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David Frum Does Not Speak for Me Any More Than Rush Limbaugh Does

posted at 7:00 am on March 8, 2009 by Patterico
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I recently risked being labeled one of the “oddballs” at Hot Air when I said that, while I believe Rush Limbaugh is a very talented salesman for conservative values, I think it would be counterproductive to set him up as the head of the conservative movement. As long as I’m carrying around “NOT IN MY NAME” placards, let me add another person who doesn’t speak for me: David Frum.

Frum has a NEWSWEEK piece that expands on his recent comments about Rush Limbaugh. Even as Frum purports to set forth his conservative bonafides, he undermines them:

I supported the Iraq War and (although I feel kind of silly about it in retrospect) the impeachment of Bill Clinton.

I don’t see why a conservative would feel “silly” about having supported the impeachment of a man who committed perjury and obstruction of justice, and abused the power of his office to destroy the reputations of people whom he considered a political danger. Frum makes no argument why Clinton’s impeachment was wrong. Without that argument, his comment seems like an unnecessary concession to the liberal cocktail set — a way to get the “good people” to take his argument seriously.

Frum also repeats an offensive set of comments he made on his blog earlier this week — comments that I bashed as contradictory and unnecessarily insulting:

With his private plane and his cigars, his history of drug dependency and his personal bulk, not to mention his tangled marital history, Rush is a walking stereotype of self-indulgence—exactly the image that Barack Obama most wants to affix to our philosophy and our party.

In other words, Rush Limbaugh Is a Big Fat Idiot. Well, Mr. Frum, we already have one too many Al Frankens in politics. We don’t need another. Limbaugh’s bulk and private life have bupkis to do with his arguments, and you devalue the debate if you maintain that they are in any way relevant.

Here’s where Frum almost makes a good point, except that he phrases it in a hopelessly naive way:

Notice that Limbaugh did not say: “I hope the administration’s liberal plans fail.” Or (better): “I know the administration’s liberal plans will fail.” Or (best): “I fear that this administration’s liberal plans will fail, as liberal plans usually do.” If it had been phrased that way, nobody could have used Limbaugh’s words to misrepresent conservatives as clueless, indifferent or gleeful in the face of the most painful economic crisis in a generation. But then, if it had been phrased that way, nobody would have quoted his words at all—and as Limbaugh himself said, being “headlined” was the point of the exercise. If it had been phrased that way, Limbaugh’s face would not now be adorning the covers of magazines. He phrased his hope in a way that drew maximum attention to himself, offered maximum benefit to the administration and did maximum harm to the party he claims to support.

It’s crazy to say that “nobody could have used Limbaugh’s words to misrepresent conservatives . . .” Of course they could have, and of course they would have. They always do. That’s standard operating procedure for the media and leftists (but I repeat myself).

What Frum should have said is that phrasing the statement in the ways he suggests would have made it harder to distort Limbaugh’s meaning. Not impossible — just harder.

The problem with saying “I hope he fails” is that it’s open to so many interpretations. Reasonable people hearing “I hope he fails” might think Limbaugh hopes Obama’s policies, once enacted, will fail to save the economy. You think that’s a ridiculous interpretation? You may think you know what Limbaugh meant — but no matter what you think, there are conservatives equally certain that he meant something different.

I ran a poll on my site yesterday in which I said: of course no conservative wants Obama’s policies enacted. Of course Rush wants Obama to “fail” to enact them. But, assuming Obama’s policies are enacted anyway, do you interpret Rush to be saying that he wants the policies to 1) succeed, meaning the economy improves? or 2) fail, meaning socialism fails, allowing conservative principles to re-emerge?

The responses — primarily from conservative readers with no desire to misread Limbaugh’s words — were all over the map:

“It was #1, and no doubt about it.”

“Patterico, I think it is very clear that Mr. Limbaugh means #2″

“#1 obviously.”

Of course Limbaugh meant #2.”

If conservatives are this confused about Limbaugh’s message, then he didn’t express it clearly enough. And given the visibility of his CPAC speech, and the controversial nature of his remarks, he needed to be clear.

Some say: conservatives can’t worry about how they say things. They know their arguments will be distorted anyway, so they shouldn’t worry about being misinterpreted. I completely disagree with this argument. I say: when you know people will distort your meaning, you have to be extra careful to express yourself clearly.

Granted, there’s a tension between making your argument clear, and giving it punch. I understand and respect the view that if you word your statements in too lawyerly a fashion, with clarifications and caveats, you might sacrifice the forcefulness of your argument.

But you can be forceful and clear all at the same time. For example, Rush could have said: “It doesn’t matter what I hope for. I know he’ll fail.” That would have been just as effective and compelling — but possibly less controversial. And while the controversy generated by this uncertainty over Rush’s meaning has been good for his ratings, it’s doubtful that it has been good for conservatives.

What’s more, in his CPAC speech, he went out of his way to describe liberals as “deranged”:

I have learned how to tweak liberals everywhere. I do it instinctively now. Tweak them in the media. And no reason to be afraid of these people. Why in the world would you be afraid of the deranged?

Using the word “deranged” to describe liberals as a whole is just silly. It’s true of some of them. But not all of them. Calling liberals deranged may make you feel good, and it may make you laugh. But many of you consider Limbaugh to be the spokesman of the conservative movement — and if our spokesmen regularly say stuff like that, we’ll alienate voters. And then, we’ll get eight years of Obama and his crazy spending that is killing our children’s future.

When I choose leaders and spokesmen for my party and my political movement, I want clarity, vigor, integrity, perspective, and a lack of pettiness. In my view, David Frum — with his comments about Limbaugh’s bulk and personal life — showed pettiness. With his ambivalence about Clinton’s impeachment — not justified by any argument but made as an aside as if to curry favor with the elite — Frum lacks the integrity of a true conservative.

Rush has many of the above qualities — but when he calls liberals “deranged,” I think he lacks perspective. And when he said “I hope he fails,” I think he sacrificed clarity for controversy.

We can do better. Rush Limbaugh does not speak for me. And neither does David Frum.

UPDATE: At the same time, we can’t allow Democrats to seize the moral high ground on this. Here’s hard proof they didn’t want Bush to succeed.


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At least my snark got your attention..

You and Pat are arguing that “we have to watch what we say”… some of are saying “What? We have to taylor our speech not to offend someone who already wants us silent?”

Is that not the whole “rationale” behind speech codes? Not to give offense even if that offense is irrational or unreasonable?

For pity’s sake, I’m already dealing at work with a subordinate who is trying to lay ground work for a “lawsuit retirement” by running around eavesdropping on people’s conversations in order to find “offending words and phrases” that create a “hostile work environment”. I work for the government so you KNOW our policies support the “offended” party.

Our work places and universities are already corrupted by this a**-backwards way with language, can we PLEASE shove it out of the political arena!

Darleen on March 8, 2009 at 1:45 PM

Liberalism is mental derangement. No sane person would rationalize anything the way they do. I don’t know how you could possibly come to any other conclusion.

silvernana on March 8, 2009 at 1:47 PM

Kokonut on March 8, 2009 at 1:40 PM

I’ll give one last comment: Kokonut, the policies you describe are deranged. That doesn’t mean all liberals are deranged, and it’s silly to say they are. Focus on the policies; we’ll do better with the voters that way.

Thanks, all.

Patterico on March 8, 2009 at 1:47 PM

TheUnrepentantGeek on March 8, 2009 at 1:35 PM

Go over to Patterico’s site where Goldstein turns himself into a total incredible @ss and get back to me.

Rovin on March 8, 2009 at 1:48 PM

Dude, this is so encouraging!
Conservatives debating!
The party needs creative destruction….or is it destructive creation?
It’s like the intellectual conservatives, Goldberg’s gorillas in the mist, do really exist!

but you’ll never completely undo the mistaken impression. Which is why Rush shouldn’t have made it possible in the first place. That’s all Pat is saying.

Two important concepts here that are correlated.
Once an individual learns something, it takes work to unlearn that thing.
And…the nature of the media is sensationalist.
Like a scorpion, you can’t change its nature.
Both Patterico and Goldstein are right inna way.
Patterico says don’t give the enemy free ammunition in wartime.
Goldstein says force people to be smarter, and force the media to change its stripes.
Which is easier? Prevention, of course.
But frankly, I think conservatives need to do both.

strangelet on March 8, 2009 at 1:49 PM

Thanks Pat

katy on March 8, 2009 at 1:50 PM

If Allah is the best blogger on ther internet and he gets so tired of people complaining about pushing his agenda on HA. Why can’t he just go start his own blog and make millions and millions and converting person after person into being an athiest moderate like himself

I always though this was Michelle Malkins site. Michelle I like and agree with, allah not so much.
It really has to do with what he choses to highlight and comment on and what he chooses to ignore. This goes all the way back to the election and it is not just Sarah Palin.
We get the fact you are an athiest and you love Chris Hitchins. After about 5000 post on this we get it so just move on..

kangjie on March 8, 2009 at 1:51 PM

I think conservatives as a whole need to start identifying their ideology not by particular issues, but first by basic concepts on how government should operate. We get easily swept away in social arguments, and even economic approaches. However, it all comes down to smaller government. That trumps everything on this side of the fence. It implies independence, self-reliance, and people taking responsibility for their problems rather than the government dealing with them. Damn near all issues, social or fiscal, can usually be disseminated based solely on this approach.

MadisonConservative on March 8, 2009 at 1:52 PM

Actually, I’m saying a little more: that Rush made it very difficult to attack the media distortion because it wasn’t clear to what extent it was a distortion.

I know this because I lived it.

I read an LAT piece by James Rainey invoking the “I hope he fails” phrase a while back, and I sprang into action looking to find Rush’s actual language and throw it back in Rainey’s face. “Rush isn’t trying to say the economy goes bad, Rainey! In fact, he said so!” Then I went and found Rush’s actual statement, and it wasn’t clear.

I knew Rush ultimately wanted the best for the country — but it wasn’t clear precisely how, and whether he would be OK with a brief economic downturn to demonstrate the failure of Obama’s policies.

I couldn’t defend him because he wasn’t clear about what he meant.

Patterico on March 8, 2009 at 1:40 PM

I can see why you’d be confused, given your rather high opinion of Obama’s character. He’s such a good man, you know.

TheUnrepentantGeek on March 8, 2009 at 1:54 PM

Go over to Patterico’s site where Goldstein turns himself into a total incredible @ss and get back to me.

Rovin on March 8, 2009 at 1:48 PM

Are you really at the mean = wrong level of discourse? Seriously?

TheUnrepentantGeek on March 8, 2009 at 1:55 PM

Why Patterico and AP wish to keep participating in that game cycle is puzzling.

Darleen on March 8, 2009 at 1:19 PM
Many of my personal friends (HA readers also) have the same feelings. Deserving of a reply… – Keemo

It would appear that RushDS figures in their ongoing problem of getting sucker-baited into Michael Steele-style dumbass attacks by Frumm and others. Should fall into the “fool me twice” category, to my thinking.

Someone else pointed out the fact that Patterico is just involved in a sockpuppet-variaton here to carry on with Goldstein re: Patterico’s Obama leg-thrill (Obama’s a great human being, y’know – just a little misguided). He should really keep that to his own blog.

But, indeed, their insistence on playing Obama’s planned game of Get-Rush is odd, to say the least.

whatcat on March 8, 2009 at 1:55 PM

Agreed MC… However, the conversation about Political Correctness is a topic that needs to be discussed so that we all understand the nature of a very successful silencing of free speech that was launched by Liberals and proved to be devastating for millions of Conservative minded people who bough into this crap hook-line & sinker.

I’d like to know what think tank came up with this attack on free speech.

Keemo on March 8, 2009 at 1:57 PM

Goldstein says force people to be smarter, and force the media to change its stripes.

Uh, no. He did not say that. He has said do not engage in the soft bigotry of low expectations — ie swing voters are drooling idiots that need to be spoonfed so don’t upset them with blunt rhetoric — and he has said DON’T concede the ground of Language to the Left.

When the Left lies about what you say, CALL ‘em on it. Don’t debate, don’t apologize, don’t accomodate…

The only way to win is not to play

Darleen on March 8, 2009 at 2:00 PM

To add on to MadsionConservative (although not to presume to speak for him, cause I think he’s absolutely right, it has to stop being about a petty way to feel good about yourself. We’re right, they’re wrong, you don’t know why they think what they think, you don’t know what they’ve seen or why they believe what they believe, and you sure as hell don’t know enough to suggest that it’s out of irrationality. And thankfully none of that matters. We’re right and they’re wrong, small government is better than big government, people are better with their money than the government is, business run better with private capital than they do with tax dollars, and so there’s absolutely no reason to attack the people on the left as people.

When we get into name calling garbage “You’re a smelly doo-doo head, you’re deranged, you have a mental disorder” you suck all of the credibility out of everything else you say, like it or not. It turns what could be a substantive criticism of policies into the equivalent of two kindergardeners fighting over a sandbox, and that hurts us worse than it hurts them because the substantive arguments prove our points right and their points wrong.

galenrox on March 8, 2009 at 2:01 PM

However, the conversation about Political Correctness is a topic that needs to be discussed so that we all understand the nature of a very successful silencing of free speech that was launched by Liberals and proved to be devastating for millions of Conservative minded people who bough into this crap hook-line & sinker.

I’d like to know what think tank came up with this attack on free speech.

Keemo on March 8, 2009 at 1:57 PM

Again, how is this an attack on free speech? No one is saying that Rush’s point was wrong, merely that he could have made the EXACT SAME POINT using words that were harder for the media to spin. No one is saying his point was wrong, merely that better phrasing would have produced less blowback.

MadisonConservative on March 8, 2009 at 2:02 PM

If we are going to have a guest contributor then why can’t it be Treacher.

carbon_footprint on March 8, 2009 at 2:02 PM

No one is saying his point was wrong, merely that better phrasing would have produced less blowback.

Madison, let’s do this

“No one is saying she deserved to be raped, but she shouldn’t have been wearing a short skirt.”

Now does it make a bit more sense that in telling someone they need to police their language you are already half way to conceding Language to the Left?

Darleen on March 8, 2009 at 2:05 PM

Rush,
please take it easy on Precedente Pinnochio this week. He has, according to some of his followers had a very unfortunate nervous breakdown. His hair is greying and falling out, he can’t sleep nights what with all that noise around the White House, all those bands and Hollyweed types. President Erkel gets indigestion from that Argula crap thus has to eat $100.00 steaks now that we the people pay for it and he has only been able to work in 3 measly vacations in 1-1/2 weeks at the first real job he has ever had.
He has managed so far to drive the world economy into the ditch, insult the leaders and people of Russia, Great Britian, Isreal, and others I forget. He has proposed a deficit higher than 8 years of the BOOOsh administration. Has propsed to end a war in 18 months though he funds it for ten years. All quite an accomplishment for a Post Turtle. We should have compassion and help him down from that post for the sake of Michelle and her kids.

dhunter on March 8, 2009 at 2:05 PM

When I choose leaders and spokesmen for my party and my political movement, I want…pettiness.
—Patterico

See?

SondraK on March 8, 2009 at 2:05 PM

oh yessssss he did.
He’s talkin’ education.
Linguistics for teh unwashed masses!
Seize control of teh language!
Linguistics Phd’s for everyone!
More dumb educational romanticism.
Here’s a cluebat for you Goldstein….most of the electorate just doesn’t have the substrate to get you.

strangelet on March 8, 2009 at 2:06 PM

No one is saying his point was wrong, merely that better phrasing would have produced less blowback.

MadisonConservative on March 8, 2009 at 2:02 PM

And Goldstein is saying that that’s an impossible standard that enables stupidity and empowers the left.

Continuing crap like this enables the endless gaffe reel of gotchas that make up our political discourse.

The only way to win is to not play.

TheUnrepentantGeek on March 8, 2009 at 2:06 PM

did you consider yourself “deranged” when you were voting Democrat?

I similarly and changed from Dem to Rep years ago, really changing from liberal to conservative and seeing the Republican Party more aligned with conservative principles.

As a liberal Democrat, I was dangerously un-informed by a steady diet of liberal education and liberal, anti-military media bias. The “fairness doctrine” (and parallel efforts to block conservative speech) is being sought in order to put the kibosh on “conversions” like mine, to keep un-informed people looking to the government for solutions.

I was un-informed, not deranged. It’s tough when the only conservative arguments being received are coming from the likes of George Will and David Brooks.

I submit that Rush’s sensationalistic tendancies promote critical thinking, in causing people to pay attention to the controversy and hopefully to reason through what is being said. Non-critical thinkers (liberal cult members and those disinterested) apriori dismiss his words. Everybody else has the chance to apply reason and draw conclusions for themselves.

Ultimately, I think Rush will be proven correct, that there is a bedrock of Americanism in states red and blue that loves the country and its founding principles, and does not want to see them fundamentally and perpetually changed, and if they do become changed will want those changes reversed. Rush Limbaugh recognizes that in order to counter the radicalism of Barak Obama, a new political movement consisting of existing conservatives and yet to be converted conservatives is needed.

The Republican Party as currently configured, has shown itself (between 2001 to 2006) uncommitted to the concepts of small government and individual liberty. It is the entity in need of fundamental change.

exdeadhead on March 8, 2009 at 2:06 PM

Darleen on March 8, 2009 at 2:05 PM

Good to see you’re looking at this rationally. Looking forward to your next rape comparison.

MadisonConservative on March 8, 2009 at 2:07 PM

Darleen on March 8, 2009 at 2:00 PM

Exactly right Darleen… The Pussification of America was invented and launched by some Liberal think tank at least a decade ago, and today we have engaged in a conversation that must continue.

Example: In or around 1985, I employed about a dozen men in my construction plumbing company. We shucked and jived, teased each other, listened to rock-n-roll, and kicked some butt while having fun doing what we do. By 1995, I couldn’t say 1/2 of the the shuck-n-jive stuff I said to my crew back in 1985 due to the threat of being sued for “damaging one’s feelings, or harming one’s emotions.” Fact of life here folks, I did get sued for telling an employee he was acting like a pussy. Construction was once a “real man’s world” folks, now political correctness has turned this world into a place where nobody dare say a word to a fellow workman for fear of getting fired or getting sued.

Is this worthy of discussion; better be and about time!

Keemo on March 8, 2009 at 2:10 PM

When the Left lies about what you say, CALL ‘em on it. Don’t debate, don’t apologize, don’t accomodate…

The only way to win is not to play – Darleen

“Wargames”, Darlene! But some people are just much more easily sucker-baited into non sequitur arguments; I wonder how many “Have you stopped beating your wife yet?” debates Patterico and AP have lost.

whatcat on March 8, 2009 at 2:10 PM

When I choose leaders and spokesmen for my party and my political movement, I want…pettiness.
—Patterico

See?

SondraK on March 8, 2009 at 2:05 PM

Hello Headmistress. I had no idea you were registered here? Sweet.

carbon_footprint on March 8, 2009 at 2:11 PM

The only way to win is not to play

And that only works if you have some modicum of power or leverage.

strangelet on March 8, 2009 at 2:11 PM

Should have been 1-1/2 months, weeks is even too short a time for the Messiah.

To all the Rush bashers, second guessers and arm chair quarterbacks: if your so good at his job and putting words in his mouth hows come your not makin a gazillion dollars doin it yourself?

Plenty of room out there and plenty of liberals to make fun of.

dhunter on March 8, 2009 at 2:11 PM

And Goldstein is saying that that’s an impossible standard that enables stupidity and empowers the left.

Continuing crap like this enables the endless gaffe reel of gotchas that make up our political discourse.

The only way to win is to not play.

TheUnrepentantGeek on March 8, 2009 at 2:06 PM

Unless you can get the majority of the voting populace to start browsing right-wing websites, and avoid the big 3 networks and CNN and MSNBC and most every newspaper in the country…or get enthusiastic about news and making sure the tidbits they hear around the office water cooler or at lunch are accurate…then your point doesn’t hold water. They don’t. You’re working from within a community of political junkies. We make up a very small percentage of the population. The majority of Americans are going to work on the quick bits they pick up, primarily through word of mouth.

MadisonConservative on March 8, 2009 at 2:11 PM

MadisonConservative on March 8, 2009 at 2:02 PM

I believe that Rush wanted to deliberately invoke ‘blowback’ to get the GOP off their duff, to promote the conservative agenda and to expose Obama for who he is.

This is exactly what has happened. More Republicans are starting to talk and act like conservatives all of a sudden, Rush’s listening audience has doubled since his CPAC speech, and ironically the Messiah’s disapproval number (Rasmussen) is rising and now sits at 43%.

technopeasant on March 8, 2009 at 2:11 PM

If we are going to have a guest contributor then why can’t it be Treacher.

carbon_footprint on March 8, 2009 at 2:02 PM

CF, You may have missed Allah’s explaination why Patterico posted here. He was given Posting Privileges at HA long ago by Michelle, but rarely uses the privilege. “guest contributor” may be a poor choice of words—-OOPS, THERE WE GO AGAIN…… :)

Rovin on March 8, 2009 at 2:12 PM

Darleen and Unrepentant Geek…you two v. Allah and Patterico–exceedingly compelling. Kudos to the two victors.

RepubChica on March 8, 2009 at 2:12 PM

Good to see you’re looking at this rationally. Looking forward to your next rape comparison.

MadisonConservative on March 8, 2009 at 2:07 PM

Did your brain turn off once you read the word rape?

The point is that to hold a actor responsible for all possible interpretations of the action is ridiculous, particularly when the those observing said actions are hostile to the actor.

TheUnrepentantGeek on March 8, 2009 at 2:12 PM

The more the merrier. Welcome aboard, Patterico.

technopeasant on March 8, 2009 at 2:13 PM

CF, You may have missed Allah’s explaination why Patterico posted here. He was given Posting Privileges at HA long ago by Michelle, but rarely uses the privilege. “guest contributor” may be a poor choice of words—-OOPS, THERE WE GO AGAIN…… :)

Rovin on March 8, 2009 at 2:12 PM

Yes, I missed that. Thanks for the information.

carbon_footprint on March 8, 2009 at 2:13 PM

Madison

Oh, did I hurt your feelings. So bad. But that’s a nice dodge of my closing point.

You’re telling Republicans and conservatives to BE NICE (wear that long skirt) so as not to invite attacks from the Left. How is that NOT conceding Language to them?

Darleen on March 8, 2009 at 2:14 PM

My point is this; I don’t believe we are engaged in a simple street fight here, I believe Obama, Pelsoi, and the gang of radicals that have the chains of power, are dead serious about their agenda and will use every means of power at their disposal to obtain their objective. This is a WAR to them. Political Correctness is not a weapon that will assist us with our attempts to defend liberty and freedom.

[Keemo on March 8, 2009 at 1:45 PM]

Spot on, Keemo.

Dusty on March 8, 2009 at 2:15 PM

I think conservatives as a whole need to start identifying their ideology not by particular issues, but first by basic concepts on how government should operate. We get easily swept away in social arguments, and even economic approaches. However, it all comes down to smaller government. That trumps everything on this side of the fence. It implies independence, self-reliance, and people taking responsibility for their problems rather than the government dealing with them. Damn near all issues, social or fiscal, can usually be disseminated based solely on this approach.

MadisonConservative on March 8, 2009 at 1:52 PM

.
I’ll go you one better, and this addresses the intransigent view that all liberals are deranged. Some liberals are unpleasant ideologues who have an agenda of “get all the power you can as quickly as possible and THEN form some philosophy as to how to use that power to rule the world”. There’s nothing you can do for those freaks of nature. But there is a larger, more rational group that feel they are “doing good for others and the planet”. It’s that group we need to reach.
.
They are detached from the process of actual human interaction – or at least the hard parts of what it means to be charitable and responsible. We are dealing with a generation that learned theory but no practical application.
.
They believe that paying more taxes to the government means the government will take that money and do the decision making for the larger population in genuine need. While some deserving people are served it is no substitute for volunteering your own time, and assessing the needs of your own community.
.
The government is a necessary evil. It is not your friend — unless you consider a rabid junkyard dog your friend. the government has an agenda like any other living entity to gain relevance and power and to keep it and gain more by any means necessary.
.
We need to make them understand that by ceding their rights and power to the government in the hope that government will do the right thing they are not helping their fellow man and the planet, they are destroying what makes this a great country – awesome, hardworking, free thinking individuals.
.
Most liberals are not deranged, they just don’t understand the full scope of what their well intended actions are doing to this country. They need to learn about unintended consequences before it’s too late to unscrew this debacle unfolding in front of us.

BrideOfRove on March 8, 2009 at 2:16 PM

It’s kind that some of you think Jeff ought to be given space to vent his view in this forum, but I don’t think he really wants anyone making that kind of demand on his part, given what he thinks about Teh Fairness Doctrine.

Dan Collins on March 8, 2009 at 2:17 PM

I believe that Rush wanted to deliberately invoke ‘blowback’ to get the GOP off their duff, to promote the conservative agenda and to expose Obama for who he is.

This is exactly what has happened. More Republicans are starting to talk and act like conservatives all of a sudden, Rush’s listening audience has doubled since his CPAC speech, and ironically the Messiah’s disapproval number (Rasmussen) is rising and now sits at 43%.

technopeasant on March 8, 2009 at 2:11 PM

Let’s hope it continues. At the moment, however, the words on many people’s lips are “I hope Obama fails”. Those words would not be on people’s lips if they had been “I hope Obama’s socialism fails”. All we can hope (and easily so, I think) is that those words have long since faded into memory by November 2010.

MadisonConservative on March 8, 2009 at 2:17 PM

Patterico, liberals are deranged. It is what it is.

technopeasant on March 8, 2009 at 2:18 PM

Unless you can get the majority of the voting populace to start browsing right-wing websites, and avoid the big 3 networks and CNN and MSNBC and most every newspaper in the country…or get enthusiastic about news and making sure the tidbits they hear around the office water cooler or at lunch are accurate…then your point doesn’t hold water. They don’t. You’re working from within a community of political junkies. We make up a very small percentage of the population. The majority of Americans are going to work on the quick bits they pick up, primarily through word of mouth.

MadisonConservative on March 8, 2009 at 2:11 PM

Well said MC, One of the biggest mistakes last week that got “more futile reporting” was the Dems that are taking on Obama on much of his spending policies. We hardly hear the MSM make a tiny bleep and it’s gone.

Rovin on March 8, 2009 at 2:19 PM

Unless you can get the majority of the voting populace to start browsing right-wing websites, and avoid the big 3 networks and CNN and MSNBC and most every newspaper in the country…or get enthusiastic about news and making sure the tidbits they hear around the office water cooler or at lunch are accurate…then your point doesn’t hold water. They don’t. You’re working from within a community of political junkies. We make up a very small percentage of the population. The majority of Americans are going to work on the quick bits they pick up, primarily through word of mouth.

MadisonConservative on March 8, 2009 at 2:11 PM

If what you’ve got to say is correct than we’re utterly doomed because the media controls the soundbites and will inevitably find some regardless of context.

Whether Rush makes it harder or easier for them to do so means next to nothing.

Except that it clearly doesn’t work that way. And it won’t so long as people actively fight it. Remember that it’s indeed possible for Republicans to go on the news and fight these tactics. When we make the “Steele mistake” and accept the crappy premises of their questions and comments we give the game away. It’s foolishness.

Americans are not sheeple in need of proper manipulation and handling. That’s a leftist belief.

TheUnrepentantGeek on March 8, 2009 at 2:20 PM

BrideOfRove on March 8, 2009 at 2:16 PM

Well said. This should especially apply to some of the deranged on our side who, in all seriousness, disregard morons like Olbermann as “not human”. ODS has taken hold, and it won’t help defeat him any more than BDS defeated Bush in 2004.

MadisonConservative on March 8, 2009 at 2:20 PM

MadisonConservative on March 8, 2009 at 2:07 PM

I like you and admire much of what you write. I believe that all people are different in many ways, and these differences make life interesting. I believe in having role models such as John Wayne on one end of the spectrum and Sidney Poitier on the other. Let people be drawn to whomever attracts their attention. Having lawyers, judges, and politicians decide who and what is allowable in one’s character, in our society, is nothing other than a silencing of one’s expression, as expression is not threatening. People should have the freedom to make choices rather than allow government to decide more and more what is allowable in the forum of expressions. Lawyers, Judges, & Politicians all have one thing common; pay days for their industry.

Keemo on March 8, 2009 at 2:21 PM

You’re telling Republicans and conservatives to BE NICE (wear that long skirt) so as not to invite attacks from the Left. How is that NOT conceding Language to them?

Darleen

Another good point. But you have keep in mind that a great many conservatives, probably the majority, speak against the “Fairness Doctrine”. While that’s not as bad as AP, Patterico and others getting pulled around by the nose at will by Rahm and his little anti-Rush WH “cabinet”, it also displays there’s a whole lot of educating to do on the problem of ceding language and framing.

whatcat on March 8, 2009 at 2:21 PM

think Jeff ought to be given space to vent his view

Huh?
Not vent…. but articulate and defend his approach to problemsolving in this particular case.

strangelet on March 8, 2009 at 2:22 PM

Madison

You want to see how it’s done… the “not ceding the framing of the narrative to your opponent”?

Try this.

Even if Conservatives follow the Left’s demand that “we are NOT to be OFFENDED” it will not work. Because the Left wants us SILENCED.

Capiche?

Darleen on March 8, 2009 at 2:22 PM

Anyone who listens to Rush knew exactly what Rush was saying when he said “He hoped Obama would fail”
Rush talks policy from a conservative point of view offering supporting non bias publications not unlike the Drudge Report offers other peoples stories not found in the main stream media or in the supposed “Paper of Record. Salon or Media Matters does the same thing as Rush or Drudge by offering stories, stories often void of fact no one can verify and filled with opinion they love to label face.
David Frum should start his own party and stop calling himself a conservative or republican or moderate. If he was as bright as he thinks he is he should have been president long ago. He should have been the party leader leading the way. But no, he’s just a CNN pundit.
No one follows him because he’s a simple looser. All the mouth’s screaming at Rush are simple & probably with lots of skeletons in the closet. Rush is a leader like it or not.

MALICIOUS DISORDER on March 8, 2009 at 2:23 PM

Whether Rush makes it harder or easier for them to do so means next to nothing.

Yes, it will. The media was already painting him as the head of the GOP. That didn’t matter until those words left his microphone. Avoiding malleable soundbites forces the media to endlessly paint him as an extremist merely by hyperbole.

Except that it clearly doesn’t work that way. And it won’t so long as people actively fight it. Remember that it’s indeed possible for Republicans to go on the news and fight these tactics. When we make the “Steele mistake” and accept the crappy premises of their questions and comments we give the game away. It’s foolishness.

I agree, and Steele needs to go. However, Rush is not part of the mainstream media. Nobody would be too worried about this “want Obama to fail” claptrap if he was the one going on numerous CNN appearances. Rush isn’t. Instead, Steele had to decide how to address the situation, and pussied out. If you can manage to get Rush regularly appearing on television to clarify his positions, I won’t care what he says. However, his clarification is limited to his listening audience, which still isn’t anywhere near a majority of the voting public.

Americans are not sheeple in need of proper manipulation and handling. That’s a leftist belief.

TheUnrepentantGeek on March 8, 2009 at 2:20 PM

Americans are not all responsible news-watchers. They are a soundbite generation, due to the technology of the day. They’re engrossed in television and the internet. Tell me, How does the O’Reilly Factor compare to American Idol in ratings? That’s not leftist, that’s dealing with the fact that most Americans don’t want to worry about the news. Most of them have one or two issues they care about, and the rest don’t appeal to them unless a demagogue on one side or the other catches their attention. Unfortunately, television has many more liberal demagogues than conservative ones.

MadisonConservative on March 8, 2009 at 2:28 PM

whatcat

Did I miss something? Who is arguing Fairness Doctrine here?

AP is under no obligation, and neither is Pat, to host any opposing views on their sites. Indeed, they don’t even have to suffer challenging views in the threads — a SOP on lefty blogs.

If you clicked this link I posted earlier, you’ll see I advocate breaking the cycle that non-leftists cannot win when dealing with the Left who is not acting in good faith.

Darleen on March 8, 2009 at 2:28 PM

David Frum should start his own party and stop calling himself a conservative or republican or moderate. – MALICIOUS DISORDER

What? And give up maverick-style media darling status?

whatcat on March 8, 2009 at 2:30 PM

But you can be forceful and clear all at the same time. For example, Rush could have said: “It doesn’t matter what I hope for. I know he’ll fail.”

Rush claims he is clairvoyant! He’s on that “I’m God with talent” trip that he’s always on about. OUTRAGE!

/liberal.

I agree with most of your points Patterico, but please: Liberals actively seek to find something offensive. A conservative can say the sky is blue and they will try and find some way to make it sound racist against blue people.

They are deranged. It requires intellectual dishonesty to be a liberal. Name me one, even one liberal of any note who ever gives Rush Limbaugh the benefit of the doubt.

BKennedy on March 8, 2009 at 2:30 PM

Even if Conservatives follow the Left’s demand that “we are NOT to be OFFENDED” it will not work.

Darleen on March 8, 2009 at 2:22 PM

It’s not about not offending the left. It’s about not giving the left soundbites that they can use to offend the majority of voters.

Capiche?

MadisonConservative on March 8, 2009 at 2:30 PM

Somehow, I don’t think Rush will stay up late at night pondering your lessons on communication. What’s your name again?

SKYFOX on March 8, 2009 at 2:32 PM

Darleen on March 8, 2009 at 2:22 PM

TRY THIS

Darleen, you made my day!!!! Thankyou so much for the smackdown on one of my most despised liberals. If I could put my head thru the monitor, I’d kiss you!

Rovin on March 8, 2009 at 2:33 PM

Well said. This should especially apply to some of the deranged on our side who, in all seriousness, disregard morons like Olbermann as “not human”. ODS has taken hold, and it won’t help defeat him any more than BDS defeated Bush in 2004.

MadisonConservative on March 8, 2009 at 2:20 PM

.
Oh. I totally agree. This fear some Republicans seem to have of an open and honest clearing of the air because “what will the other side think” just has to go. We NEED to talk it out and get down to the core of what works. I’ll listen to any rational argument that’s been thought through and gamed to the various outcomes. We aren’t going to reach anyone if all we care about is not providing fodder for the nut cases on either side.
.
The majority of Americans are hard working people who would give their neighbors the shirt off their backs. Right now, we need to reach the people who seem to believe it’s ok to take the shirts off of everyone’s backs. We need to show them a better, more sustainable way. We need to take the ball back from extremists on all sides.

BrideOfRove on March 8, 2009 at 2:33 PM

Yes, it will. The media was already painting him as the head of the GOP. That didn’t matter until those words left his microphone. Avoiding malleable soundbites forces the media to endlessly paint him as an extremist merely by hyperbole.

You know better than this. Practically any soundbite can be malleable with sufficient editing. Again, if soundbites are what kills conservatism, we’re already dead.

If you can manage to get Rush regularly appearing on television to clarify his positions, I won’t care what he says. However, his clarification is limited to his listening audience, which still isn’t anywhere near a majority of the voting public.

As opposed to broadcasting them for 3 hours a day weekdays to like 20 million viewers? How much more mainstream can the guy get? If all you’re concerned about is how widely publicized his clarifications are I’d say that’s being addressed quite handily.

That’s not leftist, that’s dealing with the fact that most Americans don’t want to worry about the news. Most of them have one or two issues they care about, and the rest don’t appeal to them unless a demagogue on one side or the other catches their attention. Unfortunately, television has many more liberal demagogues than conservative ones.

If they’re really that dumb all of the time, conservatism is already boned anyway. We’re not the party of giveaways and safety nets, which doesn’t play well in soundbites.

The premise of your argument requires that I concede that the battle is already lost – and I will not.

TheUnrepentantGeek on March 8, 2009 at 2:35 PM


I’ll give one last comment: Kokonut, the policies you describe are deranged. That doesn’t mean all liberals are deranged, and it’s silly to say they are. Focus on the policies; we’ll do better with the voters that way.

Thanks, all.

Patterico on March 8, 2009 at 1:47 PM

Patterico, I believe that is the context that Rush and many others have been saying all along when they used the word “deranged.” All of the House and Senate members voted for the spending pork bill. Does that make them liberals “deranged” in what they’ve just done? Again, Rush said “Liberals” and not “Democrats”. How many Democrats in both the House and Senate are having buyer’s remorse right now realizing the big doo-doo they just helped create? Are any of them speaking up? At least we are seeing reasonable Democrats (as opposed to Liberals) realizing the folly and mistake of voting for Obama (e.g. Crammer from Mad Money).

Kokonut on March 8, 2009 at 2:38 PM

The premise of your argument requires that I concede that the battle is already lost – and I will not.

TheUnrepentantGeek on March 8, 2009 at 2:35 PM

Wrong. The premise of my argument requires that you concede that the weapons and battlefield are constantly changing, and that we need to keep up with the latest tactics in order to fight properly.

MadisonConservative on March 8, 2009 at 2:38 PM

Rovin on March 8, 2009 at 2:33 PM

Agree…. That was worth it’s weight in gold!

With that, I must get to work and get something accomplished in this house today. Snowing like crazy here this morning, so the outside work is out of the question.

I have enjoyed this conversation this morning. I hope we have many more of them. Nice to have AP & Patterico engaged in the conversation. Hope to have many more of those also.

Good day to all, enjoy your Sunday!

Keemo on March 8, 2009 at 2:38 PM

The road to dhimmitude begins the moment one says “I ain’t got no dog in this fight.”

coldwarrior on March 8, 2009 at 2:39 PM

Correction:

All of the Democrats House and Senate members voted for the spending pork bill.

Kokonut on March 8, 2009 at 2:39 PM

Nice thread.

Good popcon.

When the RW keeps fighting on this issue, would you agree that Rahm played this one well?

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 2:40 PM

It’s not about not offending the left. It’s about not giving the left soundbites that they can use to offend the majority of voters.

Capiche?

MadisonConservative on March 8, 2009 at 2:30 PM

That’s a difference without distinction. The Left will parse or create an interpretation … they then react to that interpretation as “I am SO offended!” and it is the offense that gets aired. It is the offense that gets play-along-conservatives to engage in the “astonishment, argument, apology, accomodation” cycle.

It.is.a.game. Stop playing it.

Darleen on March 8, 2009 at 2:41 PM

When the RW keeps fighting on this issue, would you agree that Rahm played this one well?

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 2:40 PM

The opening volley from the Rahm Administration was well targetted, I’ll admit.

But, in a manner similar to the attack on Pearl Harbor…it will fail in the long run.

coldwarrior on March 8, 2009 at 2:41 PM

Rush was right when he said last week.There are a few loonies and so called wizards of smart on this site.He did not call any names.He did not have to.

thmcbb on March 8, 2009 at 2:42 PM

When the RW keeps fighting on this issue, would you agree that Rahm played this one well?

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 2:40 PM

You are worried about Rahm playing gotcha while our dear President suffers in mental distress? What kind of person are you really? Pray for his recovery.

genso on March 8, 2009 at 2:42 PM

coldwarrior on March 8, 2009 at 2:41 PM

I think he has stopped talking about it and will just let it play out.

Is Rahm a magnificent genius?

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 2:43 PM

whatcat

Did I miss something? Who is arguing Fairness Doctrine here?

LOL, I was underscoring your excellent point about ceding the language and terminology in debating, Darlene. The acceptance/use of the term “Fairness Doctrine” itself by conservatives illustrates how pervasive the problem is! i.e., we agree.

Here we see AP, Patterico and others adopting the language and concepts of Rahm-Obama as reality, instead of questioning them (much less refuting them!). Sad sight to see conservatives get suckered in so easily and so often.

whatcat on March 8, 2009 at 2:43 PM

When the RW keeps fighting on this issue, would you agree that Rahm played this one well?

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 2:40 PM

No because we arent ignoring how obama’s deranged policies are flushing the economy down the toilet.

Elric66 on March 8, 2009 at 2:44 PM

The smoking, the ego, drugs… I thought the article was about Obama

llano on March 8, 2009 at 2:44 PM

genso on March 8, 2009 at 2:42 PM

I pray for the recovery of my country everyday.

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 2:44 PM

It.is.a.game. Stop playing it.

Darleen on March 8, 2009 at 2:41 PM

It is a part of the game of politics in the 21st century. Either get used to it, magically make the majority of people stop depending on television for their opinions, or give up.

MadisonConservative on March 8, 2009 at 2:44 PM

Sorry I had to leave the debate for a while (Ms. conservnut made me go shopping with her) it looks like I missed out on some lively fun. One other thought or two before I bow out and get some honey-dos taken care of today.

Pat and AP, I hope you both understand that I admire you both a great deal and appreciate your work. But as always I reserve the right to disagree from time to time. I beleive you both are of the opinion that we have to make our tent more attractive to independents and moderates in order to win elections. I beleive (and always have) that if we stay true to our principles and the republic folks will like the message and come to our tent anyway. That has always been a winner for us in the past and is especially true during hard times.

I beleve that Rush is one of many voices (although his is arguably the loudest) that espouse those principles and because of that he becomes a target. Not only of the left but also from some “big tent republicans”.

The Obama administration is going after him for one reason only and that is to take the spotlight off of them and their recent bumbles and leftest agenda. Bill Clinton tried the same thing early in his administration and it cost him dearly. It will cost Obama too as long as we support the message.

Good day all!

conservnut on March 8, 2009 at 2:45 PM

Is Rahm a magnificent genius?

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 2:43 PM

No.

coldwarrior on March 8, 2009 at 2:45 PM

Is Rahm a magnificent genius?

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 2:43 PM

No, but I hear he looks adorable in a tutu.

carbon_footprint on March 8, 2009 at 2:45 PM

If the issue was really simply concern for the effects Rush’s words (or style) has on the Republican party, then the logical thing to do — particularly in the face of the well-orchestrated White House attack on Rush — would be to approach Rush privately, thereby avoiding any collateral damage to the conservative movement that might occur by seemingly agreeing with the opposition.

The fact that so many pundits have chosen to take Rush to task publicly, coupled with the observation that most of if not all of these pundits are much less popular than Rush, suggests to me that this is more about trying to draft off of his success than it about speaking out for the good of the Party.

Good luck with that.

Y-not on March 8, 2009 at 2:45 PM

When the RW keeps fighting on this issue, would you agree that Rahm played this one well?

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 2:40 PM

This fight’s been in progress since your incompetent messiah crawled his way to the top of the Democrat ticket. The only thing Rahm and Obama have done well is out themselves as extreme leftist ideologues without the administrative skills or diplomatic savvy to handle the most basic of traditional receptions.

But please, enjoy the popcorn, troll.

TheUnrepentantGeek on March 8, 2009 at 2:46 PM

When the RW keeps fighting on this issue, would you agree that Rahm played this one well?

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 2:40 PM

Not really. Three months from now, Obama’s approval will be hovering under 40%, and nobody will remember Rush’s hopes. Rahm is playing for quick, easy hit jobs to take the attention off the miserable record Obama is racking up.

MadisonConservative on March 8, 2009 at 2:47 PM

TheUnrepentantGeek on March 8, 2009 at 2:46 PM

Popcon not popcorn.

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 2:48 PM

Is Rahm a magnificent genius?

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 2:43 PM

No, and it’s magnificent bastard, you witless dip.

MadisonConservative on March 8, 2009 at 2:48 PM

Wrong. The premise of my argument requires that you concede that the weapons and battlefield are constantly changing, and that we need to keep up with the latest tactics in order to fight properly.

MadisonConservative on March 8, 2009 at 2:38 PM

If that’s a point you’ve been trying to make, I havn’t seen you do it in this thread.

Regardless, if the solution to our soundbite problem is to carefully police everything we say, we’re doomed – hostile media with access to editing equipment, etc.

And I don’t think we’re doomed.

TheUnrepentantGeek on March 8, 2009 at 2:49 PM

MadisonConservative on March 8, 2009 at 2:48 PM

Thought I would change it up and liven up this thread.

Now, back to your civil war.

I yield this thread.

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 2:49 PM

Wow. Just listened to Mark Levin to deconstruct David Frum.

Frum called into Levin’s show and the fireworks went off….

moxie_neanderthal on March 8, 2009 at 2:50 PM

Rush is not the leader of the conservative movement or of the GOP. There is no leader of either. Did the democrats/liberals have a leader in 2005? No! Was the question about who the leader was a major topic of conversation? No. So why is it now? Because Obama wants it to be and because if they can make it certain people they can fortify their position, which should be weakening due to their disasterous policies.

Conservatives who attack Rush are doing Obama’s bidding not because an attack on Rush is an attack on conservativism, but because Obama wants the discussion to be about Rush. Thus, all of these tools attacking Rush make Rush the issue and damage the conservative cause. Those who cannot see this are true idiots and should be in no position of prominence in the conservative movement or the GOP.

besser tot als rot on March 8, 2009 at 2:51 PM

The only way to win is not to play

One last time, Darleen.
You can’t take your ball and go home when you don’t have a ball.

strangelet on March 8, 2009 at 2:54 PM

I yield this thread.

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 2:49 PM


Aww, is da widdle twoll tired like his epic failure of a President?

And civil war? Hardly. It’s a disagreement over strategy and tactics, not goals. Madison makes some good points and has made many excellent points over the past … rather long period of time, actually. But if it gives you comfort to view heated discussion as Civil War! – well, we’ve never managed to dissuade you of comforting delusions in the past, so I can’t imagine why we’d start now.

TheUnrepentantGeek on March 8, 2009 at 2:54 PM

Wrong. The premise of my argument requires that you concede that the weapons and battlefield are constantly changing, and that we need to keep up with the latest tactics in order to fight properly.

MadisonConservative on March 8, 2009 at 2:38 PM

I haven’t seen you make that argument. I’ve seen you make that argument that because the American voters are disengaged, we have to play the Left’s game.

I gave you a concrete example – Milton Freedman NOT conceding the language to Phil Donahue – of how non-leftists can act.

Darleen on March 8, 2009 at 2:55 PM

Wrong. The premise of my argument requires that you concede that the weapons and battlefield are constantly changing, and that we need to keep up with the latest tactics in order to fight properly.

MadisonConservative on March 8, 2009 at 2:38 PM

There’s the problem, you’re thinking tactics, not strategery. Is it tactically smart to cede the point to the left like Patterico here? I think one could argue that. The problem here is that tactics don’t win wars, strategery does, and this tactical win will ultimately push us toward a strategic loss.

doubleplusundead on March 8, 2009 at 2:55 PM

By keeping this continuing debate alive about one sentence, you are doing the democrats’ work for them. Obama’s purpose in singling out Rush early on was twofold; “divide and conquer” being the first purpose, and distraction being the second.

Whether or not Rush’s “hope he fails” played into Obama and Emmanuel’s hands is debatable. Some have said that we should be mindful of what the uninformed “sound-bite voter” will glean from all of this. Perhaps this continuing debate will get some people past the sound bites and educate them about what was actually said and the meaning thereof. Maybe.

But now we are to the point of “he should have said” or “he could have said”. Many of these debates are founded on an assumption that the purported meaning of Rush’s out of context quote is exactly what the Dems and their media minions say it is, and in my opinion that is giving too much ground too easily.

Should we not try to explain why it is imperative that Obama fails in his attempt to permanently socialize a large portion of our economy? The first step toward doing this is getting the attention of those whose minds we might be able to change. I think it is obvious that Rush’s actual meaning has found its way onto even the most liberal of media outlets in one way or another for anyone curious enough or open-minded enough to attempt to learn anything outside the bounds of their preconceived political notions.

This has gone on long enough, though. Talk about kicking a dead horse!

Rush is not the RNC chairman or a candidate for high office. He is a commentator and entertainer, and a very good one.

hillbillyjim on March 8, 2009 at 2:56 PM

Three months from now, Obama’s approval will be hovering under 40%, and nobody will remember Rush’s hopes. – MadisonConservative

I agree, but I hope in the meantime a few alleged conservative bloggers get a clue and learn not to be so easily suckerbaited into Michael Steele territory by Obama and his crew.

whatcat on March 8, 2009 at 2:57 PM

Please excuse the obvious inconsistencies in the above post. I am, after all, trying to concentrate on something truly important. NASCAR is on the tube.

hillbillyjim on March 8, 2009 at 2:59 PM

[TheUnrepentantGeek on March 8, 2009 at 2:46 PM]

Agreed. “All is chaos under the heavens, and the situation is good”, is backfiring on them. Obama now has to expose his plans to impoverish the people for his own benefit and those of the looters and moochers which are the core of his support. Emanuel is showing that Obama is more than willing to personally attack and defame not just factions that oppose him but individual citizens using those in the media sympathetic to his goals.

And then they can get back to not paying their own taxes, enjoying the fruits of their corruption and living high on the hog while hoping we will argue amongst ourselves in the squalor he leaves for us.

That won’t happen. Their day of reckoning is coming.

Dusty on March 8, 2009 at 3:05 PM

When Rush kept his mouth shut and played ball for the party we had the Drunken spending republican congress

do we want Rush to follow that example of failure from his own past?

karasoth on March 8, 2009 at 3:06 PM

The problem with saying “I hope he fails” is that it’s open to so many interpretations. Reasonable people hearing “I hope he fails” might think Limbaugh hopes Obama’s policies, once enacted, will fail to save the economy. You think that’s a ridiculous interpretation? You may think you know what Limbaugh meant — but no matter what you think, there are conservatives equally certain that he meant something different.

It goes well beyond whether the idiot messiah’s policies fail. I will, once again, offer my simple, direct analogy for the hard-of-thinking:

Lenin succeeded fabulously.
Lenin’s policies failed miserably.
Russia suffered through hell for decades.

progressoverpeace on March 8, 2009 at 3:07 PM

Patterico and AP do not speak for me. Rush, Sowell and Steyn, among others, represent my views best. I disagree with AP on many things. I come here because he runs a great blog, but these repeated attempts to brow beat me with the cowardly Mr. Frum, whom I despise, are growing old, fast.

I hope Obama fails.

FloatingRock on March 8, 2009 at 3:08 PM

Is it tactically smart to cede the point to the left like Patterico here? I think one could argue that. The problem here is that tactics don’t win wars, strategery does, and this tactical win will ultimately push us toward a strategic loss.

doubleplusundead on March 8, 2009 at 2:55 PM

Consider our strategy is currently being used as toilet paper by Michael Steele, tactics are a more worthwhile focus at the moment. Once more, we’re not saying Rush is wrong, e.g. ceding the point to the left. We’re stating that with an extra word or two, the exact same point could have been made without the media having an easy stigma to attach to the statement. I hope Obama fails, too. So does Pat and Allah, and we’re positive he will. However, we’re not nationally known voices of political analysis. We’re conservatives among conservatives.

If I may offer an example from my personal perspective: Despite living in Madison, my tight group of coworkers are all conservative. We talk very openly amongst ourselves and other coworkers. However, when I’m out, meeting people in Madison, the secondary liberal bastion of the nation, I try to win hearts and minds, and this involves first luring them into the discussion. You can only do this by approaching the topic from a perspective relative to them. Eventually, through asking them a lot of questions about how they live, how they feel about circumstances, I’ve gotten a good number of democratic voters to concede to the logic of conservative stances and the lack of same in liberal positions.

In essence, I talk differently to people I know are conservatives than those I know are moderate or liberal. Other conservatives will respond quickly to my ideas. Those ideas are only palatable to moderates and liberals if you can apply them to their views and situations. Some are lost causes. However, the rest will be lost causes unless you know how to reach them.

MadisonConservative on March 8, 2009 at 3:09 PM

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