Obama to commit to the ICC?

posted at 10:00 am on March 7, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

For the past six years, George Bush kept the International Criminal Court at arm’s length, refusing to join it but encouraging its work bringing malefactors to justice.  With the US acting as the world’s policeman, Bush explained, he could not afford to allow the ICC to take jurisdiction over our military personnel and give our enemies a political lever for interference.  Gerald Warner at the Telegraph warns that Barack Obama will reverse that decision — and that could open the door for a string of indictments relating to Iraq and Afghanistan:

But the people who should be feeling really nervous about this development are the citizens of the United States and more especially their armed forces. The signs are that the grandstanding Barack Obama is preparing to subject the United States to the jurisdiction of the ICC. In May, 2002 President Bush withdrew the United States from the Rome Statute which established the ICC. With America heading into global conflict, he had no wish to see US troops arraigned for alleged war crimes before a kangaroo court.

That was a wise decision and probably required in terms of the US Constitution. Already, however, the Obama administration is sending out very different messages. …

Last month US Ambassador Susan Rice, in a closed meeting of the Security Council, supported the ICC, saying it “looks to become an important and credible instrument for trying to hold accountable the senior leadership responsible for atrocities committed in the Congo, Uganda and Darfur”. A week later Ben Chang, spokesman for National Security Advisor General James Jones, took a similar line, telling the Washington Times: “We support the ICC in its pursuit of those who’ve perpetrated war crimes.”

From a purely cynical, Machiavellian point of view, joining the ICC would allow Obama to outsource what Patrick Leahy has demanded in the Senate — some sort of “truth commission” to pillory the Bush administration and raise their own stature.  It would take the matter out of their hands, allowing them some political cover domestically while building credibility with their internationalist friends at home and abroad.  It would certainly fit within their rhetoric over the last few months about “soft power”.

However, Warner doesn’t provide a lot of support for his argument.  The Bush administration didn’t oppose the ICC outright, only any jurisdiction over American actions.  The expressions of support from Rice and Chang don’t lend themselves to an interpretation that the Obama administration plans on surrendering American sovereignty to the ICC, either sooner or later.

Of course, it doesn’t mean he won’t, either.  Obama would face two hurdles if he attempted it: the US Constitution and the political firestorm it would provoke, especially in the military.  The Constitution gives no provision for any foreign court or potentate to have jurisdiction over American military personnel or national leaders for their actions in service to their country.  The courts would likely laugh any suggestion that they should approve the extradition of soldiers or former administration figures to a foreign court, no matter what Obama signs.  The Senate would likely take a dim view of it once their military constituents started phoning Capitol Hill offices to discuss the risk this would place on them and their families.

The odds of this happening seem low.  With a financial crisis taking most of the attention, I doubt the ICC will get much more than lip service for the next four years.

Blowback

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Comment pages: 1 2

I ask again. What is Obama’s plan to remove the military as an obstacle to his goals? Will the sheepdog go quietly?

JiangxiDad on March 7, 2009 at 10:02 AM

Why not join the ICC? We already see how fairly we are treated in other international bodies such as the UN.
: P

jgapinoy on March 7, 2009 at 10:03 AM

If he can, Obama will end up giftwrapping the United States and handing it over on a silver platter to the world.

Liberalism will be the death and dismantling of everything true patriots over the past couple hundred of years have worked so hard for.

Grafted on March 7, 2009 at 10:06 AM

I said it before and I’ll say it again…

whether it be the turning of our military into one big san francisco gay parade

cutting the military budget in half

or this

the american people gave the military a big middle finger when they voted in Obama… and I’m saying this right now while stationed overseas.

THXUSA!

TTheoLogan on March 7, 2009 at 10:06 AM

Obama would face two hurdles if he attempted it: the US Constitution and the political firestorm it would provoke, especially in the military.

…….

Hmmmmm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGHlvnqPdH0&eurl=http://blog.bejohngalt.com/2009/03/05/wow.aspx&feature=player_embedded

artist on March 7, 2009 at 10:06 AM

The odds of this happening seem low. With a financial crisis taking most of the attention, I doubt the ICC will get much more than lip service for the next four years.

God, I pray this is so, but can we see the idiots in charge actually doing this?

“Yes we can!”

Mich_93 on March 7, 2009 at 10:07 AM

Dear U.S. Military,

Yes, the Democrat Party and their Leftist, radical groups really do hate you.

signed,

AOTC
Retired USAF

Agent of the Cross on March 7, 2009 at 10:11 AM

Want to see enlistments and re-enlistment plummet do this. Which I suspect will fit just fine with Obama’s goals for America.

johnsteele on March 7, 2009 at 10:14 AM

Obama would face two hurdles if he attempted it: the US Constitution and the political firestorm

That old rag? Come now, it’s a “living breathing” document, meant to be altered at a whim to suit whatever current desire is flitting through the minds of the dems.

Bishop on March 7, 2009 at 10:15 AM

We will enter the third world within two years. Equality is a wonderful virtue, isn’t it?

Fuquay Steve on March 7, 2009 at 10:15 AM

With a financial crisis taking most of the attention, I doubt the ICC will get much more than lip service for the next four years.

I think just the opposite is true. Yes, the financial crisis is the most critical issue we currently face; however, this administration has done everything it can to ignore it, and prefers to flit from one socialist goalpost to another. Surrendering US sovereignty to the ICC fits right in with the President of the World’s agenda.

IrishEi on March 7, 2009 at 10:16 AM

This is very troubling. While the chances may be low that it will happen, Obama has shown that he is willing to make major moves in other areas while the financial crisis is on going. i.e. Health care reform, outreach to Russia. Are there 67 Senators that would vote for this? Add Franken to the mix and they get closer but right now I don’t think they’d have the votes, assuming this would take a 2/3rds majority.

BrianBoru on March 7, 2009 at 10:17 AM

I hate the ICC. And they don’t accomplish anything. It takes them decades to arrest and bring mass murderers to trial. The trials drag on for years and the sentences are a slap on the hand.

It’s just another way the euroweenie bureaucrats and “human rights activists” milk the system for money — lots of money.

Blake on March 7, 2009 at 10:17 AM

Does this mean Susan Rice can be tried in The Hague for refusing to take UBL from Sudan on several occasions in the 1990′s? Can Sandy Berger be tried, and how can I file charges? Also, how does this help w re-enlistment (particularly in the case of those who have served at Abu Ghraib, Gitmo, and how does it bode for the Haditha Marines?

Lastly, can we try Obama for violating the rights of those still held in Gitmo w out trial, w out charges, and for human rights violations? Can Bill Clinton be tried for his numerous bi-annual bombing campaigns against the Iraqi people in the 1990′s (especially Desert Fox). Can Sen Feinstein and all those CIA and USAF people at the secret base in Pakistan which she revealed all be charged?

Oh yeah, open up that can o worms buddy, but before you do…at least watch the leftist episode of The West Wing where they explained in liberal terms why it’s not a good idea.

scottm on March 7, 2009 at 10:17 AM

I think just the opposite is true. Yes, the financial crisis is the most critical issue we currently face; however, this administration has done everything it can to ignore it, and prefers to flit from one socialist goalpost to another. Surrendering US sovereignty to the ICC fits right in with the President of the World’s agenda.

IrishEi on March 7, 2009 at 10:16 AM

Yep. The ship is going down and all the obamas do is party.

Blake on March 7, 2009 at 10:18 AM

That Pesky U.S Constitution….the backlash to this Administration in 2010 elections is going to be something to behold.

Dr Evil on March 7, 2009 at 10:18 AM

…Obama has shown that he is willing to make major moves in other areas while the financial crisis is on going. i.e. Health care reform, outreach to Russia.

BrianBoru on March 7, 2009 at 10:17 AM

We’re on the same page, Your Highness.

:^)

IrishEi on March 7, 2009 at 10:20 AM

None will have buyer remorse any more than those in the military that voted for Barack Obama.

Speakup on March 7, 2009 at 10:21 AM

Make Lattes Not War

OBAMA

ericdijon on March 7, 2009 at 10:22 AM

I hate the ICC. And they don’t accomplish anything. It takes them decades to arrest and bring mass murderers to trial. The trials drag on for years and the sentences are a slap on the hand.

Blake on March 7, 2009 at 10:17 AM

True, but just wait and see how swiftly and severely they act when they have Americans in their cross hairs!

IrishEi on March 7, 2009 at 10:23 AM

That Pesky U.S Constitution….the backlash to this Administration in 2010 elections is going to be something to behold.

Dr Evil on March 7, 2009 at 10:18 AM

i got $5.00 here that says it wont. something like the ICC is a bit too complicated for ‘real america’ to revolt over.

ernesto on March 7, 2009 at 10:29 AM

I ask again. What is Obama’s plan to remove the military as an obstacle to his goals? Will the sheepdog go quietly?

JiangxiDad on March 7, 2009 at 10:02 AM

They shouldn’t. They also should not enlist, nor should they re-enlist. I also think that Ed’s constitutional understanding is a little fuzzy. A Treaty signed, and ratified, is the equal to Constitutional law by the Constitution. The Supreme Court would probably rule that the Constitution applies here, while our troops are in civillian worlds, the UCMJ applies while they are “On Duty” in normal peacetime operations. Then the ICC applies when the Geneva Convention rules are applied during Wartime operations.

Snake307 on March 7, 2009 at 10:29 AM

Hah, I’m almost hoping they’ll do it. I have a feeling that might be the straw that breaks the camels back, coup! Petraeus riding into DC in Patton form and making the announcement that the new provisional government will be lead by Rush Limbaugh, any person who voted for “The One” will be prosecuted for treason and executed alongside their sham of a Messiah.

BadMojo on March 7, 2009 at 10:30 AM

The odds seem low? Haha, bullshit.

Riposte on March 7, 2009 at 10:30 AM

We’re on the same page, Your Highness.

:^)

IrishEi on March 7, 2009 at 10:20 AM

Great Celtic minds think alike I guess. It must be in the DNA.

BrianBoru on March 7, 2009 at 10:32 AM

The CYA effect would cripple the U.S. military. Soldiers posted on foreign soil would have every reason to question orders. The possibility that a foreign government could haul you away, with the blessing of your Commander in Chief, would cause the chain of command to completely break down.

Limerick on March 7, 2009 at 10:33 AM

Another assault on US sovereignty.

Avoid anything with “international” or “global” attached.

Disturb the Universe on March 7, 2009 at 10:34 AM

You spoke too soon ed. The President of the UN in Iran current is calling for the US to be charged with warcrimes for Iraq and Afghanistan

UPI

Adding to the calls is the official Saudi News paper

Ironic that the warcrimes committed by Saudi Nationals go unnoticed by them.

William Amos on March 7, 2009 at 10:34 AM

I ask again. What is Obama’s plan to remove the military as an obstacle to his goals? Will the sheepdog go quietly?

The military will not go quietly. I have enough to worry about from my own governmnent second guessing our split second life or death decisions from 3,000 miles away. I don’t need a kangaroo court of international libral snobs with an axe to grind doing the same. I see lots of us walking if this ever happens. We may leave the military quietly… but will will not “Go” quietly. Maybe I just listen to too much Glenn Beck…

BadBrad on March 7, 2009 at 10:34 AM

Fits in perfectly with Rangel’s desire to reinstitute the draft. Enlistments plummet, the draft is reinstated, military quality declines,..what’s not to like?

a capella on March 7, 2009 at 10:36 AM

The odds of this happening seem low.

I hope you are correct, Ed. But I see that Chicago Thug as a committed Marxist hell-bent on re-shaping our country in his image. I think he intends to un-do “…the essential constraints that were placed by the Founding Fathers in the Constitution…”

Zorro on March 7, 2009 at 10:36 AM

The odds of this happening seem low. With a financial crisis taking most of the attention, I doubt the ICC will get much more than lip service for the next four years.

NEVER doubt the stupidity incompetence of the leftists when it comes to desolving America’s solvency as a world power. If George Soros wants this then it will come to pass.

DannoJyd on March 7, 2009 at 10:38 AM

BadBrad on March 7, 2009 at 10:34 AM

Give it a few years and I’m betting Beck will be seen as a visionary. A lot of what he points out is uncomfortable to contemplate, but it makes a lot of sense in a historical context.

BadMojo on March 7, 2009 at 10:38 AM

i got $5.00 here that says it wont. something like the ICC is a bit too complicated for ‘real america’ to revolt over.

ernesto on March 7, 2009 at 10:29 AM

Che here hopes Americans are too stupid to put it all together. But 5 dollars isn’t much of a bet, so either he doesn’t believe we’re that stupid or that’s all he has to spare now that Obama has wrecked the economy. Save it for the footlong sandwich.

Disturb the Universe on March 7, 2009 at 10:39 AM

It appears Obama is ready to commit billions of American taxpayer money to the GW pyramid scheme. Just what we need. Let’s throw more money at turd world countries on the basis of some junk science while restricting our own economy. Jeesh, I hate that tool. He’s an idiot.

For all your euroweenie and jew hatin’ news: http://twitter.com/foreignoffice

Blake on March 7, 2009 at 10:41 AM

I don’t know why anone would doubt Obama would do it.

Sue on March 7, 2009 at 10:43 AM

Wow. Just. Wow.

Key West Reader on March 7, 2009 at 10:43 AM

Another assault on US sovereignty.

Avoid anything with “international” or “global” attached.

Disturb the Universe on March 7, 2009 at 10:34 AM

Beautifully said. The United States should subject itself to no one, ever, for any reason.

DrMagnolias on March 7, 2009 at 10:43 AM

DrMagnolias on March 7, 2009 at 10:43 AM

Thanks.

Disturb the Universe on March 7, 2009 at 10:44 AM

Start with investigating Clinton’s war crimes in Yugoslavia and wantonly bombing of the China embassy.
Follow that up with Clinton’s unlawful imprisonment and attacks on the Iraqi people resulting in the deaths of millions of babies.
Then go after Obama for his invasion of Pakistan sovereign territories and approval of torture.

Skywise on March 7, 2009 at 10:45 AM

Here is what Obama said when asked, while a senator.

Yes[.] The United States should cooperate with ICC investigations in a way that reflects American sovereignty and promotes our national security interests[1].

And we all know what that means to Obama.

Sue on March 7, 2009 at 10:45 AM

Military should be deployed to find Barry’s birth certificate.

BHO Jonestown on March 7, 2009 at 10:45 AM

Fits in perfectly with Rangel’s desire to reinstitute the draft. Enlistments plummet, the draft is reinstated, military quality declines,Canada’s population skyrockets..what’s not to like?

a capella on March 7, 2009 at 10:36 AM

BigWyo on March 7, 2009 at 10:45 AM

During the election, all of the democratic candidates and John McCain said we should be in the ICC. McCain, like Obama, tempered his with he wasn’t sure there were enough safeguards in place. I seem to remember Ron Paul saying no, hell no. Or words that meant the same. Almost made me a Ron Paul supporter.

Sue on March 7, 2009 at 10:48 AM

Add this to the rumor that John Kerry might be Gates replacement. If both come to pass, horrible economy or no, you’ll see a massive abandonment of the military, especially in the officer corps.

michaelo on March 7, 2009 at 10:49 AM

And to think that this clown hasn’t even been in office two months yet….

BallisticBob on March 7, 2009 at 10:51 AM

If he can, Obama will end up giftwrapping the United States and handing it over on a silver platter to the world.

Grafted on March 7, 2009 at 10:06 AM

ICC to hand over our military and Kyoto/Global Warming to hand over our wealth.

neuquenguy on March 7, 2009 at 10:55 AM

Everyday that goes by confirms my idea that Obama is pathologically insane.

His hatred for this country is revealing itself with every calculated move to punish it, strangle it, suffocate it and kill it.

What is stunning is how he masks it, as he likes to turn a phrase…in flourishing rhetoric.

He speaks of healing and kills. He speaks of fairness and steals. He speaks of rebuilding while dismantling and half the country cannot/will not see his works.

We have elected an historical figure all right. This man will cause a greater upheaval than any other tyrant in the world’s history.

Obama is an evil genius. I know some of you argue that he is a puppet. He is not. He is diabolical.

katy on March 7, 2009 at 10:58 AM

Add this to the rumor that John Kerry might be Gates replacement. If both come to pass, horrible economy or no, you’ll see a massive abandonment of the military, especially in the officer corps.

michaelo on March 7, 2009 at 10:49 AM

Good grief, I hadn’t heard that! Kerry as SoD? Putin must be overjoyed.

a capella on March 7, 2009 at 11:00 AM

This scumbag will destroy the USA as long as he is in charge. I wonder if the military would be willing to anti up and protect our constitution if the SCUMBAG PREZ. won’t.

CAN WE SAY REVOLT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I will lead.

Mercy4Me on March 7, 2009 at 11:01 AM

Much like his attempt to (perhaps purposefully) beat down the markets to lead to his agenda this could be his (perhaps purposeful) attempt to disarm and demoralize not only the troops but this strong republican base

Defector01 on March 7, 2009 at 11:06 AM

Ed may say the Courts would laugh at any extradition warrant for the ICC, but the Ninth Circuit definitely wouldn’t and many said the SCOTUS wouldn’t approve giving enemy combatants more rights under the Geneva Conventions than regular soldiers had, but they did so in Boumedienne and Hamden. So if this goes through, I would expect a massive exodus of soldiers from the armed forces and re-enlistment rates to go way down.

eaglewingz08 on March 7, 2009 at 11:08 AM

The Executive and Legislative branch need to understand that our military is controlled by civilians. The executive branch, of course, is the CINC through the POTUS. The legislative branch exerts control by controlling the financing of the military, and through the War Powers Act.

The take-away point is that they will become exposed to charges of war crimes. If you don’t believe that, study the Nuremburg Tribunal and more recently, the indictment of the HMFIC in Sudan. Top level government functionaries doing time…….

I guess the Obamster hasn’t had time to study those “unintended consequences”, as is his nature.

BobMbx on March 7, 2009 at 11:08 AM

CAN WE SAY REVOLT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I will lead.

Mercy4Me on March 7, 2009 at 11:01 AM

“Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.” – Declaration of Independence, 04July1776

We are not there yet… not even close. Headed in that direction? Maybe?

BadBrad on March 7, 2009 at 11:09 AM

I would be all in favor of a military coup`de etat. And I think the American people would too.

katy on March 7, 2009 at 11:13 AM

BadBrad on March 7, 2009 at 11:09 AM

The man is systematically destroying the foundations of this 233 year old country.

We’re way beyond for light and transient causes.

This is not just an unpopular President with bad ideas that will set us back. This man is destroying an entire country from every possible root just to mention a few…economic, social, family, faith, health, defense, etc.

We are very close!

katy on March 7, 2009 at 11:18 AM

Fight back.

Key West Reader on March 7, 2009 at 11:18 AM

Im all in favor of letting Obama keep his full 4 years. This is a wake up call to the American people on just how incompentant the democratic party really is.

If we remove Obama the dems will charge we didnt give him enough of a chance to make changes and that the right was too unfair to him.

I say let Obama screw America up and the next Ronald Reagan will step in and save America again. Liberalism will be dead for at least a decade to come.

Sometimes its a good idea to let your opponents show what screwups they really are.

William Amos on March 7, 2009 at 11:20 AM

but then there is this one:

“God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty…
And what country can preserve its liberties, if it’s rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure.”
- Thomas Jefferson

Unless we drastically change course, the THREAT of revolution, ie seeing the pitchforks and torches on the horizon, will be the only thing that reverses the erosion of individual liberty we are experiencing. This drastic violation of sovreignty (along with the LOS Treaty) is just another kick in the nuts to our founding fathers. As for actual revolution… I hope that never happens.

BadBrad on March 7, 2009 at 11:20 AM

Obama…giving away America one day at a time…

All we need now is right after the Obama Administration signs off on this ICC thing, and the Dhimmi Congress endorses it, is to have a handful of soldiers on leave in some foreign port arrested and charged as war criminals…for no other reason than they are members of the US Armed Forces.

Then what?

Think this is not going to happen? I can see a few foreign governments chomping at the bit to do exactly this sort of thing.

Wasn’t Obama some sort of Constitutional lawyer or professor or something?

coldwarrior on March 7, 2009 at 11:20 AM

for light and transient causes

There is nothing light or transient about transforming the country into a socialist state and handing over our sovereignty to entities that seek our destruction.

We are not there yet… not even close. Headed in that direction? Maybe?BadBrad on March 7, 2009 at 11:09 AM

Obama has only been in office less than 2 months. His is an administration rocketing in this direction.

Disturb the Universe on March 7, 2009 at 11:24 AM

I for one would support Obama joining the ICC. The political and judicial backlash would be worth it.

GarandFan on March 7, 2009 at 11:26 AM

“God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.
The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is
wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts
they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,
it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. …
And what country can preserve its liberties, if it’s rulers are not
warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of
resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as
to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost
in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is its natural manure.”

Thomas Jefferson

Disturb the Universe on March 7, 2009 at 11:27 AM

Che here hopes Americans are too stupid to put it all together. But 5 dollars isn’t much of a bet, so either he doesn’t believe we’re that stupid or that’s all he has to spare now that Obama has wrecked the economy. Save it for the footlong sandwich.

Disturb the Universe on March 7, 2009 at 10:39 AM

Give Che a break, $5.00 is all he has left in his 401(k) after his Messiah’s first month.

johnsteele on March 7, 2009 at 11:28 AM

BadBrad on March 7, 2009 at 11:20 AM

Sorry, didn’t see you posted it first.

Disturb the Universe on March 7, 2009 at 11:28 AM

If George Soros Schwartz wants this then it will come to pass.

There, fixed it.

InTheBellyoftheBeast on March 7, 2009 at 11:28 AM

This SOB is now officially a traitor if he does this.

MNDavenotPC on March 7, 2009 at 11:32 AM

The odds of this happening seem low. With a financial crisis taking most of the attention, I doubt the ICC will get much more than lip service for the next four years.

I might have agreed with you 6 weeks ago Ed, but not now. “Attention” to the financial crisis has not kept the messiah from promoting his leftest agenda on healthcare, education, taxes and unions. He just tells the sheepeople that all these things are part of the stimulus and are tied to the economy. I expect him to explain that when the world court locks up hundreds of our solders that that helps the economy by us not having to pay their salaries any longer. Hey, it’s not as much of a stretch as some of his other “stimulus” proposals.

conservnut on March 7, 2009 at 11:33 AM

The Constitution gives no provision for any foreign court or potentate to have jurisdiction over American military personnel or national leaders for their actions in service to their country.

To believe for one second that this administration and this congress would stop from doing something because of a pesky little Constitutional problem – where have you been the last few months?
And if this goes through, my guess would be that the volunteer system we have now will die a very quick death.
Constitution……. what Constitution?

JeffinOrlando on March 7, 2009 at 11:37 AM

I see Ed is affording Obama the benefit of doubt yet again as it seems are the majority of Americans. Keep hoping things will get better, click those heels together and say theres nothing like change. There is ample evidence that Obama is determined to transform America into a EU type social democracy, the capitulation to world courts fits right in.

I can’t see that forest because all those trees are in the way….must be the magical mocha mind control machine!

dmann on March 7, 2009 at 11:43 AM

wasn’t this asshat sworn to “uphold the Constitution of the United States”?

I believe this is grounds for impeachment.
period.

UNREPENTANT CONSERVATIVE CAPITOLIST on March 7, 2009 at 11:48 AM

Once again I smell Soros’ used panties.

ex-Democrat on March 7, 2009 at 11:56 AM

I would be all in favor of a military coup`de etat. And I think the American people would too.

katy on March 7, 2009 at 11:13 AM

The tides sweeping over us aren’t new to the world. They’ve all happened elsewhere before. In all the cases, the military plays a role.

JiangxiDad on March 7, 2009 at 12:14 PM

OK, now I am starting to get just a little perturbed.

Sammy316 on March 7, 2009 at 12:16 PM

f he can, Obama will end up giftwrapping the United States and handing it over on a silver platter to the world.

Liberalism will be the death and dismantling of everything true patriots over the past couple hundred of years have worked so hard for.

Grafted on March 7, 2009 at 10:06 AM

Only if true patriots are willing to set aside the sacrifices, the declaration of Independence, the Consititution and lay down arms in order to allow him his goals.

Viper1 on March 7, 2009 at 12:18 PM

I took an oath to defend the constitution of the united states… unlike the rest of the clowns in washington, I actually read it.

BadBrad on March 7, 2009 at 12:23 PM

dmann on March 7, 2009 at 11:43 AM

I was giving him slack until he did his quasi State of the Union address and unveiled the “cap and trade” system followed by the budget full of tax hikes. After that he went from benefit of the doubt to no confidence.

txaggie on March 7, 2009 at 12:25 PM

The courts would likely laugh any suggestion that they should approve the extradition of soldiers or former administration figures to a foreign court, no matter what Obama signs.

I wish I could agree with you. But given recent behaviour by the courts, I can’t.

Remember it was Ginsburg who wrote that justices need to look to foreign ways and constitutions when deciding how to vote on cases.

MarkTheGreat on March 7, 2009 at 12:30 PM

JiangxiDad on March 7, 2009 at 12:14 PM

I would salute President Petraeus

katy on March 7, 2009 at 12:44 PM

Isn’t this something that Congress would have to agree too and the Supreme Court would also have a look over?

- The Cat

MirCat on March 7, 2009 at 12:50 PM

Below is an instructive Heritage Foundation regarding the Clinton Administration’s but mostly the Bush Administration’s policy regarding the ICC. It provides a detailed explanation as to why we should not join the it.
http://www.heritage.org/research/internationalorganizations/bg1830.cfm

youngTXcon on March 7, 2009 at 12:55 PM

MirCat on March 7, 2009 at 12:50 PM

This Congress? This Congress? They’d vote for it in a heartbeat. After all, it is good for Michelle’s children.

coldwarrior on March 7, 2009 at 12:56 PM

youngTXcon on March 7, 2009 at 12:55 PM
From the article I posted, the Rome Statute of the ICC is dangerous & contrary to our interests. See:
http://www.un.org/children/conflict/keydocuments/english/romestatuteofthe7.html

youngTXcon on March 7, 2009 at 12:59 PM

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the Land; and the judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur…

So, we have that the Constitution, Federal law, and Treaties are of more importance than state constitutions and state laws, but of the former three, United States law is subordinate to the Constitution, but Treaties stand coequal to the Constitution in their weight.

We have further that the President must have the advice and consent of at least two thirds of the Senate to subject the United States to any treaty obligation.

And, any act under a treaty is subject to the review of the Supreme Court.

It’s a mixed bag here, even in the presence of a treaty. In Missouri v. Holland, the court decided in favor of obligations related to the Migratory Bird Treaty which restricted hunting in Missouri, and, in Medellin v. Texas, we find that there are limits on treaty obligations in the absence of enabling federal legislation.

So, Obama is welcome to bring forward the ICC and try to get his two thirds vote. Then, after the two thirds vote, he will have to modify the Unified Code to allow transfer of our soldiers to a third country with or without benefit of courts martial. It’s a very long path to victory for him.

unclesmrgol on March 7, 2009 at 1:58 PM

Im all in favor of letting Obama keep his full 4 years. This is a wake up call to the American people on just how incompentant the democratic party really is.
William Amos on March 7, 2009 at 11:20 AM

+100

Meanwhile I exercise my guns and religion.

Flying Israeli

Caststeel on March 7, 2009 at 2:37 PM

Obama would face two hurdles if he attempted it: the US Constitution and the political firestorm it would provoke, especially in the military. The Constitution gives no provision…

When has the Constitution prevented this government from doing anything? This past stimulus bill, as well as the EPA, Dep. of Education, Dep. of Health and Human Services, Dep. of Energy, Dep. of Housing and Urban Development, Dep. of Agriculture… Sure, as if the Constitution means anything to most of the fools in Washington.
If this country were to ever commit to the ICC, then kiss 90% of the military good-bye.

Send_Me on March 7, 2009 at 3:42 PM

What, so far, has this administration attempted that HAS been pro-America? This would just be more of the same meme…

Gohawgs on March 7, 2009 at 3:58 PM

Instead of flowers in their rifle barrels, Obama will have our military marching with condoms on the barrels, and their spare hand covering their backsides…

Maquis on March 7, 2009 at 4:10 PM

Maquis on March 7, 2009 at 4:10 PM

Condoms over the rifle barrel is a pretty common practice in the field…keeps dirt out, and doesn’t effect the ballistics of the first shots fired.

But, I do get your point, I think. :-)

coldwarrior on March 7, 2009 at 4:14 PM

Condoms over the rifle barrel is a pretty common practice in the field…keeps dirt out, and doesn’t effect the ballistics of the first shots fired.

I kinda suspected they might be used thusly, but I was a knuckle-dragger in the AF so I didn’t learn those tricks.

Perhaps I should have said Obama would have them parading in the streets in such condition? :)

Maquis on March 7, 2009 at 4:20 PM

I have been awfully fond of our constitutional republic, but I am now desirous of a military coup.

myrenovations on March 7, 2009 at 5:43 PM

Just as interesting is why the UK papers, particularly the Telegraph, seem to be the only people reporting US news any longer. The others just cheer lead or agonize over gray hair (the man is 47 and in reality the lack of gray during the campaign was more astounding then it’s sudden appearance on President Grecian’s head!)

LifeTrek on March 7, 2009 at 6:45 PM

will somebody in the army please arrest mister teleprompter before he sells us out to our friends overseas.sorry i misspelled friends it should be fiends.

wade underhile on March 7, 2009 at 7:16 PM

With a financial crisis taking most of the attention, I doubt the ICC will get much more than lip service for the next four years.

Seen the news lately Ed?

Can we tamp down the calls for insurrection, please? Nothing’s been done that can’t be undone in 2010.

Hey ernesto, if the “real America” thing bothers you, did it bother you when it was every other phrase out of Al Gore’s mouth?

DrSteve on March 7, 2009 at 7:51 PM

Think this is not going to happen? I can see a few foreign governments chomping at the bit to do exactly this sort of thing.

Wasn’t Obama some sort of Constitutional lawyer or professor or something?

coldwarrior on March 7, 2009 at 11:20 AM

if we sign onto the ICC, I think your scenario is entirely probable; I’m also confident they’d issue indictments of Cheney and Bush.

Red State State of Mind on March 7, 2009 at 8:18 PM

Want to see enlistments and re-enlistment plummet do this. Which I suspect will fit just fine with Obama’s goals for America.

johnsteele on March 7, 2009 at 10:14 AM

As someone who has a female child only 5 years from turning 18, this scares me. If our military enlistments get low enough, we will see Charles Rangel talking about the draft again, and Obama, knowing how much more control can be asserted on draftees, will do just that. Of course, because women are supposed to be “equal in every way” with men, they will be drafted also, and not just into desk jobs, but combat as well. I see it coming, scares the crap outta me!! It is bad enough to be drafted and not be able to join the military just because you have pride in your country, but to have to serve under this insolent jerk, in combat, would be torture for a young girl who only wants to go to college and start a career.

Susanboo on March 7, 2009 at 8:39 PM

The current situation has me spending a lot of time thinking about an oath I took…I swore to defend the constitution against “ALL enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC.” The question that comes to mind is who decides who a domestic enemy is?

I want to make it clear that I am not advocating anything. I post this as merely an academic point of discussion.

jwp1964 on March 7, 2009 at 9:17 PM

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