Quote of the day
posted at 10:35 pm on February 18, 2009 by Allahpundit
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“Atheists claim to value reason above blind faith and individuality above the lock-step certitude of religion. My own rejection of faith, I hoped, would allow me to indulge in wicked thoughts and pork-based dishes. I hoped I could, forever, avoid hallelujah get-togethers, groupthinky organizations and constraining labels.
Yet, these days, atheists are organized. They’re activists. They will probably sue you. They have become exasperatingly earnest, hopelessly serious and unnecessarily pushy.
They have, in other words, become as tedious as Joel Osteen. And there are few greater sins.”
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Why do Christians care so much about other peoples beliefs?
iamblue
AP is an atheist. AP creates these threads. Take it up with him.
SKYFOX on February 19, 2009 at 6:25 AM
Ancient Horrible Book?
Allow peaceful people to practice their religion. Just because my Bible commands I act in a certain way doesn’t mean you have to if you choose not to believe. Many problems come from people who say they have no believe in the book or shrug it’s irrelevance but then feel some compulsion to spend every waking moment dissuading true believers from it.
hawkdriver on February 19, 2009 at 6:38 AM
Harsanyi’s opinions are just plain silly. There is nothing wrong with a few atheist who perceive a common interest organizing. Of course, most atheist won’t join the organization.
Anyway, the real cultural divide isn’t between atheist and the religious, but between the liberal religionists with whom the atheists tend to side and the conservative religionists. I believe both sides are wrong about just about anything, but permit me to point out one error the conservative religionists make. They misrepresent the relationship between liberal religionists and atheists such that the atheists are the driving force. You can see how that appeals to conservative religion myths of good and evil. In fact, the liberal religionists are the source of most of the ideas in this alliance, as Nietzsche pointed out about the 19th century British atheists–the forefathers of the organized atheists groups today.
thuja on February 19, 2009 at 6:50 AM
Funny. I guess I always tended to think of progressive Christians as folks who didn’t take their Bible very serious and simply found more in common with atheists over their brothers and sisters in the faith.
BTW, what is required and what is the need to “organize” atheists?
hawkdriver on February 19, 2009 at 7:03 AM
Funny. I guess I always tended to think of progressive Christians as folks who didn’t take their Bible very serious and simply found more in common with atheists over their brothers and sisters in the faith.
BTW, what is required and what is the need for organizing atheists?
hawkdriver on February 19, 2009 at 7:03 AM
Not a problem, I didn’t take it that way. Previous posts by yourself have made me aware of your ernest interest. Now, I need to bone up on a few things, because I usually form my own opinions, and am not up to speed with the views of others.
OldEnglish on February 19, 2009 at 7:03 AM
I’m not here to defend all religions. I am only defending Christianity as being authentic and established by God and Jesus Christ. Other religions will have to send their own representatives to defend them. If you want to read an intellectually rigorous defense of Christianity I would recommend “What’s so great about Christianity?” by Dinesh D Souza.
RadioFreeUSA on February 19, 2009 at 7:08 AM
Atheism, seduced by Socialism (itself activist), denies the individual to venerate the collective.
maverick muse on February 19, 2009 at 7:12 AM
in order to
maverick muse on February 19, 2009 at 7:13 AM
I would like to reply to this, if I may.
First, no tally can be given, due to the length of time involved. I seriously doubt that we have numerical data going back around two thousand years.
Second, and speaking for myself, when I say that Christians have been responsible for more wars, and probably deaths, I mean that most wars since the birth of Christianity have been waged by Christians. It does not matter whether said wars were fought on behalf of Christianity, as were the Crusades, but that the instigators were Christians, as were most people of Europe and the North.
In sum, Christianity may be considered as the religion of peace today, but not until recently.
OldEnglish on February 19, 2009 at 7:14 AM
I must start reading my memos.
OldEnglish on February 19, 2009 at 7:18 AM
But that “could” be changing…
It could very well be up to Christians / Conservatives and all freedom loving people in America to “fight” once again for our very rights as Christians, as Americans. The current radical left “invasion” into Socialisam and Liberalisam is threatening the Constitution, free speech and faith in America. Never in our history have the far left radicals, bent on the destruction of our way of life, held such power, moved so rapidly and aggresively to control every aspect of personal freedoms in America. Never in our history has America faced such a danger from within. It could be upto freedom loving Christians to wrest control back from the devil, back from the far left Socialists. Christians value freedoms, value personal responsibilities, value family over Government control. The danger is real, our freedom of speech, rights to keep and bear arms and freedom of religion are under direct assult.
Where will you stand?
Mark Garnett on February 19, 2009 at 7:27 AM
mark garnett, thanks for wake-up call. you are right, as usual.
kelley in virginia on February 19, 2009 at 7:42 AM
Remove the “Christian” tag, and I’m right there with you. One does not have to have a religion to desire the values stated.
OldEnglish on February 19, 2009 at 7:46 AM
You do realize there are more places that exist outside of the American bubble, right? You’re obviously not understanding that most Asians aren’t Christians, right? Asians have had numerous wars since the birth of Christ. Especially when Japan was trying to Imperialize the rest of Asia. Gavrilo Princip, the guy that killed Archduke Ferdinand, you know, the event that started WWI, wasn’t Christian. Hitler had his own little bastardized version of Christianity, so you can’t really rope WWII into that mix either. Any war that ever happens between Israel and [insert Islamic-run country here] doesn’t involve Christians either.
How about you learn what the f*** you’re talking about before you open your mouth? Damn moron.
leetpriest on February 19, 2009 at 8:07 AM
Logically (try to follow, I know logic isn’t your strong point), without a deity, you lack reasoning to have said values. You lack a reason to exist for that matter.
leetpriest on February 19, 2009 at 8:10 AM
Allah -Atheist Protesting….think about it. Why bother if this is it? Surely they have better things to do with their time, then pester everyone else? Atheist Protesting reminds me of the sandwich board guy, that sign reads “The End Of The World is Near Repent” both taking up way to much space on the public sidewalk.
Dr Evil on February 19, 2009 at 8:10 AM
Old English, et al.
Life is complicated, and it always has been. There is such a thing as a justified, righteous war. Case in point, WWII was the last conflict where there was a clearly defined evil for which Christians were justified to rise up and fight.
However, a righteous war is not the same thing as teaching violence. If you look at the teachings of Jesus, he said to love your enemies. My take on this is that by doing this you are able to show the love of God in far more profound ways than loving someone who already loves you. Read the scripture in Luke chapter 6 to see what I’m talking about.
Many confuse those who claim to do things in the name of Christianity, but who are not following the teachings of Christ, as representing the faith as a whole. There is also the confusion that occurs when folks do not understand that love does not mean you let others tread on you without stepping in and stopping it.
However, back to the point of the thread, the point that being made in the article is in fact a valid one.
When I was an atheist, I genuinely didn’t give a hoot what anyone else believed. I thought they were wrong to believe differently than I did, and would enjoy having arguments which no one ever wins, but at the end of the day I had no problem with someone choosing to believe anything, and I certainly wasn’t about to try to change the world’s mind on the matter.
That is the kind of atheist that apparently Harsayani is, respectful of others. He is however somewhat naive. The abrasive approach of Richard Dawkins is not new; Harsayani is just newly becoming aware of it. I find it interesting that NOW, as the world is coming apart at the seams, is the time for these things to be coming to full view of the world. Seems somewhat reminiscent of end times prophesies to me, but it could be indicative of something else.
Even Francis Crick came to the conclusion that DNA could not have evolved. His solution was what he called Directed Panspermia, you know…ALIENS did it.
Hmmm….maybe its time to do an extensive interdisciplinary literature search, something interesting could have risen to the surface.
Marine_Bio on February 19, 2009 at 8:24 AM
I DID say Christians, Conservatives and ALL Freedom Loving Peoples… I bet you fall into one of those…
:)
Mark Garnett on February 19, 2009 at 8:30 AM
The discussion was about Christian countries, and I did mention Europe and the North in my post. Events in the non-Christian part of the world are another topic.
Also, you seem hung up on events within the last century or so, whereas I mentioned the last two thousand years of Christianity.
Finally, the anarchist who assassinated Archduke Ferdinand “may” have been somewhat of a catalyst in events which were heading towards war in any case, but it was Christian Europe and Russia that set WW I in full motion. It was Christians “love thy neighbour” Christians who caused the deaths of so may during those awful four years.
OldEnglish on February 19, 2009 at 8:32 AM
Utter, superstitious drivel!
OldEnglish on February 19, 2009 at 8:34 AM
Hawkdriver, you need to meet some liberal religionists. Liberal religionists take their Bible or Torah quite seriously. They just interpret it in line with the secular facts we know about the Bible. The simple piety of some Reformed Jews–the liberal sect to which I belong–is not that different than what you can see at a speaking in tongues Pentecostal service in a trailer park. The difference in the groups is more intellectual. Reformed Jews reject Orthodox Jewish beliefs like the idea the Torah was given to Moses at Mt. Sinai, because the Orthodox beliefs are often just ridiculous. (The Torah–Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy–includes the stories about the Israelites wondering in the wilderness for forty years after Mt. Sinai and the death of Moses.)
The need to organize atheists is obvious. Some atheists have some political grievances about a Christian organization of society. Organized atheists may also feel the need to correct some of the outright lies of conservative religionists and even liberal religionists against them.
thuja on February 19, 2009 at 8:40 AM
To set the record straight, I am not advocating the premise that most wars were fought on behalf of Christianity, merely that Christians fought most of the wars in Europe and the North in the last two thousand years.
OldEnglish on February 19, 2009 at 8:41 AM
Your history revisionism so wrong, I don’t even know where to start.
If we just look at the last century, and consider Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin… all instituted purges in the MILLIONS and were anti-Christian to the extreme.
And many of the wars you try to pin on Christians fall into two “other” categories… political wars waged by manipulating the prevailing Christian beliefs, and wars of defense (such as the first Crusades).
How you can continue to mindlessly parrot such lies?
dominigan on February 19, 2009 at 8:42 AM
For the sake of argument, assume for a moment that there IS a God, and that God has imbued all of humanity with individual spirits/souls that are a spark, a gift from that God. We are also all imbued with an innate knowledge that this God created us, and this God’s very nature is imprinted on each and every soul this God created.
This, in part, would explain why different faiths at some level share very similar beliefs – and why non-believers as well *still* have an inborn sense of right vs wrong, of morality, etc. These things are ‘natural’ to humans where they are not natural to any other living creature.
Midas on February 19, 2009 at 8:44 AM
Preview, dammit!
so may = so many.
OldEnglish on February 19, 2009 at 8:47 AM
Nice backpedaling there.
Good Lord, you just tried to pin most wars on Christianity because Christians were involve… somehow.
With logic like that, why don’t you pin it on “people with two arms” or “people with hair” or “males”.
There’s a difference between wholesale slaughtering people to maintain power, and resisting a tyrannical power by assuming a defense.
But perhaps I’m making my own assumptions… that morals and ethics should apply to all people, regardless of whether they are Christian or not.
dominigan on February 19, 2009 at 8:48 AM
Ok, fair enough, but I’m not sure why you went that route in your discussion. By default of the parameters you set in your statement, you can make an a priori assumption about the religious demographic. To what end?
It is rather like the statement that more Americans died during the civil war than any other war.
Marine_Bio on February 19, 2009 at 8:50 AM
You lie like a cheap rug (I love that line). I answered you, when you first asked me that.
Anna on February 19, 2009 at 8:50 AM
Excellent editorial! I am going to make multiple copies and hand them to every pushy atheist I encounter.
If your religion doesn’t interfere with my freedoms, I don’t care what god or lack thereof you worship.
Disturb the Universe on February 19, 2009 at 8:54 AM
To repeat, my original and subsequent posts were about wars in Europe and the North. Nothing to do with Asia, or non-Christians.
Also, I did make the point that not all wars were fought on behalf of Christianity – merely that they were fought by Christians. The reason for any war, aggressive in nature, is immaterial.
As for the Crusades, you must be joking. The fact that several Popes called for war against the Muslims occupying the Holy Land, does not alter the fact that most of the troops went on those crusades because they were promised the reward of booty.
OldEnglish on February 19, 2009 at 8:55 AM
If the atheist is right, and there is no God – no Heaven, no Hell. . . then when we he and I die, nothing happnes.
If the Christians are right, I would not want to be the atheist.
Simplistic? sure. and it’s not that simple in fact…but it should make an atheist think a bit about being so sure of himself…herself…whatever.
PS…while you atheists wage war against Christians and creationists….Rome burns. Focus people…focus.
OwlorNothing on February 19, 2009 at 8:55 AM
Vishnu, Yaweh, Kwan Yin, Quetzecoatl, Hera, Ahura Mazda, Kali, Odin, Zeus, Tiki, Baal and Baphomet can fight this one out on their own without me.
Do not try to embrace the reflection of the moon on the waters.
profitsbeard on February 19, 2009 at 8:56 AM
Why did I go that route?
Basically because many of the posts on this site, when dealing with religion, seem to evade/gloss over the true history of Christianity in Europe. Apart from conversion via the sword in the early centuries, there have been many wars of expansion fought under Christian banners, if not for Christianity itself.
I guess my main point is that Christians are no different to anyone else on this planet, even though many posters would have it thought otherwise.
OldEnglish on February 19, 2009 at 9:03 AM
I did think about it, once, then realized that I won’t be aware either way because I’ll be extinct.
OldEnglish on February 19, 2009 at 9:06 AM
Judaism has no hell. Hell is a sleazy tactic of Christians and Muslims. I’d only want an atheist to convert to Judaism, because they want to and not out of fear.
thuja on February 19, 2009 at 9:07 AM
I was pointing to the last 100 yrs, because, as you stated, no accurate records exist 2-3 thousand years back.
The post that I responded to included the fallacious meme about religion…but took it one step farther. Usually, its presented as “Religion has killed more..” etc, but this time it was narrowed down to Christianity has killed more people etc, utter narrow mined, rote rhetoric out of Brainwashing 101, imo.
Whats the tally in the last 100 yrs? Rough guess.
Itchee Dryback on February 19, 2009 at 9:31 AM
Whys that? Are they somehow ‘victims’ ..oppressed and held down, or something?
Itchee Dryback on February 19, 2009 at 9:39 AM
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/516993/jewish/Im-scared-of-going-to-hell..htm
Dr Evil on February 19, 2009 at 9:42 AM
Ah, now the first part of that, as a Christian, I 100% agree with. By the teachings of the bible, sin has corrupted us all. The difference lies in who a Christian believes Jesus is, which would be the son of God, embodied in human flesh, who died on the cross as a blood offering to atone for the sins of all mankind. Otherwise, we’re the same.
But I do think that with your second sentiment, there is a very difficult piece for a Christian to explain to others, which is frequently misunderstood. Probably now as well, but I’ll give it a genuine attempt.
Because Christians are human, they make mistakes, but there is an underlying morality that causes conviction when things are not done in accordance with that morality. (Feeling guilty about it after the fact if you will) When trying to explain the morality that we try to live by, the imperfections in all of us are evident for the world to see. As such, when someone is speaking in generalities, the imperfections are what someone tends to see, not the overall truth.
It is kind of like the conclusion that can be drawn with the atheistic eugenics movement in the early 20th century and the logical outcome of a culture embracing a Darwinistic approach for their society is to improve upon that society by removing imperfections.
When this is phrased as the logical outcome of that movement being Hitler, this causes strong reactions, but does that mean that all atheists are little Hitlers? Obviously not, but by taking that focus it is attempting to detract from examining the validity of the analysis.
Marine_Bio on February 19, 2009 at 9:45 AM
I am aware of the great number of people killed in the last century or so – worldwide, but my post really referred to Christianity in Europe and surrounds over the last two thousand years. I am not concerned about the behaviour of Communists, non-Christian Asians etc during the last hundred years. The barbarism among those regions is well documented, but irrelevant to the discussion.
The reason that I used the term Christian is because I was referring to Christian countries. I take exception to the notion that Christians are any better, because of their particular beliefs, than anyone else on this planet who leads a moral existence.
OldEnglish on February 19, 2009 at 9:50 AM
Your reference to conscience is where I differ. I have no beef with anyone’s beliefs per se, except where said belief insists that a sense of guilt could not have existed before the advent of the Bible, and, now, only exists within those who accept its teachings. When Christians start talking as though they are “Special” people, they lose all credibility.
OldEnglish on February 19, 2009 at 9:58 AM
Threads like this simply point out the myriad ways in which Christianity has been misinterpreted and misapplied. The metaphorical Biblical sword has been brandished in a way that belies the real intention of the Bible’s great commission. Christians and atheists alike parse the Bible in a way that makes their case for them, but ignores the overall message. Too bad, really, that many Christians don’t even understand how to apply man’s depravity and God’s sovereignty to their own lives. It’s no wonder that atheists and non-believers haven’t a clue.
College Prof on February 19, 2009 at 10:07 AM
I despise morons who quote just a single sentence, and then ask the questioned answered just after the quoted sentence. Why don’t you learn to read, idiot?
thuja on February 19, 2009 at 10:08 AM
Assuming that there is such a thing as a god, you may have a point. Without such a thing, Atheists don’t need a clue – it’s a non-event.
OldEnglish on February 19, 2009 at 10:13 AM
I know it’s bad form to duck out of an ongoing discussion, but it’s nearly 2:30 AM in the great land of OZ, where it is beautiful one day, perfect the next. :)
Goodnight all.
OldEnglish on February 19, 2009 at 10:21 AM
All religions (and I suppose the path of an atheist) lead to the same place. When the others get there, they’ll find the Jews and Christians with the Angels of the Lord, armed and occupying the position.
Archie Noble on February 19, 2009 at 10:55 AM
After reading my comment, which part of yours did you think I would find compelling?
hawkdriver on February 19, 2009 at 11:20 AM
You atheists seem so angry..is something missing in your life?
Look..if someone makes simplistic paranoia based statements like “atheists need to organize, and a question is asked as to why. I don’t think that matches your accusation of not understanding the rest of the post which you claim answers the question. It doesn’t..you’re simply restating the same claim using different words.
So I’ll ask again, What is the basis of this feeling of need? Do you feel a victim of something? Are your rights being stripped?.. are you being discriminated against? What?
Itchee Dryback on February 19, 2009 at 11:21 AM
I know it’s difficult, but do try to understand that we really believe that this stuff is real. That means hell too.
How can it be a sleazy tactic to warn people of danger you honestly think is real and imminent?
Yet one more person incapable of seeing the world from another’s perspective. It’s a common human illness, but it really does make debate difficult if not impossible.
TheUnrepentantGeek on February 19, 2009 at 11:21 AM
Obviously, Athesim is not the religion of peace.
hawkdriver on February 19, 2009 at 11:22 AM
I suspect a lot of posters here find much in the Bible/Tora/Koran to fear because of their lifestyles or past.
hawkdriver on February 19, 2009 at 11:24 AM
“Torah” sorry my Jewish Brothers and Sisiters.
hawkdriver on February 19, 2009 at 11:25 AM
Bigot
hawkdriver on February 19, 2009 at 11:28 AM
Slightly off topic, so I apologize for that, but this is tangentally related to the atheism/faith discussion.
Unless you’re willing to follow evidence to its logical conclusion, you will be confused. When data does not fit the theory, it usually means a bad theory.
Marine_Bio on February 19, 2009 at 11:38 AM
A most asinine statement. Christians are responsible for founding this country and as a country we have saved more lives and fought for more freedom than any nation that has ever existed.
And on the contrary, the most heinous of bloodletting has come at the hands of the rejecters of God…
Hitler
Pol Pot
Mao
Stalin
Robespierre
What else, what ideology, what religion, what thing, can change the heart of true evil in a man but Jesus Christ?
http://www.purposedriven.com/article.do?method=articlePage&contentId=112719
none other…
MechEng5by5 on February 19, 2009 at 12:14 PM
Man Is In A Lost Condition (Death, Sorrow, Despair, Hopelessness, Darkness). Is There A Way To End This State? The Unbeliever Says No! “Live And Let Die” “No Regrets” “How Could An All-Powerful GOD Let This Existence Be?” “Do What Makes You Happy” “No Consequences, The Loose Prosper, And The Ethical Parish” “Where Is Reason?” “Don’t Speak Of Liberty With Chains In Your Hands” Et Al… If You Do Not Agree That Existence Falls Woefully Short Of “Peace”, You Are Void Of Truth. Is Existence Permanently Doomed To Darkness? A Believer Looks For Light To Shine In This Darkness. He Does Not Give Up, (After All, Isn’t It An Honourable, Worthwhile Endeavour To Seek Peace?) Yea, Even A Mandatory Quest For Those Who Call Themselves “Righteous And Virtuous”. Considering The State Of His Fellow Being, The Worthy Will Seek “Peace”, In Not Doing So, You Declare Yourself Unconcerned Or That It Is Unobtainable And Foolish To Seek. Ahh… To Save That Which Is Lost..The Hope Of The Saints. The Stone Which The Builders Reject, Has Become The Chief Cornerstone
GD on February 19, 2009 at 12:15 PM
Well, it isn’t the tempo of a Haiku. It meters like Carl Sandburg but it would be a little too wordy for him…
I give up.
hawkdriver on February 19, 2009 at 12:20 PM
Well, typically it’s used not to glean lessons but to find “proof” for what you think you already know. I will bet you haven’t learned anything positive from the Bible.
By learning from the Bible I mean a very specific process of
1. not knowing something
2. learning it for the first time from the source
3. adopting it based on nothing else but respect for this source
What good did you learn from the Bible?
radiofreevillage on February 19, 2009 at 12:20 PM
The true meaning of the word prodigal.
hawkdriver on February 19, 2009 at 12:28 PM
I Suppose Man Finds Many Records Of Thought In His Time, Which Ones He Adheres To Declare His Wisdom Or Folly.. By Grace Are You Saved…The Fall Of Self-Righteousness Is Grace
GD on February 19, 2009 at 12:40 PM
Any other rule that man tries impose on man is arbitrary. Where shall we derive our morality?
hawkdriver on February 19, 2009 at 12:52 PM
A Statement Worth Considering.. “Blessed Are Those Who Make Peace, For They Shall Be Called The Children Of GOD”
GD on February 19, 2009 at 1:08 PM
Another statement worth considering: “And you shall hear of wars and rumours of wars. See that ye be not troubled. For these things must come to pass.”
“Peace can be attained and maintained through superior firepower.”
hawkdriver on February 19, 2009 at 1:20 PM
Under the circumstance of all things being equal, yes.
Unfortunately, all things are not equal.
Marine_Bio on February 19, 2009 at 1:24 PM
There is no equality in superior firepower…
By design.
hawkdriver on February 19, 2009 at 1:42 PM
Meh. True but that’s not what I meant. In the context of the first part of your quote, “And you shall hear of wars and rumours of wars. See that ye be not troubled. For these things must come to pass.”, is the equality I was refering to.
There is no evidence of the US being a world power in the end times, unless it is in the context of the lions of tarsish.
In a contemporary context though, there is little reason to believe that our superiority will continue. As I see it, with the over reaching that is currently going on, we as a nation are in a very precarious position.
Superior firepower matters little, if you’re self imploding as a nation.
:)
Marine_Bio on February 19, 2009 at 1:57 PM
Pascal’s Wager has been thoroughly discredited.
maleman on February 19, 2009 at 2:01 PM
9-11 was over reaching on and not on our part.
Superior firepower is only ever a bad thing if you’re receiving it.
hawkdriver on February 19, 2009 at 2:11 PM
Pascal’s wager is not an argument for or against. It is the logical conclusion of the reality of these two situations.
Atheist is correct, christians wrong, net effect of living life by biblical teachings—-ZERO.
Christian is correct, atheists wrong, net effect of living life for self and not christ—Eternal Damnation.
Now, that being said, the link you provided to wikipedia is somewhat intersting in the sense that it comes back to Richard Dawkins. The thing that I find the most intriguing about Dawkins is his maniacal hatred of the God of the old testament. Why does his hatred focus squarely on the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob and not at the god of Islam? Given the fact that there are more muslims in the UK than there are Christians, it almost seems like Dawkins feels that he has an easier target in the Christians.
As a side note, they are also less likely to cut his head off, so there is that aspect too.
Marine_Bio on February 19, 2009 at 2:16 PM
“There are more muslims in the U.K than christian” , where the f did u get u moron
Equanim1ty found on February 19, 2009 at 2:43 PM
I suggest you just skip over these posts…you don’t really want an answer.
right2bright on February 19, 2009 at 2:45 PM
And the Hebrew word of “make” was an action word…you have to take action to make peace…that may mean destroying evil, which God never had a problem with.
right2bright on February 19, 2009 at 2:47 PM
I Perceive That When Blindness Leaves Man, And He Sees The Obvious (By Grace), He Will Reason The End Times Were Clearly Foretold And Easily Distinguishable. (And No Doubt, It Will Unfold As Ordained). The Acts Of Man Are In Order, And Proceeding Post-Haste, In His Ignorance And Unbelief He Stumbles On, Trusting In His Own Understanding. (By Grace Are The Vessels Of GOD Chosen), These Are The Children He Has Called To Make “Peace”. Deny Not The Obvious, Lest You Be Deceived. “If Any Man Lack Wisdom, Let Him Ask Of GOD Who Gives To All Men Liberally And Upbraideth Not”
GD on February 19, 2009 at 3:19 PM
The fact that philosophers and thinkers have debates about it means that it has been “totally discredited”?. Not even to wikipedia link that you provide asserts that. I am not sure you understand what the wager is about.
neuquenguy on February 19, 2009 at 4:15 PM
So your point is that in predominantly Christian lands, most wars involved Christians?
So what?
Presumption: one or more atheists have either committed a crime or been victimized by a crime.
Conclusion: All, every, 100% of crimes involving atheists have involved atheists.
malclave on February 19, 2009 at 4:31 PM
Great quote, Allahpundit.
Excellent point.
Aronne on February 19, 2009 at 5:07 PM
Elitist! :)
OldEnglish on February 19, 2009 at 6:27 PM
The “so what” is that Christians seem to have this “special status” thing, merely because a book tells them so. I suppose that Scientologists are told much the same thing.
In truth, Christianity has no claim on being different to any other humans in their behaviour through the ages. They have no rational claim on morality, ethics, standards etc, beyond that which can be claimed by anyone who achieves an improvement over generations. As did the writers of the Bible.
OldEnglish on February 19, 2009 at 6:44 PM
Hey if there is no god..
And thats your belief fine..
then try to go to the muslim controlled areas
in any western country and explain your views to them..
Please?
i have a funny feeling all of these so called brave atheists wouldnt dare ..
For they like their heads in their current location
Attached..
jcila on February 19, 2009 at 7:36 PM
YOu wont see modern christians threatening to behead you..
No only insecure groups do this..
so stop blaming christians when its proven statistically that since 1990 almost 15000 terrorist attacks world wide were reported and out of those
99.3% were committed by followers of the religion of pieces
.03% were committed by hindus
.02% were comitted by christians
.01% were comitted by a jew
.01% were comitted by unknow
jcila on February 19, 2009 at 7:39 PM
Does this make sense to anyone?
It is always encouraging when an someone take the time to incoherently write a statement calling you a moron.
Apparently he doesn’t know how to google to see if I might have read something he hasn’t.
Marine_Bio on February 19, 2009 at 8:53 PM
All quite irrelevant. There are places in my own city into which I would not venture – day or night. Muslims are a lost cause, in that there is no chance of ever modifying their stance. Christians, on the other hand, say that they are prepared to be tolerant, while making statements of faith which are presented as fact, and insisting upon including all in that statement, without so much as a by your leave.
Christians question Darwin, for example, by nit-picking bits of the theory that do not, yet, have a solution, in order to dispute the theory. Whereas, these same people make statements regarding their faith as absolute truth – without a shred of evidence with which to back it up, and then calmly state that all people are governed by this mantra – no buts.
OldEnglish on February 19, 2009 at 8:57 PM
LOve ya bro, but you lost cool point on the reply.
hawkdriver on February 19, 2009 at 9:10 PM
Holy crap! This thread is STILL going?
darii on February 19, 2009 at 10:07 PM
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