Quotes of the day
posted at 10:30 pm on February 23, 2009 by Allahpundit
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“No one knows the economic effects of all this; estimates vary. But Obama’s political strategy stunts the impact from what it might have been. By using the stimulus for unrelated policy goals, spending will be delayed and diluted. There’s another downside: ‘Temporary’ spending increases for specific programs, as opposed to block grants, will be harder to undo, worsening the long-term budget outlook.
Politics cannot be removed from the political process. But here, partisan politics ran roughshod over pragmatic economic policy. Token concessions (including the AMT provision) to some Republicans weakened the package. Obama is gambling that his flawed stimulus will seem to work well enough that he’ll receive credit for restarting the economy — and not be blamed for engineering a colossal waste.”
*
“Another Maryland resident concurs: ‘I am an Obama supporter, campaigned for him, baked cookies for him; my husband and I are Democrats all the way, but this is the issue that gets our goat.’
Echoing Santelli’s complaint, a Silver Spring, Md., mom who did not want her name used adds: ‘I’m not sure why we should work and pay for someone else to have a granite countertop or an extra bathroom.’
When asked about people who hadn’t overreached but had lost their down-payment money when the value of their homes had dropped, she replies, ‘We put money in a 401(k), and we lost that money, and no one is going to give it back.’”
*
“But even if the stimulus is a magnificent success, the money still has to be paid back. The plan of record apparently is that we keep borrowing, spending and stimulating, faster and faster, until suddenly, on some signal from heaven or Timothy Geithner, we all stop spending and start saving in recordbreaking amounts. Oh sure, that will work.
There is another way. If it’s not the actual, secret plan, it will be an overwhelming temptation: Don’t pay the money back…
Anyone who regards the prospect of double-digit inflation with insouciance is either too young to have lived through it the last time (the late 1970s) or too old to remember. Among other problems, inflation works only as a surprise or betrayal. It can never be part of any public, official plan. Plan for 10 percent inflation, and you’ll get 20. Plan for 20 and you’ll need a wheelbarrow to pay for your morning Starbucks. But if that’s not the plan, what is?”
*
“I thought 8,000 was the floor, and it looks like 6,000 is the floor. People are angry, I’m getting angry.”
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I have prepared for massive inflation since 1999 and nobody listened. When talking to money managers in june of 2007, I predicted a support level of 7000, making my friends angry at my realist analysis. Looking back and adding to my analysis, I see a support level or floor at 4500 to 5000 looking back on trends, charts, economic theory, and history.
Ways to fight the Obama/Federal Gov’t problem: 1st, get rid of looking and classifying things on a linear left-right/repub-dem spectrum and instead look at the model a circular, where when an issue reaches a critical point, the progressive nature becomes conservative in nature.
2nd., Republicans and Conservatives must form a new party called “The Constitutional Republic Party”. This is the most inclusive party one could organize based on ALL Americans’ common system of gov’t; thus providing a common identity to build around. This would frame the party in a way to avoid most criticisms. 3rd, we must not turn the other cheek like Alinsky and other globalists, neo-Marxists, and Islamists expect us to because of Judeo-Christian Values. We must engage at every opportunity up to the point of violence. 4th, we must keep up the momentum of and participate in the the spontaneous, limited government protests at every step. 5th, these protests should conclude with a massive protest on July 4th 2009 in Washington DC where speakers will read the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and quotes from our Framers and Founding Fathers. 6th we must apply the Cloward-Piven method to the IRS by millions of people (tens of millions hopefully) filing their returns but not paying. This will cause massive chaos in the institution and bring about transformative changes in the tax system because the IRS could not figure out who paid and who did not (it is a civil crime by the way). The chaos will crash the system and force major reforms in non-discretionary spending. 7th, during this movement, be wary of those who are power hungry opportunists, and trust those that are in it to do the right thing for the Constitutional Republic. 8th, write in or call to your state legislatures calling on them to pass resolutions and laws declaring sovereignty under the 9th and 10th amendments and praise those that have in the past couple of years. 9th, crash the FED by investing in tangible Gold and some silver. The dollar will be lucky to see 2010 anyway. The FED does not act in our interests. 10th, loudly address the problem of rewarding bad behavior which starts with DC with their revolving door policy of moving around the very people, who go unpunished, that screw things up constantly. 11th, the CR party should call for the state legislatures to once again vote for their state’s Senate members. this eliminates foreign money from corrupting and compromising our gov’t. 12th, using examples from above and the illegal immigration problem, send a message that no foreign law or international law will supersede our founding documents, namely the Bill of Rights and the Constitution, which protects us from GOV”T. 13th, if the government does not respond, organize within the workplace to strike against the Federal gov’t, which has entered Corporatism or the Corporatist Welfare system, by not showing up from work. We all work for the Fed gov’t through the income tax. This is modern day slavery. 14th, demand of your fellow citizens to read history, economics, and philosophy, political science, and keep up to speed with current event through the internet, thus bypassing the state run media. Hold study groups to discuss the topics listed above. Shun those who find American Idol or who is screwing who in a reality tv show, more important to America than fighting for our founding documents at home.
15th, you must take control of the language and take it back. For Example, I refuse to debate anybody that calls the Iraq war just the Iraq War where I see it as a continuation of the 1991 Gulf War because the cease fire was broken not once but thousands of times. 16th, take the time to create packets of information with links, hyperlinks, and trackbacks on issues that threaten national security issues. 17th, make the masses aware that the media is spiking stories. For example the Jewish death marches in America and Europe by the Islamist-Marxist axis. Have video evidence ready to show people at all times by saving the videos to your phone or other portable device. 18th, Forming the CR party based on limited gov’t, checks and balances, federalism, and the specific powers delegated to the branches of gov;t. 19th, point out that the Congressional Black caucus is non-inclusive and based on skin color. Mention that is defeats the purpose of the entire minority movement since the founding of this country. 20th, call your Governor and express that he/she should not take the stimulus money, if they do, they risk not getting elected. 21th, Demand that leaders actually fix problems instead of only placing a band aid over a lethal laceration. Tell them that it is in their interests not to fix the problem because how could they raise money to get elected and reelected if less severe problems exist. Olson says that it is the number one objective/goal of a politician (especially in the legislature) to get reelected. This causes problems to be institutionalized. 22nd, we are all in this together and we must be willing to sacrifice to a point and beyond of our Founders/Framers something our youth and some foreign nationals have no concept. Add to that, what is is to be an American.
23rd, inform your congressman about Durban II and demand that if the USA participates in Durban II, then the congressman and/or Senator will not get your vote.
24th, overflow the legislative branch with phone calls to your reps and Senators demanding the withdraw from the UN, kicking out each country’s UN bureaucrats, and a closure of the UN building. 25th and most important, the gov’t fears the silent majority uprising calling for a return to a Constitutional Republic where people have the power. They know this; hence, the massive power grab since President Wilson which has grown exponentially ever since. Also, the move towards a centralized global corporate gov’t is further indication that the Internationalists are afraid of the people’s power.
This is just a start. Please feel free to add thoughts and criticize. We need to strike soon because right now the limited gov’t movement is gaining momentum everyday.
God Bless America and all her Defenders
Watching_Cloward-Piven on February 24, 2009 at 3:00 AM
I appreciate the effort you put into your comment, and much of it is good advice in general, but most American’s aren’t going to turn off their TV’s or other meaningless activities and come to terms with the world around them unless forced by fear, poverty or anger; preferably anger. And most liberals aren’t willing to listen to, (or are oblivious to), rational arguments regardless. But considering that we are in times when an increasing percentage of the population will be subjected to an emotional response of some sort or another, caused largely by our own government, perhaps they will be more susceptible to persuasion. So while your suggestions may not initiate the process of change, it may help to shape it.
But as long as leftists retain control of popular media and education, these steps are of limited efficacy. Only events can wake people up to reality.
Regarding your new political party, I would love for that to occur. I was advocating a new party here during the latter part of the primaries. Both of the present parties are incompetent. But again, short of unrest that forces enough American’s to a similar conclusion, most people will remain as loyal to their “D” or “R” as they are their favorite sports team.
But if the Dow really does fall to 4000 and Obama and his surrogates continue to hold mutual admiration meetings about there heroic efforts to save the economy, (and sending a billion dollars to terrorists), maybe something will finally spark with the public.
P.S. More paragraphs next time, please. :)
FloatingRock on February 24, 2009 at 3:45 AM
I appreciate your efforts, but with respect you miss one crucial point………….
………. we need to go back to the beginning, to the cause and hold those politicians and policies accountable.
When you have government interference in the free market, that forced lending institutions to make the bad loans in the first place, then you have government buying up bad debt and selling it all over the world with the guarantee of the American Tax Payer as collateral…….
Then you see a spike in gasoline prices over the Summer just before an election, then on September 15, 2008, a run on the Mutual Funds, to cause the beginning panic of the financial collapse……
There are people that need to be held accountable………
Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Barack Obama, Ted Kennedy, Franklin Raines, Jamie Goerlick, et al….
………… and most importantly, George Soros.
George Soros……. he is the ant in the after birth of this whole world wide crisis to bring down the United States of America, and he is pulling the strings now.
Don’t forget that the MSM backed Mr. Teleprompter, and he is too big to fail………… no analysis, no investigations, no questioning the absolute lies he tells day to day.
Fight……..?
……….. yes, but you have to know what started this all in order to defeat it.
Seven Percent Solution on February 24, 2009 at 4:03 AM
I’d like to see the Heritage Foundation and/or other think tanks analyze Rules for Radicals, outline it, keep the elements that are compatible with conservatism, (if any), and modify anything else that can be modified to make it compatible, (tossing the rest), and then publish it in some form. The second part of the volume could be suggestions for a point by point counter to the tactics outlined in Rules for Radicals, to give us a game plan to mitigate leftist tactics.
Again, I think it may be of limited usefulness because conservatives are simply unlike leftists. It’s the difference between a cop and a thief. But it might be helpful. But those differences don’t necessarily put us at a disadvantage. While leftists, because of their unpopularity and small numbers in the past, were forced to infiltrate and take over institutions where they could influence popular opinion and brainwash students, conservatives are probably more inclined to tolerate such activities until everything goes to hell, then fix the mess in a relatively short period of time.
I’d also like to see Republicans tracking instances of Obama ’s and other Democrats use of Orwellian new-speak so that these efforts can be countered and added to the so-called Republican talking points so that a response is near at hand for every Republican, especially those in the public eye. We shouldn’t use these tactics ourselves, but we should do our best to call them on it every time and try to show them for the deceitful fools they are. It won’t sway the average leftist but it may catch the eye of the middle.
FloatingRock on February 24, 2009 at 4:09 AM
For example, maybe we can use Acorn tactics against Acorn and sue them at every opportunity, or employ environmentalist tactics, which I think are similar, of putting up regulatory roadblocks that take years to work through but have to be overcome before they can accomplish something. Slow them down and increase their operating expenses.
Come to think of it, if a conservative group or author were to write a book countering Rules for Radicals, they should study the tactics employed by radical groups over the years to learn what’s worked best or what might be most useful to conservatives.
Anyway, I’m not sure it’s compatible at all or can even be made to be, it’s just a thought.
FloatingRock on February 24, 2009 at 4:27 AM
Reading these comments, I can’t help but think I should have stayed in bed this morning.
bopbottle on February 24, 2009 at 4:44 AM
The time to stop this runaway train was November. Now, all we can do is protect ourselves as best we can and wait for the inevitable wreck hoping it can be cleaned up quickly.
The deck is being reshuffled my friends. Prepare for a new hand.
TheBigOldDog on February 24, 2009 at 5:34 AM
Watching_Cloward-Piven
You are a Leader of defenders.
I pray that you are a terrible prognosticator.
IlikedAUH2O on February 24, 2009 at 5:48 AM
I took note about the need for paragraphs;) Also, thank yall for the responses and critiques.
We need to start somewhere, and I do not mind taking the heat. I wrote this strictly off the cuff based on conversations that I have had with many grounded, highly educated, tax paying, limited gov’t professionals with families, who are ready for action.
I sacrificed much needed sleep and extra study time for exams to write down what was burning inside of me for months. I hope my terrible style, form, grammar, and spelling will be excused this one time(along with the lack of spacing between paragraphs) due to lack of sleep and exam stress; furthermore, I still cannot figure out how to have spaces show up between paragraphs in the final comment preview:(
God Bless Yall
Watching_Cloward-Piven on February 24, 2009 at 6:00 AM
Perhaps someone familiar with exorcisms is exactly what we need right now.
turfmann on February 24, 2009 at 6:02 AM
furthermore, I still cannot figure out how to have spaces show up between paragraphs in the final comment preview:(
Watching_Cloward-Piven on February 24, 2009 at 6:02 AM
Thank President Bush
I shall not bore with numbers but I am familiar with them.
President Bush left behind so many deficits (and there are different types) that The One’s promise to balance the budget by 2013 put me on the floor laughing. All Conservatives know his word has an expiration date but this was still outrageous.
Except for making us and our children indentured servants, this house of cards will fall.
Watch the movie Life and Debt about Jamaica (with a quiet bash at Slick Willie) and how those poor guys live.
Check any Third World Country. No production, inflation, crime, wrecked national credit, corrupt government, capital flight in the face of wealth redistribution…sound familiar?
The One’s father worked in a nation that was 184th in per cap GNP. Maybe The One is working on us to make deserting dad look better by moving Kenya to 183rd.
IlikedAUH2O on February 24, 2009 at 6:10 AM
Hey, Watching. I really liked what you had to say, but like the commenters above, it was a bit tough without the formatting. So, I hope that you don’t mind but I ran it through Word for spelling and grammar, then formatted it a bit to make it easier to digest. I did this because what you had to say adds greatly to the conversation.
Background reading: Barack Obama and the Strategy of Manufactured Crisis
turfmann on February 24, 2009 at 6:22 AM
All points are well taken and add more pieces to the big picture.
What started the ball rolling were Internationalists disregarding the Constitution seeking to eliminate it. this document protects us from government and groups like Internationalists.
The Federal government has assumed powers not specifically delegated to them in the Constitution. Those powers were left to the states and people to exercise.
The states and people have had enough of the Federal government being involved in every aspect of our lives. The people believe the Federal government has way too much power. We are tired of being slaves to the Federal Government. We are fed up with being held accountable and constantly paying out of pocket for screw ups by incompetent, power hungry, and out of touch leaders with a global agenda.
All of whom are hardly ever punished, but instead, they are rewarded with a new high paying job in the revolving door system of Corporatism.
Watching_Cloward-Piven on February 24, 2009 at 6:36 AM
Both of the present parties are incompetent. But again, short of unrest that forces enough American’s to a similar conclusion, most people will remain as loyal to their “D” or “R” as they are their favorite sports team.
Just yesterday, the sometimes-conservative Michael Medved was once again tearing apart the concept of a third party; to the point where he seemed to be almost frothing at the mouth. While I appreciate his passion, I have yet to hear him tell us what we should do when Democratss and Republicans meld into one undifferentiated mass whose only real distinction is their hatred for the other’s designation.
SKYFOX on February 24, 2009 at 6:39 AM
Thank you for you help and all input.
Watching_Cloward-Piven on February 24, 2009 at 6:39 AM
Didn’t mean to put an extra “s” on the end of “Democrats” but I do tend to add a slight hissing sound when I speak it.
SKYFOX on February 24, 2009 at 6:41 AM
SKYFOX on February 24, 2009 at 6:39 AM
Sorry, FloatingRock, I forgot to attribute the quote to you.
SKYFOX on February 24, 2009 at 6:43 AM
I am fading fast and must study now. To be continued….
Yall Take Care
Watching_Cloward-Piven on February 24, 2009 at 6:46 AM
We put money in a 401(k), and we lost that money, and no one is going to give it back.’”
I’ve yet to hear Obama or Geithner address this “part of the plan”. Regardless of what “recovery” occurs, the masses- the actual working class group of taxpayers who keep the economy moving, are going to be saving every penny we have to retire on. I look for the “experts” to address this little problem, but I guess we’ve begun to look at all the stock and 401K losses as “Too bad, they had too much anyway” How dare Obama ask me to bail out irresponsible homeowners when we lived well below our actual salaries so we could save for retirement, and all that is gone? Sorry Bar- but I haven’t got any extra, “means” to contribute to your recovery.
anniekc on February 24, 2009 at 7:18 AM
Amen!
There are a couple of things that keep me from melting into a puddle of goo.
1. my belief in the 48%+ or – who did NOT vote a big fat D in November – that we will say enough already and do something about it. I think the “Tea Parties” are a start, but they’re not enough (or at least not big enough yet)
2. that I believe that what we’re hearing are embellished lies in order to create chaos and panic. Obviously there are huge issues in this country (a sarcastic understatement), but WHY would Mr. Hope-n-Change continually feed us “catastrophe and doom and gloom” on a daily basis? To poison our minds and souls, in an effort to defeat us, to make us believe that our very survival depends on “The One” and his minions. If you denigrate or abuse any creature long enough, it will soon cower in fear and then look to the abuser as their savior – you can’t bite the hand that feeds you and puts a roof over your head! Reason and logic are subjugated by these actions.
If our fearless leader told us “yeah things are bad, but together we can overcome this, yada yada” put some glimmer of hope in there, the psychology wouldn’t work and the people might not be so accepting of “we HAVE to do something and NOW or we’re all doomed” and we follow up with “Oh thank you, thank you, for saving us”. BS. I’m sorry, I’m usually not a conspiracy theory believer, but I do fully believe that this is the plan. Fear mongering, dependence, and domination from those who “I won, nana nana boo boo”
I love this quote from one of my favorite movies Independence Day (The strike outs and emphasis are my edits)
Mankind.” That word should have new meaning for all of us today. We can’t be consumed by our petty differences anymore. We will be united in our common interests. Perhaps it’s fate that today
is the Fourth of July, andyou will once again be fighting for our freedom…Notfrom tyranny, oppression,orpersecution…but fromand annihilation. We are fighting for our right to live. To exist. And should we win the day,the Fourth of July will no longer be known as an American holiday, but as the day the worldwe declared in one voice: “We will not go quietly into the night!” We will not vanish without a fight! We’re going to live on! We’re going to survive! Today we celebrate our Independence Day!maybe a “little” over the top :-) but valid imho nonetheless.
ladyhawke53 on February 24, 2009 at 7:23 AM
slowly but surely it begins.
True_King on February 24, 2009 at 7:31 AM
Groan. Another bailout bank blows millions
http://www.tmz.com/2009/02/24/northern-trust-bank-bailout/print
eaglescout1998 on February 24, 2009 at 7:32 AM
I believe everything Watching_Cloward had to say..A new party and movement is desperately needed…The Dems and Republicans are two sides of the same coin. The most important thing to both is re-election. The people haven’t mattered since Wilson’s administration at least. As I write over and over and over: It’s a Government of,by,and for the politicians. The tenth amendment died long ago. My two cents……
adamsmith on February 24, 2009 at 7:34 AM
As most of you know normaly I am the one ranting and raving and yelling and preaching to the choir here at HA and other sites about our need, as Conservatives, to organize, call, fax, e-mail and fight back against the Messiah…
However,
After looking at the most recent polls, it would seem that we are losing the information battle, the message is not getting out… How on God’s green Earth can around 65% of the American people think Obama is doing a excellent to good job as PotUS? How, after the abortion that is the Porlulous Bill, could anyone except a fdar left radical Socialist believe anything this POS says… Obama is a liar, his Administration in a joke of bafoons and morons. It is corrupt beyond any and all previous, Obama lies outright to the American people and the radicals in Congress are “changing” the very basic fabric of work ethics, values, morals at such a rapid pace it’s scary. I do not see anyone, besides Talk Radio and a very few Conservative lawmakers making any attempt to stop this rapid left turn in America. How can anyone think this is good, that America is headed in the right direction? We have lost the MSM, it is dead… We have lost the message of hard work and personal responsibility… Smaller government, States rights, Constitutional rights… All Conservative messages are still the right way, but not being articualted, not screamed from the mountains… Noone is sounding the alarm that America is “changing” to a lazy, fat, far left, Socialist mess… I’m depressed that the majority believes, after the first four weeks of hell, that The Messiah is doing anywhere near a good or even decent job… This is the worst, most radical, hate America Administration ever in our history and we are silent… What do we do? What steps can we take? Are we really in this big of a minority? Does the American populace really believe that we should rush and embrace this radical agenda and Nationalize and Socialize all aspects of our lives?
I am saddened and deeply worried about our futures and that of our children. I feel that we are doomed because we have no rights, no say, no voice and soon, no Talk Radio even with which to organize and fight back…
Mark Garnett on February 24, 2009 at 7:37 AM
FLAG DAY
Barry & Co. would have us all waving the white flag pledging bankruptcy for all instead of brandishing the star spangled banner representing our Constitutional Government that denies the legitimacy of Socialism.
NO MORE OBAMA
maverick muse on February 24, 2009 at 7:41 AM
The floor? Try 5000 or worse. The Dems are about to drive this economy into the ground. Anger may not wait till 2010. Impeach will have a nice ring to it come June.
EMD on February 24, 2009 at 7:45 AM
Mark Garnett on February 24, 2009 at 7:37 AM
I’m totally in agreement with your feelings, however I do think people are paying attention- at least more people – I’m finding people who voted for Barry and still insist he’s going to “save us all- eventually” but they are pissed about the stimulous bill and they no longer ridicule you when you accuse Barry of being a socialist, they’ve heard all the plans to bail out the irresponsible. It’s going to take some time for people to accept that they were duped, most people get their news, (if they get any) from Brian Williams or Charlie Gibson, As with any growth in life, it usually comes from pain, and when enough Americans lose their jobs and face record inflation, when they get sick enough of hearing how they have to “suck it up” for the good of all, they’ll revolt. Keep in mind that Obama has only been in office a month- people wanted him to be this big savior, and no one likes to be this wrong.
anniekc on February 24, 2009 at 7:55 AM
I am all in favor of throwing the crooks out and starting over. The problem is of time and money. While us law abiding suckers go out and work for a living and other acts of mere frivolity, the ARCORN nuts “organize” their communities.
It would also help to have a billionaire of our own to counteract Soros and his minions.
But I fear that it is going to get worse. A lot worse. I’m all for fighting, but give me something to fight with and someone to rally around. Someone who will not compromise and take no prisoners. Someone who is intelligent, fair, loves America and is willing to defeat the left “by any means necessary.” Heh.
J.J. Sefton on February 24, 2009 at 8:02 AM
A little perspective:
1900 to 1950 DJIA went from 60 to 200. In 1950 it was 3.33 times higher than 1900.
1950 to 2000 DJIA went from 200 to 11,000. In 2000 it was 55 times higher than 1950.
Now granted the US economy 1950 to 2000 was much more efficient than 1900-1950. But 55 vs 3.33? Was the US economy really 16 times as powerfull during the 2nd half of the century?
I say no. And the second 1/2 of the 20th centurey, especially 1980-2000 was nothing but a long speculative bubble. Getting back to 7000 or 6000 in 2010 makes perfect sense when looking at long term trends.
angryed on February 24, 2009 at 8:05 AM
wow..Mathews is getting angry? angry at the messiah?
daaaayum
becki51758 on February 24, 2009 at 8:06 AM
I’m old enough to remember the DOW under 1000.
It looks like I may be young enough to see it again.
MarkTheGreat on February 24, 2009 at 8:09 AM
People don’t get it.
The stimulus bill was just the first part of the Obama/Democrats plan.
There will be lots and lots and lots more spending by Obama and the Democrats to fill in the holes they missed or shore up projects that need more money.
albill on February 24, 2009 at 8:10 AM
RAAAAAAAAAACIST!!!
crazy_legs on February 24, 2009 at 8:17 AM
Seems like you are the one in need of a little perspective.
In the middle of the first period, 1900 to 1950, was this little thing called the Depression. The period from the end of the Depression to the end of your period encompassed another little historical event called WWII.
You can’t compare the first half of the century to the second half. They are not equivalent.
MarkTheGreat on February 24, 2009 at 8:18 AM
It’ll be about 3000-4000 by the end of the year.
True_King on February 24, 2009 at 8:25 AM
I wanted to add, I pray to God in heaven that I am wrong.
True_King on February 24, 2009 at 8:26 AM
So many words, and so little said…
Easier to just create a movement to elect the officials, one by one, from the grass roots up, to represent what you want.
Creating “chaos” doesn’t accomplish what needs to be done…but I am sure it was therapeutic.
right2bright on February 24, 2009 at 8:29 AM
That is what bothers me, they assume that the “stimulus bill” is it, and it is just the beginning…the first bill in the first month of office, we have 47 more months…
right2bright on February 24, 2009 at 8:31 AM
I moved my 401-k into t-bills in May, 2007. S&P was 1500+. I kept my principal but still lost money because the dollar is down over 30% in the last few years.
May I suggest sound money and letting the market set the interest rates. The sooner we embrace the pain from our passed mistakes, the sooner we will start to recover.
FYI: that lady who lost her house in Baltimore: she paid $87k for it and ran up a $270k mortgage. The bank was stupid and we and the banks are the victims.
Laurence on February 24, 2009 at 8:39 AM
The way things have gone, it’s more like the GOP setting the fire in the middle of nowhere and the Democrats get charged for arson- when they’re trying to put it out.
If you were wondering, yes I do have “skin in the game”. However, the business community has a certain debt to repay for thinking it was the “master of the universe”.
sethstorm on February 24, 2009 at 8:42 AM
The problem with the peons of the Left is that they will never accept who their real masters are.
Without business, the masses have no utility, therefore no income.
Hence the need to support grand theft.
OldEnglish on February 24, 2009 at 8:46 AM
ROTFLMAO…. Try 2000
doriangrey on February 24, 2009 at 8:48 AM
sethstorm on February 24, 2009 at 8:42 AM
So, are you advocating Legislated Socialism as a punitive measure toward business owners to “level out the playing field”?
kingsjester on February 24, 2009 at 8:53 AM
Seth,
Go back to the studio and write another 30 min set-up for a Bush bash known as the latest episode of Family Guy.
The Cobrakai Dojo
cobrakai99 on February 24, 2009 at 9:04 AM
From here.
JiangxiDad on February 24, 2009 at 9:04 AM
Dead on! I hope to catch you one day so we can chat. Conventional channels do not work against radicals in office as they will change rules if necessary to stay ahead of the oppo.
RepubChica on February 24, 2009 at 9:08 AM
Re: Watching_Cloward-Piven on February 24, 2009 at 3:00 AM
I would agree that there needs to be a new party – if the Republican’s can’t come to grips with the idea of limited government and not offering Socialism Lite®.
[On a personal level, I would propose that any Republican that so much as utters the word “Bi-partisanship”, be tarred and feathered, but I digress]
Consider that at least for now, every action has to be completely legal and above board. Of course, with the Socialists in charge, one can easily see a point where even expressing a contrary opinion will be illegal.
Nevertheless, our actions need to be (for now) legal and non-violent – we can’t let the Socialists suppress things based on these issues.
Consider this:
We need a simple (and for now, legal)plan to starve the beast. They can throw you in jail for not paying your taxes, or not filing or whatever. But they can’t throw you in jail for not working.
The concept is simply a work stoppage by the archivers to demonstrate what in fact will happen if the Socialists implement their plans.
We choose the most symbolic of times for this demonstration – Tax time, April 15 !!!!!
The Achiever’s strike can either be that on, April 15, 2009 or the entire week.
If you own a business, you shut it down for the protest. Take the day off and relax, or throw some tea, whatever you choose.
Galt2009 on February 24, 2009 at 9:11 AM
It has not hit daddy bush recession levels yet.
If it is a global depression it should go to 3000 and lower.
getalife on February 24, 2009 at 9:30 AM
I noticed that someone above referenced Cloward-Piven. It is worthwhile to take another look at the Cloward-Piven strategy for manufacturing crisis. While this may sound like this is from the ranks of the tin hat brigade, it is worth a look. It certainly might explain some of the strange undulations of this administration.
From The American Thinker: Feb 2008
moxie_neanderthal on February 24, 2009 at 9:33 AM
No, the dems do not want anyone to get any back because…
THEY WANT TO TAKE CONTROL OF YOUR 401 (k)
Brat on February 24, 2009 at 9:34 AM
You would think that this global depression would smack our friends from the right in their sick heads to see their ideology has failed but think again.
They are still clinging to their failed ideology no matter what he has done to the world.
That ladies and gentlemen is the definition of insanity.
Perhaps these words from their hero Murdoch will make them dwell in reality:
MURDOCH WARNS: NATIONS WILL BE REDEFINED, FUTURES ALTERED :
http://www.drudgereport.com/flashrm.htm
getalife on February 24, 2009 at 9:36 AM
The arrogant delusions of the peons of the Left!
OldEnglish on February 24, 2009 at 9:39 AM
Thanks, Galt. That’s a very good and doable idea, I think.
Thanks also to Watching_Cloward-Piven, FloatingRock, Seven Percent Solution, turfman and others here for one of HA’s most useful threads evah.
Let’s keep on sorting through our options, with an eye toward an action plan that will empower each of us to live out our conscience by specific, effective behaviors.
petefrt on February 24, 2009 at 9:49 AM
Yes, they want to take control of our 401 (k)’s.
Another reason for them to be trashing the stock market?
petefrt on February 24, 2009 at 9:52 AM
Oh right, I see. So Korea, Vietnam, OPEC embargo, the little thing called THE COLD WAR, stagflation in the 70s…..none of these should be taken into account either.
Hey look, if you think 1950-2000 was 16 times the value of 1900-1950, be my guest. Reality says otherwise.
angryed on February 24, 2009 at 9:57 AM
1) Who is going to provide the jobs and work for Americans?
*** Businesses are closing, losing money, taxed and regulated into the abiss…
2) Pay for all the spending the far left is doing for ACORN and “the poor”?
*** The rich? If you haven’t heard, they are closing down, moving assets, pulling from the market… There are NOT enough rich left…
3) Provide for your saftey and American security?
*** Obama is CUTTING defense spending and reducing our capibilities, releasing Gittmo terrorists and closing.
4) Are you in favor of paying for everyones health care and houses, even if the home owner made errors and mistakes in buying a home they can not and will not be able to afford?
*** I have asked you and other radicals to try this test before: Go to your neighbors and knock on their door, when they answer tell them you want them to pay your mortgage, take food of their table that they earned and feed you and your family, then say you want them to pay all your medical bills while you sit home watching Operah and MSNBC all day.
Please get back to us how that conversation goes, if you can walk…
Just a few of the many questions I have for left wing loons like you, but will get no answers or plans for future…
Mark Garnett on February 24, 2009 at 9:58 AM
All very good points on this board.
Here is an idea. Why do we sit here and talk amongst ourselves? We need to take the fight to the enemy. Be it on the ground protests, or, waging battle on the virtual battlefields (read YouTube and wherever else high concentration of people go, NY Times comments online, things like that). I say we take it to ‘em, be harsh, like they are. I remember, when I was in Baghdad, a Captain told me (a young 1st lieutenant at the time)…”Take your objective with excessive speed and violence”..that’s what we need to do.
I do what I can on my hometown newspaper boards. http://www.sptimes.com and http://www.tbo.com.
Just a thought and I am not trying to undermine the discussion on these boards.
vsunited on February 24, 2009 at 10:20 AM
Mark,
I can’t engage with those who will not admit their ideology has failed. It is a one sided argument like talking to yourself.
What is the cost of doing nothing in a global depression when the world feeds off our economy?
getalife on February 24, 2009 at 10:29 AM
What will it take to throw this charlatan out of office
Must the country be completely ruined first?
That’s what he wants.
notagool on February 24, 2009 at 10:29 AM
Mark,
There are a number of questions that liberals don’t like to answer, such as;
“On what day or week does a “clump of cells” become a human being?”
“How far would you go in questioning a criminal or terrorist who could stop your family from being killed, or your city from being blown up?”
Star20 on February 24, 2009 at 10:39 AM
I just read turfmann’s link (above in this thread), and it should be required reading. Most of us suspected that Obama’s radical ties were far more extensive than anyone in the MSM was willing to admit, but this goes beyond the pale. It is some scary stuff, but well worth the time to read and digest the extent to which Obama and his minions want to destroy this country. What I don’t understand is why. Why is there such a hatred for this country and its unique position in the world? Why would anyone purposely try to take us to a place where already discredited systems of government have gone? I truly don’t understand a mindset that seeks to advance such policies. Is it merely about power? Or is there something less obvious that I’m missing?
College Prof on February 24, 2009 at 10:40 AM
thank you for posting this. clear and succint. i am on board.
Why wait on someone else? Do some research http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=alinsky
Here is a summary of the rules:
RULE 1: “Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have.” Power is derived from 2 main sources – money and people. “Have-Nots” must build power from flesh and blood. (These are two things of which there is a plentiful supply. Government and corporations always have a difficult time appealing to people, and usually do so almost exclusively with economic arguments.)
RULE 2: “Never go outside the expertise of your people.” It results in confusion, fear and retreat. Feeling secure adds to the backbone of anyone. (Organizations under attack wonder why radicals don’t address the “real” issues. This is why. They avoid things with which they have no knowledge.)
RULE 3: “Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy.” Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty. (This happens all the time. Watch how many organizations under attack are blind-sided by seemingly
irrelevant argumentsthat they are then forced to address.)
RULE 4: “Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.” If the rule is that every letter gets a reply, send 30,000 letters. You can kill them with this because no one can possibly obey all of their own rules. (This is a serious rule. The besieged entity’s very credibility and reputation is at stake, because if activists catch it lying or not living up to its commitments, they can continue to chip away at the damage.)
RULE 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions. (Pretty crude, rude and mean, huh? They want to create anger and fear.)
RULE 6: “A good tactic is one your people enjoy.” They’ll keep doing it without urging and come back to do more. They’re doing their thing, and will even suggest better ones. (Radical activists, in this sense, are no different that any other human being. We all avoid “un-fun” activities, and but we revel at and enjoy the ones that work and bring results.)
RULE 7: “A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag.” Don’t become old news. (Even radical activists get bored. So to keep them excited and involved, organizers are constantly coming up with new tactics.)
RULE 8: “Keep the pressure on. Never let up.” Keep trying new things to keep the opposition off balance. As the opposition masters one approach, hit them from the flank with something new. (Attack, attack, attack from all sides, never giving the reeling organization a chance to rest, regroup, recover and re-strategize.)
RULE 9: “The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.” Imagination and ego can dream up many more consequences than any activist. (Perception is reality. Large organizations always prepare a worst-case scenario, something that may be furthest from the activists’ minds. The upshot is that the organization will expend enormous time and energy, creating in its own collective mind the direst of conclusions. The possibilities can easily poison the mind and result in demoralization.)
RULE 10: “If you push a negative hard enough, it will push through and become a positive.” Violence from the other side can win the public to your side because the public sympathizes with the underdog. (Unions used this tactic. Peaceful [albeit loud] demonstrations during the heyday of unions in the early to mid-20th Century incurred management’s wrath, often in the form of violence that eventually brought public sympathy to their side.)
RULE 11: “The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.” Never let the enemy score points because you’re caught without a solution to the problem. (Old saw: If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem. Activist organizations have an agenda, and their strategy is to hold a place at the table, to be given a forum to wield their
power. So, they have to have a compromise solution.)
RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works.)
another key in understanding what we are watching is in Cloward Piven Strategy. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=cloward+piven
Hence, the alias Watching_Cloward-Piven
AZ_Redneck on February 24, 2009 at 10:45 AM
A strawman and a outright LIE! Conservatisam has NOT been tried recently, since Reagan… Not in it’s true form… Your a liar if you do not understand that TAX CUTS make employers HIRE more, PAY more and PROVIDE more benifits… NOT tax increases on business and regualtions on PRODUCERS. All your kind want is a free ride off the backs of workers, of earners, of producers, while vilafying “rich” people. You idiot, rich people provide the jobs… Poor people do not… Rich people open and invest in business, poor people do not… Stop the class wars… Rich business people getting huge tax cuts and ZERO capital gains taxes is the perfect way to overcome the damage done by far left Liberals like Dodd and Frank forcing banks to loan to dirt bag dead beats and illegals… Your a tool and a liar to try to blame Conservative tax cuts and deregualation for the issues we face… It was Liberal Government intrusion and regulations and the war on the rich that has caused this… And will only be reversed when we talk the facts about who it is that provides oppertunities and who takes away Liberties… The government can not make ONE SINGLE JOB unless it’s in the government with it’s union thugs and corruption…
Mark Garnett on February 24, 2009 at 10:46 AM
Achiever’s Strike, April 15, 2009
The achievers in this country need focus on one important fact:
The Social-fascist Dhimicraps are going to take it from you anyways if you stand by and do nothing.
The time is rapidly approaching for patriots to stand up and refuse to be feed upon by the looters.
Galt2009 on February 24, 2009 at 10:47 AM
Take off your tin foil hats.
This disaster is real.
Forget your failed ideology and if you want an enemy that got greedy, it is Wall Street.
What should the President do to try to save the cost of a global depression?
Now, you are in his shoes.
getalife on February 24, 2009 at 10:49 AM
Forget it, you refuse to understand that the government and your Messiah will drive unemployment to over 25% within months. I owned a small business for over 15 years as I have stated before. I’m sure you have not. I would NEVER HIRE one single more perosn and pay higher and take home less for me and my family… So as long as you want to hammer on us rich and evil and tax us into closing, reap what you sow… Business that can’t make AND KEEP their profits will close causing more and more unemployment… The ones still working will not be able to pay for the ones not working… What do you not understand? If you take my money and give it to loosers, I will also stop producing and get on the dole… I will close, I will lay off… I will becaome one of the cult and suck the teet dry along with all the other morons that want to blame the small “rich” people….
Mark Garnett on February 24, 2009 at 10:58 AM
Indeed Mark.
Forget it.
Try a tiny bit of intellectual honesty and I might engage.
getalife on February 24, 2009 at 11:00 AM
np… When unemployment reaches 22% like it was during Carter, please remember this post. Unemployment is a direct reflection on the taxes and expenses a business must pay, the cost of regulations and MY PERSONAL bottom line… I will not work for less, I will cut people to remain at my level, it’s MY business… I took the risks, made the efforts, worked for sucess… So if your kind want me to hire more, give me a reason, give me more on my bottom line, get regualtions out of my way to compete, tell unions to get the heck out of my business and I will hire many, many more… It really is simple and not sure what your issue is about the facts…
Mark Garnett on February 24, 2009 at 11:20 AM
If business isn’t willing to step up and offer an incentive, then it may have to be an option. It would be a good time for them to dust off some sociology books to see where profitability intersected with humanity. The only thing business has done is revert to a form of Taylorism. Perhaps it may be time for them to read a few pages of Deming again before they act.
sethstorm on February 24, 2009 at 11:30 AM
“TARGET profit falls 41%…
MACY’S reports 59% drop…
OFFICE DEPOT shows $1.5B loss…
Home prices post record decline…”
Drudge.
I don’t think you will be hiring in a depression Mark.
Still you will never admit your ideology might have something to do with the depression.
Have a good day.
getalife on February 24, 2009 at 11:31 AM
Agreed, our nation is at stake.
It’s time to take the fight to the enemy, hold them by the nose, and kick them in the Ass
Southern by choice22 on February 24, 2009 at 11:58 AM
These numbers are a result of a lack of “non-essential” spending. While Target surprises me some, the others do not. If I need clothing or some other item, I will not be going to Macy’s to buy it, but rather WalMart where my dollar goes further. My discretionary spending at Office Depot has diminished to paper and ink and still I’ll go to WalMart first. A new house?? forget it. Although if I had some money, now would be the time to buy.
Mark had valid points, he’s a business owner, those of us who are not rely on him and others like him for a job. If his profitability is affected, he’s not going to hire me. He’s absolutely right, he took the risks, he has all the liability and if he’s unable to maintain due to excessive costs, he’s going to lay people off or worse close. Unless businesses are given incentives (ie:tax cuts, not bailouts) they are going to further tighten their belts. Which will lead to more profitability losses as you’ve noted already. It’s a vicious circle. This porkulous bill is not the answer. Businesses NEED incentives to put us back to work, at which time I’ll spend more money, which will increase profits for all businesses. You have to eat, you have to have a roof over your head and you have to pay your utilities. Beyond that….I’m going to be very choosy.
I’m not asking the government for a handout, I just want them out of my pocket and allow me to continue to support myself. But at the rate our esteemed elected officials are acting, I’m with Mark… why should I continue to work and give it all away to someone who wants everything for nothing and didn’t have the good sense to live within their means?
That’s the problem most of us have….. being robbed blind in order to support people with poor judgment. And the robbers just don’t give a $h!+
ladyhawke53 on February 24, 2009 at 12:00 PM
OT a little bit. I keep hearing about these “Tea Parties”. Are they on the up and up? Meaning are they really going to happen? I wish one could get organized in St. Paul, MN. I would definetly go to that one.
cjs1943 on February 24, 2009 at 12:25 PM
Don’t pay the money back…
If this is the case, he’d better be very careful with the Defense budget. Oh, wait…
How do you “take the fight” to the over 60 percent who are in favor of what is happening?
The mob wants this to happen. Blind fools.
Otis B on February 24, 2009 at 12:26 PM
It is really none of my business how a bank runs its business or entertains clients.
kahall on February 24, 2009 at 12:37 PM
When your money goes into it, it is.
sethstorm on February 24, 2009 at 12:42 PM
Clarified:
sethstorm on February 24, 2009 at 12:43 PM
Nope. Still not any of my business.
kahall on February 24, 2009 at 1:30 PM
I think a lot of the discrepancy here has to do with how the DJIA is calculated today vs in 1900. Additionally, there are more stocks involved now than in 1900.
The DJIA probably isn’t the best way to calculate the strength of the economy historically without adjusting for those differences.
I can’t offer any other solutions here, just a thought.
thequeball on February 24, 2009 at 2:29 PM
I have been thinking the same thing. We need activist pressure groups like ACORN but for our side. If CAIR can pressure Hollywood to drop Muslim reference from The Sum of All Fears, we can do the samething. Maybe Society for Promotion of American Values which can fight with Hollywood everytime there’s an anti-american, anti-military movie is produced. Same goes for every other sector.
We need to master the art of protesting. All these tea parties are a good start, don’t let go of the connections you make, form more lasting groups from these connections and let a movement grow.
We also need people who are so committed that they can infiltrate the enemy camps,become committed journalists etc to defang the opposition.
Let’s roll.
promachus on February 24, 2009 at 2:36 PM
Regardless of the chance of looking like a crackpot, or at least being accused of it, I’m going to go on and ask this. Am I the only one who thinks we might really be witnessing the end?
pannw on February 24, 2009 at 2:40 PM
And also, we need a Bohemia of our own. Not just feel-food apple-pie patriotic movies but art which can offend and stir controversy.
We need to take back universities one by one and defang the liberal praxis.
promachus on February 24, 2009 at 2:41 PM
I don’t think it’s over the top at all! Independence Day is one of my all time favorite movies and that scene is my favorite from the movie. I got massive chill bumps when I saw/heard it the first time, and I get them every time I watch it on DVD, and I got them today, just from reading this!!!!!
It just PUMPS (clap hands and flex) me up!! (thanks Hanz and Franz)
roxi618 on February 24, 2009 at 2:49 PM
OOPS sorry ladyhawke53, I meant to include your name at the end of your quote.
roxi618 on February 24, 2009 at 2:52 PM
From the above comments, I am now convinced that these bailouts are merely a ruse to take control of businesses, without stating a Socialist platform that people could judge for themselves.
Also, as for business offering an incentive to the workforce: they always have – work or starve. The nanny state has effectively removed that incentive, so anything that business now does, so as to protect its own interests, is only logical. If business people were to go back to the days of running a one-man show, hiring no-one, these Leftists would soon blame business for the mass starvation that would follow. They would demand that jobs be supplied – all the while ignoring the logical truth that beggars can’t be choosers.
Finally, I think that talking to the Left is counterproductive – they won’t listen, and we have only weakened ourselves by showing a willingness to compromise. It may already be too late – business should have stood firm more than a century ago.
OldEnglish on February 24, 2009 at 6:25 PM
If you insist on foregoing accountability, fine with me. That’ll be your problem.
They’ll be the first to hit the layoff rolls.
sethstorm on February 24, 2009 at 7:19 PM
Oh, I’m not foregoing accountability. Did you even read the article that was linked to which caused me to leave the comment? This is near the bottom, maybe you missed it.
So, they were forced to take the money and now we (and the government) get to tell them how to run their business? That is not how it works. They were entertaining clients which is a legitimate expense in almost any business and it definitely stimulated the economy. Seriously, how would you be better off today if this bank had not thrown this party?
kahall on February 24, 2009 at 8:09 PM
I’m afraid that you are missing the point. The government, out of the goodness of its heart, gave that money to the bank, expecting in return that said bank would be kind enough to become the government’s slave, and stop doing business in the old, well established way, and instead, start chanting “yes sir, yes, sir, three bags full, sir – just like they are supposed to./
OldEnglish on February 24, 2009 at 8:58 PM
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