Police video shows disturbing response to teen assault, plus poll
posted at 2:17 pm on March 1, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
Any of us who have parented teenagers know how frustrating they can be, and one has to imagine that police officers know that better than most. Most of the time, they react better than Deputy Paul Schene did in this video, after a 15-year-old girl responded to a demand that she remove her shoes by flipping one at Schene. He then charged into the cell and now faces criminal prosecution (via QandO):
The video shows Schene and Brunner as they escorted the girl into the holding cell. Schene had asked her to remove her basketball shoes, and, as she slipped out of her left shoe, she appeared to kick it at Schene.
Schene then lunged through the door and kicked her, striking either her stomach or upper thigh area, court documents say. He pushed her against a corner wall before flinging her to the floor by her hair. He then squatted down on her and made “two overhead strikes,” although it’s unclear where the blows landed.
The detective who reviewed the video said it appeared Schene and Brunner had the girl under control when Schene struck her. Schene, who is 6 feet 2 and weighs 195 pounds, did not explain his action to investigators, court documents say.
He and the girl exchanged words. Brunner said she was “real lippy” after being informed she was under arrest and called them “fat pigs.”
The Sheriff’s Office policy manual says deputies should use physical or deadly force only when “necessary to effect an arrest, to defend themselves or others from violence, or to otherwise accomplish police duties according to law.”
Normally, we give police a lot of leeway to control violent or obstructive arrestees, and for good reason. It’s dangerous to second-guess how an officer reacts in two ways. First, in many instances, we don’t get a chance to see the larger context, in which an officer may see a threat not depicted in later exploration of video clips. Second, it pressures law-enforcement personnel to act too passively in situations requiring greater control, leading to dangerous and even deadly incidents.
In this case, though, it’s difficult to see any context in which Schene could justify his actions. Presumably, the teen had already been searched for weapons and was in fairly firm custody at the jail. She committed an assault by flipping the shoe at Schene (and battery if she actually hit him), but she represented no threat at all, nor were there any threats in the vicinity of the secure detention facility. Even before he punched her in the head twice, Schene used an excessive level of force clearly intended for punitive action rather than to secure the girl.
The defense did not want the video released before the trial because it would “inflame public opinion”. I’d guess that would be the case, but the video is publicly owned by the Seattle taxpayers who paid for it. Would the police have released it if the video showed Schene properly reacting to a real threat? I’m betting yes.
What do Hot Air readers think? Did Schene overreact, and does he deserve prosecution?
Blowback
Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.
Trackbacks/Pings
Trackback URL
Comments
Comment pages: « Previous 1 … 4 5 6 7 Next »
I bet this mouthy little smart ass bitch doesn’t mess with a cop anymore.
Sad thing is, she’s now a millionaire.
Crab Pot on March 2, 2009 at 8:41 AM
you nailed it crab. nothing more to say…
the only good thing was the surprise the little strumpet showed when her smartass little kick actually resulted in a response…
little bitch’ll never work again a day in her life…
max1 on March 2, 2009 at 9:28 AM
And then there’s this in the LATIMES today.:
unclesmrgol on March 2, 2009 at 9:29 AM
I’d be the first to criticize Palin for anything but lumping all of her supporters as supporting this is just to broad of a brush. Many of her supporters wouldn’t support this nonsense. At the same time there is a definite authoritarian streak in the “conservative” movement that I find very troubling. I just don’t see how people can believe in limited government, for reasons similar to this, government abuses of their power, and then come out and support this stuff. It reminds me of the anti-gay conservatives that are closeted homosexuals themselves. I think as far as this is concerned there is just a certain percentage of the general population that deep down inside want to be dominated by powerful government, regardless of ideology. Frankly I think it has to do with some kind of masochistic sexual complex that is going on in their unconscious.
LevStrauss on March 2, 2009 at 9:32 AM
He should lose his job over this. There’s no place for that kind of response. We had this type of thing happen here where a sheriff mauled a kid and the report was the opposite. It went to court and the sheriff thought he would win the case but a neighbor filmed the whole thing. The sheriff lost his job.
mixplix on March 2, 2009 at 9:34 AM
mixplix on March 2, 2009 at 9:34 AM
Yeah it really makes you think just how many he said (s)he said situations that there were no videos for. What really worries me is when I watch late night TV or garbage TV during the daytime like Maury. As someone who takes a side interest in marketing I am always interested to see what the marketers actually think of you, just view the totality of all the commercials that they are targeting at you. During shows like Maury and the mindless garbage late at night they advertise for herpes creams, bad credit, votech training, and criminal justice. I just wonder how many policemen we got from those commercials and cringe.
LevStrauss on March 2, 2009 at 9:39 AM
Symbolically the girl is Rush Limbaugh and the cop is Obama. So deal with it conservatives. That’s what you get if you don’t shut your stupid pie-holes.
miles on March 2, 2009 at 9:46 AM
I’m guessing Governor Palin’s views on whether LEOs always exercise bulletproof judgment have become more nuanced over the years. Know what I’m saying? That’s what made eh’s comments so galling.
Plenty of people on both sides fetishize power, though, so let’s not save all our criticism for the right. Henry Waxman pops a puptent every time he drags a witness before a committee, and it’s the same damned mechanism at work. Tell me I’m wrong.
DrSteve on March 2, 2009 at 9:48 AM
Good question. Plenty of Palin supporters here think this cop should be tried and imprisoned.
MadisonConservative on March 2, 2009 at 9:51 AM
A question I’ve posed before to many like him/her/it that never gets a response.
I’m convinced that eh and people like him/her/it have a deep lack of self-esteem coupled with masochistic tendencies. I would also suggest that they lead very lonely, powerless lives.
In short, they need to be here. It’s the only attention they get in their otherwise dull and meaningless lives. The best thing you can do, which is the worst thing for them, is to ignore them. When you understand that they need you to respond to their drivel it makes it much easier to ignore them.
And I vow to make a much better attempt at doing that – starting – again – now.
Rod on March 2, 2009 at 9:52 AM
@miles
ehh, i was thinking the cop was obama, the kid was the american people…
Its funny to see libs get their panties in a bunch over an entertainer that has never run for office.
“I like to tweek liberals, its so easy to do”
-Rush Limbaugh
RiteWingFascist on March 2, 2009 at 9:54 AM
It’s obvious that this officer did not conduct himself professionally and he certainly should receive reprimand and punishment for his assault of this girl. HOWEVER, this little spoiled brat just got a taste of what she would have faced in the REAL world. You mouth off to the wrong person at a club or on a street corner and you’ll be luck if all you get is your little behind slammed down to the concrete. She should take this a lesson learned and next time STOP STEALING CARS, DUMMY…
sothinbelle on March 2, 2009 at 9:54 AM
I don’t have time to read all the comments, but saw someone indicate that a lot of conservatives are on the cop’s side here. I am (a) as conservative as they come; (b) the brother of an officer killed in the line of duty, thus more inclined than some to take the officer’s side in cases of controversial use of force; and (c) unable to see any way to justify what went on in that tape.
Being conservative means placing a high priority on law and order. As such, we respect the importance of police officers, and generally extend to them the benefit of the doubt. But they too must be held accountable for their actions, lest they become a force for tyranny instead of for protection of our freedoms. This officer shamed himself and his department, and set back the cause of law and order.
I’ve no doubt she was a mouthy little punk, and the officers were fed up. In an ideal world, this girl’s Daddy would have been there to turn her over his knee for being so disrespectful. She deserves punishment, not only for her initial crime but also possibly for resisting arrest. But calling her little smartie-pants shoe kick “assault” is a joke. And for the cop to go all rubber hose on her like he did was a serious abuse of his power. There was no volatile situation. They were in a holding cell where escape was not possible. And she was removing her shoes, however disrespectful her attitude. Maybe he could have warned her that what she was doing was assault, and she would be charged if she did it again. But beating her up was just totally stupid and irresponsible — “evil”, as we conservatives call it.
Fire him, without question; then charge him with aggravated assault. If there are extenuating circumstances, maybe he should get probation and counseling; we don’t know enough to determine that.
And brother and sister conservatives, if you’ve taken the cop’s side on this one, even a little bit — may I respectfully suggest you take a fresh look.
RegularJoe on March 2, 2009 at 9:58 AM
If we’re gonna talk symbolism here. I’d say the cop is Ted Kennedy. He also thinks it’s okay to hurt young woman and get away with it.
sothinbelle on March 2, 2009 at 10:01 AM
See? Here’s another example of my previous post. How else could you explain a post like this?
Rod on March 2, 2009 at 10:01 AM
I forgot about that who Troopergate thing. Good point.
I didn’t say that the left doesn’t feel the same way, I was speaking as a limited government type about other supposed limited government types, but I also qualified that not all in the right are like that and I said exactly what you said here.
You bring up Waxman, I am more concerned about the public stonings through the MSM in the upcoming future, IRS intimidation, and Zeus knows what else once this welfare/warfare state kicks into high gear. I really think we are going toward a WWI/WWII hybrid situation where we get the worst of both. New Deals, more globalization, a large worldwide conflict, decade long depression, a Woodrow Wilson like President, etc. I criticize the right here a lot because it is a Republican blog and in principle I agree with much, would like to see it actually carried out some time in my lifetime, but the Dems right now are very scary, they are definitely carrying out their “American Promise”, but I always ask, to “who”? My answer always is “whoever lines their pockets” and “their promise to Europe to standardize the Atlantic Community, meaning European Socialism.
LevStrauss on March 2, 2009 at 10:05 AM
Well done Joe. +10
DarkCurrent on March 2, 2009 at 10:06 AM
She is young and stupid. Lack of respect for an officer. Young girl needed to get a quick beating. She will sue and get paid and he will lose his lively hood for some low life 15 year old. She will prob be a drug addict, prostitute or stripper and that is based on statistics. Once a teen hits the justice system they will be back. Stop putting cameras everywhere and officers will gain the respect they deserve. There is a reason people respected cops not so long ago.
Tremmy on March 2, 2009 at 10:07 AM
Maybe we should just codify that in law so there’s no problems for the officers even if the cameras are there.
/s
DarkCurrent on March 2, 2009 at 10:14 AM
Yes, there is a reason people respected cops; but what you’re talking about is FEAR, which a different attitude entirely.
People respected cops because they were raised by parents and teachers who told them to respect the police. Now, parents sue police departments for the most trivial reasons. Kids grow up hearing Mom & Dad bad-mouth the police.
People respected cops because for every bad cop portrayed in a movie, there were probably fifty good ones (a ratio much closer to reality), whereas now they are all “flawed” and “human” (translation: vicious bastards who take out their bad marriage on “perps”).
People respected cops because cops took away the bad guys, and the bad guys didn’t come back, because courts would lock them up.
As we have systematically made police work less respectable, we’ve necessarily lowered the number of first-rate applicants. Jerks like the guy in the video just make it that much harder for the good cops to do their jobs, and for departments to hire good cops.
RegularJoe on March 2, 2009 at 10:19 AM
After watching the video it is clear he is a bad cop who abused the trust and power the people gave him. Whatever the girls crime, you can bet she is off with it because of this officers action. What would he have done if she had been a big burly man who did the same thing? Nothing but cower in the corner and write him up I bet. This is just a smart mouthed little girl who thinks she’s a grown up. This big little man lost his cool. Sad, very sad.
She probably will get a settlement from the city. Since she is only 15 you can bet this is going a long way. She is a minor. She was fully in police control before he assaulted her. That video will send him to prison. After what this deranged cop did to her she deserves justice and the people will once again have to pay for an errant officers crime. It’s cops like this who give all cops a bad name. Most officers are just and honorable people. I was sorry to see this idiot taint their reputation.
kanda on March 2, 2009 at 10:22 AM
That is true I will admit, here you’ll find people wanting to side with a law enforcement officer. Sometimes they go to far in defending them as in this case. That officer was clearly way over the top.
If you want people who sympathize with murderers and terrorists, hop over to DKos. So I’m not sure you’re making quite the case you think you are.
Dash on March 2, 2009 at 10:32 AM
Well said. Agreed.
Dash on March 2, 2009 at 10:34 AM
My opinion is that people respected cops because laws were more local in the past. The federalization and militarization of the police forces are due to the consolidation of power to the federal. It has changed how law enforcement is done in many areas and have disconnected the local police from their neighbors. The whole mindset seems kind of warped now. The fact that people look federally for “change” means that they are looking much less at the actions of their local government, thus there is less scrutiny.
LevStrauss on March 2, 2009 at 10:35 AM
Even before he punched her in the head twice,
Do you have x-ray vision Ed? Because from hat I saw her fat head was in the way of seeing whether the offcier’s hand connected with her face, the floor, or her hand while she was struggling not to get in the cuffs.
max1 on March 2, 2009 at 10:37 AM
If a parent beat there childlike this, they would be charged with child abuse. The girl took her parents car..she didnt murder someone,nor did she abuse that cop. She called him a fat pig and flipped her shoe off the same way my daughter does.
I hope the parents do sue.
becki51758 on March 2, 2009 at 10:40 AM
Respect is a two way street. Even for police. We the people respect the police authority and their badge. When police officers act like this cop did it is disrespecting the people. Mutual respect for each other is what we had in the past. The disrespect cuts both ways and if it continues things will get worse.
Apparently, you find it easy to toss the girl aside and determine what her life will be like. You know nothing about this kid? If she were your child would you say the same thing? I find it interesting you talk about statistics but make no reference to the statistics that show the kids who change their lives for the better. I hope in 15 years you learn that she has proven you wrong. I know statistics say it is not probable, but they don’t say it is not possible. There is a middle ground between giving up on them and the liberal victimization that keeps them down. It’s called love and patience and mentoring and setting a good example and reward and yes even punishment. It’s not abuse. This cop obviously didn’t handle the situation in an appropriate matter. There is no way to justify his behavior even if she turns out to be all the things you predict for her.
kanda on March 2, 2009 at 10:44 AM
So, it’s okay to lie and say the officer punched her in the head or chest or torso when the video does not show that, he has not been charged with punching her and the juvenile does not complain of head, chest, nor torso pain? It’s okay for this to be characterized as a “vicious beating” when the injuries, as reported by the juvenile were minimal? It’s okay to demand that the officer be treated “like everyone else” and in the same breath demand “he be treated more harshly because he is a cop”? It’s okay to demand the officer be sent to prison when if this was in any other situation it would at most be a misdemeanor? It’s okay to lie and say you know what was said or not said even though there was no sound attached to the video? Maybe, you are the one who needs to take a fresh look.
Blake on March 2, 2009 at 10:47 AM
Do you have x-ray vision max? Because from what I can see from the video, she isn’t struggling not to get in the cuffs.
Tomblvd on March 2, 2009 at 10:48 AM
There is some truth to what you say here. Heck, there are a lot of things — the “Cops” TV show, the increase in patrolling from inside a car instead of walking a beat, even the “dressing down” of the uniform — when my brother first became an officer, in 1979, he had to wear a hat and a tie. Four years later, when he was killed, neither was part of the uniform. Nor does it help when, in many jurisdictions, there has come to be a level of crime below which the police scarcely investigate. In many places, if something of only a few hundred dollars’ value is stolen, and a residence isn’t entered, they take the report over the phone.
We could have good discussions over all of these other problems; but since the subject matter here is this officer beating up Punky Shoe-ster, it’ll suffice to say that actions like this do not reflect well upon the men and women in blue.
RegularJoe on March 2, 2009 at 10:49 AM
I saw a report on Fox this AM. She called the cop a fat pig and they showed a video of before she went into the holding cell. She was calm and was not out of control.
Perhaps everyone needs to look at other news organizations reporting since they show more than this video does.
becki51758 on March 2, 2009 at 10:50 AM
Ok, how ’bout this?
Symbolically the cop is the Global Warming Hoax and the girl is all you Smart-Mouth-Bitches-Who-Doubt-It.
miles on March 2, 2009 at 10:52 AM
If abuse of a strawman were a crime Blake, you’d be in prison for life.
Nice cherry-picking.
Oh and you never did answer my question as to when she allegedely “refused orders” considering they told her to take off her shoes, and while she was doing that she was attacked. When was she supposed to have refused his orders?
Tomblvd on March 2, 2009 at 10:52 AM
Already done.
Tomblvd on March 2, 2009 at 10:55 AM
I should have said…those who think it was ok to beat this girl should look at other reporting. ;)
becki51758 on March 2, 2009 at 10:59 AM
Wow. This cop is obviously too thin skinned to be in the position of power that he is in. I’ve raised 2 daughters and went through plenty of hell when they were teens. I’ve listened to all sorts of threats, taunts and even endured physical abuse from one of them, to the point of having a massive bruise on my shin for a few months. At no point did I ever lay into my kids physically, although the temptation was soooooo strong. Physical attacks only make the existing problems WORSE; never really solves anything. I’d sure hate to see this guy handle a 2-year-old! I say fire his arse and let him see the jail cell from the other side for a while. He has abused his power and cost the citizens some money, for sure.
fullogas on March 2, 2009 at 11:02 AM
Do you have x-ray vision max? Because from what I can see from the video, she isn’t struggling not to get in the cuffs.
Tomblvd on March 2, 2009 at 10:48 AM
I’ll meet you halfway there Tomb… it is difficult to tell wheteher she’s struggling to stay out of restraints, but it is impossible to tell whether the officer connected with either of the two “punches”…he could just as easily have slapped the floor…
max1 on March 2, 2009 at 11:02 AM
You apparently have read info I’ve not seen, and for purposes of our discussion I’ll take it at face value. Maybe her injuries were minor; if so, that’s good. You know what would be better? If she WASN’T INJURED! You can’t tell from the video where the officer is punching, but he’s punching somewhere. Why? What could possibly be the justification? Why, in fact, did they rush her at all? I don’t have any problem with her being punished for her actions; but other than exigent circumstances — which were NOT present in this case — there is no excuse for use of violent force. Before any punishment is carried out, the accused have a right to due process.
As for the idea of the cop going to prison, you may have missed it where I said “probation and counseling might be appropriate”.
And as for the idea that I know what was said… HUH?? I made no such claim. Maybe you’re thinking of someone else’s post.
There was a sports guy who had a radio show in Dallas a few years back, named Norm Hitzges. He would occasionally share bits of wisdom from his mother, “Mama Hitzges”. One of them was her definition of a fanatic: “a person who, having lost site of his goal, redoubles his efforts.” I fear some of you have lost site of the goal, which is a just and well-ordered society of laws, and redoubled your efforts to just blindly support anyone wearing a police uniform no matter what. You can’t exempt the police from their responsibilities under the law without making them tyrants.
RegularJoe on March 2, 2009 at 11:04 AM
Here is one thing not discussed. Maybe she is in to pain and enjoyed the beat down.
workingforpigs on March 2, 2009 at 11:05 AM
huh?
“Being conservative means placing a high priority on law and order”
I thought being a conservative meant placing a high priority on JUSTICE.
As a libertarian I’m equally scared of both liberals and (now) “conservatives”.
Remember, it’s “conservatives” (and liberals too) who refuse to recognize that the “war on (some) drugs” is a cure worse than the disease.
But, back to this video. If this is the kind of behavior from cops that “conservatives” accept, then you’ll get what you deserve eventually.
robscottw on March 2, 2009 at 11:09 AM
It’s not difficult to see her thrown up against the wall head first and hair dragged to the floor, though.
“slapped the floor”? I’m guessing you’re not serious.
Dash on March 2, 2009 at 11:12 AM
No cherry picking. Just recounting the numerous exaggerations and lies people have posted.
One, I don’t take orders from you and this is the last time I am going to respond to this boneheaded argument of yours. Two, you have no idea what was said because there is no sound. Therefore, you can not say she did not refuse.
Blake on March 2, 2009 at 11:13 AM
As a 20 year veteran of juvenile corrections, working in booking, let me enlighten everyone.
It’s highly doubtful that the incident that is making the video that is making rounds, is the full story. This “incident did not start in the holding cell. It began at the time of arrest, continued during the drive to the facility, and picked up during booking! During arrest, the deputy was regaled with every filthy epipthet known to man. During the ride to the facility the filthy mouth assault continued, and more than likely was accompanied by kicking the windows and seats of the county car. This is often followed by spitting. Just a typical scenario, on a typical shift, for these law enforcement officers.
Now to one of my own experiences with this type of incident.
Out of control female, refusing direct orders by staff, and not responding to verbal intervention, had to be “taken down” to prevent injury to herself and staff. A few minutes into the incident she had a death grip on the hair on the side of my head. Even with two other staff helping, they couldn’t get her let go of the toilet and my hair. I lost a large portion of my hair, my scalp was bleeding and the side of my head was swollen for almost a week. Looking back, I would have been within my rights to do what I needed to to make her let go. The cameras in these cells cannot pick up ALL of the activity going on. I’ve seen perps lock on with their teeth, and the staff ended up with bleeding bite marks.
Having said that, minus the above examples, the deputy crossed the line. But, I can understand his frustration level.
Don’t ever assume you know the whole story from watching a video.
hopefloats on March 2, 2009 at 11:16 AM
He didn’t order anything. He asked you a question. You really do have your entire manhood based in cyberspace.
MadisonConservative on March 2, 2009 at 11:17 AM
On this point we can agree and not only for the reason you cite. Liberals will do it for our own good. It is their duty to protect us fro ourselves.
I am reminded of George Orwells 1984 where the government had cameras in all homes and apartments. No one could excape “Big Brother”. SounD familiar? Isn’t it odd that we see cameras going up everywhere in the name of security. On roads, in stores, at malls. There is an undercurrent that people do not have the right to privacy in a public setting. Hmmmmm….who determines what is or isn’t a public setting? Why government of course…interesting isn’t it? Ask yourself when will the liberals determine privacy is the root of all evil and put them in our home. Think it can’t happen. Heck many of us already have video security at home so with just one simple law government can tap in. It will be for our own good I’m sure. The governemnt has our best interest at heart. Right? Mark my words first the liberals will take away our privacy. Then they will take are liberty. That’s why republicans must get back to our roots of conservatism. We are the only group left holding back the hordes of “progressives” who believe in utopia and the power of dialog. They say “oh gee if we could only get along”. They mean “as long as you do it my way”. It’s my way or the highway. If they can’t get us willingly they are going to force us into compliance. It’s a liberal mindset.
You say how does that tie in with this little girl? This cop has to be a liberal victim. A conservative would never act the way he did. They would follow the rules and have written her up at worst.
kanda on March 2, 2009 at 11:18 AM
Do you mean Blake, or the little girl in the video?
DarkCurrent on March 2, 2009 at 11:20 AM
Or something. Very odd that he’s twisting himself in knots to excuse something like this.
JohnTant on March 2, 2009 at 11:21 AM
soory are liberty should be our liberty…but you all knew that
kanda on March 2, 2009 at 11:22 AM
Read your own damn post. You are the one who said:
Well, I am the one who has been battling all the liars, exaggerators, and the ones that hate cops on these threads and I gave you examples of the false crap that has been posted. I will not apologize for not jumping in line with a pitchfork and torch with the mob.
Works both ways, buddy.
Uh, who gives a shit? Is it that hard to stick with the facts of this case and not go off on tangents?
Blake on March 2, 2009 at 11:23 AM
I’m sticking to the reported facts. It is you and your ilk who are twisting themselves into knots by making up things.
Blake on March 2, 2009 at 11:26 AM
You’re such a martyr, you.
Any time a cop goes over the line, and people call for charges against the officer, it’s just a mob with pitchforks.
I really hope you don’t claim to be a small-government conservative. At least be honest about that.
MadisonConservative on March 2, 2009 at 11:26 AM
M
They don’t need to know when they can just make crap up.
Blake on March 2, 2009 at 11:27 AM
“slapped the floor”? I’m guessing you’re not serious.
Dash on March 2, 2009 at 11:12 AM
and I don’t even have to guess that you have zero experience in any real-life take-down scenario. If the little twit contiued to squirm and resist restraint then the offcier may indeed have slapped the floor next to her ears tyo command her attention (what little there is of it anyway) or slapped her flailing arms….
max1 on March 2, 2009 at 11:28 AM
The girl called the cop a “fat pig”. Thats not threatening to me….and Ive heard people call cops worst things.
She stole her parents car, they didnt know she had it and called the police. She walked into the holding cell calmly, was asked to remove her shoes, which she did the same way all teenagers did and for that had her head smashed into the wall. Totally uncalled for.
Those are the facts.
becki51758 on March 2, 2009 at 11:28 AM
This is the second time you accused me of making things up.
What, exactly, did I make up?
And do everyone a favor and spare us the Profiles in Courage routine. It’s tired.
JohnTant on March 2, 2009 at 11:30 AM
Someone pointed out that the report linked above quoted the assisting officer as describing the girl as “lippy”. You dismissed it because we weren’t in the room at the time, therefore throwing out the entire report.
You’re not sticking to anything but your belief that all police brutality is warranted.
MadisonConservative on March 2, 2009 at 11:34 AM
I haven’t followed all the thread so I’m jumping into this one.
Blake, I see you making the same points over and over again. Some are pretending to not understand in an effort to trip you up so they can jump on some minor point. I know it is frustrating that you appear to not be getting your point across with some of the people here. You are. Some people just like to argue. When you see them holding on to the same point that is obviously wrong they only show their ignorance. I just finished such an event over in one of the threads about Obama missing the american legion heros ball recently. He did better and had a real inagural ball for the military but that doesn’t matter to some. The only way to end something like this is to just stop replying to their post. Let them get their last word in and think they won. No matter how much you have to bite your tongue. It builds their esteem for themselves but does not help with their arrogance. They’ll feel better and more importantly without an audience thay will go away.
kanda on March 2, 2009 at 11:35 AM
Police brutality is never warranted. Self Defense is. Clearly this was not a case of self defense. This was an abuse of authority.
kanda on March 2, 2009 at 11:39 AM
I wasn’t ordering you to do anything. I was pointing out that there was a specific timeline that you couldn’t wiggle out of. The only reason you call it “bonehead” is because you cannot explain it away.
The officer, per the article, asked the girl to remove her shoes. At 8 seconds into the video we see her kick her shoe off at the officer and at 9 seconds the officer is already bull-rushing her.
Now, you say they went after her for “refusing orders”, yet you cannot say when that happened. N.B., I am NOT asking what was or wasn’t said, I am asking when in the timeline she would have had the opportunity to refuse an order.
You can’t do that, so you ignore the question then start your martyr schtick.
Tomblvd on March 2, 2009 at 11:42 AM
I read all six pages before I posted. I was just not sure inside how I felt. On one hand I think the Officer and his partner should be fired, on the spot. As far as legal action, he will, I’m sure, be sued, and lose. He will pay a huge price for his dishonorable action. I can find no justification for the beat down the hoodlum took.
On the other hand, you do wonder, at least I do, why young punks feel empowered to mouth off at adults. Not just in this case, but in classrooms, in the mall, at the store, everywhere. You see these young punks killing, stealing, into gangs, void of all bounderies and morals and values. First if my son had ever mouthed off to a Police Officer, his Teacher, eve a freinds parent, I would have kicked his ass… and he knew it, without question, so he never did and I never had to… My point is that where are this girls parents, her values, her morals? What responsibility does she have? Our culture today tells kids to do whatever, no one will stop them… Parents want to be friends, or are not around… Kids are so disrespectful these days.
Still no excuse for the Officers, he’s toast, and should be…
*** And btw, for all the trolls saying Palin supporters all support the Cops or Conservatives all support the “white guys”… I’m as hard core Conservative as HA has, and I do not support the Cops… So again trolls are ignorant…
Mark Garnett on March 2, 2009 at 11:42 AM
I think the cops should have every right in the world to knock that girl out if she won’t stop jabbing with her mouth. She was trying to get a response, well she got one now deal with it and next time maybe you won’t run your mouth. BUT NO SHE WILL SUE AND BE AWARDED FOR BEING A YOUNG CRIMINAL. Right there is the fundamental problem with the United States. Cop will be fired if not rioting will be insane esp. with this high level of unemployment. The girl will get paid. Stop taking power from the people that should have it.
Tremmy on March 2, 2009 at 11:43 AM
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/025593.html
My self esteem is fine, thank you very much. If you think it is Ok to beat the hell out of a 15 yr old then you are as bad as he is.
becki51758 on March 2, 2009 at 11:43 AM
You people are wack.
This cop is nothing more than a bully – a bully with a GUN. Idiot cop like this will eventually shoot someone dead and then put a pistol in their hand.
That little girl didn’t even flip her shoe at him, it obviously was away from him. Big tough guy, throwing around a little girl like that. And that other cop just sitting there going along for the ride? He should be in jail too, spineless jellyfish.
If this is how you want cops to treat the populace, you should go live in China or Iran. Idiots.
KMC1 on March 2, 2009 at 11:45 AM
If that’s the way you feel, you might want to take a closer look at Blake’s posts.
Tomblvd on March 2, 2009 at 11:45 AM
More info here
Here’s a transcript of an interview with the girl that happened today.
CHEN: Joining us now for an exclusive interview, Malika Calhoun and her father, Curtiss. Good morning to you both.
MALIKA CALHOUN, POLICE BEATING VICTIM: Good morning.
CHEN: Malika, let me begin with you. What do you remember about the beating?
M. CALHOUN: I remember the way he just came in after I kicked my shoe off, and we were arguing back and forth all night since the arrest happened. And just…
CHEN: What were you arguing about back and forth all night?
M. CALHOUN: Just the way he was talking to me, and we were just, I don’t know, he just had an attitude…
CHEN: Which was how?
M. CALHOUN: … with everything.
CHEN: How was he talking to you when he arrested you?
M. CALHOUN: He was being — just talking about us in rude ways, making rude comments about things, like, oh, you guys steal cars, and it wasn’t
– technically, we didn’t steal the car. We were just borrowing my friend’s mom’s car without permission. We used it without permission.
CHEN: And then what was the exchange going on between you and the officer in the cell during the beating?
M. CALHOUN: He first, when he first came in, where I kicked the shoe off at him, and I was about to take my other one off, he said, you know, it’s assaulting an officer. And that’s when he charged in and started beating me. And I was yelling. I was like, this isn’t — I’m not resisting. I’m not resisting. And he said, whether you’re resisting or not, that was assault.
Then he just kept doing it and kept going and going.
CHEN: Why did you kick the shoe off at him?
M. CALHOUN: Because my arms were folded, and I was upset with the way he was talking to me. And I was talking back to him. And I just took it off. And I was ready to take off my other shoe, and then that’s what happened.
CHEN: Did the shoe hit him?
M. CALHOUN: No, it didn’t hit him at all. I was standing in the inside of the door, and he was standing holding the door open. Didn’t hit him, and he was saying that it made blood pockets and stuff, and it didn’t even hit him at all.
CHEN: Tell me about the beating. How hard was it?
M. CALHOUN: It was horrible, like my head hit the wall when he first came in and kicked me. And then my head hit the wall in the back. And then he kept — threw me to the ground, was pulling my hair constantly.
And it was just horrible.
CHEN: Were you screaming for him to stop?
M. CALHOUN: Yes. I said, I’m not resisting. I’m not resisting.
CHEN: And what did he say?
M. CALHOUN: He didn’t say anything back until after, when I was like, I didn’t resist. And he said, well, it was still assaulting an officer.
CHEN: Curtiss, let me turn to you. This video’s so difficult to watch. What did you think the first time you saw it?
CURTISS CALHOUN, FATHER OF POLICE BEATING VICTIM: I didn’t see it the first time until Friday evening, when I got home from work, and it was very disturbing. I didn’t know it was this severe of an assault.
CHEN: What do you want to see happen to this officer? He’s currently on administrative leave. If he’s found guilty, he could spend one year behind bars. What do each of you want to see happen to this officer?
Curtiss?
C. CALHOUN: As far as what happens to him, I wouldn’t like to see him work as a police officer anymore. I don’t think that’s the job for him, based on the way he reacted. Dealing with people, I don’t think he can respond that way and still be an officer.
CHEN: Malika, in the last five seconds, what do you want to see happen to him?
M. CALHOUN: I just want to — I don’t know — justice. I don’t want this to happen to anyone else.
CHEN: Malika and Curtiss Calhoun, thank you.
M. CALHOUN: Thank you.
Sydney Carton on March 2, 2009 at 11:49 AM
Just a note, um, linking to Lew Rockwell is NOT the way to make a case here. The dude is a loon.
MadisonConservative on March 2, 2009 at 11:50 AM
I’d say about $3.5 million worth of her being the “innocent” little 15 year old punk…
Cop is still wrong, but so is paying a crimanal teen…
Cop loses job (he should) and girl gets rich being a turd, great life lesson for all the other punks out there, just get a Cop mad enough, piss him off enough and WIN THE LOTTERY… Remember, I am NOT defending the Police here…
But still… What are we teaching… Who’s next to collect?
Mark Garnett on March 2, 2009 at 11:54 AM
Well if bashing a 15 year old child into a wall and hair dragging her to the floor didnt get her attention… sure I can see why you’d slap the floor. That would certainly do it.
Dash on March 2, 2009 at 11:54 AM
Not having been arrested, I’m wondering if it’s normal for policemen to trash talk prisoners. I hear stories from acquaintances who have had the pleasure of involuntarily riding in police cars and I’m told there is a bit of, shall we say, pee pee waving on the parts of some cops.
I guess I figure that if a cop doesn’t want to deal with mouthy prisoners, engaging them in conversation isn’t the best way to avoid the ordeal.
JohnTant on March 2, 2009 at 11:55 AM
I think that, notwithstanding the protests of deluded cop-worshippers like Blake, reasonable people can clearly see that this bad cop acted improperly. The police are going to have to learn that they can’t sweep their bad cops under a rug anymore, hiding them from the public. They’re going to have to deal with their bad cops openly, as more people become aware of things like this.
I hope this guy goes to prision.
Sydney Carton on March 2, 2009 at 11:56 AM
And what do you hope happens to the little future thug car thief? My guess is she’ll go free, with huge appologies and a fat paycheck of 3.5 million or so… And laugh all the way to the bank… How come we haven’t heard the word “racist” yet?
Mark Garnett on March 2, 2009 at 11:59 AM
The cop’s pretty clearly out of line, but I’d take less severe punishment for him than getting fired if this existed in a vacuum. If this was just about what the cop deserved, he was in service of the people, he deals with things that we desperately don’t want to deal with, and once he snapped. What career opportunities is this guy going to have after this? He freaked out in a situation where I bet a lot of people would freak out in, it’s inexcusable but I don’t know if it merits ruining his life.
That said, this doesn’t happen in a vacuum. He needs to be fired because otherwise cops won’t put enough of a priority on avoiding brutality. And he probably needs to be prosecuted so as to attempt to not exacerbate anti-cop sentiments which leads to increased violence against police officers. But it sucks.
It sucks that this girl is going to be rich for being a spoiled brat who threw her shoe at a cop who was already having a bad day. It sucks that the tax payers are going to have to fund this farce. It sucks that this guy’s future is screwed. But I guess c’est la vie.
galenrox on March 2, 2009 at 12:00 PM
When will people realize that you can not keep defending stupid actions. She is under arrest by a police officer and yet she is taking a temper tantrum cause that worked with mommy or daddy. She needed that and more. NO MONEY. Closed Case. And By the transcript she just admitted to stealing a car. That’s justice. That is how you stop crime and criminals. He did just enough for her age. 195lb man 6’2″, he could have easily 1 punch killed.
Tremmy on March 2, 2009 at 12:01 PM
Perhaps you should move to such a country. In the USA the police and government in general have no such rights and won’t while the 1st Amendment stands.
DarkCurrent on March 2, 2009 at 12:02 PM
I don’t know. Maybe what happens to every other teen who takes their parent’s car without asking. You do know that was what happened, right?
MadisonConservative on March 2, 2009 at 12:03 PM
Well, even punks deserve justice if they’ve been the victim of a criminal attack. We all have equality under the law.
As far as one lesson, I think that this girl will be an enemy of the police for life. She could grow up and become a big thorn in the side of police, becoming a lawyer, becoming an advocate, becoming a politician. Who knows? And it’s not only this girl, it’s her friends, family, news reporters, bloggers, or anonymous strangers who see this video and think it’s the last straw. The police need all the friends they can get, and this is not the way to get them.
Sydney Carton on March 2, 2009 at 12:04 PM
Boy, I guess nobody reads the damned article:
This is not an uncommon occurrence. The parents should have reamed her, not the cop.
MadisonConservative on March 2, 2009 at 12:05 PM
I live in the city of Philadelphia, we lose a cop a week to dumb teens. I am sorry if I have a different view on the situation. They have to have an upper hand at some point. They are out manned, out gunned, and outlawed by the rules they have to follow with the scum of the earth.
Tremmy on March 2, 2009 at 12:05 PM
Get ready for more of this folks. Two cops to subdue a 15 year old girl?
This time it was a rude, mouthy girl. Next time it may be when you question a traffic cop or God forbid, protest your taxes. The cops serve the citizens. They are not laws unto themselves
Throw the book at them.
Geoffrey de Bouillon on March 2, 2009 at 12:05 PM
That’s NOT justice. Justice involves due process, rights of the accused, a jury of your peers, considered punishmenet by a judge, etc.
This cop is not a judge, jury and executioner. You sound like you’d be more happy living in a police state like North Korea. I got news for you, bub: this is America. And that’s why even the cop-friendly prosecutors are trying him for criminal assault. They’re not as deluded as you.
Sydney Carton on March 2, 2009 at 12:07 PM
I believe saying words to a police officer like fat pig while being under arrest is a crime
Tremmy on March 2, 2009 at 12:11 PM
oops…I only linked since the video showed more of what happened. I will remember that in the future. :)
becki51758 on March 2, 2009 at 12:12 PM
Does this look like a case were the officers were out-manned and out-gunned? Get real.
DarkCurrent on March 2, 2009 at 12:13 PM
That’s nice. It’s not.
MadisonConservative on March 2, 2009 at 12:13 PM
Tremmy, do you know what it is she did? She has no juvenile record, no adult record of crimes. The 15 yo deserved a good grounding…. apparently she sneaked out with the family car with a girl she knew. Her parents didn’t know she had taken the car, and when they saw it was missing they reported it stolen.
It probably occurred to her she was driving around in the family car without permission (as a passenger – she didn’t have a license and the friend who did was doing the driving) – but it probably never crossed her mind not to RETURN IT. A car thief typically converts the car to his own permanent use, or to cash or parts to sell. She took the car without permission. Very naughty, dangerous, and she deserved to get busted by her PARENTS…with the top penalty being no driver’s license until she snaps out of being a brat, turns eighteen, makes honor roll, cleans out the garage….whatever.
Lippiness to cops is not a crime. He lied about the shoe hitting him and causing an injury. He’s just a big fat ass bully. He’s diminished his uniform, and the reputation of the whole department, he’s a drunken drug using driver himself, he’s a disgrace.
SarahW on March 2, 2009 at 12:14 PM
technically, we didn’t steal the car. We were just borrowing my friend’s mom’s car without permission. We used it without permission. I believe that is the definition of theft.
Tremmy on March 2, 2009 at 12:14 PM
It is very disturbing that so-called “conservatives” are seduced by power-tripping police merely because they think that such criminal actions are the best way to protect society. They aren’t.
Police brutality does nothing to benefit society. It doesn’t teach punks a lesson, it just makes then enemies for life of the police. It also encourages sympathy for them, creates mistrust between citizens and honest cops, and makes police work much, much harder. You will never beat Americans into submission by police brutality. You cannot make examples of Americans by police brutality. Americans, whether punks or law-abiding citizens, are not so easily cowed. And it is completely delusional to think that a mere beating will break a person’s spirit so that they’ll become a lapdog of the police. It didn’t happen in Soviet Russia, where they were much more brutal. It didn’t happen in East Germany. It won’t happen in America. It’s time for you people to get real.
The best way to have effective policing is to create trust between the police and the community. So that if it’s your daughter who is arrested by the police because of teenage rebeliousness, you don’t fear for her safety and you can be satisfied that the punishment she receives will come from a judge and jury, and not from an officer’s fists. The only way that trust can be established between citizens and the police is if the police are completely open and honest with citizens, and let them know what’s going on.
The alternative is far worse. If cops hide and are brutal and disengaged from the public, it will engender a far stronger counter-reaction: liberal judges who let criminals off, liberal politicians who gut the police, liberal activists who slam honest cops along with the bad, etc.
Think about it. Use your brains instead of your emotions.
Sydney Carton on March 2, 2009 at 12:15 PM
Civillians fuk up and cops fuk up. You don’t have to pick one or the other Tremmy.
-
deesine on March 2, 2009 at 12:17 PM
Uh huh. Let’s imprison junior for taking a cookie from the cookie jar.
MadisonConservative on March 2, 2009 at 12:17 PM
Speeding is a crime. If you’re ever pulled over for speeding, should the police pull you over and beat the shit out of you on the spot?
DarkCurrent on March 2, 2009 at 12:18 PM
Blake, you are one ignorant little turd. Consider this post my “flush”.
So far you’ve wrongly claimed that I said I knew what was said between the girl and the cops; that I thought the cop should be put in prison; that I didn’t think he deserved due process (btw, he’s NOT entitled to due process before being criticized; only before being denied life, liberty or property); and now that I don’t “love cops”.
Dude, it’s been 25+ years since my brother gave his life as a cop, but the pain of loss is as great as it was that day. I loved my brother more than you can imagine. He was one of the good ones, and lost his life because he tried to avoid using deadly force — thus my general tendency to side with the officer when there is any question. I admire good cops more than an ignorant punk like you is capable of understanding, which is precisely why I so strenuously despise bad ones who sully their reputation.
There’s no basis for debate with you, since you deal in untruths. Go rot in obscurity, for you’ll get no further response from me.
RegularJoe on March 2, 2009 at 12:19 PM
So we can now just all claim “taking the car without premission” for all car theft, and “taking moeny from a bank without premission”, ect, ect…
Mark Garnett on March 2, 2009 at 12:19 PM
I guess Im lucky to live in a small town where we know all police officers by name. They try to help teens who get arrested, try to change their attitudes, try to keep them off drugs and breaking the law, as does our District Justice.
Yes, they do deal with snotty teens who lip off, but they would never beat the hell out of a kid like that. My brother used to take my dad’s car and the cops would bring him home and let my dad deal with it.
becki51758 on March 2, 2009 at 12:21 PM
If it’s a teenager taking their parent’s car without asking? Yes. Who said anything about applying this treatment of it to situations other than this? Again, the cops should have brought her to the station, and held her till her parents showed up. If she needed discipline, her parents, not the state, should be the ones meting it out.
MadisonConservative on March 2, 2009 at 12:21 PM
The car theft is irrelevant. It doesn’t fricking matter. The girl could’ve been an axe murderer. It doesn’t matter, because the cop is not there to punish any of her crimes. A judge and jury do that. The cop is there to arrest her and book her. He ended up thrashing her instead, because he felt he was insulted. That is not permitted. It’s criminal because she was in custody and completely helpless and restrained.
The car theft is irrelevant. The only people who are focusing on it are those who think that the cop should be judge, jury, and executioner. That is not the American system of law and people who want cops to act like that are stasi wanna-bes.
Sydney Carton on March 2, 2009 at 12:24 PM
Let’s just ingnore all “crimes” because she didn’t mean to do it, she didn’t meant to kill someone, didn’t mean to shoplift, didn’t meant to mouth off… Excuses, excuses…
Hey, btw, you did see that I said the guy should get fired and maybe prosecuted, right? I’m not defending him, but I am slao not defending her actions either… You are…
Mark Garnett on March 2, 2009 at 12:24 PM
You would believe wrong the.
However, let’s assume you are right. What give the cop the right to try her, find her guilty and punish her? The last time I looked we had this thing called the judicial system to have a trial and mete out punishment.
If that is too inconvenient for you, allow me to suggest Cuba.
Tomblvd on March 2, 2009 at 12:25 PM
it is a case where respect for cops is lost and they continue to lose any upper hand in every situation. And yet if you are a criminal you are never guilty and never wrong. Always comes down to a situation that’s extreme to show the flaws we are creating. I do see both sides of the story. I feel bad for both sides but this is just another guy that will lose his job for some smart mouth temper tantrum throwing punk. Yet everyone feels bad for her. I was brought up in a family where I was taught respect and that is how this situation could have been avoided.
Tremmy on March 2, 2009 at 12:25 PM
This used to be a nice place to visit. F**k you Tremmy, you’re a moron. And, if you ever have kids, I hope they try your patience to the max.
fullogas on March 2, 2009 at 12:27 PM
Agree for the most part, but if the parents decided to press charges and let the law take its course regardless of family connection that would be understandable as well. In any case that wouldn’t excuse the brutal actions of these officers.
DarkCurrent on March 2, 2009 at 12:28 PM
People are calling her a car thief. If she had taken a stranger’s car or even a friend’s car without asking, I wouldn’t disagree. Calling her a car thief for taking her parent’s car, at the age of 15, without asking, isn’t a car thief. It’s a brat who is rebelling against her parents.
And why do you keep conflating my dismissing of this specific incident as “car thievery” with “let’s ignore all crimes, bank robbers, blah blah”?
MadisonConservative on March 2, 2009 at 12:29 PM
Comment pages: « Previous 1 … 4 5 6 7 Next »