David Frum Does Not Speak for Me Any More Than Rush Limbaugh Does
posted at 7:00 am on March 8, 2009 by Patterico
I recently risked being labeled one of the “oddballs” at Hot Air when I said that, while I believe Rush Limbaugh is a very talented salesman for conservative values, I think it would be counterproductive to set him up as the head of the conservative movement. As long as I’m carrying around “NOT IN MY NAME” placards, let me add another person who doesn’t speak for me: David Frum.
Frum has a NEWSWEEK piece that expands on his recent comments about Rush Limbaugh. Even as Frum purports to set forth his conservative bonafides, he undermines them:
I supported the Iraq War and (although I feel kind of silly about it in retrospect) the impeachment of Bill Clinton.
I don’t see why a conservative would feel “silly” about having supported the impeachment of a man who committed perjury and obstruction of justice, and abused the power of his office to destroy the reputations of people whom he considered a political danger. Frum makes no argument why Clinton’s impeachment was wrong. Without that argument, his comment seems like an unnecessary concession to the liberal cocktail set — a way to get the “good people” to take his argument seriously.
Frum also repeats an offensive set of comments he made on his blog earlier this week — comments that I bashed as contradictory and unnecessarily insulting:
With his private plane and his cigars, his history of drug dependency and his personal bulk, not to mention his tangled marital history, Rush is a walking stereotype of self-indulgence—exactly the image that Barack Obama most wants to affix to our philosophy and our party.
In other words, Rush Limbaugh Is a Big Fat Idiot. Well, Mr. Frum, we already have one too many Al Frankens in politics. We don’t need another. Limbaugh’s bulk and private life have bupkis to do with his arguments, and you devalue the debate if you maintain that they are in any way relevant.
Here’s where Frum almost makes a good point, except that he phrases it in a hopelessly naive way:
Notice that Limbaugh did not say: “I hope the administration’s liberal plans fail.” Or (better): “I know the administration’s liberal plans will fail.” Or (best): “I fear that this administration’s liberal plans will fail, as liberal plans usually do.” If it had been phrased that way, nobody could have used Limbaugh’s words to misrepresent conservatives as clueless, indifferent or gleeful in the face of the most painful economic crisis in a generation. But then, if it had been phrased that way, nobody would have quoted his words at all—and as Limbaugh himself said, being “headlined” was the point of the exercise. If it had been phrased that way, Limbaugh’s face would not now be adorning the covers of magazines. He phrased his hope in a way that drew maximum attention to himself, offered maximum benefit to the administration and did maximum harm to the party he claims to support.
It’s crazy to say that “nobody could have used Limbaugh’s words to misrepresent conservatives . . .” Of course they could have, and of course they would have. They always do. That’s standard operating procedure for the media and leftists (but I repeat myself).
What Frum should have said is that phrasing the statement in the ways he suggests would have made it harder to distort Limbaugh’s meaning. Not impossible — just harder.
The problem with saying “I hope he fails” is that it’s open to so many interpretations. Reasonable people hearing “I hope he fails” might think Limbaugh hopes Obama’s policies, once enacted, will fail to save the economy. You think that’s a ridiculous interpretation? You may think you know what Limbaugh meant — but no matter what you think, there are conservatives equally certain that he meant something different.
I ran a poll on my site yesterday in which I said: of course no conservative wants Obama’s policies enacted. Of course Rush wants Obama to “fail” to enact them. But, assuming Obama’s policies are enacted anyway, do you interpret Rush to be saying that he wants the policies to 1) succeed, meaning the economy improves? or 2) fail, meaning socialism fails, allowing conservative principles to re-emerge?
The responses — primarily from conservative readers with no desire to misread Limbaugh’s words — were all over the map:
“It was #1, and no doubt about it.”
“Patterico, I think it is very clear that Mr. Limbaugh means #2″
“#1 obviously.”
“Of course Limbaugh meant #2.”
If conservatives are this confused about Limbaugh’s message, then he didn’t express it clearly enough. And given the visibility of his CPAC speech, and the controversial nature of his remarks, he needed to be clear.
Some say: conservatives can’t worry about how they say things. They know their arguments will be distorted anyway, so they shouldn’t worry about being misinterpreted. I completely disagree with this argument. I say: when you know people will distort your meaning, you have to be extra careful to express yourself clearly.
Granted, there’s a tension between making your argument clear, and giving it punch. I understand and respect the view that if you word your statements in too lawyerly a fashion, with clarifications and caveats, you might sacrifice the forcefulness of your argument.
But you can be forceful and clear all at the same time. For example, Rush could have said: “It doesn’t matter what I hope for. I know he’ll fail.” That would have been just as effective and compelling — but possibly less controversial. And while the controversy generated by this uncertainty over Rush’s meaning has been good for his ratings, it’s doubtful that it has been good for conservatives.
What’s more, in his CPAC speech, he went out of his way to describe liberals as “deranged”:
I have learned how to tweak liberals everywhere. I do it instinctively now. Tweak them in the media. And no reason to be afraid of these people. Why in the world would you be afraid of the deranged?
Using the word “deranged” to describe liberals as a whole is just silly. It’s true of some of them. But not all of them. Calling liberals deranged may make you feel good, and it may make you laugh. But many of you consider Limbaugh to be the spokesman of the conservative movement — and if our spokesmen regularly say stuff like that, we’ll alienate voters. And then, we’ll get eight years of Obama and his crazy spending that is killing our children’s future.
When I choose leaders and spokesmen for my party and my political movement, I want clarity, vigor, integrity, perspective, and a lack of pettiness. In my view, David Frum — with his comments about Limbaugh’s bulk and personal life — showed pettiness. With his ambivalence about Clinton’s impeachment — not justified by any argument but made as an aside as if to curry favor with the elite — Frum lacks the integrity of a true conservative.
Rush has many of the above qualities — but when he calls liberals “deranged,” I think he lacks perspective. And when he said “I hope he fails,” I think he sacrificed clarity for controversy.
We can do better. Rush Limbaugh does not speak for me. And neither does David Frum.
UPDATE: At the same time, we can’t allow Democrats to seize the moral high ground on this. Here’s hard proof they didn’t want Bush to succeed.










Blowback
Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.
Trackbacks/Pings
Trackback URL
Comments
Comment pages: « Previous 1 2 3 4 … 8 Next »
Rush, a radio talk show host, says he want’s Obama’s policies to fail and it’s national news for weeks.
On the campaign trail, the great speaker Obama claims he’s been to 56 states and it’s barely reported.
The Speaker of the House claims that the US is losing jobs at a rate where everyone will be unemployed by the end of the year, and it’s barely reported.
The Vice President opens his mouth and says something stupid (too many examples to list), and it’s barely reported.
Isn’t it great that the countries priorities are in place?
NCJeff on March 8, 2009 at 8:46 AM
These personal attack pieces have no place on Hot Air. It lowers the content value of the publication. Please don’t do it again.
percysunshine on March 8, 2009 at 8:47 AM
All people the average person has NO CLUE exists. They don’t convince anyone that way!
How about he wrote this because he’s been taking heat because of a post on on his site that was seen as a defense of PC. (All the anti Limbaugh stuff is predicated on the adoption of the lingo of the left). So I suspect he posted here to try to recruit more people to that argument. Patterico was under no threat to be considered an “oddball” here; he posts but rarely.
Spirit of 1776 on March 8, 2009 at 8:48 AM
Hey Patterico
Don’t know if you’ll read this, but…
This all got started because a news magazine of some sort asked Rush to write a little piece about the areas in which Rush hoped Obama would succeed. And Rush’s reaction was that he rejected the premise. He knew enough about Obama’s political intentions that he hoped none would succeed. He instead hoped Obama would fail in his political intentions. That seems quite clear to me.
I don’t think you listen to Limbaugh, which is fine, but in every remark I’ve heard him make, the context he provides makes it clear to anyone what exactly he means. Anyone who pretends otherwise is only twisting for effect and spin. If you don’t want him to speak for you, that’s fine too. Rush doesn’t really speak for anyone – we just agree with him quite often. And certainly in this case…
How do you assume that everyone who reads your web site and took your poll is conservative?
beatcanvas on March 8, 2009 at 8:49 AM
Patterico Does Not Speak for Me Any More Than Allah Does
Thanks Geckomom :)
Spirit of 1776 on March 8, 2009 at 8:49 AM
Great, just what this site needs, another “I’m a genius because I’m above it all” knob like patterico.
The more time passes, the only guy who has a pair,convictions and can actually write is Mark Steyn.
jjshaka on March 8, 2009 at 8:50 AM
Although “bupkis” is used as a word for “nothing” in Yiddish, it literally means “goat pellets.”
Just thought you might be interested to know that.
Attila (Pillage Idiot) on March 8, 2009 at 8:51 AM
Didn’t the Clintonian Army try this same battle to take out Rush immediately after the Oklahoma City Federal Building bombing? As I recall, his “hate-speech” was responsible for the bombing and the whole country was to turn against him. Meanwhile, 10 years later and after a 400 million dollar new contract…..
Marcus on March 8, 2009 at 8:51 AM
Frum is a first-class moron. On Levin’s show last week, he had to have Mark explain to him that when Rush referred to the speech at CPAC as his “first national address” he was clearly mocking the people that have been trying to elevate him to the leader of the GOP. Frum thought that he was being 100% serious, not joking one bit and Frum sounded like an idiot when Mark made this point. I really think he thinks Rush is interested in taking over and leading the GOP, and that is why he hates him because Rush hogs attention and nobody wants to listen to Frum’s policy ideas. I believe this is simply a case of jealousy.
Joe Caps on March 8, 2009 at 8:53 AM
Whoa! What’s with the genderbending???!!!!
geckomon on March 8, 2009 at 8:53 AM
“Killing our children’s future” is not “Deranged?”
Rush is right. Patterico (while not whiny and annoying like Frum) is wrong.
tlclark on March 8, 2009 at 8:53 AM
Frum is not relevant
to the conservative movement.OmahaConservative on March 8, 2009 at 8:57 AM
One that the “pundits” say can win.
peacenprosperity on March 8, 2009 at 8:57 AM
“Envy consists in seeing things never in themselves, but only in their relations. If you desire glory, you may envy Napoleon, but Napoleon envied Caesar, Caesar envied Alexander, and Alexander, I daresay, envied Hercules, who never existed.”
- Bertrand Russell
TMK on March 8, 2009 at 8:58 AM
Ha. A thousand apologies. Obviously I didn’t c/paste.
Spirit of 1776 on March 8, 2009 at 8:58 AM
I was thinking exactly the same thing. This may be below Steyn’s pay grade, but can’t he stop by and share a couple of posts? Pretty please???
conservative pilgrim on March 8, 2009 at 8:58 AM
I agree but its “Amateur Hour” at HotAir!
Amadeus on March 8, 2009 at 8:59 AM
Go check out Protein Wisdom post. People are revolting over having Frum, Brooks, Parker, et al, being shoved down their throats. Also, the constant bashing of conservatives by people, like allahpundit and patterico, who falsely believe they are our betters. They make no bones about wanting the party to move drastically to the left.
People are tired of being told what they can and cannot say; what administration policies they can and cannot attack, etc.
Go join the revolt.
p.s.: When was the last time JeffG was linked here? Why is that? Falling out? Failure to fall in line?
Blake on March 8, 2009 at 8:59 AM
Eh I would listen to Rush for entertainment sake. Rush never advances policy via his show he only advances his opinion.
Rush is not a polotician nor is he a spokesman of any kind for the GOP. He is the keeper of the Conservative consceince when Moderates demand that the GOP abandon conservatism for the “Big Tent” Theory.
Less anyone forget it was a Moderate Reublican that lead us to our greatest election defeat. Now the moderates want to shift the blame back to Rush and Palin for their failure.
William Amos on March 8, 2009 at 8:59 AM
The silliest thing is the idea that a radio talk show host needs to “moderate” his message in order to attract “undecideds” (most of whom have already “decided” but are ashamed to say so).
I’m waiting for some liberals to come out and slam Olbermann and Matthews and otherwise distance themselves from MSNBC in order to attract “undecideds”.
ddrintn on March 8, 2009 at 8:59 AM
BTW why are we so wound up on if we want Obama to fail or Suceed ? Should we be more focused on what WE Stand for than being forced to defend our opinions on what OBAMA stands for ?
The left truely has us in a tailspin if we keep wasting so much time on debating what Obama and the democrats stand for.
William Amos on March 8, 2009 at 9:01 AM
Duh. Why is this statement necessary? Rush gives no pretenses that he speaks for anyone but himself. He is what he is and he’s comfortable with that. Enjoy him or ignore him, it makes no difference to him.
docdave on March 8, 2009 at 9:02 AM
This is a dangerous line of argument. Is it self-indulgent to drive a Hummer instead of a Honda Accord? A Honda Accord instead of a Toyota Prius? To drive a car at all instead of take the bus?
Never mind that “Limbaugh’s bulk and private life have bupkis to do with his arguments,” because I think they do. I have never been a big fan of Limbaugh but he has every right to be as fat as wants to be, and have as much trouble with women as the next guy.
It’s not that this is irrelevant to his arguments, it’s central to the argument that people have a right to live as they see fit with or without the permission of the Congressional leadership or Barack Obama.
More libertarian than conservative? Yeah, but that’s how some of us roll.
Planet Moron on March 8, 2009 at 9:03 AM
Anyone who had to wait for Frum’s latest utterances in order to dismiss him has given Mr. Frum way too much lattitude. This man has no credibility whatsoever with conservatives. He’s part of the Axis of Weasels.
Also, the argument that conservatives need to be especially clear to make it difficult to take their words out of context concedes way too much to the Liberals. You could just as easily argue that staying vague is best. Giving the Libs too many options for distortion means that they won’t arrive at consensus on what is meant. This will dilute the attack from the Left.
Also, your argument ignores the growing perception (over the last thirty years) that the Libs and their media are full of crap. Just because Begala, Emanuel, and Lauer say it’s so means a whole lot of nothing. Forty years ago it would have been a Cronkite and an RFK making a compelling case. See how far the Libs have fallen.
Why do we waste our time going over the machinations of these political in-breds?
EMD on March 8, 2009 at 9:03 AM
We’re not electing the head of the conservative movement when we listen to Rush. That is a silly (and calculated) construct of the Obama WH and the Left. There’s no reason for us to cede the point to them.
Rush articulates conservative principals, he deconstructs the inanity of Leftist dogma and he tweaks the most laughable of them mercilessly. He is so effective at it, that Obama, et al have to neutralize him. We shouldn’t help them.
It isn’t a choice between Rush and Frum — I don’t care if either one of them succeeds or fails. I do care if our country is irreparably harmed by the far Left policies being foisted upon us by this Administration.
Whatever impedes the hard Left drive of the current White House and Congress is a good thing. The more frantic and hysterical the Left is is attacking somebody or something, the more inclined I am to believe it is, and will be, effective against them.
cruadin on March 8, 2009 at 9:03 AM
I can understand why that causes so much angst for the Left — no one is supposed to talk against Dear Leader — but it’s truly mystifying why the phrase would be such an embarrassment to conservatives. Perhaps caring more what the libs think about us rather than our own principles?
ddrintn on March 8, 2009 at 9:04 AM
Your 100% correct but Patterico has his own agenda.
With his obvious enabler.
Amadeus on March 8, 2009 at 9:04 AM
-
So saying… “Limbaugh’s bulk and private life have bupkis to do with his arguments.” is much like saying… “Limbaugh’s bulk and private life don’t have sheet to do with his arguments.”
-
Works for me.
RalphyBoy on March 8, 2009 at 9:05 AM
“Envy, like the worm, never runs but to the fairest fruit; like a cunning bloodhound, it singles out the fattest deer in the flock. Abraham’s riches were the Philistines’ envy; and Jacob’s blessing bred Esau’s hatred.”
- J. Beaumont
TMK on March 8, 2009 at 9:06 AM
Sadly, we live in a soundbite culture. No matter what Dingy Harry has or will ever do, he’ll always be Harry “war is lost” Reed. Just as “Mission Accomplished” Bush, “Is no relationship” Clinton…now “I hope he fails” Limbaugh.
The vast majority of Rush critics, including Dear Leader have never listened to Rush, they just know he’s bad because he hopes The One Fails.
The senate letter last year attacked Rush for a soundbite out of context that he was demeaning the troops. Rush cleaned their clock, as I think he will here
swede7 on March 8, 2009 at 9:06 AM
If someone wants to lecture Limbaugh on elocution, let them first prove their own superiority performing 3 hours a day M-F every week, every year.
Rush Limbaugh never purported to speak for the elitists who come in all political movements. Elitists need no spokesman as they handle their own concerns amongst themselves.
Not always tuning into Rush, my recall is limited. But I have never heard Rush claim to speak for us, either, though his audience calls him to thank him for expressing their thoughts so well, so publicly, for them.
Rush Limbaugh speaks for himself, just as we all do. He therefore has every right to make his radio show successful. In doing THAT, looking at the big picture, what he says may need polishing to suit an elite desire for purity. But there is no spokesperson, public or private, who says spontaneously the exact polished inoffensive message at all times. No one. And to tell a radio host that controversy is off limits is censorship leading to the death of the show. And the show MUST go on.
I could argue that Limbaugh worded his “I want Obama’s Socialism to fail” PERFECTLY as the affect of his own words effect has brought EVERYONE INTO THIS DISCOURSE to determine under the big GOP tent exactly what do we want to fail and how do we prevent further Socialist erosion in order to protect the American Constitutional interests, the survival of our strength in liberty?
As a root example, our Constitution was not written overnight. Its thesis required much discourse in order to be refined into the valid script we maintain.
Rush Limbaugh speaks for himself, just as each of our founding fathers spoke for himself, and by our Constitutional rights we citizens speak for ourselves; but conservatives ALL conjoin upon the same Constitutional principles. For our voices to be heard, government must be kept in a proportionate size to stay within ear shot.
To hell with PC, the fog of this political war. The pure PC standard only applies to conservatives, BY THEIR OWN CHOOSING HAVING TAKEN UP THE INVITATION EXTENDED BY PC CREATORS, as liberals ONLY uphold the double standard. Wake up, folks, because liberals invented PC in order for conservatives to bind themselves into knots. Reject PC for being the mask that enables progressive hypocrisy and for dissolving the essence of every matter. PC is the gift wrap of Socialist revisionism.
maverick muse on March 8, 2009 at 9:07 AM
Resolved: Frum is a jackass.
That is a false choice. Rush is afraid that Socialism will succeed not fail, because when Socialism succeeds evil prevails. If the economy “improves” it will be a temporary uptick because people temporarily get taxpayer-funded government jobs (with rapid expiration dates to boot). Moreover, any temporary uptick will be followed with hyperinflation (and shrinking employment in the private sector).
But that’s not what Rush meant! It’s not about Obama’s failure, it’s about his failed policies – which we can predict with accuracy are failed policies because they have failed every time they have been tried throughout history.
Fine. Maybe it would have been better to call them unhinged.
Buy Danish on March 8, 2009 at 9:07 AM
The one good thing that came out of this debate is I hope that Michael Steele is finally FOCUSED on rebuilding the party rather than trying to run as the GOP spokesman.
Michael Steele doesnt speak for me either. The sad thing is there really is no one of leadership stature currently in the GOP. Some like Fred Thompson or Mitt Romney or Sarah Palin can grow into that but they still need to win over doubters.
Right now no one in the GOP speaks for me.
William Amos on March 8, 2009 at 9:08 AM
Let’s be more specific on this also. The media started the “Do you want obama to succeed game.” They didn’t start it with Rush, they were going around asking all kinds of republicans that question, playing a gotcha game that the ball less, cowardly and, in my opinion, unethical and unprincipled republican “leaders” failed miserably at. They were afraid of giving the honest answer that weeks into this msm game Rush gave. Rush commented on the game the media was playing, how poorly republicans were answering that question and then hannity asked it to him in an interview, an interview I would bet Rush instigated. Hey people, wake up! The media set up this trap and waited for it to spring. Rush gave the correct answer, all these weak spined, psuedo conservative, want to be part of the “elite” media pundits are the ones giving the wrong answer. It isn’t Rush who is giving them the ammunition now, it’s these pundits. Mike Pence answered this question on cnn last week the way it needed to be answered, he thrw the dishonesty back in the face of the media and stood whole heartedly behind Rush. Have you seen him on tv since then? No. The msm doesn’t want anyone answering the question that way, it would kill this little game quick if every republican answered it that way. The msm wants it to fester as long as possible.
peacenprosperity on March 8, 2009 at 9:09 AM
>>Any of you who are tired of being called on to repudiate what you said because it outrages the perpetually outraged, who really don’t care what it is you meant, are welcome to sign on as outlaws at Protein Wisdom<<
I got on board the other day!
CinnamongirlUF on March 8, 2009 at 9:09 AM
Every time the GOP loses an election it’s because of those knuckle-dragging evangelicals and other socons and their idol Limbaugh holding everybody back. When the GOP wins, it’s “we couldn’t have done it without them — now go away until we need you to come out next time around”. It’s all getting pretty old.
ddrintn on March 8, 2009 at 9:11 AM
-
Amen to that!
-
RalphyBoy on March 8, 2009 at 9:13 AM
Oh Good greif the Michael Steele is insane
William Amos on March 8, 2009 at 9:13 AM
Doesn’t really seem like enough in the GOP are speaking at all, let alone with any conviction, hence the focus on Limbaugh.
misslizzi on March 8, 2009 at 9:14 AM
Frum, Brooks, Noonan, et al- the ‘castrati’ trying to kill the party. The Dems fight tooth and nail- but we need to speak extra carefully??
The ONLY chance we have is to state LOUDLY, CLEARLY, what conservatism is! WE MUST USE HUMOR and RIDICULE to bring down the left. THAT IS THE LANGUAGE OF THE YOUNG TODAY!
The left has thousands of obnoxious personalities SHOUTING their talking points. Olbermann, MSNBC, Maher, THE VIEW, KOS,Huffington, Letterman, Daily Show, Michael Moore, Hollywood-tards, etc.
RUSH is the BEST weapon we have. We NEED RUSH ans Beck and others to sell our message to the fed-up masses.
The young voters and the every day folks DO NOT LISTEN TO THE CASTRATI!! Left to Frum, et al WE LOSE.
FOLKS WANT TO BE FIRED UP- not lectured to by elites.
By GOD why do you think Sarah Palin was so popular???
ExTex on March 8, 2009 at 9:14 AM
“…In my view, David Frum — with his comments about Limbaugh’s bulk and personal life — showed pettiness. With his ambivalence about Clinton’s impeachment — not justified by any argument but made as an aside as if to curry favor with the elite — Frum lacks the integrity of a true conservative.” — Patterico
————————————————————
Actually Sir, not quite right. If one expresses a certain point of view and the values that go with them then they should be reflected in their personal lives as well. Otherwise one is no better than Al Gore.
Ed Begley Jr. is a leftist and I could not vote for him. But I will give him the courage of his convictions. He walks the talk in his green muddled mindset — Prius, composting toilet and all.
Dr. Dog on March 8, 2009 at 9:15 AM
I like Patterico a lot, but his diagnosis and prescriptions are too strict.
Patterico derides Frum for spinkling cautious modifiers throughout his writing to pacify the “cocktail party” set.
Then he chides Rush for going overboard and calling liberals “deranged” and not choosing his words carefully enough.
This leaves us with the conclusion that the only true conservative spokesman is… Patterico?
fivefeetoffury on March 8, 2009 at 9:16 AM
With all due respect, have these boys determined which one’s pee-pee is bigger so we can move on?
Rational Thought on March 8, 2009 at 9:16 AM
Precisely. That’s how goat pellets became nothing.
Attila (Pillage Idiot) on March 8, 2009 at 9:17 AM
Patterico, I don’t know where you are with this post. You seem to jump in about ten different directions with it. (then again perhaps it’s my hangover)
Here is my two cents, I WANT OBAMA TO FAIL! HIM, PERSONALLY, I KNOW WHAT HE AND HIS ILK STAND FOR AND I WANT IT ALL TO BE A MISERABLE FAILURE!
His agenda has nothing to do with fixing the economy, any idiot knows that. It has only to do with taking advantage of the economic situation to push his leftest agenda and I want that to fail. This is what Rush means I have never agreed with him more than I do over this issue.
Wake up and grow a pair for gods sake!
conservnut on March 8, 2009 at 9:17 AM
Go look at the ‘most recommended’ comments on USAToday after ANY OBAMA story- page after page of anti-obama remarks, and anti media. Folks are waking up- and they WANT TO BE LED.
ExTex on March 8, 2009 at 9:17 AM
Don’t blame us for what these nitwits say. Hey, they don’t speak for us.
TheBigOldDog on March 8, 2009 at 9:18 AM
Wonderful long diary Patterico. I agree with maybe half of it but I think you buried the lead.
This entire “thing” has much more to do with narratives required in this news cycle. There’s one story and that one story requires layers to play with on air. For TV, Radio, print et al. Rush realizes this as much as the MSNBC anchors, they’re just playing a rhetorical squash game (on purpose.)
Plus and people miss this. There are a lot of conservatives out there who didn’t quite enjoy watching the entire media bat around President Bush for Six Years and they’re subsequently……pissed. The venom you hear from the radio is partially payback (not to Obama) but to the Far Left for what they did to the American Presidency.
AYNBLAND on March 8, 2009 at 9:18 AM
I think somebody just wanted to get in on the “Hey everybody’s talking about Rush, lemme jump on the bandwagon for some of that attention”. No one is going to change most Limbaugh listeners minds- we love him, we trust him to be accurate. we know what he meant, we thought it long before he articulated it on the air. These wannabe’s continue to expose their need for relevance.
anniekc on March 8, 2009 at 9:19 AM
“He never quite had what it took to be a star, so he’s a critic”
Toby Keith
thomasaur on March 8, 2009 at 9:20 AM
I’m still waiting for an explanation from the White House Press Bully as to why he thinks it a good use of his bully pulpit to talk down to the president’s critics and single them out by name.
And a White House too “overwhelmed” to properly host the leader of a close ally should perhaps stop spending so much time bashing its domestic critics and hosting love-fests with nations like Iran, Cuba, Russia, etc.
Conservatives, please stop letting the White House set your agenda, or you’ll be playing right into their hands. As for Frum: you walked out the door, so how about you stay out and let us manage our own affairs?
cackcon on March 8, 2009 at 9:21 AM
Blake on March 8, 2009 at 9:21 AM
DERANGEMENT SYNDROME: Liberal behavioral demands to be appeased regardless of cost to be paid not by themselves, but by their opponents and every FORGOTTEN MAN never consulted but always charged payment due in full.
Being the same shoe that walked all over GWB, revisionists would express their demands to rename the essence of the given matter, illustrated by a shoe.
If the shoe fits, wear it. But throwing it at the political target doesn’t remove the shoe’s owner of ownership and responsibility for bad behavior.
maverick muse on March 8, 2009 at 9:21 AM
It’s always interesting to read people who claim to be conservatives – and then they aren’t. I am a conservative and these people certainly would not invite me to one of their sob cocktail parties where they sit around and make fun of conservatives! Conservatives don’t have time for twits like Frum and don’t read him so he doesn’t have to worry about what we think! He can go on preaching to his liberal choir while he fools himself about his own true leanings.
sabbott on March 8, 2009 at 9:22 AM
Patterico is just fine.
maverick muse on March 8, 2009 at 9:24 AM
So are trying to declare Ronald Reagan Conservatism being dead and that we need a whole new party to replace it.
Funny it’s always after moderates lead us to defeat that those same moderates want us to abandon conservatism.
We lost again because the demcrats were better organized than we were. The democrats releared how to do Chicago machine style politics all over again.
The whole problem with the GOP is that we are focusing on TRYING to pick a spokesman. The real reason we lost. We dont need spokesmen for our message we need a better way to deliever it to the American people past an overtly hostile MSM.
Instead of building a party to defeat Obama, Instead of building a stronger GOP, Instead of building a better way to get our message out to the American people we seem bent on going down the very same road that cost us the last election. Namely that we want to pick noe person to articulate the entire GOP’s message that is to reach out to everyone in this country.
That is the true failure of the GOP. We are focused too much on trying to get a spokesman.
William Amos on March 8, 2009 at 9:24 AM
Excellent post, Pat, though I have some quibbles.
First off, I don’t think Rush is being set up as head of the conservative movement and few, if any, are arguing for it. To me, that point is a strawman and I can just as easily see this point being, in a theoretical sense, used by the media to complain that conservatives are doing so because you acknowledged that trend is a worry of “some conservatives.” Should that happen, I wouldn’t say you were careless. I’d defend you and point out the mischievous nature of the leftists in the media.
I only mention this because you argue we should make it harder for the leftists to distort what we say and there is no way to prevent it when those trotted out are either willing accomplices to meme being created, neutrals ignorant of the subject who don’t contest the leftist interpretation and bobble-head their way through interview time, or those, like you, who, while sympathetic to the principles underlying a remark such as Rush’s, think it could be said better. Even with the latter, the best defender of what I see as principled conservatism, will still be used to advance our opponent’s designs by either their lumping you as opposed to Rush or in league with him. And they’ll have more than ample opportunity to achieve it by their selection of contrasting guests, persistence in their grilling until they get the unclear comment or by their summation of the interview.
There is a reason why Emanuel plans and manages the debate on a daily basis with prominent media personalities. It is to win such debate overall, in every sector, every day, by controlling the dynamics of each story.
In the end, what you argue for is the most perfect world when it comes to who, what, and how our side commits to the debate, which is impossible, but by maintaining that position you allow our opponents, who, I should note, have no such desire to do so, to concentrate only on those areas where we fail in those efforts.
Rush represents a Thomas Paine to your ideal of having having only Jeffersons arguing for our side. The latter can’t occur. It won’t occur. And even if it did, not all in our ranks, or the many on the sidelines, will be sufficiently motivated by them to rally to their banners. We need Rush just as much as we need you, or AP, Ace (2007 head of the conservative movement, btw), Goldstein, Ed, etc, etc.
We should all hang together, else it is certain Obama — the commander and chief who personally attacks citizens by name, and his conniving sycophants in the White House and the media who take that as the cue to defame — will have us all hang separately.
Dusty on March 8, 2009 at 9:25 AM
like minds
maverick muse on March 8, 2009 at 9:26 AM
-
Yeah… He’s just fine. Most of what he’s going through with the party is the party’s own fault… For being so wussified the last few years.
-
The best line in the article was this one.
-
-
Sans the date and Steele’s name (my mind actually tried to ignore Steele and over-write with the most appropriate name), I almost thought it was about Obama. But the NYT would never print that about the One.
RalphyBoy on March 8, 2009 at 9:29 AM
At at time when the Democrats are going as far as setting up a “Truth Commission” to investigage the GOP I dont think its such a terrific idea for the right to start fighting.
We have a much more common enemy bent on doing far more damage to America than anything Rush Limbaugh can do to the GOP.
Its very sad that we are focused on the wrong thing right now.
William Amos on March 8, 2009 at 9:30 AM
Also Frum doesn’t speak for me
KBird on March 8, 2009 at 9:31 AM
Folks are waking up- and they WANT TO BE LED.
ExTex
———————————————-
As a prescription that is WHAT got us into this mess. Us wanting to be LED is what has enabled the Franks, Dodds, and Gores. We need Americans to be LEADERS and start dismantling the BS that has been erected by the Left over the last 40 years.
Dr. Dog on March 8, 2009 at 9:31 AM
‘Cept when it comes to the statement of Rush that is grossly opined here, your description does not apply.
geckomon on March 8, 2009 at 9:32 AM
And those who do speak think too much. That’s why Rush is so effective. He speaks what he knows without the PC filter. Writers like Paterico can’t come up with the original message, they just want to tell everyone how it could have been better. I’d rather read the comments from the people here at HA. Even the trolls here are more honest in their intent.
genso on March 8, 2009 at 9:33 AM
This is like a new Joe the Plumber. There have been a million and a half storied on hotair for weeks about this damn story, enough with it. Its boring as hell. Its gotten to a point where Allah knows the original story has run its course, so now the news is verious people discussing it. Frum says something, and OMFG, someone disagrees with him, so theres a new story. Now Limbaugh will comment on this on monday, well theres a new story. Its never ending.
thphilli on March 8, 2009 at 9:37 AM
As long as the deranged leftists own the Media, Hollywood, and the educational system they can do, say, and attack anything and anyone they want with almost-zero consequences.
NOTHING is too harsh for conservatives to say about these liberty-stealing, isslamist-hearting freaks of nature.
Never apologize conservatives…..kick them in the balls every chance you get. That’s our drumbeat until victory. In…the…balls.
Let’s roll.
ex-Democrat on March 8, 2009 at 9:39 AM
regarding NBC’s “anchor” Brian Williams responding to the call for more “Good News” (via the A/P, of course). This 2004 study bears reading:
http://www.businessandmedia.org/pdf/2004/Jobs.pdf
If you do glance through it (and bookmark or copy it!), you’ll find NBC (et al) went WAY out of their way to spin the economy of 2004 as dreadful…DESPITE it being virtually identical to the 1996 economy of Bill Clinton!!
[I woulda posted this on the article posted as: “NBC: We need sunshine, lollipops, & rainbows” but there’s no thread there)
Justrand on March 8, 2009 at 9:40 AM
Rush Limbaugh does speak for me and I will not be shamed by the deranged liberals from admitting it!
Actually, Rush has made that statement quite often, and again he is right. Show me anyone who thinks they can run a conservative talk show for 15 hours every week without having their commentary distorted and I’ll show you a damn-fool. Show me someone who disagrees with Rush and I’ll show you someone who rarely [if ever] listens to the show.
Re: Deranged Liberals: I could post examples of this phenomenon for the rest of
the yearmy life as they are that prevalent. Yes, I do realize that not all people who think they are liberals are deranged. Those people are confused by the lies with liberal ties. Why there are so many people who confuse liberalism with christian ideology is simple to figure out. Those people live by the sound bites they get from the Obama Media.Right now Da Bama is working overtime to smear Rush. This is a clear preparation to stifling the conservative message via some renamed Fascist Doctrine which will get passed under the cover of night. Instead of being dragged into this lame-ass argument we should be preparing to fight Da Bama’s socialist takeover.
Don’t be an Obama tool. Get Mr. Limbaugh’s conservative message out to everyone you meet.
I hope Obama fails [insert one of the Obama plans here].
DannoJyd on March 8, 2009 at 9:41 AM
I agree with other commenters – I think Mark Steyn and Walter Williams are outstanding. I enjoy their columns and radio broadcasts.
Philly on March 8, 2009 at 9:42 AM
maverick muse on March 8, 2009 at 9:07 AM
Brilliantly stated mav!!!!!
Great thread loaded with really well articulated feelings. Patterico old buddy; you are a great American, and a good writer. I have enjoyed your thoughts and your ability to articulate them for many years now. If I’m not mistaken, I had the pleasure of meeting with you in Orange County several year ago at a Captains Quarters gathering with Ed Morrisey. That being said, you screwed up here in a major way. Millions of us have drawn the line in the sand, have taken up our positions, are ready for the battle; the enemies of freedom & liberty couldn’t be more clear. No General wages war without missteps and looking back over his shoulder. Rush Limbaugh is our General, and is the one who took this on his shoulders when no others (Republican Politicians) dared to do so. Stand by and watch as Obama & Pelosi ramrod Socialism and the destruction of Capitalism down our throats; stand by and watch as Obama follows through with his redistribution of wealth agenda, or draw the line and lead millions of us into battle.
You sir, tried to make this about yourself, as AllahPundit has done on several occasions. Rush didn’t feed the enemy ammunition, you did sir. Join us in this righteous battle, it is a noble fight we wage at this time in our history. Books will be written about this battle if we manage to win. If we don’t win, the truth will get buried. Don’t stick your finger in the chest of our General and expect us to applaud you.
Taking on Rush Limbaugh is not a noble endeavor. Apologize and join our ranks. We could use you sir.
Keemo on March 8, 2009 at 9:42 AM
@ genso on March 8, 2009 at 9:33 AM
You forget, Limbaugh is in it for the ratings. You never want a person as your spokesman who is in it for the attention. Nothing good can come from it. Also, his show thrives when democrats are in power. Don’t know if I would trust someone with such a financial interest in seeing conservatism fail. Not saying he would act on it, but I would rather not appoint someone with such a conflict of interest to speak for my views.
thphilli on March 8, 2009 at 9:42 AM
As great a communicator as Rush is, I do think he should have said “I want Obama’s socialist policies to fail” as opposed to the long winded explanation the he gave before he said he wanted Obama to fail.
Obama’s disastrous policies so far should be the target not Rush’s choice of words. How many times does this have to happen to Rush before he understands that the media will give no context. Knowing this, he should have worded it in a way that the media would not be able to twist to Obama’s advantage, such as including the word socialist in the “fail” sentence. That would have forced the media to focus on the socialist policies as well.
True_King on March 8, 2009 at 9:43 AM
I wanted to include this link where Levin “debates” Frum.
http://www.manlyrash.com/blog/bring-it-on-levin-v-frum
True_King on March 8, 2009 at 9:43 AM
What station is your nationally syndicated radio show on? I have got to hear more from the guy who gives advice to the best in the business.
csdeven on March 8, 2009 at 9:45 AM
I hope he fails! All the rest is “words, just words”.
BetseyRoss on March 8, 2009 at 9:46 AM
Jeff Goldstein makes the point we should not cowtow to the left on language. Rush’s fans knew what he meant and he then explained it about three dozen times if they missed the nuiance of it.
http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=14472#comment-670561
You guys need to have Jeff G. do a rebuttal to Patterico’s post.
Mr. Joe on March 8, 2009 at 9:47 AM
During the primary POTUS campaign season, I complained about tuning into a radio show only to hear a point being hammered.
Don’t explicate why a point is hammered. I understand.
Nonetheless, listeners have the right and good sense to offer constructive criticism to public figures. And Patterico’s poll is a valid point for consideration now, as clarity next election is going to be our saving grace to victory.
WE ALL SPEAK FOR OURSELVES and can thank Providence for the right and opportunity to do so. Rush need not speak for us as we all speak for ourselves. Patterico can express his stylistic preference without being bombed. When Rush first said the famous/infamous quote in question, I wished he’d have been more refined as that particular quote is a pandora’s box.
Nonetheless, Limbaugh through his own presentational style, is refining our public discourse towards a strong bulwark party platform. He’s not the one and only personality, but he is a GREAT personality and leader of public discourse.
Rush and other radio and blog hosts, through discourse, offer their shows and threads not only for rallying but for refining the GOP platform on the conservative foundation. We can celebrate that the Phoenix Bird spontaneously resurrects given 2008 and these difficult times.
maverick muse on March 8, 2009 at 9:48 AM
Although “bupkis” is used as a word for “nothing” in Yiddish, it literally means “goat pellets.”
Just thought you might be interested to know that.
Attila (Pillage Idiot) on March 8, 2009 at 8:51 AM
Actually, kozebubkis literally means “goat beans or “goat turds” – a more apt description of Frum.
The word “frum” itself, by the way, is actually a common Yiddish term for “deeply observant” – a strict follower of all of the dictates of the Torah. I don’t know what dictates David Frum observes, except for the previously unknown one that means “kick your loyal friends in the ass”.
TexasJew on March 8, 2009 at 9:49 AM
Patterico, if your rephrasing here was used, Rush would still be in the news for his “negativity” and “hubris”. Everyone seems to think they have the better mouse trap when it comes to what was said. Nonsense.
The liberals are masters at spin. End of issue.
Rush achieved both or we would not be here dissecting it all. Rush wanted to do something the politicians haven’t been able to do since the early 90′s and that is get people talking and debating what’s best for the damn COUNTRY!
KUDOS TO RUSH LIMBAUGH!
katy on March 8, 2009 at 9:49 AM
You should move to a red state. You’d be happier.
capitulus on March 8, 2009 at 9:49 AM
Yep, and these wanna be “elite”, spineless pundits don’t realize they are giving ammunition to the fascist regime. They are playing right into their hands.
peacenprosperity on March 8, 2009 at 9:51 AM
Hahaha. That makes no sense. Capitalism is part and parcel to conservatism. I certainly wouldn’t want a failed capitalist to teach me how to deal with the economy. There are enough of those helping Dear Leader now and it gets us theories and nothing else. You either have no concept of conservatism or you aren’t one. Either way, I don’t need someone whispering warnings over my shoulder about who I want to listen to.
Have principles, live by them, and speak to those principles. If those principles are felt by enough people they will be heard and that is evident with Rush. Trying to fit your principles into watered down political correctness is pathetic.
genso on March 8, 2009 at 9:51 AM
Exactly. And PC has been a tactic that the liberals delivered to conservatives like a Trojan Horse.
maverick muse on March 8, 2009 at 9:51 AM
Knowing this, he should have worded it in a way that the media would not be able to twist to Obama’s advantage, such as including the word socialist in the “fail” sentence. That would have forced the media to focus on the socialist policies as well.
True_King on March 8, 2009 at 9:43 AM
Well, he didn’t. But, we knew what he meant. So, the problem are those who go on and on about it, especially those conservatives who hate Limbaugh and what the gop to become donk-lite. Or, those who think there are some mythical group of moderates who will be attracted to conservatism if we act like pussies.
Blake on March 8, 2009 at 9:51 AM
thphilli on March 8, 2009 at 9:42 AM
You obviously don’t know Rush very well. My family is a military family. Our soldiers know Rush and his absolute love and generosity he had given them long before it became popular. Rush is a good business man, don’t get me wrong; however, Rush is also a very passionate and generous man, a solid Conservative, and a man of faith.
Keemo on March 8, 2009 at 9:52 AM
I am very thankful that we have Rush to speak truth to power. If anyone had listened to the Sean Hannity interview or the CPAC speech, they know exactly what he meant and to say otherwise is being disingenuous.
Truth #1: The left (MSM & DNC) will ALWAYS distort what a conservative says (after they call that person a few names of course!)
WE ALL NEED TO SPEAK OUT!
I love my country! I didn’t vote for Obama’s radical change! I HOPE OBAMA, PELOSI, REID FAIL TOO!
libertylady on March 8, 2009 at 9:52 AM
On Rush: I think he made the “liberals are deranged” remarks in defense of these same accusations being made from the left about conservatives.
On Frum: No doubt he is a closet liberal invading the camp. An Alinsky tactic is to put plants in the opposing camp. It is patently obvious that that’s all this is and so anything Frum says is nothing but static, IMO.
PrincipledPilgrim on March 8, 2009 at 9:53 AM
David Frum is a flesh eating plague carrier.
maverick muse on March 8, 2009 at 9:53 AM
There. Fixed it.
unclesmrgol on March 8, 2009 at 9:53 AM
If you’re a conservative and you have NOT listened to Rush Limbaugh, then I have to ask, “why not?” Throughout the campaign, whenever Obama and his handlers didn’t like being nailed for their comments, they always complained that they were taken out of context. But now it’s OK to cast your own interpretation on the meaning of four words?
Rush has made it clear exactly what he means. And *I* hope Obama fails, too – I’ve lived in a social democracy before (Sweden, for 9 years) and there is a LOT that Mr. Obama isn’t telling us – just like there was a lot that he didn’t tell us during the campaign. Just about the point at which your aging body begins to need repair, you will be denied those procedures since younger people have been judged as more needy/deserving. You are welcome to sit on a secondary waiting list (what, in case there’s a sudden disaster and a lot of organs come up for donation?) or take whatever you were able to scrimp from your private saving and buy an operation in a foreign country. Like they do up in Canada.
Rush has also made it clear that there IS no economic recovery plan – that too is smoke and mirrors. Everything they’ve done since Obama took office has resulted in a plummeting market, and they display no concern about the economy, do they? No, they’re too busy ruining other aspects of this country.
Last summer I couldn’t figure out of Obama was ignorant or malevolent, with respects to his plans for America. Now I guess it’s a lot of both. He is deliberately weakening our economy and our military, to bring us in line with the failing “democracies” of Europe.
My advice is to listen to Limbaugh – especially if you think he’s a big blowhard – because you shouldn’t allow other people to dictate your opinions for you, especially if those people are invested in seeing conservatism fail as a driving force in America.
Rush often points out that he is not running for office and doesn’t need to make friends with the media. He can afford to speak his mind – unlike the craven RINOs we have to deal with in Congress.
If Obama was concerned about the cost of healthcare he would work on tort reform (there is no malpractice in Sweden, as we know it). That would trim a lot of fat from medical costs right there. Oh, by the way, there was a Swedish caller on Limbaugh’s show the other day. You conservatives might want to at least read his website overy day. It’s http://www.rushlimbaugh.com, and it’s free.
There’s already too much Newspeak coming from our halls of government – I’m glad that at least one person isn’t afraid to tell it like it is.
disa on March 8, 2009 at 9:54 AM
Frum may be an appropriate name for him. The problem with being deeply observant is that his naval is not the best use of this talent.
katy on March 8, 2009 at 9:55 AM
But Rush can’t without being bombed by patterico, frum, brooks, morrissey and the others? And while these mushy psuedo conservatives have opened up the debate, how about their regular attacks and active participation in the marginalizing of Ann Coulter?
peacenprosperity on March 8, 2009 at 9:56 AM
@ genso on March 8, 2009 at 9:51 AM
Wtf are you talking about. It has nothing to do with capitalism, it has to do with the business of radio. His ratings increase when he has something interesting to talk about, which he does now that Obama is president. His ratings have doubled according to all sources I can find. I agree with his point of view most of the time, but he does have a financial interest in seeing a democrat in the white house.
thphilli on March 8, 2009 at 9:57 AM
Too true. And while it is natural to look for one, it is utterly unnecessary. To a great extent, however, we are letting ourselves be forced to do so, by the incessant harping of our opponents who we leave to the framing of the debate in Alinskist manners.
Dusty on March 8, 2009 at 9:58 AM
Let me be clear. Moderates are like Judas. They will turn on you at the first sign that you are not “cool”. You do not run to the moderates to get their vote. You do not pander to the moderates to get there vote. Go ask any young voter why they voted for Obama. It will not be because he will pick liberal justices, or he will enact health care reform, or any other policy issue. The #1 reason young voters site for voting for Obama is because he is “cool.” Peer pressure won the one the election. As comparison when you asked the young why they voted for Reagan it was NOT because he was “cool” It was because they believed in his convictions of freedom and individual responsibility. Reagan was not a rock star he was a leader. He did not pander to the moderates. No one every suggested that Newt was cool. I never saw a Newt face on a T-shirt. Yet people enmass voted for the Contract with America because of its ideas. Ideas will always trump “cool” Always. The reps tried to pander and they lost. They tried to appease the moderates and they lost, they tried to buy the moderates and they lost. The time of Bush’s greatest popularity was when he stood resolute after the 9/11 attacks and said this will not stand.
The moderates are sheeple they will go where the wind takes them. Rush is not a moderate. He stands for his beliefs no matter the cost.
Allah and pattrico are moderates. It is time that we make that word a bad word.
The problem with the REP party is they have become the face of the elitists. In the movie caddyshack did any one vote for the owner of the yatch to win the golf match. Or did they vote for Rodney dangerfeild?
The moderates like Allah and Pattrico want us to remain the party of Thurston Howe the III instead of the party of Reagan.
unseen on March 8, 2009 at 9:58 AM
Don’t hold back Mav… :)
Keemo on March 8, 2009 at 9:58 AM
Screw him and all of the rest of them. This is why conservatives are reeling now. We know what the liberals think of us and what they want to do with this country. Why are we watering down our philosophies and principles? It seems to me that some are looking for acceptance from liberals, that if they don’t accept our message, our message isn’t valid. Screw that and screw them.
genso on March 8, 2009 at 9:58 AM
LET’S STAY FOCUSED ON THE ENEMY!
WE NEED FRUM AND PATTERICO AND RUSH.
reliapundit on March 8, 2009 at 9:59 AM
Keemo on March 8, 2009 at 9:42 AM
Thank you very much.
I appreciate your note, as your comments add savor to HotAir threads as long as I’ve read here.
maverick muse on March 8, 2009 at 9:59 AM
Comment pages: « Previous 1 2 3 4 … 8 Next »