David Frum Does Not Speak for Me Any More Than Rush Limbaugh Does

posted at 7:00 am on March 8, 2009 by Patterico

I recently risked being labeled one of the “oddballs” at Hot Air when I said that, while I believe Rush Limbaugh is a very talented salesman for conservative values, I think it would be counterproductive to set him up as the head of the conservative movement. As long as I’m carrying around “NOT IN MY NAME” placards, let me add another person who doesn’t speak for me: David Frum.

Frum has a NEWSWEEK piece that expands on his recent comments about Rush Limbaugh. Even as Frum purports to set forth his conservative bonafides, he undermines them:

I supported the Iraq War and (although I feel kind of silly about it in retrospect) the impeachment of Bill Clinton.

I don’t see why a conservative would feel “silly” about having supported the impeachment of a man who committed perjury and obstruction of justice, and abused the power of his office to destroy the reputations of people whom he considered a political danger. Frum makes no argument why Clinton’s impeachment was wrong. Without that argument, his comment seems like an unnecessary concession to the liberal cocktail set — a way to get the “good people” to take his argument seriously.

Frum also repeats an offensive set of comments he made on his blog earlier this week — comments that I bashed as contradictory and unnecessarily insulting:

With his private plane and his cigars, his history of drug dependency and his personal bulk, not to mention his tangled marital history, Rush is a walking stereotype of self-indulgence—exactly the image that Barack Obama most wants to affix to our philosophy and our party.

In other words, Rush Limbaugh Is a Big Fat Idiot. Well, Mr. Frum, we already have one too many Al Frankens in politics. We don’t need another. Limbaugh’s bulk and private life have bupkis to do with his arguments, and you devalue the debate if you maintain that they are in any way relevant.

Here’s where Frum almost makes a good point, except that he phrases it in a hopelessly naive way:

Notice that Limbaugh did not say: “I hope the administration’s liberal plans fail.” Or (better): “I know the administration’s liberal plans will fail.” Or (best): “I fear that this administration’s liberal plans will fail, as liberal plans usually do.” If it had been phrased that way, nobody could have used Limbaugh’s words to misrepresent conservatives as clueless, indifferent or gleeful in the face of the most painful economic crisis in a generation. But then, if it had been phrased that way, nobody would have quoted his words at all—and as Limbaugh himself said, being “headlined” was the point of the exercise. If it had been phrased that way, Limbaugh’s face would not now be adorning the covers of magazines. He phrased his hope in a way that drew maximum attention to himself, offered maximum benefit to the administration and did maximum harm to the party he claims to support.

It’s crazy to say that “nobody could have used Limbaugh’s words to misrepresent conservatives . . .” Of course they could have, and of course they would have. They always do. That’s standard operating procedure for the media and leftists (but I repeat myself).

What Frum should have said is that phrasing the statement in the ways he suggests would have made it harder to distort Limbaugh’s meaning. Not impossible — just harder.

The problem with saying “I hope he fails” is that it’s open to so many interpretations. Reasonable people hearing “I hope he fails” might think Limbaugh hopes Obama’s policies, once enacted, will fail to save the economy. You think that’s a ridiculous interpretation? You may think you know what Limbaugh meant — but no matter what you think, there are conservatives equally certain that he meant something different.

I ran a poll on my site yesterday in which I said: of course no conservative wants Obama’s policies enacted. Of course Rush wants Obama to “fail” to enact them. But, assuming Obama’s policies are enacted anyway, do you interpret Rush to be saying that he wants the policies to 1) succeed, meaning the economy improves? or 2) fail, meaning socialism fails, allowing conservative principles to re-emerge?

The responses — primarily from conservative readers with no desire to misread Limbaugh’s words — were all over the map:

“It was #1, and no doubt about it.”

“Patterico, I think it is very clear that Mr. Limbaugh means #2″

“#1 obviously.”

Of course Limbaugh meant #2.”

If conservatives are this confused about Limbaugh’s message, then he didn’t express it clearly enough. And given the visibility of his CPAC speech, and the controversial nature of his remarks, he needed to be clear.

Some say: conservatives can’t worry about how they say things. They know their arguments will be distorted anyway, so they shouldn’t worry about being misinterpreted. I completely disagree with this argument. I say: when you know people will distort your meaning, you have to be extra careful to express yourself clearly.

Granted, there’s a tension between making your argument clear, and giving it punch. I understand and respect the view that if you word your statements in too lawyerly a fashion, with clarifications and caveats, you might sacrifice the forcefulness of your argument.

But you can be forceful and clear all at the same time. For example, Rush could have said: “It doesn’t matter what I hope for. I know he’ll fail.” That would have been just as effective and compelling — but possibly less controversial. And while the controversy generated by this uncertainty over Rush’s meaning has been good for his ratings, it’s doubtful that it has been good for conservatives.

What’s more, in his CPAC speech, he went out of his way to describe liberals as “deranged”:

I have learned how to tweak liberals everywhere. I do it instinctively now. Tweak them in the media. And no reason to be afraid of these people. Why in the world would you be afraid of the deranged?

Using the word “deranged” to describe liberals as a whole is just silly. It’s true of some of them. But not all of them. Calling liberals deranged may make you feel good, and it may make you laugh. But many of you consider Limbaugh to be the spokesman of the conservative movement — and if our spokesmen regularly say stuff like that, we’ll alienate voters. And then, we’ll get eight years of Obama and his crazy spending that is killing our children’s future.

When I choose leaders and spokesmen for my party and my political movement, I want clarity, vigor, integrity, perspective, and a lack of pettiness. In my view, David Frum — with his comments about Limbaugh’s bulk and personal life — showed pettiness. With his ambivalence about Clinton’s impeachment — not justified by any argument but made as an aside as if to curry favor with the elite — Frum lacks the integrity of a true conservative.

Rush has many of the above qualities — but when he calls liberals “deranged,” I think he lacks perspective. And when he said “I hope he fails,” I think he sacrificed clarity for controversy.

We can do better. Rush Limbaugh does not speak for me. And neither does David Frum.

UPDATE: At the same time, we can’t allow Democrats to seize the moral high ground on this. Here’s hard proof they didn’t want Bush to succeed.

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The fact remains that somebody had to say it. If Rush hadn’t started the discussion we would be watching our elected officials mince around their disagreements with the president. Somebody had to say that President Obama is wrong and arguing about how it was said is one of the reasons that we are in the minority.

Cindy Munford on March 8, 2009 at 10:00 AM

We’re splitting hairs as that deranged left ruins what is left of America.

Wine_N_Dine on March 8, 2009 at 10:01 AM

thphilli on March 8, 2009 at 9:57 AM

WTF are you talking about? So what if he makes money? I want him to make money. I want him to increase his reach. The more who tune in to listen, the more who will hear a conservative message. Why are you against that? Do you think because he makes money his message is flawed?

genso on March 8, 2009 at 10:02 AM

I clicked over to manlyrash’s blog. He has a link to someone looking for info on the WH becoming a party house. How come HA isn’t writing about that? Every night they seem to throw a party. It’s ridiculous. Instead, we have to read article after article on why conservatives really suck with the between the line message that Hotair readers suck the most.

Blake on March 8, 2009 at 10:03 AM

Keemo

No doubt you caught Frum’s equation from Hugh Hewitt’s show:

Limbaugh is to the Republican Party as Jesse Jackson is to the Democrats.

(Hewitt was absent that night this past week.)

maverick muse on March 8, 2009 at 10:03 AM

peacenprosperity on March 8, 2009 at 9:56 AM

Agreed, but I’m not aware of any posts made by Ed that would fit that mold…

Keemo on March 8, 2009 at 10:04 AM

Again what I find scary is that we are more obsessed with a President of the United States being upset at what a citizen says about him to the point we obsess about it for days while our country is facing a war and a major economic crisis.

This whole issue isnt about Rush’s ego its ultimately about Obama’s ego. And we on the right are enabling him to stiffle critizism.

William Amos on March 8, 2009 at 10:04 AM

I can’t stand this man.

He’s a divider and trying to divide us further. His pitiful rants against Rush are desperate attempts to piggyback any way he can on Rush’s popularity.

Why not write a column on something that would gain us fans, like the underreported dem corruption or Barry and company’s involvement in the Fannie-Freddie fiasco.

Frum and Brooks and their Pierre Trudeau wing of the party should have all attention withdrawn

clnurnberg on March 8, 2009 at 10:05 AM

Cindy Munford on March 8, 2009 at 10:00 AM

Exactly. What has Moderation gotten the Republican Party? A Democratic Majority in congress, an inexperienced Chicago Politician beating their nominee, and being regulated to the status of an also-ran. Democrat-Lite is not working. It’s time to take a stand with the Heartland. If the Republicans keep on listening to the Beltway Pundits, they will never win another National Election.

kingsjester on March 8, 2009 at 10:06 AM

Good Job Rush!

You got the Conservatives back in the spotlight.

The fire is lit.

The message is flowing.

The field has open up.

The game is just beginning!

katy on March 8, 2009 at 10:06 AM

maverick muse on March 8, 2009 at 10:03 AM

Actually Mav, since I moved to the sticks of Montana, I no longer get Hugh on the radio. I read that quote by Frum on one of the blogs I visit; could have been Townhall.

Keemo on March 8, 2009 at 10:06 AM

Frum and too many conservatives place too much emphasis on playing nice in the sand box with liberals.

Liberals and liberalism is the antithesis of all that is necessary for the health of a free nation.

Playing nice with at the very least misguided people is far too often validation of destructive ideologies.

I don’t care if the Taliban likes what I have to say and don’t give a crap for the success of a President determined to be a tyrant.

Speakup on March 8, 2009 at 10:07 AM

Cindy Munford on March 8, 2009 at 10:00 AM

Limbaugh proves this is NOT a “nation of cowards,” Mr. President. Your Attorney General can put THAT in your White House party pipe to smoke.

maverick muse on March 8, 2009 at 10:08 AM

katy on March 8, 2009 at 10:06 AM

Good to see you back here this morning Katy; fired up and ready… You fired off some good rounds yesterday!

Keemo on March 8, 2009 at 10:08 AM

Rather than offering advice to someone who does not need it( Rush), the conservative media should slap down every liberal who tries to twists anyone’s words out of context…this would save a lot of time having to worry about how you say anything…

In essence, why not stick together as a solid front when confronting liberals and their childish word games. If you want to discuss strategy, then you all should get together in secret as opposed to public debates that are used to divide the movement…

javamartini on March 8, 2009 at 10:09 AM

Hey! how was that trout???

katy on March 8, 2009 at 10:09 AM

Keemo on March 8, 2009 at 9:42 AM

What a post!

Spirit of 1776 on March 8, 2009 at 10:10 AM

Keemo on March 8, 2009 at 10:06 AM

We hear the Hewitt Show online while fixing dinner.

Savage broadcasts at that time here became intolerable.

maverick muse on March 8, 2009 at 10:10 AM

Rahm you magnificent bastard.

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 10:11 AM

Rahm you magnificent bastard.

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 10:11 AM

Obama you magnificent bastard

William Amos on March 8, 2009 at 10:12 AM

Limbaugh’s bulk and private life have bupkis to do with his arguments, and you devalue the debate if you maintain that they are in any way relevant.

Except, of course, what Patterico doesn’t get, and Frum does, is that this whole discussion isn’t about “his arguments”. This is about his attempt to be the public face of the Republican Party.

I haven’t heard Frum say once that he objects to people forming their political convictions with Rush’s help. In fact he wrote that there was little he and Rush disagreed on conceptually. However, basic philosophy doesn’t win elections. (No, Reagan didn’t win elections simply with his principles.) And Frum understands it.

As for Clinton’s impeachment, Scooter Libby anyone? A special prosecutor who failed to investigate and prosecute the actual case he was assigned to prosecute but who successfully created another crime in the process of the investigation. Indeed, what’s wrong with that?

radiofreevillage on March 8, 2009 at 10:12 AM

Some say: conservatives can’t worry about how they say things. They know their arguments will be distorted anyway, so they shouldn’t worry about being misinterpreted. I completely disagree with this argument. I say: when you know people will distort your meaning, you have to be extra careful to express yourself clearly.

This is BS. Why can’t you people see that this is clearly a successful attempt by the PC nazis to hamstring our message?

Rush was/is CRYSTAL clear in his statement and in everything he believes about our party and the conservative movement.

You CAN NOT go out there and be our voice if in the back of your teeny weak mind you have worries about stupid Lib interpretation of the pure message. Don’t allow these guys to dilute the message.

Sorry. I’m no oddball here. Know where I stand on this and my country is more important than verbal moderation.

Another thing, it’s equally important to tie Obama’s name personally to all this and fast or he’ll coast into a second term with 60% approval rating of the media will have their way.

RepubChica on March 8, 2009 at 10:13 AM

William Amos on March 8, 2009 at 10:12 AM

He will not fix the bush depression in forty days.

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 10:14 AM

@ genso on March 8, 2009 at 10:02 AM

I am gonna ask this with all sincerity and with all due respect. Have you ever been judged to be mentally defective? I never said anything about Rush or his message. What I said was that when someone makes say, 2 million a year when a democrat is in office because his ratings increase, vs 1 million when a republican is in office, he has a financial incentive to see a liberal in office. That alone should disqualify him from being the leader of the party.

thphilli on March 8, 2009 at 10:14 AM

Rush’s ratings are twice what they normally are.

This can be used as an opportunity to attack the left.

Jesse Jackson = Rush, please? I do not see Rush shaking down corporations, I see him criticizing the President’s policies, which we agree (not so sure about David Frum) are a mess.

I like Patterico a lot. But he needs to not pull punches. On that point Jeff Goldstein is right, call the left on their lies and hypocrisy.

Mr. Joe on March 8, 2009 at 10:14 AM

The MSM have turned on Obama this week.

We caught The Rock hosting SNL last night, LOL!!!!

Besides the uproariously hilarious opening dance scene (did you know he’s a dancing TENOR?!) we caught the skit where the Potus transforms via anger from Barack Obama into The Rock Obama.

Glad to laugh before sleep!

maverick muse on March 8, 2009 at 10:14 AM

He will not fix the bush depression in forty days.

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 10:14 AM

Or lead us out of the wilderness in 40 nights either.

William Amos on March 8, 2009 at 10:14 AM

We’re not splitting hairs, this is an important discussion.

A contingent of Trotskyites has seized the White House, and are making no secret of their intentions to abolish free market capitalism and its underlying principle of liberty.

The most important job we can be doing right now is getting clarity on the ideas: (1) What’s so great about free market capitalism, and (2) Where does our liberty derive from?

There are harsh disagreements about those two questions, but until we can answer them clearly, it does us no good to pander to the exulted “undecideds” or “moderates.” They’ll figure out in a flash that we’re frauds just like they seem to be figuring out the same thing about Obama right now.

In my opinion, question number 2 is the most important one, and it’s the one that “moderates” wish to avoid with superficial answers and slogans, e.g. “spiritual belief is a private thing that ought to be kept out of the public square” or “separation of church and state.”

Sorry friends, but if we don’t have a satisfying answer to that question, where does our liberty come from, we are just another Democrat party pimping a pile of technical policy manuals. We’re just Clinton-lite with tax cuts. Only the most superficial voter would find that impressive, and again, even after winning him over in 2012, he’d catch on pretty quickly that we were empty shells and we’d be right back here whining about Rush Limbaugh.

jeff_from_mpls on March 8, 2009 at 10:14 AM

katy on March 8, 2009 at 10:09 AM

Fabulous katy.. My wife and I went ice fishing @ Fort Peck Lake in Northern Montana last weekend, and my wife caught a 15 pound lake trout. She caught it, cleaned it, and baked that fish up to perfection. Both of our sons were here, and the 4 of us ate well and enjoyed the evening together. Thanks for asking!

maverick muse on March 8, 2009 at 10:10 AM

Same feelings here about Savage Mav… Savage is all over the map these days, and his rants have made me believe he is not well of the mind.

Keemo on March 8, 2009 at 10:16 AM

Wow just went back and read Keemo 9:42.
Agreed Spirit. Exactly!

katy on March 8, 2009 at 10:16 AM

I’m sorry, Patterico, but you’re wrong on the Rush Limbaugh comment, and Jeff Goldstein is right. As I said..

I said earlier
Patterico wants to run Rush through a six-cycle car wash, complete with nice foamy wax, to polish him (and his message) shiny and bright, to impress the very people with whom we do battle. Unfortunately, that cleaning process would extinguish the lantern.

Rush is effective. Don’t try to sterilize or Pattericize pasteurize him.

Here’s what happens to a conservative vehicle what’s been washed and nicely polished, after it emerges from the wash..

New Chairman Boos G.O.P. When He’s Not Cheerleading
By JODI KANTOR [Today's NYT]

It doesnt’ really matter that we clean up our side of discourse; the minute we hit the open air the lefty monkeys will fling poo. They’ve done it countless times. Here, Michael Steele; before, that well-washed and liberally polished John McCain.

We cannot win with polished, nuanced discourses. It’s entirely possible we can’t win with Rush’s style either, but at least we come across as seemingly putting up a fight.

And, speaking of equal time, where’s Jeff Goldstein’s post here at HotAir?

You guys are missing a freakin’ genius, you know.

Your loss. As usual.

Serr8d on March 8, 2009 at 10:16 AM

William Amos on March 8, 2009 at 10:12 AM

Yep but you have eight years so get to work.

Find a leader first.

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 10:16 AM

Jesse Jackson = Rush, please?–Mr. Joe

David Frum is a flesh eating plague carrier.

maverick muse on March 8, 2009 at 10:16 AM

He will not fix the bush depression in forty days.

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 10:14 AM

Of course not….he’s sick. We are all praying that his illness will be short lived and that he will make a full recovery, but it is hard to say with a mental breakdown like his. Our hearts go out to his wife and beautiful daughters as well. It must be horrible for them now.

genso on March 8, 2009 at 10:17 AM

We need to get down and dirty with these freaks. Stuff like “I never got a job from a poor person”. Hit them right in the gut. “Obama nor Biden have never run a business, never signed a paycheck, never done ANYTHING in the privat sector.” We need to sing the praises of REAL opportunity, business ownership, and the virtues of hiring people, empowering them and their families financially. “Hard work and dedication leads to providing your kids a better life than you had. Don’t you want that?” It only happens through CAPITALISM – Not Government. Without CAPITALISM there ARE NO GOVT programs. We need to sing the praises of freedom, opportunity, and business ownership and the entrepreneurial spirit, while labeling anyone whose anti-business as UN-AMERICAN.

marklmail on March 8, 2009 at 10:18 AM

Go look at the ‘most recommended’ comments on USAToday after ANY OBAMA story- page after page of anti-obama remarks, and anti media. Folks are waking up- and they WANT TO BE LED. (emphasis mine)

[ExTex on March 8, 2009 at 9:17 AM]

To some extent, yes. However, more to the point is that people are looking for someone to do the work so they can get back to their own independent and isolated lives.

I’m not saying that is a bad thing or mean “independent and isolated lives” in a way that is denigrating. I’m all for being a good neighbor and not try to run everyone else’s lives for them. Conservatives and libertarians for the most part want to be left alone to live their lives as they see fit, socialize as they want, without some nanny butting in. And they want to help others, freely, as they see fit also which they do to a greater extent than the nannies themselves.

So we are unorganized and un-lead most of the time. Our initial preference when we are forced to organize is to find a leader, preferably one with sufficient character and personality, who will carry on the fight once we select him, or her, so we can skedaddle as quick as we can back to independent and isolated living, knowing they don’t need us any more.

It’s not so much waking up, mind you, as the arsonist progressives finally burning us. We need to resist the urge to delegate our voices and head for home.

Dusty on March 8, 2009 at 10:18 AM

Sorry friends, but if we don’t have a satisfying answer to that question, where does our liberty come from, we are just another Democrat party pimping a pile of technical policy manuals. We’re just Clinton-lite with tax cuts. Only the most superficial voter would find that impressive, and again, even after winning him over in 2012, he’d catch on pretty quickly that we were empty shells and we’d be right back here whining about Rush Limbaugh.

jeff_from_mpls on March 8, 2009 at 10:14 AM

We agree again, it’s happened twice now. Sign of the endtimes?

DeathToMediaHacks on March 8, 2009 at 10:18 AM

genso on March 8, 2009 at 10:17 AM

*laughs*

RepubChica on March 8, 2009 at 10:19 AM

The 10:14 DEMOCRAT DEPRESSION.
Socialism is as socialism does.

maverick muse on March 8, 2009 at 10:19 AM

Yep but you have eight years so get to work.

Find a leader first.

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 10:16 AM

Again I point out to you Getalife that the economy withstood 911, Katrina and the the War on Terror under Bush.

All it took was an election in 2006 to wreck the economy. The last 4 years hasnt been the Bush economy it has been the Pelosi economy.

William Amos on March 8, 2009 at 10:19 AM

Neither Patterico nor David Frum grok the Left. Rush Limbaugh does. This is the crux of the issue and of our time. Patterico’s long-winded apologios and Frum’s pretty parsings are meaningless without this essential understanding. Rush Limbaugh is a voice in a void. We should be grateful we have one.

rrpjr on March 8, 2009 at 10:19 AM

maverick muse on March 8, 2009 at 10:08 AM
kingsjester on March 8, 2009 at 10:06 AM

Republicans usually act like grown ups, compared to the last eight years of liberal pettiness directed at W, but it can be counterproductive. Just watch “our” guys on the news round tables. Almost to polite to get a word in let alone call BS. My only requirement for a voice from our side is that they not lie, other than that, go for broke. But we are going to have to be more vigilant about our elected folks and reign them in when they go off the reservation in regards to crazy spending and other Dem Lite acts.

Cindy Munford on March 8, 2009 at 10:19 AM

He will not fix the bush depression in forty days.

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 10:14 AM

I hope some enterprising reporter backs the messiah into a corner and gets him to admit that “we could be stuck in this recession for 100 years.”

Your child-President already said that “it might not be possible to reverse” this economic crisis, which is pretty much the same thing, and we’d be okay to go with that. But we’d like to force a more damning quote from him. We’re patient; we definitely know he’s capable of the gaffe, and we’re confident it’ll come.

The payback to you and your ilk would be delightful. We won’t let it go.

jeff_from_mpls on March 8, 2009 at 10:20 AM

genso on March 8, 2009 at 10:17 AM

He is not sick but works from the time he wakes up until he goes to bed trying to clean up the bush mess. Thankfully he is young and can go to Camp David on the weekends.

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 10:20 AM

I’m not a radio-talk show person. I admire Rush and consider him family. I don’t consider Frum family. That doesn’t mean I don’t want him in the party, it means that he’s not someone you can count on, and Rush is and always has been.

Imagine [Frum] having coined “axis of evil,” which is not much of coin, let’s face it, and then having done so walking away from the war pretending to be some sort of virgin.

Was the war a mistake? Maybe. He excommunicated a bunch of Conservatives who were not on board the War train. He did this at NRO. That reveals his character, and I want you to think about that.

Rush’s denunciation of those who found Jindal’s speech ineffective is something he should reconsider. And if he’s tending towards heresy hunting, he should pull himself back from that. That’s not who Rush is, it really isn’t.

Over at Ace’s Place, George Orwell the poster (see posts 59 & 98 on Otter thread), had this to say:

Did any of you hear Mark Levin talk to Frum on air this week? I’ll skip over everything except the meat and give you the essence. Frum had literally nothing to say, for two whole segments, other than “The GOP has to know it is losing popularity.” What a staggering insight. Such a refulgent, astute mind the little man has! Honestly, he said literally nothing that couldn’t be reduced to that… until the very end.

So one would think after hearing twenty-four variations on the theme “we’re losing,” Frumpy might, just for shits and giggles, have a prescription for winning. He withheld his silver bullet until the last seconds of the interview. Can you guess what the Big Solution is?

Frumpy his widdle self put it in four brief points.
1. Appease environmentalist voters
2. Drop social con issues (abortion, gay marriage)
3. Pay for middle class healthcare
4. it was either something about appealing to the young (how? too unimportant to say, I guess) or find creative ways to tax people to pay for all the above stuff

Now, can any one of you look at those four points and see anything other than a liberal’s wish list? Honestly? This powdered douchestocking is nothing but a closet leftard, whether he has the guts to admit it or not. Any uncommitted voter who would find all of his four points appealing has no use for the GOP. Why this is too subtle for Frumpy to comprehend is too inscrutable for me.

Then he said this:

What really puzzles is the sheer vacuity of the Frum approach. It seems to mean spending 90% of the time scolding the GOP for being losers, and only 10% on the solution… which is to discard limited government and liberty.

If that is the only future for the GOP, then I don’t need to bother with politics any longer. The spectacle of a Frum-designed GOP opposing the Demotards would be identical vultures fighting over the carcass of the republic.

It’s not the job of conservatives to find ways in which Frum, et al can insert themselves in the conversation. Either they have something that is solid and good and in line with principles or they do not.

Any person who grew up very near or on the wrong side of the tracks could spot Obama, like a bad toupee, from blocks away.

That they couldn’t do that and now they see the earth opening up beneath them is not my concern. They can be men of principle -in good times and in bad- or they can go straight to hell.

Eirenic Rebel on March 8, 2009 at 10:20 AM

genso on March 8, 2009 at 10:17 AM

HA! Yes we need to get JD back today and ramp up that great dialog!
That was brilliant!

katy on March 8, 2009 at 10:21 AM

Again what I find scary is that we are more obsessed with a President of the United States being upsetdays while our country is facing a war and a major economic crisis.

This whole issue isnt about Rush’s ego its ultimately about Obama’s ego. And we on the right are enabling him to stiffle critizism.

William Amos on March 8, 2009 at 10:04 AM

And when we see articles depicting “how over his head he is” we have to wonder what the hell kind of kindergardner class is running this country! Obama can’t address foreign policy or the economy, but he can worry about Rush Limbaugh?? That’s horrifying.

anniekc on March 8, 2009 at 10:22 AM

We agree again, it’s happened twice now. Sign of the endtimes?

DeathToMediaHacks on March 8, 2009 at 10:18 AM

Oh great. My credibility is out the door now. But hey, that means you’re not a bad egg after all? My world is coming undone. Indeed, these could be the endtimes.

:)

jeff_from_mpls on March 8, 2009 at 10:22 AM

Well Patterico you don’t speak for me! Who the hell do you think you are? If Rush hadn’t brought the fight to Obama who in the Republican party would?
The RNC and Republican party is more concerned with getting liberals and the media to like them and that is why they are loosing elections and I might add contributions.

Rush is right! The more people listen and realize it, the better chance we have of defeating the Democrats and weak kneed RINO’s that got us into the mess we are in today.

dhunter on March 8, 2009 at 10:22 AM

while I believe Rush Limbaugh is a very talented salesman for conservative values, I think it would be counterproductive to set him up as the head of the conservative movement.

Patterico continues the fallacy that the man Obama is the United States.

Who is it that is trying to ‘set up Limbaugh’ as the leader of the Republican party. It isn’t Limbaugh.

Rush is the cheer leader on the sidelines, not the quarterback. Rush is the color commentator on ESPN, not the quarter back on the field. Rush is waiting for someone to step up and be the leader of the Republican party.

Patterico even says it in the quote, Limbaugh is a salesman for conservatives ideas NOT the leader, then the following arguments are non sequitur while he argues the very straw man the Patterico admits isn’t the real debate.

Skandia Recluse on March 8, 2009 at 10:22 AM

What Rush should have said:

“For the sake of the children not to grow up in tranny I hope Obama fails!”

Or Obama’s plans are so idiotic and stupid they will destroy the country I hope Obama fails.

Or Obama’s plans are to Stalin what the consitution was to Washington. I hope Obama fails.

Or Obama’s ideas are as dangerous as pouring gasoline on a fire. I do not want to see my country on fire I hope Obama fails.

Or how about this you dumb moderates that have no idea of history, economics, cause and effect, unintended consequences etc

I hope Obama fails. oh wait I minute that is what Rush said. I guess the “educated” are just once again too stupid to get it. Sometime you can think too much. There is good and there is evil. Obama’s thoughts are evil to the Americian way. If you enjoy the present AMerica you will want, hope, pray, that Obama fails. If you like most liberals think that the present AMerica is a racist, over eating, energy hog, that kills women and children around the world you will want Obama to suceed because the AMerica that Obama leaves behind if he suceeds will in no way look like the present America.

Hope and change meets reality. Deal with it

unseen on March 8, 2009 at 10:23 AM

thphilli on March 8, 2009 at 10:14 AM

First Rush isn’t nor has ever claimed to be the voice of the party and second his big pay increase came while Pres. Bush was in office. Since he isn’t writing legislation I don’t understand how his salary impacts anything.

Cindy Munford on March 8, 2009 at 10:23 AM

katy on March 8, 2009 at 10:21 AM

Dad has been amazing with his posts starting yesterday morning. He’s exactly right. We need to all be concerned about Mr. President during this time of his nervous breakdown.

kingsjester on March 8, 2009 at 10:24 AM

Folks, please don’t let getalife turn this thread into a battle with getalife… This is an important discussion we are having here, and this creature only comes here to hijack threads…

Keemo on March 8, 2009 at 10:24 AM

thphilli on March 8, 2009 at 10:14 AM

Yeah…watch out for me…you never know when I’ll lose my mind and start killing everybody in the room.

Look…when the GOP was in power, people were busy doing other things and maybe they didn’t listen as much to Rush. Now they have to worry about where this country is headed and, like the terminally ill who head back to church, more people will listen to him. By your logic, the church wants to encourage more illness so that more people will show up on Sunday.

But, really, dude…don’t follow him if you don’t choose to. I couldn’t care less about who you follow.

genso on March 8, 2009 at 10:24 AM

damn, this Rush “I want him to fail” statement is getting a lot of play. Interesting times we live in now where the media generates its own headlines.

“In other news, another political pundit renders his opinion. Film at 11″

swash_plate on March 8, 2009 at 10:25 AM

Objectivist Superhero?

Mr. Joe on March 8, 2009 at 10:25 AM

Go look at the ‘most recommended’ comments on USAToday after ANY OBAMA story- page after page of anti-obama remarks, and anti media. Folks are waking up- and they WANT TO BE LED. (emphasis mine)

Did you read those same stories during the campaign? Page after page of anti-Obama comments them. I think those of us who spend a significant amount of time on the internet need to remember that, to this day, the majority of American’s don’t have access to the internet in their homes. And so, the comments pages of a blog or an online article isn’t necessarily a good representation of the voting public. I actually thought the election would be a lot closer based on the various comments pages I’d read on Fox or CNN, never thought he’d win OH, VA, NC. But there it was.

What I think has happened, as always happens, is that the people who are the most intense about politics now are people who were most anti-Obama because they truly feared his Presidency and are looking for signs of the coming apocalypse, justified or not.

DeathToMediaHacks on March 8, 2009 at 10:26 AM

Thanks to the Internet, people who couldn’t get a job rolling burritos can set themselves up as “pundits” and, if they hang around long enough, can achieve a certain amount of credibility far beyond their intellectual prowess.

That certainly seems to be true of Frum and, after this slight exposure (I’ve not run across him/her before, I don’t think) I’m tempted to file this “Patterico” under the same “don’t-bother-to-read” category.

If you go on and on, explaining and re-explaining, and drop in many quotes — that was the way we padded term papers in college, too — you can start sounding damn smart in a superficial kind of way that doesn’t hold up to scrutiny.

Frum strikes me as one who saw a chance to score in the “conservative” field and took it. I gather his wife does the same on the left. Who knows what he really believes? More important, who cares?

On the other hand, Limbaugh has been putting it out there for many years, day after day. He is mostly consistent — his shilling for Bush struck me as an aberration — and, when not heavily into rambling on about himself and his somewhat over-the-top lifestyle, makes a lot of good points.

I can’t stand him — hence “Rash Fatblob” — but I have a fair amount of respect for his core views, which I believe are genuine, which I share.

Contrary to what someone said earlier, we don’t “need” Frum, Patterico and Rush. Rush, yes, but instead of the other two, I submit we need more Levin, Williams, Sowell and Ingraham.

MrScribbler on March 8, 2009 at 10:27 AM

Scooter Libby anyone? A special prosecutor who failed to investigate and prosecute the actual case he was assigned to prosecute but who successfully created another crime in the process of the investigation. Indeed, what’s wrong with that?

radiofreevillage on March 8, 2009 at 10:12 AM

That same “special” prosecutor who drops the ball to hide in the closet in order to avoid doing his job against the Chicago political mafia, aka Obama presidency. Fitzgerald certainly had no problem leaking confidential records to the press in order to incite public animosity against Republicans.

DISTRACTION, I agree.
Focus on a semantic word volley when evidence is being flushed by the Feds in order to facilitate Obama’s Socialist take-over of our nation on his demented way to reign deranged as Der Weltkaiser.

maverick muse on March 8, 2009 at 10:27 AM

He is not sick but works from the time he wakes up until he goes to bed trying to clean up the bush mess. Thankfully he is young and can go to Camp David on the weekends.

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 10:20 AM

Its nice of you to try to cover for him but we all read the stories about his mental exhaustion. I prayed for him in church today. You liberals are just demanding too much from him. Please stop pushing him so hard.

genso on March 8, 2009 at 10:27 AM

DeathToMediaHacks on March 8, 2009 at 10:26 AM

the internet is in + 80% of homes get you facts straight

unseen on March 8, 2009 at 10:28 AM

Dad has been amazing with his posts starting yesterday morning. He’s exactly right. We need to all be concerned about Mr. President during this time of his nervous breakdown.

kingsjester on March 8, 2009 at 10:24 AM

This is a huge marketing opportunity for Hallmark if they would take it. Can you imagine if the White House received a million “Get Well Soon, Mr. President” cards. Printed on recycled paper, of course.

sherry on March 8, 2009 at 10:28 AM

Folks, please don’t let getalife turn this thread into a battle with getalife… This is an important discussion we are having here, and this creature only comes here to hijack threads…

Keemo on March 8, 2009 at 10:24 AM

AGREED, as tempting as is may be. Ignor his posts and carry on..

Last night was one of the best nights posting because everyone stayed on topic, ignored the trolls and watched it unfold!!

Ignor or die!

katy on March 8, 2009 at 10:28 AM

DeathToMediaHacks on March 8, 2009 at 10:26 AM

the internet is in + 80% of homes get you facts straight

unseen on March 8, 2009 at 10:28 AM

And Acorn is in 105%!

javamartini on March 8, 2009 at 10:30 AM

What I think has happened, as always happens, is that the people who are the most intense about politics now are people who were most anti-Obama because they truly feared his Presidency and are looking for signs of the coming apocalypse, justified or not.

DeathToMediaHacks on March 8, 2009 at 10:26 AM

You’re wrong. We are all worried about his health now. He’s not well and you guys are pushing him too hard. He can’t be everything to everyone like you want. Please, think of his health and that well being of his family. Give him a break, will you. Stop pushing him so hard…its just too much for one man to take.

genso on March 8, 2009 at 10:30 AM

genso on March 8, 2009 at 10:27 AM

Not a lib but think he is pushing himself hard to pass his agenda. Going for it while his numbers are high.

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 10:31 AM

Where are the articles on Obama’s mental exhaustion?

DeathToMediaHacks on March 8, 2009 at 10:31 AM

Cindy Munford on March 8, 2009 at 10:19 AM

Amen, sister.

maverick muse on March 8, 2009 at 10:32 AM

kingsjester on March 8, 2009 at 10:24 AM

Dad… HA! i like that better than JD and yes there is something to this angle I like.

sherry on March 8, 2009 at 10:28 AM

You may be on to something.. I love the idea.

katy on March 8, 2009 at 10:32 AM

Not a lib but think he is pushing himself hard to pass his agenda. Going for it while his numbers are high.

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 10:31 AM

You’re asking too much from him. How can any man hold up to the demands you make on him. Why are you allowing Rahm and Alexrod to damage his health in this way. Please tell them to back off a bit until he recovers from his mental exhaustion.

genso on March 8, 2009 at 10:33 AM

Oh, BTW (to quote Frank Zappa, “not that it means a heck of a lot to ya anyway…”): I sincerely hope Osama Obama fails, miserably and totally.

The sooner he fails, the sooner the salvage and repair of America can begin.

As far as Obama the person, I care just as much about his well-being and happiness as he does mine. That is to say, not at all.

MrScribbler on March 8, 2009 at 10:33 AM

DeathToMediaHacks on March 8, 2009 at 10:31 AM

There are none.

Wishful thinking.

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 10:33 AM

Sorry, this is the height of hypocrisy.

For 8 years the Democrats rooted for the failure of George Bush. Worse than that they conspired to defeat our military through defunding and propaganda. They wanted our military to fail. They wanted us to lose in Iraq. And their agenda was based singularly on regaining power.

Now Barack Obama constantly speaks of the “failed ideology” of George Bush. He’s actually referring to capitalism. Obama wants to stamp out market capitalism and institute his brand of socialism. And it starts with the destruction of capital.

For the sake of this country, we need him to fail.

dugan on March 8, 2009 at 10:34 AM

DeathToMediaHacks on March 8, 2009 at 10:31 AM

“Hair color” going white.

Obama’s a front man along for the ride to rule the world. But given his, Michelle’s and Hillary’s (et.al. appointees) performance, they have all bitten off more than they can chew.

Choking is exhausting.

maverick muse on March 8, 2009 at 10:35 AM

Rush Limbaugh does speak for me

It’s obvious what he meant by “I hope he fails” because he spent the next hour explaining what he meant by it

Liberals (I call them Leftists and they anything but Liberal) are deranged.

VinceP1974 on March 8, 2009 at 10:35 AM

Where are the articles on Obama’s mental exhaustion?

DeathToMediaHacks on March 8, 2009 at 10:31 AM

Surely you saw the articles about how his workload has caused so many gaffs by him. It was all over the media yesterday. They tried to play it down but anyone can plainly see that he has had a breakdown. Please keep him in your prayers and give him a break.

genso on March 8, 2009 at 10:35 AM

There are none.

Wishful thinking.

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 10:33 AM

Don’t be in denial. Don’t try to cover for his breakdown. Pray for him and for this country. Its not to his or his beautiful family’s or this country’s benefit to burden him so much while he is not well.

genso on March 8, 2009 at 10:38 AM

Rush does not speak for me. I speak for myself.

Rush, to be sure, has been a constant and consistent voice over the airwaves talking about Conservatism, basic values, the fundamentals…and I agree with most of what Rush says and has been saying.

What I find most troubling, presently, is that too many GOP, conservative and right-wing pundits are falling right in to the Rahm Emanuel tar pit…and while arguing with each other as to who is more conservative and who is more liberal-conservative, they offer few, if any, solutions…they just keep parroting the same old same old.

Look guys…think about this for a moment, or longer. Why is the President of the United States using the Office of the President of the United States and the Chief of Staff to the President of the United States, on taxpayer time and with taxpayer money to try to shut down a single voice on the Right?

Because Rush is wrong? Because Rush is out of touch with Conservatives? Because Rush had an oxycotin problem several years ago? Because Rush is a corpulent figure?

Second point to mull over.

Those voices on the “right” and in the center-right, who constantly try to convince us that heading Left in our views is the sole way to win…has that sort of thing ever really worked?

There are fundamentals of Conservatism that even a 13-year-old from Atlanta can articulate well.

Adhere to those basics. Live by those basics. Make certain any candidate you wish to place your faith and vote on is not only aware of those basics but has lived his/her public life (and personal life, as well) by those basics. Do this, and we can once again form a major voice to all America that here we are, this is where we stand, and these basics are indeed the core of what America was founded upon, and will flourish is these basics are strongly held…and those we elect are held accountible to.

I get the impression that those calling for relaxation of these core principles, seeking a bigger tent at all costs, are those who in reality, at the end of the day, really do not believe in those core principles, as articulated at CPAC by that young man in under 30 seconds…and these same people should be avoided at all costs…they are part of the problem, certainly not part of the solution.

The core principles of Conservatism…not pandering to whomever is the latest gloom and doomsayer carrying an (R) next to their name. Principles, not personalities.

coldwarrior on March 8, 2009 at 10:38 AM

genso on March 8, 2009 at 10:35 AM

Funny but at least you guys are not doing like those radicals at free reublic:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2200093/posts

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 10:40 AM

I would ask this to Frum and Patterico or anyone else who has a wad up thier behind about Rush…

In what way DOES he speak for you???

katy on March 8, 2009 at 10:42 AM

What’s wrong getalife? Dont like your president attacked on a daily basis?

Elric66 on March 8, 2009 at 10:42 AM

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 10:40 AM

I don’t see anything funny about a mental breakdown. Have you no compassion for our beloved President? Making jokes about his condition while he has worked so hard for us all? Shame on you!! You are expecting too much from one man.

genso on March 8, 2009 at 10:43 AM

maverick muse on March 8, 2009 at 10:27 AM

Yes. But my point was also that something similar happened during Clinton’s investigation. The crime that the Special Prosecutor was assigned to investigate, and why he got extraordinary powers, never came to any conclusion. Instead, this turned to lying about sex. I think that case and Libby’s case are very much the same.

Personally, I think neither was right.

radiofreevillage on March 8, 2009 at 10:43 AM

coldwarrior on March 8, 2009 at 10:38 AM

Well said.

Principles over personality.

Build the conservative party platform through the diligence of principled personalities.

It takes a person to embody a principle.

maverick muse on March 8, 2009 at 10:44 AM

Sorry, this is the height of hypocrisy.

dugan on March 8, 2009 at 10:34 AM

But of course, that’s not emphasized or written about by the allahpundits and pattericos of the world.

Blake on March 8, 2009 at 10:44 AM

So now Rush was possibly referring to Patterico? Silly me, I didn’t know that Patterico was with Hot Air. Is this really about Rush and Frum or is it really about trying to add hits to your site?

If they don’t speak for you, why speak about them. There are any number of topics that you can write about, but instead you chose to speak of these two.

Pam on March 8, 2009 at 10:44 AM

Don’t be in denial. Don’t try to cover for his breakdown. Pray for him and for this country. Its not to his or his beautiful family’s or this country’s benefit to burden him so much while he is not well.

genso on March 8, 2009 at 10:38 AM

His breakdown is the best thing that could happen to the nation, a strong anti-growth socialist is not what we need.
I know you’re being snarky, but I will continue to pray for his popularity to go to zero, for people to wake up, and for us to get back on the right track…before the market tanks entirely.

clnurnberg on March 8, 2009 at 10:44 AM

Scooter Libby anyone? A special prosecutor who failed to investigate and prosecute the actual case he was assigned to prosecute but who successfully created another crime in the process of the investigation. Indeed, what’s wrong with that?

radiofreevillage on March 8, 2009 at 10:12 AM

If you can give Geithner a pass, anything goes.

ddrintn on March 8, 2009 at 10:45 AM

Elric66 on March 8, 2009 at 10:42 AM

Well, I was hoping it would not start on his first day but it is a free country.

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 10:45 AM

coldwarrior on March 8, 2009 at 10:38 AM

Very well said my friend. By the way, Rush does not speak for me either, I can take care of that myself. I just happen to agree with him 99.999 percent of the time.

conservnut on March 8, 2009 at 10:46 AM

coldwarrior on March 8, 2009 at 10:38 AM

On target! Whammo.

RepubChica on March 8, 2009 at 10:48 AM

Well, I was hoping it would not start on his first day but it is a free country.

getalife on March 8, 2009 at 10:45 AM

Well on his first day, he decided to close Gitmo and fund foreign abortionswith tax payer dollars. You know you could counter this by defending his actions.

Elric66 on March 8, 2009 at 10:48 AM

Did you read those same stories during the campaign? Page after page of anti-Obama comments them. I think those of us who spend a significant amount of time on the internet need to remember that, to this day, the majority of American’s don’t have access to the internet in their homes.

DeathToMediaHacks on March 8, 2009 at 10:26 AM

Thereby getting most of their “info” from the MSM. “How Obama got elected”. These same people knew all about Bristol Palin, but not Jeremiah Wright. Go figure.

ddrintn on March 8, 2009 at 10:48 AM

javamartini on March 8, 2009 at 10:09 AM

javamartini offers a sound piece of advice, allow me to repeat it:

Rather than offering advice to someone who does not need it( Rush), the conservative media should slap down every liberal who tries to twists anyone’s words out of context…this would save a lot of time having to worry about how you say anything…

In essence, why not stick together as a solid front when confronting liberals and their childish word games. If you want to discuss strategy, then you all should get together in secret as opposed to public debates that are used to divide the movement…

drunyan8315 on March 8, 2009 at 10:48 AM

clnurnberg on March 8, 2009 at 10:44 AM

;) You should try this…its fun.

genso on March 8, 2009 at 10:48 AM

Everyone stop feeding the getalife troll.

Seperately, Geither is scary. I watched a CSPAN panel he was in 1998 regarding the Asian crisis, and he’s a buffoon.

VinceP1974 on March 8, 2009 at 10:48 AM

I am gonna ask this with all sincerity and with all due respect. Have you ever been judged to be mentally defective? I never said anything about Rush or his message. What I said was that when someone makes say, 2 million a year when a democrat is in office because his ratings increase, vs 1 million when a republican is in office, he has a financial incentive to see a liberal in office. That alone should disqualify him from being the leader of the party.

thphilli on March 8, 2009 at 10:14 AM

Projection, in the psychological sense. Go look it up – you may learn something about yourself, God willing! :)

Bizarro No. 1 on March 8, 2009 at 10:49 AM

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