California breaks budget impasse; Update: Tax swap, not cut

posted at 10:52 am on February 19, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

The California Republican rebellion in the state Senate has ended, and California has a budget deal.  Democrats negotiated for the one Republican vote they needed and got it from Abel Maldonado, in exchange for an elimination of a gas tax increase and some electoral reforms.  The agreement will still mean billions of dollars in new taxes for an already-overburdened state economy:

The state Senate approved a long-awaited budget early Thursday intended to wipe out a $42 billion deficit, possibly steering the state clear of a fiscal disaster.

Leaders secured the final vote needed from a moderate Republican in late-night negotiations by agreeing to his demands for election changes, government reform and removal of a gas tax increase, giving them the two-thirds needed to pass the package, 27-12.

The budget awaited approval from the state Assembly, which had been expected to approve previous budget deals earlier this week but has yet to weigh in on the late changes. The Assembly was set to take up the bill immediately.

What did Maldonado get for his vote?  One point in particular appears to have clinched the deal.  Democrats agreed to put a referendum on the ballot approving open primaries, which Maldonado hopes will generate more moderate candidates for general elections.  California has had closed primaries for decades, and some people attribute that to the polarized nature of California politics.  On the other hand, it will likely open the door to partisan mischief through Operation Chaos-like organized protests.

Other than that, the big win for Maldonado was the removal of a big increase in the state’s gasoline tax, which is already sky-high.  He also demanded more program cuts than in the previous agreement, an end to legislative pay increases when budget deficits arise, and to cancel the order of new office furniture for the state controller.  The change in the gas tax and the sundry budget cuts Maldonado demanded now put budget cuts higher than tax increases ($15B to $12B, respectively).

The Assembly will likely pass this immediately, rather than drag it out over the loss of the gas tax. It’s a net loss for Republicans, and also for Californians.  They already pay almost the highest overall tax rate in the country.  Despite what Schwarzenegger says, the problem isn’t a lack of taxes — it’s a lack of fiscal discipline and an overly large nanny state.  Cutting 10% of California’s budget, which is what this does, is about as effective as cutting 10% of one’s sugar intake for diabetic management.  A responsible legislature would redline vast amounts of the state’s bureaucracy, paring it back to a per-capita outlay in alignment with most of the other states in the nation.  in FY2006, California ranked 6th in the nation, behind Alaska, Hawaii, Delaware, New York, and Wyoming.

Update: HA reader Ryan S points out that the elimination of the gas tax doesn’t actually eliminate the extra tax burden, according to the Sacramento Bee:

Leaders also agreed to Maldonado’s demand to eliminate the 12-cent additional gas tax, which was estimated to bring in $2.1 billion through June 2010. The money will be replaced with a 0.25 percent increase in the state income tax, federal stimulus dollars and more than $600 million in line-item vetoes.


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The five propositions failed because NO ONE CAME OUT TO VOTE. The election had the lowest participation in any election…

AS didn’t support the propositions enough.

Kjeil on February 19, 2009 at 12:16 PM

If you can’t put this in perspective, take your state’s current deficit (and by California’s “standards”) TRIPLE IT!

Rovin on February 19, 2009 at 12:02 PM

Yeah, and do it in Ten Years! Ridiculous.

Rovin, where are you at in CA? I lived in Sacramento for 28 years, and have been in El Dorado Hills for the past 14.

juanito on February 19, 2009 at 12:18 PM

Can anybody show me what “real conservatism” has gotten accomplished in California?
rockmom on February 19, 2009 at 12:00 PM

No, but I can show you what unchecked liberalism has accomplished. I understand your point. Look California is done, nothing will change until a true depression or civil war. Just like the rest of the country.

ClassicCon on February 19, 2009 at 12:19 PM

“We’re stuck in a hole down here , can someone throw down a shovel?”

the_nile on February 19, 2009 at 11:36 AM

I think a shovel won’t go deep enough. We need a Caterpillar! That might not dig deep enough.

sheebe on February 19, 2009 at 12:20 PM

Democrats agreed to put a referendum on the ballot approving open primaries, which Maldonado hopes will generate more moderate candidates for general elections.

Isn’t this how we ended up with McCain in ’08? What a success that was!

I hope Abel has fun with Arlen, Olympia and Susan at the next White House cocktail party.

I was just about to renew my RNC membership. Now, I’m going to wait. Even though I’ve been encouraged by recent events (House Republicans and Senators not caving to Porkulus; California Republicans replacing Cogdill with the conversative Hollingsworth), I’m still not convinced that the Republicans learned anything from the November election.

Kalifornia Kafir on February 19, 2009 at 12:28 PM

Getting real conservatism in California is a tough task when you have judges over turning every step of the way..

MALICIOUS DISORDER on February 19, 2009 at 12:36 PM

Why does there need to law about if primaries are open or not? Political parties are private oranizations, therefore, it is up to the state party to decide if they want to allow open primaries.

Libertarian Joseph on February 19, 2009 at 11:00 AM

As long as elections are paid for and run by the state, the state will be setting the rules for them.

MarkTheGreat on February 19, 2009 at 12:36 PM

***I’m still not convinced that the Republicans learned anything from the November election.
Kalifornia Kafir on February 19, 2009 at 12:28 PM

You can’t blame the Republican Party for the actions of a lone Senator. And the fact is that the Democrats control 63% of the California State Legislature (Assembly & Senate) and have for decades. At some point, you can’t fight city hall.

The Governator has tried over the years many times to get a balanced budget and to reign in spending. Each time, he’s been thwarted. So fine, if the best budget deal that can be reached basically involves massive tax hikes, then fine. That’s what the citizens of California want, that’s what they’ll get, and the dissenters will just move to other states.

Outlander on February 19, 2009 at 12:37 PM

per-capita outlay in alignment with most of the other states in the nation. in FY2006, California ranked 6th in the nation, behind Alaska, Hawaii, Delaware, New York, and Wyoming.

And ranked dead last (51st) for business climate.

Considering the huge majority the liberals have in the legislature (they almost don’t need the GOP for a 2/3rds vote) this is not a terrible bit of wrangling.

Money buys votes and the libs have huge union dollars to keep them in office.

Tom Daschle limo lib clones run this state.

Speakup on February 19, 2009 at 12:40 PM

As long as elections are paid for and run by the state, the state will be setting the rules for them.

MarkTheGreat on February 19, 2009 at 12:36 PM

That’s bs

Libertarian Joseph on February 19, 2009 at 12:40 PM

Rovin, where are you at in CA? I lived in Sacramento for 28 years, and have been in El Dorado Hills for the past 14.

juanito on February 19, 2009 at 12:18 PM

I’m up in Humboldt county now but was born and raised in SAC. Lived in Lake Hills Estates in the late 60′s and went to Ponderosa High. My aunt and uncle bought a new home in EDH for 18 thousand—that ought to age me pretty good. :)

Rovin on February 19, 2009 at 12:40 PM

I’m still not convinced that the Republicans learned anything from the November election.

Kalifornia Kafir on February 19, 2009 at 12:28 PM

+1

Rovin on February 19, 2009 at 12:42 PM

That’s what the citizens of California want, that’s what they’ll get, and the dissenters will just move to other states.

Kalifornia Kafir is accepting suggestions for which state she should move to.

Kalifornia Kafir on February 19, 2009 at 12:46 PM

went to Ponderosa High. My aunt and uncle bought a new home in EDH for 18 thousand—that ought to age me pretty good. :)

Rovin on February 19, 2009 at 12:40 PM

Small world. My 7 & 4 yr olds will be attending Pondersoa when they hit High School.

At this rate, your aunt and uncle will be able to buy my house in EDH for 18 thousand soon!

juanito on February 19, 2009 at 12:50 PM

That’s bs

Libertarian Joseph on February 19, 2009 at 12:40 PM

That’s reality. If the parties want to control the primaries, then the parties are going to have to pay for the primaries.

MarkTheGreat on February 19, 2009 at 12:51 PM

***
Watch the 1990′s POPEYE MOVIE again–wonderful music and lyrics on how the corrupt town government taxed air, taxes, speech, babies, and everything else in sight!
***
It’s back–Kalifornia has an economic death wish. Businesses and taxpayers are voting with their feet. The Gubinator doesn’t get it–neither do the Sacramento retard legislators.
***
Bad times are going to get worse for the people there soon. But don’t worry–the critters and forests will do quite well without people.
***
John Bibb
***

rocketman on February 19, 2009 at 12:55 PM

I’M OFFICIALLY CALLING FOR A SAN DIEGO TEA PARTY IN PROTEST OF THE STATE AND FEDERAL GOVERNMENT

ANYONE HERE WANNA JOIN ME?

Defector01 on February 19, 2009 at 12:57 PM

It’s not the republicans that need to learn from elections. It’s the voters. Maybe when they pay their new double car registration fee it’ll open their eyes.
Either way A.M. radio @ 640KFI will begin the repeal process starting today @ 3 PM. Get on board…

MALICIOUS DISORDER on February 19, 2009 at 12:58 PM

I’M OFFICIALLY CALLING FOR A SAN DIEGO TEA PARTY IN PROTEST OF THE STATE AND FEDERAL GOVERNMENT

ANYONE HERE WANNA JOIN ME?

Defector01 on February 19, 2009 at 12:57 PM

Why not have the tea party on the warf in SF, that way we can hang Pelosi in effigy and kill two birds…….

Rovin on February 19, 2009 at 1:04 PM

Why not have the tea party on the warf in SF, that way we can hang Pelosi in effigy and kill two birds…….

Rovin

Because
1. I want to be in the normal part of California
2. I want to go some place people will show up to
3. I live in San Diego

Defector01 on February 19, 2009 at 1:14 PM

Defector01 on February 19, 2009 at 1:14 PM

LOL! OK, I’ve got family in Santee…..so set the date and I’m there

Rovin on February 19, 2009 at 1:22 PM

I’m no shill for KFI AM 640, nor do I particularly like John and Ken, the talk show hosts that created the now infamous “Heads on a stick” campaign. But I am a CA resident and support their rebellion.

The rest of the country (& wimp Michael Steele) should take note; either in its success or failure.

Tea Party? Neh. Rather, Rand got it right w/ Atlas Shrugged. So did the Pilgrams and so did the Zionists – the righteous wealth producers must go on strike – must exodus and start anew.

(We must also prepare to defend ourselves fiercely, physically and intellectually).

Quetzal on February 19, 2009 at 1:34 PM

oppressed” would have been a better descriptor..

Quetzal on February 19, 2009 at 1:38 PM

Defector01 on February 19, 2009 at 12:57 PM

When?

This Californian is also open to sugestions as to a warm state to relocate my family and business.

opusrex on February 19, 2009 at 1:51 PM

Califonians…..get out while you can

notagool on February 19, 2009 at 1:53 PM

Get out where ? The whole country is fU.

MALICIOUS DISORDER on February 19, 2009 at 2:02 PM

Billions of dollars in new taxes fee increases.

Forgot that, Ed. ;)

Ryan Gandy on February 19, 2009 at 2:17 PM

Ah crap, the “new taxes” thing should be struck through.

This is what I get for manually typing out HTML code when I’m switching between two pages.

Ryan Gandy on February 19, 2009 at 2:17 PM

On top of this, we Angelenos get to vote for mayor next month.

Twenty bucks says Villardonothing gets reelected even though he’s all but said he’s going to run for Governor.

If Walter Moore pulls out a victory, I’m staying. If not, I’m packing my bags for North Carolina.

I can’t continue to live in a city where people choose to reelect a hack like Tony Villar.

The corruption in this town runs from the top straight to the bottom.

I’ve sent emails out to every single person running for city council in my district asking if they’d support to remove Special Order 40.

36 hours later, I’ve yet to receive a response from any of them.

F*cking cowards.

The Ugly American on February 19, 2009 at 2:21 PM

Kalifornia Kafir on February 19, 2009 at 12:46 PM
opusrex on February 19, 2009 at 1:51 PM

I’m in Santa Monica. When I’m ready to bail, I’ll be heading to Kansas City, MO. There are great people, the traffic will be nothing compared to what you’re used to, you can by an amazingly large house in a good neighborhood for less than you’d spend on a ‘fixer-upper’ in the ghetto in LA and use the money that you save to send your kids to a nice private school.

If you’re looking for something that’s even less far down the socialist road than KC, I’d suggest either Wyoming (just don’t tell the locals you’re from CA) or Alaska, but be prepared to be extremely self-sufficient.

JadeNYU on February 19, 2009 at 2:30 PM

Anyone else catch that Maldonado argued for and won an OPEN PRIMARY. Isn’t that what got us into trouble and saddled with McLame? Can someone explain how that is a positive for Republicans when it was sucha disaster just a couple months ago.

America1st on February 19, 2009 at 2:43 PM

Is it time for a Tax-Payers revolt? I wrote this last summer and it may apply here:

We will be planning our own Million Man March on Washington, DC to protest the plans of the new administration to “Sock-it-to the Wealthy” with their “Steal from the Hard-Working” programs. Their “Potato in Every Pot and Hand in Every Pocket” plan is just going too far. Instead of the ceremonial burning of the American Flag we will be burning the works of Karl Marx instead. Everyone is encouraged to bring a copy for the burning. For those having difficulty locating a copy of the Communist Manifesto they might try their local library; I understand that each library has at least 15 or 20 that were placed their by the DNC. Just remember to bring back the ashes so you wont be charged for losing a book. You will have reduced it to its lowest common denominator so there should be no charges. See you in Washington….

DL13 on February 19, 2009 at 2:46 PM

Ahnold and the lone maverick wins and the gop lose another one.

getalife on February 19, 2009 at 2:54 PM

I’m willing to help organize a FEDERAL/State Tea Party in SoCal – anybody else??
 
I have already re-domiciled my corporation outside CA – moved my servers and everything but my brain outside CA.
 
It was SO satisfying, when the tax board called to ask “where’s our money?” to tell them we had moved out of state!!
 

ElRonaldo on February 19, 2009 at 2:57 PM

Ahnold and the lone maverick wins and the gop lose another one.

getalife on February 19, 2009 at 2:54 PM

You are the smartest on HA; see this

I have already re-domiciled my corporation outside CA – moved my servers and everything but my brain outside CA.

It was SO satisfying, when the tax board called to ask “where’s our money?” to tell them we had moved out of state!!

ElRonaldo on February 19, 2009 at 2:57 PM

All actions have consequences.

Schadenfreude on February 19, 2009 at 3:00 PM

Good move ElRonaldo… your not alone, leave it to the Mexicans and see how much tax they get.

MALICIOUS DISORDER on February 19, 2009 at 3:09 PM

Its all BULLCRAP..

they are going to raise taxes but who will pay them?
Not the 20 million illegal mexicans
Not the liberals who are hiding all their money in offshore bank accounts..

Not all of the treasonist hollywood actors who incorporated aLL of their companies overseas (to AVOID paying income taxes)…

So whos left?
Only the few working folks and how much can you Get from them when they cant afford their house payments..

Liberals there all MORONS and cant add..

it isnt hard you morons its called
Cutting the budget

jcila on February 19, 2009 at 3:11 PM

We need a new GOP logo.

It will show the Donkey giving some trinkets and shiny bead to the Elephant.

Do you really believe the House and Senate Republicans didn’t for the Porkulus bill because of their true Conservative beliefs?

Helloyawl on February 19, 2009 at 3:12 PM

I read NYC Bloomie learned only 40,000 people in his city pay over 50% of the taxes. Let’s hope 10% bail then the city will end up like New Orleans and sink to the depth it deserves..

MALICIOUS DISORDER on February 19, 2009 at 3:17 PM

This Californian is also open to sugestions as to a warm state to relocate my family and business.

opusrex on February 19, 2009 at 1:51 PM

I myself am heading to the Silver state, enough of this BS.

I talked to a friend of mine this morning, he was asking how businesses was, etc. Told him not bad considering the climate. Then I mentioned the budget got passed and how taxes and fees will be going up.

He said it was a good thing – he was happy to pay more taxes.

I was speechless…

RedbonePro on February 19, 2009 at 3:23 PM

The Republican need to remove that RAT from the caucus and the voters of his district need to recall his tax and spend behind.

thmsmgnm on February 19, 2009 at 3:23 PM

Maldonado’s district is the next one over from mine.

He has bragged in the past about not ever voting for a tax increase against California taxpayers.

Boy, has he ever made up for that.

Gee thanks a lot, Abel, for emptying my pockets a little more.

There’s a local conservative radio talk show, whose host Andy Caldwell has implored listeners this week to call Sacramento to plead with the wobbly Maldonado not to vote for this horrendous budget. I imagine that steam will be coming out of Caldwell’s ears when he starts his show later on today.

Edouard on February 19, 2009 at 3:31 PM

Yes, Quetzal, John and Ken are going to go berserk today!

I just have to say, our budget cuts are really cuts to proposed increases, so they fooled us again. The truth is mentioned almost nowhere, certainly not the papers.

PattyJ on February 19, 2009 at 3:41 PM

Yes, Quetzal, John and Ken are going to go berserk today!

I just have to say, our budget cuts are really cuts to proposed increases, so they fooled us again. The truth is mentioned almost nowhere, certainly not the papers.

PattyJ on February 19, 2009 at 3:41 PM

I look forward to my ride home this afternoon. Maldonado wants to run for Governor. He can kiss that good-bye.

You’re so right on those “cuts”. The media is derelict.

We need a taxpayers’ revolt.

Entelechy on February 19, 2009 at 3:53 PM

TAXPAYERS REVOLT on APRIL 15, 2009

This can be done.

We need to organize and plan. Who’s with me?

Califemme on February 19, 2009 at 4:06 PM

“We’re stuck in a hole down here , can someone throw down a shovel?”

the_nile on February 19, 2009 at 11:36 AM

I think a shovel won’t go deep enough. We need a Caterpillar! That might not dig deep enough.

sheebe on February 19, 2009 at 12:20 PM

I think we need a drilling rig; or rather, a lot of them. They go to record depths these days, you know ;)

What *I* really need is OUT of this state. In the meantime, I’ll come to HA for my daily dose of sanity…

NorCalConservative on February 19, 2009 at 4:07 PM

I hope he rots in hell with Collins, Specter, and Snowe.

PersonalLiberty on February 19, 2009 at 4:19 PM

were planning in san diego pane@cox.net

MALICIOUS DISORDER on February 19, 2009 at 4:19 PM

MALICIOUS DISORDER on February 19, 2009 at 4:19 PM

I emailed you…

Califemme on February 19, 2009 at 4:29 PM

The problem is we (conservatives) are NOT organized, and we’ve seen just how organized the Dems are. We need to start rounding up as many groups as possible, and coordinate for April 15, 2009. National “Take Back Our Tea” Party?

califemme@hotmail.com

Califemme on February 19, 2009 at 4:37 PM

were planning in san diego pane@cox.net

MALICIOUS DISORDER on February 19, 2009 at 4:19 PM

I applaud your efforts, but it will take a lot more than that to get the attention this will need. You are going to need some big names to attract the media, and a sizable crowd to impress the entire state that something major is going on. We have to convince Democrats that this is bad for the state, not just Republicans.

I have attended a few of these rallies, and most of them end up with only a handful of people showing up. Unless you are able to get the media there, the rally will only attract the “choir,” and we need to wake up more than the “choir.”

Joe Pyne on February 19, 2009 at 4:47 PM

Can the Guvernator still veto this crap sandwich?

DL13 on February 19, 2009 at 5:40 PM

Abel Maldonado was just Hispandering.

Santa Maria (where he’s from) is a sh*t hole full of Democrat registered, illegal alien voters. The only reason he wants open primaries is so that they will cross over and vote for him.

A hole.

NTWR on February 19, 2009 at 5:43 PM

I’ve heard there are county by county tax revolts going on now. Only heard it one place though, on Fresno’s 580 AM station with Ray Appleton. If any of you know any more about it please spread the word- I want to help.

NTWR on February 19, 2009 at 5:45 PM

NTWR, unfortunately I told you the truth a few days ago :(

Revolt in California. It’s on.

Entelechy on February 19, 2009 at 6:21 PM

A hole.

NTWR on February 19, 2009 at 5:43 PM

He wants to run for Governor.

Entelechy on February 19, 2009 at 6:22 PM

Can the Guvernator still veto this crap sandwich?

DL13 on February 19, 2009 at 5:40 PM

Sure, but he won’t. He put out the blueprint for it, and he’s happy. He needs to be recalled. We helped him in, we can help him out.

Entelechy on February 19, 2009 at 6:23 PM

We have to convince Democrats that this is bad for the state, not just Republicans.

Joe Pyne on February 19, 2009 at 4:47 PM

Democrats are e-mailing and calling John and Ken in droves. They and their businesses are just as screwed.

This can not be ignored. John and Ken will get the media there, kicking and screaming.

Entelechy on February 19, 2009 at 6:26 PM

This needs to be immortalized, from the HA headlines

I rarely post – but I can hold back no longer. We are dead. The insane asylum (Washington) has been taken over by the patients. When America was settled, folks came here for opportunity. Why did someone hop in a covered wagon and head west with no promises from anyone – except the promise that a self reliant person had an opportunity to better himself? No one was promised free healthcare. No one was promised Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps or a free education. Now our government is going to pay your mortgage! Well, only for the idiots that bought houses they could not afford. Those that played by the rules and were self reliant get shafted. We will pay for our neighbors’ mistakes.

During a prosperous time, when government receipts exceed its expenses, nothing is wrong with programs to help the disadvantaged. BUT today we have to borrow from China to pay for these additional programs and place the burden on our children to pay the bill. No parent would stand by and sign their child into economic slavery — BUT this is what we collectively allowed our government to do.

My friends the battle has been lost. The number of citizens in this country that believe the government is the tit upon which all people can suck upon from cradle to grave now exceed the number of citizens that want to be self reliant.

THIS WILL END BADLY

HalJordan on February 19, 2009 at 5:58 PM

Entelechy on February 19, 2009 at 6:31 PM

This too:

And yet the imbecile American masses still give this thug of a president 60% approval day after day.

At some point you just have to say f**k it and not care anymore. If after losing 23% of their investments since election day, 60% of people still think he’d doing a good job….well what can you do? The people are getting what they deserve.

Personally speaking real estate and stocks falling is good. I have nothing but cash and own no real estate. The more it falls, the better off I will be when I buy for pennies on the dollar. But if I have to live in a 3rd World hell hole, even if I get to buy a lot of stuff on the cheap, it will still suck.

And I will never forgive the 56% of idiots who voted for Obama and put the final coffin in this once great nation.

angryed on February 19, 2009 at 6:22 PM

Entelechy on February 19, 2009 at 6:31 PM

I’m in San Diego, and would up for any tea parties. Maybe outside Kehoe’s offices on 5th.

jsingood on February 19, 2009 at 7:10 PM

maybe after california fails and falls under its own dead weight…we in Texas can buy it, neuter the dead weight (democrats) and make it a good and worthy state.

Handel on February 19, 2009 at 7:30 PM

I’m in San Diego, and would up for any tea parties. Maybe outside Kehoe’s offices on 5th.

jsingood on February 19, 2009 at 7:10 PM

Tea….. Did somebody say TEA….. Sign me up…. Oh and yea… I’m also in San Diego County…

doriangrey on February 19, 2009 at 8:03 PM

The GOP are reduced to snivelling brown-noser cowards, who let the Democrats dump all over them on EVERY issue at the state and federal level.

searcher484 on February 19, 2009 at 11:00 PM

I’m in San Diego, and would up for any tea parties. Maybe outside Kehoe’s offices on 5th.

I think it’s important though to keep focus on Sacramento and not drag in Kehoe or any other City politicians or issues. That’s a hopeless rat’s nest that I don’t have to deal with, thank God. I’m in East County, Duncan Hunter/Joel Anderson territory. I’m up for the Tea Party. We can stop at The Pannikin for the tea!

Someone needs to copy Roger. I think he’d be up for it.

rcl on February 20, 2009 at 11:06 AM

I think it’s important though to keep focus on Sacramento and not drag in Kehoe or any other City politicians or issues.

I’m not exactly sure what the distinction you’re making here is. I mean, since Kehoe is one of San Diego’s representatives in Sacramento, is chair of the State Senate Appropriations Committee (and thus Queen of Waste in Sacramento), and voted in favor of this “budget,” it seems to me appropriate to target her, along with any other member of the legislature that helped pass this boondoggle. She wouldn’t be dragged in – she IS part of the focus, part of the issue at hand, and directly a major part of the problem. The offices of our Sacramento legislatures here in San Diego seem to me to be a proxy for Sacramento down here, more so than say any government office like the DMV, since these are the offices of the “decisions makers.”

I can see, however, wanting to target the entire legislature rather than particular members, I just think, from down here, it’s harder. If we were in Sacramento, we could go directly to the buildings of power.

Because of the funky way districting works, I’m in Joel Anderson territory as well. So, I’m well-represented in the Assembly at least.

jsingood on February 20, 2009 at 12:18 PM

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