Quotes of the day

posted at 10:00 pm on February 21, 2009 by Allahpundit

“The bus ads suggest a utilitarian reason for skepticism: you’ll enjoy life more. The only touchstone that I can possibly imagine for deciding whether or not to adopt any particular belief is its truth, in this case: Does the evidence of human experience support the claim that we are attended to by a loving, personal God? Even if the conclusion that we have no ‘Friend’ in the sky leads inevitably to melancholy or dissatisfaction, it is better to live unhappily in truth than happily in delusion, in my view. (As I have written before, however, I am puzzled by the claim that life would be meaningless without God. Schubert wrote some 600 songs, nearly every one of them a gem of lethal beauty and exquisiteness. You want something more?)”

*
“I will donate $10,000 to him, or give it to any children’s charity he names. All I ask is that he goes into a studio and gives me 20 minutes on why there is no God and why evolution is scientific. Then I will give 20 minutes on how we can know God exists and why evolution is nothing more than an unsubstantiated and unscientific fairy tale for grownups. Then we both will have 10 minutes to respond.”

*
“Brain scanning has indeed shown particular bits of the brain lighting up with activity when people pray, look at pictures of the Virgin Mary or recollect intense religious experiences. Richard Harries said: ‘It would not be surprising if God had created us with a physical facility for belief.’…

When we understand how our brains generate religious ideas, and what the Darwinian adaptive value of such brain processes is, what will be left for religion?”

*
“The truth is, however, that if you go to South America, you will find a huge number of conversions to Protestant Christianity. If you go to Korea, you will find Christian churches with 100,000 members. If you go to China, you will find 100 million Christians. And if you go to Africa, you’ll find that countries whose populations were only five percent Christian 100 years ago are now 50 percent Christian. These trends have not gone unnoticed by historians, who are startled by them and have attempted to explain them away, and they are the empirical basis for my claim that God is doing very well in this world. What’s important to understand is that the New Atheism is not a triumphant cry of success, but rather a bitter reaction to the success of religion.”

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and watching them tell themselves how ‘rational’ they are, and how ’sophisticated’ they are because they believe what they do is laughable…pure hubris.

they cannot see that their belief in evolution is nothing more than faith. all they do is:

1) personify evolution
2) wave the magic wand of time

right4life on February 22, 2009 at 7:14 PM

True. It they would just admit that their whole religion of evolution is based on magic then they might be able to better understand the truth of creation.

Ars Moriendi on February 22, 2009 at 7:19 PM

Here is an interesting fact for you evolution-guys. Did you know that there are no two-celled animals? In fact there are no three-celled animals either.

In fact, there are no 4 or 5 celled animals either! And all known forms of life with 6–20 cells are parasites. That means they must have a complex animal as a host to provide functions such as respiration and digestion.

Since there are no known self sustaining organisms in the 2 to twenty range, that means evolution had to jump from single celled organisms to organisms with more than twenty cells.

If macro-evolution happened, we should see transitional self sustaining organisms in the 2 to 20 cell range, but there are none. That’s another huge gap in transitional forms beside the fact that there are no transition fossils between known kinds.

No transitionals means no evolution and screams CREATION !!

Maxx on February 22, 2009 at 7:19 PM

YESSS!! Lucifer puffs them up full of pride for believing obvious nonsense! Such is the genius of pure evil! You will join them soon enough! Say, what time do you usually fall asleep, I want to know when master is doing his work.

justfinethanks on February 22, 2009 at 7:18 PM

why don’t you ask your dark lord the answer to the following:

please give the exact sequence of mutations, in order, that led to an eye…

since you darwiniacs obviously don’t have the answers…

right4life on February 22, 2009 at 7:23 PM

True. It they would just admit that their whole religion of evolution is based on magic then they might be able to better understand the truth of creation.

Ars Moriendi on February 22, 2009 at 7:19 PM

they should try reading romans 1…it describes them perfectly…

right4life on February 22, 2009 at 7:24 PM

No transitionals means no evolution and screams CREATION !!

Yeah, you would think that would be enough to disprove the ridiculous fairytale of evolution, but even if they could find a transitional (which they can’t cause they don’t exist) that wouldn’t prove evolution because it could just be another of God’s species. So either way Dawiniacs lose, you would think they could understand that.

Ars Moriendi on February 22, 2009 at 7:25 PM

why don’t you ask your dark lord the answer to the following:

please give the exact sequence of mutations, in order, that led to an eye…

CURSES! Don’t let people know that evolution is totally bankrupt!! The only way to keep it going is by appealing to authority! Try this line: “If you don’t believe in evolution, you’re stupid.” The dark lord told me that one himself, and it works on most people all of the time. My master will own you and HE WILL be the victor in the battle in the end of days.

justfinethanks on February 22, 2009 at 7:28 PM

! Don’t let people know that evolution is totally bankrupt!!
justfinethanks on February 22, 2009 at 7:28 PM

don’t worry, its more than obvious, and your posts just confirm it!!

thanks!

right4life on February 22, 2009 at 7:29 PM

HE WILL be the victor in the battle in the end of days.

justfinethanks on February 22, 2009 at 7:28 PM

btw: you and him are in for an ugly surprise…

right4life on February 22, 2009 at 7:30 PM

CURSES! Don’t let people know that evolution is totally bankrupt!! The only way to keep it going is by appealing to authority! Try this line: “If you don’t believe in evolution, you’re stupid.” The dark lord told me that one himself, and it works on most people all of the time. My master will own you and HE WILL be the victor in the battle in the end of days.

justfinethanks on February 22, 2009 at 7:28 PM

Wait a minute! I totally believe you are a follower of Satan and everything, but the dark lord is a master of lies. Are you saying that he doesn’t have a good lie ready for this question? Are you sure that was the dark lord and not just a minor demon or something?

Ars Moriendi on February 22, 2009 at 7:35 PM

right4life…we aren’t.
Separation of church and state, membah?
like I said, keep it in your pants….erm….churches.

Like it or not, this country was founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs. You cannot claim “separation of church and state” for something that is an opinion, like Proposal 8. Separation of church and state is for things like prayer is schools, and it should only be used as an argument on similar things. If you call “separation of church and state” on every single social/ethical argument, you further prove you hold the weaker argument and can’t accept the right of many individuals to have their own opinions. If you do this, you have successfully silenced the voices and opinions of believers and non-believers alike.

Atheists, and anti-theists don’t have a “church” to keep out of state business, even though they hold opinions as broad as Christianity does. By that design, they will always win the “separation of church and state” argument.

Again using the argument of Proposal 8 in my example: from an evolutionary standpoint – which is a commonly held view of atheists – homosexuality is also a corruption of the design. Male parts belong with female parts, there is no other way. Care to explain this huge contradiction?

YoungAmerican on February 22, 2009 at 7:36 PM

right4life: Good going! You took on the whole group of them by yourself and won!

Christian Conservative on February 22, 2009 at 8:06 PM

Christian Conservative on February 22, 2009 at 8:06 PM

Don’ sell youself short. You know your bible, too. I feel sorry for justfinethanks. He just doesn’t get that whole “princes and principalities” part.

kingsjester on February 22, 2009 at 8:10 PM

right4life: Good going! You took on the whole group of them by yourself and won!

Christian Conservative on February 22, 2009 at 8:06 PM

Yeah, buts its no fair. right4life scared them all away and now we have no one to play with. Oh well. :-(

Maxx on February 22, 2009 at 8:17 PM

OldEnglish on February 22, 2009 at 5:06 PM

No biggie.

Speakup on February 22, 2009 at 8:20 PM

right4life: Good going! You took on the whole group of them by yourself and won!

Christian Conservative on February 22, 2009 at 8:06 PM

Blathering incoherently while plugging one’s ears with one’s fingers does not count as winning an argument. They probably decided their time would be better spent in the real world dealing with rational people.

hicsuget on February 22, 2009 at 8:28 PM

you shall know them by their fruits…and the fruits of evolution are:

eugenics
planned parenthood (sanger)
Hitler and the gas chambers

right4life on February 22, 2009 at 7:09 PM

Like I said, blathering incoherently. I said as much because I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt, rather than calling you a liar.

Eugenics has its roots in the Old Testament, in the command that the Children of Israel should not mix their noble blood with the inferior heathen races around them. Eugenics was just a pseudo-scientific veneer put on an ancient, stupid belief–much like Intelligent Design.

The eugenicist aspects of Margaret Sanger are adequately addressed in the paragraph above, and the non-eugenicist aspects of Margaret Sanger are only objectionable to misogynists and cult-of-death types (I’m looking at you, Ars Moriendi).

Bringing up Hitler in this context is a smear, and an outrageous untruth. No wonder nobody stuck around to talk to you.

hicsuget on February 22, 2009 at 8:41 PM

Like it or not, this country was founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs.

YoungAmerican on February 22, 2009 at 7:36 PM

Speaking of lies with which America’s youth are indoctrinated…

No need to post a reply, by the way. I’m sure you’ll see as you’re typing it up that the evidence you offer does not prove the conclusion you want it to.

hicsuget on February 22, 2009 at 8:43 PM

Blathering incoherently while plugging one’s ears with one’s fingers does not count as winning an argument. They probably decided their time would be better spent in the real world dealing with rational people.

hicsuget on February 22, 2009 at 8:28 PM

yadayada same old darwiniac lies and BS. why don’t you list the mutation that led to an eye…in order…since you’re so ‘rational’ I’m sure this will not be a problem.

right4life on February 22, 2009 at 8:48 PM

Wow…..all you guyz need is pitchforks and torches, lol.
Looks like Dr.Lynn is right…I see massive negative correlation between IQ and religious belief right on this thread.
;)

Journal of Intelligence

strangelet on February 22, 2009 at 8:50 PM

Eugenics has its roots in the Old Testament, in the command that the Children of Israel should not mix their noble blood with the inferior heathen races around them. Eugenics was just a pseudo-scientific veneer put on an ancient, stupid belief–much like Intelligent Design.

that had nothing to do with eugenics…you can’t even come up with a good lie…no one even coined the term until Galton, DARWIN’s cousin..did. get a clue…

The eugenicist aspects of Margaret Sanger are adequately addressed in the paragraph above, and the non-eugenicist aspects of Margaret Sanger are only objectionable to misogynists and cult-of-death types (I’m looking at you, Ars Moriendi).

Bringing up Hitler in this context is a smear, and an outrageous untruth. No wonder nobody stuck around to talk to you.

hicsuget on February 22, 2009 at 8:41 PM

truth hurts…even the darwiniacs admit that evolution led to Hitler…the history is clear…your lies are just pathetic…beyond stupid.

you darwiniacs are parodies….

right4life on February 22, 2009 at 8:51 PM

yadayada same old darwiniac lies and BS. why don’t you list the mutation that led to an eye…in order…since you’re so ‘rational’ I’m sure this will not be a problem.

right4life on February 22, 2009 at 8:48 PM

I wasn’t there to see it. I’m also not terribly well-read in biology, so I will not even venture a guess. PBS has something to say on the subject, though:

When evolution skeptics want to attack Darwin’s theory, they often point to the human eye. How could something so complex, they argue, have developed through random mutations and natural selection, even over millions of years?

If evolution occurs through gradations, the critics say, how could it have created the separate parts of the eye — the lens, the retina, the pupil, and so forth — since none of these structures by themselves would make vision possible? In other words, what good is five percent of an eye?

Darwin acknowledged from the start that the eye would be a difficult case for his new theory to explain. Difficult, but not impossible. Scientists have come up with scenarios through which the first eye-like structure, a light-sensitive pigmented spot on the skin, could have gone through changes and complexities to form the human eye, with its many parts and astounding abilities.

Through natural selection, different types of eyes have emerged in evolutionary history — and the human eye isn’t even the best one, from some standpoints. Because blood vessels run across the surface of the retina instead of beneath it, it’s easy for the vessels to proliferate or leak and impair vision. So, the evolution theorists say, the anti-evolution argument that life was created by an “intelligent designer” doesn’t hold water: If God or some other omnipotent force was responsible for the human eye, it was something of a botched design.

hicsuget on February 22, 2009 at 8:51 PM

strangelet on February 22, 2009 at 8:50 PM

there sure is a postitive correlation between lies, stupidity and believing in that hairy racist god of yours

right4life on February 22, 2009 at 8:52 PM

hicsuget on February 22, 2009 at 8:43 PM

Don’t be silly. From adherants.com

The religious affiliations of these individuals are summarized below. Obviously this is a very restrictive set of names, and does not include everyone who could be considered an “American Founding Father.” But most of the major figures that people generally think of in this context are included using these criteria, including George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Samuel Adams, Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, John Hancock, James Madison, Alexander Hamilton and more.

Religious Affiliation of U.S. Founding Fathers

Episcopalian/Anglican 88 54.7%
Presbyterian 30 18.6%
Congregationalist 27 16.8%
Quaker 7 4.3%
Dutch Reformed/German Reformed 6 3.7%
Lutheran 5 3.1%
Catholic 3 1.9%
Huguenot 3 1.9%
Unitarian 3 1.9%
Methodist 2 1.2%
Calvinist 1 0.6%
TOTAL 204

kingsjester on February 22, 2009 at 8:53 PM

Through natural selection, different types of eyes have emerged in evolutionary history — and the human eye isn’t even the best one, from some standpoints. Because blood vessels run across the surface of the retina instead of beneath it, it’s easy for the vessels to proliferate or leak and impair vision. So, the evolution theorists say, the anti-evolution argument that life was created by an “intelligent designer” doesn’t hold water: If God or some other omnipotent force was responsible for the human eye, it was something of a botched design.
hicsuget on February 22, 2009 at 8:51 PM

oh gee a ‘just-so’ story…wow what a surprise…no I asked for a list of the EXACT MUTATIONS in order….why is that so hard??? hmmmm??

this is beyond stupid…saying ‘god didn’t do it right’ is an argument FOR evolution…amazing.

right4life on February 22, 2009 at 8:54 PM

I wasn’t there to see it. I’m also not terribly well-read in biology, so I will not even venture a guess. PBS has something to say on the subject, though:

and it wouldn’t matter if you were…no one knows…its taken on faith that the eye evolved…

oh and the squid’s eye is remarkable similar to a human eye….the explanation?? ‘convergent evolution’

ie miracle…

right4life on February 22, 2009 at 8:55 PM

There is so much we know nothing about and it all fascinates me. Now they can tell what you look like with high tech DNA. A gorilla that can sign with hundreds of words. Savants that can play a piano, sculpt clay in minutes to bulls. Why do all animals sleep? Why do we dream? I love it all. I look at the non believers and smile.

mixplix on February 22, 2009 at 8:57 PM

that had nothing to do with eugenics…you can’t even come up with a good lie…no one even coined the term until Galton, DARWIN’s cousin..did. get a clue…

truth hurts…even the darwiniacs admit that evolution led to Hitler…the history is clear…your lies are just pathetic…beyond stupid.

you darwiniacs are parodies….

right4life on February 22, 2009 at 8:51 PM

It’s not the term eugenics that matters in this discussion; it’s the concept behind it. Further, and ironically for the side you are arguing, it was advances in science that showed that intelligence is not inherited to a significant degree, thus invalidating the pseudo-science of eugenics. Darwin can’t be blamed that a bunch of morons generations later misapplied his theories any more than Jesus can be blamed for the behavior of people like you.

Real life, and intelligent people, beckon. Have fun stewing in your own juices.

hicsuget on February 22, 2009 at 9:00 PM

Darwin can’t be blamed that a bunch of morons generations later misapplied his theories any more than Jesus can be blamed for the behavior of people like you.

uh moron, Darwin was a racist eugenicist..as his own words make clear…duhhhhhhh

At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly exterminate, and replace, the savage races throughout the world. At the same time the anthropomorphous apes, as Professor Schaaffhausen has remarked, will no doubt be exterminated. The break between man and his nearest allies will then be wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilized state, as we may hope, even than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as now between the negro or Australian and the gorilla.” (Darwin, Charles R. [English naturalist and founder of the modern theory of evolution], “The Descent of Man and Selection in Relation to Sex,” [1871], John Murray: London, Second Edition, 1922, reprint, pp.241-242)

With savages, the weak in body or mind are soon eliminated; and those that survive commonly exhibit a vigorous state of health. We civilised men, on the other hand, do our utmost to check the process of elimination; we build asylums for the imbecile, the maimed, and the sick; we institute poor-laws; and our medical men exert their utmost skill to save the life of every one to the last moment. There is reason to believe that vaccination has preserved thousands, who from a weak constitution would formerly have succumbed to small-pox. Thus the weak members of civilised societies propagate their kind. No one who has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this must be highly injurious to the race of man. It is surprising how soon a want of care, or care wrongly directed, leads to the degeneration of a domestic race; but excepting in the case of man himself, hardly any one is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed.” (Darwin, Charles R. [English naturalist and founder of the modern theory of evolution], “The Descent of Man and Selection in Relation to Sex,” [1871], John Murray: London, Second Edition, 1922, reprint, pp.205-206)

darwin was a vile, evil man, just like his followers…

right4life on February 22, 2009 at 9:10 PM

Like it or not, this country was founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs.
YoungAmerican on February 22, 2009 at 7:36 PM

Speaking of lies with which America’s youth are indoctrinated…

No need to post a reply, by the way. I’m sure you’ll see as you’re typing it up that the evidence you offer does not prove the conclusion you want it to.

hicsuget on February 22, 2009 at 8:43 PM

Sorry, hicsuget.

Alabama 1901, Preamble
We the people of the State of Alabama, invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish the following Constitution..
Alaska 1956, Preamble We, the people of Alaska, grateful to God and to those who founded our nation and pioneered this great land.
Arizona 1911, Preamble We, the people of the State of Arizona, grateful to Almighty God for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution…
Arkansas 1874, Preamble We, the people of the State of Arkansas, grateful to Almighty God for the privilege of choosing our own form of government…
California 1879, Preamble We, the People of the State of California, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom…
Colorado 1876, Preamble We, the people of Colorado, with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of Universe…
Connecticut 1818, Preamble. The People of Connecticut, acknowledging with gratitude the good Providence of God in permitting them to enjoy.
Delaware 1897, Preamble Through Divine Goodness all men have, by nature, the rights of worshipping and serving their Creator according to the dictates of their consciences.
Florida 1885, Preamble We, the people of the State of Florida, grateful to Almighty God for our constitutional liberty, establish this Constitution…
Georgia 1777, Preamble We, the people of Georgia, relying upon protection and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish this Constitution…
Hawaii 1959, Preamble We , the people of Hawaii, Grateful for Divine Guidance … Establish this Constitution.
Idaho 1889, Preamble We, the people of the State of Idaho, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings.
Illinois 1870, Preamble We, the people of the State of Illinois, grateful to Almighty God for the civil , political and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy and looking to Him for a blessing on our endeavors.
Indiana 1851, Preamble We, the People of the State of Indiana, grateful to Almighty God for the free exercise of the right to choose our form of government.
Iowa 1857, Preamble We, the People of the St ate of Iowa, grateful to the Supreme Being for the blessings hitherto enjoyed, and feeling our dependence on Him for a continuation of these blessings, establish this Constitution.
Kansas 1859, Preamble We, the people of Kansas, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious privileges establish this Constitution.
Kentucky 1891, Preamble. We, the people of the Commonwealth are grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties..
Louisiana 1921, Preamble We, the people of the State of Louisiana, grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties we enjoy.
Maine 1820, Preamble We the People of Maine acknowledging with grateful hearts the goodness of the Sovereign Ruler of the Universe in affording us an opportunity .. And imploring His aid and direction.
Maryland 1776, Preamble We, the people of the state of Maryland, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberty…
Massachusetts 1780, Preamble We…the people of Massachusetts, acknowledging with grateful hearts, the goodness of the Great Legislator of the Universe In the course of His Providence, an opportunity and devoutly imploring His direction ..
Michigan 1908, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Michigan, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of freedom, establish this Constitution.
Minnesota, 1857, Preamble We, the people of the State of Minnesota, grateful to God for our civil and religious liberty, and desiring to perpetuate its blessings:
Mississippi 1890, Preamble We, the people of Mississippi in convention assembled, grateful to Almighty God, and invoking His blessing on our work.
Missouri 1845, Preamble We, the people of Missouri, with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of the Universe, and grateful for His goodness .. Establish this Constitution…
Montana 1889, Preamble.. We, the people of Montana, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of liberty establish this Constitution .
Nebraska 1875, Preamble We, the people, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom . Establish this Constitution.
Nevada 1864, Preamble We the people of the State of Nevada, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, establish this Constitution…
New Hampshire 1792, Part I. Art. I. Sec. V Every individual has a natural and unalienable right to worship God according to the dictates of his own conscience.
New Jersey 1844, Preamble We, the people of the State of New Jersey, grateful to Almighty God for civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing on our endeavors.
New Mexico 1911, Preamble We, the People of New Mexico, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of liberty..
New York 1846, Preamble We, the people of the State of New York, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, in order to secure its blessings.

North Carolina 1868, Preamble We the people of the State of North Carolina, grateful to Almighty God, the Sovereign Ruler of Nations, for our civil, political, and religious liberties, and acknowledging our dependence upon Him for the continuance of those…
North Dakota 1889, Preamble We , the people of North Dakota, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, do ordain…
Ohio 1852, Preamble We the people of the state of Ohio, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings and to promote our common.
Oklahoma 1907, Preamble Invoking the guidance of Almighty God, in order to secure and perpetuate the blessings of liberty, establish this
Oregon 1857, Bill of Rights, Article I Section 2. All men shall be secure in the Natural right, to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their consciences
Pennsylvania 1776, Preamble We, the people of Pennsylvania, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, and humbly invoking His guidance….
Rhode Island 1842, Preamble. We the People of the State of Rhode Island grateful to Almighty God for the civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing…
South Carolina, 1778, Preamble We, the people of he State of South Carolina grateful to God for our liberties, do ordain and establish this Constitution.
South Dakota 1889, Preamble We, the people of South Dakota, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberties
Tennessee 1796, Art. XI.III. That all men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their conscience…
Texas 1845, Preamble We the People of the Republic of Texas, acknowledging, with gratitude, the grace and beneficence of God.
Utah 1896, Preamble Grateful to Almighty God for life and liberty, we establish this Constitution.
Vermont 1777, Preamble Whereas all government ought to enable the individuals who compose it to enjoy their natural rights, and other blessings which the Author of Existence has bestowed on man
Virginia 1776, Bill of Rights, XVI Religion, or the Duty which we owe our Creator can be directed only by Reason and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian Forbearance, Love and Charity towards each other
Washington 1889, Preamble We the People of the State of Washington, grateful to the Supreme Ruler of the Universe for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution
West Virginia 1872, Preamble Since through Divine Providence we enjoy the blessings of civil, political and religious liberty, we, the people of West Virginia reaffirm our faith in and constant reliance upon God
Wisconsin 1848, Preamble We, the people of Wisconsin, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, domestic tranquility…
Wyoming 1890, Preamble We, the people of the State of Wyoming, grateful to God for our civil, political, and religious liberties, establish this Constitution….

So, you were saying something about our youth being indoctrinated with lies…

pannw on February 22, 2009 at 9:11 PM

Real life, and intelligent people, beckon. Have fun stewing in your own juices.

hicsuget on February 22, 2009 at 9:00 PM

don’t go now!! I have no doubts you can say even dumber things than you already have!! you’re so dumb, you’re not even amusing…sad.

right4life on February 22, 2009 at 9:12 PM

Yeah, buts its no fair. right4life scared them all away and now we have no one to play with. Oh well. :-(

Maxx on February 22, 2009 at 8:17 PM

thank you, but don’t worry, like their father….they always return at a more opportune time…

right4life on February 22, 2009 at 9:13 PM

Lol.
You can’t fight science, right4life.
Evolutionary biology, cognitive psychology, molecular genetics, quantum physics and nanotech are all chomping away at the little patch of wheat you are cowering in.
Embrace the future!
Science FTW!

strangelet on February 22, 2009 at 9:30 PM

You can’t fight science, right4life.
Evolutionary biology, cognitive psychology, molecular genetics, quantum physics and nanotech are all chomping away at the little patch of wheat you are cowering in.
Embrace the future!
Science FTW!

strangelet on February 22, 2009 at 9:30 PM

its rather obvious you don’t have a clue about any of those disciplines…or you wouldn’t make such an idiotic statement….

evolutionary biology = telling stories
psychology = telling stories

molecular genetics…oh yeah the foundation of irreducable complexity and the ID movement..too funny huh? oh and genetics were found by a certain MONK named MENDEL..wasn’t a part of evolution until it was at such a dead end in the 40s that Mayr et al had to graft it into evolution…now we have the neo-darwinian synthesis..

physics?? its obvious you know nothing about physics…physics is down to 2 explanations:

1) multiverse…which is pure conjecture
2) the anthropic principle…ie the universe was designed

guess which has the most evidence???

are you for real? you throw terms out and you don’t have a clue. laughable.

right4life on February 22, 2009 at 9:36 PM

oh yeah nanotech…ie INTELLIGENT DESIGN

duhhhhhhhhh

right4life on February 22, 2009 at 9:38 PM

hicsuget on February 22, 2009 at 8:51 PM

Boy what a response on the”eye” issue. Pretty poor in fact. They still came up with no rational explanation that worked with Darwinian theory. Sorry my boy but you are laughable.

Jamson64 on February 22, 2009 at 9:54 PM

….and even as we speak…..the fearful mice cower in the everdiminishing wheat patch.
;)

strangelet on February 22, 2009 at 9:55 PM

Hicsuget

you got spanked and you you went to spend time with those that agree with you.

Jamson64 on February 22, 2009 at 9:57 PM

Physics is not “down to two explanations”.
What about Copenhagen, the omnium, many worlds, Max Tegmark’s 4 level multiverse and brane worlds?
What about the cosmic landscape, the reduced curvature of spacetime, quantum entanglement and quantum teleportation?

Pardon….did you perhaps attend BYU or Oral Roberts, right4life?
That might explain the……impoverishment of your physics education.
lol

strangelet on February 22, 2009 at 10:01 PM

BYU’s physics department is pretty good, actually.

sulla on February 22, 2009 at 10:12 PM

truth hurts…even the darwiniacs admit that evolution led to Hitler…the history is clear…your lies are just pathetic…beyond stupid.

you darwiniacs are parodies….

right4life on February 22, 2009 at 8:51 PM

Evolution led to you, too, but everyone makes mistakes, i suppose.

OldEnglish on February 22, 2009 at 10:13 PM

sulla, how is their evolutionary biology department?
and….do they even teach evo psych courses?
lol

strangelet on February 22, 2009 at 10:21 PM

“truth hurts” even the darwiniacs admit that evolution led to Hitler

hmmmmmmmmmm and what led to the Inquisition and Witch Trials in America? I think I red somewhere that people in glass houses should not through stones.

Any ideology, belief system, theory etc can be corrupted. Religion has been corrupted for absolutly horrible things spanning history and Christianity has an especially bloody place in the lot. To quote you “the history is clear”

Do these truths cast doubt on Christianity for you? Then why should the same logic apply to evolution?

DustyGreen on February 22, 2009 at 10:23 PM

and hey, sulla, since we’re talkin’ physics……are you a Hawking or a Hooft?

strangelet on February 22, 2009 at 10:24 PM

truth hurts” says “even the darwiniacs admit that evolution led to Hitler”

hmmmmmmmmmm and what led to the Inquisition and Witch Trials in America? I think I read somewhere that people in glass houses should not throw stones.

Any ideology, belief system, theory etc can be corrupted. Religion has been corrupted for absolutly horrible things spanning history and Christianity has an especially bloody place in the lot. To quote you “the history is clear”

Do these truths cast doubt on Christianity for you? Then why should the same logic apply to evolution?

DustyGreen on February 22, 2009 at 10:24 PM

Physics is not “down to two explanations”.
What about Copenhagen, the omnium, many worlds, Max Tegmark’s 4 level multiverse and brane worlds?

derivations of the multiverse…post some proof..put up or shut up..its all just BS speculation to avoid that (dreaded to atheist wackos) word…GOD.

got any more BS? oh yeah you do…

What about the cosmic landscape,

more multiverse BS from that wacko cult of phsyics…string theory…you really are a moron.

quantum entanglement

and this proves atheism how??? the whole of quantum physics shows there is a staggering intelligence behind the universe…

whats funny is you think this all just ‘happened’ SHAZAM there gomer…

Pardon….did you perhaps attend BYU or Oral Roberts, right4life?
That might explain the……impoverishment of your physics education.
lol

strangelet on February 22, 2009 at 10:01 PM

pardon, I’ll bet you’re as fat as you are stupid…

right4life on February 22, 2009 at 10:46 PM

hmmmmmmmmmm and what led to the Inquisition and Witch Trials in America? I think I read somewhere that people in glass houses should not throw stones.

ooooh the inquisition…I’ll take the 2 THOUSAND or so that died from that compared to the tens of MILLIONS that died from ‘applied evolution’ …your hellish little atheism has led to death and misery for uncounted millions…

Any ideology, belief system, theory etc can be corrupted. Religion has been corrupted for absolutly horrible things spanning history and Christianity has an especially bloody place in the lot. To quote you “the history is clear”

as my quotes from Darwin make clear…it wasn’t ‘corrupted’

get a clue.

right4life on February 22, 2009 at 10:48 PM

and Christianity has an especially bloody place in the lot. To quote you “the history is clear”

speaking of lies…that pretty much takes the cake…why don’t you move to the lands of that religion of peace?? islam…then you won’t have to put up with christianty.

Do these truths cast doubt on Christianity for you? Then why should the same logic apply to evolution?

DustyGreen on February 22, 2009 at 10:24 PM

why don’t you or that legend in his own mind strangelove, answer this:

list the mutations, in order, that led to the eye.

should be easy…

lets see evolution is not shown in the lab, or the fossil record…you just take it on faith…in your hairygod darwin…

right4life on February 22, 2009 at 10:54 PM

Embrace the future!
Science FTW!

strangelet on February 22, 2009 at 9:30 PM

What I don’t understand from athiests and/or Darwinists is why the hostility towards the study of Intelligent Design? Honestly, what are you afraid they’ll find…the Truth? If you truly think the truth is pure Darwinist evolution, which is still considered a theory itself and has a lot of holes in it, (but public school teachers are not allowed to explore these) then why not let the ID people dig themselves into their own hole? If there is no Intelligence behind the design, they won’t be able to prove there is. It is ironic that anti-theists always attack the Church and believers for being anti-science when the Church and her members (see Mendel mentioned above) and other believers have had a fantastic impact on scientific discovery. As a lifelong Christian, specifically Catholic, I have always been taught to seek the truth, and I do not fear it. Why do Darwinists/atheists seem to?

Intelligent design proponent Phillip E. Johnson illustrates the obstinancy of evolutionary scientists to recognize intelligent causation of design in nature when he wrote the following:

“One of the world’s most famous scientists, probably the most famous living biologist, is Sir Francis Crick, the British co-discoverer of the structure of DNA, a Nobel Prize winner…In his autobiography, Crick says very candidly biologists must remind themselves daily that what they study was not created, it evolved; it was not designed, it evolved. Why do they have to remind themselves of that? Because otherwise, the facts which are staring them in the face and trying to get their attention might break through. What we discovered when I developed a working group of scientists, philosophers, et al., in the United States was that living organisms look as if they were designed and they look that way because that is exactly what they are.”

From http://www.conservapedia.com/Intelligent_design

pannw on February 22, 2009 at 10:54 PM

the whole of quantum physics shows there is a staggering intelligence behind the universe…

I’ll amend that…the whole of physics, biology, molecular biology…pretty muc hyou name…show there is a staggering intelligence behind the universe…

look around..get a clue…its the only one you’ll be given…if you miss it…you have no excuse…

right4life on February 22, 2009 at 10:56 PM

even Gould knew the score..

“Biological arguments for racism may have been common before 1859, but they increased by orders of magnitude following the acceptance of evolutionary theory.” Stephen Jay Gould,
‘Ontogeny and Phylogeny’, Belknap-Harvard Press, pp. 27-128

“Haeckel was the chief apostle of evolution in Germany. Nordenskiold (1929) argues that he was even more influential than Darwin in convincing the world of the truth of evolution. … But, as Gasman argues, Haeckel’s greatest influence was, ultimately, in another, tragic direction-national socialism. His evolutionary racism; his call to the German people for racial purity and unflinching devotion to a “just” state; his belief that harsh, inexorable laws of evolution ruled human civilization and nature alike, conferring upon favored races the right to dominate others; the irrational mysticism that had always stood in strange communion with his brave words about objective science-all contributed to the rise of Nazism. The Monist League that he had founded and led, though it included a wing of pacifists and leftists, made a comfortable transition to active support for Hitler.” (Gould, Stephen J. [Professor of Zoology and Geology, Harvard University], “Ontogeny and Phylogeny,” Belknap Press: Cambridge MA, 1977, pp.77-78).

right4life on February 22, 2009 at 10:59 PM

“If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him.”
Voltaire [1694-1778]
Letters vol. xcvi (1769), quoted from Jonathon Green, The Cassell Dictionary of Cynical Quotations

Speakup on February 22, 2009 at 11:21 PM

I think however that we must go further than this and admit that the only acceptable explanation is Creation. I know that this is anathema to physicists, as indeed it is to me, but we must not reject a theory that we do not like if the experimental evidence supports it.

H.J. Lipson, F.R.S.A Physicist Looks at Evolution, in Physics Bulletin 31, 1980, p. 138.

Maxx on February 22, 2009 at 11:32 PM

“An honest god is the noblest work of man. … God has always resembled his creators. He hated and loved what they hated and loved and he was invariably found on the side of those in power.”

George Bernard Shaw [1856-1950] Irish-born English playwright

Speakup on February 22, 2009 at 11:37 PM

Within the period of human history we do not know of a single instance of the transformation of one species into another . . It may be claimed that the theory of descent is lacking, therefore, in the most essential feature that it needs to place the theory on a scientific basis.

T.H. Morgan, Evolution and Adaptation, p. 42

Maxx on February 22, 2009 at 11:47 PM

“An honest god is the noblest work of man. … God has always resembled his creators. He hated and loved what they hated and loved and he was invariably found on the side of those in power.”

Robert G. Ingersoll [1833-1899]

I screwed up terribly, I misattributed.

George Bernard Shaw [1856-1950] Irish-born English playwright
“The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one.”

Speakup on February 22, 2009 at 11:52 PM

If complex organisms ever did evolve from simpler ones, the process took place contrary to the laws of nature, and must have involved what may rightly be termed the miraculous.

R.E.D. Clark, Victoria Institute 1943, p. 63

Maxx on February 22, 2009 at 11:55 PM

“Thus I came…to a deep religiosity, which, however, reached an abrupt end at the age of 12. Through the reading of popular scientific books I soon reached a conviction that much in the stories of the Bible could not be true….Suspicion against every kind of authority grew out of this experience…an attitude which has never left me.” The Quotable Einstein

Speakup on February 22, 2009 at 11:57 PM

Microevolution does not lead beyond the confines of the species, and the typical products of microevolution, the geographic races, are not incipient species. There is no such category as incipient species.

Richard B. Goldschmidt, The Material Basis of Evolution (1960), p. 396

["Incipient" = the early, initial stages of something new]

Maxx on February 22, 2009 at 11:59 PM

“During the youthful period of mankind’s spiritual evolution, human fantasy created gods in man’s own image who, by the operations of their will were supposed to determine, or at any rate influence, the phenomenal world… The idea of God in the religions taught at present is a sublimation of that old conception of the gods. Its anthropomorphic character is shown, for instance, by the fact that men appeal to the Divine Being in prayers and plead for the fulfillment of their wishes… In their struggle for the ethical good, teachers of religion must have the stature to give up the doctrine of a personal God, that is, give up that source of fear and hope which in the past placed such vase power in the hands of priests.” Albert Einstein, reported in Science, Philosophy and Religion: A Symposium, edited by L. Bryson and

Speakup on February 23, 2009 at 12:00 AM

The extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record persists as the trade secret of paleontology. The evolutionary trees that adorn our textbooks have data only at the tips and nods of their branches; the rest is inference, however reasonable, not the evidence of fossils.
Stephen J. Gould The Pandas Thumb 1980, p. 181

Maxx on February 23, 2009 at 12:02 AM

Mr. Clemens was once asked whether he feared death. He said that he did not, in view of the fact that he had been dead for billions and billions of years before he was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.

Speakup on February 23, 2009 at 12:02 AM

Speakup on February 23, 2009 at 12:02 AM

LOL, I like that one. Ok give me a minute.

Maxx on February 23, 2009 at 12:04 AM

I would like evolution to join the roster of other discredited religions, like the Cargo Cult of the South Pacific. Practitioners of Cargo Cult believed that manufactured products were created by ancestral spirits, and if they imitated what they had seen the white man do, they could cause airplanes to appear out of the sky, bringing valuable cargo like radios and TVs.

So they constructed “airport towers” out of bamboo and “headphones” out of coconuts and waited for the airplanes to come with the cargo. It may sound silly, but in defense of the Cargo Cult, they did not wait as long for evidence supporting their theory as the Darwinists have waited for evidence supporting theirs.

Ann Coulter – June 2006 On Evolution

Maxx on February 23, 2009 at 12:06 AM

“It ain’t the parts of the Bible that I can’t understand that bother me, it is the parts that I do understand.”
(Mark Twain / 1835-1910

Speakup on February 23, 2009 at 12:09 AM

“Sacred cows make the best hamburger.”
(Mark Twain / 1835-1910)

Speakup on February 23, 2009 at 12:10 AM

One species does not grow from the seed of another species.

Sir Gavin de Beer, Charles Darwin” Evolution by Natural Selection (1964), p. 1.

(please tell me you don’t have the entire MB4 collection of Twain quotes)

Maxx on February 23, 2009 at 12:12 AM

Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence in society.
Mark Twain

Speakup on February 23, 2009 at 12:13 AM

I’ve been nice.

Speakup on February 23, 2009 at 12:14 AM

Nobody can imagine how nothing could turn into something. Nobody can get an inch nearer to it by explaining how something could turn into something else.

G.K. Chesterton (1925)

Maxx on February 23, 2009 at 12:15 AM

I have never let my schooling interfere with my education.
Mark Twain

Speakup on February 23, 2009 at 12:18 AM

Yep, I’ve got to sleep, work tomorrow. See ya Speakup!

Maxx on February 23, 2009 at 12:18 AM

Sleep well

Speakup on February 23, 2009 at 12:18 AM

(OK one more)

These assumptions by their nature are not capable of experimental verification . . It is therefore a matter of faith on the part of the biologist that biogenesis (spontaneous generation) did occur, and he can choose whatever method of biogenesis happens to suit him personally . . From our limited experience it is clear that the biochemical systems within protoplasm are not uniform, i.e. there is no established biochemical unity.

G. Kerkut, Implications of Evolution (1960)

Maxx on February 23, 2009 at 12:19 AM

I was running out of quotes anyway.

Maxx on February 23, 2009 at 12:19 AM

So, you were saying something about our youth being indoctrinated with lies…

pannw on February 22, 2009 at 9:11 PM

You sure went through a lot of work not to prove the point in question. The person to whom I was responding (YoungAmerican on February 22, 2009 at 7:36 PM) said, “Like it or not, this country was founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs.” Proving that most Founders believed in the Christian God does not prove that America was founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs.

Tell me where in the Bible, Old Testament or New, it says that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. I’ll save you the trouble of looking it up: it doesn’t.

The concept of individual rights represented a radical departure from the Biblical concept of government–the divine right of kings. Jesus said to render unto Caesar. America’s Founders told Caesar to stuff it–that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of individual rights, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

The pursuit of happiness is especially an un-Christian concept–the Bible teaches that any happiness stemming from anything other than the practice of religion (Judaism in the OT, Christianity in the NT) is a form of idolatry. Jefferson got the concept from pagan Greek philosophy.

Once again, I’m sure I’m talking over your heads, so let me simplify with an example: If three Christians get together to start a missionary organization to spread the teachings of Jesus, then that organization is founded upon Christian beliefs. If three Christians get together to start a Sonic franchise, then that organization, although founded by persons who espouse Judeo-Christian beliefs, is not itself founded upon Judeo-Christian beliefs–it is founded upon Sonic’s franchisee agreement.

hicsuget on February 23, 2009 at 12:23 AM

The concept of individual rights represented a radical departure from the Biblical concept of government–the divine right of kings. Jesus said to render unto Caesar.

hicsuget on February 23, 2009 at 12:23 AM

The Bible teaches the importance of property rights, ownership of private property. As Israel was settling in the Land of Milk and Honey the Lord setup specific rules so that families would not lose their property. There is also much to say about the Courts and how they must strive to be just. And Jesus said to render unto Caesar what was Caesar’s.

The Scriptures make it clear that when there is a disparity between man’s laws and God’s laws that we must follow God’s laws.

There is authority for the Preamble that you quoted also within the Scripture, but I don’t have time to dig it all out tonight. Maybe tomorrow I’ll post were much of that can be found. Its not all in one place, the Preamble is a concise summary of many teaching within the Scriptures.

Maxx on February 23, 2009 at 12:41 AM

These assumptions by their nature are not capable of experimental verification . . It is therefore a matter of faith on the part of the biologist that biogenesis (spontaneous generation) did occur, and he can choose whatever method of biogenesis happens to suit him personally . . From our limited experience it is clear that the biochemical systems within protoplasm are not uniform, i.e. there is no established biochemical unity.

G. Kerkut, Implications of Evolution (1960)

Maxx on February 23, 2009 at 12:19 AM

This is why I prefer to talk physics instead of biology–backwoods ministers aren’t smart enough to pretend to understand it, and thus the discussion is less polluted with misunderstood concepts. People attacking non-Book-of-Genesis theories of the origin of life and the universe refer to all of them as “evolution,” when in fact there are a number of separate ideas, concepts, and theories that make up the scientific understanding of the world.

That changes in the genetic makeup of organisms happen in the present, in the laboratory and in nature, is indisputable scientific fact. That these changes, over time, lead to development of different species is less evident, but evidenced nonetheless in the fossil record and elsewhere. That, once this mechanism is accepted as accurate, the enormous variety of life around us can be explained as having evolved from one pre-historic parent organism, is completely plausible, and is the only scientific, rational explanation for what we observe.

Biogenesis itself is “only a theory” in the same sense that anti-biologists say that the rest of biology is “only a theory.” But, with the rest of the biological theory for the origin of species having been proven conclusively in labs and elsewhere, and thus with the role of any God in creation having been limited to the creation of one unicellular life-form 500 million years ago, it is not much of a leap. Denying the whole corpus of evidence supporting natural selection, though, now that takes faith to move mountains.

Take the classic “argument” against the non-Deistic origin for the universe, of a man finding a watch on the beach. This man knows that every other watch he has ever seen came from a store, and that the store bought them in turn from a factory. This man saw a special once on the science channel that showed the assembly line of just such a watch factory. He says to himself, “this watch must have dropped off the wrist of someone who bought it at a store.” Then up comes running right4life, who insults his intelligence and accuses him of worshiping the devil, because he didn’t actually observe firsthand this particular watch being put there through ordinary processes.

hicsuget on February 23, 2009 at 12:50 AM

Cylor: A Liar for Christ.

[snip]

Everybody, including Stalin and Hussein, operate on what they do believe, not what they do not believe. But being a Liar for Christ you just had to paint atheism as the primary ingredient for the atrocities those animals wrought upon humanity, didn’t you?

FierceGuppy on February 22, 2009 at 4:08 AM

Well gee, looks like I’m not the only “Liar for Christ” here, am I? That’s good to know.

Anyway, you appear to have totally missed the point I was trying to illustrate: that for every time I see the argument made that Christianity/religion is primarily to blame for all the evils of the world, I can make an equally (or, in my view, more) compelling argument for the reverse. Obviously, neither one is entirely fair…but I guess that wasn’t obvious enough for this discussion.

My intent was to try to get people such as yourself and JayHaw Phrenzie to think twice before you casually trash the personal beliefs of others, since it obviously upsets you very much to be on the receiving end of exactly that.

But seeing your reaction, I expect that’s probably hoping for too much.

Exit question: if I’m a Liar for Christ, does that make you a Fool for Darwin?

Cylor on February 23, 2009 at 1:04 AM

pannw on February 22, 2009 at 10:54 PM

If I may give you my personal view on ID, it’s a cop-out for creation.

Therefore, although people are free to believe as they will, ID has no place in a science class. Any subject that includes the supernatural excludes itself from scientific study, by definition.

OldEnglish on February 23, 2009 at 1:13 AM

hicsuget: For a guy who authoritatively tells us these truths are not in the Bible, you make one wonder if you’ve ever read it. Our founders did. In their writings they quoted the Bible more than any other source by a wide margin.

Tell me where in the Bible, Old Testament or New, it says that all men are created equal…
hicsuget on February 23, 2009 at 12:23 AM

Oh well, must say goodnight and God bless!

Galatians 3:28  There is neither Jew nor Greek [ie non-Jew], there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Acts 10:34 God is no respecter of persons. {That means He loves everyone equally.]

that among these are Life
hicsuget on February 23, 2009 at 12:23 AM

Deuteronomy 30:19  I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

that among these are … Liberty
hicsuget on February 23, 2009 at 12:23 AM

Galatians 5:1  ¶Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

and the pursuit of Happiness
hicsuget on February 23, 2009 at 12:23 AM

Eccl 3:24 There is nothing better for a man, than that he should eat and drink, and that he should make his soul enjoy good in his labour. This also I saw, that it was from the hand of God.

Christian Conservative on February 23, 2009 at 1:21 AM

Oh well, must say goodnight and God bless!
Sorry that comment misplaced should have been at the end.

Christian Conservative on February 23, 2009 at 1:23 AM

Once again, I’m sure I’m talking over your heads, so let me simplify with an example: If three Christians get together to start a missionary organization to spread the teachings of Jesus, then that organization is founded upon Christian beliefs. If three Christians get together to start a Sonic franchise, then that organization, although founded by persons who espouse Judeo-Christian beliefs, is not itself founded upon Judeo-Christian beliefs–it is founded upon Sonic’s franchisee agreement.

hicsuget on February 23, 2009 at 12:23 AM

Oh, yes, so over my head. You are obviously too smart for poor little dim Christian me. So I’ll let some others answer you and the erroneous claim that our founders only believed in God, but did not base our foundation upon those beliefs.
Let’s see…Pursuit of happiness not Christian?
Thomas Jefferson: “ The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man.”
Samuel Adams: “ He who made all men hath made the truths necessary to human happiness obvious to all….” [ "American Independence," August 1, 1776. Speech delivered at the State House in Philadelphia]
Hmm…What did Jefferson have to say about Liberty? “God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever.””
How about these….
George Washington –Although guided by our excellent Constitution in the discharge of official duties, and actuated, through the whole course of my public life, solely by a wish to promote the best interests of our country; yet, without the beneficial interposition of the Supreme Ruler of the Universe, we could not have reached the distinguished situation which we have attained with such unprecedented rapidity. To HIM, therefore, should we bow with gratitude and reverence, and endeavor to merit a continuance of HIS special favors”. [-1797 letter to John Adams]
–“ It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and Bible.”
–“What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ.” [speech to the Delaware Indian Chiefs May 12, 1779]
–“To the distinguished character of patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian” [May 2, 1778, at Valley Forge]
James Madison: “ We’ve staked our future on our ability to follow the Ten Commandments with all of our heart.”

–“We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We’ve staked the future of all our political institutions upon our capacity…to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.” [1778 to the General Assembly of the State of Virginia]

Ben Franklin: “ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” –Constitutional Convention of 1787 | original manuscript of this speech
Does it get any clearer than this?

Patrick Henry–“It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.” [Patrick Henry-May 1765 Speech to the House of Burgesses]
Shall I go on? Do you really want to argue with the actual founding fathers that they did not found our great nation on the principles of Christianity? Or would it all have been over their heads?
You may argue that we are no longer a Christian nation, and by all indications I’d say we probably are not, to our great detriment, but please do not try to revise our history to suit your preferred view.

pannw on February 23, 2009 at 1:42 AM

ID has no place in a science class. Any subject that includes the supernatural excludes itself from scientific study, by definition.

OldEnglish on February 23, 2009 at 1:13 AM

thanks for admitting that ‘science’ is nothing more than atheism.

you don’t even know what is natural or not. laughable.

right4life on February 23, 2009 at 7:31 AM

But, with the rest of the biological theory for the origin of species having been proven conclusively in labs and elsewhere, and thus with the role of any God in creation having been limited to the creation of one unicellular life-form 500 million years ago, it is not much of a leap. Denying the whole corpus of evidence supporting natural selection, though, now that takes faith to move mountains.

lets see it..post your proof…

words, just words….

natural selection is a tautology, its meaningless ‘if its fit it survives’ duhhhh

talk about faith, its all ya got in your hairy racist god darwin…

right4life on February 23, 2009 at 7:33 AM

Then up comes running right4life, who insults his intelligence and accuses him of worshiping the devil, because he didn’t actually observe firsthand this particular watch being put there through ordinary processes.

hicsuget on February 23, 2009 at 12:50 AM

you insult our intelligence with every post.

I thought ‘science’ was all about reproducable results…you know observation, experiments…etc..

except for evolution..then its all faith..the hairyone said it, so it MUST BE TRUE!!

still waiting for that list of mutations that caused the eye to form….and why don’t you also list the mutations that took a bacteria to a multi-cellular life form?

I know all I’ll get is some fairy-tale story…

right4life on February 23, 2009 at 7:37 AM

This is why I prefer to talk physics instead of biology–backwoods ministers aren’t smart enough to pretend to understand it, and thus the discussion is less polluted with misunderstood concepts.

you wouldn’t if you knew anything about physics…as I said before physics is down to:

1) multiverse….a total fairy tale scifi story
2) anthropic principle…ie God designed the universe for life…because so many variables are so finely tuned to make life possible…

guess which has all the evidence?

I know, you’ll pick fairy-tale!!

right4life on February 23, 2009 at 7:43 AM

pannw on February 23, 2009 at 1:42 AM

For someone so in over your head, you are quite well-read & logical. Good comment!

jgapinoy on February 23, 2009 at 8:05 AM

Maxx on February 22, 2009 at 7:19 PM

Fascinating. I’m happy to learn a lot from these threads, & not just argue.

jgapinoy on February 23, 2009 at 8:07 AM

Eugenics has its roots in the Old Testament, in the command that the Children of Israel should not mix their noble blood with the inferior heathen races around them.

I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt & say that you’re naive rather than that you’re lying.
Noble blood? Not.
Israel happily accepted converted pagans into their fold–even Rahab the ex-harlot, who was deemed fit to be an ancestor of King David & of the Lord Jesus Christ.

jgapinoy on February 23, 2009 at 8:12 AM

amg, right4life is a retart.
Sir Roger Penrose postulates the Omnium as an alternative explanation to Many Worlds. They are opposites.
Cosmic Landscape theory postulates the evolution of cosmoses.
Your old enemy, ToE, didnt just design the eye, but the metaverse.
lol!
right4life seems to think his “god” is mucking around at the cell biology level…..or at the nanoparticle level? Which is it?
Did “god” design gorilla betaglobulin to differ in one out of 256 codons from human betaglobulin?

strangelet on February 23, 2009 at 8:16 AM

right4life….religion is science-substitute for people not smart enough to understand Real Science.

strangelet on February 23, 2009 at 8:20 AM

amg, right4life is a retart.

hey moron learn to spell…its retard…ie what you are..

do you ever post anything other than BS??

wackos like you prove the bible is true…professing to be wise they have become fools.

right4life on February 23, 2009 at 8:47 AM

Your old enemy, ToE, didnt just design the eye, but the metaverse

whats the metaverse? some scifi novel? laughable.

so ToE IS THE INTELLIGENT DESIGNER according to you…laughable..do you read the drivel you post?

right4life on February 23, 2009 at 8:48 AM

Did “god” design gorilla betaglobulin to differ in one out of 256 codons from human betaglobulin?

strangelet on February 23, 2009 at 8:16 AM

yadayada…here explain this…

A HERV-K provirus in chimpanzees, bonobos and gorillas, but not humans.
link

there are pseudogenes found in humans and apes but not in chimps:
A truncated immunoglobulin epsilon pseudogene is found in gorilla and man but not in chimpanzee.
link
why are so many tests done on mice rather than on other primates? While it is also cheaper to do tests on mice, the real reason is that their bodily systems (especially the immune system) function more similarly to ours than do those of primates.
As has been the case with numerous nuclear DNA markers, there was no consensus among the HERV trees for the relationship among humans, chimpanzees, and gorillas (30). The remaining trees displayed interesting deviations from the predicted separation of the 5′ and 3′ LTR sequences.
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right4life on February 23, 2009 at 8:53 AM

hey strangelove, since you’re such a ‘scientist’ then you shouldn’t have any problems giving me the list of mutations that led to the eye…in order…right?

go back and check your L. Ron Hubbarb books, I’m sure its in there somewhere…

right4life on February 23, 2009 at 8:57 AM

Humans and bananas share 40% of their DNA. Which one evoled from the other?

Akzed on February 23, 2009 at 9:05 AM

Humans and bananas share 40% of their DNA. Which one evoled from the other?

Akzed on February 23, 2009 at 9:05 AM

Perhaps they both evolved from a common ancestor, rather than either directly from the other? That would be consistent with the theory of evolution. 40% shared DNA wouldn’t necessarily be inconsistent with with creation either, though not predicted. The point being that you have no actual point.

DarkCurrent on February 23, 2009 at 9:25 AM

Perhaps they both evolved from a common ancestor, rather than either directly from the other? That would be consistent with the theory of evolution. 40% shared DNA wouldn’t necessarily be inconsistent with with creation either, though not predicted. The point being that you have no actual point.

DarkCurrent on February 23, 2009 at 9:25 AM

a common ancestor, with a plant???? sigh…you did hear that the tree of life has been thrown out now haven’t you? no tree, no common ancestor, no evolution…

right4life on February 23, 2009 at 9:34 AM

hey strangelove, since you’re such a ’scientist’ then you shouldn’t have any problems giving me the list of mutations that led to the eye…in order…right?

right4life on February 23, 2009 at 8:57 AM

right4life, you through out this red herring all the time. It should be obvious that the exact sequence of mutations that led to the evolution of eyes is essentially unknowable at this time. We’d have to have DNA samples from every stage in the evolution, and DNA isn’t usually conserved in the fossil record. On the other hand, if you could show definitively that no sequence of mutations (guided by the constraints of natural selection) could ever lead to the evolution of an eye you’d have an argument.

DarkCurrent on February 23, 2009 at 9:39 AM

through = throw

DarkCurrent on February 23, 2009 at 9:40 AM

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