Carbon trading markets collapse

posted at 10:01 am on February 25, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

Before the US adopts the silly cap-and-trade “market” approach to curbing carbon emissions, perhaps we should see what the recession has done to the European carbon market.  The EU has spent a lot of money rediscovering the laws of supply and demand in this recession.  Instead of making carbon emissions a scarcity, the economic collapse has created a glut of indulgences:

A year ago European governments allocated a limited number of carbon emission permits to their big polluters. Businesses that reduce pollution are allowed to sell spare permits to ones that need more. As demand outstrips this capped supply, and the price of permits rises, an incentive grows to invest in green energy. Why buy costly permits to keep a coal plant running when you can put the cash into clean power instead?

All this only works as the carbon price lifts. As with 1924 Château Lafite or Damian Hirst’s diamond skulls, scarcity and speculation create the value. If permits are cheap, and everyone has lots, the green incentive crashes into reverse. As recession slashes output, companies pile up permits they don’t need and sell them on. The price falls, and anyone who wants to pollute can afford to do so. The result is a system that does nothing at all for climate change but a lot for the bottom lines of mega-polluters such as the steelmaker Corus: industrial assistance in camouflage.

“I don’t know why industrials would miss this opportunity,” said one trader last week. “They are using it to compensate for the tightening of credit and the slowdown, to pay for redundancies.”

All of which has set off what Julian Glover calls the “Great Pollution Fire Sale”.  He blames the EU for being too generous in its allocation of carbon credits, but the allocation was calculated during economic growth.  The EU wanted to make sure that the cap-and-trade system didn’t interfere with the economy, and so made sure that the energy producers didn’t get disincentivized enough to create artifical energy shortages that would have stalled growth.

Now, of course, Europe has all sorts of excess capacity in energy production thanks to the economic downturn of the past few months.  The cap-and-trade system essentially subsidizes non-production, and the energy producers have cashed in.  Only now, those credits aren’t worth warm spit, because no one else is ready to start producing enough to worry about exceeding carbon caps.  It’s a perfectly-formed system for failure; no one would part with the credits in boom times, and no one will buy them in a bust.

Part of this comes from the fact that the commodity being traded has no essential value anyway.  It’s air, the ultimate vaporware product.  There is no scarcity in carbon dioxide, and so markets for it will always be artificial and contrived.  Glover’s criticism about the amount of credits is akin to rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.  The problem isn’t the credits, but the falsity of the entire operation.

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Comment pages: 1 2

Great. Now we have a carbon bubble popping in addition to a deflated real estate bubble.

lol

Vashta.Nerada on February 25, 2009 at 10:04 AM

One giant scam. Hahahahahahaha!

flyfisher on February 25, 2009 at 10:04 AM

Al Gore is not amused.

Bishop on February 25, 2009 at 10:05 AM

I cringed last night when I heard Obama talking about this. My wife wanted to know why it annoyed me so much, so I had to explain the whole cap-and-trade system to her. She looked at me and said “That’s just stupid”. I couldn’t stop laughing for the rest of the speech which made it much easier to watch.

txaggie on February 25, 2009 at 10:06 AM

Obviously the Europeans aren’t as smart at controlling air as Pelosi-Reid-Obama will be.

myrenovations on February 25, 2009 at 10:06 AM

Interesting parallel, if you change a few words:

He blames the EU democrat party for being too generous in its allocation of carbon credits CRA assistance and subprime loan forcing, but the allocation was calculated during economic growth a real estate bubble caused by their very interference.

Vashta.Nerada on February 25, 2009 at 10:07 AM

Al Gore is asking for a stimulus package to bail out the carbon offset company’s…you know that is coming.

right2bright on February 25, 2009 at 10:07 AM

Carbon trading markets collapse

Not before Al Gore got rich. He probably has most of his riches in gold and silver now. We could hope that he has most of his ill gotten gains in the collapsing Obama stock market but I doubt that the fat fraud is that stupid.

MB4 on February 25, 2009 at 10:07 AM

Just in time for Obama to get the US involved.

MarkTheGreat on February 25, 2009 at 10:08 AM

How does one purchase carbon credits? Sounds like they can be bought on the cheap and might make for a nice investment.

BPD on February 25, 2009 at 10:08 AM

We’re going to be seeing quite a bit of this, methinks.

Bob's Kid on February 25, 2009 at 10:08 AM

Hey the Dow Jones is dropping too. I told you that it would drop today, if Barry didn’t offer to resign last night.

Vashta.Nerada on February 25, 2009 at 10:08 AM

Gore Directive 09-072:

To: All enviro-drones

All enviro-drones are immediately instructed to disregard this post.

Carry on.

darwin on February 25, 2009 at 10:09 AM

My carbon credits/zeppelin futures/Atari portfolio has not had a good year.

Chuck Schick on February 25, 2009 at 10:10 AM

Hey the Dow Jones is dropping too. I told you that it would drop today, if Barry didn’t offer to resign last night.

Vashta.Nerada on February 25, 2009 at 10:08 AM

Didn’t Obama promise he would halve Dow until 2012, or did I misunderstand..

the_nile on February 25, 2009 at 10:10 AM

It’s a perfectly-formed system for failure; no one would part with the credits in boom times, and no one will buy them in a bust.

I love it when a plan comes together.

a capella on February 25, 2009 at 10:10 AM

Just so far today-

NYSE – down 2.43%

Gold – up 3.17%

Obama limbo stock market lower now
How much further low can the Obama stock market go anyhow?

First he spreads his Marxist limbo feet
Then he moves to his Leninist limbo beat
Then he goes on nation TV some more to bleat

Obama be limbo, Obama make the stock market even more sick
Stocks go way unda Obama limbo stick

MB4 on February 25, 2009 at 10:11 AM

For you market history buffs: How many carbon credits does it take to purchase a tulip bulb warrant?

Vashta.Nerada on February 25, 2009 at 10:11 AM

The cap-and-trade system essentially subsidizes non-production

Sounds just like the ‘stimulus’ bill

Vashta.Nerada on February 25, 2009 at 10:13 AM

Great timing, Barack.

CP on February 25, 2009 at 10:13 AM

What’s that? Unintended whatsequences?

But, if there’s an oversupply of carbon credits, that means pollution is down, right? All we need to do it keep this recession in place long enough, and maybe we can save the planet

Note to all you out of work folks: suck it up, you’re an environmental hero! No, really, suck it up, your exhalations are spewing CO2.

hawksruleva on February 25, 2009 at 10:14 AM

Karma?

Johan Klaus on February 25, 2009 at 10:14 AM

bail out! bail out!

More pollution!

Skywise on February 25, 2009 at 10:14 AM

Reminds me of that story of how Chinese companies would build simple, bare-bones coal plants and then sell them to European companies. The European’s would then close and demolish the plants so they could get credit for reducing their “carbon footprint”, and they would hire the Chinese to do the demolishing.

Then the Chinese would rebuild the plant on the exact same spot and restart the process.

I need to learn Mandarin, those guys are genius.

Bishop on February 25, 2009 at 10:14 AM

Eventually, natural law must be satisfied. Things that fly in the face of common sense and logic will eventually die off. It is a certainty. The law may be getting hungry. And when the law wants to eat, it shall eat its fill – nothing will stop it – not Al Gore, not Barack Obama, not ACORN, or Arlen Specter, or Wall Street executives, or people not wanting to be foreclosed upon, or George Clooney. Are we coming to that point? I fear that we may and it may be too late to stop.

Somebody please tell me – is it time?

King of the Britons on February 25, 2009 at 10:15 AM

hawksruleva on February 25, 2009 at 10:14 AM

All that the dems need to do, is hold their breath.

Johan Klaus on February 25, 2009 at 10:15 AM

Looks like they will have to move to the next step – just nationalize anything that dares to be productive.

forest on February 25, 2009 at 10:17 AM

MB4 on February 25, 2009 at 10:11 AM

Obama treats the dollar like it’s Monopoly money, but Wall Street is not buying this gas bag. As harsh economic realities set in, the American people will stop buying it as well.

Won’t they?

flyfisher on February 25, 2009 at 10:17 AM

I need to learn Mandarin, those guys are genius.

Bishop on February 25, 2009 at 10:14 AM

I’m quite certain the Chinese are laughing at us while we dig our own grave. Cap-n-Trade… lol…. yes, let’s make our industries even less competitive against the Chinese… not only is their labor cheaper, but now their fuel will be cheaper too.

BPD on February 25, 2009 at 10:18 AM

Well, the stock market is off to a bang-up start this morning. Not even open an hour and its down 162.

CP on February 25, 2009 at 10:19 AM

Somebody please tell me – is it time?

King of the Britons on February 25, 2009 at 10:15 AM

I know the gutter and I know the stink of the street
Kicked like a dog, I have spat out the bile of defeat
All those beauties who towered above me
Those who gave me the smack of their rod
Now I will give them the gutter
I will give them the judgment of God!

PercyB on February 25, 2009 at 10:20 AM

You don’t ask people what they are willing to endure in times of plenty, you ask them in times of need.

Now all you need to do is figure out which question you are going to ask.

Bishop on February 25, 2009 at 10:20 AM

Well, the stock market is off to a bang-up start this morning. Not even open an hour and its down 162.

CP on February 25, 2009 at 10:19 AM

And this is BEFORE Obama unveils his 2009 budget tomorrow. What will that do to the market?

Doughboy on February 25, 2009 at 10:21 AM

Dear President Obama,
My name is Nigel Bituobimba and I am a minor secretary in the Ministry of Oil Discovery here in Bujumbura. I hesitate to bring this to your attention as I know you are a very busy man, but working on my own time I have discovered a way to eliminate carbon dioxide emissions when hydrocarbon fuel is burned.

With your help this invention can be manufactured very cheaply as costs are very low here in Burundi, but we need help getting this invention through your country’s patent office.

Once that patent has been issued, and again with some small financial support from your government, certainly a few hundred million of your dollars or less will suffice, we can, together, save the planet by stopping global warming.

I remain your humble servant.
Nigel

Skandia Recluse on February 25, 2009 at 10:23 AM

In all “fairness”, Obama should find a way to tax Al Gore’s carbon credits. (which should be bigger that the deficits by now)

Rovin on February 25, 2009 at 10:24 AM

BPD on February 25, 2009 at 10:18 AM

And using their advantage to buy America away from us.

What an economic boom we could have if energy exploration and production were made a paramount concern for our nation, but no, Ogabe had to pander and make ridiculous claims about renewable energy sources that will bankrupt us long before they become viable.

Bishop on February 25, 2009 at 10:25 AM

the American people will stop buying it as well.

Won’t they?

Not as long as 0gabe gives them bread, circuses and the promise of free money for doing nothing…

GeneSmith on February 25, 2009 at 10:31 AM

For you market history buffs: How many carbon credits does it take to purchase a tulip bulb warrant?

Vashta.Nerada on February 25, 2009 at 10:11 AM

No kidding. I’m picturing Al Gore wearing one of those funny hats like the dudes on the old cigar boxes.

Mr. D on February 25, 2009 at 10:31 AM

Some of the most outrageous, funniest, and most profane, videos on the net are Wallstreepro’s. His anti-stimulus rant was classic.

flyfisher on February 25, 2009 at 10:31 AM

We will bury you.
- Nikita Khrushchev

Only now can it be revealed that Nikita Khrushchev could see into the future, like Nostradamus, and the we referred to himself and Barack Obama, mostly the later obviously)

MB4 on February 25, 2009 at 10:32 AM

What? You mean selling nothing doesn’t make sense?

lorien1973 on February 25, 2009 at 10:32 AM

repeating history is so much more 21st century

gatorboy on February 25, 2009 at 10:33 AM

Skandia Recluse on February 25, 2009 at 10:23 AM

That’s awesome.

hoosiermama on February 25, 2009 at 10:33 AM

What an economic boom we could have if energy exploration and production were made a paramount concern for our nation, but no, Ogabe had to pander and make ridiculous claims about renewable energy sources that will bankrupt us long before they become viable.

Bishop on February 25, 2009 at 10:25 AM

A battery powered car in every garage and a nuclear power plant in every county.

MB4 on February 25, 2009 at 10:34 AM

They need to change the name to oxygen futures. It sounds more hopeful.

mchristian on February 25, 2009 at 10:34 AM

Time to short carbon?

flyfisher on February 25, 2009 at 10:35 AM

I’m quite certain the Chinese are laughing at us while we dig our own grave.

BPD on February 25, 2009 at 10:18 AM

They’re not laughing. They own way too much of our debt to be amused at our gross irresponsibility. They know that it means all those T-bills they bought up are going to be worth a whole lot less to them in the future — if they’re worth anything at all.

AZCoyote on February 25, 2009 at 10:36 AM

True confessions: I’m no economist, and I can just barely get my head around Ed’s discussion. In fact, the entire environmental debate makes my eyes glaze over.

That said, I do know that Democrats have a long history of being unable to see around corners. Their ability to see unintended consequences is evidenced in the failure of the Great Society and much more.

Obama should distribute a copy of Proverbs from the Bible, tell his consituents and Democrats in Congress to shut up and read it, and tell everyone to hunker down as he works with the GOP in Congress to restore the markets using the GOP suggestions.

Fat chance.

BuckeyeSam on February 25, 2009 at 10:36 AM

What an economic boom we could have if energy exploration and production were made a paramount concern for our nation, but no, Ogabe had to pander and make ridiculous claims about renewable energy sources that will bankrupt us long before they become viable.

Bishop on February 25, 2009 at 10:25 AM

So true Bishop. This should have been the driving agenda of Bush’s final term, but alas, the damn gas crunch came too late and the spending “appeasements” that got him his second term cost us the House. Of course the surge could have come a few years earlier too. Now we’ll have to wait another decade before we can purge the socialist promising the moon to the masses. As long as we remain in a “government-gimme” society, we’re screwed.

Rovin on February 25, 2009 at 10:37 AM

Obama should distribute a copy of Proverbs from the Bible, tell his consituents and Democrats in Congress to shut up and read it

Excellent! Every American ought to read it several times a year, preferably when they are doing any type of financial activity like paying bills and budgeting.

flyfisher on February 25, 2009 at 10:39 AM

What an economic boom we could have if energy exploration and production were made a paramount concern for our nation, but no, Ogabe had to pander and make ridiculous claims about renewable energy sources that will bankrupt us long before because they will never become viable.

Bishop on February 25, 2009 at 10:25 AM

Sorry to correct you Bishop, but this one is reality.

Marine_Bio on February 25, 2009 at 10:41 AM

Time to short carbon?

flyfisher on February 25, 2009 at 10:35 AM

Unfortunately, with the marxists, terrorist-lovers and lunatics in charge, it’s time to short carbon-based life forms.

Sad.

progressoverpeace on February 25, 2009 at 10:42 AM

As long as we remain in a “government-gimme” society, we’re screwed.
Rovin on February 25, 2009 at 10:37 AM

Which means you might as well tattoo “Obama” on your ass and paint yourself blue because the screwing part is happening as we speak.

51% of people are becoming beholden to the government and there is no way in hell they will EVER give up the gravy train, EVER. Tens of millions of baby boomers will be begging for help as their accounts disappear, and there is only one way to recoup that money; the younger generations.

Ogabe can’t make the money he needs to fund all his crap without raising taxes through the roof, but he’s smart enough to start small. But he won’t end small.

Bishop on February 25, 2009 at 10:44 AM

Dear Generation X,Y & Z, Thanks so much for paying for BabyBoomer Soc Security, BabyBoomer Universal Health Care, Groucho Marxist’s $9 Trillion Deficit, WindPower/Solar Power/Cap&Trade junkscience, Free Housing for all, Free college for all, etc., etc. Good Luck with that Financial Burden from Hell! s/o

on fire on February 25, 2009 at 10:44 AM

Cap and trade was one of enron’s business models. It encourages companies to reduce employment and production, which results in them making a profit on not producing anything.

Example: there was a spanish ceramic company that did the calculus and found it would be more profitable to sell it’s carbon credits, than any of its products; the result was it fired all of it’s workers, and the owners get a big fat paycheck for doing nothing.

Canadian Imperialist Running Dog on February 25, 2009 at 10:46 AM

I think it’s all Precedent YoMama’s plan to bring down China. We we go broke, they will too. Yeah, that’s the ticket. Get them evil commies! That’ll teach ‘em

darwin-t on February 25, 2009 at 10:46 AM

Carbon trading markets collapse

So is the stock market. Down nearly 200 points. They’ll probably blame it on Jindal, and the “just say no” investors who refuse to back the President’s non-leadership.

PUT THE GREEDY CAPITALIST INVESTORS IN GITMO!! NATIONALIZE THEIR ACCOUNTS!! STOP THE ASSAULT ON THE PROLETARIAT!!

JiangxiDad on February 25, 2009 at 10:47 AM

on fire on February 25, 2009 at 10:44 AM

i hope Generation X,Y & Z wises up some day and flips the baby boomers the bird and cuts the hell out of the programs.

Now I will click my heels three times…

WashJeff on February 25, 2009 at 10:48 AM

1) There is no global warming occurring, the current global temperature is well within the normal range. Climate change is normal and natural and driven by cycles of the sun not carbon dioxide.

2) Carbon dioxide is a beneficial gas that is part of the life cycle of the planet. Elimination CO2 from the air makes about as much sense as eliminating oxygen from the air.

3) So called carbon trading is just another tax scam.

Maxx on February 25, 2009 at 10:49 AM

Hey, it’s a “Gore-ball Vormening” thread (anyone remember the old “Diplomad” blog from about 4 years ago?), where is Starfleet Douche?

PimFortuynsGhost on February 25, 2009 at 10:50 AM

Any chance we will get to see Al Gore perped walk?

Blake on February 25, 2009 at 10:50 AM

The market is now down over 180 points while Barney Frank is “bloviating” to Bernanke—and Obama has spoken. Some one needs to pull the plug on all media exposure of our “governments” affairs, before they drive this economy into an irreversable END. Or, start the damn tea party!

Rovin on February 25, 2009 at 10:51 AM

I am saving my carbon credits to buy a house. Wonder if they will honor the credits.

seven on February 25, 2009 at 10:52 AM

Stock indices down

Firearms manufacturuers up

(Hattip Schwantz)

flyfisher on February 25, 2009 at 10:54 AM

He was trying so hard last night. It reminded me of a guy trying out for class president. It was that pathetic. Talk about cognitive dissonance – startling case of it. With all the idiot senators rising to applaud the idiocy. And Pelosi jumping up and down like a trained seal. It was just all too bizarre for words.

KentAllard on February 25, 2009 at 10:55 AM

Which means you might as well tattoo “Obama” on your ass and paint yourself blue because the screwing part is happening as we speak. Bishop on February 25, 2009 at 10:44 AM

Couldn’t this (tattoo) be described as the mark of the beast?

No thanks, I’ll pass……… :)

Rovin on February 25, 2009 at 10:57 AM

Can I buy carbon credit certificates and wallpaper my bedroom with them? After all, if this is a depression…….

Shy Guy on February 25, 2009 at 11:01 AM

As recession slashes output, companies pile up permits they don’t need and sell them on. The price falls, and anyone who wants to pollute can afford to do so.

Actually, this would be a good time to BUY carbon credits, while they’re cheap, in order to use them to “pollute” later on, when the economy picks up and companies start to bump against the limits.

Seriously, though, cap-and-trade is a good idea for REAL pollutants such as nitrous oxides and sulfur dioxide, which cause real harm to people and the environment, whose emissions can be substantially reduced by affordable technology.

The problem with CO2 regulation is that it is NOT a pollutant but necessary for life, it is produced by anything that burns, and there are no cost-effective means of preventing its emission, except to reduce energy consumption. The cost/benefit ratio of removing a ton of CO2 from the atmosphere is enormous–why spend tens of dollars trying to prevent the air from being a trillionth of a degree warmer 100 years from now…MAYBE…if the models are correct?

Energy conservation can be encouraged anyway if fuel prices rise high enough, no CO2 tax or credit is needed.

Steve Z on February 25, 2009 at 11:03 AM

He was trying so hard last night. It reminded me of a guy trying out for class president.
KentAllard on February 25, 2009 at 10:55 AM

I once represented a guy who secretly provided evidence of fraud to the feds. After a round of questioning one of the FBI agents said to me that the more they dug into the malfeasors in question, the more it looked like they were just “playing business.”

Obama’s an in-over-his-head fraud playing POTUS.

flyfisher on February 25, 2009 at 11:03 AM

President YoMama. Now that could catch on.

Starlink on February 25, 2009 at 10:52 AM

That’s “Precedent”. Remember, he’s a first. That’s why he was elected.

progressoverpeace on February 25, 2009 at 11:03 AM

Is AlGore selling off?

PappaMac on February 25, 2009 at 11:05 AM

The cost/benefit ratio of removing a ton of CO2 from the atmosphere is enormous–why spend tens of dollars trying to prevent the air from being a trillionth of a degree warmer 100 years from now…MAYBE…if the models are correct?

Steve Z on February 25, 2009 at 11:03 AM

The answer to this question for people like Al Gore is because, I can play this scam and get rich.

Maxx on February 25, 2009 at 11:09 AM

Why is anybody surprised by the carbon crash. Cap and trade was the productive of Ken Lay’s creative mind. The Carbon market is an ENRON product.

http://cei.org/gencon/019,05895.cfm
http://cei.org/gencon/019,02898.cfm

jerryofva on February 25, 2009 at 11:10 AM

Obama should distribute a copy of Proverbs from the Bible, tell his consituents and Democrats in Congress to shut up and read it

Excellent! Every American ought to read it several times a year, preferably when they are doing any type of financial activity like paying bills and budgeting.

I wish I knew where we could get inexpensive copies and have everyone send them to them. Except they’d probably just have a huge bonfire. Nothing would delight them more than to have a Bible book-burning. They are already heading that way w/ the insane lead rulings.

PrincipledPilgrim on February 25, 2009 at 11:13 AM

Steve miller summed it up SO well-”Grab the money and run.”

Amendment X on February 25, 2009 at 11:14 AM

On Drudge, 2 years from today:

“Cow farts, farmer arrested due to insufficient carbon credits.”

BPD on February 25, 2009 at 11:14 AM

While his education and health spending will cripple the economy, it’s the energy part of Obama’s agenda that’s going to kill us.

petefrt on February 25, 2009 at 11:15 AM

What? You mean selling nothing doesn’t make sense?

lorien1973 on February 25, 2009 at 10:32 AM

I blame Bush.

petunia on February 25, 2009 at 11:17 AM

how long before people start referring to it as CRAP AND TRADE ?

BPD on February 25, 2009 at 11:19 AM

Sorry to correct you Bishop, but this one is reality.
Marine_Bio on February 25, 2009 at 10:41 AM

Bullcookies. If I had a nickel for every new technology that people said would ‘never’ work, I’d have enough wealth to shame Warren Buffet. It took a severe gas shortage to get our wasteful, oil-besotted nation to even seriously think about alternative energy. Which we promptly forgot the minute it was over until ANOTHER crisis hit a few years ago.

The problem lies with libtards trying to force a very young technology to do things it is at present nowhere near capable of, never mind the fact that the implementors would likely redefine the word incompetant.

Dark-Star on February 25, 2009 at 11:20 AM

Gah! Sorry about that…@#$! you Konqueror and your *&%$ing pathetic Javascript support.

Dark-Star on February 25, 2009 at 11:21 AM

The Carbon market is an ENRON product.

jerryofva on February 25, 2009 at 11:10 AM

So are wind turbines.

On May 10, 2002 following the Enron scandal, General Electric acquired the assets of Enron Wind Systems, after which it ceased to exist.

petefrt on February 25, 2009 at 11:21 AM

Al Gore is insane. PERIOD.

volsense on February 25, 2009 at 11:28 AM

and that’s why our wise president obama decided that that’s the way of the future in america.

hayek2009 on February 25, 2009 at 11:29 AM

And beside the cap and trade crash, Al Gore’s dream satellite crashed yesterday too.

Maxx on February 25, 2009 at 11:29 AM

Indulgences now available on a 4 for 1 sale, limited time offer. Please send cash only, to me, I will send back your paid up certificate for whatever quantity of indulgences you need to satisfy your guilt level.

tarpon on February 25, 2009 at 11:32 AM

So, I don’t have to “respond now!” as that little missive from the AlGore flakes urges me to do?

The entire “carbon” credit thing is snake oil…a fraud. There is no reliable scientific proof that growing trees in Uganda is going to lessen the amount of carbon in the air over China. The idea of paying someone else so you can basically have the same amount of emissions is ridiculous.

Putting money in AlGore’s pocket makes sense to AlGore…it certainly does.

But, putting scarce funding into scrubber technologies, in turning lump coal into coal dust to burn in high heat closed furnaces makes a lot more sense…for the guy who owns that plant and the people who live in the area.

coldwarrior on February 25, 2009 at 11:35 AM

Oh crap, The Goracle must be shaking in his socks. Hope he didn’t have all his money in carbon futures.

As for the ‘green energy’ crowd. All we hear about in Kaleefornia is how good it will be. Their published report to the state legislature touted all of the benefits and lower costs for ‘alternative energy’. The report was peer reviewed and the critique was nothing short of scathing. All about ‘unsubstantiated claims’ and ‘over-blown and optimistic projections of efficiency’. The scary part is that these same people where the ones’ who pushed “energy deregulation” several years ago as a means to “save money”. And we all know how that turned out!

GarandFan on February 25, 2009 at 11:38 AM

When to the meters hanging from our noses to measure our cabonic exhalations begin, Obama?

profitsbeard on February 25, 2009 at 11:39 AM

Gore is nothing more than an environmental Madoff.

This scam by the eco-fundamentalist of the democratic party is nothing more than a money grab for personal gain and higher taxes to fund their socialist programs.


Al Gore’s environmental cash cow
The Profit of Doom

http://billhobbs.com/2007/02/more_on_gore.html

Gore is chairman of the firm and, presumably, draws an income or will make money as its investments prosper. In other words, he “buys” his “carbon offsets” from himself, through a transaction designed to boost his own investments and return a profit to himself. To be blunt, Gore doesn’t buy “carbon offsets” through Generation Investment Management – he buys stocks.

Hmmm. The Goracle is chairman and a founding partner of Generation Investment Management LLP, a boutique international investment firm that invests other peoples’ money, for a fee, into the stocks of ‘green’ companies. … So when Al beats the drum for possible future global warming, he’s also drumming up business.

The same people that saw all those connections of Bush and the War on Terror to Haliburton,big oil,and the military machine can’t seem to find any corrupt ties to the environmental scare and lining the pockets of crooks like Al Gore.

Many people see this scam for what it is and are revolting.
To introduce this scheme during “the worst economic times we have seen since the Great Depression” according to Obama is ignorant and will backfire on the democratic party.

People are having a hard enough time paying their bills without having democrats come up with corrupt and creative ways to steal their money:

Green tax revolt: Britons ‘will not foot bill to save planet’
Majority of Britons are opposed to increases in green taxation

By Colin Brown, Deputy Political Editor
Friday, 2 May 2008
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/green-tax-revolt-britons-will-not-foot-bill-to-save-planet-819703.html

More than seven in 10 voters insist that they would not be willing to pay higher taxes in order to fund projects to combat climate change, according to a new poll.

The survey also reveals that most Britons believe “green” taxes on 4x4s, plastic bags and other consumer goods have been imposed to raise cash rather than change our behaviour, while two-thirds of Britons think the entire green agenda has been hijacked as a ploy to increase taxes.

Mark Hodson, of Opinium Research, said: “Britain appears to be feeling increasingly negative about being more carbon neutral. We are questioning the truth behind being greener and many feel that Government is creating a green fear for monetary gain.”

Raising taxes on the very people who create jobs is just insane during this economic downturn America is going through.

Although the European Commission has said it wants to cut greenhouse gases by 20 percent by 2020, business leaders oppose the use of fines to oblige industry to reduce its emissions — especially in the current economic crisis.
The cost to industry is estimated at some 44 billion euros per year between 2013 and 2020, with a tonne (1.1 US tons) of C02 costing 30 euros.

Business leaders have denounced the policy as a “tax”, threatening to take their investments elsewhere and move their more polluting activities out of Europe.

liberals are always talking about how intelligent our friends across the ocean are and that we need to follow their lead concerning foreign and domestic policy.

They are rejecting this bogus scam to rob people of their money based on cut-and-paste junk science.

Will the democrats listen and practice what they preach?
I seriously don’t think so.

Baxter Greene on February 25, 2009 at 11:41 AM

That’s why Gore had the right idea: he only sells carbon credits which have no legal effect, like the Indulgences the Catholic Church used to sell.

That way there’s no danger of a market adjustment because the “next-biggest sucker principle” doesn’t apply — the idiot who buys them the first time around is already at the bottom of the food chain.

logis on February 25, 2009 at 11:43 AM

Al Gore is insane. PERIOD.

volsense on February 25, 2009 at 11:28 AM

He’s like Prince Charles. All dressed-up, nowhere to go, so he get’s into all kinds of mischief.

JiangxiDad on February 25, 2009 at 11:45 AM

The problem lies with libtards trying to force a very young technology to do things it is at present nowhere near capable of, never mind the fact that the implementors would likely redefine the word incompetant.

Dark-Star on February 25, 2009 at 11:20 AM

I wish it were that simple. I’m not saying that these things don’t work at all, just that they will never be feasible on a large scale.

Problems, serious technical problems exist for these alternatives. Which is why one of the scandanavian countries (Sweden I think) just decided to build more nuclear facilities.

Lets take a real look at the posterchild…

Wind is great…except that there are the little problems of cost to install, maintain, and what to do when the wind does not blow. Then there is the very real potential for impacting migratory birds, and probable consultations with regulatory agencies like US fish and wildlife, which takes a LONG TIME to implement through the NEPA process. Seriously, if there is environmentalist lawsuit waiting to happen, this is it. I can just hear the PR on the NRDC web page now, “the administration wants to install spinning blades of death for the ruby throated hummingbirds.” In the face of these two items, just how realistic is that option for the ever so ENVIRONMENTAL Dems?

Now for the one that may have some potential but the Dems will try to quietly ease out of existence….

The only growth potential for biofuels, looking at the potential for large scale production, are algal based compounds that would fuel deisel vehicles. Algal, because phytoplankton like Isochrysis galbana are very small, have an extremely high surface area to volume ratio and produce lots of compounds that would be useful. Now, this has some research money being poured into it, but it isn’t going to be ready for primetime for 15 years or so. (Assuming all universities are at approximately the same point as the local one that is doing some of this research) However, there is that whole carbon thing that chokes this down. Carbon neutral does not mean the same thing as 0 carbon, and if you look at global carbon flux with the oceans, it is a very complex system with no real way of targeting a single piece to reduce. i.e. if they are going to stick to the global warming stupidity, this is not a technology that will be favored because the goal is 0 carbon emissions.

Whatever the case, fun times are ahead for us all.

Marine_Bio on February 25, 2009 at 11:52 AM

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