The Obama plan: massive tax hikes
posted at 9:03 am on February 27, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
Jake Tapper took a look at the fine print in Deadbeatonomics yesterday, and discovered a lot of tax hikes among the Hope and Change. His plan for revitalizing the economy relies on sucking about a trillion dollars out of it over a ten-year period, starting in 2011:
1) On people making more than $250,000.
- $338 billion – Bush tax cuts expire
- $179 billlion – eliminate itemized deduction
- $118 billion – capital gains tax hike
Total: $636 billion/10 years
2) Businesses:
- $17 billion – Reinstate Superfund taxes
- $24 billion – tax carried-interest as income
- $5 billion – codify “economic substance doctrine”
- $61 billion – repeal LIFO
- $210 billion – international enforcement, reform deferral, other tax reform
- $4 billion – information reporting for rental payments
- $5.3 billion – excise tax on Gulf of Mexico oil and gas
- $3.4 billion – repeal expensing of tangible drilling costs
- $62 million – repeal deduction for tertiary injectants
- $49 million – repeal passive loss exception for working interests in oil and natural gas properties
- $13 billion – repeal manufacturing tax deduction for oil and natural gas companies
- $1 billion – increase to 7 years geological and geophysical amortization period for independent producers
- $882 million – eliminate advanced earned income tax credit
Total: $353 billion/10 years
Most of this is vaporware. This is a triumph of static tax analysis, which assumes that increased taxes have no effect on the amount of money available for taxation. For instance, the hike from 15% to 20% on capital-gains taxes assumes that people will invest and cash out in the same manner they do at 15%. They won’t. The fact of increasing the tax will discourage investors and encourage them to shift money out before the hike. Not only will the extra revenue vanish, but investment levels will drop, leading to job losses and less opportunity for American businesses.
And what “itemized deduction” will get eliminated? All of them? Some of them?
The business tax hikes are even worse. Obama will increase taxes on existing American oil production starting in 2011. Do we have massive amounts of alternative energy capacity ready to replace the energy production and usage that this will discourage? A growing economy has to have a reliable energy supply. Energy producers get hit on several fronts in this plan, and those costs will either result in lower energy production or increased cost to the consumers.
Again, the expected revenues will far exceed the reality, once the depressive economic effects of these taxes kick in. The spending, unfortunately, will be all too real, which will mean huge, ballooning deficits. It’s the inevitable result of Deadbeatonomics.
Blowback
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Having the opportunity to swear him in was a great experience.
Otis B on February 27, 2009 at 3:36 PM
I am sure it was. Going to Basic graduation was one of the best days of my life. My son is in Security Forces. He’s currently in S Korea.
ladyingray on February 27, 2009 at 3:38 PM
genso on February 27, 2009 at 3:37 PM
Sorry, I didn’t mean to come across that way – I just can’t for the life of me figure out the strategy here.
Otis B on February 27, 2009 at 3:39 PM
Where do you get this god complex nonsense?
If you had to fire an employee in order to keep the company afloat, how would you go about it?
Or do you think that’s too much of “god complex” for your delicate soul to handle?
MarkTheGreat on February 27, 2009 at 3:40 PM
Because at best he’s a big government liberal and at worst he’s a Marxist with totalitarian aspirations. Of course, he’s always been a big lib and we all knew he was from the onset.
Not really. Maybe next time we can try to win elections and defeat liberals rather than making compromises with them and trotting moderates out to be crushed by them.
Sign of the Dollar on February 27, 2009 at 3:40 PM
I’m beginning to think they want to go back much further than the 80′s.
Seems like the libs are trying to spend us back to the same dark ages the terrorist want to blow us back to.
ladyingray on February 27, 2009 at 3:40 PM
I know you weren’t. I’m with you. This goes against every capitalist bone in my body. I just can’t think liberal.
genso on February 27, 2009 at 3:40 PM
Any business targeted for acting in the interest of the business and business owner will get my business.
jimmy2shoes on February 27, 2009 at 3:42 PM
It won’t spur the economy, it will spur govt.
WHich after all is their point.
MarkTheGreat on February 27, 2009 at 3:42 PM
I think 80 is about where they want the Dow to be.
jimmy2shoes on February 27, 2009 at 3:42 PM
ladyingray on February 27, 2009 at 3:38 PM
God bless you, ladyingray – I spent a little time in Korea supporting the annual Ulchi Focus Lens exercise in 2000.
The experiences your son will have will be unforgettable and very beneficial to him, and I am grateful for his service.
Otis B on February 27, 2009 at 3:43 PM
I agree but they’ve maxed out their credit cards. Where are they going to get the money to fund their great experiment if they don’t get their foot off of the necks of business?
genso on February 27, 2009 at 3:44 PM
That 250K limit is going to become 200K anf then eventually less than 100K when they run out of rich people.
Add higher energy costs and inflation.
Mix and swallow.
drjohn on February 27, 2009 at 3:45 PM
At the end of the day it comes down to “how do they think they are going to pay for all of this?”
Even under the guise of “taking from the rich,” even that money runs out someday. Who is going to replenish it after they take it all? Where will the capitalists go? They for sure won’t stay here to generate more if they understand that it will just be taken form them.
Otis B on February 27, 2009 at 3:47 PM
They’ll print it. Or they will just take direct control of everything they can’t afford to buy.
MarkTheGreat on February 27, 2009 at 3:47 PM
Exactly. Already there seems to less risk in the Chinese market.
genso on February 27, 2009 at 3:48 PM
Assuming they let you leave. Do you remember all the laws the Democrats were proposing in the years before Reagan cut the tax rates?
MarkTheGreat on February 27, 2009 at 3:49 PM
Driving the producers out of business will not bother these people. They are convinced that govt can run everything better than the private sector anyway. They will just confiscate your businesses, in order to put their cronies in charge.
MarkTheGreat on February 27, 2009 at 3:50 PM
Tell me about that. My greatest fear…the tipping point for me….is a move to close the borders.
genso on February 27, 2009 at 3:50 PM
MarkTheGreat on February 27, 2009 at 3:49 PM
But even with that, you lose the sense of individual gain – no one works as hard for someone else as they do when it’s their own interest at stake.
Sorry Mark, I just can’t wrap my head around how they think this is supposed to work. I realize you aren’t an apologist for Obama, but I’d really like some answers to these questions, because I have children that I would like to see have an opportunity to succeed.
Otis B on February 27, 2009 at 3:51 PM
I’ve only read this page of this thread, but what in God’s name are you blathering on about?
Alana on February 27, 2009 at 3:51 PM
er – I was on page 6.
Alana on February 27, 2009 at 3:51 PM
All hail to the “Commander in Thief”. A Chi-town thug in an suit.
When this bullshit artist gets voted out of office and his legacy is forever characterized as the worst presidency in history, the shame this megalomaniac suffers will be well deserved.
jdflorida on February 27, 2009 at 3:52 PM
It’s not even the unseemly greed of the Obama dependency class that will destroy us. It’s the uncertainty caused in the markets by displays of capricious state power. Even the most primitive economic systems thrive on confidence – the best thing early civilizations did for their merchant class was provide a reasonably stable currency, guarantees of property rights, and protection from bandits. A gigantic, complex technological economy requires an even greater sense of stability and confidence.
Massive spending and regulation, let alone the outright fascism Obama proposes, destroy market wealth because they make investors – especially the big ones – unwilling to take calculated risks. They don’t think they *can* calculate the risks. Who wants to invest in an industry that could be nationalized, or destroyed by arbitrary regulations enacted in respose to panicky public-opinion polls? Who wants to put capital at risk in loans that might be summarily renegotiated by the government, as many mortgage lenders are on the verge of experiencing? Why gamble on creating a profitable business when success will make you a target, and you can’t hope to collect market share from defeated competitors, because they’ll receive billion-dollar bailouts and linger in Detroit-style undeath forever?
Imaginary wealth created by government fiat diminishes the value of *real* wealth. America has no more net wealth after a trillion dollars of pork spending. Instead, the pork spending devalues the wealth truly generated by free-market economic activity. We’re not richer just because Uncle Sam printed up a fresh pile of million-dollar bills and started handing them out to government-favored constituencies… most of whom are not productive economic entities, or else they wouldn’t need all that “stimulus” money in the first place. Does anyone really think the lucky winners of the stimulus lottery are going to say, “Wow, that $67 billion was *great!* I think I’ll go out and earn my own $67 billion now! And the first thing I’ll do with it is repay the hard-working taxpayers that gave me that stimulus cash!”
Doctor Zero on February 27, 2009 at 3:52 PM
Geez, I have to be careful, I think Obama shut down the internet @ my office, I had to get on my blackberry! I believe Obama is trying to screw things up as it enables more of his change. He just blames it on Bush, and the stupid media and his party let him get away w it cuz they hate Bush, so the “chatty classes” are the only ones that scream, and according to Chucky Schumer, we don’t matter.
Susanboo on February 27, 2009 at 3:52 PM
This plan is working spectacularly in Zimbabwe.
When Bill Ayers takes over GM, you can be sure GM will build outstanding car bombs.
Who wouldn’t want one in their garage?
NoDonkey on February 27, 2009 at 3:53 PM
MarkTheGreat on February 27, 2009 at 3:50 PM
Funny when one thinks about it. Alec Baldwin, for example, was screaming that he was going to leave the US when Bush won in 2004. I guess he had his private jet warmed up and ready to go all these years? Nah. Let BO and his tax geniuses get hold of his cajones, and Alec will be gone.
Many of these celeb pukes have homes overseas. I’d like to see how many of them renounce their US citizenship.
Cody1991 on February 27, 2009 at 3:54 PM
Hamas’ car of the year, the Buick BOMBadier.
jimmy2shoes on February 27, 2009 at 3:58 PM
I’m pretty sure they think it won’t work…and that is what they want. The talk of success is nothing but chin music.
ladyingray on February 27, 2009 at 3:58 PM
What she said!!!!
ladyingray on February 27, 2009 at 3:59 PM
Doctor Zero on February 27, 2009 at 3:52 PM
Well said. I always enjoy your contributions. The market, i.e. smart money says it all.
Cody1991 on February 27, 2009 at 3:59 PM
No, what were they proposing?
Alana on February 27, 2009 at 4:00 PM
I think they believe it will work, towards their ends. Global governance, anyone?
jimmy2shoes on February 27, 2009 at 4:00 PM
S&P at 735. That breaks resistance.
genso on February 27, 2009 at 4:00 PM
Cody1991 on February 27, 2009 at 3:54 PM
I’ve been thinking about that, too – many of those Hollywood celebs (and producers, perhaps more to the point) make a lot of money.
Are they just going to be “safe” from the capital grab? I mean, are they unwitting pawns who will be surprised one day to wake up realizing they are little more than slaves to a political machine with nothing to show for it?
I suppose, subliminally, this might be a little wishful thinking, but I fail to see how they don’t grasp what could happen here and wake up to it.
That’s not to say I don’t appreciate some people form Hollywood – Gary Sinise is an incredible person and a true patriot, in my opinion.
Otis B on February 27, 2009 at 4:01 PM
I must have misread the previous post – I agree that this is what they want to work.
ladyingray on February 27, 2009 at 4:02 PM
I would imagine he’s trying to justify some of the envy that gives the Left its political power. The enduring tragedy of socialism is the way it can always find naifs who think equality can be enforced through legislation. Every system will invariably have winners and losers, the rich and the poor, the superstars and the little guys. The difference is that socialism chooses its winners by voting for them, and the winners hold on to their winnings with brute force. At least capitalism forces its winners to do *something* to earn those mansions and yachts, even if it’s just churning out unnecessary “Indiana Jones” sequels.
The *leaders* of socialist governments always understand this perfectly, which is why they have luxury vacation dachas on the Baltic, or send their children to Sidwell Friends. The footsoldiers of socialism are the people who can praise Michele Obama for her style and grace at a swanky fashion show, three months after they excoriated Sarah Palin for accepting fine clothes to wear while she was campaigning.
Doctor Zero on February 27, 2009 at 4:03 PM
Liberals do not believe that this is true.
Additionally they are convinced that profits merely add to the cost of the consumer. Eliminate profit and the only result will be everything is cheaper.
They also feel that competition is just wasted energy. We, the consumers don’t need 15 brands of tooth brush’s. The govt will decide what the best toothbrush is and that will be the one produced.
They are also congenitally convinced of their own intellectual superiority. They know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that if they were in charge, everything will be run better and the economy will take off.
MarkTheGreat on February 27, 2009 at 4:03 PM
Welcome to the page warp.
MarkTheGreat on February 27, 2009 at 4:04 PM
He won’t feel any shame, he will instead convince himself that the rest of us just weren’t good enough for him.
Basically the Jimmy Carter option.
MarkTheGreat on February 27, 2009 at 4:05 PM
MarkTheGreat please explain more about the closing the border issue.
genso on February 27, 2009 at 4:05 PM
I like your eloquence.
jimmy2shoes on February 27, 2009 at 4:07 PM
I’ve told you all about the young communist I debated many years ago. This wag readily admitted that all previous attempts to implement communism were complete failures.
According to him, that was because the wrong people were in charge. This time, his people were going to be in charge, and this time it will work.
MarkTheGreat on February 27, 2009 at 4:08 PM
How did that work out for him?
jimmy2shoes on February 27, 2009 at 4:09 PM
Otis B on February 27, 2009 at 4:01 PM
Otis, I really don’t know. Trying to get into the head of a Hollywood celeb is beyond my abilities. Many of them have so much money that tax increases will make little difference in their lives. Now, if Barry and his boys mandated “caps” in what they could be paid for starring in a film, that would be different. That won’t happen because Hollywood celebs are Barry buffoons.
The people who will pay the price are the rest of us middle income earners. It has always been so. BO hates the middle class. It’s in his books. It was a large part of his upbringing, and in this country the largest part of the middle class is white. He’s a racist. Make no bones about it.
This is all happening far faster than I could ever have imagined.
Anyway, someone is defending the DJIA 7000 level, but it will go next week. Might be a gap when markets open overseas this weekend.
Cody1991 on February 27, 2009 at 4:09 PM
Amongst other things, if you renounced your citizenship you immediately forfeited any property you owned in the US.
They were also proposing that such people were to be permanently barred from visiting the US. On any kind of visa.
MarkTheGreat on February 27, 2009 at 4:10 PM
Don’t know, it was an internet debate, so I never knew his true name.
MarkTheGreat on February 27, 2009 at 4:12 PM
I knew libs loved Castro, but my goodness.
jimmy2shoes on February 27, 2009 at 4:12 PM
One of the big problems with Hollywood types is that for many, making it big does have a large “luck” component.
There are very many talented actors working as waiters, just hoping for their big break.
Get noticed by the right person, at the right time, and the next thing you know you are famous and fabulously rich.
So it’s very easy for them to convince themselves that everyone else who is rich, became so because of luck. So it’s OK for the govt to take most of your paycheck, because you didn’t really “earn” it in the first place.
MarkTheGreat on February 27, 2009 at 4:15 PM
MarkTheGreat on February 27, 2009 at 4:10 PM
Interesting. Wow.
Cody1991 on February 27, 2009 at 4:15 PM
hope and change….
link
now thats change you can believe in..suckas…
right4life on February 27, 2009 at 4:23 PM
Having owned several businesses I can tell you anyone who has had to fund a payroll doesn’t feel like a god, he feels like a slave. Unemployement, insurance, payroll, city, state and federal taxes add to meeting not only your payroll but 40% over that. And unskilled labor is the most expensive kind of employee, so you pay what you can for the best you can afford.
The perks of being the boss are balanced by the responsibilities to your busienss, your employees, your customers, and then yourself. It doesn’t work any other way if you’re a small businessman.
itsspideyman on February 27, 2009 at 4:25 PM
This country needs at least a week when the big O is not on the TV traveling and making more campaign speeches. Especially, weeks before he again spends us into a third-world country. OOPS!! Been there, done that.
hillbilly on February 27, 2009 at 4:27 PM
Such rules would be pretty bad, Mark!
I knew he hated the middle class, but I didn’t know it was in his books! I know he wants to destroy it.
Alana on February 27, 2009 at 4:27 PM
I know that this is a long thread but Obama’s approach to economics reminds me of the “village idiot”.
duff65 on February 27, 2009 at 4:31 PM
The truely scary thing is that today’s Democrats are much, much, more radical than they were in the 80′s.
MarkTheGreat on February 27, 2009 at 4:32 PM
But – why were they proposing such draconian laws?
Alana on February 27, 2009 at 4:32 PM
It’s a tragic amusement for me how people who have NEVER worked in the trenches of government (e.g. Barack Obama), actually believe that the government can outperform the private sector when it comes to producing goods and services.
Government is necessary, but it’s a leaden, blunt instrument full of bureaucracy. If you want to get things done, you can do it, but it takes an incredible effort to overcome the inertia and resistance.
And even when it accomplishes things it usually costs three times as much as it should. Because a good many of the people employed by the government are not all that incredibly motivated, truth be told.
Hollywood movie stars, rock stars, college students and politicians who started at the top (e.g. Barack Obama) will never and can never grasp this simple fact.
NoDonkey on February 27, 2009 at 4:32 PM
To keep people like me from taking wealth out of the country.
genso on February 27, 2009 at 4:33 PM
right4life on February 27, 2009 at 4:23 PM
Exactly right; the markets have much clearer vision than humans. Obama-Pelosi-Reid are on a mission of some sort, and the markets aren’t happy with what they perceive to be the mission.
Destroy capitalism?
Sure looks like it and smells like it!
Keemo on February 27, 2009 at 4:34 PM
Pelosi and Reid are far too stupid and incompetent to have a plan like that.
I mean, diabolical plans are usually not hatched by dimwitted faded old trophy wives their billionaire husbands wanted out of the house, like Pelosi or gaming commission/Gambino errand boys like Harry Reid.
Obama on the other hand . . . I really don’t think this guy is all that bright either, to tell you the truth.
They are all puppets, if anything. Diabolical plans are usually hatched by people with 100+ IQs at least, and Moe, Larry and Curly Josephine here are in the 80s on a good day and with five cups of coffee.
NoDonkey on February 27, 2009 at 4:41 PM
There was a couple of high profile cases of rich people renouncing their US citizenship in order to avoid US taxes.
Prior to Reagan, the top federal tax rate was 70%.
MarkTheGreat on February 27, 2009 at 4:42 PM
Yeah…an Auric Goldfinger type guy. Kinda looks a bit like Soros but I’m sure the similarities end there.
genso on February 27, 2009 at 4:45 PM
Alana on February 27, 2009 at 4:27 PM
You don’t have to torture yourself reading his books. If you have time and are so inclined, get on the web and do some searches. BO has been steeped in Marxist ideology from a young age. Check out Black Liberation Theology and the TUCC (most of the info. I found has been scrubbed from their website). Chicago Machine politics, Annenberg, etc. The picture becomes very clear. BO never eschewed any of this, not by words or deeds. He is what he is.
Cody1991 on February 27, 2009 at 4:47 PM
To keep people like me from taking wealth out of the country.
genso on February 27, 2009 at 4:33 PM
Right. It’s either the choice of giving up your assets or paying high taxes. And…. if you give up citizenship and head off to some obscure place (or not so obscure) you can’t count on the Yanks helping you if trouble arises. You are persona non grata. Can’t imagine a celeb who would settle for that…lol
Cody1991 on February 27, 2009 at 4:53 PM
Perhaps not, but we don’t make a real effort to rise up against this, I will. Life is too damn short to wait a decade or so for this to “work out” as some others on HA suggest.
genso on February 27, 2009 at 4:56 PM
Our nation is in a “fat and happy” slumber.
Most will wake up when one of the following two will happen:
1. Their pockets will be picked, or
2. They’re about to be hung.
Entelechy on February 27, 2009 at 4:56 PM
Check out this, and this, especially the comments from the producers. They are protesting, and I don’t think they’re traitors at all.
Entelechy on February 27, 2009 at 4:59 PM
ND, I agree that Pelosi, Reid and the rest of the lib Dems aren’t that smart. They’re cunning pols who finally had the right opportunity to win with significant help and funding from some really smart people. Those are the guys with money and brain power.
BO is the front guy. For sure he’s not that bright. He’s just a groovey ideologue who can con the fools that Carville described, i.e. the ignorant, down-and-out people the Dem party feeds on. That’s their base of power.
Barry’s the Pied Piper. I really think he’s a one term president, but at the rate these guys are going they will have so much legislation in place that it will take decades of hard work to unravel it. No matter who wins in the future it will be an arduous task to change a landscape that is mired in debt and saddled with entitlement wannabees.
Cody1991 on February 27, 2009 at 5:05 PM
That is true, but I’ll tell you something. As someone who is older, I cannot describe how devastating it is to watch what’s going on. There are plenty of people my age who can accept hardship and keep on working. One picks up and goes on, but what I’m seeing now is that there is no escape. However hard I work to make up for what I’ve lost I will be taxed to death. And I mean that in the most literal sense.
Sorry, to be so glum. One thing I’ve always had was optimism and pride in my country. No matter what happened I knew one could pick up and go on. Now, it appears that we’re losing that opportunity.
Cody1991 on February 27, 2009 at 5:13 PM
Yes, I studied him quite a bit before he was elected, including reading what excerpts from his books I could find. (But those didn’t include comments on the middle class.) I realize he has been steeped in Marxism from day one. I have friends who laugh at me for thinking that.
Alana on February 27, 2009 at 5:15 PM
I had friends who laughed at me for expressing my concern about BO. They’re not laughing now. Some of them are academics who once perceived themselves as being “really smart.”
Cody1991 on February 27, 2009 at 5:20 PM
Windfall Tax on Retirement Income
Adding a tax to your retirement is simply another way of saying to the American people, you’re so darn stupid that we’re going to keep doing this until we drain every cent from you. That’s what the Speaker of the House is saying. Read below……………
Nancy Pelosi wants a Windfall Tax on Retirement Income. In other words tax what you have made by investing toward your retirement. This woman is a nut case! You aren’t going to believe this.
Madam speaker Nancy Pelosi wants to put a Windfall Tax on all stock market profits (including Retirement fund, 401K and Mutual Funds! Alas , it is true – all to help the 12 Million Illegal Immigrants and other unemployed Minorities!
This woman is frightening.
She quotes…’ We need to work toward the goal of equalizing income, (didn’t Marx say something like this?), in our country and at the same time limiting the amount the rich can invest.’ (I am not rich, are you?)
When asked how these new tax dollars would be spent, she replied: ‘We need to raise the standard of living of our poor, unemployed and minorities. For example, we have an estimated 12 million illegal immigrants in our country who need our help along with millions of unemployed minorities. Stock market windfall profits taxes could go a long way to guarantee these people the standard of living they would like to have as ‘Americans’.’ (Read that quote again and again and let it sink in. ‘Lower your retirement, give it to others who have not worked as you have for it’.
Obama-Pelosi-Reid / changing all hope of having anything left to pass on to our children.
Personally, those of you who voted these people into office will be held accountable in time.
Keemo on February 27, 2009 at 5:40 PM
The liberal mantra; raise taxes on businesses and the liberal politicians know that it is the customers of the businesses who pay the taxes.
Johan Klaus on February 27, 2009 at 6:01 PM
While I agree with the sentiment, you might want to take a look at snopes before using that specific thing again:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/pelosi/windfall.asp
LegendHasIt on February 27, 2009 at 6:03 PM
Obama’s father believed that it was OK to take 100% of the citizen’s income. The nut does not fall far from the tree. ( Nut is not racist is it?)
Johan Klaus on February 27, 2009 at 6:05 PM
It COULD be construed as racist…. If by nut you mean ACORN.
LegendHasIt on February 27, 2009 at 6:07 PM
Yep. Insanity can be hereditary, can’t it?
Cody1991 on February 27, 2009 at 6:11 PM
Cody1991 on February 27, 2009 at 5:13 PM
We are still strong, Cody. This too shall pass.
I believe in what we have taught our children. They will weather this storm, because we have instilled a love of freedom within them, and they will remember that.
Otis B on February 27, 2009 at 6:17 PM
I can only speak for one of those states (and someone who voted AGAINST Obama) but I don’t think anyone has any idea what they’ve done. Talking to friends who voted for O, they seem to have all the confidence in the world that this is right. Even giving medicaid to people who make 400 times the poverty rate. Bunch of idiots up in here.
citrus on February 27, 2009 at 6:21 PM
AMEN!! We played by the rules, served our country and in a few short years the country we knew may well be gone forever.
hillbilly on February 27, 2009 at 6:22 PM
I remember reading articles during the primaries/election that businesspeople were turning in large numbers, for the first time in decades, to the Democrat party. The writers were so gleeful about this trend, since Republicans had owned the business voters for so long, and they were excited to see businesspeople finally coming to their senses. I wonder how those businesspeople feel about their choice now. And if they’re not regretting it yet, I wonder how they’ll feel standing in the smoking ruins of their former businesses after four years of Obama.
aero on February 27, 2009 at 6:30 PM
I wonder if Obama makes it purposefully hard for people to meet him even half way. I mean, I think I could live with “taxing the rich” so long as businesses are left alone.
radiofreevillage on February 27, 2009 at 6:38 PM
LegendHasIt on February 27, 2009 at 6:03 PM
Thanks for the link, mean it. My problem is, I’m running very low on faith in my fellow humans at this moment. That would include sites such as snopes. Pelosi comes from the same family of people that gave us the death tax. Why would I doubt that she is anything other than a “tax & spend” kind of gal that would figure out a way to get at every penny available.
BTW: I found that little piece in a file I keep on California politicians. I’m not sure where it actually came from. I lived in Ca. for most of my adult life up until (3) years ago when I finally took my family and escaped. Most of the data I keep in that file came from blogs, however I could have received that in an email based on the date of the story. I have since decided that blast emails are not necessarily reliable even if they came from sources such as newsmax.
Keemo on February 27, 2009 at 6:40 PM
To where shall we turn, my fellow lovers of freedom?
Nay, this is our heartland. We lovers of freedom shall overcome this assault – liberty will raise her head again and draw those who love her.
Or perhaps not.
Otis B on February 27, 2009 at 6:43 PM
Rich and business are many times synonymous.
Johan Klaus on February 27, 2009 at 6:44 PM
I think we’ll make it too, but it’s going to be rough. Things are different this time. This insane crescendo of government spending has a different character than previous attempts by exhilarated liberals to get their wish list passed, as happened in 1992 after Clinton. This is not just an expansion of the state… it’s transformative, and it’s being implemented as a series of fiscal land mines, set to detonate in 2010 and 2012 when people begin to realize there is no way to un-spend those trillions of pork and bailout dollars. It feels like a leap ahead to a doomsday scenario, in which 47% of the public is told the other 53% has voted them into slavery, and hey, majority rules, right?
I’d like to see a man-on-the-street poll in which the people giving Obama his 60% approval ratings are asked what should be done if his tax and spending plans don’t work out. I would imagine most of them would cheerfully shrug and say something like, “well, then we’ll try something else.” The day this delusion ends, and these people begin realizing there *is* no way to try something else – that all other options have been permanently foreclosed – is the day the sea change will begin. The recipients of Obama’s largesse will *never* allow it to be taken away from them, and they have reached a critical mass that will make it impossible to correct the situation through politics as we have understood them for the last hundred years. You won’t be able to undo the horrific economic damage about to rip through the country by voting a few dozen more Republicans into House seats, or crafting a really sensible budget for fiscal 2012. It will require a complete rewriting of the rules, and that will not happen until the dependency class is cut off cold turkey by a financial collapse that makes it impossible for Washington to siphon more cash out of the economy.
I don’t see any way that will happen without a fairly drastic reduction in the American standard of living. Most of the people complaining about the current “down” economy are doing it while watching the news on a 47-inch plasma TV, and cleaning out their fridge to get rid of food they never got around to eating. Even a spike in unemployment doesn’t rock the middle class too badly, since most of them don’t stay unemployed for very long. When Obama’s policies kick off really massive inflation, the bond market collapses, and energy prices surge – or God forbid, we suffer a terrorist attack like 9/11, which our economy no longer has the power to absorb – some very confused and angry people are going to begin asking how the hell things went so bad, and they might start thinking about things that are unthinkable right now. Hope and change, indeed.
Conservatives used to mock liberal economic policy by asking, “If people have a right to free health care, why don’t they also have a right to free housing and food?” Leave it to the degenerate, infantile Democratic party of the new milennium to turn conservative hyperbole into economic policy. Now comes a painful lesson for the American voter: spending money is not the same thing as creating wealth. If it was, counterfeiters wouldn’t be criminals, and Obamanomics would work.
Doctor Zero on February 27, 2009 at 6:49 PM
Oh, no arguements; We know that the sentiment is there, if not the exact details. And she would somehow exempt her own wealth if she passed the laws.
I was just looking for a recent reliable source for those statements so I could spread it around. And only could find stuff a couple of years old, and that led to snopes. So I thought I should mention it gently before some liberal tried to use it against you.
LegendHasIt on February 27, 2009 at 6:54 PM
I would love to see the President or anyone of the democrats explain to kids just what it means to them and why it’s necessary. Why? Because, I frankly cannot give my two sons a good reason for this. I’m one of those CRAZY people who lives within their means, saves money, teaches my kids right from wrong, teaches them ethics, manners and that character means more than personality. I teach them the meaning of personal responsibility and everything has a cost. These do not seem to be the values upheld by the leadership in Washington. Tax cheats, TAX CHEATS, in charge of taxing people and folks that believe lying isn’t lying if you carefully choose your words and can always say, “well, that’s not exactly what I meant, even thought that’s what I said.” That’s what you get when you put a bunch of lawyers in charge, they’re just like the media. It all depends how you spin the story, the defense or the prosecution. There are no heroes in our government. There are no persons with strength of character, honesty or ethics. I have instilled more of this in the short lives of my two sons than all the politicians in Washington have put together. They are the true minority.
timajin on February 27, 2009 at 7:06 PM
I don’t see any way that will happen without a fairly drastic reduction in the American standard of living. Most of the people complaining about the current “down” economy are doing it while watching the news on a 47-inch plasma TV, and cleaning out their fridge to get rid of food they never got around to eating.
Doctor Zero on February 27, 2009 at 6:49 PM
Doc, my good brother, these are exactly the things I am talking about.
America is about these things. We will prevail simply because our values, even from the extreme points of view, THRIVE on individual liberties.
Standard of living, when rooted within a basic standard of freedom, FREEDOM, is subject to that which one is willing to sacrifice based upon that very standard.
Frankly, it pains me that we have lost so much sight of the very thing that has made us distinctly American.
Or maybe we haven’t, and it is a truth that occasionally we must be reminded of these things through such crises as we are currently seeing.
Otis B on February 27, 2009 at 7:07 PM
Is it okay for us to hope he fails at this point? Or are we supposed to skip happily to our own execution?
Are you a complete idiot or just a fool? How many people does the average poor or middle class person employ?
You would also do well to read up on LLCs, S-Corps and partnerships.
crashland on February 27, 2009 at 7:07 PM
Is it okay for us to hope he fails at this point?
crashland on February 27, 2009 at 7:07 PM
Yes.
In the name of freedom, I personally hope he fails.
Otis B on February 27, 2009 at 7:12 PM
When Obama and his supporters are largely from academia, government, nonprofits, and unions, it’s easy to understand why Obama and his supporters know so little about economics, commerce, and business. Your point about those three forms of doing business is very well taken. Obama and his supporters seem to thing that taxable income of $250,000 represents that much in cash. They don’t understand that owners of these businesses pay income tax on “pass-through” income that isn’t necessarily–and often isn’t–distributed to them because the income must be retained in the business for any of a number of reasons.
BuckeyeSam on February 27, 2009 at 7:21 PM
You aren’t the only one. You might enjoy my little tale of what happened to me at the Plumbing Supply store yesterday:
The guy running the order desk was looking up a part number / price and said:
“We’re so screwed!”
I thought for a moment that he meant that the part was going to cost me a fortune or that the inventory was screwed up or something like that.
With trepidation in my voice, I said; “What?!?”
He pointed to the TV where 0bama was just then speaking about how everyone has to sacrifice for the greater good of his Brave New World.
We got into a short discussion about how worried he is for his daughter; a senior in high school who has been ‘busting her hump’ for three years and just got accepted into a pre-med program..
He said:
“I only worked hard enough in high school to stay on the sports teams; She is ten times smarter and worked ten times harder than I ever did……. How do I explain to her that the rulers of this country expect her to sacrifice her future for the benefit of others who are too lazy or too crooked to work for what they want?”
So, at least not EVERYONE believes in ‘free government cheese’. I guess there is some hope, at least in the small towns of America.
Me, well, I’ve pretty much “shrugged” already. I quit any income producing activities when it was obvious who the nominees of both major parties were going to be. In the process of setting up my own mini- Galt’s Gulch.
LegendHasIt on February 27, 2009 at 7:23 PM
LegendHasIt on February 27, 2009 at 7:23 PM
Don’t give up hope, bro, WE WILL COME BACK FROM THIS.
Trust me, America will rise above this nonsense.
I believe.
Otis B on February 27, 2009 at 7:28 PM
The other day I asked my daughter which of two scenarios was right and which was wrong.
A boy in her class doesn’t have any paper, but she does. Should she give him some of her paper willingly, or should her teacher take some of her paper and give it to him. She said it would be right for her to give him some paper, but it wouldn’t be nice if the teacher took her paper and gave it. She’s eight years old. If she gets it, why can’t Obama, and what exactly does that say about him?
jimmy2shoes on February 27, 2009 at 7:34 PM
Well, thanks for the pep talk, but as a long time student of history, economics, human behavior and industry, I’m betting that we will not… Not in my lifetime, not without a ‘uncivil Civil War’ anyway.
LegendHasIt on February 27, 2009 at 7:35 PM
Thanks for that brief story. I’ve not given up yet because my sons mean more to me than anything and I will do whatever I have to for them. Got that Dumb-o-crats?! ANY-F#&KIN’-THING.
REVOLUTION
timajin on February 27, 2009 at 7:40 PM
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