Three Dems wavering on Card Check in the Senate?

posted at 10:25 am on March 5, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

When I interviewed Senator Jim DeMint at CPAC, he predicted that Republicans could get three Democratic votes in the Senate to keep the most radical parts of Barack Obama’s agenda from succeeding.  Greg Sargent at the Plum Line blog for the Washington Post says that the same three DeMint named may be shifting to support Card Check, one of the worst pieces of legislation on the Obama agenda.  If so, the Republicans may not be able to block it:

On a conference call with reporters today, AFL-CIO legislative director Bill Samuel made it explicit: The forces fighting to get the Employee Free Choice Act passed are certain that they have the support of three key Senators.

The three: Blanche Lincoln, Mark Pryor, and Mary Landrieu.

If true, this would be a big deal. The pro-business forces opposing Employee Free Choice have been lobbying those three, among others, pretty hard. And people in both camps had agreed that the three are among the fence-sitters.

On the call today, a reporter asked Samuel: “Are you confident that you have Lincoln and
Pryor?”

“Yes, we’re confident,” Samuel replied. Later in the call Samuel was asked the same about Landrieu, and he again replied Yes.

Later, two of the three declined to confirm or deny Samuels’ statement.  Pryor and Landrieu both released statements that claimed they had yet to decide on the issue.  Pryor noted that the bill needed improvement, and that neither side appears to want compromise, which made it sound as though he was inclined against it at the moment; Landrieu just said she would review it.

DeMint and other conservatives had hoped to peel off the three to support a filibuster in defense of the right to a secret ballot in organizing elections.  Republicans nervously wonder what the Porkulus Three in their own caucus will do on Card Check.  If the entire Republican caucus held, the three Democrats wouldn’t be needed to stop Card Check, but as we saw on Porkulus, Specter, Snowe, and Collins aren’t reliable when it comes to stopping big-government legislation.  They need the three Democrats in order to counter the potential loss of the Porkulus Three.

You know what to do:

  • Mary Landrieu (D-LA): 202-224-5824
  • Blanche Lincoln (D-AR): 202-224-4843
  • Mark Pryor (D-AR): 202-224-2353

And why not call the Porkulus Three as well?

  • Susan Collins: 202-224-2523
  • Olympia Snowe: 202-224-5344
  • Arlen Specter: 202-224-4254

Remember to be polite; the people that answer the phones are not political partisans but just working folk.

Previous posts on Card Check:


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When is this bill due on the floor?

genso on March 5, 2009 at 10:28 AM

I wish Huckabee would have run against Pryor rather than dragging his meaningless presidential campaign along.

Abby Adams on March 5, 2009 at 10:29 AM

Landrieu *should* be hesitant, but I think she’ll be willing to risk it because she’s not up for election until 2014.

(Landrieu’s had to play to the center for *years* here because she keeps winning elections by such thin margins, but a lot of us know she’s got pretty deep leftist tendencies at heart and would give in if she thought she was safe electorally.)

teke184 on March 5, 2009 at 10:29 AM

Ed,
Do you check tips? I sent one from L.A. Times.

Jeff on March 5, 2009 at 10:30 AM

Brown Shirts

kirkill on March 5, 2009 at 10:30 AM

I’d call these numbers, but I’m at work and don’t have a cell phone.

When does the cell phone stimulus check arrive?

AubieJon on March 5, 2009 at 10:31 AM

Well first, shouldn’t we nail down our Republicans?
Let’s find out if Specter, Snowe, Collins, and others are actually going to vote for this.
I think the three may have got the message…

right2bright on March 5, 2009 at 10:34 AM

Can you post that letter from the Senators to Mexico promoting free and secret elections? Barney Frank signed it.

ctmom on March 5, 2009 at 10:35 AM

Good. Card check is unnecessary, and even for Obama quite a brazen refutation of common sense.

ernesto on March 5, 2009 at 10:36 AM

When does the cell phone stimulus check arrive?

AubieJon on March 5, 2009 at 10:31 AM

Porkulus VII, November 2009.

I think the three may have got the message…

right2bright on March 5, 2009 at 10:34 AM

I doubt it.

Snowed In on March 5, 2009 at 10:37 AM

Bah. I bet that the key Senators are just waiting to find out which side will bribe them the most.

They’re corrupt thieves.

Frivolous on March 5, 2009 at 10:38 AM

Porkulus VII, November 2009.

Snowed In on March 5, 2009 at 10:37 AM

Dang! And I have an i-phone picked out already. Dang!

AubieJon on March 5, 2009 at 10:39 AM

Specter already voted for it and Susan Collins and Olympia Snowe don’t CARE what you think, they are beholden to Maine only and Maine is a quirky state.

DeathToMediaHacks on March 5, 2009 at 10:40 AM

Ed,
Do you check tips? I sent one from L.A. Times.

Jeff on March 5, 2009 at 10:30 AM

Only if you contribute some cash to Ed’s favorite charity. /sarc

WashJeff on March 5, 2009 at 10:43 AM

Nah, my negative vibe meter just went into the red. They will pass it, and more companies will say bye-bye and unemployment will skyrocket. No good days ahead my friends.

FlyoverJ-HawkFan on March 5, 2009 at 10:46 AM

Unions. When are we going to wake up. They have achieved the standard of living they so rightfully fought for 70-80-90 years ago, but they now have a one way ticket to irrelevance.

FlyoverJ-HawkFan on March 5, 2009 at 10:50 AM

George McGovern opposes card-check. Let’s hope the old fossil is still a beloved elder-statesmen to the ‘loons of the left and his voice will carry a bit of weight.

OmahaConservative on March 5, 2009 at 10:52 AM

Specter already voted for it and Susan Collins and Olympia Snowe don’t CARE what you think, they are beholden to Maine only and Maine is a quirky state.

DeathToMediaHacks on March 5, 2009 at 10:40 AM

Could you link where he voted for this bill?
I didn’t think the bill has been voted on yet…
As usual, you have misstated the facts.

right2bright on March 5, 2009 at 10:53 AM

Card check will end manufacturing in America.

tarpon on March 5, 2009 at 10:53 AM

Maybe we’ll get lucky and companies will fight back. You know good ole violence and bloodshed similar to West Virginia so many years ago. But this time the good guys will be the corporations.

FlyoverJ-HawkFan on March 5, 2009 at 10:54 AM

Card check will end manufacturing in America.

tarpon on March 5, 2009 at 10:53 AM

The unions do not care, they are in the public employee business now…great for us taxpayers.

WashJeff on March 5, 2009 at 10:55 AM

OK, I don’t understand this issue in details. Can someone elaborate? I don’t like unions but if the majority wants to form a union why should it be against the law?

Don’t jump on me. Please either explain the problem or point me to a reference that hopefully says a bit more than that Obama is a black racist.

radiofreevillage on March 5, 2009 at 10:58 AM

Pretty sad when Congress is going further left than George McGovern can tolerate.

amerpundit on March 5, 2009 at 10:59 AM

GM auditors think they can’t survive without more government cash and the libs think unions should be given more of a foothold on American businesses? Boggles the mind.

BrianA on March 5, 2009 at 11:00 AM

woohoo! those are my old senators.

repeat after me: ARKANSAS IS A RIGHT TO WORK STATE (ie, no forced unions)

Arkansas is home to Wal-Mart, Tyson chicken, etc, etc, etc……

The only thing that could taint your election chances in arkansas MORE than being an atheist (sorry Allah) is saying “I am pro-union!!!”

If you want to call and make a serious difference, call EITHER arkansas person, and if it’s Blance you’re calling, say “I’m from Little Rock and I’ve voted Dem all my life, but if you do this illegal union ballot thing, I just might vote against your challenger in 2010″

Pryor is the more conservative one, but he also just won reelection in november. But still, call either of them. It’s weird. Every state office in Arkansas and every national one (other than the ozarks congressman) is a DEMOCRAT…. but NONE of them are liberals. Arkansas votes gop nationally, but elects dems otherwise. So these 2 are stuck. They want to please the leadership of the senate, but the voters back home will hate them for it.

Call!!!!

battleoflepanto1571 on March 5, 2009 at 11:00 AM

Card check basically means that employees can join a union voting with secret ballots, instead of an open election. So us glass half-empty people see that a union rep can come to your home and intimidate you into voting for union representation. Not the whole gist, but a start to help you understand.

FlyoverJ-HawkFan on March 5, 2009 at 11:01 AM

Well first, shouldn’t we nail down our Republicans?
Let’s find out if Specter, Snowe, Collins, and others are actually going to vote for this.
I think the three may have got the message…

right2bright on March 5, 2009 at 10:34 AM

Dude, I love your posts and your Conservative views, but really??? WTF are you thinking??? These three have been, are and will be TRAITORS to all things Conservative…

We need them GONE, period… They WILL turn on us…

Mark Garnett on March 5, 2009 at 11:03 AM

radiofreevillage on March 5, 2009 at 10:58 AM

Here’s some info from the Chamber of Commerce:

Under the existing law today, workers have a chance to vote for or against unionization in a private-ballot election that is federally supervised. Under Card Check, if more than 50% of workers at a facility sign a card, the government would have to certify the union, and a private ballot election would be prohibited–even if workers want one.

By forcing workers to sign a card in public–instead of vote in private–Card Check opens the door to intimidation and coercion. Over 70% of voters agree that a private election is better than card check.

You’d be voting with the union and others watching over your shoulder, essentially.

Which is why you see people as far-left as George McGovern actively opposing it. The problem is that so many of our elected officials are beholden to union support and money to get elected.

amerpundit on March 5, 2009 at 11:05 AM

radiofreevillage on March 5, 2009 at 10:58 AM

The way I understand it (and I’m sure someone here has more detailed info than me): Now when unions want to come into a business there has to be a “formal” vote which is done by secret ballot. Card check would allow union organizers to contact employees outside of work (call or show up at their homes and such) and get them to sign a ballot in front of them. This leaves open the very real problem of intimidation. There is also a change in the percentage of the company workforce that is needed in order to make the company unionized. My understanding is also that the company has little ability to push back. You go union or go out of business.

pebbles on March 5, 2009 at 11:05 AM

Only if you contribute some cash to Ed’s favorite charity. /sarc

WashJeff on March 5, 2009 at 10:43 AM

My favorite charity is me.

Jeff on March 5, 2009 at 11:06 AM

OK, I don’t understand this issue in details. Can someone elaborate? I don’t like unions but if the majority wants to form a union why should it be against the law?

Don’t jump on me. Please either explain the problem or point me to a reference that hopefully says a bit more than that Obama is a black racist.

radiofreevillage on March 5, 2009 at 10:58 AM

ok. card check leads to COERCION and INTIMIDATION from the union boss thugs. in the old days, you have a ‘secret ballot’ to vote on whether to have a union. under this stupidly named “FREE CHOICE ACT”, it pretty much elimintates the seecret ballot for all practical purposes. “Vinny” from imports/exports will make that real sure. if the option is ‘secret ballot’ or ‘sign this petition’….. what will YOU do when Vinny brings around the clipboard.

it’s basically saying “screw VOTING on this, let’s just have the tough guy walk around the factory with a clipboard saying “SIGN THIS THAT YOU WANNA FORM A UNION… OR ELSE!” and when you have 51% of the names, badda bing badda boom you have a union.

Stupid. it leads to domination.

Say it’s your first month on the job.
Or you’re 19 and it’s your first job altogether.
Or you can’t stand the proposed leadership of said union but can’t say it out loud.

How will you say “NO” to Vinny carrying a clipboard? Should every worker be FORCED in every job to take a PUBLIC stand on “YES OR NO TO UNIONS”? Really?

What if i start bringing clipboards to your work saying “SIGN IT IF YOU WANT GAY MARRIAGE LEGAL”!

leads to peer pressure, ie not good….

battleoflepanto1571 on March 5, 2009 at 11:07 AM

leads to peer pressure, ie not good….

battleoflepanto1571 on March 5, 2009 at 11:07 AM

ie; profitable and happy foreign auto manufacturers down south that employed alot of us (ie, Americans) will just pull up stakes and leave rather than become another big three.

FlyoverJ-HawkFan on March 5, 2009 at 11:10 AM

OK, I don’t understand this issue in details. Can someone elaborate? I don’t like unions but if the majority wants to form a union why should it be against the law?

Don’t jump on me. Please either explain the problem or point me to a reference that hopefully says a bit more than that Obama is a black racist.

radiofreevillage on March 5, 2009 at 10:58 AM

Card Check will allow Union thugs to walk thru a Wal-Mart and ask employees if they want to get better wages, benifits, promise them the moon and stars, then ask them to fill out a form, right there, while the thug is stareing at them… Basicaly forcing them to say “yes Sir” I do want a Union…

Bottom line: Wal-Mart raises YOUR prices on EVERYTHING 40% to cover the union dues, wages and unrealistic demands…

YOUR family budget just got ANOTHER tax HIKE… Big time!

Think Ford, GM and all the auto industry unions on STEROIDS!

Economic disaster, implosion, lay-offs, unemplyoment as companies and business say “SCREW THIS!” and close doors rather then face Union demands…

Mark Garnett on March 5, 2009 at 11:11 AM

Right now the foreign auto companies with plants here in the US without union representation pay on average around $43.00 an hour (pay and benefits). The big three pay on average around $75-80 an hour. You get the picture.

FlyoverJ-HawkFan on March 5, 2009 at 11:14 AM

These senators are compromising principle for $$$$. This bill will kill manufacturing and blue collar jobs in America. Their unions are killing their jobs away. Democrats are such major idiots.

jencab on March 5, 2009 at 11:15 AM

Bottom line: Wal-Mart raises YOUR prices on EVERYTHING 40% to cover the union dues, wages and unrealistic demands…

mark Garnett on March 5, 2009 at 11:11 AM

Wal-Mart is their holy grail.

FlyoverJ-HawkFan on March 5, 2009 at 11:16 AM

These senators are compromising principle for $$$$. This bill will kill manufacturing and blue collar jobs in America. Their unions are killing their jobs away. Democrats are such major idiots.

jencab on March 5, 2009 at 11:15 AM

Principles, principles? They don’t have no stinking principles.

FlyoverJ-HawkFan on March 5, 2009 at 11:17 AM

Landrieu’s had to play to the center for *years* here because she keeps winning elections by such thin margins, but a lot of us know she’s got pretty deep leftist tendencies at heart and would give in if she thought she was safe electorally.

I would say its two factors that kept Mary Landrieu in office: NOLA Democrats and she ran against a weak opponent in 2008. Without NOLA, she would have never been elected. Even in 2002 with Bush and Cheney coming down here to campagin for her opponent, she still lost because of the welfare class in New Orleans.

She ran against a weak GOP opponent who was a former Democrat and Kerry supporter in 2008. There were enough NOLA Dems to put her over the top.

I don’t trust her to vote against card check. She’s banking that we Louisianians are dumb and we’ll forget come 2014 when she’s up for reelection. The Louisiana GOP needs to start calling BS on her rather than just conceeding that she’ll win every time.

I’m sorry, I just can’t stand Mary Landreiu or her good for nothing brohter. You know, I just want to see Louisiana purge themselves of the Landrieus. They’re the dimestore version of the Long family.

Lay-Z on March 5, 2009 at 11:21 AM

We need them GONE, period… They WILL turn on us…

Mark Garnett on March 5, 2009 at 11:03 AM

I agree, they need to be purged…I just want to know how they are going to vote on this bill now, so their voters can start putting pressure on them NOW.
I want to know, if the stimulus bill, which is looking worse everyday, can be hung around there necks.
I suspect they are thinking more then twice about this bill…later get rid of them, but right now, I want to know their stand.

right2bright on March 5, 2009 at 11:27 AM

Don’t jump on me. Please either explain the problem or point me to a reference that hopefully says a bit more than that Obama is a black racist.

radiofreevillage on March 5, 2009 at 10:58 AM

Here is that link to the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.
They have the most complete information on the effect on business.

right2bright on March 5, 2009 at 11:30 AM

I find it quite interesting and astonishing that when someone is elected to the congress, it is all “group think”. No one will think for themselves and knowing right from wrong is totally out the window. So is common sense.

Anyone who can’t see the validity of a secret ballot should be dragged down the capitol steps and beaten until the family cannot identify the remains.

cjs1943 on March 5, 2009 at 11:32 AM

More on card check and the history.

right2bright on March 5, 2009 at 11:32 AM

DeathToMediaHacks on March 5, 2009 at 10:40 AM

Could you link where he voted for this bill?

right2bright on March 5, 2009 at 10:53 AM

Still waiting for the link…

right2bright on March 5, 2009 at 11:33 AM

Go Blanche Lincoln!!!

I’ve known Blanche since 1983 when she was an assistant to Bill Alexander (former Congressman from Arkansas.) She later went back to Arkansas and ran against Alexander in a primary and beat him! She is probably the most conservative Democrat in the Senate, and she is up for reelection in 2010.

She also represents Arkansas, the home of Wal-Mart. So I doubt she will be voting Yes on this one.

rockmom on March 5, 2009 at 11:33 AM

Anyone who can’t see the validity of a secret ballot should be dragged down the capitol steps and beaten until the family cannot identify the remains.

cjs1943 on March 5, 2009 at 11:32 AM

So I take it, you are against Card Check?

right2bright on March 5, 2009 at 11:34 AM

cjs1943 on March 5, 2009 at 11:32 AM

Alot of their constituencies are premised on the almight dollar (contribution/bribe) from the unions. They have to pay back the devil. Cross the unions and you might have a “grassy knoll” moment.

FlyoverJ-HawkFan on March 5, 2009 at 11:35 AM

BEST IDEA I’VE HEARD IN LONG, LONG TIME !!!

Members of Congress should be compelled to wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers, so we can identify their sponsors..

samhill on March 5, 2009 at 11:37 AM

It is just trading our 3 for their 3. Guess that is what you call status quo.

Just A Grunt on March 5, 2009 at 11:37 AM

Members of Congress should be compelled to wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers, so we can identify their sponsors..

Their outfits would be nothing but patches of logos stitched together.

Lay-Z on March 5, 2009 at 11:38 AM

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

sannhet on March 5, 2009 at 11:44 AM

HA! If you think that three Dems are going to hold out on this, you are crazy. They may hold out in order to get something in return, but there is no doubt that they will fall in line when the time comes. The Dems, unlike Republicans, will not break ranks.

Of course the entire lot (save a small few) deserves to be in prison. That is no joke either – try some of the stunts that Congress does and see how long it takes before you are in jail.

We are ruled by the corrupt nitwits whom I wouldn’t let babysit my kids.

King of the Britons on March 5, 2009 at 11:45 AM

Why is it that Republicans cannot win Senate races in a red state like Arkansas ? It is so ugly that they have to depend on the Dims…

Arlen Specter has always supported card check ( he used to be Democrat once and i suppose giving into unions is one habit that does not die for an ex-Dim)

But Collins and Snowe ? they are essentially Democrats.. no one knows why these ppl ever wanted to be in the GOP.

nagee76 on March 5, 2009 at 11:49 AM

What does a Union do when no one wants to be forced to join one……..?

(Hint: The Law of Unintended Consequences)

Seven Percent Solution on March 5, 2009 at 11:56 AM

Good. Card check is unnecessary, and even for Obama quite a brazen refutation of common sense.

ernesto on March 5, 2009 at 10:36 AM

Ernesto questioning the wisdom of The One? Wait, I think I just saw a pig fly by my window…

College Prof on March 5, 2009 at 11:59 AM

Well I called the senators and was very polite. I did tell them that in my opinion this legislation was the most undemocratic since the Alien and Sedition Acts under Adams. And if they used secret ballots, why shouldn’t citizens have that right during union representation elections.

I have a union member friend who is against this bill since he has seen first hand the union intimidation during supposedly secret ballots. He said unions were needed once, but they have out lived their usefulness; they are not any better than big business. Notice the meeting the AFL-CIO leadership is having at that plush resort using member dues; many who are unemployed. Such hypocrisy!

amr on March 5, 2009 at 12:03 PM

amr on March 5, 2009 at 12:03 PM

Here in my hometown, we have the largest private aircraft manufacturing company in the world who I proudly work for. Before additonal layoff notices were sent the company asked the union if they wouldn’t mind going to 4 day work weeks to stave off further layoffs. The union said no, that they didn’t trust the company. That same week 2000 layoff notices went out.

FlyoverJ-HawkFan on March 5, 2009 at 12:11 PM

I’m sorry, I just can’t stand Mary Landreiu or her good for nothing brohter. You know, I just want to see Louisiana purge themselves of the Landrieus. They’re the dimestore version of the Long family.

Lay-Z on March 5, 2009 at 11:21 AM

And don’t forget their old man, Moon.

Del Dolemonte on March 5, 2009 at 12:13 PM

I just called Collins’s office. Gal said Collins is resolutely against CardCheck, and she’s on record as such. But who could believe anything this bobblehead lunatic says?

Western_Civ on March 5, 2009 at 12:26 PM

Fox News is reporting Joe Biden is meeting with AFL-CIO Executives in Miami, but the press has been banned from attending the meeting “under directions from the White House”.

Transparency, Obama-style.

fogw on March 5, 2009 at 12:36 PM

Thought I would drag this over…

right2bright on March 5, 2009 at 12:37 PM

I just called Collins’s office. Gal said Collins is resolutely against CardCheck, and she’s on record as such. But who could believe anything this bobblehead lunatic says?

Western_Civ on March 5, 2009 at 12:26 PM

This is the time for her constituents to call her and praise her…yes I know, lump in the throat, but her “supporters” have to show their support. Like throwing a dog a bone when it doesn’t wet the carpet…

right2bright on March 5, 2009 at 12:39 PM

That same week 2000 layoff notices went out.

FlyoverJ-HawkFan on March 5, 2009 at 12:11 PM

And not a union leader was laid off I bet…

right2bright on March 5, 2009 at 12:41 PM

You’d be voting with the union and others watching over your shoulder, essentially.

Which is why you see people as far-left as George McGovern actively opposing it. The problem is that so many of our elected officials are beholden to union support and money to get elected.

I obviously support private-voting in virtually all cases. What’s the “responsible” argument against it? I understand the point about coercion, but that cannot be an “official” argument in support of changing the law. What’s their pretend argument?

radiofreevillage on March 5, 2009 at 12:44 PM

Blanche Lincoln (D-AR)
Mark Pryor (D-AR)

I believe those folks are being influenced Bentonville’s trained thugs. It’s no surprise why they would be somehow Democrat, of Arkansas, and against this bill.

FlyoverJ-HawkFan on March 5, 2009 at 12:11 PM

They have a very good reason not to trust the company. One side isn’t going to give away their hand if they know the other will maul them for it. If the company was a bit more trustworthy, they could have certainly struck a deal.

sethstorm on March 5, 2009 at 12:46 PM

What if i start bringing clipboards to your work saying “SIGN IT IF YOU WANT GAY MARRIAGE LEGAL”!

Will sign in a heartbeat. But your point is well taken.

radiofreevillage on March 5, 2009 at 12:49 PM

I have a union member friend who is against this bill since he has seen first hand the union intimidation during supposedly secret ballots. He said unions were needed once, but they have out lived their usefulness; they are not any better than big business.

amr on March 5, 2009 at 12:03 PM

Unions ARE big business, but not like any that you’ll find trading in New York. They generate their revenue by bleeding honest working folk for their mandatory dues. Union leadership uses that money to pay their own fat salaries and to buy influence with politicians. Big business indeed. Kinda like the mob.

Selkirk on March 5, 2009 at 12:51 PM

I obviously support private-voting in virtually all cases. What’s the “responsible” argument against it? I understand the point about coercion, but that cannot be an “official” argument in support of changing the law. What’s their pretend argument?

radiofreevillage on March 5, 2009 at 12:44 PM

The voting process is highly skewed in the favor of the company. They can drag things out, intimidate likely yes-voters, bring in more no-voters to skew the results(think of it as if government elections had no registration deadlines).

The EFCA is just letting the unions do what the companies have done to unions for the past 30+ years. Same tactics, but business is screeching because they’re not the ones who can pull the dirty pool.

How about a third way that takes the dirty pool out of the argument?

sethstorm on March 5, 2009 at 12:51 PM

fogw on March 5, 2009 at 12:36 PM

The unionbusters do the same thing and in the same manner.

sethstorm on March 5, 2009 at 12:53 PM

Selkirk on March 5, 2009 at 12:51 PM

Kind of like a stereotype that seems to not ring true.

sethstorm on March 5, 2009 at 12:53 PM

How about a third way that takes the dirty pool out of the argument?

sethstorm on March 5, 2009 at 12:51 PM

You mean secret ballots, where no one can intimidate?
That’s what the businesses want…the union doesn’t want secret ballots.

right2bright on March 5, 2009 at 12:53 PM

You mean secret ballots, where no one can intimidate?
That’s what the businesses want…the union doesn’t want secret ballots.

right2bright on March 5, 2009 at 12:53 PM

I thought there was some article about this a few weeks ago – they did keep the secret ballot. The idea was that they turned it from a war of attrition to actual negotiation.

sethstorm on March 5, 2009 at 12:59 PM

The unionbusters do the same thing and in the same manner.

sethstorm on March 5, 2009 at 12:53 PM

In the past 40 years you have never seen a business firebomb a union leaders house, shoot at his children, beat the picketers.
In every strike I have been involved in (maybe a dozen), I have had employees hospitalized, wives and children threatened, homes shot up…the union are thugs.
You are living in a dream world if you think there is any semblance of balance between union thuggery and business thuggery.
Businesses have to set up security cameras at every truck entrance…the unions do everything they can to destroy that equipment, and to block the video recording of their actions…the union have no video recording equipment.
It is the businesses who set up safe guards for their employees, the union doesn’t need to.
You should get out more, and try to cross one picket line in your life…but you would rather rant about something you know nothing about, except what is fed you.

right2bright on March 5, 2009 at 1:01 PM

Maybe this is Obama’s plan to keep illegals out of the US. Send all of the jobs to Mexico.

besser tot als rot on March 5, 2009 at 1:04 PM

I thought there was some article about this a few weeks ago – they did keep the secret ballot. The idea was that they turned it from a war of attrition to actual negotiation.

sethstorm on March 5, 2009 at 12:59 PM

Read my links to the U.S Chamber, they have a synopsis, along with the actual bill.
Secret ballots are only if the majority select it…and the selection is in front of union leaders with a sign up clip board. Business reps. are not allowed in an area where union leaders are “asking” the workers to sign the ballot, openly sign and openly stating their yes or no.
Businesses are locked out of the process unless they vote yes on secret ballots, then they can supply the ballots…read the links, U.S. Chamber is slanted against, but they have the actual bill, and the “cliff notes” are accurate.

right2bright on March 5, 2009 at 1:05 PM

The idea was that they turned it from a war of attrition to actual negotiation.

sethstorm on March 5, 2009 at 12:59 PM

Too add, the concession was because the supreme court would have gotten involved if no secret ballot was available, this was just to stall the inevitable court battles.

right2bright on March 5, 2009 at 1:07 PM

called Collins. Her office says she is against it.

wtis02575 on March 5, 2009 at 1:14 PM

right2bright on March 5, 2009 at 1:01 PM

I’ve seen more lockouts around my area – you cross that line, there’s actual (non-labor related) laws to cover that.

sethstorm on March 5, 2009 at 1:17 PM

UNIONS ARE THE RUIN OF GM, FORD and AMERICA MANUFACTURING!

Now that want to destroy Wal-Mart. Target and even McDonalds and then WE, yes WE, not the Companies, will PAY THE COST OF UNION THUGS AND CORRUPTION! I work with a Union everyday, I have seen the destruction of an entire industry.

If your willing to pay 40% more for you food, Wal-Mart items, basicaly everything, including McDonalds, then ALLOW unions to get their Card Check passed…

Remember this day… and what you pay now, and what you WILL pay… While the Unions promote the destruction of America thru The Messiah against the wishes even of some members in unions…

Mark Garnett on March 5, 2009 at 2:21 PM

Card check will end ended manufacturing in America.

tarpon on March 5, 2009 at 10:53 AM

angryed on March 5, 2009 at 2:39 PM

Mark Garnett on March 5, 2009 at 2:21 PM

Explain the continued success of Meijer and Kroger who have some degree of unionization.

They’re to some extent competitors to Wal-Mart but have actually survived with a mixed model.

sethstorm on March 5, 2009 at 2:42 PM

I’ve seen more lockouts around my area – you cross that line, there’s actual (non-labor related) laws to cover that.

sethstorm on March 5, 2009 at 1:17 PM

Look, you don’t have to believe me, I am mainly posting for others.
Your lame “lock out” story, does not address the issue of physical intimidation.
I tell you what, you work at an auto union plant, and try to organize a group to “oust” the union…see how long it is until you have an “accident” or your house is burned down…you obviously don’t have kids, the kids that come home with a note saying, “next time they might get “lost”"…do you think all the violence and corruption story’s about the union are fables? Ask Jimmy Hoffa…when you find him.

right2bright on March 5, 2009 at 3:37 PM

Mary Landrieu opposed card check last year when she was running for reelection and just barely won. Oh wait she is a liberal dimocrat they always lie and break campaign promises.

Jdripper on March 5, 2009 at 3:44 PM

Explain the continued success of Meijer and Kroger who have some degree of unionization.

They’re to some extent competitors to Wal-Mart but have actually survived with a mixed model.

sethstorm on March 5, 2009 at 2:42 PM

First, Wal-Mart dwarfs them in sales.
500 Billion for Wal-Mart (second largest employer in the U.S., behind the feds, and the largest private employer)
Kroger…60 Billion
Can’t find sales for Meijer, but probably 1/2 of Kroger at most.
So Kroger is about 1/8 the size of Wal-Mart…I don’t think Wal-Mart is looking over their shoulder…

right2bright on March 5, 2009 at 3:49 PM

right2bright on March 5, 2009 at 3:49 PM

I know they’re regional players.

My point is that they aren’t dead and far from it.
They live and thrive despite not being union-hostile.

right2bright on March 5, 2009 at 3:37 PM

Yes, I do believe that there are cases of union intimidation as there are those of anti-union intimidation.

However, I believe that unions serve as a necessary check to motivate companies against practices that would harm any citizen.

sethstorm on March 5, 2009 at 5:17 PM

However, I believe that unions serve as a necessary check to motivate companies against practices that would harm any citizen.sethstorm on March 5, 2009 at 5:17 PM

I don’t disagree with that in the abstract. But today that is less a reality. In the days when management and government worked hand-in-hand that was true. Now the balance has changed and government and unions work hand-in-hand. Less so from a directive standpoint in Republican administrations, but the bureaucracy is not totally under the control of the executive. Remember the President can “order”, but the bureaucracy does the follow through. Example: The Jupiter missiles that the USSR demanded be removed from Turkey during the Cuban Missile Crisis Kennedy had ordered removed some time before because they were obsolete and FBM subs were taking their place.

Anyway, notice that it is illegal for a company to issue a check to politicians, but unions can out of their dues usually with no vote on who to support.

amr on March 5, 2009 at 5:52 PM

Yes, I do believe that there are cases of union intimidation as there are those of anti-union intimidation.

sethstorm on March 5, 2009 at 5:17 PM

You think a pattern of intimidation and terror is equal to an occasional (and I mean very seldom if ever in the past 40 years) of a business intimidating.
You have your standards, I have mine.
You think that probably a 100 to one ratio of violence is equal…I don’t.
You are the type who thinks our “torture” is the same as what Hussein s were/was…
Just because someone does something once or twice, it is not the same as someone who makes a living doing it…but that would take discernment, and liberals have a difficult time with that concept.

right2bright on March 5, 2009 at 6:08 PM

Mary Landrieu opposed card check last year when she was running for reelection and just barely won. Oh wait she is a liberal dimocrat they always lie and break campaign promises.

Jdripper on March 5, 2009 at 3:44 PM

Yeah, she voted no on the first bailout because she was up for reelection but she voted for the porkulus. She claimed that it was a waste of taxpayer money yet she didn’t have a problem with the porkulus that wastes more taxpayer money.

Quote Mary Landrieu:

However, if the people of Louisiana have learned anything in the last several years, it is that simply throwing money at a disaster doesn’t fix the problem unless paired with wise reforms to the practices that failed us.

But we can throw money at pet projects like past corrupt Louisiana politicians have done.

She didn’t listen to her constituents regarding the porkulus and I don’t trust her on card check.

And don’t forget their old man, Moon.

Del Dolemonte on March 5, 2009 at 12:13 PM

I bet the old man gives Mitch trouble over how he couldn’t beat Nagin in the 2006 mayoral runoff.

Lay-Z on March 5, 2009 at 8:38 PM

Pryor and Lincoln are my senators. I’ve made it crystal clear how I feel about Card Check and how I expect them to vote on it, but I’m not terribly worried they will side with the unions on this. You can be pretty dang sure that Wal-Mart and Tyson and ABF and J.B. Hunt are turning up the heat REAL high on these two. No way, no how does anyone want unions in Arkansas, and if they voted in favor of Card Check, they’d be out of office in a heartbeat.

NoLeftTurn on March 5, 2009 at 10:55 PM

Anyone who can’t see the validity of a secret ballot should be dragged down the capitol steps and beaten until the family cannot identify the remains.

cjs1943 on March 5, 2009 at 11:32 AM

They see the validity of secret ballots, that is why they want to do away with them.

darktood on March 6, 2009 at 6:01 AM

right2bright on March 5, 2009 at 6:08 PM

Occasional? Not even close.

If it was occasional, we wouldn’t have law firms all over offering to perform their own form of dirty pool.

Some of them have even run out of unions and decided to screw citizens over with H1/L1 issues such as done by Grigsby & Cohen.

sethstorm on March 6, 2009 at 8:21 AM