Pawlenty on Porkulus: The Pizza Principle
posted at 12:55 pm on February 23, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
Jim Geraghty caught up with Minnesota Governor Tim Pawlenty, attending the National Governors Association meeting, and asked whether Pawlenty would follow suit with fellow Republican governors Bobby Jindal, Haley Barbour, and Mark Sanford in refusing Porkulus funds. Pawlenty tried to carve a middle path, pointing out that the strings attached to the stimulus spending won’t affect Minnesota in the same way as Louisiana, but justified taking the money on the Pizza Principle:
Minnesota ranks forty-sixth in terms of getting federal spending in relation to the amount of taxes paid — for every dollar we sent in to Washington, we get about 72 cents back. We’re a major payer of the federal government’s tabs, unlike many other states that I won’t mention. I say, when you’re paying to buy the pizza, it’s okay to have a slice. Now, if you were a liberal Democratic governor and you opposed military spending, are you not going to take National Guard funding? If you were a liberal who opposed No Child Left Behind, are you going to take federal funding in education? So I’m wondering why that standard is only being applied now to conservatives.
In large part, the double standard exists because conservatives object to federal control over the spending in the first place. Liberals don’t object to federal control over education and other extra-Constitutional duties, so accepting money for education spending in Porkulus even if they disagree with NCLB isn’t quite the same rhetorical leap. The proper conservative response to the argument would be that the federal government should quit taking so much money from the states — and then we wouldn’t need to worry how much of it comes back, because it won’t have left in the first place. Except for national defense, interstate commerce, and other explicitly federal functions, the money would get spent better and with more oversight if handled by the states.
Of course, that’s an entirely academic approach to the question. In reality, the money will come from Minnesota, and the question is whether the Pizza Principle applies. King Banaian, for one, thinks it a childish argument for accepting the money:
So let’s see:
- Others are taking the money too, so why shouldn’t I?
- Since I have to pay anyway, I might as well get my stuff. (Sounds like the argument for spending on the Twins.)
I hope Littlest learns better than this. We wouldn’t accept this logic from our children.
I think it’s a little more complicated than that. Minnesotans will pay for their portion of Porkulus, pending a hopeful repeal in 2011 if the Republicans can take charge of Congress. Refusing the money on principle sounds noble, but in effect will amount to a double taxation on Minnesotans. I don’t think that’s a winning argument, either; I think conservatives should refuse the money in an effort to reduce the spending and then demand a reduction in federal bureaucracy to return money to state control. I just don’t think that Pawlenty’s argument is as bad as some might think.
In terms of the situation with other governors, Pawlenty makes a good point in their support, regardless of what he himself does:
All the governors are going to take almost all of the money. I’m not aware of any governor turning down a substantial amount. There’s some talk about not taking unemployment insurance — about 2 percent of the stimulus — because it expands obligations in unemployment insurance, and might require a tax increase later on down the road. But the point is moot to Minnesota, because our benefit level is already beyond what the federal government would require.
None of the governors are refusing the entire package in any case. They’re looking line by line for unfunded mandates in the future and making decisions based on their own economic situation on each entry. That’s just good fiscal management, but it’s not a refusenik movement by any means. Since the cash involved in that particular line item doesn’t commit Minnesota to any more spending than already required by state law, Pawlenty makes a fair point that there’s not any reason to refuse it as Jindal has done in Louisiana, especially since Jindal and the rest will accept most of the monies from Porkulus anyway.









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i love how he forgets to mention that Palin is very likely to refuse alot of the funds too
ousoonerfan15 on February 23, 2009 at 12:58 PM
Ted Stevens couldn’t have put it any better.
Angry Dumbo on February 23, 2009 at 1:03 PM
What it comes down to, at least for the present, is that we’re screwed either way. The governors had been check those strings. If things continue to spiral downward, their states are going to get stuck holding the bag.
The operative thought should be: “As the federal government gives, it can also take away”. Remember Billy’s apology for “having to raise taxes”?
GarandFan on February 23, 2009 at 1:04 PM
I live in Minnesota. National Republican Leaders can’t wait to nominate this guy because he is a LIBERAL Republican!!! RINO Alert… FAIL!
sabbott on February 23, 2009 at 1:05 PM
Jindal already stole the moment with by refusing such a sizable portion of the funds. Now every other Rep Governor who does not reject a substantial proportion will be painted as a villain, as standing against America’s recovery, for purely political purposes.
I would love to see the percentages of money ultimately accepted by all Rep govs. The one who rejects the largest portion will likely receive the largest portion of Republican support in the next presidential primary, provided he/she runs, provided the stimulus package does not work.
Pawlenty is probably playing it wise here. But wisdom is not always rewarded.
The Race Card on February 23, 2009 at 1:06 PM
To bring in a earlier thread. If Senators were appointed by the legislatures, and not elected by the citizens of the state, we would be able to better see if these Repubican Govs words match their actions. Would these governors have instructed their senators to vote no in the first place?
WashJeff on February 23, 2009 at 1:07 PM
Taking federal money is like dancing with the devil. The money is stolen from tax payers and re distributed to individuals that didn’t earn it.
Money for the general public good like roads is OK. Picking winners and loosers amongst the population is a prescription for deep unrest and disenfranchisement.
saiga on February 23, 2009 at 1:07 PM
Gee, what’s the word I’m looking for here? Oh, yeah. PRINCIPLES. Forget about pretzel logic justifications. This whole thing stinks by its very nature and should be rejected outright.
J.J. Sefton on February 23, 2009 at 1:09 PM
How many prominent Democrats who opposed the “Bush tax cuts” refused to take them when tax time came around?
Realist on February 23, 2009 at 1:09 PM
Pawlenty should take his states share of the porkulus money and cut checks with it to actual taxpayers in his state. And then challenge Obama to come after him for not using it as told by all the strings that are attached to it.
roninacreage on February 23, 2009 at 1:10 PM
Based on Obama’s cabinet, the tax cuts were not big enough for them.
WashJeff on February 23, 2009 at 1:11 PM
Here in So Florida they found a road project to spend $1.79 billion in Porkulus on.
Here is the kick in the ass hidden in the article:
The historic project will be built by a Spanish construction conglomerate teaming
I guess Americans don’t “Conglomerate” anymore either.
Bicyea on February 23, 2009 at 1:12 PM
If I were Pawlenty, I too would have a personal beef with Mrs. Palin.
But being shunned for VP aside, while Palin might make a show of refusing stimulus money (much like she “refused” the money for the Bridge to Nowhere right before she accepted it after it was relabeled as “highway funding”), it’s good to remember that Alaska is second only to Alabama in the rate of Federal dollars received per tax dollars paid into the Federal Treasury.
Alaska may be the reddest of the red states when it comes to voting, but when it comes to suckling on the Federal teat, it’s firmly in the lead.
factoid on February 23, 2009 at 1:15 PM
I love the way they discribe the people that are willing to defend the constitution against a government run amok is the “Buba effect”. How condesending and arrogant these pinheads are.
The defenders of the constitution against enemys within should be called the “Patriot effect”. The urban pseudo intellectual sheeple that choose to cow tow to the “hope and change” they don’t comprehend should be called the “Stooge effect”
Sitting on the sidelines and watching the burning economy being doused with gasoline is gut wrenching. But, there is no shortage of morons cheering the whole way. Sick.
saiga on February 23, 2009 at 1:15 PM
Gov. Rendell will be taking the money, of course. Word is he wants to build an el train from Pittsburgh to Philly…with a stop in Johnstown naturally. No stop here tho…
I live in a small central Pa town that has only 3 factories and very little jobs. The majority of the citizens are elderly, unemployed, on welfare and anyone who works, work in Altoona or St. College. We have no new jobs here, but the stimulus money is being sent to Philly, Pittsburgh, Erie, St. College…all cities that have many employment opportunities.
How is this stimulus going to help my town? answer..its not.
becki51758 on February 23, 2009 at 1:16 PM
Neat little argument Ed. ‘Line by line..’ These guys are smarter than I gave them credit for.. However do wonder about our guy in NH.
jeanie on February 23, 2009 at 1:18 PM
Yes, but hasn’t that been reduced significantly under Palin? I know I shouldn’t let facts get in the way or anything, but….
BPD on February 23, 2009 at 1:19 PM
Did Pawlenty read the bill?
Jindal did and this was his take.
http://betsyspage.blogspot.com/2009/02/why-some-gop-governors-oppose-stimulus.html
Angry Dumbo on February 23, 2009 at 1:20 PM
Soon, many many middle-class people will be eligible for taxpayer subsidized health insurance in blue states like NY. Will individual middle-class people take it for the reasons above, or refuse on principle?
The resistance has to be organized. If it isn’t, people will cave.
JiangxiDad on February 23, 2009 at 1:21 PM
It is simply political payback graft. Just tell them you are with Acorn, and they will give you all you want. Better yet, tell them you are an illegal alien from Haiti and they will pay like a slot machine.
But never admit the shame of having a good job. That is the kiss of death to these government trough sloppers.
saiga on February 23, 2009 at 1:22 PM
poor Mullet….is PMSNBC the best you can do…
Question…if everyone in this state hates you…do you really think the nation will accept you as a Presidential candidate???
But i will give you props for going after the Teachers Unions…and the Cooperate tax rates…
alexraye on February 23, 2009 at 1:23 PM
The way that sentence reads in full is:
Way to apply creative editing, Bicyea.
factoid on February 23, 2009 at 1:26 PM
HOw about I tell them I am an illegal Haitian, who works for Acorn and has 14 kids? I could be on the View! lol
becki51758 on February 23, 2009 at 1:26 PM
I think the Gov’s that are balking at the money have an altogether different reason than is being reported.
The Oministration will have, by virtue of putting the Gov’s essentially in charge of the spending of the money, washed it’s hands of any failures or stealing of the money. They will have the built-in excuse of “Hey, the Gov of X state was overseeing those funds, not us”.
Smart Gov’s will avoid this trap by being forced to accept the funds either through popular demand or legislative action.
BobMbx on February 23, 2009 at 1:28 PM
I think you missed the point. Which is: Why a Spanish conglomerate? Why not an American (or more to the point, a Florida) based conglomerate?
BobMbx on February 23, 2009 at 1:31 PM
Apparently he did a nice interview Maddow. Could we have that please?
promachus on February 23, 2009 at 1:32 PM
I don’t know? Perhaps they had the best offer? Or are you suggesting Gov. Crist (R) is in the tank for Spanish conglomerates?
Does it really even matter? If the work is done by Florida subcontractors using Florida workers, does it really matter if the profit goes to international investors holding shares in a public company based in Spain as opposed to international investors holding shares in a public company based in Texas?
I really don’t know – do you?
factoid on February 23, 2009 at 1:40 PM
I have no reason to believe that it has been reduced, other than Mrs. Palin herself likes to claim that she doesn’t like her state taking prime position at the Federal trough. But I’ve been wrong before, so if you have some solid statistics I’ll be happy to look at them.
factoid on February 23, 2009 at 1:43 PM
Awesome post. My take is that somewhere down the line the Mullet is looking to take Tucker Carlson’s job as MSDNC’s house conservative. ; ))
Angry Dumbo on February 23, 2009 at 1:52 PM
Alaska is unique on the American landscape (as is Hawai’i). It’s an American exclave, it has a different climate, wildly expansive geography, and due to all of these factors, requires Federal subsidies to exist as our 49th State.
This can, in part, be reduced if we allowed Alaska to fully tap into their moneymakers — natural resources (energy, timber, iron-ore) — without Federal regulations.
They can’t tap into that, so they’re, large in part, subsidized. Alaska will ALWAYS be subsidized by the Feds if the locks on resource extraction are not removed.
It’s not like Alaska is living high on the hog or dumping money into wasteful spending like social engineering/welfare programs. When it comes to Alaska, there’s a helluva lot of context.
lansing quaker on February 23, 2009 at 1:52 PM
You know, The lower 48 need Alaksa in the Union alot more then Alaska needs the lower 48. It is a great strategic point militarily, it has oil & natural gas resources that put most states to shame, huge fishing areas. I’ll gladly pay more to subsidize an Alaskan than 1 cent to a New Yorker or a Californian.
portlandon on February 23, 2009 at 1:56 PM
Our welfare level is way, way, way above what it should ever be. So many immigrants come here because of the generous welfare, and people from out of state come here to get their check and then cash it elsewhere.
Liberals want to build a bullet train from Chicago to the Twin Cities so it’s easier for the leeches, among other things.
Grafted on February 23, 2009 at 2:07 PM
Disqualified.
Quetzal on February 23, 2009 at 2:07 PM
No wonder this guy was in the running for McCain’s Veep pick. He would have been a better fit and then Palin wouldn’t have been hung out to dry so soon into her career.
**D!ckwad Moderates**
Sultry Beauty on February 23, 2009 at 2:41 PM
Unlike the Great Depression of the 1930s when there was NO WELFARE system and unions were only yet organizing, not the bloated giants they’ve become, TODAY government welfare is an entrenched way of governing that has bloated beyond anything that FDR and LBJ either wanted or would recognize.
So the Feds MUST NOT get away with having created ANOTHER socialist bureaucracy to bleed us all dry rather than allow our scraping by. The Feds gag us, blanketing the nation with suffocating taxes that are all going to foreign bankers, not to be returned to the taxpayer. There is no “relief”–these taxes and Obama’s legislation stimulate suffering.
Governors who link their states to Obama’s chain gang need a rude awakening to their Constitutional responsibility to maintain the sovereign integrity of their respective states.
Pawlenty’s rationalism both encourages and excuses lunacy because it tastes good. Rather than pay for pizza you didn’t order, send it back, and DON’T PAY the bill. On principle, fight the socialization of our federal government. There are plenty of legislators and government employees who from SLOTH don’t pay THEIR taxes. Pawlenty won’t be goaded by a carrot, nor will he attempt the Wimpy hamburger on credit plan, but mention pizza and he’s salivating like Pavlov’s Dog. Pathetic.
maverick muse on February 23, 2009 at 2:54 PM
yes.
maverick muse on February 23, 2009 at 2:56 PM
The stimulus money reminds me of Protestant Soup. Back in the day (the Irish famine days) protestants would offer catholics soup if they renounced the Pope. Some took the soup , others didn’t. Guess which ones I admire? (no – its not the protestants).
Fuquay Steve on February 23, 2009 at 3:37 PM
I know it’s a bit late for anyone to read this, but the fact is that Jindal’s reasoning for refusing the pittance that he’s refusing is that it would tie his state into paying higher unemployment benefits than they currently are paying.
That’s not the case in Minnesota, where the state is already committed to substantially more than the federal mandates require.
Accepting this particular bit that Jindal so high-mindedly refused would not save the Minnesota taxpayers a penny.
Notice that conservative icon Bobby isn’t refusing any money that will not cost his state in the long run. He’s not out to save the American taxpayers a penny. He’s working to save the Louisiana taxpayers future encumbrances.
Same with Pawlenty. The difference is that this particular aspect of the porkulus package won’t cost Minnesotans anything in the future that they’re not already on the line for in the present.
notropis on February 23, 2009 at 10:26 PM
Pardonme but the strings placed on $’s by the federal government (our congress) are so far reaching and detrimental to our economic well being. Let’s look at an example: Freddie and Fannie several years ago established a class of stock that was only able to be purchased by banks. This stock was set up to pump money into Freddie and Fannie so government (our congress) REQUIRED banks to buy the special stock. So folks, your local bank that you feel is so prudent in its business affairs was REQUIRED to buy the stock even when they knew it was not in their best interest or the interest of its depositors. But they had NO CHOICE in the matter because (our congress) needed the money to build up Freddie and Fannie. Now turn the page: with the collapse of Freddie and Fannie what was to happen to all this stock that the regional and local banks were REQUIRED to buy. Now the government (our congress) REQUIRED the banks to write off the stock that they were REQUIRED to buy. Do you see the picture? The losses were and are enormous! All at the hands of (our congress). Do you know who really lost all the money? You did. Now your local and regional bank does not have as much money to lend and you know what that does to the local real estate business and the small businesses in your home area. What’s my point? Money that comes from the government is coming with strings that reach so far into your pocket and you don’t even realize it. (our congress) is in business for itself and its power. They have their pet projects and they don’t care how they achieve them and they have learned to do away with transparency and cover up their maneuvers so that we don’t even know what they are doing.
The few Governors who are now considering not taking the money from the “stimulus package” are perhaps much wiser than they are given credit. They know the traps that are hidden in the package that will gain more power for (our congress) and do not want to subject their citizens to the future problems similar to what happened to the banks. God bless these people and give them the strength to resist. It will, in the long run, be a saving grace for their states and citizens.
Pardonme on February 24, 2009 at 12:47 PM