That was a very difficult call. I am a Catholic. I do not believe in abortion on demand, yet something inside of me says that allowing a 9 year old to carry twins to term would be harmful to her and the children. Her young body could not handle carrying twins. However, on the other side of the issue is an Archbishop who is following through that all life is sacred. He sees it in black and white with no shades of grey. The mother is in a difficult position because she could lose her daughter as well as the grandchildren – then there is the psychological damage that has been done to this little girl.

We do not know all of the facts about the case and to be sure that anti-Catholic bigots love it when the Church weighs in on such a situation. It gives them the opportunity to vent, yet again over something that really should have been thought through in private.

That poor child needs our pity, and should not be used as a political football. Shame on those who are bringing up her predicament to have a go at the Catholic Church.

Now, I do hope that the Baptists and other Christian churches will join with the Catholics in a fight over this issue. Get over the sectarianism and treat this as a single issue – do not let them introduce this bill.

Abortion is equal and worse to/than slavery.

ericdijon on March 7, 2009 at 2:55 PM

I’d agree that, practically speaking, that is the RCC position.

dedalus on March 7, 2009 at 2:23 PM
This is from the Catholic Encyclopedia on Aquinas and the Aristotelian aristotlianism influence:

I can appreciate where your thoughts are rooted, however please understand mine.

“Aristotle divides mankind into two distinct species that of freeman and that of slaves.” – Jeremy Bentham (1748-1832)

Abortion is equal and worse to/than slavery.

Here’s a fair reference that picks the story up around 140 AD.

ericdijon on March 7, 2009 at 1:58 PM

I’ll read up on it. I’m not very familiar with the early Christian apologists.

At the end of his life, Aquinas questioned all that he had written. However, the Church canonized him and his writings have been required reading in Catholic seminaries for hundreds of years.

This is from the Catholic Encyclopedia on Aquinas and the Aristotelian influence:

The books that exercised the greatest influence on his mind were the Bible, the Decrees of the councils and of the popes, the works of the Fathers, Greek and Latin, especially of St. Augustine, the “Sentences” of Peter Lombard, the writings of the philosophers, especially of Plato, Aristotle, and Boethius. If from these authors any were to be selected for special mention, undoubtedly they would be Aristotle, St. Augustine, and Peter Lombard. In another sense the writings of St. Thomas were influenced by Averroes, the chief opponent whom he had to combat in order to defend and make known the true Aristotle.

dedalus on March 7, 2009 at 12:45 PM

It certainly can be generally said that great thinkers are inspired by previous great thinkers. Perhaps you are thinking of apologists, of which many are Greek.

The Aquinas – Aristotle influence you write about takes the form of repudiation instead of alignment.

Here’s a fair reference that picks the story up around 140 AD.

I brought this up with the Executive Director yeasterday and we had a discussion about it. When we talked about shutting down the hospitals, I suggested that the government would probably step in and nationalize them to keep them running. She breathed a sigh of relief and said, Good!

We are doomed.

Oh? I seem to be remiss; which of the seven doctors of the church am I forgetting is Greek? Was from Greece? Lived in Greece? Used Greek in a sentence?

ericdijon on March 7, 2009 at 12:23 PM

The Apostle Paul was from a Hellenistic city that had been controlled by Greece. He could speak Greek, and was more influential than each of the later church doctors.

Aquinas was greatly influenced by Greek philosophers, especially Aristotle.

http://wdtprs.com/blog/2009/03/connecticut-state-legislature-introduced-bill-10982009/

dedalus on March 7, 2009 at 11:36 AM

Oh? I seem to be remiss; which of the seven doctors of the church am I forgetting is Greek? Was from Greece? Lived in Greece? Used Greek in a sentence?

Oh? I am mistaken over what I supposed from the handle “dedalus” as in the mythological MacGyver?

Interesting that one that can both identify with Greek Mythology and speak on behalf of all Catholics.

ericdijon on March 7, 2009 at 9:43 AM

That is a claim I didn’t make.

Catholic theology was greatly influenced by Greek thinking.

1. Obama is now considering reversing the conscience policy put into place by Pres. Bush. Supposedly there is public comment open for 30 days. Call the White House, tell everyone to call. I have painted on the sides of my truck “Tell Obama – Doctors should not be forced to Abort Babies 202 456-1111.

2. Sen. Sam Brownbeck (a supposed pro-life Catholic) is going to vote for Kathleen Sebelius (sp) for HHS. She is ardently pro-choice who has run interference for a Partial Birth Abortionist. she wines and dines him at the gov’s mansion and has run interference for him at the state level. I called Sen. Brownbeck’s office the other day and was told that he has carefully considered this issue but will still vote for Sebelius’ confirmation while remaining committed to pro life causes. HOGWASH (this is the place where I wish I could swear). I think that Brownbeck’s feet need to be held to the fire. While I realize that the Senate will approve Sebelius for HHS I don’t think that anyone can justify a vote for her and still be ardently pro life. sorry does not compute…. I hear that Brownbeck is considering a run for Gov. Perhaps an outpouring of displeasure is needed here.

3. While I am not Catholic I applaud them for their stance on this issue. The Catholics are working very hard to protect the rights of the unborn and I very much admire them for it. Whenever I am in the neighborhood of our local Planned Parenthood, I stop and pray with the women there who stand up every day after day after day. I know it’s not much but a little prayer can go along way.

The Catholic Church will refuse to pay tribute to the Bedcrapper. The Bedcrapper can send the FBI to arrest them.

More martyers.

Impeach Obama.

hope the Catholic Church does shut down the hospitals. Cut off the nose to spite the face. Those hospitals are money making machines for the churches that need it.

Thacker, do you have links to support that statement?

AH_C on March 7, 2009 at 9:59 AM

Good E.Q. and recap.

When will we see attorneys specifically represent the fetus in these trials?

ThackerAgency on March 7, 2009 at 2:46 AM

There is a similarity of your comments to your paused video-head. My suggestion would be that you add a whistling feature. Rig up an event between mouse.hover and mouse.move while video.paused and it will be trick!

I think you are leaving out the damage the judiciary could do here. Woman walks into hospital and wants an abortion. Hospital says “no, it’s against our policies”. Woman sues hospital for damages — actual and punitive. Court finds that hospital denied woman her civil rights under FOCA.

Court must find so, because if the court found otherwise, it would be denying and interfering with that basic “right”.

unclesmrgol on March 6, 2009 at 8:01 PM

Eh, there would be legal ways around that, I’m sure. Not every hospital offers every medical procedure. I just don’t read the statute as saying that every single hospital in the US is going to have to set up an abortion clinic.

Perhaps NARAL and the Obama administration would overreach that badly, but if they do it will be political suicide for them. The majority of Americans are moderately pro-choice, but that doesn’t mean that they would support that kind of assault on religious hospitals. Somebody up top mentioned Baptist hospitals also. There are lots of Baptist hospitals throughout the South that would be in exactly the same position as Catholic hospitals. Folks aren’t gonna like it if Uncle Sam shuts down all the hospitals in their town.

funky chicken on March 6, 2009 at 8:29 PM

The very liberal people said that they were convinced that people and institutions ould not be forced to perform abortions against moral objections. They thought that was wrong, and they thought most Americans would agree.

We shall see.

anne on March 6, 2009 at 9:43 PM

Anne, I don’t think we have to wait and see, just plan on it. Just look at the military for precedent.

Are there any HA’ers that can vouch for how military doctors were forced to provide abortion? This blew up early in the Clinton admin, around ‘93.

IIRC, until then, either the military never provided abortions in their hospitals, referring them to local civilian hospitals. Or the military hospitals might have provided it, but only if a dr volunteered to do so.

As I was in Berlin at the time, I seem to recall that this also blew up on another tangent. A soldier filed to force the military to perform an abortion; because being forced to carry the child to term would violate her “civil rights”. The rationale was that she “could” have gotten the abortion had she been back in the States. However, being past the cut-off date for abortions under the German system, she was being deprived of her right to get it done.

Nowadays, seems one could get a partial birth abortion both on the DOD dime & premises.

Exit question, what of the right of the medical staff NOT to perform abortions as it would violate their morals & conscience?

First time post!

Here is a section from Pope John Paul II ‘evangelium vitae’ from 1995 which is talking about moral and civil law in respect to abortion. (and euthanasia)

http://www.vatican.va/edocs/ENG0141/__PS.HTM

uno2three on March 6, 2009 at 8:18 PM

You are a blessed commenter for this post.

“To refuse to take part in committing an injustice is not only a moral duty; it is also a basic human right.”

Egro: Voting for OBAMA is a mortal sin.