes obvious to even the most casual listener!
.
What the GOP needs is more leaders with the caliber of Rush Limbaugh, and less of, the kumbyah middling cheerleaders like, Powell, McCain, Steele,etal. Make no mistake, our Obama refortified anti-American enemies will provide many more opportunities for the nervous nellies in congress to join hands on the Capitol steps and sing “God Bless America” offkey — Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammo!
.
“Let’s Roll”

On Watch on March 8, 2009 at 4:37 PM

NO.

Kokonut on March 8, 2009 at 4:40 PM

What a load of pussy-footin MANURE!

Speaking of Keith Olberman, THE Leader of the Democrat Party…..

TN Mom on March 8, 2009 at 4:41 PM

Yes, a huge majority wanted to get obl and there was unity but it fell apart when no WMD’s were found in Iraq.

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 4:36 PM

More cr#p from the traitorous left. The Iraq War ended up with the discovery of much more WMD than anyone ever imagined would be found in Iraq. That war scared the living sh!t out of the middle east (until the left started in with their treasonous rhetoric after Saddam was captured and they felt safe enough, again, to be bad-mouthing the US) and caused Libya to cry, “Uncle” and turn over its entire nuke program, which included an entree into the true depth of the AQ Khan network and got that network shut down – which was much, much more important WMD than stockpiles in Iraq.

Get a brain.

progressoverpeace on March 8, 2009 at 4:44 PM

Patterico….the contest for electoral votes is memetic warfare.
You are correct in sayin’ that Rush handed free live ammo to the enemy.
Obama is a deep pragmatist, and so has you guyz outgunned every time.
Pragmatic memes trump idealistic memes every time.
Goldstein says take back the language…..well….so what?
Let’s say you get it back…..what is it you are trying to say?
All you have right now is opposition to everything for opposition’s sake.
Like darleen said, refuse to play.
But you can’t take the ball and go home when u don’t have a ball.
Refusing to engage is tantamount to surrender.

strangelet on March 8, 2009 at 4:45 PM

w used it too after 9/11.

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 4:24 PM

How did the increased security measures after 911 benefit Bush personally or politically? (crickets)

chunderroad on March 8, 2009 at 4:47 PM

It is moot folks.

Look at the DOW, the S&P… Obama has ALREADY failed.

TCJ on March 8, 2009 at 4:57 PM

Yes, a huge majority wanted to get obl and there was unity but it fell apart when no WMD’s were found in Iraq.

Still the dems in Congress gave him everything he asked for and many moderates caught anger for it like the three gop today. Moderates and crisis get things passed fast.

Sunni moderates brought peace in Iraq and now they are looking for moderates in the Taliban.

Not sure if there are moderates in the Taliban.

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 4:36 PM

The Dems tacked earmarks and loaded pork onto every spending bill for the war. The deficit quadrupled once they took Congress.

WMDs were never the reason we sent troops into Iraq. It was so inspectors could continue looking for WMDs, and even those stipulations were not laid out in no uncertain terms in the original legislation.

Saddam killed at least twice as many of his own people as American troops allegedly did. He had been communicating with OBL and Al Quaeda for over a decade, but we could not determine the extent of those communications and whether they were operational.

Iraq had a nuclear weapons program, which the UN could never accurately evaluate, since they’d signed the non-proliferation treaty and could game the weapons inspectors. They had biological and chemical weapons programs.

There was every reason to go into Iraq, since we could not take Saddam at his word or trust the UN weapons inspectors. 911 showed us that deterrence and containment were no longer viable strategies, and we could not risk another attack on US soil or our allies or national interests in the Middle East.

chunderroad on March 8, 2009 at 4:58 PM

right4life on March 8, 2009 at 4:33 PM

Exactly.. We are sitting ducks right now. Obama just signed a porkulus bill that is money we don’t have. If we get hit again, our economy could collapse. Many foreign countries are predicting the total collapse of America. Most of us flip them the bird and go about our day. Some of us realize that we are financially crippled at this moment in time, and Obama is making sure we dig the hole much deeper thus becoming even more vulnerable. We have States declaring bankruptcy, we have millions of hard working citizens losing their retirement funds, we have job markets shrinking by the day, we have foreign investors refusing to invest in America.

I fear the real plan of Obama and those who surround him, is to bring about the collapse of our financial markets in the power grab of all times.

Keemo on March 8, 2009 at 5:00 PM

I might add this once again; go back to 2006 when the Liberals took over our government. We have been set up perfectly.

Keemo on March 8, 2009 at 5:01 PM

Obama will use spring summit to bring Cuba in from the cold

US companies are queuing up as the president moves to ease restrictions on travel and trade, raising hopes of warmer relations and an end to the embargo.

President Barack Obama is poised to offer an olive branch to Cuba in an effort to repair the US’s tattered reputation in Latin America.

The White House has moved to ease some travel and trade restrictions as a cautious first step towards better ties with Havana, raising hopes of an eventual lifting of the four-decade-old economic embargo. Several Bush-era controls are expected to be relaxed in the run-up to next month’s Summit of the Americas in Trinidad and Tobago to gild the president’s regional debut and signal a new era of “Yankee” cooperation.

The administration has moved to ease draconian travel controls and lift limits on cash remittances that Cuban-Americans can send to the island, a lifeline for hundreds of thousands of families.

Flipping the bird to Britain & Israel, while making love to Syria, Venezuela, Cuba, with efforts to make a little love with Russia…. What’s next, making love with North Korea while throwing South Korea under the bus?

Keemo on March 8, 2009 at 5:09 PM

…”All you have right now is opposition to everything for opposition’s sake”…strangelet on March 8,

.
That’s called DEFENCE my friend, and its just the opposite side of the ball! The Democrats played it for 8 years and finally scored with an assist from their biggest fans, the useful idiots and Leftist media.
.
If we hope to get possesion in the next quarter we had better play smashmouth razzle-dazzle as good or better than the Chicago Creeps and their Fanatics!
.
“Let’s Roll”

On Watch on March 8, 2009 at 5:13 PM

PATTERICO claimed:

“Using the word “deranged” to describe liberals as a whole is just silly. It’s true of some of them. But not all of them.”

Can you provide any EVIDENCE to back up your claim that not all liberals are “deranged”??

Because in my experience, liberals are by definition deranged. Liberalism is clearly a mental disorder as anyone that explores the depths (and twists) of liberal philosophy finds out.

TheMightyQuinn on March 8, 2009 at 5:14 PM

Can you provide any EVIDENCE to back up your claim that not all liberals are “deranged”??

TheMightyQuinn on March 8, 2009 at 5:14 PM

Not to those who never leave their basements. For the rest of us, who actually meet people who disagree with us, the evidence is everywhere.

MadisonConservative on March 8, 2009 at 5:18 PM

Glad you got out Keemo, too bad what happened to CA is happening in your state. At lease I’m still sitting here in 78 degree temp with sunshine everyday. We know whats going on and many, many, many more people are now coming together than ever before. We may not change things for a few years but one day we’ll get back to reality in this state. Too many people can’t be that ignorant all their lives.

MALICIOUS DISORDER on March 8, 2009 at 5:32 PM

MadisonConservative blathered:

“For the rest of us, who actually meet people who disagree with us, the evidence is everywhere.”

That’s funny you should say such a thing. I had talked to no less than 8 liberals/moderate liberals in the last weekend having spent some time at a Barnes & Noble, Borders and Starbucks and from my discussions with them they all fall into what has to include “the deranged”.

At least the ones that referred to themselves as liberal. Self-identified liberals.

The few moderately liberal people I talked with this weekend in those social settings seemed to LACK THE INTELLECTUAL EFFORT required to think about the important issues and form a concrete position on the important issues (abortion, taxes, national defense including border defense, etc.).

But yes, as usual, the self-identified liberals I have had discussions with while out reading and enjoying some decent coffee have turned out to be at the very least “deranged”.

TheMightyQuinn on March 8, 2009 at 5:32 PM

TheMightyQuinn on March 8, 2009 at 5:32 PM

Good to hear that you think everyone who disagrees with you is deranged. That says it all.

MadisonConservative on March 8, 2009 at 5:36 PM

Good to hear that you think everyone who disagrees with you is deranged. That says it all.

MadisonConservative on March 8, 2009 at 5:36 PM

Please. Modern, leftist ideology is based on the self-hate of guilt-ridden, emotional handicaps. Just ask them and they will tell you that their ideas are emotionally driven. Then look at what emotions are the exact drivers and you will have your answer. They are deranged by their illusory guilt. I don’t see what’s so difficult to understand, here. It’s all out in the open and obvious.

progressoverpeace on March 8, 2009 at 5:40 PM

“It was #1, and no doubt about it.”

“Patterico, I think it is very clear that Mr. Limbaugh means #2″

“#1 obviously.”

“Of course Limbaugh meant #2.”

I don’t think he said either one.

mikeyboss on March 8, 2009 at 5:40 PM

Please. Modern, leftist ideology is based on the self-hate of guilt-ridden, emotional handicaps. Just ask them and they will tell you that their ideas are emotionally driven. Then look at what emotions are the exact drivers and you will have your answer. They are deranged by their illusory guilt. I don’t see what’s so difficult to understand, here. It’s all out in the open and obvious.

progressoverpeace on March 8, 2009 at 5:40 PM

Being driven by emotions doesn’t make someone deranged. It makes them a woman. Also, if you hadn’t noticed, that mindset won over the voters the last two times. Dismissing them as deranged just ensures we won’t gain any more representation election after election. It’s also dead wrong.

MadisonConservative on March 8, 2009 at 5:48 PM

That’s called DEFENCE my friend

But you cant win with just defense and no offense.
What is your strategy to fix the Econopalypse brought to us by republican management?

strangelet on March 8, 2009 at 5:49 PM

TheMightyQuinn on March 8, 2009 at 5:32 PM

I’ve found the same to be true for years. I’ve tried to prove that wrong many times and always failed.

But our PC-Metroambigious-feel-good culture doesn’t allow us to say what you did out loud.

It’s all about coddling dontchaknow? Well, until it’s time to bash Conservatives, Christians, America, Values, Morales, and *gasp* PROFIT!

Then the deranged go all out Tourettes.

Montana on March 8, 2009 at 5:49 PM

You know, I’ve thought a lot about this Brooks/Frum conflict today, and I see a silver lining. Perhaps someone else has also pointed this out; there are just too many posts to read through.

If the Obama economy goes like we free market types believe it will, then things will be looking pretty grim for the nation (and its 401Ks) as we approach the 2010 and 2012 elections. Eventually, someone will rise up from the Republican ranks as a “frontrunner” of sorts — and, of course, it won’t be Rush Limbaugh. Perhaps it’ll be Romney or Jindal or Pawlenty or Sanford, maybe even Crist. Whatever. Someone will emerge (someone always does), and he or she will espouse a less socialist, more capitalist agenda. Oh, it may not be the Reagan agenda, but it’ll be Republican agenda of some sort or another designed to bring Wall Street and the nation’s wealth back from the brink.

This is when the Brooks and the Frums — darlings of the Obama media right now — will come home. They’ll have to. Frankly, at that point, it’ll be so easy for them to because the country will be in such full meltdown. At this point, the media will have to notice that Obama has “lost Brooks” and “lost Frum,” and “the Republican Party now has a message that’s resonating.”

Really. Having them scold the party now will likely pay dividends later.

Rational Thought on March 8, 2009 at 5:50 PM

I agree with Patterico.

Terrye on March 8, 2009 at 5:50 PM

Refusing to engage is tantamount to surrender.

strangelet on March 8, 2009 at 4:45 PM

But you advocate we engage on their ground, under their rules, and at the time of their choosing.

No. We engage on our terms. Prancing about our core values in an effort to cloak them in politically correct columns IS tantamount to surrender.

Montana on March 8, 2009 at 5:53 PM

Being driven by emotions doesn’t make someone deranged. It makes them a woman.

Just take a look at the part of my comment that YOU pasted:

“Then look at what emotions are the exact drivers and you will have your answer.”

They are driven by deranged emotions (illusroy guilt that leads to self-hate). The fact that their ideology is emotionally-driven, in general, just means that they aren’t open to rational debate.

Also, if you hadn’t noticed, that mindset won over the voters the last two times. Dismissing them as deranged just ensures we won’t gain any more representation election after election. It’s also dead wrong.

MadisonConservative on March 8, 2009 at 5:48 PM

It wasn’t just “that mindset”. There were a lot of moving parts to this coup. But we do have a huge percentage of deranged voters. That’s a fact. Just take a look at the governance of any large city. Just look at the deranged morons who voted Nagin back in …

progressoverpeace on March 8, 2009 at 5:54 PM

At lease I’m still sitting here in 78 degree temp with sunshine everyday.

MALICIOUS DISORDER on March 8, 2009 at 5:32 PM

G L O B A L WARMING!!!!!!11!!!!!111!!!!!

/thread

Montana on March 8, 2009 at 5:56 PM

Jeff wouldn’t mind speaking for himself, you know, if he could get his login info.

Dan Collins on March 8, 2009 at 5:57 PM

Prancing about our core values in an effort to cloak them in politically correct columns IS tantamount to surrender.

well….just what are your core values?
I keep asking.

strangelet on March 8, 2009 at 6:04 PM

What is your strategy to fix the Econopalypse brought to us by republican management?

strangelet on March 8, 2009 at 5:49 PM

the economy was pretty good until the democRATs took over congress…get a clue moron.

right4life on March 8, 2009 at 6:06 PM

well….just what are your core values?
I keep asking.

strangelet on March 8, 2009 at 6:04 PM

1) stopping leeches from taking other people’s money to live on.

2) freedom to succeed or fail.

3) protecting the innocent unborn from those who would cut a hole in their head an suck out their brains..

4) freedom of speech, religion, private property, etc.

in other words, everything that libs like you hate…

right4life on March 8, 2009 at 6:08 PM

I mean….let’s say Rush said what he said and then…..said this is what we need to do instead.
Bam!
Instead all he has is opposition for opposition sake, and to the electorate that looks like Rush is tryin to sabotage the only life line out there.
Do you think the electorate would be for a spending freeze right now?

strangelet on March 8, 2009 at 6:10 PM

The few moderately liberal people I talked with this weekend in those social settings seemed to LACK THE INTELLECTUAL EFFORT required to think about the important issues and form a concrete position on the important issues (abortion, taxes, national defense including border defense, etc.).

But yes, as usual, the self-identified liberals I have had discussions with while out reading and enjoying some decent coffee have turned out to be at the very least “deranged”.

TheMightyQuinn on March 8, 2009 at 5:32 PM

it goes beyond mere stupidity to a spiritual darkness that logic, truth, history, etc will not penetrate…

right4life on March 8, 2009 at 6:10 PM

right4life on March 8, 2009 at 6:06 PM

Yes. I have been complaining, for a while, that everyone lets the idiot messiah get away with his “last 8 years” bullsh!t when the Dems had control for the last two. Maybe Rush needs to make a nice, direct statement about this so that it can become part of the public discussion, finally. Of course, Patterico and others would then blast Rush for being divisive, or not careful enough in his wording … and then accuse people like us, who have held this exact thought waiting for SOMEONE to say it, of being “cultish” and following Rush.

progressoverpeace on March 8, 2009 at 6:11 PM

Do you think the electorate would be for a spending freeze right now?

strangelet on March 8, 2009 at 6:10 PM

yeah thats what most everyone is doing in their private life…duhhhhhhh…

because we know you can’t spend your way to prosperity..the bills come due….

its only the liberals who want their neighbors to bail them out from their own stupidity that believe that…

right4life on March 8, 2009 at 6:12 PM

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