Obama plans “soak the rich” class-warfare economics

posted at 9:37 am on February 23, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

Those who do not read history are doomed to repeat it.  And those who repeat failed policies of the past are doomed to failure themselves, and the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.  We can apply all of these proverbs to what the Washington Post reports as the next phase of Deadbeatonomics, in which Obama will try the old populist “soak the rich” policies in order to close a deficit that he himself exploded in the past two weeks:

President Obama is putting the finishing touches on an ambitious first budget that seeks to cut the federal deficit in half over the next four years, primarily by raising taxes on businesses and the wealthy and by slashing spending on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, administration officials said.

In addition to tackling a deficit swollen by the $787 billion stimulus package and other efforts to ease the nation’s economic crisis, the budget blueprint will press aggressively for progress on the domestic agenda Obama outlined during the presidential campaign. This would include key changes to environmental policies and a major expansion of health coverage that he hopes to enact later this year.

A summary of Obama’s budget request for the fiscal year that begins in October will be delivered to Congress on Thursday, with the complete, multi-hundred-page document to follow in April. But Obama plans to unveil his goals for scaling back record deficits and rebuilding the nation’s costly and inefficient health care system tomorrow, when he addresses lawmakers and budget experts at a White House summit on restoring “fiscal responsibility” to Washington.

Yesterday in his weekly radio and Internet address, Obama said he is determined to “get exploding deficits under control” and said his budget request is “sober in its assessments, honest in its accounting, and lays out in detail my strategy for investing in what we need, cutting what we don’t, and restoring fiscal discipline.”

Take a look at the second paragraph again.  Obama wants to jack up taxes to cut the deficit, but still wants “a major expansion of health coverage” — even with the entitlement meltdown rapidly approaching.  If Obama cares about deficits so much, he should reduce spending, especially as he demands more from Americans’ paychecks to fix the budget hole.

Raising taxes in a recession is about the surest way to ensure its continuance.  We’ve seen this over and over again in American history, including the Great Depression.  With the budget deficits where they are, permanent tax cuts are almost certainly political suicide, but better to do nothing than to take capital out of the market.  Yet that is exactly what Obama proposes, albeit perhaps a bit milder than some may have expected.  The top marginal rate will increase from 35% to 39.6% for earners over $250K, and capital gains taxes will go from 15% to 20%, lower than the 28% Obama suggested in the debates last spring.

However, the capital-gains tax is crucial to the economy.  Bush lowered it in the midst of the last recession and economic upheaval after 9/11 to prompt investors to put their money at risk.  Raising the tax on investment gains will ensure that we see less investment at the moment we need more of it.  Jobs get created by investors taking risks, and if the reward on risk taking becomes low enough, they’ll sink their money into safer havens instead of building job-creating businesses.

Obama wants to cut spending from 26% of GDP to 22%, which is a worthy goal, but it should be lower than that.  However, he plans to make those cuts primarily in defense, and specifically in Iraq and Afghanistan.  The former has settled down to where massive outlays should no longer be necessary and where costs should get budgeted normally, rather than as riders.  But Obama insisted that he would fight the war in Afghanistan more robustly than the Bush administration, claiming that we had taken our eyes off the ball there.  How does cutting the budget for that front in the war on terror make our effort more robust?  We’re not going to win that war on the cheap, as we discovered after the Clinton efforts to do just that.

Basically, we’re going to get a replay of failed liberal economic policies in the next two years — nothing we haven’t seen before, but nothing that worked before, either.  It’s the kind of populist nonsense on which Obama got elected, but still far milder than some of the lunatic economic policies we saw during the 1970s.  When these taxes go up, expect the economy to slow even more and Obama to miss his targets for revenue, as he and his team have apparently never heard of dynamic tax analysis.  When that happens, the GOP will be poised to win back control of the House in 2010.

Blowback

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The top marginal rate will increase from 35% to 39.6% for earners over $250K, and capital gains taxes will go from 15% to 20%, lower than the 28% Obama suggested in the debates last spring.

However, the capital-gains tax is crucial to the economy.

I must really disagree with the target acquisition here. This is absolutely chicken feed in comparison to Porkosaurus Rex/Bailouts for Morons and plethora of mutant offspring and as to a capital gains tax of 20% instead of 15% – LOL – that’s just going to mean that you will only get to keep 80% of nothing instead of 85% of nothing. How much bread or cake will that difference buy you?

MB4 on February 23, 2009 at 1:14 PM

One COULD see all kinds of things. Unfortunately to get published one HAS to have evidence for their assertions.

DeathToMediaHacks on February 23, 2009 at 1:10 PM

And the great Keynesian theorists cite their fellow Keynesian theorists as evidence of a viable economic policy. I see how it works now.

genso on February 23, 2009 at 1:14 PM

This is what business deserves for losing the trust of the people.

sethstorm on February 23, 2009 at 1:16 PM

Did you not notice that there isn’t a single footnote on the first 4 pages

DeathToMediaHacks on February 23, 2009 at 1:08 PM

How many footnotes are in Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address?

jeff_from_mpls on February 23, 2009 at 1:17 PM

This is what business deserves for losing the trust of the people.

sethstorm on February 23, 2009 at 1:16 PM

No…this is what the people get for throwing their trust at the government.

genso on February 23, 2009 at 1:17 PM

Raising taxes in a recession [and giving the money to voters] is about the surest way to ensure its continuance reelected.

29Victor on February 23, 2009 at 1:18 PM

The market is driven by all sorts of factors, some rational some quite the opposite.

A rumor here or there can drop the market in droves, or force it upwards in an instant. But, there has to be someone, or several, who can assume the risk, suffer the financial consequences if they are wrong, in order to get that first series of sell orders rolling.

Soros made billions with a small amount of capital expended and did so on rumors and sell-offs of foreign currency markets…almost brought the British Pound to its knees, ruined a few other nations’ currencies as well along the way.

It didn’t have to be a total Soros game…but just a little bit of Soros in the right circles at the right time…the market reacts. He buys another yacht.

coldwarrior on February 23, 2009 at 1:18 PM

genso

So who’s working w/him? $550 billion sell off in 3 hours? It was designed to happen when it did. Maybe triggered by surging poll #s for McCain.

I’m just curious as why no one in the financial news biz is curious about who did it? And why? Limbaugh has mentioned it. Breitbart and I read an article at TownHall about it and the reporter was asking the same things. Who? And why doesn’t anyone want to know?

JAM on February 23, 2009 at 1:19 PM

coldwarrior on February 23, 2009 at 1:18 PM

Or buys a government.

genso on February 23, 2009 at 1:19 PM

JAM on February 23, 2009 at 1:19 PM

And we have Santelli, who, BTW, was saying this when it was happening. The media was in the tank. Why would they say anything?

genso on February 23, 2009 at 1:21 PM

It will all be okay. Hah-vahd University just awarded Ozbama a Diploma of Thinkology.

viking01 on February 23, 2009 at 1:22 PM

No…this is what the people get for throwing their trust at the government.

genso on February 23, 2009 at 1:17 PM

At least the government is acting on the wishes of a people long-tired of business evading accountability.

They’re getting what they want.

sethstorm on February 23, 2009 at 1:23 PM

When that happens, the GOP will be poised to win back control of the House in 2010.

Reminds of the Little Red Hen Story:

THE LITTLE RED HEN simply stated……..”Who will help me Plant My Wheat?”
‘Not I,’ said the cow.
‘Not I,’ said the duck.
‘Not I,’ said the pig.
‘Not I,’ said the goose.
‘Then I will do it by myself,’ said the little red hen, and so she did.

The wheat grew very tall and ripened into golden grain. ‘Who will help me reap my wheat?’ asked the little red hen.
‘Not I,’ said the duck..
‘Out of my classification,’ said the pig.
‘I’d lose my seniority,’ said the cow.
‘I’d lose my unemployment compensation,’ said the goose.
‘Then I will do it by myself,’ said the little red hen, and so she did.

At last it came time to bake the bread. ‘Who will help me bake the bread?’ asked the little red hen.
‘That would be overtime for me,’ said the cow.
‘I’d lose my welfare benefits,’ said the duck.
‘I’m a dropout and never learned how,’ said the pig.
‘If I’m to be the only helper, that’s discrimination,’ said the goose..
‘Then I will do it by myself,’ said the little red hen. She baked five loaves and held them up for all of her neighbors to see.

They wanted some and, in fact, demanded a share. But the little red hen said, ‘No, I shall eat all five loaves.’

‘Excess profits!’ cried the cow. (Nancy Pelosi)
‘Capitalist leech!’ screamed the duck. (Barbara Boxer)
‘I demand equal rights!’ yelled the goose. (Jesse Jackson )
The pig just grunted in disdain. (Ted Kennedy)
And they all painted ‘Unfair’ picket signs and marched around and around the little red hen, shouting obscenities.

Then the farmer (Obama) came. He said to the little red hen, ‘You must not be so greedy.’
‘But I earned the bread,’ said the little red hen.
‘Exactly,’ said Barack the farmer. ‘That is what makes our free enterprise system so wonderful. Anyone in the barnyard can earn as much as he wants. But under our modern government regulations, the productive workers must divide the fruits of their labor with those who are lazy and idle.’

And they all lived happily ever after, including the little red hen, who smiled and clucked, ‘I am grateful, for now I truly understand.’

But her neighbors became quite disappointed in her. She never again baked bread because she joined the ‘party’ and got her bread free. And all the Democrats smiled. ‘Fairness’ had been established. Individual initiative had died, but nobody noticed; perhaps no one cared…so long as there was free bread that ‘the rich’ were paying for.

Kevin in Washington State on February 23, 2009 at 1:23 PM

The $550 billion was pulled out of money market funds to try to meet margin calls and rebalance a whole lot of fund accounts after the collapse of Lehman Bros. The original $700 billion bailout was a gigantic CYA by Paulson and Tim Geithner to cover up their monumental screwup in allowing Lehman to fail and to try to get some of that $550 billion back into the banks. All of these giant investment banks, insurance companies, and private equity funds re so interconnected that it was really like a Jenga game – and the Treasury pulled out the block that was holding up the rest of the system.

Back to the original topic – I notice Hacks is here hacking away at the straw men yet again. No response yet to my assertion that what we have developing here is not a Marxist takeover but a Peronist regime.

A Democratic administration and Congress will never vote to implement full socialism, because they will lose the source for their campaign cash and their own cushy post-retirement jobs. They like the system pretty much the way it is, they just want to to confiscate a little more of my money and your money to bribe more of the unproductive people to keep voting for them. This is the Peronist approach.

rockmom on February 23, 2009 at 1:23 PM

The top marginal rate will increase from 35% to 39.6% for earners over $250K, and capital gains taxes will go from 15% to 20%

And that is about like a doctor fretting about a patient’s skinned knee when the patient has multiple organ failure.

We are dead. The insane asylum (Washington) has been taken over by the patients. When America was settled, folks came here for opportunity. Why did someone hop in a covered wagon and head west with no promises from anyone – except the promise that a self reliant person had an opportunity to better himself? No one was promised free healthcare. No one was promised Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps or a free education. Now our government is going to pay your mortgage! Well, only for the idiots that bought houses they could not afford. Those that played by the rules and were self reliant get shafted. We will pay for our neighbors’ mistakes.

During a prosperous time, when government receipts exceed its expenses, nothing is wrong with programs to help the disadvantaged. BUT today we have to borrow from China to pay for these additional programs and place the burden on our children to pay the bill. No parent would stand by and sign their child into economic slavery — BUT this is what we collectively allowed our government to do.

My friends the battle has been lost. The number of citizens in this country that believe the government is the tit upon which all people can suck upon from cradle to grave now exceed the number of citizens that want to be self reliant.

HalJordan on February 23, 2009 at 1:23 PM

They’re getting what they want.

sethstorm on February 23, 2009 at 1:23 PM

Enjoy it while you can. When the producers are destroyed or move overseas it will fall down around your ears. It is simply unsustainable.

genso on February 23, 2009 at 1:24 PM

These clowns are not that monumentally stupid,,,,this is all a planned attack on our economy and way of life. Read Alinsky,,,he had it all planned out,,,,the O is his disciple and Congress is his willing follower.

retiredeagle on February 23, 2009 at 1:25 PM

The goal is to impoverish and control the middle class, and even upper middle. Obama and the select wealthy Left appear more like an oligarchy to me.
JiangxiDad on February 23, 2009 at 10:58 AM

Indeed. We need out to stop talking about Marxism here. Marxism is about truly abolishing the upper class and creating a dictatorship of the proletariat. This regime is… perfectly content to have an upper class that pays its bills and provides the funds for its perpetual campaigns.
rockmom on February 23, 2009 at 11:23 AM

These are not two different animals; these are only gradiations on the scale from less collectivism to more collectivism.

Stalin said: “Co-opt the large businesses, and tax the small businessman out of existence.” Stalin and Mao started out the same way that Hitler and Mussolini did. But it always ends up at the same place eventually.

Right now, we are in the processes of consolodating 10,000 local banks into around a dozen or so centrally-manageable blocks. For all practical purposes, the first part of Marxism is being implemented as we speak.

After a certain point (and I think the 50% of GNP line we just leapfrogged past was it), tax fraud becomes a necessity, rather than an option and for all practical purposes, it becomes illegal to own your own business. The biggest lords can continue to buy exceptions through fealty for a while, but eventually, Socialism, Communism, and yes, even “Peronism” always leads to the same place.

Once you head down the path to collectivism, there aren’t any real options; in fact, that’s the whole point of the process.

logis on February 23, 2009 at 1:27 PM

One COULD see all kinds of things. Unfortunately to get published one HAS to have evidence for their assertions.

DeathToMediaHacks on February 23, 2009 at 1:10 PM

I wish that were the case.
To get published, one needs to agree with the pre-conceived notions of those reviewing the paper. Nothing more, nothing less.

As the AGW mess, and certain Lancet papers have demonstrated, you don’t have to have a single fact on your side in order to get published.

On the flip side, if the reviewers don’t agree with your conclusion, it will not matter how much documentation you provide, your paper will be rejected.

MarkTheGreat on February 23, 2009 at 1:29 PM

Enjoy it while you can. When the producers are destroyed or move overseas it will fall down around your ears. It is simply unsustainable.

genso on February 23, 2009 at 1:24 PM

Most can’t understand that, and won’t understand it even when it happens. But others would rather take down the system with them, than live in one they couldn’t/wouldn’t flourish in. Many are simple opportunists, riding a wave for as long as it lasts. Others, like Obama and other leftist pols are generally destroyers–with race foremost in their thoughts.

JiangxiDad on February 23, 2009 at 1:29 PM

Good news folks, the potato famine is over, we can now return to Ireland where the rivers flow with Guinness.

Better alternative to taxation without representation.

workingforpigs on February 23, 2009 at 1:31 PM

workingforpigs on February 23, 2009 at 1:31 PM

No, it’s about to start when all the work gets sent to slave labor nations like China and India.

sethstorm on February 23, 2009 at 1:34 PM

tax fraud becomes a necessity…

Once you head down the path to collectivism, there aren’t any real options; in fact, that’s the whole point of the process.

logis on February 23, 2009 at 1:27 PM

Past a certain point it’s not tax fraud, but fraudulent taxes.

btw, not to put you on the spot, but do you have a plan, besides going off the cliff we’re being led to?

JiangxiDad on February 23, 2009 at 1:34 PM

JiangxiDad on February 23, 2009 at 1:29 PM

I just saw an article on Xinhau that fewer multinationals are leaving China. I think you will see more and more moving to China and other more business-friendly regions. I know I will.

genso on February 23, 2009 at 1:34 PM

Good news folks, the potato famine is over, we can now return to Ireland where the rivers flow with Guinness.

Better alternative to taxation without representation.

workingforpigs on February 23, 2009 at 1:31 PM

I’m right behind you!

Kevin in Washington State on February 23, 2009 at 1:34 PM

workingforpigs on February 23, 2009 at 1:31 PM

Anyone have an data on U.S. alcohol/spirits sales since the inauguration?

Guess I picked the wrong time to stop drinking.

coldwarrior on February 23, 2009 at 1:35 PM

sorry…Xinhua

genso on February 23, 2009 at 1:36 PM

How many footnotes are in Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address?

jeff_from_mpls on February 23, 2009 at 1:17 PM

Ha! Will DTMH demand that O-Bam-Bam’s State of the Union Address include footnotes?

Buy Danish on February 23, 2009 at 1:37 PM

President Obama is putting the finishing touches on an ambitious first budget that seeks to cut the federal deficit in half over the next four years, primarily by raising taxes on businesses and the wealthy and by slashing spending on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, administration officials said.

In other words, he’s going to attempt to screw the military because he, like all left wing douchebags, hates the military and all it stands for.

TrickyDick on February 23, 2009 at 1:37 PM

genso on February 23, 2009 at 1:34 PM

I’ll try do what is best for my kids, after I figure out what that is.

JiangxiDad on February 23, 2009 at 1:37 PM

Buy Danish on February 23, 2009 at 1:37 PM

My fervent hope is that we get through this, 1426 days to go, and Obama will be a minor footnote in our history.

coldwarrior on February 23, 2009 at 1:39 PM

Did somebody say Guinness??????

retiredeagle on February 23, 2009 at 1:39 PM

I’ll try do what is best for my kids, after I figure out what that is.

JiangxiDad on February 23, 2009 at 1:37 PM

I have an older mother to look out for. She is becoming more and more open to the idea of leaving, something I would have done on my own two years ago if not for her.

genso on February 23, 2009 at 1:40 PM

Still clinging to the same ole failed ideology.

The RNC is looking for new ideas.

Here is a hint.

Try helping all Americans instead of just the wealthy.

That ideology created a global depression.

getalife on February 23, 2009 at 1:44 PM

genso on February 23, 2009 at 1:40 PM

Ah, that presents a problem for me. I thought moving to SC or someplace similar was a temporary solution. I’ve been bugging my wife to check out Texas for the same reason. Just today she said we ought to go in April and see for ourselves (I was in Dallas once, 20 years ago, and we’ve lived in CO and CA.)

Rubs head.

JiangxiDad on February 23, 2009 at 1:44 PM

I’ll read it anyway since I happen to know something about Black Power and, based on the title alone, doubt this guy does.

DeathToMediaHacks on February 23, 2009 at 1:04 PM

Why is that? Why is it everyone has to be constantly reminded of how separate blacks are?
I know bcs I’m white I am assumed to not understand what black power really is.

But I am a woman, & I do understand ‘male power’.
I can stand up to that now. So it’s a moot point. I can fight it.
There are laws & avenues in which I may plead a case.
So why is it necessary any longer to focus on the color of one’s skin & what color the people in ‘power’ are?
Your statement earlier on voting for Obama as a + role model for young black men is a sorry thing.
I would think a good role model for a young black man would be someone who says what they mean & does not use elitist attitudes to convey a message.
I would also think that you would envision a good role model for black men to be someone who does support the genocide of their own race-as in abortion.
I would also think that this tired idea of social justice Obama supports would be recognized by now in the black community as just another way to control them.
The minority communities in this country are insulted every time programs like welfare & affirmative action are employed bcs it communicates how they cannot compete otherwise.
genso has it right-

We are now being led by theorists who have no practical knowledge of things.
Going to school & learning about stuff will never make you a real expert in how it actually happens.
I don’t need to get an A in a course to be able to fully implement in real life.
In fact, it has been my experience to note that those who theorize & do not live reality (by implementing their theories in REAL life situations) usually live in high academia where they can flourish. The private sector soon finds out their ‘theories’ are not practical.

Badger40 on February 23, 2009 at 1:45 PM

Awww… Alinsky must be so proud of little hussein, his greatest student.

ErinF on February 23, 2009 at 1:46 PM

JiangxiDad on February 23, 2009 at 1:44 PM

Yes…we had this conversation about SC last week. However, this newest tax increase makes me think that we are at a tipping point and may not be able to recover politically. SC is a good state but I’m not sure there is anyplace to hide to escape the Federal government anymore. I’m not sure, short of leaving the union, that any state will be able to resist the fed.

genso on February 23, 2009 at 1:49 PM

Acting President Obama wants communism for America.

tarpon on February 23, 2009 at 1:49 PM

I have an older mother to look out for.

genso on February 23, 2009 at 1:40 PM

Luckily for me, both my own mother, and my mother-in-law, chose comrade Obama to watch out for them. Silver linings?

JiangxiDad on February 23, 2009 at 1:51 PM

Luckily for me, both my own mother, and my mother-in-law, chose comrade Obama to watch out for them. Silver linings?

JiangxiDad on February 23, 2009 at 1:51 PM

I’ll stay through thick or thin to protect my mother if she won’t leave. I’m happy she thinks the way she does. Its one less thing to have to worry about.

genso on February 23, 2009 at 1:53 PM

SC is a good state but I’m not sure there is anyplace to hide to escape the Federal government anymore. I’m not sure, short of leaving the union, that any state will be able to resist the fed.

genso on February 23, 2009 at 1:49 PM

Yes, I know. You’re right. The feds prop up the failing states, and tax you to pay for it. I understand what you mean. Don’t forget that you do have the advantages of a like-minded community, and community defense. That’s still a large advantage over other states I think if it comes to having to fight for your country.

JiangxiDad on February 23, 2009 at 1:53 PM

I have an older mother to look out for. She is becoming more and more open to the idea of leaving, something I would have done on my own two years ago if not for her.

genso on February 23, 2009 at 1:40 PM

I did too till she passed away last November the day before the election at the tender age of 80. She doesn’t have to see what has happened to America and I’m grateful for that.

Portugal or Costa Rica anyone?

kooziegirl on February 23, 2009 at 1:53 PM

Its one less thing to have to worry about.

genso on February 23, 2009 at 1:53 PM

yep. Sucks to have both the country and the family turn against you. But right beats sucks, always does.

JiangxiDad on February 23, 2009 at 1:55 PM

Oh, happy day! While I thought he was nothing but a charlatan, according to Newsweek, Barack Obama is the Psychotherapist-in-Chief.

Buy Danish on February 23, 2009 at 1:55 PM

Portugal or Costa Rica anyone?

kooziegirl on February 23, 2009 at 1:53 PM

Seriously? Neither, and have been to both, and both are beautiful. But so is CA. Little opportunity in either, unless you’re contemplating retirement. But how about a place that holds out promise to future generations? That’s what I want.

JiangxiDad on February 23, 2009 at 1:57 PM

The feds prop up the failing states, and tax you to pay for it.
JiangxiDad on February 23, 2009 at 1:53 PM

I think the feds are the ultimate reason for failing states.
States have taken the fed govt whore $$ & end up paying through the nose for it in lost governance bcs of the fed’s tyrannical imposing rules.
Like I said on the Jindal thread-
Title $$ for schools is one reason why schools waste so much $$.
They have to follow often inefficient rules-one size fits all.
School boards need to quit accepting this $$ & learn how to get along without it.
They’d be much better off.

Badger40 on February 23, 2009 at 1:57 PM

JiangxiDad on February 23, 2009 at 1:53 PM

How about a mass exodus to a nice quiet place in the Huangshan mtns?

genso on February 23, 2009 at 1:58 PM

Portugal or Costa Rica anyone?

kooziegirl on February 23, 2009 at 1:53 PM

I don’t want to be mean here, but if you want to flee, go for it.
Meanwhile, I will stay & fight to the bitter end so you can come back & enjoy the freedom folks like this didn’t want to stay around & protect in the 1st place.

Badger40 on February 23, 2009 at 1:59 PM

genso on February 23, 2009 at 1:58 PM

Not you too?!

Badger40 on February 23, 2009 at 1:59 PM

Badger40 on February 23, 2009 at 1:57 PM

Yup. They dangle the money, but the strings have become onerous. We’re rebelling in small ways everyday now. Put together one day, a historian will be able to date the whole thing.

JiangxiDad on February 23, 2009 at 2:00 PM

Not you too?!

Badger40 on February 23, 2009 at 1:59 PM

Do you want to go?

genso on February 23, 2009 at 2:00 PM

Meanwhile, I will stay & fight to the bitter end so you can come back & enjoy the freedom folks like this didn’t want to stay around & protect in the 1st place.

Badger40 on February 23, 2009 at 1:59 PM

I missed this post. Freedom is American but when America does not reflect freedom, then I will take those values with me. I will fight beside anyone who will actually fight, but I don’t see politics as a viable vehicle for change.

genso on February 23, 2009 at 2:03 PM

Badger40 on February 23, 2009 at 1:59 PM

Understood. Flee or fight.

Would you have fled W. Europe in the past 40 years or so as the gradual socialism fell, or gradually adjusted?

It’s worth fighting for for sure. Many blue states have fallen already. You may not feel that where you are, but people like me must move sooner or later. It’s begun.

JiangxiDad on February 23, 2009 at 2:04 PM

2pm EST DJI -2.06%

Shocked…utterly shocked!!!

:O Hold on to your hats.

Ejasz on February 23, 2009 at 2:07 PM

Seriously? Neither, and have been to both, and both are beautiful. But so is CA. Little opportunity in either, unless you’re contemplating retirement. But how about a place that holds out promise to future generations? That’s what I want.

JiangxiDad on February 23, 2009 at 1:57 PM

Too true there is little oppty in either CR or Portugal. Visited Portugal briefly. I’m concerned about the future for our kids too. Just considering options. As others have said, I don’t want to be here whe/if the doors are slammed shut. Not contemplating retirement any time soon, that’s certain. And CA IS beautiful, as are so many places all over our incredible nation.

kooziegirl on February 23, 2009 at 2:07 PM

Hey! I want to know how come I wasn’t invited to Prez. Obama’s “Fiscal Spending Seminar” in the White House today. I am missing out on his advice about how to spend our money wisely.
He gave his speech to the attendees, and reminded them all “to spend only what they have” before sending them off to their study groups!

Susanboo on February 23, 2009 at 2:10 PM

Susanboo on February 23, 2009 at 2:10 PM

Just send it all to the One, he’ll spend it for you.

genso on February 23, 2009 at 2:11 PM

So many to reply to-
Here is the blanket reply-
I don’t want to leave my beloved USA but I would move to a different state if I had to.
If I had lived in W Europe during hard times back then, I probably would have died there bcs I would not have been able to shut my mouth from speaking out against the unspeakable acts there that occurred.
And genso I understand the defeatist view of politics not being a viable vehicle for change anymore, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t other avenues to pursue.
In the end, our political system is the only viable vehicle for change in the world right now.
It is still better than anything else we have right now.
And it can still work.
That is why I vote & volunteer when I can & teach my students critical thinking skills & debate those who have given up into trying to fight instead for their country in whatever way they can.
Giving up should not be an option.
Our patriots did not give up in that swirling, uncertain, & violent political & physical climate the Revolution was fought during.

Badger40 on February 23, 2009 at 2:14 PM

I don’t want to be mean here, but if you want to flee, go for it.
Meanwhile, I will stay & fight to the bitter end so you can come back & enjoy the freedom folks like this didn’t want to stay around & protect in the 1st place.

Badger40 on February 23, 2009 at 1:59 PM

Understood.

Not being mean either, just pissed, but I’ve been “fighting” this Leftist crap for nearly 2 decades, following the rules, doing what good little conservatives do – saluting the processes and rules for crying out loud, writing emails, visiting and calling representatives and senators, joining the “right” groups to add another voice to their protests.

And just where the hell has it gotten us?

If you think for a nanosecond that doing the same thing time after time will EVER produce different results, get a padded room.

kooziegirl on February 23, 2009 at 2:14 PM

And genso I understand the defeatist view of politics not being a viable vehicle for change anymore, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t other avenues to pursue.

Badger40 on February 23, 2009 at 2:14 PM

Lay out the options for me. As for our patriots, the fought for real. Attending meeting and volunteering isn’t going to get it done without a mass movement. Again, I will fight beside anyone if its a real fight, but as kooziegirl said, playing the political game at this point is pointless.

genso on February 23, 2009 at 2:18 PM

Lay out the options for me. As for our patriots, the fought for real. Attending meeting and volunteering isn’t going to get it done without a mass movement. Again, I will fight beside anyone if its a real fight, but as kooziegirl said, playing the political game at this point is pointless.

genso on February 23, 2009 at 2:18 PM

Thank God somebody else sees it. Genso I will fight too, forgive me I’m tired of doing the same thing over and over ad infinitum and yet, here we are, 2009, in a fight for our nations very existence. I don’t understand why people choose not to see the reality of our situation. It makes me so sad and outraged I could throw up.

Badger Please DO lay out the options.

kooziegirl on February 23, 2009 at 2:25 PM

If you think for a nanosecond that doing the same thing time after time will EVER produce different results, get a padded room.

kooziegirl on February 23, 2009 at 2:14 PM

I don’t. So don’t vote for the same morons. Never give up.
Be a leader yourself if you can.

playing the political game at this point is pointless.

genso on February 23, 2009 at 2:18 PM

Then change the political game. Change comes about with optimists-not pessimists.
I know it’s easy to become a pessimist. I am guilty of it on occasion.
But it is not a life mantra for me.
And changing the game rules may not be easy, but if ENOUGH people actually do something about ti, or attempt to, something will eventually happen.
I am not ruling out physical insurrection.
But I can certainly play politics AND physically fight.
I have the gun cabinet to back this up.

Badger40 on February 23, 2009 at 2:25 PM

BTW- Maybe my options are not ‘specific’ enough for you.
Where you lives & what your available resources are makes a difference in the difference you can actually make.
But all of us are capable of doing more than we actually do.
Sometimes it is little things-
like going to a public meeting on a govt issue & making your opinion known. You are not always ignored.
You CAN make a difference in these small ways.

Badger40 on February 23, 2009 at 2:27 PM

I know it’s easy to become a pessimist. I am guilty of it on occasion.
But it is not a life mantra for me.
And changing the game rules may not be easy, but if ENOUGH people actually do something about ti, or attempt to, something will eventually happen.
I am not ruling out physical insurrection.
But I can certainly play politics AND physically fight.
I have the gun cabinet to back this up.

Badger40 on February 23, 2009 at 2:25 PM

I’m not a pessimist at all. Just the opposite…I’m often too optimistic. But, I’m also a realist. That part tells me that when my safety and means are threatened by agendas that I don’t agree with then I have to be wise. Going along isn’t an option because it will only lead to the decay of my freedoms and safety. I’m all for fighting, literally fighting for the principles I have, but I have no thoughts about subjecting my family to a Ruby Ridge type fight. Look at the political landscape. This stimulus really stacks the deck against us and the rules of politics is now set by the left. Why would I want to play a game I can’t win?

genso on February 23, 2009 at 2:32 PM

Sometimes it is little things-
like going to a public meeting on a govt issue & making your opinion known. You are not always ignored.
You CAN make a difference in these small ways.

Badger40 on February 23, 2009 at 2:27 PM

I live in as solid a red state as there is. But even our Senator, DeMint, has said this weekend that the situation has advanced too far for government to alter its ways. Too much graft and corruption.

genso on February 23, 2009 at 2:36 PM

BTW- Maybe my options are not ’specific’ enough for you.
Where you lives & what your available resources are makes a difference in the difference you can actually make.
But all of us are capable of doing more than we actually do.
Sometimes it is little things-
like going to a public meeting on a govt issue & making your opinion known. You are not always ignored.
You CAN make a difference in these small ways.

Badger40 on February 23, 2009 at 2:27 PM

On a better, less stressful day, I will acknowledge that you are correct. But my gut tells me that unless we do something that attracts the prolonged attention of our fellow Americans we’ll never get any traction. We need 1,000,000 Rick Santelli’s, hell I’d settle for 1,000 Rick Santelli’s.

As a footnote to that, we have no idea how the Left is planning to destroy this man, but we can be certain they will. Just look at what they did to Joe, Sarah Palin, and so many more. For all we know, Santelli’s family may be targeted too.

Leftists are dangerous powerful people, they are not just political enemies.

kooziegirl on February 23, 2009 at 2:36 PM

but I’ve been “fighting” this Leftist crap for nearly 2 decades, following the rules, doing what good little conservatives do
kooziegirl on February 23, 2009 at 2:14 PM

Frustrating isn’t it? What scares me is all these pundits who say the Country is turning more liberal, and that Conservatism is dead. I do not believe that! I think the mostly liberal media has just gotten so out of control and with all these leftist groups that sprung up after “Campaign Finance” reform, (ie: move on.org), the Country has been inundated. This along with so many (Dems & Repubs), who have gotten so sick of it that they have tuned out and are just flat out uninformed despite being intelligent, hard working members of society. Look at the interviews that John Ziegler did after the Presidential election. Yes, he was interviewing Obama voters, but some of them seemed like half-way intelligent people, who opening admitted, they had not been listening to the media, then others had heard nothing but positives about Obama, and negatives about McCain. I say we have to do something about our media bias, don’t know how or what, just a thought. Of course it’s even worse with these Democrat dweebs talking about the Fairness Doctrine being re-instated.

Susanboo on February 23, 2009 at 2:37 PM

genso on February 23, 2009 at 2:32 PM

Being a realist doesn’t mean giving up.
Ruby Ridge is a poor example-Waco is better.
And it will probably have to happen someday.
If you are not willing to sacrifice your life, or the lives of your loved ones for the future freedom of your countrymen, who is?
And I’m not going along with any of this.
I do what I can.
And yes it may mean we lose-but who even won anything with this ‘realist’ approach you’re suggesting?
If my kids want to stand along beside me & shoot the G-men who are coming to take my home or my guns away for no reason, then I will let them.
We are too squeamish these days in our notion about what freedom should cost.
Freedom may cost you being ostracized from your community.
It may cost you govt confiscation of your guns or vehicle or maybe home to eminent domain.
But you still have to use the system to fight.
And you still can is all I’m saying.
Conservatives who stay home & protest ‘vote’ are part of this country’s apathy problem.(not suggesting you are part of this bloc)

Badger40 on February 23, 2009 at 2:40 PM

Badger40 on February 23, 2009 at 2:40 PM

I hear you and I’m still here doing what I can. The unwise allow themselves to be backed into a corner, however. If you have no plan B then you should start thinking about it.

genso on February 23, 2009 at 2:45 PM

The people climbing the mountain will be pushed back…many business men and women enter into this $25,000 red zone, sometimes for just a couple of years, and often after many years of hard work. They will get hammered and punished.
I Obama truly wanted to “re-distribute” he would take a look at the worth of an individual and tax them every year on that.
The problem is that would tax Hollywood, it would tax the fat cats that support him. Those fat cats already have their system in place to pay very little taxes.
Buffet paid less taxes then his secretary…so who suffers the most under taxes? The middle class. The lower class pays no taxes, and the “upper class” pays very little, it is the middle to upper middle that takes the hit.

right2bright on February 23, 2009 at 2:51 PM

Arthur Blank….Warren Buffett….Barry Diller….Michael Eisner….David Geffen….Charles Gifford….Jeffrey Katzenberg….Norman Lear….Penny Pritzker….Goerge Soros….Steven Spielberg….Steve Tisch….and, Oprah Winfrey…..Do you think these billionaires pay there “fair share” of taxes?

right2bright on February 23, 2009 at 2:52 PM

I can’t even say much around friends and family, and not at all in public, as I live in a very blue city in a fairly red state. I got told the other day after voicing my opinion in front of some of them, that “I was bitter”, and all I did was state the truth about our Congress and Obama! This coming from people who voted for McCain! My computer and e-mail letters are the only way I can help our cause, without causing myself and my family to be ostricized. If it was just me, I could do more, but I have a child, and can’t afford to have harm come to her, and sure can’t afford to be a single mom right now!! This whole situation is frustrating for all of us, but we have to do something!

Susanboo on February 23, 2009 at 2:55 PM

right2bright on February 23, 2009 at 2:51 PM

If there is one bright spot in this whole thing its that it brings down the veil that has hidden the corruption of our system of governance.

genso on February 23, 2009 at 2:56 PM

Frustrating isn’t it? What scares me is all these pundits who say the Country is turning more liberal, and that Conservatism is dead. I do not believe that! I think the mostly liberal media has just gotten so out of control and with all these leftist groups that sprung up after “Campaign Finance” reform, (ie: move on.org), the Country has been inundated. This along with so many (Dems & Repubs), who have gotten so sick of it that they have tuned out and are just flat out uninformed despite being intelligent, hard working members of society.

It IS frustrating, it’s BEYOND frustrating sometimes. I have family members who “just don’t want to talk about it anymore” and I think that attitude comes from a feeling of powerlessness and maybe some cynicism. The utter reluctance to see what is in front of our faces is stunning. It seems like they are fleeing from reality because reality is so overwhelming.

I say we have to do something about our media bias, don’t know how or what, just a thought. Of course it’s even worse with these Democrat dweebs talking about the Fairness Doctrine being re-instated.

Susanboo on February 23, 2009 at 2:37 PM

Susanboo, I agree, but I don’t know what can be effective against them. I do know that we need to quit using our energies and intellect to effing argue with them. That makes no sense to me, what a futile effort.

Leftists pretend to want to “debate” the issues as if there’s a chance in hell they could be persuaded by reason and logic, or truth. It isn’t going to happen and everytime we allow ourselves to be sucked into another debate with one, we deplete our energies for the real work of turning this around.

I keep thinking of something I read recently in one of David Horowitz’s books – a phrase that goes something like “accomplishing goals…by any means necessary.” That is the Left’s mantra.

We can’t actually believe we can fight a war in which the other side will use ‘any means necessary’ by voting, emailing, writing our representatives. How absurd. It is ludicrous.

Susanboo, if you decide what to do about the media, please let me know.

kooziegirl on February 23, 2009 at 2:59 PM

The market is on track to close at an 11 year low. Talk about your lost decade.

genso on February 23, 2009 at 3:03 PM

Who is John Galt?

sannhet on February 23, 2009 at 3:04 PM

Oops, gotta correct myself! Obama’s seminar was called a “Fiscal Responsibility Summit”. Just wanted to clarify that, LOL!
What a showboater this man is!!

Susanboo on February 23, 2009 at 3:19 PM

Words.
Black Power.
Burn, baby, burn.
Typical white bigot.
Nation of cowards.
PUNISHMENT, Punishment, punishment.
Just Words.

I remember when prostituting the Lincoln bedroom was considered the ultimate outrage from the [Clinton] White House.

Deadbeat Obanomics Egyptian Sale

BTW, Muammar al-Qadhafi speech about Obama has been removed from the internet, “no longer available.” Now elected, Barry can no longer tolerate the endorsement. Regardless, Qadhafi tagged Obama weaver of whole cloth and anyone who believes a word Obama says a fool.

[The] people’s collective need for freedom produced a leader who was born to serve the masses. Minister Farrakhan said that when a people is oppressed the need for freedom produces a longing which in turn produces a leader.

“The oppressor is always watching for that leader,” Louis Farrakhan explained, “…they know that the people will never be free until they produce a leader with the vision to create the revolution and see it through to its ultimate end.” –March 15th, 1986

maverick muse on February 23, 2009 at 3:39 PM

Susanboo, if you decide what to do about the media, please let me know.

kooziegirl on February 23, 2009 at 2:59 PM

At the risk of offending some people I will say this; I am a Christian, and I just don’t believe this country is going to go the way of the Roman Empire, as I have heard some people on this site say. But by the same token, God is not going to save our Country for us, I believe he will enable us to have the courage and the faith to stand up for ourselves and the laws that our Founders laid down for America. If a few old British guys can fight the queen and her empire in England 233 years ago, for freedom they had not really yet experienced, then I know we can fight Pelosi, Reid, Obama and the rest of these nutshells in Congress.

Unlike “The One’s hope and change”, our faith is based on something good, concrete, and life confirming, that has made this world a better, safer place to live in. I know the Dems have really put some roadblocks in our way through all this spending and liberalism, but in my lifetime I have never seen Conservatives this outraged.

I was only a teenager during Carter’s admin., but I voted for Reagan in my first Presidential election, and remember how this Country felt when those hostages came home from Iran after he had been elected. People don’t forget stuff like that, and I really think America wants to feel that way again. Obama is like a sugar high, it does not last. He is too shallow, too pompous, and some of our allies in the world are already seeing through him.

If we can be patient, and fight the good fight by standing up to him and the Dems, God willing, he will do himself in. Hopefully in the meantime, he or crazy terrorists won’t do so much damage that it takes us 20 years or more to recover from it. God willing.

Back to your original comment about our taking on the media; One of these days, they are going to get their comeuppance, and then they will turn on “The One” they placed so much hope and change in.

Susanboo on February 23, 2009 at 3:54 PM

Good thing we’ll have government-doled health care to pay for our injuries from the terrorist attacks which will surely come if we leave Afghanistan to the pits.

evergreen on February 23, 2009 at 4:01 PM

The people climbing the mountain will be pushed back…many business men and women enter into this $25,000 red zone, sometimes for just a couple of years, and often after many years of hard work. They will get hammered and punished.
I Obama truly wanted to “re-distribute” he would take a look at the worth of an individual and tax them every year on that.
The problem is that would tax Hollywood, it would tax the fat cats that support him. Those fat cats already have their system in place to pay very little taxes.
Buffet paid less taxes then his secretary…so who suffers the most under taxes? The middle class. The lower class pays no taxes, and the “upper class” pays very little, it is the middle to upper middle that takes the hit.

right2bright on February 23, 2009 at 2:51 PM

The sweet spot for tax revenue is the class of people who have money to take, but not enough money and flexibility to escape the system. You can rest assured that Sean Penn’s accountants will deftly move his income offshore to escape any sort of draconian tax hike.

The basic calculation behind Obamanomics is that by the time the upper-middle-class of the future has to get hit with the gigantic taxes to pay for all this pork spending, the spending programs will be as deeply hardwired into the culture as the NEA or Department of Education, complete with constituencies that have enjoyed the benefits for years.

There would be very little public enthusiasm to suffer big tax hikes now, in exchange for billions given to ACORN or spent on condoms; even as silly as most of the junk in the Porkulus bill was, the public swallowed it because they weren’t told they have to pay for it now. A generation yet to be born, or at least yet to vote, will be presented with the bill, and told they are immoral if they question their obligation to pay for it. It’s one thing to ask taxpayers in a down economy to cough up $32 billion for condom distribution; it’s quite another to tell the taxpayers of 2014 they’re selfish for wanting to end the vital condom distribution program that so many low-income teens rely upon for safe sex, and which top experts all agree has been invaluable for keeping the horrendous teen pregnancy rate from getting worse at an even more shocking rate.

I think Obama may have miscalculated on the timing. A frail, overstretched economy like this has no way to deal with unforeseen crises. What will an economy groaning under trillions of dollars in deficit spending do in response to a downturn in the bond market, a crisis in energy supply, or a terrorist attack? I have a feeling these bills are coming due a lot sooner than the Obamabots think, especially since they have no grasp of dynamic analysis…

Doctor Zero on February 23, 2009 at 4:07 PM

Look at the stock market. How many more months before Obama’s on a chopper heading off to Camp David shaking his jowls saying i am not a crook. Better get that labradoodle ready for the cameras.

Angry Dumbo on February 23, 2009 at 4:08 PM

Oh Bullwinkle, that trick never works.

darwin-t on February 23, 2009 at 4:11 PM

Sure, why not, just borrow from the Chinese right? After all we have them under our thumb right? The Chinese are just an extension of our own government now since we’re all happy communists.

I hope you left wing pukes are proud of what you’ve voted in.

Spiritk9 on February 23, 2009 at 4:25 PM

How much capital gains tax does he hope to collect when the DOW lowers to 3000 due to his FDR like agenda?

Multibucket on February 23, 2009 at 4:35 PM

We are seeing what the world would look like if George Soros was behind the scenes pulling the strings………..

……….. happy?

Seven Percent Solution on February 23, 2009 at 4:40 PM

Paging Ron Paul. I think Paul was treated horribly by his fellow Republicans during the debates last year. I am sorry for not speaking up sooner. We can disagree on the subject of foreign policy, but Rep. Paul’s heart beats as an honest conservative who has his principles driving his pursuits, not the other way around. Please accept my apology Dr. Paul.

Angry Dumbo on February 23, 2009 at 4:40 PM

If a few old British guys can fight the queen and her empire in England 233 years ago,

1: We’re nothing like they were then. Today, we’re only too happy to sit back and play our Xboxes. How many people in America are so spoiled that they wouldn’t even dream of going camping in anything less than a Winnebago? How many whine like babies when the slightest word, action or look offends them?

2: Correct me if I’m wrong, but they had a king back then.

Ryan Gandy on February 23, 2009 at 4:47 PM

Who is John Galt?

sannhet on February 23, 2009 at 3:04 PM

to Ayn what Jessus was to Paul.

Count to 10 on February 23, 2009 at 4:54 PM

I kind of like the way that seth and get drop inane, nonsensical comments, and nobody pays attention.

Count to 10 on February 23, 2009 at 4:55 PM

Government schools lays the ground work for raising an entire generation (or two) with no intellectual curiosity to pursue the truth.

The media is so biased that it cannot even bring itself to highlight the utter irony of hosting a “Fiscal Responsibility Summit” after signing a $1 trillion spending spree, let alone criticize the fiascos of our Dear Leader’s first weeks in office.

The entitlement era has produced a majority of voters who believe that they should get their fair share from your pocket.

This country is ripe for full blown class warfare. It is already Beta versus Alphas, and it will get worse since the 0 administration wants to feed the anger.

DrStock on February 23, 2009 at 4:58 PM

Look at the stock market. How many more months before Obama’s on a chopper heading off to Camp David shaking his jowls saying i am not a crook. Better get that labradoodle ready for the cameras.
Angry Dumbo on February 23, 2009 at 4:08 PM

Pfffft, Ogabe will never accept blame for anything. If the markets continue to crumble, he will find a way to blame everyone but himself, and legions of bug-eyed supporters will surround the White House to keep their lord safe.

If a million armed people take to the streets in a show of average-citizen resolve, then something might be done.

Bishop on February 23, 2009 at 5:04 PM

I just saw an article on Xinhau that fewer multinationals are leaving China. I think you will see more and more moving to China and other more business-friendly regions. I know I will.

genso on February 23, 2009 at 1:34 PM

China, the wonderful Third World country that has its own Mugabe – Hu Jintao.

Business friendly in China is totalitarian in civilized countries like the United States.

sethstorm on February 23, 2009 at 5:06 PM

Who is John Galt?

sannhet on February 23, 2009 at 3:04 PM

The salient question is “Where is John Galt when we really need him?”

He’s the protagonist of Ayn Rand’s 800 page novel Atlas Shrugged. Published in 1957, it now seems as if Ms. Rand must used a time machine to write it. That’s because it’s a spot-on analysis of this country’s miseries today.

Though it would make a wonderful movie, Hollywoodites, if given the choice, would undoubtably prefer having electric cattle prods jammed up their butts, rather than filming it.

Dr. Charles G. Waugh on February 23, 2009 at 5:07 PM

Basically, we’re going to get a replay of failed liberal economic policies in the next two years — nothing we haven’t seen before, but nothing that worked before, either. It’s the kind of populist nonsense on which Obama got elected, but still far milder than some of the lunatic economic policies we saw during the 1970s.

Which is why the stock market is voting “no confidence” each and every day. The minute the filthy liar opens his mouth, everybody’s portfolio loses value. The filthy liar and his equally corrupt party are hell bent on destroying the American economy with their Soviet-style visions of central control of every aspect of private life.

Something needs to be done but, God help me, I don’t know what. The filthy liar won because too many so-called Republicans (traitors actually) willing opted to support a candidate that would have been just as much a trainwreck as the filthy liar. Those of us calling for fiscal responsiblity back during the primaries were marginalized to the point that the wrong politicians were sent to DC.

In short their needs to be a Prop 13 style tax revolt as honset people stand up and object to all the way the filthy liar and his ilk are rewarding bad behavior. Why should I pay my taxes, live within my means, add to society when those are the behavoirs that are being punished by the filthy liar, Democrats, and rat bastard traitors like Arlen Specter and Susan Collins.

highhopes on February 23, 2009 at 5:07 PM

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