Will FOCA force the Catholic Church out of healthcare?
posted at 4:27 pm on March 6, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
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We have asked this question before, on several occasions during the campaign, and now the media has begun to ask it as well. With the Catholic Church providing over 600 hospitals nationwide, servicing mostly needy areas, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch wonders aloud today whether the Freedom of Choice Act pushed now by Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-NY) would tear an irreparable hole in the nation’s safety net:
A proposed bill promising major changes in the U.S. abortion landscape has Roman Catholic bishops threatening to close Catholic hospitals if the Democratic Congress and White House make it law.
The Freedom of Choice Act failed to get out of subcommittee in 2004, but its sponsor is poised to refile it now that former Senate co-sponsor Barack Obama occupies the Oval Office.
A spokesman for Rep. Jerrold Nadler, D-N.Y., said the legislation “is among the congressman’s priorities. We expect to reintroduce it sooner rather than later.”
A NARAL spokesperson told the P-D that any suggestion of passing FOCA was just a pro-life scare tactic. However, Barack Obama himself told Planned Parenthood that FOCA would be his first priority as President:
Some of the bishops in the church want to use an incremental approach to FOCA rather than the final option of shutdowns. They favor a civil-disobedience approach, daring the government to come after them for refusing to perform abortions. That keeps the hospitals open and their consciences clear. These advocates don’t believe that Obama would dare come after them in court, but I suspect they’re being more than a little naive — as are anyone who gets fooled by NARAL’s dismissive take on the seriousness of Nadler’s effort.
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First time post!
Here is a section from Pope John Paul II ‘evangelium vitae’ from 1995 which is talking about moral and civil law in respect to abortion. (and euthanasia)
http://www.vatican.va/edocs/ENG0141/__PS.HTM
uno2three on March 6, 2009 at 8:18 PM
Please explain to me why you feel a very rare circumstance should be used to subvert the right of the vast majority of the unborn. By far, the majority of abortions are performed on women that became pregnant without any illegal act and without the possibility of unusual danger if the child is carried to term.
If we insisted on absolutes far fewer would be harmed in outlawing abortion than in allowing unrestricted abortions. How many of the murdered unborn would have made this world a better place? Where does this unborn child get to have it’s choice heard?
I saw a child’s T-shirt that I had to laugh at. It read “Now that I’ve been born I’m pro choice.”
Kind of sums it up for me.
conservativecaveman on March 6, 2009 at 8:23 PM
Eh, there would be legal ways around that, I’m sure. Not every hospital offers every medical procedure. I just don’t read the statute as saying that every single hospital in the US is going to have to set up an abortion clinic.
Perhaps NARAL and the Obama administration would overreach that badly, but if they do it will be political suicide for them. The majority of Americans are moderately pro-choice, but that doesn’t mean that they would support that kind of assault on religious hospitals. Somebody up top mentioned Baptist hospitals also. There are lots of Baptist hospitals throughout the South that would be in exactly the same position as Catholic hospitals. Folks aren’t gonna like it if Uncle Sam shuts down all the hospitals in their town.
funky chicken on March 6, 2009 at 8:29 PM
Exactly! This is yet another federal power grab away from the states. Obama is doing his best to kill federalism.
neuquenguy on March 6, 2009 at 8:53 PM
Welcome to Hot Air. Thank you for the link.
neuquenguy on March 6, 2009 at 8:54 PM
Please show me where I said anything at all about any abortion other than this one. To save you the time, I didn’t. I said that I think the church’s stance on this particular case is shameful.
SnarkVader on March 6, 2009 at 8:54 PM
Yeah, and those who aren’t 100% against it are not being true to their faith. Period. They can rationalize it all they want, but they are not being true Catholics.
Kensington on March 6, 2009 at 9:08 PM
I interpreted your continued hammering of this case as a prochoice stance. Am I mistaken? If so, my apologies. If not, you haven’t answered my question.
conservativecaveman on March 6, 2009 at 9:33 PM
How the Hell Slo-Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi can walk into a Catholic church is beyond me. Besides the larger abortion issue, the latest legislative charity provisions will reduce charitable givings at a time when they are needed most. Religious preferences aside, Catholic charities do a tremendous amount of good work.
Now this.
Oh that’s right, in this Brave New World we won’t need charities and we certainly won’t need private hospitals. Both were on the White House summit recommendation short list for obsolescence.
moxie_neanderthal on March 6, 2009 at 9:37 PM
A few weeks ago I got into a political discussion at work. Most people there self identify as very liberal, and worship at the alter of Obama.
I work in health care, and one day as a topic of conversation in the OR I asked everyone what they thought would happen if all the Catholic Hospitals shut their doors. They asked “why would they do that” and I talked about concerns of FOCA.
The very liberal people said that they were convinced that people and institutions ould not be forced to perform abortions against moral objections. They thought that was wrong, and they thought most Americans would agree.
We shall see.
anne on March 6, 2009 at 9:43 PM
The Jacobins are running the show! Moral Objections be damned. You may be coerced or you can come along peacefully, the choice is yours.
moxie_neanderthal on March 6, 2009 at 9:59 PM
Continued? I posted twice.
SnarkVader on March 6, 2009 at 9:59 PM
Eminent domain can be solved with a suitable application of 200lbs of explosives.
Its easier than you think.
And the re-building will be rather expensive.
Cromagnum on March 6, 2009 at 9:59 PM
I think that many of these Catholics will say that they are pro-choice but are not pro-abortion. How they rationize this boggles my mind.
docdave on March 6, 2009 at 10:02 PM
Fixed it for you.
johnsteele on March 6, 2009 at 10:28 PM
Continued? I posted twice.
SnarkVader on March 6, 2009 at 9:59 PM
Yes, once for the death of each unborn child. If you are pro-abortion in this case, you are pro-abortion, period. There is no picket fence when it comes to taking innocent and helpless human life. The tragic circumstances involved in the conception of these twins lies squarely at the feet of the abusive “step-father” and the mother. No one can tell me that a mother who is even half-way alert would not know that such a despicable act(s) were being perpetrated by this man that she freely let into her home.
So, we have a nine year old who has been traumatized through incest and is now pregnant. Let’s compound that trauma by aborting her children. Yes, HER CHILDREN. You see, an abortion will not “un-rape” her. An abortion will not make her an “un-mother”. It will however make her a party, not through her own fault at all, to murder. She has enough horror to live with – why should you want her to live with murder?
By the way, abortion is a very dangerous procedure, much more so than childbirth. Abortionists are mostly bottom feeding, incompetent alkies, addicts, porn lovers and molesters. (See a book called LIME 5 for detailed info on this.)
This young girl could die from complications of abortion, or be left sterile and of course mentally shattered to boot. This girl needs an advocate for life, and expert medical and mental health care, not an abortionist’s knife. I can only imagine the wreck she will feel herself at sixteen, thanks once again to her caring “mother”.
tigerlily on March 7, 2009 at 12:03 AM
that is obama and pelozis plan
force all to either start killing babies (unborn and born)
or be thrown in jail..
or close..
either way they will blame the church
not obamas assinine policies..
morons
and you idiots voted for this cretin
jcila on March 7, 2009 at 12:58 AM
I hope the Catholic Church does shut down the hospitals. Cut off the nose to spite the face. Those hospitals are money making machines for the churches that need it.
If the Catholics don’t want to provide the service, there are plenty of entities capable. I am staunchly against abortion, but this is a bluff that’s easy to call.
Catholics will NEVER shut down their cash cows. If they do, there are plenty others willing to provide the care that hospitals provide for the community.
ThackerAgency on March 7, 2009 at 2:46 AM
If the Catholics don’t want to provide the service, there are plenty of entities capable. I am staunchly against abortion, but this is a bluff that’s easy to call.
Catholics will NEVER shut down their cash cows. If they do, there are plenty others willing to provide the care that hospitals provide for the community.
ThackerAgency on March 7, 2009 at 2:46 AM
Sorry, that’s not how they work. The 600 Catholic hospitals are run by the Daughters of Charity, making it the largest women’s run organization in the world. People who go to Catholic hospitals do it on a pay-if-you-can basis, with the poor having to pay nothing. Many Surgeons and Doctors of all stripes work pro-bono, taking money if the patients have insurance and not accepting the balance if the insurance doesn’t pay it all.
Money maker? Catholic Charities put millions into those hospitals, many with nothing in return.
Alright, take away those hospitals, and while you’re at it, the 2500 free clinics as well. The Catholic Archbishops have already said they will not only shut down the hospitials they will not sell them to be used in something as morally indefensible as abortion. And when the 80 million Americans who are seen by Catholic hospitals try to find somewhere else to go, when people who can’t pay look for someone who can pay for them, think about it as we taxpayers dig into our pockets to pay for something that at one time cost us nothing.
itsspideyman on March 7, 2009 at 5:10 AM
I didn’t read through all of the responses so, sorry if this has already been raised.
Has anyone else considered that once the government takes over health care anyway, they will slowly edge out Catholic churches & charities via the (imaginary) separation of church & state thing anyway? Just like they are doing for universities in this recent bill…stipulating that no stimulus money can be used anywhere on campus where religious activities take place? Kind of seems like they are going after all religious institutions on a number of fronts.
Cheesestick on March 7, 2009 at 5:29 AM
Cheesestick on March 7, 2009 at 5:29 AM
I think you’re on to part of it. It’s a three prong approach to get the Feds in and the church out.
Pass FOCA, stop government funding re: Medicare/Medicaid and let the judicial system decide the rest – naturally the nut cases will sue the hospitals/clinics.
The longer the debates and legal fights go on, the better the PR for the Obama admin – a chance for the Liberals to show all the ways the church is trying to get government money but oppress the people and force their beliefs on them. You won’t see a single interview on the MSM of a grateful recipient of care, of a non-Catholic using the services who is against abortion and who supports the church’s right to operate their non-profit as they choose (choice – funny thing that.)
Until Americans begin to again view the human ability to reproduce as a responsibility and not a right, abortion on demand will continue to be demanded. All we can do is teach our children as best we can. Self-control is free, birth control is cheap. Abortion as birth control is indefensible.
gopmom on March 7, 2009 at 7:11 AM
There is much more to being Catholic than a vote for a particular politician. Few are 100% in line with what the Vatican teaches, ultimately God will decide.
dedalus on March 7, 2009 at 8:14 AM
They realize that many Americans don’t share their faith and that not every intrinsic evil identified by the Vatican can be legislated against in U.S. law.
dedalus on March 7, 2009 at 8:28 AM
I pray the Bishops will stand up to this immorality, and neither give in nor be forced to close the hospitals. However, if ‘The Inflated One’ and his Rahm-shirt lackeys push against the Church, I think they will have no option but to refuse to comply, their own “Non serviate!” against the demonic forces working through those whose sacrament is abortion. How anyone cannot see this question as the great moral evil of contemporary time, greater than slavery, will cause those in the future to look back with the same astonishment we do at slavery saying, “How could they not see that?” What will you say on the other side Barak?
Broadsword on March 7, 2009 at 8:34 AM
Obama :Once FOCA is passed we can start harvesting babies for their stem cells. Where is the fifth column? We need to place ourselves between the gov’t and the innocents. It is time – I am sure we need to do this, I’m just not sure how and where. Any guidance?
Fuquay Steve on March 7, 2009 at 8:39 AM
Another thing…the only thing the Obama-shirts want is power. I say again, everything they do is “weighed in the nicety of the scales of power”, (paraphrasing a certain wizard), and it will not matter to them one whit what persons or moralities obstruct their desire for power.
Broadsword on March 7, 2009 at 8:41 AM
Interesting that one that can both identify with Greek Mythology and speak on behalf of all Catholics.
ericdijon on March 7, 2009 at 9:43 AM
You are a blessed commenter for this post.
“To refuse to take part in committing an injustice is not only a moral duty; it is also a basic human right.”
Egro: Voting for
OBAMAis a mortal sin.ericdijon on March 7, 2009 at 9:53 AM
Anne, I don’t think we have to wait and see, just plan on it. Just look at the military for precedent.
Are there any HA’ers that can vouch for how military doctors were forced to provide abortion? This blew up early in the Clinton admin, around ‘93.
IIRC, until then, either the military never provided abortions in their hospitals, referring them to local civilian hospitals. Or the military hospitals might have provided it, but only if a dr volunteered to do so.
As I was in Berlin at the time, I seem to recall that this also blew up on another tangent. A soldier filed to force the military to perform an abortion; because being forced to carry the child to term would violate her “civil rights”. The rationale was that she “could” have gotten the abortion had she been back in the States. However, being past the cut-off date for abortions under the German system, she was being deprived of her right to get it done.
Nowadays, seems one could get a partial birth abortion both on the DOD dime & premises.
Exit question, what of the right of the medical staff NOT to perform abortions as it would violate their morals & conscience?
AH_C on March 7, 2009 at 9:59 AM
There is a similarity of your comments to your paused video-head. My suggestion would be that you add a whistling feature. Rig up an event between mouse.hover and mouse.move while video.paused and it will be trick!
ericdijon on March 7, 2009 at 10:03 AM
Good E.Q. and recap.
When will we see attorneys specifically represent the fetus in these trials?
ericdijon on March 7, 2009 at 10:12 AM
Thacker, do you have links to support that statement?
Tomblvd on March 7, 2009 at 10:44 AM
Let the Bedcrapper in Chief sue the Catholic hospitals.
The Catholic Church will refuse to pay tribute to the Bedcrapper. The Bedcrapper can send the FBI to arrest them.
More martyers.
Impeach Obama.
NoDonkey on March 7, 2009 at 10:50 AM
At my newphew’s confirmation a few years back, the bishop gave a barn-burner of a homily that included the admonishment that you cannot call yourself Catholic if you support abortion. I loved it! My sister told me at the reception, the parents were mortified about that sermon…guilty conscience, I guess.
Sam Adams on March 7, 2009 at 10:51 AM
Sorta off post here but:
1. Obama is now considering reversing the conscience policy put into place by Pres. Bush. Supposedly there is public comment open for 30 days. Call the White House, tell everyone to call. I have painted on the sides of my truck “Tell Obama – Doctors should not be forced to Abort Babies 202 456-1111.
2. Sen. Sam Brownbeck (a supposed pro-life Catholic) is going to vote for Kathleen Sebelius (sp) for HHS. She is ardently pro-choice who has run interference for a Partial Birth Abortionist. she wines and dines him at the gov’s mansion and has run interference for him at the state level. I called Sen. Brownbeck’s office the other day and was told that he has carefully considered this issue but will still vote for Sebelius’ confirmation while remaining committed to pro life causes. HOGWASH (this is the place where I wish I could swear). I think that Brownbeck’s feet need to be held to the fire. While I realize that the Senate will approve Sebelius for HHS I don’t think that anyone can justify a vote for her and still be ardently pro life. sorry does not compute…. I hear that Brownbeck is considering a run for Gov. Perhaps an outpouring of displeasure is needed here.
3. While I am not Catholic I applaud them for their stance on this issue. The Catholics are working very hard to protect the rights of the unborn and I very much admire them for it. Whenever I am in the neighborhood of our local Planned Parenthood, I stop and pray with the women there who stand up every day after day after day. I know it’s not much but a little prayer can go along way.
kringeesmom on March 7, 2009 at 11:25 AM
That is a claim I didn’t make.
Catholic theology was greatly influenced by Greek thinking.
dedalus on March 7, 2009 at 11:36 AM
Oh? I seem to be remiss; which of the seven doctors of the church am I forgetting is Greek? Was from Greece? Lived in Greece? Used Greek in a sentence?
Oh? I am mistaken over what I supposed from the handle “dedalus” as in the mythological MacGyver?
ericdijon on March 7, 2009 at 12:23 PM
I’m quite sure that Obama is hoping that the Catholics will close their hospitals. Then he can declare a medical emergency, and seize the hospitals. For the sake of the children, of course.
MarkTheGreat on March 7, 2009 at 12:37 PM
It looks like Connecticut is trying to take over the church to prevent any closures. This should terrify any American, regardless of creed.
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2009/03/connecticut-state-legislature-introduced-bill-10982009/
rightwingprof on March 7, 2009 at 12:39 PM
The Apostle Paul was from a Hellenistic city that had been controlled by Greece. He could speak Greek, and was more influential than each of the later church doctors.
Aquinas was greatly influenced by Greek philosophers, especially Aristotle.
dedalus on March 7, 2009 at 12:45 PM
I do some consulting work for a Catholic owned health care non-profit that offers free medical services to the indigent and near-indigent elderly.
I brought this up with the Executive Director yeasterday and we had a discussion about it. When we talked about shutting down the hospitals, I suggested that the government would probably step in and nationalize them to keep them running. She breathed a sigh of relief and said, Good!
We are doomed.
lonesomecharlie on March 7, 2009 at 1:39 PM
It certainly can be generally said that great thinkers are inspired by previous great thinkers. Perhaps you are thinking of apologists, of which many are Greek.
The Aquinas – Aristotle influence you write about takes the form of repudiation instead of alignment.
Here’s a fair reference that picks the story up around 140 AD.
ericdijon on March 7, 2009 at 1:58 PM
I’ll read up on it. I’m not very familiar with the early Christian apologists.
At the end of his life, Aquinas questioned all that he had written. However, the Church canonized him and his writings have been required reading in Catholic seminaries for hundreds of years.
This is from the Catholic Encyclopedia on Aquinas and the Aristotelian influence:
dedalus on March 7, 2009 at 2:23 PM
I can appreciate where your thoughts are rooted, however please understand mine.
“Aristotle divides mankind into two distinct species that of freeman and that of slaves.” – Jeremy Bentham (1748-1832)
Abortion is equal and worse to/than slavery.
ericdijon on March 7, 2009 at 2:55 PM
I’d agree that, practically speaking, that is the RCC position.
dedalus on March 7, 2009 at 3:22 PM
the issue of the little girl in Brazil has nothing to do with this thread.
That was a very difficult call. I am a Catholic. I do not believe in abortion on demand, yet something inside of me says that allowing a 9 year old to carry twins to term would be harmful to her and the children. Her young body could not handle carrying twins. However, on the other side of the issue is an Archbishop who is following through that all life is sacred. He sees it in black and white with no shades of grey. The mother is in a difficult position because she could lose her daughter as well as the grandchildren – then there is the psychological damage that has been done to this little girl.
We do not know all of the facts about the case and to be sure that anti-Catholic bigots love it when the Church weighs in on such a situation. It gives them the opportunity to vent, yet again over something that really should have been thought through in private.
That poor child needs our pity, and should not be used as a political football. Shame on those who are bringing up her predicament to have a go at the Catholic Church.
Now, I do hope that the Baptists and other Christian churches will join with the Catholics in a fight over this issue. Get over the sectarianism and treat this as a single issue – do not let them introduce this bill.
maggieo on March 8, 2009 at 6:09 PM
Clowen-Piven strategy. Look it up.
“forcing political change through orchestrated crisis.”
maggieo on March 8, 2009 at 6:13 PM
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