David Frum Does Not Speak for Me Any More Than Rush Limbaugh Does
posted at 7:00 am on March 8, 2009 by Patterico
I recently risked being labeled one of the “oddballs” at Hot Air when I said that, while I believe Rush Limbaugh is a very talented salesman for conservative values, I think it would be counterproductive to set him up as the head of the conservative movement. As long as I’m carrying around “NOT IN MY NAME” placards, let me add another person who doesn’t speak for me: David Frum.
Frum has a NEWSWEEK piece that expands on his recent comments about Rush Limbaugh. Even as Frum purports to set forth his conservative bonafides, he undermines them:
I supported the Iraq War and (although I feel kind of silly about it in retrospect) the impeachment of Bill Clinton.
I don’t see why a conservative would feel “silly” about having supported the impeachment of a man who committed perjury and obstruction of justice, and abused the power of his office to destroy the reputations of people whom he considered a political danger. Frum makes no argument why Clinton’s impeachment was wrong. Without that argument, his comment seems like an unnecessary concession to the liberal cocktail set — a way to get the “good people” to take his argument seriously.
Frum also repeats an offensive set of comments he made on his blog earlier this week — comments that I bashed as contradictory and unnecessarily insulting:
With his private plane and his cigars, his history of drug dependency and his personal bulk, not to mention his tangled marital history, Rush is a walking stereotype of self-indulgence—exactly the image that Barack Obama most wants to affix to our philosophy and our party.
In other words, Rush Limbaugh Is a Big Fat Idiot. Well, Mr. Frum, we already have one too many Al Frankens in politics. We don’t need another. Limbaugh’s bulk and private life have bupkis to do with his arguments, and you devalue the debate if you maintain that they are in any way relevant.
Here’s where Frum almost makes a good point, except that he phrases it in a hopelessly naive way:
Notice that Limbaugh did not say: “I hope the administration’s liberal plans fail.” Or (better): “I know the administration’s liberal plans will fail.” Or (best): “I fear that this administration’s liberal plans will fail, as liberal plans usually do.” If it had been phrased that way, nobody could have used Limbaugh’s words to misrepresent conservatives as clueless, indifferent or gleeful in the face of the most painful economic crisis in a generation. But then, if it had been phrased that way, nobody would have quoted his words at all—and as Limbaugh himself said, being “headlined” was the point of the exercise. If it had been phrased that way, Limbaugh’s face would not now be adorning the covers of magazines. He phrased his hope in a way that drew maximum attention to himself, offered maximum benefit to the administration and did maximum harm to the party he claims to support.
It’s crazy to say that “nobody could have used Limbaugh’s words to misrepresent conservatives . . .” Of course they could have, and of course they would have. They always do. That’s standard operating procedure for the media and leftists (but I repeat myself).
What Frum should have said is that phrasing the statement in the ways he suggests would have made it harder to distort Limbaugh’s meaning. Not impossible — just harder.
The problem with saying “I hope he fails” is that it’s open to so many interpretations. Reasonable people hearing “I hope he fails” might think Limbaugh hopes Obama’s policies, once enacted, will fail to save the economy. You think that’s a ridiculous interpretation? You may think you know what Limbaugh meant — but no matter what you think, there are conservatives equally certain that he meant something different.
I ran a poll on my site yesterday in which I said: of course no conservative wants Obama’s policies enacted. Of course Rush wants Obama to “fail” to enact them. But, assuming Obama’s policies are enacted anyway, do you interpret Rush to be saying that he wants the policies to 1) succeed, meaning the economy improves? or 2) fail, meaning socialism fails, allowing conservative principles to re-emerge?
The responses — primarily from conservative readers with no desire to misread Limbaugh’s words — were all over the map:
“It was #1, and no doubt about it.”
“Patterico, I think it is very clear that Mr. Limbaugh means #2″
“#1 obviously.”
“Of course Limbaugh meant #2.”
If conservatives are this confused about Limbaugh’s message, then he didn’t express it clearly enough. And given the visibility of his CPAC speech, and the controversial nature of his remarks, he needed to be clear.
Some say: conservatives can’t worry about how they say things. They know their arguments will be distorted anyway, so they shouldn’t worry about being misinterpreted. I completely disagree with this argument. I say: when you know people will distort your meaning, you have to be extra careful to express yourself clearly.
Granted, there’s a tension between making your argument clear, and giving it punch. I understand and respect the view that if you word your statements in too lawyerly a fashion, with clarifications and caveats, you might sacrifice the forcefulness of your argument.
But you can be forceful and clear all at the same time. For example, Rush could have said: “It doesn’t matter what I hope for. I know he’ll fail.” That would have been just as effective and compelling — but possibly less controversial. And while the controversy generated by this uncertainty over Rush’s meaning has been good for his ratings, it’s doubtful that it has been good for conservatives.
What’s more, in his CPAC speech, he went out of his way to describe liberals as “deranged”:
I have learned how to tweak liberals everywhere. I do it instinctively now. Tweak them in the media. And no reason to be afraid of these people. Why in the world would you be afraid of the deranged?
Using the word “deranged” to describe liberals as a whole is just silly. It’s true of some of them. But not all of them. Calling liberals deranged may make you feel good, and it may make you laugh. But many of you consider Limbaugh to be the spokesman of the conservative movement — and if our spokesmen regularly say stuff like that, we’ll alienate voters. And then, we’ll get eight years of Obama and his crazy spending that is killing our children’s future.
When I choose leaders and spokesmen for my party and my political movement, I want clarity, vigor, integrity, perspective, and a lack of pettiness. In my view, David Frum — with his comments about Limbaugh’s bulk and personal life — showed pettiness. With his ambivalence about Clinton’s impeachment — not justified by any argument but made as an aside as if to curry favor with the elite — Frum lacks the integrity of a true conservative.
Rush has many of the above qualities — but when he calls liberals “deranged,” I think he lacks perspective. And when he said “I hope he fails,” I think he sacrificed clarity for controversy.
We can do better. Rush Limbaugh does not speak for me. And neither does David Frum.
UPDATE: At the same time, we can’t allow Democrats to seize the moral high ground on this. Here’s hard proof they didn’t want Bush to succeed.










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Just my thoughts..
2010 brings with it another election cycle. Obama & Pelosi could lose the house back to the GOP in 2010, as elections have consequences. These two want to shovel their agenda down our throats as quickly as possible in an all out effort to change American politics more permanently to tilt the country towards Socialism once and for all. This is why Obama is going from one issue to another with no time to reflect upon what has just happened. Now it’s on to Socialized Medicine for America, with a few of Bush’s programs destroyed in the middle while everybody is focused on the latest agenda item. No time to debate this folks, as the country won’t survive another week if we don’t take immediate measures! Like Emanuel was caught on tape saying “this economic downturn is a opportunity we can’t let pass.”
To me, these actions tell us that these people don’t care about the people at all, they only care about POWER and the price us citizens pay for their power is absolutely meaningless in their big picture. Destroy the economy and we can get a Democrat in the WH… Democrats took over power of government in 2006 folks, as Congress writes the laws. If we look backwards to 2006, we can now see how this plot unfolded. These are truly evil people who have power over all of us.
God Bless Rush and all others who are willing to talk about these things, while giving us a chance to see more clearly. Most of us are busy working and raising families. Rush is in the business of communications. Just think what little chance we (citizens) have if Democrats destroy our right to have these conversations.
Keemo on March 8, 2009 at 10:50 AM
It is amazing to me that we are still on Rush and NOT discussing conservatism.
What principles do we ALL SHARE?
Who is that is STEALING those principles from us?
As Rush said, let’s talk philosophy.
What is it that you agree with Patterico??
Tell us what you and RUSH agree with. I know you’re reading.
So jump in!
katy on March 8, 2009 at 10:50 AM
Naming Geithner as Treasury Secretary is another sign of how our President is not well. I think his mental exhaustion started during the campaign. Another sign is how he has so much trouble speaking without a teleprompter. We all know how gifted he is as a speaker and to have to now use a teleprompter is tragic. Please pray for him.
genso on March 8, 2009 at 10:51 AM
Well then he fits right in with this administration. They are rewriting the book on buffoonery.
conservnut on March 8, 2009 at 10:51 AM
You crack me up!
conservnut on March 8, 2009 at 10:54 AM
I’m curious. Is HotAir going to give Jeff Goldstein a chance at the podium soon?
Dusty on March 8, 2009 at 10:54 AM
Patterico is a good guy. Frum, I don’t care for at all. He doesn’t clarify what he says all the time. As for Rush, if some Conservatives don’t get what Rush meant. Then they are not true Conservatives in my book. Rush isn’t trying to be a Leader of the Conservative Party. He is to me a highly respected Conservative and is a voice. He is not always right. But in his Speech he was totally Right! I listen to his show, but when he gave his speech. I was in a trance and was blown away. Is no ones Business how much money he makes, or his Private Jet or his personal life. Isn’t that what Liberal’s say to us about The Man Child? Is not our business? When one is running the Country then his business is our Business. I thought Frum was a Liberal.
sheebe on March 8, 2009 at 10:56 AM
JiangxiDad started this yesterday. Its actually fun and keeps the blood pressure and the trolls down. I think it has legs. Why not question his mental health?
genso on March 8, 2009 at 10:56 AM
coldwarrior on March 8, 2009 at 10:38 AM
Brilliantly stated once again. I hope your questions (thoughts) are taken seriously.
Keemo on March 8, 2009 at 10:57 AM
I don’t think Patterico is an oddball for thinking for himself.
There is a ton of spin out there from both sides that needs to be filtered and processed to form an opinion.
But common sense and love for country is a no brainer when somebody spews they want our leader to fail in a time of crisis.
It is dead wrong. The dems best move was to attack that ignorant statement and it paid off.
getalife on March 8, 2009 at 10:57 AM
Common sense and love for country should lead us all to support our President in his time of need too. Are you praying for him, getalife? He needs your prayers for recovery as well, you know.
genso on March 8, 2009 at 11:00 AM
getalife,
Do you think obama’s marxist ideas are best for our country?
Elric66 on March 8, 2009 at 11:01 AM
Rush I know……Frum, is an idiot who I heard on Levin’s show, and Patterico is………….. hmmmm.
Rush speaks for ME!
Mercy4Me on March 8, 2009 at 11:01 AM
This isn’t a Patterico vs. Goldstein thing. This is Patterico offering his opinion on Rush and Frum. He wasn’t specially invited to post this; he’s had posting privileges here literally for years now. He simply hasn’t used them in awhile.
Allahpundit on March 8, 2009 at 11:01 AM
Seperately, Geither is scary. I watched a CSPAN panel he was in 1998 regarding the Asian crisis, and he’s a buffoon.
VinceP1974 on March 8, 2009 at 10:48 AM
Here is a good article on what Aussie’s think about Geither.
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/obamas-economic-saviour-savaged-as-keating-lets-rip-20090306-8rk7.html?page=-1
He is a buffoon indeed.
sheebe on March 8, 2009 at 11:01 AM
Also, I think dittoheads are intellectually lazy.
Nobody is right all the time.
Especially a radio entertainer.
Think for yourself, not what a radio entertainer tells you to think.
getalife on March 8, 2009 at 11:02 AM
“One of the points I’ve been making is that it’s wrong for Franken to call Limbaugh Big Fat Idiot, but it’s also wrong for Limbaugh to affix similarly hurtful names to his enemies such as The Forehead & Nostrilitis.
It’s acceptable to ridicule policies, but we should draw the line at physical appearances if we want to attract undecideds to conservatism.”-jgapinoy on March 8, 2009 at 7:27 AM
Rush is a political commentator first, and an entertainer second. The corny names he picks for various characters in this play may not be advantageous with regards to political “strategery,” but they amuse him, so be it. It’s like a verbal cartoon, instead of a drawn one.
It’s his show, and he rides the wave of financial success (I can understand liberal radio folk not being able to comprehend such a phenomenon). As he often lets us know, he says whatever he pleases.
I’m a big fan of the parody of ABBA’s “Dancing Queen” as sung by Barney Frank: “Banking Queen.”. A truly fabulous skewering.
disa on March 8, 2009 at 11:03 AM
Are you praying for the recovery of our beloved President, AP? You know he’s not well, don’t you?
genso on March 8, 2009 at 11:03 AM
You need a new CD player. It is stuck and keep repeating! I do want obama to fail with his Marxist policies!
sheebe on March 8, 2009 at 11:03 AM
I believe that someone that wants to run my life for me because they believe they are more competent than I am is deranged. This is what true Liberals believe. I think this makes them deranged.
I think there is a fine line between being hugely popular and being a self absorbed, egotistical, arrogant fool. Rush is hugely popular. Which is why I take what he says with a grain of salt.
All of the people on this blog who are looking for a “Republican Leader” get a life by being a leader in your own life instead of worrying about the leader of the Republican party. And here is a radical idea to get you started on this new journey for you. Vote. Preferably for Conservative candidates.
watson007 on March 8, 2009 at 11:05 AM
But common sense and love for country is a no brainer when somebody spews they want our leader to fail in a time of crisis.
It is dead wrong. The dems best move was to attack that ignorant statement and it paid off.
getalife on March 8, 2009 at 10:57 AM
clnurnberg on March 8, 2009 at 11:06 AM
Its good of you to recognize this about our mentally exhausted President, getalife. He can’t be right all the time and now we know why. Tell your liberal friends to stop pushing him so much. He’s just a man after all.
genso on March 8, 2009 at 11:06 AM
This thread is weird. Isn’t Patterico supposed to be a respected conservative commentator? Why is everyone attacking him all of a sudden?
Frivolous on March 8, 2009 at 11:07 AM
Patterico=beta male giving unsolicited advice to an alpha male
Bizarro No. 1 on March 8, 2009 at 11:10 AM
Frum has only written (or claims to have written) one thing that speaks for me… that axis of evil part of Bush’s speech.
Beyond that, not so much.
Rush does speak for me on a slew of issues. Not everything, of course, but a lot.
In the end, I prefer to speak for myself.
myrenovations on March 8, 2009 at 11:10 AM
I need to correct my prior post. I misread and thought that Frum had felt silly about supporting the war, but that’s not the case. He feels silly about the impeachment.
That doesn’t change my opinion of what he and those like him portend for the party.
Eirenic Rebel on March 8, 2009 at 11:10 AM
O Honest Man, here is what I think.
We are throwing a trillion dollars of economic spaghetti against the wall.
It is safe to say that some of it will stick.
Anything that sticks is very bad news for the GOP, but good news for Americans.
Our goals are no longer synchronous.
strangelet on March 8, 2009 at 11:10 AM
I myself am attacking “getalife”. As for Patterico and Frum, etc, do they have to run around piggybacking off Limbaugh and insulting him? When was the last time someone like say, MoDo wrote a blistering piece against the Olbermann types and how they are destroting liberalism?
Never, the donks are sensible enough to keep the criticism on their opponents not canibalize their allies. Frum and his ilk should keep that in mind, but then hiw wife writes for HuffPo and his bread and butter is the lefties.
clnurnberg on March 8, 2009 at 11:11 AM
This thread is weird. Isn’t Patterico supposed to be a respected conservative commentator? Why is everyone attacking him all of a sudden?
Isn’t it obvious? One does not question The Leader.
Patterico on March 8, 2009 at 11:13 AM
Frivolous on March 8, 2009 at 11:07 AM
I liked his post.
getalife on March 8, 2009 at 11:13 AM
He’s guilty of Apostasy. Disagreeing with The One is punishable in the “conservative” circles, too.
radiofreevillage on March 8, 2009 at 11:13 AM
I guess getalife doesnt want to defend obama’s policies.
Elric66 on March 8, 2009 at 11:14 AM
I was tempted to bash only Frum, because I have been and continue to be offended by his approach. But doing that felt lazy and dishonest.
Patterico on March 8, 2009 at 11:14 AM
International Herald Tribune
Oops.
Obama admits his mouthpiece failed to garner the public reception desired, that a synonym would have served the message better.
Coward
Yellow bellied chicken liver…
maverick muse on March 8, 2009 at 11:14 AM
How much time did the right talk about and demonize Michael Moore for Fahrenheit 9/11? There was a whole industry created around debunking him and labeling him a fraud in the midst of the Iraq War. I’m shocked at the lack of self-awareness on the part of the right. I joke about people thinking history began on January 20th, but maybe it’s true.
DeathToMediaHacks on March 8, 2009 at 11:15 AM
This Rush brouhaha is just an attempt by Team Obama to paint the GOP as strictly representative of those in the right-wing of the party as Obama moves his agenda towards the far left in order to create a kind of force field around the middle/centrists who fell for the Obama rhetoric and now might be starting to question his deceitfulness. By creating the image that Rush is against the success of America instead of against the socialization of America by the Obama administration, they then define those who start to question the wisdom of Obama as un-American. And as long as this stays the topic of cable, internet and print media, it doesn’t matter what the content is because they will continue to repeat the headline and as we’ve seen over the last 8 years, only the headline is applicable in the ballot box.
I don’t find it a coincidence that just as the GOP has elected their first Black RNC Chairperson, the opposition designates a challenger inside the party.
What’s more concerning to me is not the Rush issue but the fact that so many conservatives don’t seem to see how they are being gamed. Gamed even to the point of calling for Michael Steele’s resignation before he even gets his legs under him.
Sad.
Texas Gal on March 8, 2009 at 11:15 AM
Elric66 on March 8, 2009 at 11:14 AM
Lets try to stay on topic.
getalife on March 8, 2009 at 11:16 AM
I blame people like getalife and death for our President’s mental exhaustion. They expect too much and push him too hard.
genso on March 8, 2009 at 11:16 AM
I HOPE HE FAILS!!! I HOPE HE FAILS!!! I HOPE HE FAILS!!!
I will shout it from the rooftops! That is not Rush, it is me!
Oh, by the way genso, I am praying for his poor little liberal mind.
conservnut on March 8, 2009 at 11:16 AM
oooh, seems to me we may have dislodged a tender nerve here.
katy on March 8, 2009 at 11:16 AM
Patterico on March 8, 2009 at 11:14 AM
LOL. That is funny.
getalife on March 8, 2009 at 11:17 AM
We must purge the cult of personality from within the Republican party.
If they don’t exist, we must manufacture them to purge the cult of personality from within the Republican party.
It is only through purging these manufactured cults that we can regain our power. Or something.
Spirit of 1776 on March 8, 2009 at 11:17 AM
You were the one whining about people bashing obama on day one. So come on and defend obama and his policies if its not right to bash obaama.
Elric66 on March 8, 2009 at 11:18 AM
I don’t look to Rush as The Leader. Rush is a voice, but there are times he isn’t right. Most of all Rush is pretty accurate than other Talk Hosts. I like to think for myself. Rush is to big to tear down! Some times people say they listen but they don’t hear the words all the time. They hear what they feel they want to hear.
sheebe on March 8, 2009 at 11:20 AM
I don’t even have anything against Limbaugh the way Frum obviously does. I think he generally does a great job, except in those moments where he gets carried away.
I just wonder whether folks like the commenters here realize how his comments are playing with swing voters out of a job and having trouble making ends meet. I think Rush could sell those voters a conservative message; I really do. But instead, he gave a message that was too easily interpreted/twisted as potentially callous.
That’s my view, anyway. I could be wrong. Contrary to some of the comments I’ve seen here — and unlike David Frum — I don’t think I’m anyone special. Just a guy with an opinion, like y’all.
Patterico on March 8, 2009 at 11:20 AM
getalife
“Also, I think dittoheads are intellectually lazy.
Nobody is right all the time.”
Rush pretty much is right all the time. He predicts liberal behavior – he knows them and the way they operate. If you listen to Rush’s show for the recommended six weeks or whatever his challenge is, then you will understand who he is.
Obama, on the other hand – he’s a big puzzle to all the political pundits and commentators. “I didn’t know who he was,” “I thought he would be forced to govern from the center, because that’s where the bulk of Americans are.” Rush knew exactly who this guy was, Sean Hannity knew exactly who this guy was. Thanks to the Internet, people who want to know the whole story understand that they aren’t going to find it on TV or in the newspapers. Many people who don’t have access to the internet do have access to a radio.
Rush is like an island of sanity in the middle of a sea of lying or wilfully blind liberals and treacherous RINOs.
disa on March 8, 2009 at 11:20 AM
If I had to depend on their likes to defend me, I would clapse from mental exhaustion too.
Elric66 on March 8, 2009 at 11:20 AM
Ever heard, “it isn’t what you say, it’s how you say it”? Apparently not.
Sorry, it’s not that you question Rush, it’s just that you come off like an insecure self-promoter riding Rush’s coattails. Face it for your own good, you are a beta male envious of who is an alpha male to you. You’ll be happier when you do!!!
Bizarro No. 1 on March 8, 2009 at 11:20 AM
I can’t get over how stupid this is. And yet it’s repeated again and again here.
People criticized Rush for the Jindal deal just last week. He’s been criticized over the Dubai deal last year. He’s acknowledged both of these on the air. But, hey let’s ignore the facts because we’re hacks.
The sad implication is that I can’t defend AP in these threads anymore from the stupid stuff thrown at him. I like AP’s personality, but I just can’t risk being called a cultist.
Spirit of 1776 on March 8, 2009 at 11:22 AM
I don’t look to Rush as The Leader. Rush is a voice, but there are times he isn’t right.
Some do. Further up the thread there’s at least one guy upset at me for attacking “the general” as we head into battle.
Patterico on March 8, 2009 at 11:22 AM
To thine own self be true.
The snark to not question The Leader is not legitimately as applicably directed at Rush as to his audience, perhaps.
Whatever fine tuning demands that one sets upon another rebounds back to place of origin. Giving constructive criticism is based upon the premise of taking constructive criticism. Know your audience, live and learn. You are appreciated.
maverick muse on March 8, 2009 at 11:23 AM
Sorry Patterico but the lazy and dishonest thing is to attack the main conservative voices out there right now because it is easy to follow along with the left’s framing of the subject.
conservnut on March 8, 2009 at 11:23 AM
Oh, wow, Patterico responded to one of my posts. I caught the attention of someone important. I’m thrilled, and my flesh just erupted in goosebumps. Not being sarcastic, by the way.
*enthusiastically waves to Patterico, grinning happily*
Frivolous on March 8, 2009 at 11:25 AM
A realtor’s sicko dream.
maverick muse on March 8, 2009 at 11:27 AM
Naw katy, it’s just a case of raising the bar of a “structured conversation”. Although raw meat could be considered tender.
Rovin on March 8, 2009 at 11:27 AM
And I wonder how Ogabe’s policies, as evinced through the stock-market instability and abysmal unemployment rates, are playing with these same swing-voters.
RepubChica on March 8, 2009 at 11:27 AM
This is a really depressing thread. It’s just so “decadent”.
Instead of worrying about how to solve our problems, we are squawking about who gets to sit in the big chair.
Frumm is irrelevant as is Patterico.
Either we have core principles or we don’t. Obama has core principles, he’s a statist globalist socialist. Probably only about 20% of American RESIDENTS want that.
It’s too bad we can’t clearly articulate an alternative position that the other 80% will buy.
But we can’t do that, because it’s much more important to see who gets to sit in the big chair. That’s the behavior characteristic of a decadent, soon to be destroyed culture.
CrazyGene on March 8, 2009 at 11:28 AM
Sorry Patterico but the lazy and dishonest thing is to attack the main conservative voices out there right now because it is easy to follow along with the left’s framing of the subject.
No, it’s not particularly easy. What’s easy is telling people what they want to hear.
The way Allahpundit gets treated here for having the courage to tell the truth as he sees it is sometimes shameful.
He’s far and away the best blogger on the Internet, and the other day some doofus was offering to pay Michelle to have him fired. That guy should have been swarmed by everyone here and shamed, and in my view he should have been banned for taking the issue that far.
You think it’s “easy” to put up with that?
Patterico on March 8, 2009 at 11:28 AM
I don’t care who does or does not speak for you, cowboy. It doesn’t make your position any less dumb.
It's Vintage, Duh on March 8, 2009 at 11:28 AM
More pandering? Are you running for office?
genso on March 8, 2009 at 11:29 AM
What is exactly a “swing voter anyway”?
Elric66 on March 8, 2009 at 11:29 AM
The info and snark he provides are good, but the constant pessimism, immediately followed by playing the victim, gets old fast.
It's Vintage, Duh on March 8, 2009 at 11:30 AM
I believe it is a person that will vote across party lines. I might not be right, but that is how I see it.
sheebe on March 8, 2009 at 11:31 AM
STOP STOP STOP. This is NOT about Rush and never was and, sorry Pat, even you still are missing the point. And at this juncture I believe it is deliberate.
David Frum (and Noonan and Chris Buckley) are out in the open cocktail conservatives. They are more interested in playing nicey-nice with the new powers in town so they aren’t disinvited from the best Washington parties. So they are horrified that the hoi poloi are restless and are apt to say things in a blunt manner.
Patterico is a DDA and I know that colors your POV because in a court room you have to be precise down to every last jot and dash. But you are ignoring that when you don’t start a trial by conceding to the defense’s presentation then don’t do the same in the political arena.
Stop allowing the Left to hijack the language. Stop reacting to their cynical and deliberate misinterpretation of everything that comes from the utterances of non-leftists. Please do understand that the Left will always misinterpret and then demand denunciation of that misterpretation because they want to silence the non-left in the first place.
FOUR years ago Jeff Goldstein wrote
Does anyone remember the faux outrage over Tony Snow’s use of the term “tar baby?” Too far back for some of you? How about the recent NYPost “chimp cartoon” debacle?
Indeed, why should non-leftists be worried about “threading needles” between defending Rush and rejecting him? The only way to win that game is to stop playing it. The Left is not acting in good faith and we need realize that and act accordingly.
One cannot mount a vigorous defense of liberty if one is twisted up with worry that the people on record who want you silent and defeated might get upset at your words.
AP, your own integrity is on the line here. You’ve published Patterico, now get the linguistic side from Jeff Goldstein.
Darleen on March 8, 2009 at 11:32 AM
Voters who are swayed by emotion and what’s cool, rather than by any ideological or philosophical grounding. In short, idiots.
It's Vintage, Duh on March 8, 2009 at 11:32 AM
He and Ace are the best, yes.
Please.
AP needles his readers all the time. All the time. You should go back and read the Fred threads. 1/2 commentary, 1/2 ribbing. And I enjoyed it.
You altered the premise. It’s absorption of the left’s language that is being rejected here. It’s why Steele got so much heat himself for the Germany remark as well.
Spirit of 1776 on March 8, 2009 at 11:32 AM
When did conservatives turn into the right wing equivalent of PC-whiners? The thing that bugs you (and everyone) about people who are overly PC is that there’s no room for even mild criticism that may be considered racist/sexist. We all know the lack of two parent households is a problem in black communities but people like Bill Cosby are yelled at for pointing that out. And, practically, there may be things wrong with the way Rush Limbaugh markets himself first at the expense of the GOP’s ability to appeal to moderate (uninformed voters). But when that’s pointed out the Rush Acolytes reach for the pitchforks and suggest even a slight chiding of Limbaugh = “attacking conservatism” Just the way morons say Bill Cosby wants to “turn back the clock on the Civil RIghts Movement.” It’s good to know high strung hyperbole and overreaction are not the exclusive province of liberals.
DeathToMediaHacks on March 8, 2009 at 11:33 AM
I agree. He’s a good blogger/entertainer with style but when I want the real skinny or the real meat and potatoes..gotta give it up to Ed.
RepubChica on March 8, 2009 at 11:33 AM
Dude is funny as hell.
DeathToMediaHacks on March 8, 2009 at 11:34 AM
How does this put swing voters out of a job? Rush isn’t the Leader who was elected by a lot of blinded people that want everything given to them. Guess my coffee hasn’t worked yet. I don’t get your statement.
sheebe on March 8, 2009 at 11:35 AM
To the people who say my opinion is worthless because I don’t have Rush’s audience: Rush is indeed talented at extemporaneous speaking and building an audience. But I’m way over admiring people because they’re popular. Someone could fire back at most of you and say, what is your audience compared to Patterico or Allahpundit? But that would be a stupid thing to say.
Like everyone else, Rush should stand or fall, not on his ability to garner an audience, but on the strength of his ideas and articulations. I think these are usually very good. But when they’re less than ideal, we need to have conservatives allowed to challenge them without being treated like pariahs.
I say this, not so much because of the comments to this one thread, but because of the way I see Allahpundit treated here consistently. Yes, he’s a big boy and he can take it — but I think it would be a healthier debate if more readers gave his views a more respectful hearing. I’m here only occasionally, but he’s here for the long haul.
Patterico on March 8, 2009 at 11:35 AM
Boo! Ed toes the conservative radio talk line. With the exception of having a guy on who was pro-marijuana legalization (and props for that) there’s nothing I can learn from Ed that I can’t learn from Hannity/Limbaugh/Levin, thankfully he just does it with slightly more civility.
DeathToMediaHacks on March 8, 2009 at 11:35 AM
You know…..I am vastly encouraged about the Patterico/Goldstein debate.
The first Signs of Life from an intellectually moribund conservative movement.
;)
Two of the finest rightside bloggers in a fierce intellectual battle.
I think the Creator of Worlds should let them bring it.
How about a throw-down on Hot Air?
Let’s rumble.
strangelet on March 8, 2009 at 11:36 AM
Of course. He’s great!
So Patterico can stop the whining/victimhood that comes with the pushback from readers.
Not everyone thinks the same, as you well indicate. Some insults are over the top, but AP badgers his readers and his readers badger him. I still like him.
Spirit of 1776 on March 8, 2009 at 11:36 AM
The CPAC speech did exactly that. It gave people a conservative message.
You are in fact going after the style over the substance. That is what is driving many of the commenters batty. So what if Rush is interpreted a certain way? This is who Rush is. Are you saying that he should take more care in how he gets his message out?
Isn’t that exactly why the party is so messed up? We keep insisting on sanitizing the message? Or the messenger.
katy on March 8, 2009 at 11:36 AM
So the person would have to be pretty middle of the road in order to vote across party lines? Right?
I think thats what he meant. :-)
Elric66 on March 8, 2009 at 11:37 AM
Better way of putting it! I agree
sheebe on March 8, 2009 at 11:37 AM
Isn’t it obvious? One does not question The Leader.
Patterico on March 8, 2009 at 11:13 AM
—-
My god Patterico, with one statement you have nearly erased all the respect I have for you.
Rush is not a leader; he is a teacher, and an entertainer.
And, your feelings are hurt because we disagree with you. So, were all cultists too?
Rush can say whatever the hell he wants (he has no obligation to bend his speech, not even to TRUE conservatism, nor to pragmatism), it’s up to conservative LEADERS to fight Obama in Congress, on MTP, etc.
If Rush ever runs for office, you might have a point.
mockmook on March 8, 2009 at 11:37 AM
It’s Vintage explained it much better! :)
sheebe on March 8, 2009 at 11:38 AM
Frum’s article seemed like a bunch of nonsense. Once he went through the trouble of proving he was a conservative he lost me. Honest men never worry if they will be trusted.
I want Rush to be clear. I want Frum to go sit in a corner and color. More importantly, I want GOP leadership to have the balls to see what is happening and when they’re asked if they agree with Rush slam the person who asks them.
.
Media/Democrat approach: Take conservative’s comments. Distort them to match what you think they mean. Confront Republicans to attempt to lump them in with the growing narrative.
.
I think this entire issue is one of intentionalism vs. formalism/reader-response theory. The media and democrats are not interested in the intended meaning of what conservatives say. They are interested in whatever they can make it mean in order to twist the conservative’s statement into a strawman for the beating. While I agree with Patterico that clarity is definitely what I want in my leadership, no amount of clarity will overcome the manipulation of language against us. So by all means, stand up and say that Rush could have been more clear in what he said…but while you’re apologizing for a slight that never really happened take a second to reflect on what it will mean if we permit Democrats to continue shaping the discussion around what they perceive us to mean rather than what we actually mean.
blankminde on March 8, 2009 at 11:38 AM
It is what it is, no more, no less, so let it go, folks. Patterico has the balls to speak his mind, and discuss opinions. We’ve reached our conclusions at this point.
There’s more to life. I’m outta here.
That HotAir readers rant is a bane.
maverick muse on March 8, 2009 at 11:38 AM
Because posts here are frequently on the media (including Rush), quite frequently the readers know more on the subject then AP does. I think it would be a healthier debate if AP gave his readers views a more respectful hearing.
Spirit of 1776 on March 8, 2009 at 11:38 AM
Just announced: Limbaugh challenges Obama to compare birth certificates.
BHO Jonestown on March 8, 2009 at 11:39 AM
Very well stated! +10
sheebe on March 8, 2009 at 11:39 AM
Patterico on March 8, 2009 at 11:22 AM
I also referred to you as a “Great American, and a gifted writer.” I meant that also.
Keemo on March 8, 2009 at 11:39 AM
All of this fuss over abosutely nothing.
It’s so simple, Frum is a putz. He just writes to try and impress the other “elite” beltway journalists.
Rush is an entertainer. He is a radio personality. He is a private damn citizen. In 4 little words (3 if your name is Biden), he has managed to set the country on fire. I’m sure his ad department is in heaven right now. Allen brothers and Zycam(sp?) would also like to say thank you to everyone who is hyperventilating over this.
I just can’t believe all the debate over this, from both sides. It just shows how sad our entire political system is. It just shows how few leaders are in DC. Just a bunch of petty, cowardly politicians who are slaves to polling data, lobbyists and the love of the camera.
4 words, and he is dominating cable news, the internet, even network news – and he made the president of the United States take the bait.
reaganaut on March 8, 2009 at 11:40 AM
For example:
AP posted Rush’s CPAC speech without seeing it (I have no objection to that).
AP posted RNC convention without watching it (I have no objection to that).
Spirit of 1776 on March 8, 2009 at 11:40 AM
Patterico,
Note that Rush said “liberals” and not “Democrats” as being “deranged.”
Can anyone name one liberal that purports to have a sane and responsible policy?
Patterico? Can you name one?
Kokonut on March 8, 2009 at 11:40 AM
Knock off the drama about my “integrity,” please. As I said up above, Patterico wasn’t specially invited to post this. He’s had posting privileges here for ages. He hasn’t said a word about Jeff in this thread; it’s simply his take on Rush and Frum. If he gets into a debate with Ace tomorrow and chooses to post something related on HA, do I “owe” Ace a guest post too?
Allahpundit on March 8, 2009 at 11:40 AM
That he did. My point is someone who is truly middle of the road could never vote for an extreme leftist like obama.
Elric66 on March 8, 2009 at 11:40 AM
This is NOT about Rush and never was and, sorry Pat, even you still are missing the point. And at this juncture I believe it is deliberate.
You’re entitled to your opinion, but I just happen to have an opinion that you happen not to agree with. That doesn’t have to mean that I’m “deliberately” missing your point. I’m not doing any such thing.
Patterico on March 8, 2009 at 11:41 AM
Exactly. Have principles…tell us about them and defend them. Rush is popular because he does this. I don’t hear a message from others, just critiques and criticisms. What is your philosophy, Patterico? Just tell us what your principles are.
genso on March 8, 2009 at 11:41 AM
Nice dodge, AP.
Darleen on March 8, 2009 at 11:42 AM
I think it is playing into the hands of the left and the media to follow their framing of the argument.
Rush (as always) makes himself the target of criticism because it brings the debate to the forefront. What we should be doing with it is talking about the subject matter of his comment and what was meant. Not how the left wants to frame it in order to change the argument.
conservnut on March 8, 2009 at 11:42 AM
Effete Fop of a man. I enjoyed Levin’s take down Thursday. I don’t agree with everything Rush, but I have a real problem with people whose only way up a ladder is to yank actual achievers down by insults and gossipy BS. Frum is a dilettant.
BrideOfRove on March 8, 2009 at 11:43 AM
Which is every time he’s on TV.
radiofreevillage on March 8, 2009 at 11:43 AM
Still think Obama’s a “good man” Pat?
Credibility WRU?
TheUnrepentantGeek on March 8, 2009 at 11:45 AM
A swing voter is someone with a barbed-wire rash: they don’t know which side of the fence they want to be on.
thomasaur on March 8, 2009 at 11:45 AM
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