UN: Beliefs have rights that trump free speech
posted at 12:55 pm on March 3, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
Christopher Hitchens rips the UN in his inimitable fashion today for surrendering the right to free speech — and criticism — through the veil of multiculturalism. For centuries, the West has defined freedom and liberty in individual terms, so as to keep the abuses of the state and other orthodoxies at bay. Now the UN has given away the legacy of individual freedom and endorsed the idea that criticism of Islam should somehow be actionable:
In the same weeks that this resolution comes up for its annual renewal at the United Nations, its chief sponsor-government (Pakistan) makes an agreement with the local Taliban to close girls’ schools in the Swat Valley region (a mere 100 miles or so from the capital in Islamabad) and subject the inhabitants to Sharia law. This capitulation comes in direct response to a campaign of horrific violence and intimidation, including public beheadings. Yet the religion of those who carry out this campaign is not to be mentioned, lest it “associate” the faith with human rights violations or terrorism. In Paragraph 6, an obvious attempt is being made to confuse ethnicity with confessional allegiance. Indeed this insinuation (incidentally dismissing the faith-based criminality of 9/11 as merely “tragic”) is in fact essential to the entire scheme. If religion and race can be run together, then the condemnations that racism axiomatically attracts can be surreptitiously extended to religion, too. This is clumsy, but it works: The useless and meaningless term Islamophobia, now widely used as a bludgeon of moral blackmail, is testimony to its success.
Just to be clear, a phobia is an irrational and unconquerable fear or dislike. However, some of us can explain with relative calm and lucidity why we think “faith” is the most overrated of the virtues. (Don’t be calling us “phobic” unless you want us to start whining that we have been “offended.”) And this whole picture would be very much less muddied and confused if the state of Pakistan, say, did not make the absurd and many-times discredited assertion that religion can be the basis of a nationality. It is such crude amalgamations—is a Saudi or Pakistani being “profiled” because of his religion or his ethnicity?—that are responsible for any overlap between religion and race. It might also help if the Muslim hadith did not prescribe the death penalty for anyone trying to abandon Islam—one could then be surer who was a sincere believer and who was not, or (as with the veil or the chador in the case of female adherents) who was a volunteer and who was being coerced by her family.
Rather than attempt to put its own house in order or to confront such other grave questions as the mass murder of Shiite Muslims by Sunni Muslims (and vice versa), or the desecration of Muslim holy sites by Muslim gangsters, or the discrimination against Ahmadi Muslims by other Muslims, the U.N. resolution seeks to extend the whole area of denial from its existing homeland in the Islamic world into the heartland of post-Enlightenment democracy where it is still individuals who have rights, not religions. See where the language of Paragraph 10 of the resolution is taking us. Having briefly offered lip service to the rights of free expression, it goes on to say that “the exercise of these rights carries with it special duties and responsibilities and may therefore be subject to limitations as are provided for by law and are necessary for respect of the rights or reputations of others, protection of national security or of public order, public health or morals and respect for religions and beliefs.” The thought buried in this awful, wooden prose is as ugly as the language in which it is expressed: Watch what you say, because our declared intention is to criminalize opinions that differ with the one true faith. Let nobody say that they have not been warned.
Where does this stop? Will the UN next declare monarchy as a protected class of beliefs, about which criticism should be treated as a hate crime? Fascism? White supremacy? How about American exceptionalism? What about Hinduism, a polytheistic belief system that Islam frequently and bitterly criticizes?
Perhaps Muslims will get hoist by their own petard, but don’t count on it. The UN isn’t looking for intellectual honesty or consistency in this declaration. They are looking for ways to surrender to the radical Muslims who threaten the world through terrorism, or in the case of Iran, through nuclear weaponry. Ironically, this clause could also keep moderate Muslims in the West from criticizing radical extremists within their own faith — which is desperately needed and happens mainly in the US.
The notion that ideas and belief systems have “rights” goes against every step towards liberty that mankind has taken. Individuals have rights; ideas and belief systems have values and policies that should remain open for debate, criticism, satire, and ridicule. Without that essential freedom, people will fall under the thrall of whatever belief system or ideology can exert the most force over them — a strategy practically designed by and for the radical Islamist extremists to whom the UN panders in this declaration.









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The sooner the UN no longer exists the better.
PimFortuynsGhost on March 3, 2009 at 12:57 PM
Free Speech is either free or it is not.
coldwarrior on March 3, 2009 at 12:58 PM
B Hussein O is sure to grovel and kowtow to the UN.
OmahaConservative on March 3, 2009 at 12:58 PM
The UN is forever consistent in its ability to cower, grovel and offer its shanks to every two-bit terrorist or dictator.
The UN is a criminal organization. Every single employee associated with that abomination should be dragged bodily out of Turtle Bay and thrown onto a plane, with a one-way ticket to whatever hellhole they hail from.
NoDonkey on March 3, 2009 at 12:59 PM
Hey Ed… did you guys ever get that head-banging smiley installed?
Just wonderin’.
Skywise on March 3, 2009 at 12:59 PM
The concept of individual rights and liberty is, to the UN, as the concept of quantum mechanics is, to a flounder.
Utterly and stupendously meaningless.
OhEssYouCowboys on March 3, 2009 at 1:00 PM
If I was Persident one of my very first items would be to cut off ALL funds from the UN and kick them out of New York.
Mark Garnett on March 3, 2009 at 1:00 PM
Same thing Obama’s thugs are doing with Rush’s free speech rights. That should be criticism of Islam and Obama are off-limits, and for the same reason. For the greater good of the collective.
Community organizer = commun-ist.
JiangxiDad on March 3, 2009 at 1:01 PM
As I have been saying for a long time, anyone who supports the idea of an empowered, peerless, competitionless entity (such as the UN) is a total moron. The UN is nothing but a Utopian Nightmare run amok and it will kill us if we don’t kill it, first. There are few issues more important than killing the UN and stopping the amazing propaganda that supports this amazingly dangerous entity. Anyone with even a rudimentary understanding of evolutionary theory (or just some common sense) understands that empowered, peerless, competitionless entities are guaranteed to grow in grotesque and destructive ways.
progressoverpeace on March 3, 2009 at 1:01 PM
Only in a fascist regime or in madhouse or in Hell, or in a Muslim country, but then I repeat myself.
MB4 on March 3, 2009 at 1:02 PM
Turtle Bay is worth some coin. Bloomburg and Patterson could help pay down the city and state deficits with the money made from a sale of the UN complex.
I see no reason for the UN to be here, much less exist. If it needs to have a location, how about Ramallah? Or one of the cess pools in Yemen?
PimFortuynsGhost on March 3, 2009 at 1:03 PM
UN: not useless, but actively working for the other side.
rbj on March 3, 2009 at 1:04 PM
McCain talked about United Democracy’s as an alternative to UN. Good idea.
the_nile on March 3, 2009 at 1:04 PM
Okay, fine, I will submit to the UN…
On one condition. Their “soldiers” must stop wearing baby blue. Baby blue is just one of those colors that shouldn’t have rights.
myrenovations on March 3, 2009 at 1:05 PM
Hmmm, I would think there should be certain restrictions. Free speech should not impound on someone else’s right to freedom. For example, I would have been happy had there been laws to prohibit the Nazi propaganda against the Jews during the Third Reich. That is why we have laws against “hate speech”, and they exist for a reason.
peter_griffin on March 3, 2009 at 1:05 PM
Mind you, my comment does not directly pertain to this UN ruling, which I think is pretty dumb, btw.
peter_griffin on March 3, 2009 at 1:06 PM
No sane examination of Islam however rigorous could find one redeeming feature.
MB4 on March 3, 2009 at 1:07 PM
Huh? Where are they?
Aside from Zhudi Jasser, I can’t think of another Muslim (who is still a Muslim) who criticizes Islam with any credibility.
IrishEi on March 3, 2009 at 1:07 PM
We do?
myrenovations on March 3, 2009 at 1:08 PM
Mark Garnett 2012!
patriette on March 3, 2009 at 1:08 PM
what do the following have in common ?
Saudi Arabia, Russian Federation, Cuba, China
yep, you got it. they all sit on the United Nations Human Rights Council
runner on March 3, 2009 at 1:10 PM
Mosques are plenty, graveyards are plenty, but morals and whiskey are scarce. The Koran does not permit Mohammedans to drink. Their natural instincts do not permit them to be moral.
When I, a thoughtful and unblessed Presbyterian, examine the Koran, I know that beyond any question every Mohammedan is insane, not in all things, but in religious matters. I cannot prove to him that he is insane, because you never can prove anything to a lunatic — for that is a part of his insanity and the evidence of it.
- Mark Twain
MB4 on March 3, 2009 at 1:10 PM
From some crappy play in the UK that you will soon be subjected to here in the US. I love the not so subtle Auschwitz analogy. At least he wasn’t killed by stuffed animals and other children’s toys.
Blake on March 3, 2009 at 1:12 PM
No, no, f@#% the UN!
Christien on March 3, 2009 at 1:13 PM
I’m stealing this, but I can’t remember the original source/speaker, so here goes:
strictnein on March 3, 2009 at 1:13 PM
At some point, these things have the not so neat propensity to attack the authors. When the worm turns, and worms do turn, such laws can be used against those they pretended to protect.
Krydor on March 3, 2009 at 1:16 PM
Who gets to decide when someone else’ right to freedom is impinged by speech? Who gets to decide on what constitutes “hateful propaganda?”
Laws restricting speech are simply too easy to game, and people abuse the legal system too much as it is. Most of us are digusted by hateful speech, but making it illegal goes too far and opens the door to some pretty horrible stuff.
TheUnrepentantGeek on March 3, 2009 at 1:17 PM
Instead of tea, can we push the UN into the sea?
WashJeff on March 3, 2009 at 1:17 PM
I’ll go further. I want to see that as part of the Republican Party policy.
genso on March 3, 2009 at 1:18 PM
Speaking of Hitchens, check out this video of someone on the Hardball staff laughing in the background last week when Hitch said “we have to stay within swatting distance of Al Qaeda”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swA9SoTxMow
I’ve sent this to the staff at HotAir, Drudge, Michelle, and Newsbusters and it hasn’t seen the light of day and I can’t figure out why. To verify that this hasn’t been doctored in any way, here is the original clip from MSNBC (at 2:40 in the clip is when it happens):
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/#29394884
SillyRyno on March 3, 2009 at 1:20 PM
I thought the UN was supposed to resolve matters of dispute between member states in order to prevent wars…how does does criminalizing logical dissent against murderous cultists fit in this agenda?
Alden Pyle on March 3, 2009 at 1:21 PM
Push the UN into the bay.
Maxx on March 3, 2009 at 1:21 PM
You must be English. Except for criminal threats and defamation, the concept of making any speech illegal is foreign to Americans. I realize different societies have different historical backgrounds. I wouldn’t feel comfortable with lifting the restrictions on speech in Germany and Austria.
Blake on March 3, 2009 at 1:21 PM
I just can’t believe how much this decade is turning into a rerun of the 1970s. That is when the scurrilous “Zionism=Racism” resolution was passed by the UN General Assembly, with Andrew Young sitting on his hands watching. Next thing we knew, the USSR had invaded Afghanistan and the hostages were taken in Tehran.
As Churchill said, we are feeding the crocodile, hoping he will eat us last.
The only good part of this is how much fun the next “Reagan revolution” is going to be.
rockmom on March 3, 2009 at 1:24 PM
Will the UN next declare monarchy as a protected class of beliefs, about which criticism should be treated as a hate crime?
re Thailand…
max1 on March 3, 2009 at 1:24 PM
Pointlessly emailed my rep and senators to take action withdrawing all financial aid to the UN, and propose our withdrawal from their charter. I’m sure they’ll be snickering as they read.
MadisonConservative on March 3, 2009 at 1:27 PM
That’s a very peculiar example, since it was the same regime making the propaganda as would have been enforcing the speech laws. The problem with propaganda is when no one’s allowed to answer.
Lars Hedegaard, if I recall correctly.
DrSteve on March 3, 2009 at 1:27 PM
The act of speech does not, in and of itself, impound anyone else’s rights. Hence, the right to freely criticize and challenge the government, a set of beliefs or the last book you read, cannot be curtailed in a free society.
patriette on March 3, 2009 at 1:28 PM
And China, the country that executes people for exercising free speech, the country that kills political prisoners in a van, harvests their organs, and sells them on the open market…has won awards for human rights achievements.
Not going to say what I hope happens to the UN. I will only say that they’ve long since had it coming when it does happen.
MadisonConservative on March 3, 2009 at 1:29 PM
I should have been more clear with my comment. When I said “hate speech”, I meant speech which could lead to “imminent lawless action”, otherwise known as a “riot”. I agree it is more restrictive than “hate speech”, but the intent is not drastically different.
Constitutional guarantees of free speech and free press do not permit a State to forbid or proscribe advocacy of the use of force or of law violation *except* where such advocacy is directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action.
peter_griffin on March 3, 2009 at 1:30 PM
I recall a video from 2 years or so ago with an Isreali Human Rights member making a speech to the UN. Though I can’t find it – he basically ripped through the radical Islam – anti-Isreali reality of the middle east and the UN.
Of course the response – he was chastized for making such “gross accusations” as Islamic UN memebrs hissed and cat called as he concluded.
The UN is made up of radical 3rd world countries, why are we expecting a sane direction? The “Big 5″ just pay the bills and house their double parked cars along 2nd Ave…
Odie1941 on March 3, 2009 at 1:31 PM
About time, the Mormons have been taking a lot of heat in the media lately. This should shut their critics up.
/sarc
Techie on March 3, 2009 at 1:31 PM
Ed,
It’s a chicken-and-egg question, for one. (And I’m not surprised the UN made an omelet out of the issue.)
How can you possibly reach the conclusion that “free speech” is a “fundamental right” without having some sort of absolute moral foundation upon which to affix this right? Sure, we citizens of the several United States take such a “right” for granted, but the modern liberal democratic tradition is rather young and in the minority even in the contemporary world. Moreover, you fall into the trap of secular humanism in your contention that any system of governance is independent of all value systems.
If anything, the UN is recognizing national sovereignty in substance even if it is called the “right” of a religious group. Now, I find it ironic at times how the UN purports to be a beacon of “human rights” when many of its member-states are as tyrannical as any in human history. However, the failures of the UN and the limitations of some of President Bush’s endeavors should have driven the conservative movement back in the direction of Realpolitik and away from neo-conservative “freedom-spreading.” After all, do we really seek a place in the legacy of Woodrow Wilson?
This doesn’t mean we can’t effectuate global change over the long haul, through diplomatic means and incident to military intervention, as much of the latter half of the Twentieth Century attests. But top-down change effectuated throught the UN would be somewhat distasteful for classic conservatives, even if by some miracle such change were even possible.
cackcon on March 3, 2009 at 1:32 PM
Which should we throw out first, the UN or the Obummer Admin?
Bevan on March 3, 2009 at 1:32 PM
The problem with “hate speech” laws is that they are subjective. They mean different things to different people. In some countries that have similar “hate speech” laws it becomes so bad that any criticism of said subject(Islam in this case) is because you hate them and are punished for any disagreement (see France – Brigette Bardot. There have also been preachers in similar countries that have been prosecuted for preaching a sermon listing homosexuality as a sin (he uses strong language in his description)(Sweden)
I would rather have a country where people can put a cross in urine and call it art (as long as I still have the right to call that artist a total idiot) than have a government that outlaws any “speech” that people might find offensive. I use “speech” loosely here to include written and pictorial comments.
Corsair on March 3, 2009 at 1:33 PM
“For centuries, the West has defined freedom and liberty in individual terms, so as to keep the abuses of the state and other orthodoxies at bay. Now the UN has given away the legacy of individual freedom and endorsed the idea that criticism of Islam should somehow be actionable …”
Just another bunch of pragamatic, centrist, moderates providing solutions for the pressing needs of people worldwide.
Dusty on March 3, 2009 at 1:33 PM
Oh, I perfectly agree. Any tendency to curb First Amendment freedom is an exceedingly slippery slope, and should not even be considered unless people’s lives are at risk, IMHO.
peter_griffin on March 3, 2009 at 1:33 PM
Then all that people who dislike your ideas have to do to shut you up is to threaten to riot. Just as the Muslims have already worked out all over Europe.
Fortunata on March 3, 2009 at 1:34 PM
Thank you for the clarification, peter_griffin.
I would disagree that the intent is not drastically different though.
myrenovations on March 3, 2009 at 1:34 PM
Does anyone, besides progressives, actually listen to the drivel that comes out of the UN?
GarandFan on March 3, 2009 at 1:34 PM
Then you must agree that virtually every page of the Qu’ran is classified as hate speech?
BobMbx on March 3, 2009 at 1:35 PM
Ok…I believe in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior! Oh yea…bet that one doesn’t count in the trumping dept.
sabbott on March 3, 2009 at 1:36 PM
How about this:
They leave us the f*** alone for the rest of their short existence, and they can elect Obama “King of the UN”, a position which, obviously, will not allow him to remain president.
As a couple of bonuses, we’ll throw in Joe for WHO secretary, where he can go to third-world countries and tell starving children to stand up so everyone can see them, and Nancy Pelosi can be put in charge of UNICEF to sustain her hunger for souls to keep her alive.
MadisonConservative on March 3, 2009 at 1:36 PM
You bet…about a billion carpet pilots.
BobMbx on March 3, 2009 at 1:36 PM
Actually, what I quoted was a ruling coming out of the US Supreme Court case (Brandenburg v. Ohio, 1969). It created a “per curium” exception to First Amendment. Also, the law says the lawless action would have to be directed *against* the party who was victimized by the speech, so your point does not hold water, at least legally.
peter_griffin on March 3, 2009 at 1:37 PM
Please see my clarification comment at 1:30
Thanks
peter_griffin on March 3, 2009 at 1:38 PM
Yeah, you can be pretty sure that you’ll be served a big cup of STFU by the UN if you try that one.
Because it may offend Muslims and we can’t possibly have that.
Because then they kill people and it would be our fault, of course.
NoDonkey on March 3, 2009 at 1:38 PM
You have to listen because there are times when our government follows the UN’s lead.
Wade through the nonsense so that you are armed with information.
myrenovations on March 3, 2009 at 1:38 PM
Luckily my organs are in bad shape or I’d risk losing them just for reading your post
DarkCurrent on March 3, 2009 at 1:39 PM
So, the belief in freedom of speech trumps itself?
LOL!
Christien on March 3, 2009 at 1:40 PM
Wow. Just flaming, WOW! I never stop shaking my head in amazement at Mr. Hitchens and his fellow Atheists. It never seems to occur to them that the ONLY nations that have enjoyed INDIVIDUAL LIBERTY and INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS are those nations founded on Judeo-Christian principles. Yet Mr. Hitchens and company continually rant against the GOD of the Bible.
Exit question for Mr. Hitchens:
Under Islamic law, how much time do you think will elapse between your public pronouncement of Atheistic beliefs and the separation of your head from neck?
A.) 3 minutes
B.) 1 minute
C.) 30 seconds or less
oldleprechaun on March 3, 2009 at 1:41 PM
To what transcendent power or authority do you are Hitchens appeal to demonstrate that what was done to him or by the UN is wrong. None. Survival of the fittest. You believe, well here it is. Full frontal natural selection. Even in the realm of ideas. Your being selected right out of the gene pool of ideas and maybe of being able to stay on the planet. Boo Hoo.
inchdeep on March 3, 2009 at 1:42 PM
Incitement to riot is certainly a crime in the US. However, in the UK they banned Wilders because even though he wasn’t urging people to riot, the whackjobs reaction to him would be a riot. That is backasswards.
Blake on March 3, 2009 at 1:44 PM
Alcoholism could save your life.
MadisonConservative on March 3, 2009 at 1:44 PM
I read it. And Allah commanding his flock to kill Jews and infidels is not riotous?
But comments akin to “Jews are a lot like rats; dirty, nasty, and sneaky” is considered hate speech?
It could be that Hitler and crew made their fatal error by not basing the Reich on religous texts. If they had, things surely would be different now, eh?
BobMbx on March 3, 2009 at 1:44 PM
Remember the Islamic rageboys threatening “imminent lawless action”? Just recently, the British Home Office denied entry (and free speech) to Wilders based on this idea of keeping public order. I suppose you’re OK with that principle? Please don’t bore us with pompous legalese.
Fortunata on March 3, 2009 at 1:45 PM
2:10 Disbelievers are diseased.
2:99 Disbelievers are evil people.
2:104 For disbelievers is a painful doom.
2:171 Disbelievers are deaf, dumb, and blind.
3:28 Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in preference of believers.
3:73 Don’t believe anyone who is not a Muslim.
3:48 Don’t be friends with non-Muslims. They all hate you and want to ruin you.
4:89 Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them.
4:63 Oppose those who refuse to follow Muhammad.
4:101The disbelievers are an open enemy to you.
4:144 Do not choose disbelievers as friends.
5:51 Don’t take Jews or Christians for friends. If you do, then Allah will consider you to be one of them.
5:51 Jews and Christians are losers.
5:60 Allah turned unbelievers into apes and swine.
5:59 Jews and Christians are evil people.
9:5 Slay the disbelievers wherever you find them.
MB4 on March 3, 2009 at 1:45 PM
Counting on it ;)
DarkCurrent on March 3, 2009 at 1:47 PM
Fortunata on March 3, 2009 at 1:34 PM
That’s exactly right. Muslims in the EU have figured out how to trick the system. If they don’t like what you have to say, get some like-minded people together and torch some cars and burn flags every time you open your mouth. US muslims are working on a similar strategy, but are not quite able to silence critics so quickly and completely as in the UK. In the US they use the “racisim” charge because we don’t have draconian speech laws like most of the rest of the planet.
Freedom of speech seems so very simple but it’s our main defense against all the sorts of nastiness that we hear about in the rest of the world.
Mord on March 3, 2009 at 1:48 PM
India ? Japan ?
runner on March 3, 2009 at 1:49 PM
I am urging all Zionist and Christen forces who are working against the Islamic Holy Forces of Allah to stop their blasphemy immediately.
Otherwise, we will hold them responsible for their words. Any attempt to resists the Islamic Holy forces of Allah is pointless. We are committed to putting all of the world under our jurisdiction.
You cannot speak out against the Islamic Holy Forces of Allah. Any group that tries to resists the Islamic Holy Forces of Allah will be destroyed. The Islamic Holy Forces of Allah will overcome the Zionist and Christen infidels and their Hotair stooges.
Allah willing.
Aleph on March 3, 2009 at 1:51 PM
Please read my 1:37pm response to your quote to see why “the radicals will riot” argument is legally baseless.
Thanks
peter_griffin on March 3, 2009 at 1:52 PM
Again, please refer to my post at 1:37pm
peter_griffin on March 3, 2009 at 1:52 PM
Up until 1945, the Emperor was divine, a descendant of the Sun goddess Amaterasu.
One doesn’t go criticizing demi-gods.
Techie on March 3, 2009 at 1:53 PM
I am sure Obama sent a secret letter (in keeping with the most transparent government eva!) to the UN stating the following:
“I will, uhh, agree, with, uhh, everything you want to, uhh, do, if you will, uhh, outlaw, uhh, Conservative, uhh, talk radio.”
OooooOOooOoOh He’s so eloquent!! (faints)
Montana on March 3, 2009 at 1:53 PM
Individualism has never been at the top of the list in those nations. Quite the opposite. Of course, after the intervention of Western powers, their societies have changed, somewhat, but this goes back to the point of the post you were responding to. It was the Judeo-Christian principles that were brought to them that grew whatever amount individualism and individual liberty they now have.
progressoverpeace on March 3, 2009 at 1:55 PM
Fixed?
DarkCurrent on March 3, 2009 at 1:55 PM
India–colonial rule by Britain, while wrong, left many good things behind!
Japan–BOOM. BOOM. Peace Constitution.
Montana on March 3, 2009 at 1:55 PM
I don’t know whether you are aware of this fact, but in 2006 (I believe), the US government denied visa to an Indian politician who was accused (but never convicted) of having incited a riot in the Indian state of Gujarat which claimed hundreds of lives.
peter_griffin on March 3, 2009 at 1:57 PM
President Sexton, is that you?
DrSteve on March 3, 2009 at 1:58 PM
When did Wilders himself incite a riot?
MadisonConservative on March 3, 2009 at 1:59 PM
What does that make the ancient society of Greece?
peter_griffin on March 3, 2009 at 1:59 PM
I never said he did. I just wanted to provide an example where even the US government tried to block someone because they wanted to preemptively stop a riot.
peter_griffin on March 3, 2009 at 2:01 PM
So what? Who we let into our country is our decision and has nothing to do with freedom of speech on our land. No one has the right to come into our country. I don’t know where you think you are headed with this. Do you harbor some intense hate for the idea of national sovereignty?
progressoverpeace on March 3, 2009 at 2:02 PM
In Europe we should defend freedom of speech like you Americans do. In Europe freedom of speech should be extended, instead of restricted. Of course, calling for violence or unjustly yelling “fire” in a crowded theater have to be punished, but the right to criticize ideologies or religions are necessary conditions for a vital democracy. As George Orwell once said: “If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
Let us defend freedom of speech and let us gain strength and work hard to become even stronger. Millions think just like you and me. Millions think liberty is precious. That democracy is better than Shariah. And after all, why should we be afraid? Our many freedoms and our prosperity are the result of centuries of endeavor. Centuries of hard work and sacrifice. We do not stand alone.
Ladies and gentlemen, our enemies should know: we will never apologize for being free men, we will never give in. We will never surrender. There is no stronger power than the force of free men fighting for the great cause of liberty. Because freedom is the birthright of all man. Freedom must prevail, and freedom will prevail.
- Geert Wilders
MB4 on March 3, 2009 at 2:04 PM
Dead?
DarkCurrent on March 3, 2009 at 2:04 PM
Then why are we discussing UK’s decision to deport Wilders, who is not a British citizen?
peter_griffin on March 3, 2009 at 2:04 PM
NoDonkey at 1:38
Exactly! I think this form of brainlessness is fatal and I fear it is also irreversible. How can we have any semblance of a decent society when we’re dealing with people this stupid?
justincase on March 3, 2009 at 2:05 PM
If you can’t respond intelligently to a question, please don’t waste the bandwidth. Here are my points, very clearly spelt out for you:
(1) the ancient society of Greece was very insistent on individualism
(2) it was not based off of Judeo-Christian values.
Tutorial time over. Now, I await your response with bated breath …
peter_griffin on March 3, 2009 at 2:06 PM
You provided an example of someone who incited a riot to compare to someone who didn’t.
What the hell kind of comparison is that?
MadisonConservative on March 3, 2009 at 2:06 PM
Extinct. The fact that you have to go back 2000 years should say something to you. Greek philosophy is certainly one of the foundations of Western Civilization, and was a source of individualism, but it was Judeo-Christian culture that brought us from then to now.
progressoverpeace on March 3, 2009 at 2:07 PM
Because we want Great Britain to be more like Winston Churchill and less like Neville Chamberlain.
MB4 on March 3, 2009 at 2:07 PM
So while I’m disbelieving I should avoid eating a bacon, lettuce, and tomato sandwich?
Limerick on March 3, 2009 at 2:08 PM
So, like we do for the Liberal/Conservative or White/Black debates… let’s flip the players and see what we end up with:
Yeah… I’d like to see that.
The United Nations Resolution 62/154 speaks to the question of intolerance of Islam in the preambles, but in the action segment, speaks only to a general religious intolerance… certainly they wish it to apply to the defamation of Islam, but would it not also apply to defamation of Jews, Christians, Hindu, Anamists, etc?
It’s bad idea all around, for the obvious reasons. But somehow I think their own blinders have led them into something of a trap…
Mr Michael on March 3, 2009 at 2:08 PM
Because the EU set itself up to emulate the US – EU rules allow free movement within the EU, as within the US. The proper comparison would be if New Jersey didn’t allow a Pennsylvanian to enter the state because of some problems with his speech.
progressoverpeace on March 3, 2009 at 2:09 PM
Please read my quote (which you quoted) once more, the key operating term there is “preemptively”. On a purely legal basis, US action in 2006 was based on the exact same grounds as Wilders v/s UK this year.
peter_griffin on March 3, 2009 at 2:09 PM
Can we declare war on the U.N.?
ObamatheMessiah on March 3, 2009 at 2:11 PM
I agree with your point, just found a soft spot in your argument. Ancient Greece is dead.
DarkCurrent on March 3, 2009 at 2:11 PM
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